Métis, who are they? | APTN InFocus

[Music] [Music] good afternoon I'm Melissa region it's somewhat surprisingly messy and certainly a contentious there's always been a misunderstanding of what is or isn't matey the word has been used to identify a nation a people but it's also been used more loosely and is a French word for anyone who is in of any mixed-blood in recent years it's being used more and more with people claiming that they are matey and as such are entitled to our rights so today we are putting matey identity in focus and we want you to join in the conversation here's our phone line so they're open call us toll-free 187 seven six four seven two seven eight six you can also tweet us at apt an InFocus before I introduce my guests to you let's set the scene with a look at AP tens investigates documentary by our own tal Amer and called identity crisis which aired in November 2016 it's who we are its naturalist and our DNA is things we do we even as a child is like your humor or gathering our social identity any listen the maytee community of stateless are but stone's throw from the Saskatchewan Manitoba border we thrived we're a big mated community before even anybody came here people don't understand and meet these more than Aboriginal ancestry or would European blood his history it's our the grassroots thinks it's it's all that combined Haney please there's only one true matey who come from Western Canada but in all reality dole the majority to matey people they're not Oba it's a sketch one in Alberta in Atlantic Canada there are many who would say no way I'm not First Nations I'm not anyway so I'm 80 I'm of mixed blood this is kind of I think a very important representation of of maytee history matey culture it's something like substantial Adam Gauri is a self-described red river nationalist it's important that matey you remain in charge of determining who is matey and believes the term matey is too widely used especially when it comes to self-identification like I said there could have been mixed communities elsewhere absolutely but they didn't have the same kind of nationalistic understanding of the matey nation and they didn't call themselves matey so why are we calling them matey Dubey rejects the suggestion she's not nadine it rejects being called a non status indian and for me and non status doesn't exist it's like a very gray area either your first nations your matey are you ready yet or you're nothing at all garnet birdie and his pals are getting ready for a clambake the word matey I guess we just used that probably for the last 20 years this is where our families have lived on these Tuscan islands for the last 275 years he says they're a mixture of English Scottish and first nation we are always comfortable with half-blood or half-free but that's not what they call themselves anymore we use that strictly now you will I don't think you'll find anybody calling himself a half-breed they'll just use the word meaty we're comfortable with it and like should other people understand exactly what we're trying to say who we are if one considers the word matey as a marketing brand it's been relatively successful a lot of the time the matey nation is the standard in which these groups are trying to meet and so using our terminology which is now enshrined in law they're aspiring to kind of become matey on the scale that the main tea nation is and even though there's not the history for it well first off let me assure you that we have been lamb basted by the traditional Western media for this and by eastern media or sorry matey for this very but for very different reasons but they don't want to engage in this discussion unless it's an online or under 140 characters or less and often behind fake names so everybody seems wants to be matey but no one wants to discuss how being matey is or how it's determined what makes me tea matey and if you want to hash it out while the Twitter trolls will come for me on either side Tanny debate who we saw a clip from earlier and that she represents the Canadian matey Council based in New Brunswick she was invited to join us on her show but in a press release today she said that they would have to decline the organisation felts that the issue wouldn't get the attention that it deserves because matey or Winnipeg is having a civic election today and they also felt it a few days wasn't enough for them to prepare for the show we will be hearing from people later in the show who had less than a few days to discuss the topic but we're able to offer their thoughts nonetheless and in the business of news we often hit up people within minutes of needing a comment for their perspective just to be clear the matey National Council also wouldn't return requests to come onto this show to discuss the issue of matey identities so joining us though we have a controversial you're kind of in the middle of this maytee debate his name is Daryl LaRue he is associate professor in the department of social justice and community studies at st. Mary's University in Halifax in recent years he's begun to research this phenomenon of Easter matey groups in Quebec and the Maritimes he's researched and written extensively on the subject including white settler revisionism and making of matey everywhere the invocation of the massage in Quebec and Nova Scotia and a paper called self-made matey that appeared in my Zenith we also have joining us via Skype Jason Madden where's Jason's here he is the m80 lawyer who worked on much of the litigation and advanced on matey rights and claims from Ontario westward over the past 15 years thank you both for joining us thank you did you get any grief about coming to have this chat I I didn't mention I was so they just directed it this way which is fine which is fine okay well let's just start I guess then by because there's what people say we're matey and then you've got other matey saying that does that doesn't fit the definition of matey you aren't even indigenous you over there are indigenous of some sort but it's not matey you maybe are something and something else but you're not matey let's go to and all of this has popped up in fairly recent time right let's go right to what might be part of the problem the 2016 Daniels decision in the Supreme Court it says there is no one exclusive matey people in Canada anymore then there is no one exclusive Indian people in Canada the matey of Eastern Canada and northern Canada are as distinct from Red River matey as any two people can be is this and it goes on but is this do you guys think the foundation of where we're getting the confusion over who is or isn't matey let you go first okay I mean I think that some of this social movement I'm calling it a social movement the eastern matey movement definitely comes before Daniels so I have generally identified it in relation to the Marshall decision which was a decision in 1999 at the Supreme Court that decided that the make how to write to make a moderate livelihood from the fishery so in Nova Scotia and New Brunswick you see that Acadians start calling themselves matey to access Aboriginal rights after Marshall and actually as the court case is happening so it's a movement that sort of predates what happens in Quebec by about five years in Nova Scotia and New Brunswick and then it grows even more after Palelei so there's the pally decision in 2003 where the Supreme Court again more or less decided that the the maytee have have Aboriginal rights under the Constitution and also actually set up a test a ten-point test in terms of maytee identity after that you see that the numbers grow significantly in Quebec and continue to grow at a really rapid pace in New Brunswick and Nova Scotia I just read in the according to census data from just to put this in perspective for our audience who may not know some of the backstory to this from 2006 to 2016 the number of people who identify as matey in Nova Scotia alone increased 125 percent yeah I mean if you look Nova Scotia yeah in 1996 there were eight hundred and thirty people who are identifying as matey many of them using the term to mean mixed-race mmm-hmm not as a distinct matey people and then in 2016 there's over 23,000 so it went up 28 times in 20 years Jason what is your what are your thoughts on this relatively new phenomenon of people claiming maytee identity in eastern Canada I think it's a unique element of the kind of experiment getting out of the lab from the Palelei case the the challenge for the matey nation historically has been government has not been willing to negotiate so the matey nation turned to the courts to say let's establish we have rights established we have planes now people from other locations are using those cases in order to you know create matey anew in areas where historic communities never were they are not a part of the matey nation and it really speaks to the same problem that First Nations have when the federal government starts to get into defining who and ian is under the indian air we now have the court playing and it's it's a it's a very it's a double-edged sword in one way their vet validate rights in another way they're creating these constructs are not based upon a peoplehood analysis they're based upon the facts the courts have before them in a specific situation and you're not getting a principle based approach now and in to a certain extent you have this phenomenon happening but the other thing too is it sucks the oxygen out of the room to really talk about the matey nation there is no identity crisis in the matey nation these groups have had been for over 200 years been asserting themselves as the matey Dacian using that term they're the only ones that actually meet the criteria for people but a language a culture of collective consciousness you know their collective consciousness doesn't rise 20 minutes after the pally comes down and so I think but you're what you're seeing happening and and it is chickens coming home to roost with certain expect to a certain extent government's didn't do their dog and sit down and negotiate with the mate occasion back in 1982 we've taken a series of phases Supreme Court of Canada and now we're some of the residual mess that is created by the court not being able to do this in a principled way only being able to do it based upon the facts before you where the main tea nation has always been focused on this though is did those court cases were a reason to get to the table to get to negotiating tables to finally negotiate these issue as I said the making nation doesn't have an identity crisis we know what communities are a part of us we know who we are we have for centuries the issue become is now you have these other groups who read a court case and say hey that's neat maybe I'll fit into there and the they have none of the antecedent the peoplehood and it's it's almost it's it's embarrassing to a certain extent for those of us who have been involved in the court cases because we're this has termed now is is just it is unbelievable when you see how people are according what these court cases have said about validating maytee rights based upon people being distinct from Indians being distinct from first nations in into it and trying to use this as essentially just any mixed-blood person being able to claim their matey and and it really is quite disempowering to the beatty nation and it is really quite a map that the court have made not simply because these issues haven't been dealt with in the way they should be jailed helpeth nation to nation government to government with negotiations with the appropriate representative we now have those peoples tablished and hopefully that will further solidify you know the matey r8e nation but I think that this phenomena isn't going away I think it's good to expose it but it is do why I mean why would these groups that there would have been room for these groups to pop up and and say we have the same rights but as non status Indians there's there's there was room for them to come in there why did they what do you think they're using matey big am capital matey well because they see it as and you I think the video before you see it as this well I don't fit in here I don't fit in here I haven't ever so great Indian grandma mom therefore I must be that is the offensive do the matey nation yeah and now let's just get this straight why indigenous will have right is they were here first they were here prior to Canada becoming ended a manageable becoming Manitoba jurisdictions becoming jurisdictions and that is what grounds there right and they were here first and they were distinct people and only the mates nation has those antecedents of people hood and so that the the issue that you have is these people who you know clearly don't be a part of their Anishinabe relatives and want to create them groups anew and it really does pollenization freedom that you have ongoing of you know largely non a Janus that are now profile has to access Aboriginal right and Cindy and and it is just well the story you're cutting out there Jason earlier this week so the whole notion of who is what is matey we put this to our viewers our followers on social media earlier this week and we asked what do you think about the issue of matey identity is any matey person a First Nation is any matey a person with a First Nation ancestor we asked that 66 percent said yes and 34 percent said no that's 66 percent of people polled say they believe if you have any indigenous ancestor you are matey so that shocked me and ruffled some feathers of meaty people who took issue with the question not only with the question but the response that it gathered and I guess we're seeing a little bit of that here if I have an ancestor five generations back who is meghna or Gong Qin then I am present-day matey we gave people a few multiple choice question or answers or a few multiple choices to in another poll online this is on our social media that asked who is matey five percent said anybody who has mixed blood 79% said a mate a person who's mighty has matey parents or at least one matey parent 16% said an indigenous ancestor somewhere in your background makes you matey and zero percent said that if you're married to an indigenous person your matey I was happy to see that one was it zero I was surprised to see some of the results in some of the other categories though okay so later in the show we are gonna get into the word matey its semantics of it is what type of noun is it it should we be using small m80 to describe some people big m80 to describe others are their non-status people miss identifying themselves as matey should a new word be created for this indigenous group of people who seem to distinguish or vt distinguish as separate for themselves but if your ancestry it has just one Aboriginal person it back in the you know four hundred years ago are you indigenous at all so we are going to take a break we will be back with more to discuss matey identity stay with us conversation now you can call in toll-free at one eight seven seven six four seven two seven eight six like and watch us live on the a PTI News Facebook page following tweet us at ap tienen focus and send your thoughts in an email to in focus at apt nga just where do many of these matey in the Maritimes come from we start in a place called the village historic Acadian in 1604 79 French man established a colony in what is today New Brunswick didn't knew how winter was hard here in Canada I just suffer greatly there and have them and died on that island that were buried their families didn't start arriving until the 16th 30s and 40s not everywhere but some of them did marry between the two cultures we don't have a mythos culture or amethyst that name we're gonna see if education is not here like it's out west Gregory Burke and his supporters disagree it's a the Acadian matey began soon after colonization they didn't have any wives and they married they mig/mag wives what come out of that where the children of mixed-breed the half-breeds Burke says it having one make my ancestor from that era is enough to make a person indigenous today I mean I always identified that I was Indian and I only have one ancestor so who's who has the right to say I'm not Indian it's for our ancestors that were had to suffer the genocide it's for our ancestors that for hundreds of years they weren't recognized as the indigenous people and it's time that we do be recognized as an indigenous people that was another clip from tall a morons documentary identity crisis which aired on a poutine investigates in 2016 let's go to social media right now we want to hear what you are saying about this topic Kathryn Guillaume 80 is a French word meaning mixed Indian and European blood it's crazy I'm white my husband is First Nations Cree my daughter should be matey but according to the government she's not matey she's First Nations she is First Nations let's see what Kelly had to say my mom is an issue knob a dad is English Swedish and the amount of times people are tell me that I'm 80 are countless that is a misconception that most people have thanks for that Kellyanne and now we go to Chloe matey would really define one parent being non-indigenous not grandparent not a great grandparent etc sorry guys otherwise we will have more princess white ducks claiming their full blood mate a status we go to Jennifer if it isn't legally then those of us of mixed ancestry should have some sort of designation as well why would mixed ancestry have been recognized hundreds of years ago but not today Robin the matey nation is not a pen indigenous catch-all for mixed nations you're related to the match if language ancestors culture and traditions if you're not and we go to Barbra not from an indigenous perspective you aren't not from a matey Nation perspective you aren't from a colonial perspective some may believe she's got the quotes so still belief doesn't make it real and Ryan if you do not trace your family back to a matey community do not involve yourself in matey culture or try to perpetuate our ways why would you even want to claim matey status and heritage so that's always have so if you would like to add your opinion to this of course you can here's how join our conversation now you can call in toll free at one eight seven seven six four seven two seven eight six like and watch us live on the aptn News Facebook page follow and tweet us at EBT an in focus and send your thoughts in an email to in focus at apt nga chief Terrence Paul of the member to First Nation on Cape Breton Island Nova Scotia is co-chair of the Assembly of macmail Chiefs there weeks ago his group and the maytee National Council drew a line in the sand by signing a Memorandum of Understanding that essentially jointly dismisses claims that matey exists in that province as a nation he joined me earlier today from Nova Scotia here's what he had to say hi Chief Paul so you've spent most of your life and member - you've been chief of member - for station for 35 years is when did the the Acadian matey come on your Raiders is something you knew of matey people in Nova Scotia growing up no I mean we I mean there's first I've heard of Acadian matey there's only me ma here in here in Nova Scotia so when you've heard of matey it was people who are from somewhere else not Nova Scotia yes they do I mean they have their own defined territory uh domaine t that you know and we've met with them and they explained fully and fairly well what-what who they are and where they're where their territory is when did you first hear the term Acadian matey when did that first come onto your radar well we were we got feedback from the provincial government that there was people claiming maytee status and that they had they had cards that indicated that so they expected to to get the the same rights as to make mass in Nova Scotia which is not right Anderson that's not the case and when did this happen when did you first hear from the province that there were people claiming maytee status and and all of the rights that come with section 35 I'm saying I might say about that couple years so because people have said this is a quote unquote new phenomenon and you're saying when you grew up you've never heard of matey out in Cape Breton around member 2 in Nova Scotia and then just a few years ago they came on the radar what so when did you and the matey national council get together on this issue we got together you know in October early October we've been having discussions before that we finally agreed that we would meet with the other president here in Nova Scotia and he was a very good meeting and as a result we developed an MoU to work together to ensure that the people that claimed meaty status are actually matey in the main t know themselves who they are and they have a process that the is a rigorous process that they go through in order for somebody to be recognized as a meaty and we have the same same process here and the main mast of Nova Scotia are the only ones and define for themselves who is me behind Nova Scotia so that's our process and so what what is the harm in people saying look we we've done our genealogy we've found that we have an ancestor who's nygma and we expect some rights what you can't just look and say let these organizations take shape and and make a challenge themselves and let the courts decide I as I said I believe that the the big bow Nova Scotia are the only ones that can define for themselves who is big ma Nova Scotia and the meaty are saying the same thing and and okay so what about if what's been the blowback I guess or has there been any blowback since you and MNC signed this MOU I'm sure like we got feedback from your stations that they don't agree with what we're saying and what we're doing and that's there was deaths their prerogative but we still maintain that Dominque moths are the only right holders here in Nova Scotia okay well thank you for taking the time to share that with us we really appreciate it as we're having this discussion here on InFocus today thanks so much chief ah you're welcome I am still here in studio with Darrell LaRue who has done extensive research into what some call a phenomenon of Quebec m80 and joining us now via Skype is Greg Burke of the Atlantic Aboriginal nation who has long asserted that matey do in fact insis exist in the Maritimes and in fact predates the red river matey he's joining us now Greg I'm gonna start with you I'm not sure if you could hear from your end what Chief Paul had had just said but I'm gonna quote something you used to be with the broad or matey and I found this on their website and I'm gonna quote it to you and have you respond to it our matey ancestors are the founding nation that forged the very foundation of the fur industry that catapulted the fur industry across this country from coast to coast sharing their skills tools and knowledge of trapping and hunting to the western provinces as we know them today so you know in Manitoba the territorial acknowledgments we recognized the this is the original lands of the Anishinabe the kre-o decree OG quit oh gee Creed decoded the den a people and this is also acknowledged as the homeland of the matey nation you guys would argue that's not the case the homeland of the main t nation would be the maritime no the Western may t have a homeland in the West as we do here in the East so there's nothing there's nothing that I'm defining as we are the homeland of the beatty because the West remain t have their culture which is very similar to ours and we have ours so I would define I would define the homeland actually for the maytee of all of Canada and that's how Louie we all had seen it that's how Gabriel Dumont had seen it and and that's how the Meiji Federation of Canada Caesar and and that is what as pole vault at the MSC to to organize the matey from coast to coast to coast because we're scattered and the matey beam the true nomads claim that all of Canada is our homeland because our homeland came from the French Mary the the Abenaki whoppin ol big mug Cree crow Blackfoot and and that's all through so you don't if you read history you don't see Big Bob marrying tree or curl or Blackfoot what you see is the French the Scottish and German whatever traveling right across Canada marrying the lady and we have matey not only all across Canada from coast to coast coast but all into the States we have matey our ancestors are here and Louisiana and they carry on the culture in Louisiana well they have no contact with the the making in the West and they have no contact or very little contact with the maintain in the East but they carry on the culture okay this kind of disgruntle coming from the Western matey where people write in your own province the MiG mouth i've whoever's wanted to do have your response to the MOU that was signed by the main T National Council and by the big mouth Chiefs of Nova Scotia who they've just put out a memo you saying with the the matey are not around here you know I talked to chief Paul who he's 35 years as a chief at member to he's born and raised in Nova Scotia he's never until recent years he said you just heard him say it too until recent years heard that there was any matey people as a people settled in Nova Scotia yeah yeah well that's sorry did did you have another question no I'm just wondering so he's saying that you don't exist there and the MNC is saying that too so I'm and you and you're saying you do so I want to hear your response Alou their position Frogger you know that's just rocketed I mean he lived on a reserve for 35 years that he said and and of course the main T lived right across Nova Scotia New Brunswick and and all through Canada in Louisiana like I said so you know if you if you haven't met a matey that's unfortunate but our community was Oliver Lockett eat so all of Nova Scotia so you know we've been here we've been here forever you know I I'm from a small town in Cape Breton they say and you know I had maybe in my neighborhood neighborhood people don't know of the matey they breathe hiding where you just did you just blend it in with the with the the rest of the people there because people don't know anybody here all this time yeah we just come out of the closet in in the 1500s when the first mixed marriage happened here and we have all kinds of records in the 1600 and 1700 with the mixed marriages the Jesuit priest named the children matey sighs and that's how they referred to and in the in all of the historian records they referred to each of either as Acadian Katie matey or matey we're gonna get to that a little bit about that in a bit the word matey and how it's a French word that means of mixed blood of some variety any variety it could mean it's not specific thank you but we'll get back to that we have a bunch of callers who are waiting patiently on line so if we can go to them right now my producer Beverly will tell us who we have here we have we'll get on from Ottawa calling hello will hi Melissa how are you I'm good how are you doing oh pretty good pretty good just listening to some of your guests today and you know there's some good comments there and there's some concerning comments as well but but it's an interesting topic for sure and what do you make of it what you hear I mean you're well familiar with it will is made T himself I know this name from my time in Brandon Manitoba well you've been involved in matey everything for as long as you've probably been walking on this earth you what do you think of this where we're at with this I don't know if we could even call it this east-west divide I don't even know what yeah people are gonna be mad so there's a few things that I think that need to be talked about and I just wanna and Jason for some of the things that he brought up in his discussion so I just wanted to start with a couple of quick points here and the first one being is that we're not matey we're not imagination or not mean to nation citizens because we're mixed in fact I would argue that being mixed is not even a marker of being matey that we are matey because we were descended from matey ancestors the matey are a distinct people we developed in Western Canada over centuries Jason spoke very correctly about this and and the United Nations declaration on the rights of indigenous people supports this idea of nation set of people hood and it definitely doesn't say that blood makes a people or a drop of blood makes a people what makes the people is things like community things like culture language food music dance clothing all these things are markers of people and the meaty nation you know thankfully has these things that have developed like I said over centuries and now we can definitely point to things like the infinity flag that was flown by copper craft which I see in Nova Scotia and I wonder how Cuthbert got over to Nova Scotia it's very confusing to me things like the fiddle things like the sash and I have watched this phenomenon for a while and I've talked to a couple of people and you know the idea of community is an interesting one there's no doubt there's 18 nation communities throughout Western Canada but what I see is actually there is a community development but it's a virtual community it exists on Facebook it exists on Twitter it exists on social media but I would you know very much and and I have a lot of people and actual indigenous people who live in those territories are saying they don't see any meaty communities but it's now existing in virtual reality that's interesting I like that's an interesting point to make well we are gonna have to let you go we've got another person on the line who is thanks for taking the time to give us a shout I appreciate that always good to hear from you now we have Kaede from North Dakota who's here with a question hello Kade hi how are you doing I'm great how are you doing great I I guess I you know have a statement as you know also a question maybe that Daryl could speak to afterwards but I'm looking at this and the focus of maytee identity is to an affiliation with the traditional maytee homeland historical and current indigenous kinship with the matey nation and finding acceptance it's not just having an distant ancestor without that kinship community cultured homeland it's illogical to claim to be matey simply on blood I think that's a connection with historic and modern matey community needs to be established and if it doesn't matter if you declare yourself to be acheived to start your own organization and say that you're representing 80 people or just that you feel that matey exist from coast to coast to coast as chief Burke said but at the end of the day you just are mighty without that you need to have that community in that historical connection so well I'll leave this to you Daryl well yeah I just pick up I guess on on that last point one of the things that I've discovered doing this research like I have acts I've accessed over 5,000 individual genealogies that are used by organizations so they basically presented them in court cases and looking through those 5,000 genealogies and these are genealogies of Eastern matey organizations and individuals who are claiming that identity 80% of those over 5,000 the individuals are relying on a woman in the 1600s why is that me yeah as the basis for their indigenous identity and in many cases and what I found actually is that 30 percent of those of the overall claims the individual has no indigenous ancestry because what happens is there's a bunch of French woman particularly in Nova Scotian Acadia who are turned into indigenous women for the purpose of this movement so and this is stuff that they present in court as evidence of their existence right so even the three largest organizations in Quebec right now I've had there I've seen their records and 30 percent of their members have no indigenous ancestry whatsoever and they start as movements against indigenous peoples rights that's actually the the people who end up founding these organizations in three different regions in Quebec they're actually founding white rights organizations and associations and also a sort of fomenting violence against a new people and make more people in different regions I'm proclaiming to be matey afterwards after Paola but having no indigenous ancestry whatsoever never mind matey and thirty percent of the case in the other cases most people we're not talking about a few generations away we're talking about on average nine generations away but for most it's actually 12 generations I'm one of those people generations I have indigenous three Algonquin ancestors in the 1600s who I'm related to three of their children from who are born between 1664 and 1673 so you've got more than a lot of what these people have more than 75% of the members that I've seen so your matey by this definition I could join any of the organisation's yes and do you identify as no absolutely what do you identify as I'm French Canadian that's why I've grown up as I hon Dan I fish just like my family have but in no way does that make me indigenous my family has maintained no connections no relationships with actual indigenous people and often actually Express animosity towards indigenous peoples as white people yeah and that's more or less what I've discovered in the Serg I've seen we're gonna take another break it feels like we need to have two hours for this decision we gotta go to a break but we are not done hashing out what is or isn't matey who is or isn't to my teeth please stay with us we are coming back hello welcome back in case you're just joining us we are putting matey identity in focus there are numerous groups emerging in Quebec in the maritime saying that they are the original matey and predate the Red River matey cousins or brothers or sisters by hundreds of years but establish matey groups on the prairies say no way and as we've mentioned the Assembly of magma Chiefs and the matey National Council have drawn a line in the sand signing a Memorandum of Understanding that says they reject these claims to the idea of matey Easter matey we've been discussing what's at the root of this and what's at stake for all involved Chantal viola is matey and an assistant professor in urban and inner-city studies at the University of Winnipeg she teaches about this very topic meaty identity so producer our producer here Beverly Andrews caught up with her between classes to find out what it is that she teaches about who is and isn't matey in addition to self identifying as me te you need to be able to prove that your prove a connection to historic matey communities recognized historic matey communities so that's usually in a certain kind of Geographic homeland also contemporary acceptance by again recognized matey so that could take the form of MMF citizenship and the no citizenship and being distinct from other indigenous nations so not first nation not anyway this is a controversial and could be a very painful topic when people say there's something and you tell them they're not it feels like the rugs being pulled out from under them but we can't lose sight of how this is impacting matey nationhood and self-determination you know the part of the definition of nationhood and self-determination is that a group has the right to determine its own citizenship and Lobby the government etc etc and that's all getting confused because of non indigenous Canadians with the one ancestor 200 years ago saying that they should have a right to speak in Supreme Court cases that are affecting maytee people across the country I would say that it's if you only have one ancestor from 200 years ago it's inappropriate to call yourself matey and to even try to find like justification or legitimize your claims to matey nationhood folks like that are these are non indigenous Canadians with an indigenous ancestor we are still joined in studio by Daryl LaRue he's a researcher at the centre of this storm and I'm wondering if Greg is still on skype with us I am yes okay good Greg we're gonna take some callers right now we have John Paul from Bathurst New Brunswick who's on the line John Paul how are you good good what are you phoning in here for I just want to remind your gift there that I can call himself a magma but if you look in the Treaty of nine seventeen twenty six their ratification you should know that no way I think it was 72 cheese that sign on that and they were all meaty our French name okay and in that treaties we all every meeting here in the East have been recognized by the British and by the makhmur themselves because it said on the treaty for their natural descendants yes so it doesn't matter if you and to back that up to you can look at the Colonial Act of 1850 this is the same thing even if you're meeting you're considering Indian so that's just game that the mick mars playing right now and the meet in the west try to pretend that there's no meteor almac mall here are Mickey I don't know why they don't understand that or they don't want to go along with that but I'm in court now with no lawyer for the last eight years and the government doesn't want to start the court right now but believe me I'm gonna go to the end and I it doesn't it cost me $20,000 of document to go in court hmm and I got all 35 people that I can prove that's all next month in dear arm and I see you have Greg is nodding in agreement with what you're saying there I mean great so if you're saying that the main T in fact do exist it's been acknowledged I mean I guess I would ask where were you guys when we were fighting out here we could have used some backup well 150% on that and I think a lot of it was a lack of leadership and the lack of organization from and and going back to Terrance Paul he said that he hadn't heard of any main T in the Maritimes until a couple of years ago well I took over I organized the maybe community in their shad st. Peter's a point to loosen the area there and when I started to come forward with the help of the EM FC em am FC who by the way are all plastered me everybody on the floor is Western me it became more prevalent and we were in the knew but I think a lot of it and I agree with you yes in 1982 my brother and I followed the court case very closely back and easy to and yes there there should have been a leadership and they should have been involved they should have been the court but I just want to touch on John feit he jumped at me here with the treaty the treaty clearly states that that we were recognized as Indian our ancestors did the negotiations for those treaties our names are all over the a lot of big mock took our names because we married into their families they have English names and at the end of it all the treaty pretty well stipulates where we're - fine okay - I'm gonna go to Daryl now this is not my wheelhouse I'm not an academic I'm not a researcher Daryl this you've spent a lot of yeah of your professional life looking into this I'm curious about your take on this treaty well I mean this is repeated over and over again first of all - Greg Burke's claim that the first child born to a mixed-race marriage was called massage that didn't happen there's no documents from 1604 that state that matey sighs did not mean what it it later come to mean in the 1700s in France at the time a tea size meant something completely different so that doesn't make sense linguistically if you actually look at the basis of that term at that time in history second of all this claim by Jean Paul that that actual a distinct matey people signed the treaty right is completely false the people who are in the treaty are representatives of the magma some of them happen to be mixed-race right now what's happening is these folks who are claiming to be Acadian matey are going back to those documents pointing out that certain people are matey meaning mixed race and not therefore they signed the treaty okay why can't they just go back at this word matey sighs why can't the Acadian matey say we are matey sighs what matey has come to me into most of Canada is one thing why don't you start from the ground up and say we are a different group that falls within under the umbrella of indigenous we don't like being called on status we don't like being called mixed blood the matey as they are now out of the fight the Miche have had have said we're not accepting you into our own why don't you start this other group oh I can't it be called mate Asajj and start from the ground up and build your nation that way well first of all I disagree that these folks are indigenous for the most part if they're claiming that an ancestor magma ancestor in the 1600s makes an indigenous as you heard the magma do not recognize another indigenous people in their territory right period Yeah right so if we're going to respect the right to self-determination that indigenous peoples have especially in this case where we're making claims that people who the magma didn't even recognize then signed a treaty on behalf of the magma that doesn't actually make a lot of sense and this is another sort of way in which history is being revised people who are mixed race in the in the past if they're MIG ba or if they're Algonquin or which which are two cases that I've seen they automatically all of a sudden become matey and the basis for a distinct matey people out east when those people at the time identified themselves as magma or Algonquin and were identified by their own community that way ok that's not true what they're the RO is trying to spin here when he said that the first baby born in 1601 was cut wasn't called matey saw it never happened well now McGarrett's is a well-known author who all her research is backed up by records and she has written in one of her fourteen books that in fact I know you're nodding your head Tara but I listen to your lectures and you you don't it I'm really at all here as you don't know our history at all but you want to speak about it and I do you agree with that because at the end of the day now Emily Griffith is a professor at Cal or retired professor kellton well-known author all of her books at the eraser where he cared for her books everyone in the backed up print from the first we are gonna be getting cut off here pretty quickly I wanted to say to Daryl what I find fascinating about use that this is your area of research you don't have a dog in the fight Greg it just said you know you don't speak for us I liked you as you weren't here with a dog in the fight that is all the time we have for today always we thank you for joining us to discuss these important issues on InFocus this episode will be available for download as a podcast on our website at a PTI news dot see a backslash podcast and if you missed any of the shows and want to catch up you can check out the website APTN news dot ta thank you so much to all my guests for joining us today I appreciate everybody's perspective as we discuss this thanks

Channel: APTN News

Views: 18,614

Rating: 4.5416665 out of 5

Keywords: aptn national news, infocus, metis, identity

Id: 747Diz1LmgA

Length: 51min 6sec (3066 seconds)

Published: Thu Oct 25 2018