Maajid Nawaz, Mehdi Hassan and Mo Ansar lock horns on BBC Newsnight

well a number of Muslim commentators declined to take part in this debate as they didn't want to share a platform with Marino as the author of that piece who joins me now along with the political director of The Huffington Post UK Mehdi Hassan and the Muslim community activist mote answer you're not going to sit there and say that you didn't expect people to be offended when you tweeted that cartoon well I think the point I was making was that I wasn't offended Jeremy now that's on my personal Twitter timeline I think that's a very fair point to make but you knew people would be offended when it went out there I think some people would be offended I can't speak for the 2.7 million Muslims that are in the UK nor can I speak for the 1.5 billion Muslims across the world the petition that was set up only gained 1% of this country's Muslims are signatures so I think it's fair to say that actually most Pitts most Muslims weren't bothered by you knew what you did was offensive to some many people some some people yes 1% of this country's 1% of this countries Muslims signed a petition asking for my deselection in hampstead and kill them and there are 1.5 billion Muslims in the world that petition was sent out across the world and only gain 20 thousand signatures so I've got to say that actually it's not a majority some Muslims were offended but also has a Muslim I have the right to say I wasn't offended but actually what are they offended by they were offended by my lack of offense but you knew people will be offended by it some people yes yeah no and so what could you possibly find to be upset about in that cartoon I don't know I didn't find it particularly offensive I think the idea that people found margins lack of offense offensive I think is absurd I think it's probably absurd the fact is margin has been for many years somebody who the government has used as a community leader and as somebody who speaks on behalf and understand Muslim communities and the important thing is this though that although I didn't find it particularly offensive they were always going to be lots of people who were this is a very interesting distinction you're making you're saying you didn't find the cartoon offensive particularly no not really but you found the identity of the tweeter offensive no I I found the idea that a potential parliamentary candidate would take steps which he knew either knowingly or recklessly was going to offend lots of people and took that risk on purpose to offend those people shows a grave lack of judgment and we hold our parliamentary County suitcase Isis in reverse he said it didn't offend him but linking to a website which depicts prophets in bed together what there were no sorry there was no link to my life I think people's no need to make that distinct to any website let's be very clear what I was attempting to do was simply speak up on principle for the minorities within the minorities ie those that we saw in this film who feel they cannot speak because they are silenced by voices that claim to speak in the name for that authenticity and tradition and say you're not allowed to express a divergent opinion it's very odd to attack community leaders who I don't actually know too many community leaders only people who work in their sphere of expertise but to Pipe paint yourself in exactly the guys and we return no I don't represent you sort of speaking for those I know I'm not I'm saying I'm trying to speak in represent the Liberal Democrats I in Camden were they invited me of course because I've been elected by them so as a liberal Democrat parliamentary candidate yeah you knew that tweeting things that might be seen is richer to sneer because you know what speaking out against racism offense on people madly speaking out against homophobia so it's really tweeting a kite so to say look I'm depending how the cartoon is a focus of change against racism is it offensive to be able to eff off on your Twitter timeline now don't you think you've done that - is it offense you're not standing for Parliament is offensive to you that I tweeted that cartoon is it offensive to me yes is it i I do find offensive I didn't sign the petition it's interesting you find the conf you offensive my phone is cartridges of us events on offense but you know star me to me to be honest imagine I didn't I session and I didn't speak out on that issue please it's getting so offensive about that Majid let me speak I'm asking about a six-minute film can I speak for a second yeah yeah I'd already care about the cartoons the cartoons we attention-seeking being provocative gratuitous whatever you want please it's my problem uh dude can I finish a point my problem much it is that as Moe pointed out and as a lot of journalists don't point out you have a long history of upsetting people in the Muslim community in a gratuitous manner that is the real issue that a lot of people don't recognize about the cartoon oh that I find offensive on the cartoon that in Islam you don't normally depict the Prophet when you do to pit the Prophet you die debate them in bed with another prophet exactly no you did a series of cognitive like we got him from a series that the viewers saw of course what was offensive about as part of a wider Co so if you tweak one cartoons from lt's anything in the same boat that is a same bed i know that what in what Sona says that you don't object the cartoon so much as you have just identity the tweeter no hold on let me be very clear I do the joke - the cartoon you know I have a right to be offended just as much as a right to be offensive he has every right to tweak that cartoon I defend his right to do it I think violent threats etc outrageous the issue here is it wasn't aan other Lib Dem PPC tweeting the cartoon that is true I do have a problem with it was it written about the cops because we saw on our screen tonight it's the only one I tweeted because that's because that was one part of a series of columns you want to tweet work when I'm on defense if I drink one page from a book it doesn't mean I don't represent the rest of the book come on MAGIX it does come on magic you know perfectly well do you I do not every some of you everyone you ever quote what do you believe in every single of everyone you ever quite not here to debate the cartoon I just individual murder I don't care about the cup you clearly do okay I do fund our fancy but I didn't sign the petition I might bring while I think it was a mistake for people to go off to you over the cartoons I think they should have gone off to you because your organization for the past six years has demonized and tried to discredit mainstream Muslim organizations have people like the Muslim Casa Britain let's ask YouTube then we are finished classroom is given a very long film here he's in which he talks about community there's a very easy to point he made about community Lea's that not really he said that they don't speak on my for Muslims I agree with him no one community leader ever met as plainly speak on well form of you think I've got a right to sweet the cars you know Annie Oakley the film what's the debate I agree with you focus it's not a mother mug it's a series of straw men for you to come along and say that you're this great dissenter and reformer speaking out against the see that you did in the film and the reason news that invited you on here is to give that in Britain there are people with actual grassroots support in the brush one's going to who are fighting for gender rights who are fighting against extremism who are fighting to have debates fight with you Majid sadly with great respect very intelligent guy very optically doesn't speak for them it has zero credibility in Muslim community is loathed by many Muslims because he goes around demonizing mainstream Muslim organizations as supporters of al Qaeda he goes around taking guns money and parroting the government line on extremism he goes around promoting areas of media all right that's how I wouldn't bring his MO and so who's been very quiet II think you are one of these community leaders on I don't know am i I've never professed to be a community leader I've never bought a community I've never sold a community there I won't paranoid gallery but the point is I never said I'm at a point of community Marja than his little group of sycophants they like painting people in black and white margins always had an extremist mentality and he's never moved away from that and I think the people of Britain when it comes election time will be very concerned about looking towards somebody who says I am the gatekeeper on what is acceptable Islam in this country and I'm the one who defines it and yeah and you are no not at all I've never said I am and I'm not standing for Parliament however somebody who's been rejected by only by every mainstream Muslim civil society organisation and has no critically summarized and issues threats and harassment quite into other people summarizes I think people will neither of you have you want to make yourself a marks priest free speech Margaret having had a six-minute film you want to make yourself a Majesty neither of men you're not neither of you have a problem with my tweeting the cartoon and neither do you do I love it yeah okay don't believe it okay so if you agree that I have the right tooth of cool yep and no a little human and neither of you have a problem with the film I do have many problems for my generalization about a little candy idea should you be offending lies Wayne Isis as a political candidate should you be potentially offending large particles may be playing the man and not the ball because what this film was a sow that feels the idea this is films about the idea I don't sit here to claim as magic the world I didn't vote it on maybe you can I don't sit here claiming I'm speaking on behalf of anyone my point is individuals you just made all right Jules have a lot to speak on their own all right you don't they're plenty of people at Riley sitting why is that we don't see a broader range of Muslim spokesman well Jeremy let me answer that question go on let's talk about the role of the media tonight you have a Muslim debate with three male Muslim panelists where is the woman whereas the Muslim woman there was a Muslim woman panelist your producers dropped her before the show began so your viewers at home think well there are no women who can speak within the British Muslim community as sara khan rightly said in that film there are women who've been active within this opportunity for centuries where are they tonight this is news night's discussion the media has to take responsibility for who they choose to speak on bed there were two women in that post yesterday one of them was an excellent leader on where the woman was drawn I think that was a mistake was a great dance made deserve I think that was a mistake I was a big volume is about place time and I would have is very happy to see a more diverse cross-section you ask a really important question yes absolutely now you asked a very important question which is in the media because someone goes hey labor a mainstream a matte for a mainstream media one second a mainstream media commentator attacked me this weekend on Twitter because he believed me to have homophobic views without actually checking that I've been standing for for gay rights and welcoming the transgender community for over 15 years now I did had he just seen my profile picture and he said well what I complained about it he that insulted me you can't go away no one insults sorry you can't and then said well you'll never cover my show again now if that's how we use and abuse the Muslim voice in this country we've got just about so just imagine main question who speaks for Muslims Muslims speak for Muslims but I wish don't listen I understand that all right rather than picking people speak on their belt thank you all very much thanks [Music]

Channel: BBC Newsnight

Views: 3,559,723

Keywords: newsnight, bbc, paxman, news, uk, politics, nawaz, maajid nawaz, quillam, jesus and mo, mohammed, prophet, mo ansar, mohammed ansar, mehdi hassan, islam, muslims, jeremy paxman, debate, religion, jesus, bbcnewsnight, bbc newsnight, bbc news, discussion, god, interview

Id: noOPNkxQE9M

Length: 9min 43sec (583 seconds)

Published: Mon Mar 24 2014

Reddit Comments

[u/KhazarKhaganate]

For some understanding of all the yelling going on in this video:

• Maajid Nawaz tweets a cartoon that isn't offensive, but his opponents claim it is "part of a series" of cartoons (in which the prophet is depicted etc.). Maajid I believe was running for UK elections at the time. Maajid has an organization that is designed to help reform Islam and to promote progressive beliefs and secularism within Islam and to vilify the extremists. This really rubs Islamists the wrong way because he argues against sharia and extremists.

TL;DR of the video:

• Maajid tries to explain to them that quoting someone doesn't mean you agree with everything they say and therefore showing one cartoon is not the same as supporting every cartoon they ever made. The Islamists accuse him of misrepresenting islam, of being a politician and tweeting something that muslims hate, of contradictory claims that his cartoon tweeted wasn't offensive and then it was offensive, and then accusations of linking to their website which Maajid denies. Then it just goes into a yelling match ending with the Islamists pretending to leftist liberals and irrelevantly asking "where are the women in this debate?!" etc. Then he irrelevantly talks about his "15 years of work with the LGBT community" (again pretending Islamists are super-pro-leftist).

Some contextual historical information:

• In many parts of the Muslim world, one particular good example being Turkey. The Islamists and conservative Muslims unite and try to run on platforms of "religious freedom", of "religious fairness", "anti-bigotry"/"SJW", and pro-free-market type policies. The Islamists use democracy as a platform to run "strongmen" candidates that pander to people and lie and say whatever they can to get elected, only to end up being essentially the kind of leaders who want to create a theocracy or dismantle secularism.
• The Islamists have understood that liberals in Western world are willing to listen to minorities. That they can speak up against "islamophobia", "bigotry", "religious freedom", even "gender equality" as we saw in the video and they know they'll get leftist votes to support their Islamist coalition. It's a big tent political idea. But the reality is that they Islamists detest and hate the leftists too. They detest free speech. They detest democracy. But they'll use it to their advantage, they'll pretend to support it until its usefulness has run out.
• Islamists are consequentialists, meaning that the ends justify the means. So they are willing to lie, do or say whatever they can to get votes, to justify the end goal of Islamic rule. They have no problems with this morally because God will reward them for deceiving non-believers into accepting Islamic rule. They see themselves as heroes while they do this. So lying to them, is not something to be ashamed of or hesitant about. In fact, it is part of the holy war type ideas taught in the holy texts. That you can lie and deceive in order to help God. Yes they're even allowed to drink wine/alcohol in order to deceive the non-believers.

So there's 4 categories of people to watch out for in politics in relation to this topic:

1. The Extremists (the violent ones; they are obvious to spot)
2. The Islamists (the deceptive non-violent ones; they are not obvious to spot)
3. The Actual Bigots and fascists (the Donald Trumps of the world who push narratives of us-vs-them and banning all Muslims, which only helps ISIS).
4. The Regressive leftists, SJWs (those who stand up for the Islamists just because they are currently a minority and because they think it would help them win against the fascists; they have good intentions but instead their actions only help the fascists [by not speaking out against anti-democratic Islamist values] and Islamists [by allying themselves with Islamists just because they are minority])

Moderation, atheism, secularism, anti-theism without singling out one religion over another, and speaking up for liberal or pro-democratic values, and speaking up for fairness under the secular laws, is key to a peaceful world.

[u/Iswitt]

Maajid needs support. He still identifies as a follower of Islam, but he's very daring taking up the reformation attempt that he has taken up. He's trying to reform Islam from the inside, and while I think we'd be better off without it entirely, that's not going to happen, so what Maajid is doing is worth supporting. These other guys are, as /u/redditnaut said, wolves in sheep's clothing.

[u/michaelb65]

The fact that the Regressive Left hates him is really telling.

[u/redditnaut]

They are nothing but wolves in sheep's clothing

[u/rasungod0]

They also turn on anyone who defends the target of their attacks.