LIVE Q&A on Soteriology 101

[Music] hello and welcome back to sociology 101 it was uh brought to my attention that we have not done a live question answer program in some time several months in fact and so i had some time this afternoon and thought i would jump on and reply to several questions that have come in over the last several months these questions come from a variety of different locations sometimes in the comment sections there on youtube or on the itunes page some of you who watch on youtube don't realize we do have a podcast page which is just the itunes page that that's how we started back in the day if y'all remember uh we started just doing a audio only podcast and um and we actually have more people who download the the audio only podcast than we do even here on youtube and so almost twice three times as many as you what you see uh watching these online videos or actually listening to the content through um itunes and so i try to every once in a while go back over to itunes and look at the comments there let me remind you if you haven't done so to download the app um i i forget to put this up there every once in a while to to go to sociology 101 to download the app to click like to click subscribe all of those things if you want to support us click on the support link all those things that we try to remind you of on a regular basis because it's important to make this program better and for us to continue to promote this material we need our patrons and our help and our supporters and so i always appreciate those who give and support and i am going to be watching the comments on the side chat here i already see casey lee is asking about john 15 and james chapter 3 and how do calvinists reply in fact a lot of a lot of my questions are um you know how how do calvinists think about this or what do calvinists think about this is because i was a calvinist for some time i think maybe some people want to come to me to know what a calvinist would think and oftentimes my reply is well you would have to ask a calvinist and you'll probably get a different answer depending on which calvinist you ask because as we've said dozens of times before uh calvinists are not a monolithic group calvinists disagree among themselves on several points and so it's impossible to rightly represent every form of calvinistic dogma or you know just like if you were to ask different provisionists or different armenians or non-calvinist perspectives you're going to get a variety of perspective which by the way is the best proof text for free will that there is is human experience it's the best proof text why do christians believers in christ regenerate men disagree on various doctrines if not for free will otherwise you it's just not tenable to believe that god sovereignly and unchangeably ordains for his children to disagree over doctrine and misinterpret texts why would god decree causally in any way causally determined decree whatever word you want to use there his own children to misinterpret his own bible that doesn't make any rational sense i think libertarian free will is the best explanation for why we have disagreements and have various views on different things and so what what i want to do is to try to engage with some of the questions that that have been collected caleb and others have collected questions for me and sent them my way um and some i've just found myself over the time and i've saved them into a side file thinking to myself i'll get to that eventually um and and one of the the questions that is probably one of the most asked questions is this one here a common question do you know of a provisionistic or a non-calvinistic church in my area no i don't i don't know i i mean if you asked me about richardson texas or garland texas where i reside i could probably tell you some churches where i attend or where i've attended or i know or if i happen to have gone to a particular area in texas especially because that's where i work as a part of the texas baptist denomination i might be you might find me at a right time where i write place where i know of a church that happens to have a pastor who you know agrees with me sociologically but more than likely i'm going to answer that question with i i don't know um and and i might be able to give you some advice and i will do that now as to how you find out if a church is calvinistic and sometimes the best way to do that is to go to their uh you know description page the about us page their beliefs page um and as soon as i start this broadcast the weed eaters and the people right outside of the office here start up i don't know i'm just curious can y'all hear the buzzing of the weed eater and the i guess it's a leaf blower right now right outside my window it's driving me nuts this mic is supposed to block out that kind of noise and so you may not even be hearing it but it's driving driving me nuts oh you can't hear it good i'm gonna put these i'm gonna put these things in because they help block out noise so maybe that will help my brain not to well good the microphone is paying for itself thanks patrons for helping me purchase this good microphone it's supposed to only click you know really pick up what's right here and even though there's a leaf blower literally right outside my window you can't hear it so um so it doesn't it doesn't bother you too much so that's good that's that's a good thing um but live live broadcasting for you but there's a few things i want to to make sure you're aware of that that tune in on a regular basis and that are not tuning in maybe on a regular basis but would would join for a live show obviously um being aware of the books that i have out on amazon god's provision for all is more of a positive presentation for provisionism god provides for all people yes we're dead and depraved and enemies of god all those things that calvinists like to talk about but god provides for dead depraved enemies uh that that's what that's what god's provision is all about is that he provides for people who are in all that horrible bad conditions that all of us like to talk about about how bad people are well god provides for bad people god provides for sinners and and no one has an excuse for continuing in their rebellion against god they can't say i was born rejected by my maker i was born without the ability to believe and god passed me over god didn't really want me can't say that god provides even for those who are his enemies who are dead wretched sinners god provides and so this is a defense of the goodness of god god doesn't provide because he has to he's not obligated to do that he does so because he's a gracious and good god and so we say that he's good because he's recognizably good we can recognize his goodness based upon how he treats his enemies uh the way jesus did we're very christo-centric sociology our our our theology and our sociology is centered around the person of christ jesus who did not pass by on the other side of the road like the the priest or the the republican uh he didn't pass by his enemy on this other road he stops and helps his enemy now if his enemies refuse his help that's their fault not his uh he's not less glorious or less glorified or less praiseworthy if some people reject his grace a gift doesn't have to be effectually given for the giver to get full credit for giving the gift grace does not have to be effectually applied in order for the grace of god to get for god to get all the credit for the grace that he provides he should get all the credit for even the grace that's resisted for even the grace that people walk away from he should get credit for that grace we shouldn't say that he didn't really provide grace for those people as the calvinistic system entails and so god's provision for all you can pick that up on i think it's like under four five dollars something like that on kindle on amazon so for next for really inexpensive you can find that on amazon uh god's the potter's promise was my first book and it is more of a polemic i ran it polemic i think it was ironic in the sense that i'm very cordial and loving towards my calvinistic friends as many of you well know but i tell about my own journey in and out of calvinism and i hit some of the philosophical issues but most of this book is the verse by verse through romans 9 hits on john 6 and ephesians 1 as well but really the bulk of the book is as a verse by verse uh ex jesus of romans chapter 9 for those that are interested in the potter's promise and this is a biblical defense of a traditional or provisionistic sociology for those that are interested in that also brent lay a friend of mine sent me this book recently i haven't read it all yet i've glanced through it he talks about uh two-part romans i i think he's got that out on amazon but i'm looking forward to to he to reading and diving into that a little bit more he talks about kind of how romans is divided into really two main sections where he's directing addressing the jews and then the gentiles gospel first to the jew and then to the gentile and uh and he he handled some of those issues some somebody sent me this there's a children's book on the duck and the duck and the rabbit uh that a listener sent me and i i appreciated that very much um from uh from jared uh kenyon uh is a listener that sent me that and i have it sitting next to my uh my computer here and i appreciate people who send me nice gifts like that that was just kind of cool he was thinking of me and and i get several other books here and there uh from friends and family and others and i'll try to remember to promote and talk about those things as they come in and i have my starbucks coffee here in my my mug for uh for enjoyment as we go through this so uh thank you for uh that kind comment i appreciate your work we do light and god bless you in your ministry appreciate that uh thanks for the kind words um jim barr's uh jim is saying for the critics of provision theology can we recognize his goodness because we can recognize it from his word uh exactly um let's see samuel carter saying do you have any plans to spend a whole episode engaging against other theological systems besides calvinism i have several i've engaged uh you know podcasts that i have engaged with um other doctrinal issues like molinism or i've engaged with dynamic some of the dynamic perspectives of open theism not that that's necessarily a different sociological perspective modernism is not a sociology so geological perspective per se because you can be a provisionistic molenist for example but we have engaged on different podcasts on those topics um but the the reason this as i've said before samuel the reason this was created was because i am a former calvinist and i created this broadcast as an answer to the calvinistic sociology because i did not feel that on at least youtube and on uh most of the podcast and even internet in general there was much uh material out there that was more provisionistic sociology that was confronting the calvinistic perspective i wrote on my dissertation on this topic and so the broadcast was created for that purpose now if i wanted to dive in other you know sociological issues like catholicism for example or confronting catholics view of sociology and the mistakes i think catholics make then you know i i guess i could do that here because sociology 101 wouldn't you know the name of it wouldn't necessarily be outside the parameter of sociology 101 but that wasn't the purpose of the broadcast as stated in the the bylines of why i created it so uh you know there were several things when i first started doing the podcast there were several things i read and several things i you know kind of looked through and one of them was pick a lane and stay in it you know one of them is sometimes the best the most successful podcast are not the ones that try to cover just an array of all kinds of of topics sometimes the best podcasts are the ones that really hone in on one particular niche issue and so that's just what i decided to do it's what i wrote on it's what i studied and and so that's that's where this particular podcast has been now some people be like well that's wrong you shouldn't do that you should you should widen out your range and do a scope of different material and content okay it's your opinion i i could see the value in doing that i've thought about starting other bible study podcasts and broadcast covering other topics and diving into other things uh other passions that i have like evangelism like i do as director of evangelism other apologetics uh podcasts i do engage and and teach in and have presentations on other topics in my world with uh texas baptist what i the curriculum and the things that i've developed with super summer that's out there um i just time wise i just haven't had time to go take that on for example mike winger who is a good friend of mine that has been on the podcast several times i i like what he does i mean he's getting he's doing that now for a living he used to be a pastor a actual youth pastor at a local church when he started doing his broadcast and eventually as you well know any of the any of you who follow mike winger's bible thinker broadcast it's it grew to the point where he could do that full time i i thought that was really great i love that he's doing that um and there's part of me that thought well what if i started i could start doing something like that maybe and start doing a full-time broadcast and teaching scripture and teaching other topics like mike does i just haven't been called to do that i don't i love what i do with texas baptist i love working with phil miller and eric hernandez and and carlos francis and and emily our new ministry newest ministry assistant who's just come on recently i love my texas baptist family i love traveling and teaching on evangelism and i don't want to leave that i don't feel called to do what mike winger does um but i have i felt called to start sociology 101 and this is what i think god has called me to do i think he's blessed what i've been doing and i've tried to be uh to be um faithful with what he's called me to do and the gifts that he's given me and stay in my lane so to speak with the the area study that i have uh i've worked on with this particular doctrine in this particular subject that i've gone through in my own particular uh journey um braxton hunter uh jokingly has called me not jokingly but i guess in some some ways tongue-in-cheek maybe called me a sociologist i mean that's been one of my studies because of what my uh journey brought me through as a former calvinist and so that's one of the reasons i guess that i have i've stuck to this as far as for this particular broadcast and i have considered and i have prayed about other uh lanes so to speak of broadcasts and other things that i might do um and there's caleb making a comment i love caleb caleb is one of the guys that helps us here with marketing uh with sociology 101 um and he he does the the cool thumbnails and stuff that you see that makes this look good and so i love caleb uh he's written some great songs he's a musician and so um caleb behind the scenes is is uh taking care of a lot of things that i have not been able to take care of and and our patrons help with that a lot of the answers and the you know the we we i don't y'all know this but we we put a lot of things out online and there's a lot of people who ask questions uh that you know there's a eric uh kemp also helps with some of these things that i don't have time to respond to all of the technical issues um if you know one of the things don't download right or this person has an issue with this thing or that thing or recently caleb god bless you brother somebody just stole our content and and put out an audiobook the putter's promise it's the funniest thing that caleb started working with his dad on recording the potter's promise um in audio because people were asking for the audio version so i was like oh great and all of a sudden you know one of my friends messaged me and he said hey i appreciate the audio version i downloaded your audio version i said oh caleb got that done already and i i messaged caleb and i said hey man you already got this done and he goes no i've put anything out yet it's like there's an audio version of this book up on amazon i didn't put it up there you didn't put it up there where's the money going if somebody just stole it we don't have any idea it's not ours so we're like we're like fight and it's not easy to get taken down apparently because we've been trying been trying to find out who's getting the money for this content so they just stole our content and recorded it we found the actual voice of the guy who does the voice and he didn't know anything about it either he said i was just hired to do it and he said he didn't know who who you know it was i don't know it was just this crazy stuff that we deal with that and i don't know you know maybe i should even brought it up they are gonna uh i i don't know what's gonna happen with all of that but we have to fill out all these forms and caleb's handling all of that caleb's being very gracious to try to handle uh tracking down who's stealing our content so i guess that's the form of flattery when people start stealing your stuff i i guess so that's not even the point of of today's broadcast though obviously we're going to be getting uh to um to questions here in a little bit and we're getting there um but before we jumped into questions i did somebody mentioned to me um that there there's some great comments that i caleb always is really good about pointing out things um that you know nice things that people are saying sometimes you've got to take the time to go read the nice stuff because when you're doing kind of a polemic type of ministry that is confronting brothers and sisters in christ you're going to get a lot of negative negative comments as you can imagine um because you're getting a lot of people that disagree with you and that's the nature of it i understand that if i was you know back in my 20s and i was seeing somebody like a layton flowers out there coming against my particular doctrines that i had grown to love i i could see how i might have gotten angry with and upset with someone like that when i was in my 20s going through my calvinist stage especially in the early early stages of my calvinist beliefs and so um it's good sometimes to stop and to look at the positive comments like some of you'd find folks who've made some very positive comments on the side chat and i appreciate that and so i i wanted to take just a moment to show you some of those things because i know you guys hear a lot of negative comments over 600 comments on ratings most of those are five star i really appreciate those four and five stars um most of those are there and then there's a jump there and the one stars and guess guess who those those folks are are our calvinist friends possibly some of them not all calvinists give me all uh one star some of the some of the even the calvinist um say say uh nice things about me but just i just take a second here and let's let's look at some of these uh this is the last one that was posted up here that most recent one i guess they say this they say i grew up in a reformed presbyterian home after experiencing the loss of seven babies and going through some time of very dark depression and anxiety although i never doubt i have doubted god's goodness i decided to explore this controversial topic more after listening to nearly all of leighton's podcasts some multiple times and reading his books i'm convinced more than ever that the calvinistic sociology taught in so many of the conservative churches now has grounded is not grounded in biblical truth i used to find comfort in the fact that i believed all the horrific things that had happened to me were determined by god before the beginning of time meticulously for his own secret glory but after two years of studying and learning i have a different understanding one that upholds god as more glorious and good and one that holds me responsible fully for my sin note i love that she she noted that it's not just about confronting determinism it's about owning responsibility for ourselves this is one of the reasons that i did the podcast yesterday with jordan peterson and and macarthur really commending jordan peterson why because he's he's saying it's so important psychologically and it's important for eyesight i think it's also important in your christian discipleship you own your responsibility you are responsible for what you do uh you're responsible for your actions calvinism whether calvinists want to admit it or not calvinism for some people not everyone leads to an abandonment of responsibility like we saw with derrick webb and others where they say well i'm not really responsible whether i believe or not it's either an effectual gift of god's grace or it's not either pick me or didn't i'm lying next to lazarus waiting for him to draw me out of the grave and if he didn't it's not really my fault he didn't really want me maybe this is all real and i'm not chosen and what's what's this lady saying i have to i i am responsible for my choices it's me i could have done otherwise i shouldn't have done that thing that i did and i could have resisted that temptation he did give me the grace and the way out i could have done otherwise and what i don't that's me that's fully my sin that is so important to healing that is so important and valuable so i'm really great grateful that that that she recognizes that i think it's she i don't know why i got she not sure he or she what oh oak hill girl is where i got she from i knew there was reason i was referring to her as a as a female okay leighton's gracious tone and his ability to debate topics with such a good nature uh such humility has been coming back for each of new episodes he also plays the the theologians he contends with for themselves so i don't feel that he makes a mistake of misrepresentation i highly recommend his podcast thank you oak hill girl i appreciate that um you can see some of the other ones there uh someone asking for a you know a broadcast on losing salvation there are several broadcasts i've talked about about eternal security or losing salvation or apostasy those kinds of things if you're looking for that here's a calvinist they gave me three stars it's reasonable calvinist to give me three stars okay dr flowers does a good job at articulating his perspectives interpretations and ideas being a calvinist i don't agree with his provisionism at all but i do hardly enjoy his questions even though his snark snarkiness rubs me the wrong way at times i don't remember being too snarky i'm usually not too snarky thank you for desiring to know christ and his word rightly dr flowers thank you for sharpening there's a good attitude um ranger uh cronk chrono ranger thank you i think kind of a moderate moderate review but that's okay i can i can live with that um this uh this uh podcast is a great job breaking down those verses that calvinists use to support their doctrine once you see the actual context of those passages simple to see the writers did not have calvinism in view um balance and gracious godly critique refreshing uh thanks guys for these these um nice comments and i put these up here to say um if you haven't left a comment or a five-star review on the itunes or uh on the app store there's also app store reviews you can't see this but ridge max you know who made our uh well let me put this up there real quick if y'all don't mind before we get to these other questions let me let me share their screen i think y'all can see that can't you there it is okay there's ridgemax.co.co for those there's all five star ratings 88 ratings already on the app in the app store hadn't been there that long it's a free download you can get all of how cool that looks um all of the broadcasts can be right there for you can download them you can also read the blog articles there if you want to uh to see them um and there are [Music] um a lot of five star reviews there um several very nice comments um excellent says my wife and i've been following leighton's ministry for several years his teaching on sociology 101 is excellence very gracious to those who do not agree with his sociological position this app will make it easier to watch his material one suggestion for the app is to change to work in landscape mode and to fill up the screen on an ipad okay there's a good there's a good suggestion that we can pass on to to ridge max maybe they can make that that uh change there so cool stuff um and and some suggestions for improvement that's cool i would like to hear that i can pass it on to ridgemax as well um and so neat stuff um well you know it's not really fair i i just pulled up the three and five star reviews i didn't pull up any one star reviews okay so let me stop it here let me let me do i got it i got to be fair i got to get full representation right i mean that's what we're bragging on here trying to be fair that we give representation for both sides so let's um let's um let the calvinist uh represent me the five the one star let's look at a one star okay here we go from calvinist light to pelagianism so i guess maybe that's what he's accusing me i was a calvinist light at one time of course that could have been a real calvinist and now i'm a pelagian i guess that's that's what like i guess that's what he's uh implying here okay listen for listen for yourself listen to this the dividing line and the debate between white and flowers flowers is a one string banjo he's out to destroy calvinism and salvation by grace alone okay so i i guess you could make a case that i am out to confront calvinism that is that is true not not that i am and i i would highly recommend that you go watch the debate with james white knight i would recommend that you look at it on my youtube page rather than his because on my page you can actually see the powerpoint that i am presenting uh whereas on white's page he doesn't put that up there and so it's hard to see where i'm referencing from the verses that i'm going through just so you're aware of and i i might i put the debate up on my podcast and youtube before james several weeks before james white did so it was out a lot sooner i'd love for you to watch the pride the the debate i think it was a good debate um and you cannot have good understanding of calvinism by listening to flowers you cannot he says okay i i think that the fact that i have calvinist on to represent calvinism that i put calvinist own words up on the screen look at the sources for themselves that that should be enough to understand calvinism and so that that i would disagree with him on that flowers is a case study in in balance i wish flowers would just debate white again instead of ranting on his show and him and white throwing responses back and forth again i've invited james white on the program i've invited myself to go back on his program if you would rather me go there um i have openly willingly said i would debate him again given the right parameters obviously and so i'm not running away from james white james white has denied wanting to have discussions with me for whatever reason so it's not a lack of desire on my part to have continued discussions with dr white would love to do that um okay well my expectation to this one listening listen to all the opinions and counter opinions i agree i think you should listen to both sides don't judge a theology by those who don't understand it and can't characterize it well i would agree but i would disagree that i don't characterize it well because i actually allow calvinist to characterize it so i'm not sure how i'm not characterizing it well if i'm playing calvinist own sources i really hope flowers the best and hope he returns to a protestant christian view of the necessity of grace and the doctrine and the deadness of men and said again i agree this this just proves this guy does not understand provisionism if you want to accuse somebody of not understanding something because we do believe in the necessity of grace and we do believe in the deadness of men and sin um and we are protestants and so the fact that he doesn't think any of those things are true i think represents himself in a poor light more so than maybe what he's hoping to represent me um let's let's do another one star let's keep myself i got to keep myself humble here right okay um leighton flowers devotes his podcast to attacking biblical orthodoxy well that's debatable whether your view is biblical orthodoxy given that the first 400 years the christian church agrees more with my sociology than yours just saying if you're going to appeal to orthodoxy it's okay in other words for us to reference orthodoxy i.e the history of the christian church and what it actually taught the first 400 years if you're it's not to say that that's authoritative the bible's our authority but if you're going to pillow to biblical orthodoxy then i can appeal to biblical orthodoxy and i can actually find more support in my history the christian church then you can just just saying though i would consider him a brother in christ thank you same here i find it quite sad that he spends so much time and energy striving against the clear teachings of scripture i don't know why god decreed for me to do that but i guess i guess you you're why are you questioning god and his decree for leighton flowers to spend so much time doing this i'm not real sure or maybe you don't think that god really decreed from leighton flowers to that i'm not sure which the logical artwork working of god's sovereignty with the prophets apostles theological giants and our lord himself the reformed declare that from the beginning to the end salvation is of the lord of course we all agree that salvation is of the lord we just don't conflate god's choice to save the repentant with the choice of a man to repent in faith when you conflate those two choices and bring them into one choice and conflate them as if they're all the same choice and then say the lord is sovereign over salvation then what are you really saying you're saying god is in as much control of those he saves as he is on whether you choose to repent believe or not and that's just not something we find in the pages of scripture obviously so with that let's go to questions now um and looking through the sign chat a little bit i also want to remember that many questions may come in even as we're talking here you're you're free to ask questions on the side chat i am not going to promise to be able to answer them or see them either oh yeah the provisionist perspective is in the house uh erica drew is commenting there he says we're way snarkier than you are brother leighton that must be drew because he's the one who refers to me as brother brother leighton uh and so drew yes i think you are i listened to y'all this morning while i was walking in fact um just your latest broadcast i just listened to which was really good all of your broadcasts are really good guys i like the provisionalist perspective um even though they don't you they don't just agree with everything i say in fact eric and true disagree on some things shock and awe and they still love each other and can still have a podcast together people who disagree with each other on certain points can actually have a podcast together a shock and awe now you should uh subscribe to those guys if you haven't already the good another good podcast that you can listen to that's a provisionist perspective if you will um so here's a few questions that i i saved in the sidechat here that i want to walk through first and then as i have time i will try to engage in some of the questions that you you guys present and you feel free to repost your questions as we go through this because they do scroll past pretty quickly uh in the side feed i gotta get a drink of my coffee before we dive in here okay so do you believe here these are questions exactly how they came to me okay so do you believe that you transform your own heart how do you explain why some people believe the gospel and others don't so the question is getting to this this point okay do you believe you transform your own heart do you believe you give yourself a new heart no god gives us a new heart but who does he give a new heart to those who humbly confess that they need a new heart so it's it's kind of like in a you know even in a marriage relationship many of you know my wife is a therapist a marriage therapist and um you have people even unbelievers who are having marital issues um many of the people who come to see her are believers because she's a christian and they know she's a christian counselor and so christians tend to come to christian counselors but occasionally non-christians will come to her for counseling for their marriage and so even in the unbelieving world you can have people who are enmity with each other they are fighting with one another right and and sometimes it's it's one person's heart is hardened against the other person for whatever reason maybe one of them committed adultery and there's a there's a break in the relationship or something has happened right and there's animosity there's a there's a problem with the marriage oftentimes when someone comes to counseling that's usually what's going on there's something that's about to break and they know they're close to divorce or they're thinking about it or something has happened and they're trying to fix you know maybe a last-ditch effort or whatever it is to fix this marriage help us fix it and so a counselor oftentimes is helping these people go through that that crises together and to work through their problems together and one of the the keys to that working it out is to confess the problem is to admit there's a problem confess wrongdoing so especially if one's committed adultery then one would say in that kind of counseling situation they have to own their mistake i have i have broken trust i have made a mistake and even unbelievers can do this with their their spouse right they can what what are they doing my heart was bad i i was wrong i did the wrong thing right there's nothing supernatural about that there god doesn't have to cause somebody to do that through some effectual grace even an unbeliever can admit they're wrong humble themselves and say forgive me i i did the wrong thing honey i was i was bad i i acted upon lustful impulses and i did something i should not have done will you forgive me even a unbeliever a pagan somebody who's never even had a relationship with god at all can come to that point of repentance in a relationship with their spouse right now in those situations can there be healing can a can a a marriage that was once broken become reconciled well of course it can many relationships have made it through adulterous reductious affairs or some other break in the relationship where they have come closer than they were before because one humbles themselves and they are reconciled in some way right so what's the process that happens one recognizes i've made a mistake they humble themselves they own that mistake and they try to make amends with the person that they were once at enmity with right okay in the same way you're at enmity with your the father you ascend against him you are an adulterer so to speak you have you have gone your own way you have tried to be your own god you have followed maybe other gods you've worshipped other gods so you were in an adulterous relationship in a sense with god does that mean you can't recognize that fact humble yourself so as to be reconciled with him see you you see the analogy the commonality between that responsibility that you have with god in the same way that you would have that responsibility with a spouse so two you can come to a point where you say god my heart's corrupt i recognize that about myself i desire other things i desire other things above you um i i often fail in my effort to serve or to follow you and to do the right thing i know what's right and i often find myself doing the wrong things i recognize that about myself i humbly admit that okay that's not changing your heart it's confessing you have a corrupt heart just by confessing that doesn't automatically make you stop doing those things i wish it did because back whenever i was a teenager and i confessed for the very first time the corruption of my heart then i would have never suffered those temptations anymore right but we all know that it's a daily battle it's a daily struggle it's a roman seven kind of struggle oh the wretched man that i am that i continue to return to the the vomit of my past so to speak as the the proverb says that as a dog returns to his vomit so to we return to the sins of our past the lust of our past that's just a constant battle that we have with the things of this world but what is our responsibility in that to own it that's that's something i did i i messed up and you humbly confess that god's part is transforming the heart god's part is giving us a new heart so once you confess you have a bad heart then god gives you a new heart calvinist reverse that order god has to step in unilaterally step in and change the person's heart to cause them to confess they had a bad heart so in other words you have to get a new heart on calvinism to confess that you had a bad heart and your heart's not even bad anymore apparently at least at least it's it's been regenerated in some to some extent on calvinism because you've been born again in order to believe and in order to trust in him so in order to confess that you have a bad heart in order to confess and believe in him you have to get a new heart first and it just puts the cart before the horse the bible never teaches this the bible teaches you confess your corruption you confess your sin so as to be healed so as to be set free you confess your bondage so as to be set free you're not set free so as to confess you were once in bondage you don't you don't confess that you have a bad heart after you're given a new heart you're you confess you have a bad heart so as to get a new heart and god's the one who gives you that new heart and i don't know how to be any more clear about that i really don't i i mean i'm commended i'm not very good at a lot of things but i'm usually pretty good at explaining fairly difficult concepts and very simple easy to understand ways that's one of the reasons i was in youth work for so long i i'm not trying to pat myself on the back but i'm usually pretty good at taking difficult concepts and making them pretty simple i don't know how to make that more simple i don't know how to be more clear about that and i'm not trying to be up upsetting or mean to to my calvinist friends who ask these kinds of things but what else can i say to make that more clear and and maybe maybe some of you can help me to to be more clear in my explanations of how that works but um it seems pretty basic and pretty simple to me you humbly confess you have a bad heart which even pagans can do in in in regular relationships with other people why do you just assume that we're born in a condition where we can't do that in a relationship to god when he approaches us with the good news of the gospel is beyond me i don't i don't know where you see in the scriptures that we don't have that capacity but i think we do have that capacity not only that capacity that responsibility that ability to respond to the well-meant offer of the gospel calling us to repentance and faith and that's what i'm going to continue to push back on calvinist i don't see any reason to suggest that people are born without the ability to respond to the gospel in a positive way and that's just something i'm just going to continue to push back on okay um there have been 51 comments since i put that up and i did not see a single one of them so uh honest question uh christian this is just the first one i saw when i opened back up the the comments honest question can we say god has greater desire for human beings to have a relationship with him in a libertarian sense where not all men is are saved then his desire to save all men thank you um yeah this goes back to the the whole accusation that you'll sometimes see from calvinist that god is trying to save everybody but failing this presumes that god wants to try to effectually save people he wants to he wants to effectuate faith in people but he's failing with a lot of people apparently that's not our contention god wants people to who worship him in spirit and in truth freely in other words just like you want someone i would hope a spouse that loves you freely not somebody that you somehow give a loaf love potion to who is effectually caused to love you beyond their control i i would hope that you would not want that kind of love relationship where you give somebody a potion and they automatically just love you because you gave them that potion i would hope that you would want a relationship with a spouse who actually chose freely to love you they could have chosen not to they could have chosen someone else but they chose you because that's a real relationship i think that's reasonable in the same way god wants real worshipers he wants people who love him freely not people he is somehow manipulating or causally affecting to love him in some way and we just don't think that that's what the bible reveals the bible seems to us to reveal a god who desires true relationship which means true choice and true freedom in that relationship and so god's not trying to effectuate love and failing god is truly giving us the ability to make our own choice and are and we're responsible for it meaning we're able to respond to his appeals and his offers and if we reject his provisions and we reject his his appeals then we will suffer the consequences for those those choices and we're really responsible creatures and therefore we're held responsible for what we choose to do hopefully that answers your your question um and again i'm not i'm not previewing these so uh i may be stepping in it when i put these up there but um c.w miller says mr flowers what choice did you have in being birthed by your parents in this country versus a child born in arabia that has no chance of hearing the gospel i did not have any choice as to whether i was born in the united states or in arabia just like the person in the first century didn't have a choice as to whether they were born in an israelite family or a gentile pagan family which is exactly what paul is addressing in romans chapters one through three is that just because the gentiles did not have the revelation they were clearly made known the truth of who god is through general revelation and therefore no one has any excuse because the law of god is written upon their hearts and so paul is actually answering this exact same question that you're raising here but he's doing it in the jew gentile context what it's not really fair if you're not really if you're born as a gentile a pagan gentile versus a elect jew because the elect jews have the mosaic law they have the revelation they have the law the prophets they have all this revelation of god how can it be fair for that pagan gentile born in some far-off you know tribe and he doesn't have the revelation of god and paul's answering that question by saying they don't have an excuse because it has it has been clearly made known which this is a perfect introduction to one of the questions um and that's so thank you mr miller for that question because it's going to lead right into one of the other questions somebody asked about macarthur um here it is the macarthur bible commentary on romans 1 20 macarthur writes if a person will respond to the revelation he has even if it is solely natural revelation god will provide some means for that person to hear the gospel if a person will respond this person is asking this question isn't that contradictory of total depravity which teaches that person can't respond see this is the thing we played a sermon from back in the 1980s from macarthur teaching this very thing um out of romans 1 20 that if a person does respond to the the general revelation that he's been given the natural revelation he's been given then god will provide more god will provide more revelation which is exactly what we believe this is what i teach in the book that i mentioned earlier god's provision for all i get into this this this issue of what about those who never hear the gospel and i actually answer that question by saying everyone has sufficient revelation to respond to god and people are held responsible for the light they've been given those who are faithful to little will be given more those who are unfaithful with the little they have that will be taken away from them and therefore what the scripture seems to indicate is that god will bring more light more revelation to those who are faithful with the little amount of light that they've been given and macarthur gives us beautiful illustration of a story of a young boy in some tribe who responded to the general revelation of god and that a a in time a missionary came to their country and came to their tribe and shared with them the story of jesus and this boy this says this is the very this is what this is what i've been waiting for this is the the revelation that god's been bringing me about in dreams about this this man named jesus and i've been waiting for this revelation and he tells this awesome story about how god brings more light more revelation to those who are faithful with the the amount of light in revelation they've been given so in other words there is no one who has an excuse that they don't have sufficient light so no i don't have the choice as to whether i'm born in a place with the gospel at my fingertips and if you know literally a church on every corner like here in the bible belt of texas or whether i'm born in arabia in some place where the gospel is much more difficult to find i don't have a choice about that but that doesn't mean that anybody has an excuse why because the light and revelation of god is sufficiently made known and therefore anyone and everyone can respond to the light revelation they've been given and that god is faithful to bring more light or revelation so hopefully that that helps to address that particular uh particular uh question dan says does leighton consider himself an armenian there's several articles uh about that online you can type in the word armenian there so trial g101 um and you would find many articles about where where we have some commonalities with our armenian friends and some disagreements with our armenian friends and i've had brian abushano who is the president of the society of evangelical armenians on the podcast several times um i've discussed differences that we might have with regard to the nature of man and eternal security and those kinds of issues that we might have um and so i understand when people call me an armenian why they might call me an armenian but i usually don't wear that label because even armenians would disagree with me on several points of doctrine within the sociological camp so hopefully that that helps um dan says thanks hello dr flowers thank you for all that you're doing the kingdom god my question is what is your view on the lordship salvation free grace controversy he thinks in advance um you know it depends on who and what you're you're reading because just like with every other controversy that's out there there are different nuances and different arguments being made and so i can read somebody who's defending more the lordship side of the debate and actually agree with exactly what they're saying and then and then read somebody who's reading the who's defending the free grace and agree with what they're saying and aspects of what they're saying and disagree with other aspects of it and so um i probably i've been asked that question enough that i might um i might do a broadcast on it i know that ken wilson has written some on that in in in defense of his particular perspective against some of the free grace uh arguments that are made with regard to justification and forensic forensic justification those kinds of things but it would probably take more than what we would have time for on this particular broadcast or that i have the material to discuss without being fair to both sides one of the things i i remember going through back when i was a calvinist even was understanding and the idea and the concept that jesus is lord you don't make him lord he is lord and so when you accept christ as savior um some people say well you can accept him as savior but you know you don't you don't recognize his lordship until you grow in your relationship and there's a lot of truth to that in my own experience as a seven-year-old understanding him as savior is one thing but to understand him as lord and follow him as a disciple to take up your cross it's something that's a little deeper and more uh mature in a relationship than that a seven-year-old can even comprehend and so i think there has to be some grace when it comes to understanding the different doctrines with regard to the sociology of these debates and so let me put that one on a back burner and say that i'll consider doing some more study and doing a show on that particular controversy so that i can better represent both perspectives and the many nuances of the different perspectives in such a way that's fair to those who are representing those perspectives because i don't want to be unfair to because i have friends on both sides of those that particular debate and i don't want to misrepresent either side when it comes to that um all right emmanuel thank you for uh and that's not five million dollars by the way or five thousand dollars even by the way but uh that's still very generous of you thank you um there's different because somebody was making some snarky comment about because somebody looked like a made a really huge donation but it wasn't it's not dollars it's it's there's different credits in different places from different parts of the country based upon what people are donating and so but but thank you nevertheless thank you for your super chat donation uh hello dr flowers how do you interpret passages like 2nd samuel 17 14. um i'd have to pull up that passage because believe it or not i don't have the bible memorized not that i'm suggesting that you think i do but um but if i just pull it up here do a little on the spot second samuel you say 17 14. second samuel 17 14. is that right the lord has appointed to defeat the good counsel tenth of the lord might bring evil upon absalom yeah i'm not seeing why that passage would even be in question an attempted lord might bring evil upon absalom um yeah i mean there i think maybe the question is to the to the point of the god's intent to bring evil upon absalom um just at first reading i have to go back to look at the entire context of the passage but there's often passages of scripture about god bringing evil or harm and evil not necessarily being moral evil that god's causing moral evil but that god is bringing wrath upon somebody by allowing them to go their own way um and so to bring uh to bring punishment upon a person for his rebellion which if anybody knows anything about the story of absalom uh was obviously a rebellious person who did some very sinful things and that for god to bring want to bring evil upon him is not necessarily saying that god is the author of evil or has is the author of moral evil but instead that god in his judgment may may pull his hand of protection to allow the natural consequences of one's evil i eat or the wrath of god upon them and so um at first reading that's probably where i would and i meant them sorry i should have pulled that into the screen but um that's probably where i would go with that passage but again to be fair i would have to look at the entire context and read through it get to exactly what he's talking about um let me let me go through a few more of the prepared questions that i had pulled out so that i can make sure i can get through those about the end of this broadcast um okay here's another one for example is someone asking me how i think a calvinist would understand something and again it's only fair to to hear that from a calvinist um that actually promotes calvinism and i'm not one of those people obviously anymore and so you would have to ask a calvinist or read a calvinistic commentary on luke 7 50 to know this and he's saying how would a calvarist understand the verse where it says your faith has saved you go in peace and there's many passages of scripture where it talks about especially healing where the you know the interaction is usually with you know christ and someone having the faith or the trust in him and him saying and declaring something to the effect of your faith has set you free your faith has healed you um and and therefore it seems that in a healing type of situation at least as far as it entails physical healing is that faith precedes the healing which therefore would seem to follow that faith would precede the healing in a spiritual sense as well is that your faith will heal you your faith will propitiate you your faith will set you free it's through faith that you are born again not the other way around and so this is another example of the order solution so to speak the order of salvation as faith preceding the healing faith preceding the atonement faith preceding the new birth um and that this would be another good example of proof text against calvinist how calvinists answer that i think they would have to say well your faith yes has saved you but your faith the reason you had is because god gifted it to you and then they would probably appeal to other passages like romans 2 8-9 where it speaks of of faith as a gift and the way they've interpreted that passages at least of course we've contended with the way they've interpreted those passages and have many broadcasts on it but i'm telling you the way that calvinists would probably answer it is that faith is a gift by god and he gives it to some people and not others and so your faith has saved you yes but god's the one who gave you the faith so he gets all the glory because he's the one who gave you the faith and so you shouldn't take credit by saying it's actually faith that it's from you it's faith actually that came from god to you and i would assume that that's probably the way the calvinist would answer that the way that i would push back on that is saying well just because a gift is from god doesn't mean it's given effectually to some people and withheld from everyone else you can say that something's a gift in the sense that faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of god so yes god did grant you faith by bringing you the word but you're responsible for what you do with his gifts and just because you have the gift of singing for example doesn't mean you'll necessarily use that gift for his glory does it no because gifts don't have to be effectively applied for god to get credit for giving you the gift a gift is never in any other walk of life seen as effectually given in order for the giver to get full credit for giving the gift except on calvinism calvinists just assume that the only way god can really get glory all the glory for the gifts he gives is if he gives them effectually and therefore anyone else over here who looks like they're denying the gift you must you has to be because god really doesn't doesn't give them the gift and we're saying well that actually removes his glory he should get all the glory for the gifts he gives even when the the the receiver suppresses that gift and so we we believe he should get all of the glory for all the gifts he provides even for those who don't use his gifts rightly so a good singer like you know michael jackson was obviously a talented person regardless of what you think about his music or his life or whatever else he was obviously talented right well would anyone even a calvinist deny that the talent was given to him by his creator god didn't god create michael jackson with his talents go back and listen to some of the youtube videos of michael jackson when he was a kid the kid's obviously very talented right was he using the talent the gift that god gave him for good or for evil for god's glory or for his own glory okay whose responsibility is that by saying no no god didn't give him that gift then you're ultimately taking away god's glory for the gift that he gave michael jackson just because michael jackson may have used his gift for evil or for his own glory instead of for god's glory doesn't make god any less glorious for giving the gift god should get the credit for the gifts he gives even if the recipient doesn't use the gift rightly the fact is god gave us the ability to make choices he gave us the ability to trust if we put our trust in muhammad or in confucius or in science instead of him whose fault is that it's ours not god's and what calvinists are ultimately doing whether they recognize it or not or whether they acknowledge it or not what they're ultimately doing is putting the blame back onto god for any time anyone ever pushed trusts in anyone but him because ultimately they're saying they don't really have the gift they don't really have the ability to do that they were born without the ability to believe in god giving them the very excuse that i think romans 1 20 takes away what better excuse is there than i was born hated by my maker i was born unable to believe the gospel what better excuse is there for unbelief than i was born unable to believe you tell me i can't think of a better excuse in that one um here's one here's a little polemic and i i questioned whether i was going to use this one on here but i couldn't resist i i wanted to not only put up softball questions you know i want to i want to be i want to deal with questions that are hard and and difficult questions or mean questions even and this is exactly the way it was worded so this is how it came to me here's the question i used to be a huge fan of yours until i recently came across your interview with andy stanley by the way this person actually was a patron they actually sent money to the ministry uh and recently they don't send money anymore okay so that's that's one of the reasons i wanted to respond to this okay i used to be a huge fan of your style i recently came across an interview with andy stanley i cannot even respect much less support someone who promotes someone who wants to throw out the entire old testament shame on you dr flowers how do you sleep at night well i sleep on my side like this sorry i should not been that was probably not appropriate um [Laughter] because you interview somebody on your podcast does not mean you endorse everything they have ever said or done period in a discussion okay that said i still claim andy stanley is a friend of mine i don't i don't denounce and throw out andy stanley as a heretic and unbeliever why because he did not say that we should throw out the old testament go listen to his interview with michael brown who questioned him about his statement about detaching from the old testament because i think andy gives a very reasonable even if you disagree with it it's a very reasonable explanation as to what he was intending to say in the context of that sermon and if you listen to the entire sermon context it makes a lot more sense too i did i went back and listened to it because i was a little troubled by what he said too but when i went back and listened to it in context i go oh okay i get what he's saying he's saying the same thing was paul was saying with not putting the yoke of the old covenant onto the gentiles don't make them circumcise themselves detach yourself from the old covenant law don't make them circumcise themselves in galatians that's what galatians was all about don't don't attach the law to the gentiles and make them follow the old testament laws and the old covenant laws paul paul was being accused of unhitching from the old testament in that sense and so again maybe and he even admitted he wasn't it was poorly worded and he should have worded it more clearly he even admitted that he came right and said i don't always word things just perfectly but some things are taken out of context and if you saw the context of what i was saying in that particular sermon i think it's more reasonable and michael brown agreed michael brown was michael brown is a hebrew scholar and loves the old testament okay and so for michael brown to have him on his program and to be content with his answer and by the end of it that should tell you something did you give him did you give him the benefit of the doubt did you try to listen to him fully again people who people who want me to throw people out of the kingdom because i disagree with them on secondary issues or are matters i i'm sorry if you want me to be that kind of a christian you're you're barking up the wrong tree i'm just not gonna ever be that kind of christian i i think god's grace is bigger than our secondary disagreements over these issues i think al muller john piper john mcarthur are my brothers in christ i think james white is my brother in christ he can be a little contentious but i think he's i think he's a genuine believer i actually like some of his stuff and his work the fact that i don't shout him down as a heretic and cast him out of the kingdom and if that upsets you then maybe i'm not the guy that you should be supporting i'm perfectly fine with you not supporting me i'm really okay with that god's got my back on this one i'm okay with that which really by the way this goes along with another question that i should throw in here because it's it's much in the same vein it's not about andy stanley but um here it is why do you allow open theists to share the stage with you and promote their heresies on your page and broadcast i'm as much against calvinism as you are but why don't you ban other faulty views from permeating your ministry um and he goes on he talks about brian wagner for example who is a friend dear friend by the way i don't know if brian will watch this or brian's watching this brian wagner is on the sociology 101 page his phd greek professor one of the earliest supporters of this ministry back when i first started on the podcast brian wagner is one of the most godly most humble kindhearted men i've ever had the pleasure of working with and he promotes a more dynamic perspective of theology i don't i i can't i'm not going to speak for him as with regard to all the different aspects of that he wouldn't consider himself an open theist but he does say he he he he promotes a more dynamic perspective of how god's knowledge works which when you read the best philosophical explanations of the dynamic perspective it sounds a lot like what i read when i read a molenist because it's getting very deep philosophically it's it's higher than my pay grade let me just put it that way it's it's philosophically very nuanced and i have to read the sentences sometimes ten times before my little peon brain can begin to grasp some of them okay it's one of the reasons i haven't just come out and said i'm a molinist because quite frankly i don't understand all of that molanism contains and now some some like tim stratton and others who have brains that can contain that kind of stuff or braxton hunter and others that are more philosophically trained than i am i i have them on the program and i oftentimes try to break out the things that they're saying and how they're saying how knowledge and time work and all those things that they're very complex issues um and to think that god's grace doesn't cover the difference that i have with brian wagner's view of dynamic omniscience and how that works are drew drew was on the side yet i think he has a similar perspective of that of dr wagner um drew is again one of the kindest nicest guys that you could ever work with missionary a lovely man and i'm just oh well drew you're probably not a christian because you believe differently than i do about how god's knowledge works within time really i just it just baffles me that no i'm not listen the people who are on my program i have calvinist on my program i have chris date a hard determinist who i consider a brother and a friend on my program and writes on our page quite consistently and writes comments and contends with us and i have brian wagner who's more of the dynamic perspective total opposite perspective i don't agree with either one of them fully on those perspectives but i don't cast either one of them out of the kingdom i don't think either one of them are going to hell because they have a different view philosophically of how god's knowledge works within time and space i just i i and i'm baffled i'm more baffled at people who are trying to get me to throw other christians out of the kingdom as if god's grace doesn't cover their philosophical differences and and i can disagree with them and i can still love them and i can still agree with them about other things and i i if okay i'll just be really really frank with you i someone who is so dogmatic about what they believe with regard to the secondary matters with regard to how philosophically all these things work together that they are that they are willing to say i am sure that that person's not a brother or sister in christ because they hold to that particular philosophical nuance perspective then that person i am more worried about going to heaven than i am about the person they're concerned with honestly i don't know how to say that nicely i hope that that came across in other words the kind of person who would who would think a man like brian wagner's not going to heaven because of his view of a dynamic omniscience i am more worried about that person's salvation than i am about brian's far more worried about it because a person who thinks brian wagner's going to hell because he holds to dynamic perspective or for that matter a person who thinks chris date is going to hell because he holds to determinism and a compatibilistic deterministic perspective i am more worried about your salvation than i am theirs somebody can i guess can clip that out of there and you play it all over the place and call me a heretic and throw me out of the kingdom i guess you can but here's the reason i'm more worried about your salvation if you're in that camp is because i can't imagine i can't imagine that you have experienced the kind of grace and the kind of forgiveness that i've experienced in my own walk with christ when i was a determinist myself i can't imagine someone thinking that someone's going to hell because they have a different philosophical perspective who's experienced the kind of grace that i've experienced in my walk in my life that god saw a wretch like me in all of my sin and all of my wrong philosophical and deterministic beliefs throughout my 20s and still loved me and still graced me at that time in my life if i had dropped dead at 25 i think i would have been in heaven i don't think god oh well you know he held to that calvinism stuff he's out i ain't gonna grace him now yeah he believed in jesus yeah he confessed his his sins and he trusted me and he prayed and read the scriptures and everybody held her that calvinism stuff block him off peter shut the gates what what grace is this i don't i don't that it's just baffling to me and people who hold that kind of dogmatic kind of almost tribalism you've got to hold to this doctrine and you'll just be in this little circle exactly like me and if you're out you're out i am more worried about your soul i i'm just being honest with you i'm more worried about your soul than i am about christ's soul or brian wagner soul i really am i'm just being honest with you i'm concerned for your soul because i don't know that you've experienced the kind of grace that i've experienced in my walk and i want you to experience that kind of grace because it is so more far-reaching than your little philosophical bubble of what you think about who god is i think his grace is bigger than that and the reason i can say things like that is because i see stories of people like rahab a prostitute an illiterate prostitute she was female and she was a prostitute i guarantee you she's not a reed in a pagan nation and she fears the god of israel that's that's it she heard about the god of israel she feared the god of israel and so she decides to hide the spies and she makes the hall of faith and god shows her she she had no idea about the triune nature of god or the hypostatic union or all the different apostles creeds all the different nuances of our doctrinal systematics what does she have she had a child-like faith and she feared the god of israel and god showed her mercy it's almost like we think god's out there just trying to look for ways to throw people out of the kingdom and i just think it's the opposite i think god is a merciful loving god who looks beyond our little peon mind and ways of trying to grasp all of reality in the world and i i praise god that his grace is so much bigger than our philosophical ramblings and our desire to try to explain him and how he works um and it and it's very very likely that i have many things wrong about the philosophical aspects of god's working very very very likely to be wrong about a lot of things and therefore i am depending totally upon his grace and mercy not upon all my right understanding and that's why i worry about your soul if you're in that camp because it makes me wonder are you do you really think salvation is based upon your finite understanding and logic and the way all that thing those things works because it seems as if that you're you don't think you're really depending upon the mercy of god and the grace of god for your salvation you're depending upon having a perfect right understanding doctrinal checklist in order for you to get in and if you just don't have the the check marks of all the doctrine checklist that one that one yeah yeah yeah you can get in if that's not works-based salvation i don't know what is but you have all the doctrinal checklist to get in that's why i'm more worried about your soul than i am that of chris state or brian wagner because i know chris date and brian wagner well enough though they are on the opposite spectrums of the philosophical debate i know their hearts as friends well enough to know they they are resting upon the grace and the mercy of god for their salvation so should we all so anyway i i hope that wasn't too harsh and but at the same time was clear uh for those who are who are wondering about what i s where i stand on those issues and if you're one of those people that just kind of feels like you just have to keep hounding me to cast more people out of the kingdom then you're barking up the wrong tree i i just don't i can't imagine that i will ever be um well do you really think so drew do you think do you really think i i don't want to get between you and chris do you really think chris date doesn't consider you as a brother i i can't i don't think that that's true um maybe he doesn't we i need i need to come down on chris state harder and i will if if you can give me a quote from chris state saying that he doesn't think you're a brother because you hold the dynamic perspective then um then i will i will i will reprehend my brother in in that in that belief um yeah derek says it well he says i don't hate calvinist i i don't even hate calvinism i hate how the reformed bubble has affected the discourse in the body well said i i agree i i i it's one of the things dr pritchett had mentioned in one of his broadcasts with me long ago where he talks about you know i so look forward to the day where we can have discussions without calvinism sticking in its head you know sticking their head in the room because he says you know it's one of those it's one of those it's really fun to have conversations with other people who just don't have the calvinistic baggage with them you know what i mean um and and sometimes it's you know i'm even guilty of that because i was a calvinist because i do this you know in this broadcast sometimes i can insert the calvinist line of thought or as the provisions perspective and your broadcast drew and uh eric were you kept saying i i hear the reformed or the calvinist in my head i can hear what they're going to be saying and then you would interject the interlocutor in there and that's what exactly what pritchett was saying how beautiful it will be when we get to a day where that that calvinist interlocutor isn't always interjecting determinism into these discussions so that we can have a discussion that's not plagued by a deterministic philosophy because i do think determinism does plague in a sense good conversations that we can have with regard to the discourse about relative doctrines and different beliefs anyway getting back to yeah but by the way some people are having comments about the dynamic and open theism don't just assume that you understand all that goes on with that the even even i have learned just in the little bit i have done some research on this topic that a lot of what open theists are accused of are not what the dynamic perspective is actually teaching from from my readings at least there are extremes of both perspective just like you have really high hard determinist on the calvinistic side and then you have even libertarian type of calvinist like we were talking about with randy alcorn the the the spectrum of even the calvinist is huge well there's a spectrum over here of these dynamic guys that's just a huge spectrum and of course the the people who disagree with that perspective are typically going to find the worst of the worst within that camp and put it out there as their representatives and so i i would just say be fair to this the groups that are out there by allowing them to represent their own perspectives in a way that's reasonable and a lot of a lot of what um you'll hear a lot of the guys talking about is is oftentimes uh blown out of of of proportion um nathan clark is asking leighton who's your favorite brother in the reform camp not for their sociology but for their labor in the kingdom paul washer paul washer is i mean well piper john piper um i mean i i know he does do a lot i mean he wrote that big book on providence just recently and he does do a lot of broadcast on calvinistic sociology i mean he's very consistent in that but his work in missions and um and reaching the world i mean he does a lot of work outside of that and um d.a carson a lot of these guys that are well-known calvinists do a lot of work in missionary efforts and reaching others too uh so just you know to to kind of paint it as if they're only you know promoting calvinistic doctrine that's all they're ever doing or they're not very evangelistic or very emissions minded it's just is obviously not true um let's see here sir dabs a lot says does the holy spirit provide knowledge how can the holy spirit provide contrary and separate truths the iron provide does not make sense if one is rejecting biblical truth where people aren't people aren't rejecting biblical truth because they disagree on the interpretation of that truth that's where free will comes in so when a determinist like chris date sits down and reads romans 9 for example and when a open or dynamic perspective like bill ron wagner sits down and reads romans 9 for example they're reading the same truth okay they're coming to different interpretations about that truth right and that doesn't necessarily mean that one's not i mean is purposely rejecting biblical truth they're just misinterpreting it and i think grace can cover some of those misinterpretations obviously and so that's what we're getting at hopefully that that answers your question um now on calvinism it makes less sense because on calvinism at least chris dates form of it as far as i can tell the determinist the capitalistic determinist ultimately has to has to believe that god is the one who determines the misinterpretation of brian wagner and leighton flowers apparently and that doesn't make much sense to me that it seems completely untenable for god to ordain for his own redeemed children to misinterpret large swaths of of truth free will is the only way in my mind at least my little peon brain that free will is the only way that i can rationalize or understand how born-again children of god could come to a misinterpretation of truth sir deb's like saying to misrepresent to or to misinterpret one must reject truth this is resisting the holy spirit well not necessarily um one can misinterpret i mean unless unless you believe sir dab's a lot which is a great name by the way this is funny sir dab's life unless you believe you always interpret the scripture rightly i mean i i can't imagine that anyone would say that they've always interpreted every scripture perfectly rightly all their entire life then you would have to agree that just because you did that at one time misinterpret the passage doesn't mean you were cognizantly or purposely misrepresenting or resisting the holy spirit you just misunderstood with the holy spirit saying the same thing if there's a big difference between um my child ignoring my command and misunderstanding my command sun go do x y z and my son heard me say x y z but he understood it to mean abc and he goes and does that and he legitimately misunderstood my command trying to obey me trying to do what's right he does the wrong thing but with the intention of doing what i've said that's a big difference from him just not listening to me and not understanding or there's a big difference between those two things so hopefully that that helps all right let's move to some of these other questions that i did not get to um here's one you've played the clip from derek webb several times and i was wondering how calvinists have responded to that video it seems devastating to their worldview and i'm very curious as to how they reply again that may be something you'll have to ask calvinist um it seems like the times where like i played a clip of that in my debate with uh webbin joel webben um and you know he didn't address the particular clip in in general um but i guess a calvinist would just have to say you know just like a provisionist can eventually become a atheist and say bad things about provisionism so too a calvinist can reject calvinism and eventually become an atheist and say bad things about calvinism um i guess the the problem with that answer would be that obviously on calvinism if if that's happening it's happening by divine decree not by free will and so we can always appeal to okay with a provisions becomes an atheist and he speaks out against god based upon his beliefs against provisionistic uniquely provisionistic theology then we can't we don't have we can't we wouldn't say god's destined him to do that or god's decreed for him to do that in some way we would say well his free will you mean he his responsibility there and it's his own responsibility as to what he's experienced in life and what he's doing it's his fault not not something that god failed to do for him so to be a difference between our the ways we would handle things like that um well this this one has to do with um the the the show that um eric and drew just did on pornography and free will which is one i listened to this morning and here's the question that uh that came to me he says i heard your testimony dealing with pornography as a young man while you still held to calvinism and i can relate i fell into the same kind of fatalistic rationalizations and for those that don't are not aware i've shared testimonies in the past of back when in my 20s struggling with certain addictions certain tendencies that many young men if not all deal with on some level or another and and how devastating it was at least for me and i'm not trying to project this onto all calvinists by any means but for me when when i was struggling with an addiction and i held to a calvinistic philosophy then how do i deal with choices that i've made in the past so if i've i've looked at pornography if god's decreed whatsoever comes to pass and my looking at pornography has come to pass or my addiction has come to pass then i have to believe to be consistent that my addiction is a part of god's decree that the reason i have this addiction is because god determined for me to have this addiction he decreed for me to have it for his own glory no less and there's nothing more than what i mean everybody every addict is looking for rationalization for their addiction that's what they're looking for they're looking for excuses for their addiction so that they can stay in their addiction without repercussion and without guilt and so well yes i cheated on my wife welds because she withheld sex from me and therefore i'm justified in my cheating of my wife everyone is looking for rationalizations for their bad behaviors and if i can find a good excuse for my bad behavior then i will have to deal with the guilt of my bad behavior right same thing well if you're looking for a rationalization what better rationalization is there well god's given me this thorn in the flesh as i had one christian counselor tell me uh who's it from a calvinistic background god gives you a thorn in the flesh to keep you humble also what did that addiction become for me oh god's the one who's ordained for this sin in my life to keep me humble like the thorn in paul's flesh and therefore this is the way god's keeping me humble by decreeing for me to deal with this addiction and this so this is god's way of keeping me humble and keeping me down to earth and realizing how my humility he's keeping me grounded with this addiction no worse thing in the world for a person who needs to overcome an addiction it needs to get out of the addiction to think god's the one who puts you in that addiction for his own glory and for your good that that's all that's all an addict needs to stay in their addiction and so what's one of the reasons the first step of the 12-step program for addiction recovery and those kinds of things is what uh hello my name is so-and-so and i am an alcoholic what what are you doing you're owning your addiction it's me it's my it's all my responsibility it's why i did that thing with jordan peterson it's owning your your choices it's owning your own responsibility so when you looked at pornography or when you did whatever it is that you that we all deal with addictions and sins of some sort our own lives in our own journeys when you did that thing whatever it was do you believe you could have and should have done otherwise or do you believe that you did that by decree in other words god is ultimately the one who determined that you would do that thing because how you answer that question well i think will make a huge impact on your recovery from that thing because if you believe i think as first corinthians 10 13 says that god always provides a way out when you're tempted that means he's provided the grace that's sufficient for you to resist that temptation so when you don't resist that generation it's not on god it's not because god withheld the grace you needed it's not because god didn't want you or desire for you or provide the means by which you could have resisted that temptation but ultimately where the calvinistic system has to land which is reflected in several discussions and debates i've had with calvinist on that very topic when i'm asking that question is why do you sin as a christian sometimes if not free will god decreed for you to sin god determined your sin how does that help you in your daily life how is that tenable how is that workable in your daily life um and so this particular questioner is saying i can relate i have the same kind of fatalistic rationalizations when i was a calvinist it hurt me in my own uh my own journey and then it goes on to say but to be honest even after leaving calvinism i struggle with this addiction what advice do you have for me and i get this i get this this kind of question pretty regularly i mean i have three sons of my own um i've been in youth ministry for years you can imagine you know when i i'm very vulnerable and open about my own struggles and my own problems and i am in my personal life ministry as well as on the podcast i you know that's the thing uh sin grows in secrecy write that down somewhere brothers and sisters sin grows in secrecy um it it is killed by light sin is killed by the light it grows in secrecy it loves darkness um i'm reminded of that old veggietale um thing i used to watch veggietales with the kids and there's that whole lie thing and this plant when it was in the darkness it would just grow and grow and get huge it was only when you took it out of the closet and put it in the light that it would start shriveling up because sin survives in secrecy and it's only when you bring it into light that's one of the reasons i'm very open about my own struggles and my own sins because i know that as soon as i become you know secretive about my struggles that's when sin has a bigger foothold in my life and that's what i teach my my sons and my daughter for that matter um and teaching them that you know you're gonna have sins you're gonna have struggles that's just inevitable you're gonna struggle but you don't have to be secretive about it and and that's one of the things and i won't say which son or which how this all happened but just one of the most proud most proud moments that i ever had with one of my my sons was was him just coming to me and saying hey here's what i'm dealing with here's what i'm going through actually two different conversations with two different sons had the same kind of conversations where they were just really open with me with what they were struggling with just like oh dad hey i did this this and this and i don't know what to do you know just wondering what that to me is some of my proudest moments with my kids because they are so much more mature than i was at that age in my in my own journey that i couldn't ever imagine having that kind of open almost even casual kind of conversation with my own father to just say hey this is what i dealt with or this is what i was doing and that i was able to promote that kind of foster that kind of relationship with my my sons to that they felt like they could have that kind of honest candid conversation with me it's one of the proudest moments i've had as a father when they were that open with me about their own struggle um and because sin doesn't survive in secrecy um and so my advice i guess my my advice to to you or for any of you who are watching that may be struggling with secret sins in your own life is don't be secret about them no i know it's easier said than done but you don't have to and i'm not saying hang out your dirty laundry for everyone to see it you've got you've got to be careful about who you share everything with i mean you you have there are safe friends for you to share things with and everyone needs that person in their life persons in their life who know them fully but love them completely let me let me say that again let that sink in people who know you fully and lovely love you completely now nobody knows you more fully than god and loves you more fully and completely than god but those relationships that are as close to that relationship as you can find that you have with christ who of friends who can know you fully and still love you completely and and love you unconditionally those are the kinds of friendships that are going to help to replace the need for that addiction addictions often start and thrive because of a lack of connection and so when you have proper connections with your spouse proper connections with friends guys need guy friends especially and girls need girlfriends especially in these kinds of relationships accountable relationships friendships where you're vulnerable with that person to the degree of almost be embarrassing in any any other walking context but for that relationship it's perfectly normal and you've got to have those kinds of friendships and you've got to have those kinds of people that you you establish that kind of relationship with now i say that and then i also recognize and understand that that's not easy to get it's that you don't just you can't just walk out in your backyard and find one of those kinds of friends i get it um and oftentimes what happens at least in my experience is that one of you watching this program you hear me saying these things and you connect with me and i'm just a face on a screen that quite honestly i can't be your friend that way for most of you obviously um i'd love to be i would love to be able to have that kind of time and insight to be to be able to be your buddy in that kind of intimate relationship where i could be that sounding board for you but a computer screen on youtube is not going to do that for you guys and so some sometimes what happens is you connect with that that's what that's the phenomenon i was talking about jordan peterson a lot of young men connecting with him and he's talking about this is because youtube is largely young men watching youtube and he said that's one of the reasons i've really connected with young men and i'm just saying things that they need to hear a father say to them i'm saying the kinds of things that they they should have been taught uh by their own by their own you know culture and fathers and and so he's he's growing so much in popularity with young men especially because i think they're connecting with a source that's on a screen um instead of with a real relationship and so some of you will hear these kinds of things and you'll go you'll be drawn to it okay there's a probably older man i mean i'm in my mid-40s some of you may be older than me but some of you as younger men hear someone like this and you go oh man i connect with that and i need that kind of vulnerable relationship that kind of person i could be vulnerable with and so you write me and so i have these kinds of testimonies and things online and then i get a thousand different comments from the young men and my heart just breaks i want to eric and drew you guys were talking about this in your program where you you're like hey we would love to be that for you guys we'd love to you know reach out to us talk to us and you'll get those kinds of comments but you'll you know as well as i do drew and eric you can't possibly be uh that kind of person for every single one of those men who write into you or those people who can reach out to you it's just not possible for you to be that kind of person to them and so that's where the local body comes in that's where that's where your connection to that local church is so important brothers and sisters is where you you find that place where you are present and active in studying the scriptures and finding relationships where you can develop and cultivate those kind of relationships that grow into those those kind of lifelong friendships where you're vulnerable and and and uh responsible in that relationship with someone who's able to hold you accountable to that kind of that kind of level of relationship and so i i would really highly recommend uh you know some interaction with other brothers and sisters in a local context to be able to find that kind of thing so i i think that'll be helpful um all right going back to the questions live questions man live you guys like 150 comments since i opened this back up again there's no way uh i can't get to all of these all right um i'm just kind of just kind of scrolling through okay what is the difference between study desk is asking the question what is the difference between god's will and what god is predestined um well we've talked a lot about predestination um two major points in scripture it's mentioned is romans chapter 8 and ephesians chapter 1. both of them are about what god has destined beforehand for those who are in christ jesus it's not about god predetermining who will believe in jesus or not it's about god predetermining what will come of those who believe in christ you will be conformed to the image of god's son romans 8 you will be made holy and blameless ephesians 1. okay so those who put their faith in christ will become conformed to the image of christ and be made holy and blameless that's basically what predestination is talking about god's will is god's will what what what is god's desire what is what is his will what we pray god god's will to be done here on earth as it is in heaven which seems what somewhat of a superfluous prayer if god's will is always meticulously carried out exactly the way he scripted it to be carried out in eternity past why would we be praying god's will to be done here in earth as it is in heaven if his will is done exactly on earth as it is in heaven um i think that that verse alone acknowledges that there is sometimes on this earth things that are done against the will of god and so i i think you have to acknowledge those kinds of things um let's see scrolling back through um pardon silence and i'm gonna get a drink while it's silent but i'm just looking through some of the questions here on the side yet um feel free to repost your questions now that i am back looking okay here's here's i'm scrolling back through all right um raptor asked this question can you express doctrine of salvation without implying calvinist i'm thinking maybe you're asking can i express a doctrine of salvation without talking about calvinism or without bringing calvinism into it um well of course um calvinist can too by the way in fact i've done several programs where i've read from rc sproul uh and others the apostles creed and others sources that are explaining our common uh denominator of christian is the belief in faith in jesus christ as our lord and savior trusting in god um that that the doctrine of salvation is not necessarily have does not necessarily have to have anything to do with calvinism provisionism is that we can have a doctrine of salvation that is common between those two groups without getting into the nuanced differences between those two perspectives and that's one of the reasons i don't throw them out you know the kingdom and one of the reasons that i push back pretty strongly against people who try to say my particular sociology is the gospel like calvinism is the gospel that kind of stuff push back on that pretty pretty vehemently for obvious reasons yeah yeah exactly healing comes when we quit hiding kim kim mentions and that that's very true all right just i'm reading through questions here um dustin asked the question how does a provisionist read second thessalonians 2 13 well let's just put it in the screen here i think i have a short broadcast on second thessalonians 2 13. um if someone wants to look that up and put it into the the broadcast uh feel free to do that um while i pull this up here real quick uh 213. all right let me put it into the screen here i gotta share it pardon me one second just put it in blue later bible all right but we are bound to give thanks always to god for you brethren love to the lord because god hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the spirit and belief and the truth um interestingly uh drew uh eric you talked about this as well uh in this morning's broadcast that i was listening to and rightly pointed out that notice it is through belief in the truth that you're chosen in other words you're elected through through meanings that means by which one's elected so you're not elected arbitrarily you're not elected unilaterally before the world began you the people being spoken of here you are elected through belief in truth through faith that you're chosen not your chosen unconditionally before you're ever created but also keep in mind that thessalonica is predominantly a gentile congregation that paul is writing to and oftentimes paul uses the pronouns us versus you us the jewish apostles brought you this gospel and we praise god that he has chosen you because you got to remember the gentiles are being chosen they're told they're not chosen the gentiles are being told you can't get into heaven unless you become a jew you've got to be circumcised become a jew because jews are the chosen ones you're not chosen and paul is trying to remind him from the beginning this has been the plan of god the plan of god has always been that you are to be grafted in it's always been about you being chosen too so he's trying to ensure his gentile audiences that yes they too are chosen and how do we know they're chosen because look you believe the truth you're being sanctified by the spirit the holy spirit came upon you when you believed just like it came upon the jews when we believed so we praise god that he has chosen you not that he has arbitrarily picked you you and you and not you you and you over there no but we praise god that he has chosen you the gentiles and how has he chosen you same way he chose us through faith in the gospel through faith uh belief in the truth so hopefully that that clarifies that particular text again there's a lot more detail that i go into in other broadcasts for those that are that are interested all right um scrolling back through here dustin says okay i'll be a provisionist good welcome aboard um thank you for the super chat dylan the dingo dylan the dingo i think i tried okay question have you ever thought about covering the beliefs of mormonism job as witnesses etc in regard to how they believe and understand salvation i'd love to hear your thoughts and full videos again i mentioned that earlier is about somebody asked earlier about why i don't cover other sociological views of different differing world religions and those kinds of things and there are occasions where i will touch on mormonism or other groups catholicism and things like that um when those those views comes up but that's just not been the lane of this particular broadcast and the purpose of this particular broadcast and why it was created um it's not that i'm necessarily against those things but i don't consider my expert on mormonism or that of jehovah's witnesses mike winger has a lot of really good material on that and there's others who i know have made a lot more headway in those particular studies because that's been their particular field of study and so um i if i were to do that i would probably bring a mormon someone who is an apologist that confronts mormonism or jehovah's witnesses onto the program as an expert in the field because i am not one um i know a little bit i've studied a little bit i've read a little bit probably as much as many of you have and so that's not been my area of study our expertise and so in order to do a broadcast on that i would either have to do a lot of study in order to present my findings or i'd have to bring in an expert to do a broadcast like that and quite honestly a lot of that just has to do with time restraints um just the time that i have in my real job in my day-to-day life a lot of times doesn't allow for a lot of extra studying going a lot more deeper which i was covering earlier in that same question okay all right let me uh i'm looking through the sidechat here making sure i miss don't miss any questions we're getting uh close to the two hour mark and that is just about my limit um let's see here's one comment stephen says in your james white debate can you read your provisionist perspective like he did or is the line by line that he used a flawed method i'm not sure what that means stephen to be honest with you um can you read your precision like he did i think what you're trying to say is like i did in my book where i just i go line by line read the verse and then tell you what i think it means from a provisionist perspective and that that's what i i did more of that kind of line by line commentary in my book um i didn't do it that way necessarily in the debate where i just go verse 1 verse 2 verse 3 but as many of you saw in one of the recent broadcasts i actually did go pretty much in order from verses 3 and following um after uh on the pi you can see as you can see on the broadcast on the powerpoints i just had the verses up on the screen instead of reading them and some people who watch james white's video and doesn't don't see the powerpoints up on the screen aren't following i guess my commentary very well and and you can argue that i just wasn't very clear in my my presentation or not i don't it doesn't really matter but my my uh point in that debate was um when you're giving a debate presentation you're not doing exegesis on the stage you're doing ex jesus to prepare for your presentation just like when you give a sermon uh you're you're not giving an ex to jesus during a sermon typically you're giving the findings of your exegetical work it takes a lot of time and effort energy to do exegesis of a text and so when you have 20 20 minutes to confront a particular doctrine and you're in their favorite proof text a very difficult profoundly controversial chapter um you only have 20 minutes you're trying to focus on the points of contention which is why i focused much of my time on who the interlocutor was in romans 9. and the major points of contention is the lump of clay what's he referring to there because if i can undermine the calvinist presumption that the interlocutor is an armenian or a first century synergist then you undermine their their entire their entire interpretation and understanding that they're not cut off arbitrarily before the world ever began but these are people who are cut off in their unbelief who god is using in their own belief to bring about his purposes of redemption and they take and they can be grafted back in if they leave their own belief once you understand that then calvinism's interpretation of romans 9 doesn't have a real place and that's why i focused on those those points but if you're wanting a line by line like here's here's the verse and here's my commentary of that verse with cross references and all those kinds of things then this would be a better place to go because you can see the work that's done to get to that point versus a 20-minute presentation for a debate opener um all right thank you for the super chat franco smith uh is your view of time deterministic if god created time and then enter time as we mean craig puts it time is determined you believe in determinism but act like you don't um i'm not sure if that's a question or a statement franco i'm trying to trying to follow is your view of time deterministic i i would not i would say no i don't believe my view of time is deterministic but i'm not sure what you mean by that you go on to say if god creates time and then interest time as william craig's put it william craig puts it time is determined again uh i i would i would maybe contend with some of your language there i'm not sure i'm understanding where you're coming from on that particular point would you believe in determinism but act like you don't well even on william craig's perspective of of i guess molanism the reason god knows what you will choose to do is because you choose to do it not vice versa in other words if you choose differently then god would know differently and so the reason in other words it's a logical order versus the causal order of decree or knowledge the reason god knows it is because you chose it you don't choose it because god knew it it makes sense and so god's knowledge is based upon what you choose you don't choose based upon what he knows you will choose so you're making the determination on modernism you are the determiner of your choice on molinism even god knows your choice because you chose that if you chose something else then that's what god would know because knowledge is not causal difference between certainty and necessity god can certainly know you will choose to eat a hamburger tomorrow that doesn't mean you will necessarily eat a hamburger tomorrow i mean in other words you're not determined to eat the hamburger tomorrow it's your free choice as to whether you eat the hamburger tomorrow and if you didn't hit the hamburger god would know it but the fact that you will eat a hamburger and the fact that god knows it is not determinative again i know it's philosophical to deep but hopefully that kind of hits hits the point um all right yeah um drew's pointing out there's my ex jesus on the youtube page as well um you don't have to go buy the book if somebody's concerned about buying the book a lot of my material is already available for you online and broadcasts and those kinds of things too so if you don't want to go and buy the book of the potter's promise which is pretty cheap on amazon you can you can always find my material online as well uh rachel thank you uh he said i found a sermon or two of yours a while back not sure how old they are wanted to let you know it's wonderful to listen to yeah i i preached for three two or three years um at first baptist church of richardson um every couple of months i would fill in i was kind of a teaching pastor there for several years and they recorded all of those and put them online so you can type in first baptist richardson leighton flowers and you'd probably get itunes or whatever it is they have it on um several probably 50 sermons or so i'm guessing they're on there i don't know how many are on there now i also did a lot with um hunters glenn baptist church and plano they and which they did record them and put them online i think they're still up as far as i know um the oaks baptist church down in grand prairie same kind of thing i was interim there for 18 months i think it was sunday after sunday and many of them had uh broadcast i'm not sure if those are stolen because that was a while back but yeah you could search my name and look for sermons and there's a lot of audio sermons that are out there that many of them don't mention most of them don't mention calvinism at all i know some people because they search my name and see so much about calvinism think this is all i talk about you can actually find out a lot of sermons that aren't even about calvinism online if you're looking for that kind of material all right just looking through here one second is it on kindle yes it is on kindle okay uh jocelyn rodriguez is asking when it states people who haven't heard about christ or without an excuse due to the conscience the law written on our hearts does that mean they can seek god um well it depends on what you mean by can they can they seek god it there's a difference between responding to god who's making himself known to us through different means of revelation and someone who's just just naturally just like seeking god out on their own like they're on an island and they're just looking around for god um there's a big difference between that plus some people i think over hyper literalize romans 3 with regard to the quotes from psalm 14 because the quote from psalm 14 is actually talking about those who don't believe in god this is the full he's talking about the fool who says in their heart there is no god and he's given a description of asp under the lips and all these kinds of hyperbolic kind of hyperbolic kind of statements about how sinful these unbelievers are in their unbelief because there's many passages of scriptures that talk about the longing for a creator and god and even even studies reveal through experience that people even tribes and all these other places have this this longing for and desire for knowing more about their maker and the designer and you come across a garden you're looking for a gardener right i mean it's a natural tendencies that we have and so i i think this hyper literalizing that no one seeks god i think what paul's point is no one seeks god in such a way as to merit their salvation no one fulfills the demands of law as in a way to merit their salvation so therefore your only hope is to believe in christ who did that for you and so the point of paul is not to say that that there's no lost person out there who's ever wondered about or sought after knowing more about their maker because obviously that's just not true and many other scriptures would contradict that kind of reading and what he's saying is no one seeks god in such a way as to find him and be saved according to their own efforts and their own works all fall short and and i think that's the point that paul is getting to therefore your only hope is to believe in christ um steven's asking how often do you do the question and answer i just happen to be on i haven't heard you before wrote my journal some of stuff that i need to find that would like to promote your next time your question again the one of the downsides with with someone like mike winger for example i was mentioned mike winger earlier for those have been watching this entire time um mike does this full time now and he's really good about uh broadcasting uh and scheduling when he's going to do his live i think he does a weekly live question answer and he has his broadcast all scheduled out is when he's going to do them and he's very coordinated and organized one of the reasons he's probably really a lot more successful than i ever hoped to be as far as the number of subscribers or people watching and you should mike's stuff is awesome um but one of the benefits of doing that full time is you can schedule things like that in in your schedule um for any of you that know the reason that i do broadcast just sporadically when i do them is because this is a side thing that i just do in my free time um and so when i get a time slot open which just just happened to open up for me this afternoon i decided an hour before doing this that i was going to do it and so it wasn't something i announced caleb didn't know about it even and he works with me and so it's not something uh that i i coordinated and planned it's just something that i jumped on and and decided to do today um and so that's one of the that's one of the downsides of doing this as a pastime some of you would you know go stream shows on netflix or some of you might go watch a sporting event or some of you might go golfing i go and do a podcast i mean i go or go talk theology or something like that with somebody i'm a theology geek and so that's this is the kind of stuff i do in my past time and so um unfortunately the downside of that is that i can't really tell you hey the next time i'm going to do a question and answers on this date at this time because some of my mike winger could do that for you because he has a really good schedule and he does what he's doing more full-time and i don't i don't have that uh that luxury at the moment nor would i want it like i mentioned before i love what i do i love my job and i have no plans to stop stopping doing what i'm doing with texas baptists so i love that um thank you the study desk appreciate your kind words um again just scrolling through all right tony's asking a good question here y'all can read it while i take a drink excuse me all right don't yes do you like david the psalmist hold to that you were conceived in sin you're also guilty from birth notice that it's a prophet's own terms leaving out the loaded terms well there's some debate on how you would interpret those passages from david um some even talk about being conceived in sin might be referencing his mother's sin not his own in the way he was conceived and the way often times that was looked some off i'll also talk about how it's reference to youth or infancy from my infancy i have done this or from my my youth i have done this that these are oftentimes poetic words and not necessarily talking about literally from the womb that this is happening but at a very young age this is when i begin to do this or begin to do that those kinds of things um also i'm not sure where the word guilt is used and and which scriptures you're referencing with regard to guilt um but i i actually agree with the book by dr adam harwood with regard to the spiritual condition of infants and i do not believe that we are guilty because of what adam did um i used to i actually used to hold to that belief even when i was not even after coming out of calvinism i still at some for some time held to imputed guilt uh and only later after reading his uh his work on the subject and really diving into the scriptures did i begin to move away from the inherited guilt concepts because i don't believe that the scriptures support that and so i would i really highly encourage you to read adam harwood's book he's got he's got a smaller book it's called born centers question mark um that's a that's a smaller more of a pamphlet and he's got another larger book that's called the spiritual condition of infants that's really really good and i've not seen any if anybody knows of any refutation by calvinist of his work i've not seen any any credible refutation um or even attempt at a refutation at his work and it is a very biblically strong exegetical commentary on on that subject that's a lot stronger than i've seen from any calvinist who have tried to argue the other perspective and so i i mean i know adam's not a debater um i mean i don't think he is i'm not not talk to him about this particular point but i'd love to see a discussion between someone like adam harwood and someone trying to promote a true maybe more staunch augustinian view of original guilt and the concept of idea that we are born guilty due to what adam did um because there's so much uh so many passages of scripture which seemed to fly in the face of that concept uh after after reading that book it's just it's it's it's not just a little bit i just thought it was like it kind of could go but either way after reading that book i'm just going it is so lopsidedly difficult to believe that we are guilty because of of adam's sin um but anyway i instead of reading that book to you or i'll just say go and read it for yourself all right let me read um okay is dr flowers is calvin's institute's blasphemous if not what is um calvin's institutes constitute doctrines arranging i mean so many different vast array of subjects sprinkled within it are calvinistic quote unquote sociological calvinistic deterministic type of statements that i would contend with and so for example his section on prayer is some of the most beautiful writings on prayer that i've ever had the pleasure of reading and so i i don't just say hey you know the whole institutes are just they're just trash and it's garbage no actually just like i would read any book i would read it with hopefully a well-intended heart to say what's true and what's not weed out the bad and find the good i think some of the things he says are wrong obviously and against what i believe god teaches in the scriptures and we've pointed those things out and so that that's the way i used to confront those things okay rachel's saying i'm going off my husband's comment above i have a question i'm not sure what comment that was um i have a question how did the subject of your no longer being a calvinist come up between friends and family i haven't shared with mine yet and i'm very hesitant um i i get into that a little bit in my book the the potter's promise kind of talk about that a little bit um my parents are not calvinist and never never have been um and so when i when i came home from college a calvinist for the first time and my church was actually not because of me necessarily but my church was going through a split over the doctrines just happened to be happening at the same time uh somebody say providence right i joined in with that group of calvinist within the church and and ended up kind of splitting off and so it kind of came out just naturally because it became a controversial topic in my church and i sided with the calvinist side in that controversy and you know split my brother's family and i we were all calvinist at the time and we split off with that group and so it kind of came out because of the necessity of it coming out due to the conflict within our church um and and so the con the country the conflict with my parents wasn't real harsh because my parents weren't real dogmatically against calvinism they were real wise uh to you know continue just to say to us things like well you know keep an open mind you know and continue to read getting to study you know we don't we don't agree necessarily with that particular view but we understand why you do and you know that's okay and they would just kind of things like that he my mom is even to this day my mom is one of those people who just does not like anything that would come between her and her family in relationships and so um we've got people in our family who you know politically disagree with each other on different topics and theologically disagree with people in everyday and she's always real careful to kind of say let's not you know when we're all together let's just keep the conversation about those things that aren't so aren't so dividing because she wants to keep you know unity in the family because that's that's her high priority as as mom in that family and so uh she's she's real good about that uh and and so i don't know if that helps any rachel but hopefully hopefully it does and thanks for the nice comments on the side i'm not going to pull all those in but there's a lot of nice comments on the side dustin thank you for your super chat he says i recently became a provisionist after reading the potter's promise actually i i lost my job because of it haha thanks for your ministry so i'm sorry dustin i've had that happen several times in fact i've had several pastors uh who have have had to leave their church because of leaving calvinism uh if you're you're employed by a reformed church or a calvinistic church then oftentimes it you know it requires a change of venue um and that's when you know you're being really objective and really honest about it because when when you're willing to go against the people who are paying your paycheck you know you you aren't you're not allowing yourself to be influenced by that and that that's that takes a lot of courage and it can be very difficult especially if you're supporting a family off of that and so uh dustin i don't know if you if you want to share more feel free to share in the side chat are you a pastor or a minister because i'm getting i'm getting people all the time asking for hey do you know anybody who's a good provisionist who would pastor our church i get comments like that all the time so i'll be glad to promote you on here to say hey we got a good provisionalist pastor who's looking looking now he lost his he lost his job so let me know if i can help you out in that way because i know i know the feeling um anyway moving on here uh indiana indiana james cool name it's like indiana jones but different indiana james do you have like a hat and a whip because if my name was indiana james i'd have to get one anyway sorry i love indiana jones um anyway dr flowers how would you explain your position on the doctrine of original sin i know you said earlier that you weren't born guilty but did the fall create any natural propensities to to want to sin yeah um again adam harwood's book explains that really well and i do have if you type in the nature of man at citrology 101 go to the youtube page type in layton flowers or sociology 101 and type in the nature of man the very first video you'll see i walk through the doctrine my doctrine of original sin so to speak if you want to call it that um because we we do believe as the and i quote from the bible say the message which is you know southern baptist denominations baptist faith and message i quote from other well-known sources and commentaries that that that support the perspective that i hold to and um and hopefully that would give you a more clear answer than what you know what you might hear right now but hopefully that you do he does you do have a whiff at a that's good indiana awesome uh let's see other questions is predestination biblical absolutely predestination is biblical um if if you mean is calvinistic is the calvinistic version or calvinistic calvinistic predestination biblical no um but i do believe in predestination i don't believe in calvinistic predestination i believe god has destined beforehand what will come of those who are in christ through faith but he doesn't predestine who will believe in christ so it's a big difference between destiny beforehand what will come of those who are in christ through faith and predetermining who will and won't believe in christ big difference between those two things and sometimes they're conflated and that that's part of the problem in short a lot of videos out there on that if you're if you're interested all right again just looking through some of these yeah jocelyn uh you're i think you reposted that question i i i addressed that a little bit earlier if you missed that jocelyn you may want to rewind when this is over with you might be able to find that say leighton since you chose to be saved how do you know you're saved well i didn't i didn't choose to be saved i choose i chose to put my trust in jesus and so i know i'm saved based upon the fact that i believe that god is trustworthy and that he will fulfill his promises so my salvation rests upon the choice of god to save those who trust in him and i trust in him so hopefully that answers your question what's your favorite color i've always said blue but you know i don't know i don't really have a favorite color i guess let's see real quick while i'm reading through your questions let me play this little uh commercial about trinity so that i can read through your questions so it's not silent so y'all watch this are you looking for a solid theological education professor leighton flowers is now teaching online courses for trinity college of the bible and theological seminary with over 45 years of established respected and proven excellence in academic ministry training trinity has provided education for hundreds of ministers now serving around the globe get your degree online at trinity or audit any one of the many courses offered to improve your ministry skills trinity is flexible to meet the demands of any minister get a quality education on your schedule at an affordable price discounts are offered for podcast listeners use the promo code flowers when you enroll online for more details go to soteriology101.com and click on the classroom link at the top of the page we invite you to join professor flowers in fulfilling the legacy of trinity college of the bible and theological seminary all right like commercials that give me a chance to kind of regroup uh dustin did answer and he says he the church did not fire fire him to be clear he's a church planter god bless you we need more church planters that's a noble calling he says he's with michael rountree at wellspring now um uh michael rountree is a friend of ours that i think um uh that remnant in it remnant radio that they work with so dustin glad you landed with those guys those are good brothers as far as i know uh so glad that you've found a place to land there um daniel is asking since the question was asked how do you know you're saved my question is how does a calvinist know he is one of the elect considering the calvinistic teaching of uh effingham grace um yeah that's always a good question this is one of the arguments that i've made several times is that um i i don't think if if you believe god is the type of god who would lead people to believe they're chosen and that they're saved when they're really not because calvinists admit just like anybody else would that there are people who think they're saved who really aren't well the only reason they could think they're saved when they're really not is if god decreed for them to think they're saved when they're really not which is what uh calvinists refer to as that that f investment grace that that kind of concept or idea that people believe they're truly christians when they're really not if you believe god's the kind of god that would lead people to believe that when they're really not then how do you know he's not doing that to you i don't believe god's the kind of god that would do that to people and so believing in the trustworthiness of god is paramount to believing and trusting in god um and the analogy i've used before is like with my own relationship with my wife i believe i'm married to her and i believe it's a real relationship because i have a level of trust in the character and the goodness of my wife now if you know using supplements suppositional analogies and things like this this is obviously far-fetched but if if someone were to come to me and say leighton uh your wife actually has many many husbands and here's video evidence of it i mean here's in incontrovertible evidence that this is true that your wife has actually used many other men to get their money and to do things against them but that really weren't that really aren't loved by her but they just she just manipulated to think that they were loved by her in order to get things from them that she needed then it would automatically draw doubt into me to think how do i know she's not doing that to me it could be true that my relationship with her is real and genuine but if it can be shown that she has other relationships with other men that aren't real and genuine and that she would do that kind of thing to them then how do i know that she's not doing that to me it would create doubt my relationship because she would not be a trustworthy individual anymore in my eyes and so too when people come along and teach from the calvinistic vantage point that god somehow decrees for certain people to believe that they're saved when they're really not then how do you know you're not one of those people and it create can create doubt within people as to whether they're not they're truly elect or not so uh that's one of the reasons that i don't think calvinists if if they're being consistent within their calvinism can truly have assurance of salvation because they can't possibly know whether they've been chosen for reprobation or salvation until they actually get to heaven if god does that kind of thing to people uh caleb's asking about he doesn't have any money but passionate study theology what can you do any suggestions please um well trinity does have um you know a lot of ways to to apply and get help you can talk to jonathan dr pritchett there about um ways in which you can learn online and online education um obviously even just watching men like mike winger this podcast and other podcasts that have good solid theological teaching is a way to learn theology without necessarily taking courses someone made the joke if you ever want to get a theology education just tell a calvinist you don't believe in calvinism and you'll get a free lecture so from their perspective at least you can learn theology from a calvinist if you just disagree with them um all right what's the name of the book about being born and said okay yeah adam harwood's book um this spiritual condition of infants adam harwood the spiritual condition of infants is the name of that book all right i am going to bring this to a close uh fabio asked man that's a that's a that's a that's a long one um why did god say he hated esau before he was born he does not say he hated his soul before he was born read it again he doesn't say that um is it because he knew esau's future and decisions but influence progressed in the unbeliever let me let me let me point you out to something fabio if you'll go to uh the sociology the youtube page and you'll type in um sociology 101 romans 9 or jacob i loved you so i hated one of those phrases you'll have several videos there's options and i encourage you to watch one of those videos and it takes you through what paul was getting at with quoting from malachi and it takes you through the interpretive options of what he's talking about between the concept of declaring his hatred for the as reference to esau because of their rebellion they attacked israel as a result of the wrath he was having on that nation for their attack i will bless those who bless you i will curse those who curse you he says well they cursed the promise they cursed the nation of israel so they're not arbitrarily or unilaterally just picked for hatred before they're born it's a reference to a nation of people which was commonly referred to as their national head so esau i hated wasn't talking about hating a child before they were born for no apparent reason i understand why it's interpreted that way in its context but that's not what paul was getting at and i go more in depth obviously in the book the potter's promise on that and on several videos online if you go watch those all right a lot of other questions but my throat's getting sore despite the coffee and um and it's been over two hours and so that's a marathon for for any podcaster but you guys who've been complaining about all the shorts because you've been complaining a lot of you send me messages what are you gonna do another long broadcast you know these are the short ones out no you're not doing a long broadcast well here you go here's a two hour marathon for you so uh hopefully that that will uh that will suffice for those of you who like the longer the longer versions so god bless you guys go now share christ and show love [Music] so [Music] so [Music] you

Channel: Soteriology101

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Rating: 4.878788 out of 5

Keywords: Soteriology 101, soteriology, leighton, flowers, calvinism, provisionism, Q&A, questions, live

Id: LfPtui0S2tk

Length: 140min 7sec (8407 seconds)

Published: Fri Sep 17 2021