Man Enough Episode 1 - Why Don't Men Talk

[Music] [Music] this is like the one point of connection is it weird being the coolest guy anytime you walk into a room because everybody just wants tickets to Hamilton it just makes you feel awkward hanging out with you what you've been dating is there meat in this no no this is for you guys I'm going for the vegan options which is not very masculine speaking so I have a question so the show is called man enough man what does that mean you [Laughter] be a man what does it mean being present I know for me at least whenever am i talking to like my dad or a new man I that I look up to you know when they're actually listening and they're actually talking to you is when I feel that's what I'm asking I felt like you weren't man enough me met Bruce Lee yeah oh yeah I got my ass whooped when I was in school was a kid that dance oh yeah I went to six different schools in one year because I would get beaten up I get fights but yeah so I I definitely grew up feeling I think masculine would be the opposite of how I felt then dancing how that sort of stereotype of being you know sort of okay feminine or whatever might be and but strangely enough when I'm dancing when I feel the most masculine I'm not thinking about this I'm not thinking about what's happening I'm a thing that was going to happen I'm forced into the present that's why I feel the most like sort of connected to myself and when I flip the next to myself when I feel the most I guess I'm asking you so what why are we talking about masculinity as a positive thing we have think it's a negative thing I don't think it's a thing because like you just said like it's it's only when I dance when I feel mastered this comes from the idea is like being masculine as good and if not masculine right but that's Pat is not bad but but but that's defined what is messy I mean what is it yeah well you're different right because I come from a place in the Middle East where people divide their masculinity with how their women behave right if their women are not dressed right over there not following our orders the whole idea with how the masculinity the honor of the tribe or the family or the village control is only defined by how the women make their choices so so so is this is this no so exactly I think I think that's I think it's a primitive sort of like idea of a masculine ideas right if there's all the spine but no heart but and why are we using it as a defining descriptor yeah I know I think you're what you're saying I'm asking it has been something like this when we're saying the definition of masculine II should be something much more you know I don't so if we're talking about needing to redefine it what do you think the unwritten rules of masculinity are today like what are the things that we're all subconsciously following that have been have written for us that we never had a choice for yeah so I remember a little while ago I was at a candle store where talking I was talking with the person they are about like oh this one's more masculine or like because it's wooded what you were buying a candle I can't handle that for real you were talking about the unwritten rules of masculinity we were talking about why why do we assign it that like what is why does would masculine like what does it mean so I think in some ways these things they're useful I think to be able to have a way into what we all sort of have a common reference for but at the end of the day I think the ideal would be why do we have to define it at all what are the quality would tough rigid hard to break stoic like a man is supposed to be mmm totally but why are we supposed to be that way it's it's the question of why was that established yeah and what is the cost for those but I like floral stuff smell a flower stuff right it can cross they can cross each other whether needs to be a bass right if we're gonna talk like sort of basic human behavior you start with the object and then the object is given a gender once we have it categorized then we can break the box but it had to be given that some sort of structure at some point that we just continue to perpetuate it's so good to sit down with you yeah good - why do you think men don't communicate why don't we talk to each other well first thing is is I'm not so sure we don't talk to each other I think we talk plenty but we don't talk particularly authentically we talk in a way to conceal rather than to reveal we talk in a way to keep people from finding out what's inside of us whether it be when I was seven or eight or when I was 13 or when I saw this or when I watched it in a movie at some point I decided that I couldn't ask for directions or it wasn't safe yeah forget to ask my friend to have coffee with me and talk about feelings we talked about what I'm struggling with where does that start I think there's a model about being a real man in America and I think sometimes that model is at more sort of stoic hard tough etc my friend Joe ermine who used to be a professional football player says that he remembers his father just saying to him be a man man up toughen up don't be a girl think about all the times you heard that when you were little yeah right man so we learned very early that anything that is associated with femininity is not only dangerous but could be devastating to our identities as men all comes down to it there was no feminine to be no masculinity basically yeah actually I never really say masculine unless I'm saying I also say traditionally masculine cuz to me that like I want to be commenting on it I actually don't really like to assign anything as masculine or feminine for me now I think what what is masculine what makes someone a man is if they identify as a man right it's not even the body that you come in right I think that's what we're talking about earlier how like the the label of masculinity you know or the label of you know the feminine energy I think we both have we all have the same we all have feminine energy and masculine energy all of us if we're just being authentic and true to that energy of what that is that's when we feel the most masculine I'm just my I mean I am Who I am that is masculine so why do we think though the feminine like we attribute the feminine to being like less then I want to yeah I want to hop on that on that on that answer because from the perspective of not just being a man but also being a gay man and homophobia my experience has been that growing up in the projects of Brooklyn in East New York Brooklyn and and where joy was not something you were allowed to express the dynamic was so very masculine I mean I'm going to say that in that way right like because it was so aggressive and again that's just like falling in line with how we're told to define masculinity it was already being defined to me that masculine was just sort of above feminine period in the neighborhood as it is add to the fact that I knew from kindergarten that I was gay I had a boyfriend in kindergarten his name was Jacob we shared milk at lunch I was very clear about my sexuality my entire life but it was we were separated we were not allowed to sit anywhere near each other we were not allowed to play at playtime we were divided constantly do you think they note it and they just see that absolutely I think the teachers absolutely picked up on how and I bring all that up to say that it was it was instilled early that the things I was feeling and I was identifying with were more feminine by definition of the rules that I was growing up in and that that was not okay that you you should not be behaving this way Javier you should not be feeling this way because that's feminine and you you are you are a man you're a boy and and so I think we have like an an age-old conversation there about how we view our women how we view femininity where that comes from and that that's a big root of of how we then define ourselves as men the programming that you're gonna have the rest of your life happens 0 to 7 hmm so what are we telling kids from 0 to 7 I mean from birth it's your boy you get blue your girl you get pink it's so deeply ingrained in our society a girl who likes sports what do we call her tomboy boy who likes Easy Bake Ovens what do we call a little [ __ ] actually never liked those damn Easy Bake Ovens hmm right but I say I say that only because I don't want it to be thought that like that's a thing you can actually be gay and not like the girls toys and vice versa the elephant in the room if you will about some of so much of men's emotional expressiveness is homophobia that fear that you know somehow expressing yourself vulnerability all of those ideas that we associate actually with gay men yeah so you know you think like to be emotionally disclosing to talk about what you're really feeling well doesn't that sound kind of gay I think men often feel bad now I think I think for most guys what happens around second grade you look at kindergarteners you look at nursery school kids mmm they are happily playing together no problems at all they don't recognize race they don't recognize gender but some around second grade I remember girls got cooties and they were to be stayed away from and suddenly we were separate suddenly we were with boys playing over here and girls playing over there nowadays you know girls can walk over and play soccer with the boys or baseball with the boys but heaven helped that little boy who wants to go over and play with the girls now who taught us that I think we know it's other boys it's other guys who start policing our masculinity really early on and it carries wasted in here is it in us then is that what does know what we social scientists know is that that there is no trait at all that's only for males and no females or only for females and no males what there are are these continua right and some of us fall anywhere along those paths we're pushed to those margins as if they were natural I think I think with kids or teenagers or young boys it's the fact that they're they're young they're male and they're told not to express themselves so if they're telling their other male friend that they love them that's a no that's the message is you don't do that men in our society right so the only qualification you can put that under is gay hmm I don't actually don't think it has anything to do with gay sex I think it's like I can't be emotional you know I can't tell my good friend who I would jump in front of a bullet for that I love mm-hmm you know if you look at him like what the the American dream is built in the idea of this rugged individualism right that's what we're that's what we're sold is this message that like it's almost better if you do it by yourself well we're Americans so you know I mean even America in the world the image is that I think that's the whole cell right and to go back to your question it's in our media it's in you know I think back to growing up in the 80s and and I was I was thinking about the the cigarette ads in the 80s of the solo guy nature by himself or maybe he's in a social situation there's tons of people around him but he's the solo guy who has to be alone really cool dark and smart real man you know and that was the strong message of masculinity that gets sent out you were a rapper what was that my experience with hip-hop and masculinity I mean I don't think there's anything more hyper masculine than hip-hop I mean you got guys who are doing everything that they can to posture themselves houses that they have the money that they have women multiple women clothes cars and then they're bragging on top of that about it growing up I wasn't allowed to listen to hip-hop I guess because of the negative images fast forward 15 years I get into what hip-hop is at its core which is the voice for the voiceless its MCS speaking about issues from socio economics and politics and religion questioning starting a conversation but there's always a level of masculinity and I'm better than you mm-hmm with all hip-hop that I found like my first rap name was the Prince DA was Richie Rich because so much info he's getting one verse I don't remember listen to the metaphors the language we use to describe the kind of men we want to be first I mean just American history autonomous independent not needing anybody our images of masculinity have been for so long the man who leaves the city leaves the woman behind and rides off alone on that horse into the sunset yeah this is what we grew up with this has been constantly fed to us we want to be hard we want to be impervious nothing should ever affect us nothing should ever get in that is not human know so I think in generationally we are now at a point where we've realized that something that we invented in the mostly in the 20th century is actually doesn't work for us so while I have the most manly plate how do you think we define masculinity in America like what does it mean to be a man a man up to be man enough emotion is such a big part of my upbringing and I think it's it's about even though you may want to react to a situation as a man you are asked and I think I think it goes both ways masculine feminine but as a man you were asked to you're the one who's calm cool collected you're in charge and nothing rattles you and you don't cry laughs yeah I mean I think a number of things I mean dr. Michael Kimmel put something really well you said you know what is what do you think of as a real man I think of a stoic strong not sharing dominant person right he always gets you know women and however he does it and whatever and then what is a good man he's honest he has integrity he fights for justice for equality and that all of us given the fact that we live in an imperfect society will be asked to and will have to be real men at the expense of being good men and that is our integrity right we want to hold up these ideals of of who we really want to be but the society we lives in in order to operate in order to be employed we have to we can't tell all the truth we want to tell and that is painful and I think finding the ways to do that the best that we can is essential for me to feel like I'm living my authentic and true self what did you learn about being a man from grandpa from your dad I learned that you know you know that everything is about taking care of a family is my job to take care of the family and make sure everything was good for them so no matter what no matter what the circumstances my dad was always there and he was always strong and I we got you know we got through everything um you know make excuses you don't talk about your problems you that was the thing you don't talk about your problems you don't share your problems you just deal with your problems you know growing up with you know Clint Eastwood and John Wayne and you know these are images that this is what a man was you know and so whatever we got at home and then what we got culturally all that sticks with you so you you go around thinking you you know you're supposed to be like that that's nothing so you're constantly acting I know everyone kind of looks at me in my circle and they think I'm so put together I'm like I don't have problems but then what happened recently is when I opened up to some of my closest guy friends they were just like everything it was everything like change they were like wait but you have problems during her and I'm like of course I'm going through problems but I realized that I don't actually open up enough to my boys I don't and I have no idea where that comes from yeah but I know I want I like it's that posture of like no I'm good I got it all together I got my wife I got my kid so I've been kind of on this journey like that's why we're here I'm on this journey to figure out what the hell does it mean to be a man I have no idea what it means to be a man and part of being a man is opening up but yeah I'm having my own hard time opening up so I took four of my best friends to Mexico and my like real intention was okay I want to be vulnerable on this trip I had to like set it up go leave the country sit on a beach where there was no technology and then go all right guys I'm struggling with this it would have been much cheaper if you just went to a therapist but I have a therapist but no but no but I think about it I pay I pay this person this person isn't in my closest circle right right so like as an example my dad is one of my best friends and he expresses his love he's like the most loving man ever but when was the last time you'd like dropped in and went like like let's get really vulnerable together at this game play scary it's a scary place to go I start going getting born with my dad and I was like you came from a family that showed their emotions you guys always showed always but I think there's a difference between showing emotions and being vulnerable I mean we're Italian so we show emotions but I think being vulnerable is when you share a part of yourself that you conceal yeah that's opening up you know I never had these conversations with my dad I I dream about it so here we are handling them now you see what I do I create experiences forced me to be vulnerable and the people around me that's why I like I brought up hey let's start going to the driving range because I like to have this desire to get to know you in a totally different way not in the like you're my dad everything's great you provided for me but isn't it like who is my dad really cause I think we're figuring out who you are then I can figure out who I am and then I can start to break the cycle of all these little things that I do that I know you know I'm not really me it's like the learned behavior I've seen myself do things with Emily that you didn't mom just really not bad things just making sure everything's fine not talking about finances like the stereotypical machismo I got things all figured out I catch myself doing yeah and that's not good it's not good at all and and the lessons that we learned is that you have a very valuable partner and that you can't hold those things to yourself you gotta share you've got to share them I really think socially it just comes down to power and it's something I sort of question all the time and I struggle with to understand it's empowering for women to express themselves to amongst each other and it's giving away our power as men to express ourselves amongst other men and and why that difference because it's not just about how we view femininity we as men witness women do that and see how it bonds them together and see how it brings them together and see the strength it builds amongst them but yet we still resist it because I have no idea why I just I know I practice it myself I know that there are situations where I probably should express myself and don't because it's another man and and because because of all the power things I have in my head but yet on a one-on-one situation I'll find myself inhibiting what I say I feel the same thing it's almost easier like right now I think it's easier because there's six of us than it is if it was just you and me I don't know if you guys feel this but if it's just me and another guy there are times when I have a hard time even just looking someone else in the eye mmm yep which is so weird because over time I feel like my my superpower my strength is the fact that I'm willing to share but then you look everywhere else except in the soul of the other man but yet we can look at a woman all day long it's true and that has nothing to do with sexuality does it become that though is the same way is it does it become that and that's why you feel uncomfortable I only look at people like that intimate with like that I've even noticed that with my dad recently hmm have we ever looked at each other for hmm 15 seconds straight you know maybe because opening up will provide yet another problem we don't want to deal with because like maybe your dad does one of I could I can't like handle this because men are naturally in their head they're fixers we fix this we fix this a problem I'll fix it I don't want to deal with like some emotional baggage that I cannot provide an answer and you're absolutely right that's actually I'm always thinking like okay how am I gonna help how am I gonna provide an answer how many provide a solution can we provide the answer mm-hmm like maybe that's the source of it like as them as the mayor most women is shared right they're not expecting to have answers of each one but as men are busted now you just like throw this home and what should I do with this what should I do with your problem man I mean like because we're all struggling when we watch women they don't really provide answers as much as like what what should I do with this now why are women so much better at this than men we men fear that the kind of emotional disclosure that we're talking about that women do that with no cost to their femininity right to have these long soulful conversations to talk with you know the FT to have to do this so if women's conversations very often are kind of mutual support and therapy yeah whereas we doing exactly what we're doing right now looking at each other's faces as we're talking to each other that alone is already like suspect around our masculinity I think we sometimes mystify friendship or emotional relationships into these kind of soulful heart-to-heart kinds of talks that we're supposed to have and I think we're scared of that but there's another part of friendship or intimate relationships in general and that is women do the business of friendship you and Emily for example who writes the Christmas cards who writes the annual Christmas letter that you send out to everybody who remembers all of the friends kids birthdays we raise women to pay attention to those sorts of things and but more than that we raise men to expect women to pay attention to things like that the big story about why men don't talk to each other it's because we're afraid of what people will see we're afraid that they'll see that we're not as tough strong powerful you know in control as where we think we're supposed to be we inherited an idea of masculinity that's all about power control you know self control being autonomous being independent so basically we're supposed to be these like little automatons these robots and if I actually open up to you you will see that oh my god he's not as in control as I thought he's not as powerful and as strong and as I thought he was so just the idea of talking of really talking is scary so what we do is we talk in a frenzy so that you don't have that conversation it's so easy just think about it you know how about them Dodgers right what do you think that you know what's gonna happen with the Rams you score 40 points I know you're right like so let's talk about what we don't feel let's talk so that we don't reveal and that's a way that men talk to each other do you guys have men that you can actually talk to or is that still a struggle for you guys I have them in my life no I got nothing I got none no I don't really have any anybody to to talk to or go to I can't say you know ya know Wow appreciate it and I would hate not a few drinks not be out about and I'm like hey man we won't be my friend why we have such a hard time talking to each other why can't we be vulnerable with each other if anybody knew what I really felt the world would explode close just off for a long time because I didn't think that you were manly like masks you

Channel: Wayfarer Studios

Views: 357,007

Keywords: #metoo, masculinity, men, Justin Baldoni, Prince Ea, Derek Hough, Javier Munoz, Bassem Youssef, Matt McGorry, Wayfarer, entertainment

Id: dVsbYas4tVo

Length: 27min 43sec (1663 seconds)

Published: Fri Jul 13 2018