The Story of a Navy Seal who Became an Apologist

all right friends we have got a fun one for you today i'm here with my friend chad williams who is a former navy seal we're going to talk about his navy seal training what they did as navy seals life lessons he's learned along the way talk about his journey to faith interestingly enough while he was a seal and i want to ask him some of the thorny apologetic questions that because he's a seal he may have a unique perspective about like old testament violence things like why is there evil and how does he make sense of just war and the teachings of jesus and then we're going to take some live questions at the end and give away a signed copy of chad's book which is called seal of god chad somewhat thanks so much for joining us pumped to be on here thank you for having me on yeah you know it so you and i met on a trip to israel and i still tell people the story about when we worked out together and i played college hoops and kind of prided myself in being tough let's just say you humbled me and helped me realize that there is another gear or two that seals have to be successful so tell me of all the things you could do why did you want to be a navy seal number one i'll say that i was very impressed with how you did uh in that workout i was so stoked sean mcdowell hanging tough on a seal workout the reason that i wanted to become a seal really was just coming fresh out of high school attending a local community college i didn't have any real big plans at that time and that saying is so true if you aim at nothing you will hit it and unfortunately that's what i was aiming at at that time and so as the end of the year is coming up and all my peers are passing me by it suddenly hits me as i'm pulling into the school parking lot about to take finals i don't stand a chance at passing because i was ditching school all this year going surfing hanging out with friends i'm failing all these classes what hit me was this thought like wow i'm turning out to be a loser i mean the kind of guy that no young man wants to be and so i started thinking how do i turn this around because i don't want to live a wasted life i want to do something significant something great you know we're kind of coming fresh off the heels of 911 at that time and so as i'm sitting there in the school parking lot it just hit me i know how i can turn this all around i want to go join the military not just that i want to be a part of the most elite i want to go through that most difficult grueling military training i want to be a navy seal and so i was so committed to that in that moment as i'm sitting there in my truck about to go to class that i said hey well there it is if i'm going to be a frog man i guess my first order of business is this i don't need to go to class anymore and i started my truck up out of that parking lot and i started working out wow so to me it was almost like uh you know a rocky movie you know like the montage i start doing the push-ups the pull-ups the sit-ups like i'm i'm all in on this of course i got to let my dad know some bad news and good news as i presented it to him you know the bad news being i'm not passing any of my classes at school all that time you thought i was going i haven't been uh and of course he wants to know what's the good news and so i look at him and i say it's okay dad i got a plan i'm gonna be a navy seal and so i mean you can kind of put yourself in his shoes right there here's your son who hasn't demonstrated the discipline that it takes to make it to the local community college but now he's informing you oh i'm going to be a navy seal and so uh you know like any good father he's trying to be that voice of of reason and just make sure i'm going into it eyes wide open uh he's telling me you know joining the military is not like anything you've ever done in the past this isn't playing ball or skateboarding this isn't going to a local community college that when when you decide you're over it you could just stop he says if you join and then you find out it's not for you or suppose you quit and don't make it through sealed training just to be clear you will still be in the military and you're probably going to pick up a job like chip and paint off some boat off the coast japan and so for whatever reason the kind of guy that i was is that was like the perfect motivational speech for me right there like i came out of that like amped like i am going to do this and so that's really kind of how it all started and thankfully i got a great mentor along the way though good good friends those you just join us we're here with chad williams author of seal of god former navy seal talking about his training his experience his journey to faith now we're gonna get into some of the tough apologetic questions that intersect with his experience now before we get into just briefly some of the training that you went through to make it what exactly do seals do i think there's a lot of confusion about this yeah i mean when they find out the world found out that bin laden was killed by navy seals i think the general population thought what is there a a puddle or a waterway in pakistan these guys came crawling out of you know they expect us to stick to these waterborne operations but the reality is is we're all over the middle east as we speak uh right now seal is an acronym it stands for sea air and land and so those are the arenas that we operate in the last deployment i was ever on was out in iraq and we were given the task of hunting down men that make suicide vests and those roadside bombs ieds and while we're out there we're working with this group called the isof which is the iraqi special operations forces and one of our goals with these guys is to simply teach them how to fight their own fights and so the best way to do that is to not only train them on base but actually go outside that wire and fight side by side with them and if you can imagine i would say a whole deployment went by pretty good you know we've bagged and gagged some pretty bad dudes or making the world a better place and we were coming up on what looked like just enough time on the calendar to do maybe one more operation we could squeeze in now we weren't really sure if the ice offers ready for us to sort of pass that baton off to them as we take off so we decided hey for this final operation why don't we try and make it a sort of graduation operation we'll let them plan the whole thing from the ground up and we'll be there with them just in case things go bad and so they're starting from scratch they're hitting the streets what's the first thing they need they need some intel to operate on well they find this guy that turns out to be a source to them who tells them about this man that's an iraqi policeman and so they're looking into this guy it's a policeman by day but at night back home as it turns out he's one of these bomb makers that we're looking for and so the iso they come up with this plan and they present it to us here's how we want to approach the house get in grab this guy extract and we're looking at it it all checks out looks pretty good but they mentioned one other thing it was sort of a complaint they had they felt they got shot at more than we did and they thought they knew why so all right why and so they say it's the color of your uniforms and we're just kind of taken back by that like what the color the mirror color of our uniforms not the way we should move communicate nothing to do with tactics you think it all comes down to the mirror color of a uniform and they're just like convinced of this and so they're asking us would you be willing for this final operation to maybe take off your american colored uniforms and we got a pile of ice off uniforms for you guys that you could put on it's like looking at this pile and saying all right let's get this straight you want us to put your uniforms on to blend in with you to get shot at more with you and they just got this big smile like yes it's like fine it's not about the uniform i'll take home the souvenir i still have that uniform to this day and so we're dressed up you know my dark complexion growing a little facial hair get on an iraqi uniform i'm walking around on base about to get into the humvee and my guys on my team are looking at me with that uniform on like hey williams you know you're really starting to blend in with these guys over here now i'm kind of looking like i am and so on this final night i'm standing up in the humvee that section called the turret you see it in the movie sometimes guys standing up in the back of the vehicle i got the 50 caliber machine gun in front of me and for anyone out there that doesn't know let's just say this weapon is a weapon that could really reach out and touch somebody and so i got these night vision goggles on i'm looking through my green little world and just kind of going over this mental inventory as i'm rehearsing in my mind all the things that are going to go down this night i know my weapon is head space and time i know where this guy lives how we're going to get in grab him extract but the one unique thing i knew about this night that truly made it different than every other night i knew this is it man this is the final operation and i couldn't help but to think then that also means just a matter of days from now i'll be back in my hometown huntington beach california surfing in the ocean but what none of us knew about that night was that we were actually being set up the entire time to get thrown immediately absolute worst circumstances we've been in on this entire deployment as we find ourselves getting set up on this ambush and suddenly we're engaging in this gun battle for our lives and it truly was the team's ability to shoot move communicate and do what we do best as seals that led to the obvious conclusion i'm here live before you today but i think it's also worth remembering that it doesn't always work out that way we have that recent reminder in afghanistan losing 13 service members you know our freedoms are not free and if you think about it what are they paid for in they're paid for in the currency of our soldiers blood on the battlefield that's our earthly freedoms but i also think there's a spiritual aspect to that uh they're really just a reflection of the currency of blood that jesus christ paid at the cross not for our earthly freedom but for our eternal freedom so perhaps more on how that ambush uh played out i know that you know we got some other things to cover so folks stick around and uh we'll get into how that all played out okay fun perfect we'll come back to that i do want to ask you about you hinted at your kind of conversion to christianity but just tell me briefly the kind of training it takes to become a seal and why do some people make it and some people don't so i start with a class of 173 guys all of us sort of uh pounding our chests saying hoo yeah you know we're willing to die before we quit i remember an instructor coming into this room where we all were you know waiting for him and he asked that question how many of you are willing to die before you quit so we're all just like yeah saying who you are he goes great this is what i want you to do why don't you take a mental picture of the person on your left and on your right kind of looking around the room and he says in fact if you have someone in front of you and behind you do the same thing with them so i'm taking these weird mental pictures of people and uh once we got him he says great chances are if you're still standing here for graduation day that means that it's likely each of these people you just took a mental picture of they didn't make it so do you really think you're the one in the group damn i remember looking around the room and just really being astonished by that because we had already gone through some pre-seal training together where these instructors have given us just a little taste of what we're going to be going through and that little taste we suffered big time and i didn't see any quit in any of these guys and so i'm thinking how far down this valley do we have to go before some of these guys start quitting so as i'm looking around the room realizing the majority of the room has got to go i'm trying to find some of that low hanging fruit so i'm looking around and i see this guy barth and as i look at barth i think well that's not one of the guys that's not gonna make it that's one of the guys that's definitely going to make it barth was the stud of the class i mean this guy was just blessed with that dna that produces the stamina he had the the muscles and everything where there's never a question over who's going to get first place on anything we ever did it was always barf the question amongst everyone else is all right who's grabbing second place because we know who's in first so there's one of the guys that's definitely going to make it born and bred to be a navy seal and i'm kind of catching myself thinking what am i doing man i gotta find people that aren't gonna make it not guys that are i'm looking around the room more then i see this guy alex gagne how could i forget about alex gagne he's the total antithesis of barth like not only is this guy not going to make it he is the locker room talk he is the run of the litter he is going to be the first guy to quit and so at least i kind of have that settled in my mind there's the first guy that's going to quit or the irony of it all is that by the time we get to the most difficult part of seal training which is called hell week hell week is where they keep you up for five and a half days you get four hours of sleep that's not per night that's four hours that's a grand total that's all you get for the next five and a half days you run over 200 miles during this time with a boat on top of your head and the pressure of that boat so great on top of your head it literally rubs and grinds through the hair and the skin and the top of your head in a class prior to mine a guy broke his neck underneath one of these boats you're wet and sandy this entire time i went through in february the pacific ocean is at its absolute coldest in february in fact they stopped doing wintertime hell weeks february held weeks after my class because it was so devastating for about a decade because of how many guys we lost and so you're performing surf torture going out into that water two three o'clock in the morning that air so cold it already bites and now you're going into this water that takes your breath away and then you look like you're hanging on to a jackhammer because you're so cold we caught jackhammering cold and the instructors say we're just going to leave you there until three of you give up and quit and so you're linked with these guys that all bow the same thing they'll die before they quit and this is a game that the instructors win over and over and over but back to the irony who was amongst the first to quit during hell week well it wasn't this guy alex gagne who i never expected to even get to that point amongst the first to quit was this guy barth and who was one of the guys that ultimately made it through this pipeline and became a navy seal the guy that everybody picked is the locker room talk first guy to quit run of the litter alex gonyen and so i think what that demonstrates is sort of this thing that distinguishes the guys that make it from the guys that don't and it's typically not the sort of thing that you would think because everybody thought barth was going to be the guy that was making that was going to make it he was the people's choice our seal creed says these words of the type of person that is a navy seal it says it's the common man with uncommon desire to succeed so common man uncommon desire to succeed not the extraordinary one not the one born in bread not the one cut from another piece of cloth that comes from just the right perfect you know pedigree that has that you know that that muscle and that stamina it's the stuff that we all have control over because there are certain things in life and this is sort of popular today right a lot of people think that you're just born into a certain class other people are just born into uh you know certain privileged situations that are better than other people and you know this is just the deck of cards you get dealt in life you're a victim of your circumstances and you just gotta play your part that couldn't be further from the truth especially in a place like america it's really about heart this in america you can start at the top and find yourself at the bottom or you can start at the bottom and ultimately find yourself at the top this is the whole point of this principle common man uncommon desire to succeed it's all about your heart your desire your mindset and their biblical truth to that as well because if you think about it who was the one that was the people's choice in the old testament you know who was the one that god was referring to when he says you know what in second samuel i i don't see his man seized for man looks at the outward appearance but i look at the heart and he was saying that in comparison to who to david and who was david if you think about it he was the runt of the litter he literally was the locker room talk the last to get picked on the kickball team he wasn't even in consideration when they're looking at the house at jesse for who will succeed and be the next king but what do we know about david although he was the run of the litter this little guy he had a heart after god's own heart he was a common man but uncommon desire to succeed and how did god ultimately use this little david he uses the runt of the litter to chop off the head of a goliath to take on the giants out there and so it's all about that heart it's all about that mindset it's all about loyalty towards god you know second chronicles 16 what does it say that the eyes of the lord go to and fro throughout the whole earth to show himself strong on behalf of those whose hearts are loyal towards him and so there's biblical foundation in this stuff as well and so that's really what it ultimately comes down to out of that class of 173 guys those instructors were more than right looking around that room by graduation day there's only 13 out of the 173. 13 of that original class number still standing there and for those that didn't make it you know they're ringing a brass bell three times in front of everybody signifying you know that they quit they take their class helmet with their name their rank the class number and they lay it down on this section called the grinder this asphalt area and they just lay them down underneath that belt in chronological order and those helmets with their names remain there all throughout training is a constant reminder almost like a a graveyard of those that didn't make it and you remember the moments too when so and so you know didn't make it and quit and so yeah it's pretty grueling that is hardcore and i remember you talk a lot about a lot of these stories in your book the seal of god which what year did that come out by the way 2012. okay 2012. you sent me a copy before we had met before i knew you and i read it thoroughly enjoyed it still remember some of the stories that you told but you also talk about your past and becoming a christian and the role that you're training and being a seal played in that so talk about kind of where you became from and why you became a follower of jesus yeah so kind of going back to you know my dad's advice of just how you know and make sure you know what you're getting yourself into eyes wide open here and he thought that i didn't know what i was doing and so being a good father he tried to do the best he could to sort of give me a test fire if you will and so unknown to me you know he reaches out to this guy who is a navy seal and i remember my dad calling me into his room and he says so you really want to do this how you want to be a seal yeah dad i want to be a seal he goes great well i set up a workout for you with a navy seal check out my computer screen and i'll never forget looking at that computer screen thinking my dad doesn't know any navy seals what is this and i see this email all it says is this little one liner it says can chad come out and play tomorrow and i'm like play like death let me get this straight you met some guy off the internet claiming to be a seal and he says he wants to play with me and you're arranging this whole thing right now and he goes no he's really a seal son i'm trying to tell him you can't trust everything someone tells you off the internet dad and he's like no this guy's a seal right i'll meet up with the guy well as it turns out there's more of a conversation that took place on the phone prior to that email i didn't find out about till months later but the back story up front on that phone call he's telling him hey look here's the deal my son wants to be a navy seal but he has no idea what he's signing up for he literally has no idea what he's getting involved in and so i'm wondering if you'd be willing to do me a really big favor would you be willing to meet up with my son and if i paid you some money would you be willing to just crush him beat him down beat this desire becoming a seal out of him and so the guy thought about it for a while didn't want to give an answer just yet and after a while he decides to reply back and that's what that email was that i read yeah chad come out tomorrow so i'm meeting up with this stranger as far as i know like a fake navy seal at a beach parking lot in oceanside california that guy looked apart though and i saw him next thing i know he's calling me over he's saying you chad pointing his finger at me yes sir all right baba i was bubba from that point forward with this guy get on over here you know long story short he sends me off on this run out into the wetlands says he's going to catch up with me 15 minutes into the run and so i don't know what the final destination is only direction i'm given is basically go away from the ocean down this dirt trail out into the wetlands in the middle of nowhere i'm looking back not seeing him not seeing anybody around and he should be there by now 15 minutes in says i'm running a little bit more not seeing him still i'm looking back again now i'm starting to think hey maybe maybe i'm too fast for this navy seal he can't catch up on the run and so i'm celebrating and i look over my shoulder again and it is like a scene cut right out of terminator 2. you might remember the scene where the t-1000 this bad guy that can morph into like knife hands and chase down remember vehicle that's the navy steel coming down this trail with knife hands for me there's nothing i could do to close this gap he's just clear to keep the gap he's closing in catches right up to where i am here i am thinking we're just in a run here nope that's when it all began i'm greeted by his fist going right into my stomach as i'm getting the wind knocked out of me on the ground poof it up all around and you got to put yourself in my shoes for a moment here at the time the only intel i'm operating on some guy my dad went off the internet that was got me on the ground in the wetlands i'm thinking child predator like this is happening and so he's jumping on top of me now and just ragdolling me i still have that sound of just the threads of my shirt ripping spit flying out as he's screaming in my face feeling it just rained down hitting me in the cheeks and the forehead and i don't understand a word that's coming out but then i do hear these words he says you want to be a navy seal you better stay three paces behind me and there was something about that moment right there that literally forever changed my life i realized this is it and this is for real as i'm sitting there the wind knocked out of me after running as fast as i could i mean this feeling has never been repeated that was a singular event i realized like this is it if i quit right now i'll forever be a quitter like the way i respond in this moment no matter how bad it hurts it's not later on in steel training it is right now this is going to affect the trajectory of the rest of my life and so that's where i really affirmed that attitude and that heart and that mindset of just die before you quit and so he gets up and he says it one more time three paces and he just takes off and it took everything i had i mean after having gone through seal training which is arguably by far the most difficult military training in the world hands down i can say i never went through a more difficult singular workout i should call it a beatdown session uh then this encounter with this navy seal scott helpingston but you know we finally get to this point miles down this trail where he he ends it and he's pacing back and forth the guy looks like he wants to fight me i'm thinking i don't want to project to the navy seal that i'm i'm willing or wanting to fight him i'm just like this teenage skater kid and so i'm looking down at the ground kind of having this self-dialogue like don't set this guy off no direct eye contact just use your peripherals don't look them in the eyes and uh he breaks this really awkward attention by asking me a simple question he just says as he points at me for a second down that day he goes hey if he would have gone another mile or two would you have stayed with me and i just told him scott i'll die before i quit and he just gets this big smile on his face completely changes his demeanor and he's like great you want to meet up again for the workout tomorrow [Laughter] are we going to address the flashback that guy had on the trail because he really snapped on me but then i thought don't bring that up because i don't want to trigger that again and so thankfully from that point forward it was no longer that beat down it actually became more of a building up you know he got on the phone my dad said look i know what you want me to do i gave it a go but i think your son has what it takes to make it i'd like to start training him and so uh i moved on in live from being bubba to eventually i became junior you know as he really kept me under okay and he's meant for me and this guy became like a second father to me scott helvenstein extraordinary navy seal world champion athlete the fastest navy seal on the steel training obstacle course youngest man to ever make it through seal training he completed it at 17 years old that was only possible because of the crazy upbringing that he had i mean talk about not being a victim of your circumstances this guy grew up in over 20 different foster homes and he's also the only man on the tv program at the time called man vs beast where he raced a chimpanzee through an obstacle course and pulled ahead of the monkey on monkey bars i mean you can't make this stuff up any better and it's reality and so you can imagine what it's like to get trained by him and just get brought up by him uh he got me ready and so i signed up i got this date it's set i'm ready to ship off he takes an opportunity put it to go overseas one last time and so he's getting on the phone with me uh as he's leaving before i leave for boot camp and he says all right junior about to go do this thing he's referring to uh going off to iraq and he says i just want you to know something though that i've never told anybody i've ever trained before he says i know you're going to make it through seal training and so wow i don't need to tell anyone how much that meant to me and so he's reminding me just the timeline he's going to be back in a couple months i'll be done with boot camp in a couple months i'll start seal training he'll be back he says we're gonna see him make it through and so we get off the phone we say our goodbyes a handful of days later television's on and i see scott on tv and i'm like what is scott doing on tv looking this smiling picture of him typical shot they might use before they introduce somebody onto a program so i'm just like looking at the smiling image not really tuned in to you know the words going on in the background but then i see in that lower part of the screen where our names are right now the lower third i see his name but followed by a birthday and a dash and it says march 31st 2004. holy cow and before i could process in my mind because that's just a hard thing to translate in your head wow like that's not real and before i could really process that it switches from the smiling image of him to suddenly i'm looking at video footage graphic video footage of a vehicle burning engulfed in flames in fallujah iraq which as it turns out to be the very vehicle that he was in along with other americans as this angry iraqi mob and insurgents rip their bodies out of the vehicle and they're lifeless and they videotape everything they're doing from that point forward very similar to what groups like isis have done in recent you know past where it's never enough to commit some atrocity they want to videotape everything that they're doing and send it around to create you know fear and it's just uh they're just savages and so i'm watching this footage i can't look away of you know my mentor being mutilated with sticks and rods and then they find rope and they wrap it around his legs and they hook them up to a vehicle and they dragged him through the streets of fallujah as if they were at a parade they were celebrating they get to the euphrates river bridge and string them upside down set the body on fire and then they look into a camera as they burn in the background over their shoulder they're staring into this camera and chanting repeatedly over and over they say fallujah is the graveyard of americans fallujah is the graveyard of americans and so i think pretty neat to say i'll never have the words to describe just what you know that moment and all the surrounding moments were like experienced every sort of uh spectrum of you know emotion of just like the grief the hatred the deny on i kind of landed on this sort of sense of just anger and revenge and you know that was sort of my pressing forward is you know in in the teams part of our seal creed is that we're forged by adversity and so everyone faces adversity you know in life anyone listening right now has already faced it but there will be more and so the thing about adversity is it'll either be a wing or a weight in your life it'll either be that thing that just you know sinks you leave you knocked down never to get back up again people see what you get sunk with and they just go wow never resurfacing from that one if you find a wing in the moment somehow which is just really a way to rise to the occasion and uh in the teams we call it forged by diversity you either fail because of your adversity or you'll be forced by it there's actually this anonymous quote that i've heard before uh shared and and i put it to memory hopefully i don't blow it here um but i think it really just kind of capture how god's able to sort of use a hammer and a chisel in these you know fiery moments in our lives to to shape us and sometimes it really hurts what's going on sometimes you know there's there's chunks that are coming off and we're looking at god not understanding what or why but we have to remember you know if you are in the will of god if you're called according to his purpose he has the way towards working all things toward the good he has a way towards he's shaping something and you have to trust the master sculptors but it goes like this it says that when god wants to drill a man and thrill a man and skill a man when god wants to mold a man to play the noblest part when he yearns with all his heart to create so great and bold a man that all the world should be amazed watch his methods and watch his ways how he ruthlessly perfects whom he royally elects how he hammers him and hurts him and with mighty blows converts him into trial shapes of clay which only god understands while man's tortured heart is crying and he lifts beseeching hands how god bends but he never breaks when it's man's good that he undertakes and now he uses whom he chooses and with every purpose fuses him by every act introduces him to try his splendor out god knows what he is about and so we might not know really what's around the corner or what god is up to but as christians we are called to walk by faith and we are called to trust that the master sculptor has an image in mind and he knows what he is making and so that sort of wing in the moment that way to rise to the occasion it's very case-by-case basis i can share with everyone here that the way that i kind of rose to the occasion was forged through this process was going back to that last conversation with my mentor and remembering him telling me junior i know you're gonna make it through sealed training that began the forging process right there i wrote his name on the inside of my hat as a constant reminder and a motivation to make it through and ultimately made it through that training but you know to your question about you know coming to faith i had this expectation that once i became a seal that everything was sort of just kind of come together coalesce i i accepted that life really felt just out of orbit the world was pulled out from underneath me but once i become a seal once i walk in scott's footsteps you know once i get to the top of that mountain everything will be on the up and up from that point forward well i gotta say that not only was it one of the happiest days of my life becoming a seal i mean i remember looking up and thinking scott we did this i remember seeing my family out there and they're so proud i'm getting that trident now you know going back to that parking lot in the junior college like stop being a loser and i become a seal i've got this thing pinned into my chest it's like i finally have done it this is one of the happiest most fulfilling moments of my life but here's the crazy thing it didn't take more than 24 hours before i felt like everything began to go downhill wow went out of the sail and circled the drain from that point forward and i couldn't wrap my mind around why at the time i mean i i just achieved this thing that i thought was going to be the ultimate and it was years later i heard these words spoken by a christian philosopher and i thought man those words had the nail on the head that's exactly what my experience was on graduation day and so these are the words he says one of the loneliest moments a man will ever experience is when he's achieved that which he thought would deliver the ultimate and in the end it lets him down one of the loneliest moments a man will ever experience when he's achieved that which he thought would deliver the ultimate in the end it lets him down what he's referring to right there is something i believe everybody listening watching right now is familiar with at least to some degree because we refer to it as sometimes it's the human condition sometimes we talk about it as the grass is always greener on the other side not not quite satisfied where we're at not fulfilled here well what do you want man i just want a little bit more and so we buy into this belief that if i just had a little bit more if i could just achieve this goal this status maybe what i'm missing in my life is a relationship you get that maybe what we need in our lives are some little kids running around or a bigger home and we keep moving the bar believing that that is going to be the thing that brings ultimate satisfaction and fulfillment but we're never satisfied and so we we set the bar oh so high we're aiming at this goal we hunger for it that hunger leads to good stuff it leads to you know the hard work the drive blood sweat tears determination whatever it takes to get there but have you ever had your moment where you achieved the thing that was in your crosshairs and you eat that moment up you're satisfied there's recognition whatever it is but what happens is the satisfaction doesn't last quite like you thought it would and so what do you do well you don't panic here you just kind of reason within you put on your little thinking cap and after a little introspect a light bulb goes off in your head oh i know why this didn't give me lasting fulfillment it's simple i didn't go for something big enough if i really wanted to last i need to raise the bar i need to go to that next rung of the ladder i need to climb that mountain a little bit higher and so that's exactly what we do we got that new goal in mind we're thirsting after it we work towards getting it we get there we drink it up and finally this is the one we are satisfied but what happens it's like a vicious cycle you just get hungry and thirsty all over again and seemingly there just is no end but there is an end point and i guess you could say that is the point of that quote of one of the loneliest moments because here's the big question what happens when you finally arrive at a place where you no longer like all the previous times before can say well i know what i'll do i'll just go to the next run of the ladder no you can't do that this time why not because as it turns out you're at the last run of the ladder you can't say well i'll just truck up the mountain and go a little bit higher from here gain some more elevation no you can't do that this time why not because you're at the peak of the mountain there's nothing left to climb and yet like all the previous times before you're hungry and thirsty for more but unlike all of the other times there is no next and that is exactly what you see in the lives of professional athletes rock stars movie stars that have climbed to the top of their version of the world they've gained everything that the world has to offer and what do we see going on in their lives let's not kid ourselves it's a constant drama being played out they are destroying their own lives with drugs and alcohol they're miserable they have the dream job could you imagine like having anthony bourdain's job of getting to go to parts unknown i used to watch that from you know when i'm traveling hotel rooms and think man like like what what a life and secretly the guy's so miserable that he's taking his own life in a hotel room and we sit back and we look on and we go why like why man don't you know what you have don't you know what people would trade to be in your shoes but maybe that's just it having all that the world has to offer isn't really all that it's cracked up to be and we don't like to hear that because it sounds like a downer but the reality is is that well jesus puts it best what's it profit of man if he gains the whole world but in the end loses his soul that is the real key right there and so me becoming a navy seal was my version of gaining the whole world the reality was is that at that stage of my life my soul was not oriented correctly with the creator and for anyone listening out there look if you don't have peace with your creator have no expectation to ever enjoy any kind of peace while you're here on earth and so that was the problem but i didn't know that that was the problem at the time and so i didn't go on a spiritual quest i just kind of was s stuck sitting in my my anger and frustration and thinking that that's it like that's all in her life and if anything getting some get back for scott overseas that's something to look forward to and so i had a lot of anger and a lot of rage and thankfully those reasons to have mature along the way what ultimately got me saved while i was in the teams i was kind of making a mess of my life in the outside world i i kind of adopted that whole world card play hard mentality and i had a lot of people that cared about me that were seeing how i was just drinking and doing a lot of really dumb stuff i mean i would take it too far to the point of blocking out and just waking up and hearing about the foolish things i did you know the next day things where you know everything came to a head one night where i was required to get 26 stitches in my knuckles i don't remember anything about that night and i wish i could tell you i felt remorse but i thought those sort of sort of things when i woke up to them i thought they were comical i thought it was something to laugh about like i did what and the reality is it's just shameful it's personal robbery and so just to get the family off my back i agreed to go to an event with them it was a church thing in the middle of the week and i had plans of going not drinking later that night i just thought i'll suffer through it i haven't been to church in a long time i'll punch my card in make them happy and then by the time we get home and they go to bed like i'm only just beginning my night and so we go and there's this passage gets opened up second kings chapter five second kings chapter five tells the story of a soldier i don't think well at least i'm going to hear a story about a soldier here i am and this the soldier it's it's naming and it's the describing name and i mean naaman sounds like he could have been a seal had there been such a thing during his time you know he said great success in battle he's got this entourage of men that highly respect him he's highly regarded uh this status that he has his identity is getting him into high places he's at the vip meet and greets it says that even the king enjoys naaman's company you know so he's rubbing shoulders with the king he's described as this mighty man of valor and then it all halts but naman had leprosy and leprosy during naaman's time let's just say that was a little worse than a case of eczema today jesus looking back said nobody during the time of naaman had ever been healed of leprosy and so now i kind of circle back and picture neyman's like life like this if you would you know so much for all this success so much for this outward man it's all a persona because what's really going on underneath that armor there that you have on name and what's really going on underneath that clothing wow well what's really going on is he's deteriorating he's falling apart he's literally a dead man walking well as i sat there how quickly i related with that guy right there and maybe a lot of the people listening right now or watching can relate with that man right there because if you're really being honest with yourself who are you who are you on the outside in front of your co-workers in front of your family members in front of your friends when in reality justice name and had some other issues that were eating away and destroying them underneath it all you got some other things going on underneath it all and so i find myself pretty captivated i'm listening and no doubt about it naaman probably tried everything he could do to fix himself of his problem and in a sense you know that's what we all do we all try and fix ourselves of our problems but naaman can't fix himself at this one and and the unsung hero in this story it's crazy it's just a little girl a little servant girl that just speaks up she's the evangelist and she says if only my master would go to the prophet was in samaria or he would heal him of his leprosy name is desperate he decides to go turns out this is enemy occupied territory 150 miles away and so he's got to go to his king for approval his king says absolutely go i'll send a letter with you so he goes horses and chariots he gets all the way there to the man of god's door and the guy doesn't even come to the door sends a servant to the door relays this message if you just go dip yourself in the jordan river there are seven times when you come up your flesh will be restored to you you will be clean well naaman became furious i mean could you imagine he just came all this way with his men uh does this guy have any idea who naaman is it's like almost proportional the more important of a person you are the farther they come out to greet you at the very least this guy should have been there at the door you know when a king comes to a city the welcoming party begins outside the city gates that's where everyone's at and so instead he just gets treated like less than a normal and gets told to go dip in the water so it says that he literally begins to leave in a rage he's going back and he's venting out loud he's saying exactly what his expectations were starting off with i expected this guy to come out of his place and he was expecting him for for him to basically do some real special effects stuff like put on a show he thought he's going to come out like call in the name of the lord is god wave his hand over the place and just boom heal the leprosy and instead he's getting told to go in this water and so he's like you know don't have cleaner water where i'm from you know then this water over here and so he's leaving in this rage and if people that are listening right now haven't caught it yet what is neyman's real problem here is it that leprosy or is that more of a surface symptom the real problem here is this ego and this pride and if he continues off in that direction it's terminal you were just talking about naaman and uh you froze kind of at the moment describing what the real issue was going on with him okay it's his bride it's his ego and so as he's leaving in this rage taking off if he continues off in that direction he'll die but here's the cool thing he's surrounded by some men that care about him they're looking out for him and they just know this much we need to get our name and back in front of that god of israel step back and let the fireworks take place and so they're running up to him leading with him come on name and look you know if this guy gave you some big great thing to do you would have done it i mean what if he was given like a crossfit exercise and broken glass to run over barefoot like be he'd show me where to start but because it's such a simple thing just go watch and be clean to him it seemed like a foolish thing and what we can't miss about that is listen that's exactly what it says about the preaching of the cross it says the preaching of the cross is foolishness to who those that are perishing well no doubt about it naaman here is a state of perishing but something these guys say gets through and he decides he'll do it and the moment that he's doing this making this 180 it's a whole lot more than a physical change of direction i think it's emotional intellectual most importantly spiritual i think he understands in order for me to live i gotta die i gotta go make this walk to my own funeral humble myself and is he stripping away that armor that needed to go he's stripping away what really needed to go all that time the pride the ego being transparent dipping himself five six seven times in this water i think he understands now it's not the water it's gonna fix me it said if i'm faithful the god of israel be faithful and he will do the heavy lifting comes up that seventh time and the literal hebrew the picture is that he had brand new skin like that of a baby i remember being on the edge of my seat listening to this feeling like i'm watching a movie relating with name and feeling so good for him how it all works out and this is typically where the movie ends the credits roll the lights come back on and now it's no longer time to enjoy a movie and live vicariously through a character now it's time to go back out there into the world i want to make a point the credits don't roll right there and i'll wrap it up with this the credits don't roll right there that just as god provided our way out for name and he's provided a way out for you and i as well and it doesn't come in the form of dipping ourselves into the water it comes in the form of him dipping his son down into the world that's jesus of nazareth to live a holy and perfect sinless life anyone listening right now if you haven't caught it yet that leprosy is a picture of something in our life spiritually speaking apart from god we are spiritual lepers and just like naaman couldn't do anything to get that leprosy off of himself there's nothing we can do to get the sin off of ourselves but god has provided a way out through this jesus we are spotted and blotted and blemished with this sin this leprosy but jesus was holy and pure without blemish he goes to the cross and the purpose of him going to the cross is very explicit it says he went to the cross to save his people from their sin so here's a picture for everyone jesus at the cross traded skin with you and i he stepped in and took our leprosy as it were our sin upon himself so we could be switching lavish with god's grace and his mercy and he rose again from the dead and that is so important that we point that out because there's no christianity without the resurrection and as william lane craig points out what did that resurrection do it vindicated him and invalidated his teaching because theologically we know why jesus went to the cross to save his people from their sin but historically he went to the cross as a blasphemer and boy did they think they had it right as they mocked him up there on the cross but by god raising him from the dead it vindicated him that he was no blasphemer that he truly was the son of god who claimed to be and it validated it authenticated his very exclusive claims and teachings like i am the way the truth the life no one comes to the father except through me and so the way that we receive this sort of cleansing if you will is remember name and need to do this 180 what we do is we repent which is a term no one uses on the street so it's what does it mean to say you're sorry a little bit more loaded than that right i'm so sorry i want to change and you put your faith and trust in jesus to do what to do the heavy lifting to pay for your sin and full at the cross it's basically like saying god you know just as jesus was nailed to the cross nailed the old me crucified the old mess he was buried bear that old mean as he rose again new from the grave that's what we're asking god for that new life forgiveness of sin a relationship with him eternity in heaven and elaine to be in while we're here on earth only what he could give and jesus says you know that as as he lives although a man shall die he shall live and so he overcame the grave and so we also can have that life and so for me it was march 14 2007 active duty navy seal i hear this message i got plans of going out drinking later that night nope forget that i'm doing what it says and the scriptures are so true if any man be in christ he's a new creation all things pass away behold all things become all things become new it completely radically obviously changed my eternal trajectory and just the way i was living life here on earth because now i have peace with my creator and i can go back to enjoying being a navy seal in a way i never enjoyed it before and it's proper category where it belonged always as a secondary or supplementary thing to life right and so that's what you get in colossians 3 17 whatever you do in word or deed do all in the name of the lord jesus whatever it is that people do out there if you do it in the name of yourself me me me it'll always be like decaf it'll never deliver you know but if you bring the lord jesus you bring jesus into it and what you're infusing the things you do you're infusing it with christ and so now those temporal things that you do actually do echo in eternity and so i looked at it as i'm a seal for christ now and so thank you for your patience with that but yeah that's how i got saved is through that message and it's completely changed everything about my life that's amazing you may be a former seal but you are a preacher at heart man i love it even bringing decaf coffee in that's fantastic well we've just we got a few minutes left i don't even got to run at at one but let's take some questions if you have questions for chat about his testimony about his experience as a seal uh bring it in and we'll kind of get some quick responses for him but let me just ask you uh a couple questions while they're loading in maybe kind of give us the the twitter response to these so you're a christian and then you go back to being a seal how do you blend that with the teachings of jesus in which he lays down his life rather than taking life what does it mean what does it mean to you to be a christian seal yeah doesn't it say somewhere thou shall not kill that's what i thought after i became a christian and the sixth commandment immediately i'm digging into that and so what i discovered is okay uh it doesn't say thou shalt not kill the hebrew word is uh retsok or tash pronunciation ain't that great but it means to murder and there's a difference between killing and murdering and in fact you know ecclesiastes says there is a time to kill and in romans 13 uh the government doesn't bear the sword in vain but we are to be an avenger against those who commit evil and so as christians i'm pretty sure the psalmist wrote that we're to be defenders of defenseless people we're not supposed to be a doormat that's walked on sometimes people refer to well didn't jesus say if anyone slaps you on the right cheek turn the other to him also what is he teaching there if you look at the broader context right there what he's talking about is don't try and get revenge right don't return evil for evil i don't think he's saying be a doormat to be walked on it's not wooden literal why why can i say that right there look at the surrounding context he also says if your right eye causes you to sin pluck it out and cast it from you anyone doing that because he says it's more profitable for you that one of your members perished and for your whole body to be cast into hell why did jesus in luke chapter 22 say to his disciples when he was sending them out look i didn't send you out with a gearless before basically everything was going to be provided for you but now i'm telling you bring your sandals bring a knapsack bring a money bag bring a sword he gives them a gear list and it's very practical what those things are for what are sandals for for walking on what's a money bag for to put your money in what's a knapsack for to put your belongings in what's the sword for are we going to make that spiritual now no the source for defending yourself and they're like look lord hears two he goes all right that's enough and so we we can defend ourselves we're defenders the defenses and there's a just cause for war romans chapter 13. the government doesn't bear that sword in vain very very thoughtful chad you've thought about these things a lot i appreciate that let's let's jump to some questions hayden hobb says as a seal how do i instill the fact that god has a higher calling and this world will never satisfy to my high school guys small group well i like what c.s lewis you know points out about that passage where jesus says you know seek first the the kingdom of god in his righteousness and everything else will be added to you you know as we talked about you know kind of before like everything else will leave you hungry and thirsty never satisfied jesus makes the point though if you drink of his living water you'll never thirst again never thirst again in what sense you never thirst again in the sense that you are complete you have no need you know for another and so the ultimate like higher calling in god is to know him i think and to make him known and everything else is just it's secondary and supplementary like we talked about colossians 3 17 it's whatever you do in word or deed you all in the name of the lord jesus and so it's lewis you know he says if you aim at heaven if you aim at earth you'll miss but if you aim at heaven you'll hit and you get earth thrown in and so that's the ultimate highest calling of all is to know your creator and make him known amen hey hayden one tip as a high school teacher is get chad's book read it to your kids take part of this interview stories is what communicates truth so hearing somebody go through this might click for them wait a minute i can learn from his story so that's two practical things you could potentially do all right jason a good friend and consistent viewer says was it hard to live out a christian life while surrounded by seals who work hard and party hard i would suggest that it's just like any other industry out there when you become a seal if you're i mean if when you become a christian if you're really living it out like jesus says you know let your light so shine before men they may see your good works and glorify your father who is in heaven well that's the upside to being light sometimes people you know it's like that saying the same sun that melts wax hardens clay it's the same light-bearing source it has a totally different response based off of the recipient wax melts clay is hardened and so that's how it'll be when you are that light around other people some of them will have a heart that's melted by seeing the things that are happening in your life and they'll want to know more and other people are kind of like that clay heart and they don't want anything to do with it and we got to remember that jesus says something else about light that he says the light has come into the world but men love darkness rather than light because their deeds are evil for everyone practicing evil hates the light and doesn't come to the lightless or deed should be exposed and so that is the expectation you should have whether or not you're in the military the corporate world construction world if you are a christian you're going to have people that love you and hate you never was there a name so loved and so hated as jesus and he also makes the point what do you of all men speak well of you and so you're going to have an effect on where you go we're supposed to be that light and we're salt and one of the things salt does is it makes things taste different well said here's a really interesting one for you chad uh nishan says what has been the hardest thing since your salvation since becoming a christian what's been the biggest challenge for you maybe personally spiritually practically man that is a good question since becoming a christian maybe just kind of holding back sometimes when i see some type of injustice uh a lot of times i just want to take matters into my own hands and that's really tough for me um you know there's certain contexts where it's allowable right when you're in the military when you're a seal when you're serving overseas but there's other times where it's just like that's not right you know but we got to trust the lord uh that you know he's ultimately uh going to be the avenger in in a lot of these cases and so that's where turning the other cheek does come into play it's not getting some get back you know all the time that's been a tough lesson you know we all struggle with seeing injustices but we also don't all have the skills to actually bring that justice ourselves so i could imagine how tough that could be for you that's fair here's a great question from susan who just is a regular viewer she says uh were you able to lead any of your fellow seal members to christ were there many christian seals or what was just that spiritual interaction like with other seals at that time and since then so to be honest uh in my platoon i didn't really have anyone else that i could lean on as as a christian maybe god set it up that way intentionally it was difficult for me once i became a believer i told the guys guys i just became a christian at first they're like good for you and then days later they're like hey what happened to the old chat where's he at and it became kind of an irritant to them and uh you know that saying that when you throw a rock into a pack of dogs how do you know which one it hit it's the one that yelps the loudest i'll just say one of the guys that was just the most awful towards me i you know i never thought he would ever come around i get out and i find out a few years later oh did you hear about so-and-so he became a christian he's one of those guys he's trying to convert and change everyone on the seal teams now and so i didn't get to see the front you know while i was in but uh you know that's that's pretty awesome uh to hear it's it's a pretty rough place it's a lot of you know there's a lot of bravado a lot of doing it my way and i think the mentality is is that well what i got thrown at me a lot was what's a good thing you're getting out of the military chad yeah because you know how do i know you can cover my back how do i know you know like christianity that's kind of a crutch it's kind of a weakness and so they just didn't really understand because their mentality was like look you can't go into a strip club with us you can't look at a naked woman but you tell me you can kill and so in their mind they couldn't distinguish between the two they actually thought killing was more violent you know or graphic or worse or evil than actually looking at a naked woman when in reality they don't understand that like on the one hand going into a strip club would be total sin but there is just cause divine justification you know for what we're doing overseas thankfully one of the guys that was mocking me the most about that literally the day before oh it's a good thing you're getting out williams because how do i know you'll cover my back he thought i was just a weak christian that ambush situation that we were in that i initially opened up with i ended up rolling in covering for this guy with a 50 car machine gun and uh he's looking up at the humvee not knowing exactly who was up in the tour and he's just going yes who is that up there and i looked at it and i go it's williams this guy literally the day before is like how do i know you're gonna cover my back that's awesome i love it well one one last one because i know we got a split there are so many more good questions maybe we'll have you back if you want to just do a question answer time i would be a lot of fun let's talk about that but the mountains i go says was there anything about being a seal that served as evidence that christianity is true or god exists or maybe any experiences you had that just affirmed kind of the christian worldview a couple of things can be said on that number one there's no atheists in foxholes right and so the irony is that a lot of these guys in the teams that mocked me a lot when we got into a bad situation and got out of it they were like i think william's god was on our side on that one you know and so you know they're calling out to god and also i think just the the evidence of the reality of evil you know of good and evil in order for evil to exist there has to be such a thing as good you know as many of them have heard out there if there is no standard you know that we could use to distinguish between what is good and evil we need this ultimate moral law giver well then you don't have anything to distinguish between good and evil and if there is no you know measuring rod for good and evil then what is evil doesn't really exist it's as i think i've heard you say before it's kind of like ice cream you know some people just choose uh their their flavor it's uh you know some people love their neighbor some people want to eat their neighbor um i don't think that that comports with reality right anyone that doesn't understand that there's real evil out there we would just say uh they're morally handicapped the same way uh someone that's colorblind is handicapped and can't distinguish between color any of those of us out there that can distinguish between good and evil that's evidence right there that there is a moral lawgiver there is an ultimate good out there it's god he is the standard and it permeates from his nature super thoughtful chad that you would see the problem of evil and i agree with you as an evidence that there's an objective standard of good and ultimately a god and i'm sure you've seen some things that you don't even want to talk about again that show the brokenness of human beings pretty deep so a few comments i've seen that said thanks for your service so before we close off i definitely want to echo again myself and a lot of viewers are just saying thank you beyond this for your service and your continued work that you're doing today let's give away your free book i want to let you uh pick the best question very quickly before we do so those who are tracking with us make sure you hit subscribe because we've got some shows coming up you will not want to miss have a show interviewing an expert on cs lewis telling the story of cs lewis from atheist to christian apologist have a show coming up soon on the tactics that progressive christians use to try to get a paradigm shift amongst conservative christians i'm having a conversation with somebody who's affirming with lgbtq hit subscribe are not going to want to miss some of these shows chad i don't know if you remember but hayden asked about how to communicate to a high school group uh jason collins said uh oh i can't even read this one jason clover about lee oh shoot sorry jason i butchered your question uh shoot i couldn't write it down uh nishan asked the hardest thing since you've been a believer uh susan asked about other seals then coming to faith and then recently there's a question from to the mountains about the evidence you've seen that affirms your worldview any of those jump out to you as being just interesting you want to send them a free book uh yeah probably nishan's that that was a very interesting thing okay a little bit more yeah love it all right nishan email me through my site it's shawnmcdowell.org sean mcdowell.org give me your address i will forward it to chad and he's going to send you a signed copy of his book seal of god that's awesome chad now very quickly tell people just how they can continue to follow you because somebody said what's next preacher evangelist speaker how can they stay in touch with you well i love sharing the gospel i'm actually out in philly i'm from california i get to share the gospel tonight with the men's group at calvary chapel of philadelphia um and if they want to stay in touch they can find me at my my website and anyone that wants to get a signed copy of that book uh you know you can order some copy also at sealofchrist.com we've also got shirts and hats on there you know one of the things that this frog means i don't know if people could see it but in the steel teams this is like backwards for me we're known as frog men and so we wear this bone frog in uh in honor of memory of fallen frogmen and on the back of the shirt it has those words greater love has no one than this one that leads on his life for his friends that's john 15 13 but no scripture reference there no scripture reference for a specific reason because if there was a scripture reference people in the street won't ask you about it but they see that frog and they're intrigued and so it's an opportunity to share with them and look at this represents seals that shed their blood for your earthly freedom and then they see those words of greater love and they go i like those words who was that was that socrates amazing no that was a savior and just as these guys shed their blood for your earthly freedom he shed his blood for your eternal freedom the way they respond i can almost guarantee you it's scripted practically they say i never thought about it that way and so the shirt is just it has been one of the greatest tools as far as opening up the conversation uh to the gospel for some people out there so sealoffchrist.com uh that's where we can stay in touch and you can stay up to date and get those things chad your good friend thanks so much for coming on let me know whatever i can do to help your ministry to get the word out i think it's remarkable again i hope people check out sealofgod.com get a shirt follow the social media oh my goodness seal of christ dot com the biblical seal of god there we go url and he would not give it i mean i threw unrealistic money at him oh my i have no intention of doing it but i want to know what is his number i'm like i'll give you 20 000 for that url oh my goodness no no no i got big plans i got big plans with this url he hasn't done anything with it over a decade practically now so oh you're kidding me so seal of christ.com seal of god is the book pick it up and we'll have you back we'll do a question and answer so appreciate my friend have a great time in philly talking to the men great all right thank you see you brother see ya

Channel: Dr. Sean McDowell

Views: 5,023

Rating: 4.9688311 out of 5

Keywords: Navy Seal, training, Christian, faith, God, belief, apologetics, story, conversion

Id: NR9T4XupXe8

Length: 62min 25sec (3745 seconds)

Published: Fri Sep 17 2021