LET'S TALK TURBOS-COMPRESSOR MAPS (BOOST OR BOGUS?)

yeah we're live it's a little after 7 7 14 to be exact tonight we're going to talk a little bit about uh i'm going to go ahead and put something up here yo where are you at now we're going to talk about turbos one of my favorite subjects and we're more specifically we're going to talk about compressor maps because i was uh doing some thinking and and when you go on the internet and you're searching around and taking a look at different compressor maps and different turbos and i get lots of comments and feedback and obviously questions about this kind of stuff but i thought it was interesting so here's the thing we've got a lot to talk about how many people choose their turbo based on what they're looking at on a compressor map we've got a couple problems here first of all for a lot of guys the most of us all of these inexpensive offshore turbos very few of them have compressor maps now yeah we can look at a garrett one or borgwarner one that's kind of close and kind of speculate but i'm not even talking about that i'm not even talking about the s some we have them and some we don't let's assume that you were choosing a turbo that had a compressor map that had a compressor map available for it how many of us look at the compressor map on the turbo and go oh hey look this one at the power level that i want it to be is 69 efficient in the you know the most efficient part of the map okay that's where i want to be that's i i need that because the other ones i looked at were like 68 or 67 how many of us pick our turbo based on wanting to run it in this like efficiency island i know this this turbo is the most efficient let's say it's 73 or 74 whatever the number is how many of us would pick it based on that number and how important is that number when you're looking at the compressor map how how important is that really big efficiency number here's what i came up with and here's what i was thinking i honestly don't think it's that important and not because i don't think that turbo efficiency is important i think that it is i think that it's important i think that i think that if you can have your turbo run as efficient as you can you're probably going to make more horsepower per pound of boost relative to the n a motor because we know that that's really the big contributing factor it's the n a motor power output and then the turbo and then other little things but the point my point is and here's what i was thinking and here's the conversation i was having with myself after looking up a bunch of this information it's this if you take a look at a compressor map any compressor map for almost any turbo if you take a look at the map the island of most efficiency is not out where it's not where most people would run it let me give you an example so if we take a compressor mount that is a 900 horsepower turbo s475 style that kind of thing if we take that map and look at the map the island of efficiency might be in the 600 the the the most efficient area of that island of that compressor map might be in the 700 horsepower range now it's gonna be a it's actually going to be a fairly broad range and that's the great thing about turbos is the is that really um efficient part of the island um is pretty big but i'll tell you where it's not where it never is it's never to the far right side of that map as you're looking at it and the thing is what i was thinking is this is certainly true of most people it's certainly true of every racer if you have a turbo what guys that go race do is they're not going to run their 900 horsepower turbo at that 700 horsepower range some guys might and they would be smart because that that's where the turbo is going to be the most efficient what most of the guys are going to do and certainly guys that have a an s475 or gt45 clone or any of those things that you that we would get even ones that don't have compressor maps on them where are those guys going to run their turbos they're going to run it over on the far side in the all of it range and and quite honestly for those guys and this is what i'm going to do a big video on this i'm going to do a full length video i just thought i wanted to talk to you guys about it first on the uh all of my live feed guys but think about this if a guy is running at the drag strip and he's he's going to want to use all the turbo so if he has a gt45 or an s475 he's not running the turbo where it's most efficient as a matter of fact they're running in where it's not very efficient at all if they run it all to the far to the right side where the maximum flow rate is where where the intersection of maximum flow rate and usually impeller speed um it's not going to be very efficient there the island of efficiency we've gone way way down we we might be we might have gone down from 69 percent to 54 or some number we'll we'll be able to take a look at that and on an actual map and i'll show you what i'm talking about and the thing is if you look at the island where it's most efficient we may be gaining lots of horsepower per pound of boost there and we're gaining a lot less out at this maximum range where guys run the turbo when they're trying to max the turbo out so let's say on their last two pounds of boost instead of 25 horsepower per pound they're only getting 19 and then the last one maybe they're only getting 13. they don't really care about that they don't care that they're not running in the most efficient part of that island the reason that they don't care about that is because they gained power as they turn the boost up they might not get as much as they would if they turned it up in the sweet spot but they don't care about that they're trying to max the turbo out if they have a thousand horsepower turbo then they're trying to get a thousand horsepower out of it and the way that you do that from being a turbo guy is you turn the boost up and it doesn't matter to you that the fact that you're outside of that island of efficiency so even if you chose the turbo for that map oh look that's like 74 there they don't care about that because they're not running it there and i think that that's a well i can put it to you guys what do you guys think do you think that most guys do that you most guys how many guys do you know because i don't know any i don't know anybody that buys a 900 or a thousand horsepower turbo and only runs it at 700 horsepower because it's most efficient there i don't know very many guys that do that i mean for a stationary you know for a stationary agricultural pump motor or something where you ran it at the at a constant rpm and constant load and ran into that boost level that might work really well but i don't think that most guys that race do that because what they're going to do is if they run it at 10 pounds and let's say at 10 pounds it's in the nice area of efficiency on the island on the map they're not going to stay there they're going to turn it up because 10 pounds is good but you know it's better than 10 pounds 12 15 20 or whatever that turbo will do on their combination so i i submit that the the compressor map while it's useful and and we all want to look at it and we we should know how to read it i'm going to be doing videos on that i just don't think a lot of guys run their turbo where that is most efficient here's the flip side to that here that one side is everyone guys drag racers and stuff are running their turbos all out so if you have a thousand horsepower turbo you want to run it out a thousand horsepower and when you run it at a thousand horsepower it's not efficient it's not as efficient as it would be if you ran less power than that the other side of that is if we have a 900 or a thousand horsepower turbo and we were to only run it at the 700 horsepower range where it's very efficient where we know it's making it's maximizing its its horsepower per pound of boost relative to the motor and the charge air is cool and all the benefits that come with running in the island of being most efficient and not running on the island of misfit toys area yeah here's the other thing that happens and this is something for guys to be concerned with that are running that might be wanting to run in maximum efficiency island and not running it all out guys on the other side of the scale here's the thing that they should be thinking of if you and we've talked about this many times if you have a 900 or a thousand horsepower turbo and you're only running it at six or seven hundred horsepower then you'd be much better off picking a smaller turbo and the reason for that has less to do with being in the island of efficiency because let's say that on your 900 or a thousand horsepower turbo you're running at 700 horsepower you're right in the meaty part of the island where it's doing very well the other thing that you have to think about is if you're only running it at 700 horsepower on your thousand horsepower or 900 horsepower turbo it's not going to be as responsive on the other end on the beginning end as it would be if you only ran a 700 or 750 or 800 horsepower turbo instead of having all that excess if you ran a smaller turbo that was more efficient and again while it might not be the most efficient because again if you run it if you run a smaller one it might not be in the island of efficiency it still might it might actually and that's the nice thing about turbos is like i said this area can be pretty broad um but the thing is it will be more responsive because generally speaking if you put a smaller turbo on it's going to be more responsive a 700 horsepower turbo should be more responsive than a thousand horsepower turbo irrespective of where you are on the maps so that's the other thing to consider and the thing is a comparison between those two turbos even if the 900 or thousand horsepower turbo is ultimately more efficient it has a better looking compressor map and is more efficient in the in the maximum efficiency island if you were to do a roll-on race at 2000 rpm like everybody wants me to do when i do these engine dinos run it from as low as you can and let's see what the boost response is on a smaller turbo it's going to win that race every time even if ultimately the bigger turbo makes more power more horsepower per pound of boost if you run them at the same boost and both of them can support that power level the smaller turbo is going to be more efficient it's going to come up on boost sooner it's going to make things happen sooner and it's going to pull out a lead on the other one and the other one's not ever going to be able to run it down so and a lot of guys want a really not they care less about the efficiency than they want the thing to be responsive so if you're a guy that's running low boost and you're driving on pump gas or driving on the street or whatever and you want something that's going to make this amount of power then you size the turbo to do that and then make it more responsive i know that i tell you guys if you if you want to make 6 or 700 horsepower you should probably just put a thousand horsepower turbo on it and you should because you're going to go up most people do but the thing is it will be more responsive if you size your turbo so it's the most responsive and then allows you also to reach whatever power goal you're trying to make so again my point is if the guy is looking to be to make the thing really responsive is he concerned with the compressor map can we still work with the compressor map on the super responsive side and on the maximum effort side how much of both sides of that intersect this compression this compressor map irrespective of the fact that most of the turbos that we choose don't have compressor maps anyway and so it's difficult to it's difficult to even pick that or speculate about it and then again the whole another subject is okay now what do we do to the hot side of that after we pick our compressor map because there's some juggling there and obviously the thousand horsepower turbo that you pick for a or even a 900 horsepower turbo that we picked for our 4 8 is going to be different than the one that we picked for our five three or six oh six two 408 etcetera etcetera and certainly on the hot side it's definitely going to be different but these are the kind of things that i think about while i'm driving and looking around on the internet and answering questions for people and so i think it's important um i i will get people that will argue with me adamantly about turbo stuff oh you got you this you have to pick this one because it's way more efficient i'm like look i know how to read a map i understand it i can look at that island and go hey we're at this in a power level we're at this much boost they intersect right here this is where the map part is this is where we'd be running and this is awesome except that what happens if we don't run it there what if we're running it at less booth than that and less power than that what happens we're going to get more boost and more power than that then all we're doing if we're running at more boost all we're doing is transitioning through there at some point and while that might be beneficial a little bit the reality is the maximum effort guys are not there and and i think to some extent the guys that want the thing to be real responsive are also not there so let me know what you guys think and that's what we'll get started our conversation for tonight let me know how you guys are doing and uh let me know what you think about this let me let me know what you guys think about the compressor map stuff and and and tell me if you if you think that there's any any merit to any of this stuff sounds like a g it sounds like i need a gt35 on my big block mode part where the revolution 3 800 that would be good that's a diesel right that that was a whole nother conversation that i was going to have tonight i i've i got some emails from a guy that wants to make a gas version more you know he's kind of trying to replace a diesel version with a gas version maybe that would be an interesting conversation that we can have later on and we'll talk about the things that you could do to make that better i might do a video on that because always good to get comments and and suggestions from people out there yes the fact okay so from all that chris you're just okay a thousand horsepower turbo it is l86 aluminum five three with twin ebay gt45s and a dual plenum holley that's going to be a lot of that'll be a lot of power that you can make with that combination advisor uh in 1988 about staying out of the surge zone with a 2 liter pin over the to4 v trim at 265 horsepower um dean that's the other thing is you you you would have to look on um you know and that's one of the problems with staying out of the search zone is that's to the far left side as you're looking at the paper um that that happens when you try to put a really big turbo on a small motor so let's say you're trying to make 1000 horsepower with your 2-liter deal it becomes difficult to do because you you can't ever get it to make enough power and then enough boost to make enough power and it's it can become problematic if you want to make a thousand horsepower get a thousand horsepower turbo that's that's good advice i'm still trying to decide between a 7875 gen 2 t4 and an 88 millimeter t6 from vs racing it just depends on what your those two things will suit different power needs obviously an 88 it could make a lot of power he moved up the cam size to let the oversized turbo do more work well what what you're doing there dean is you're increasing the power output of your n a motor so you're changing where you would be on the map and and i'm a big proponent of that if you like i said if you if the one liter sprint is a good example but that motor makes about 50 horsepower or so n a so if you're trying to make 300 horsepower with that it takes a lot of boost but if we can improve the power output of that n a motor to 70 80 90 horsepower which would be a lot um if you can do that you're going to change your position dramatically on the map and you're going to make it easier to get to any power level at a lower boost level and that's nothing but good let's see 7875 gen 2 or 88 millimeter t6 on lq4 with ls3 heads uh if you're only looking for 800 to 900 wheel horsepower the gen 2 will certainly do that that will be up near the limit of what it can do so if you want more room to play with the 88 would be but an 88 with a t6 is gonna be um a little softer obviously karen i have a daily driver truck with a 5.3 i'm looking at an s475 i only want to make 500 ish uh an s472 or an s468 those would be better than the s475 you don't need an s475 even the small t4 ones that we have that we ran as twins it works but 500 is is like gt45 kind of territory you put something small on there the only way to know if you're choosing the right turbo is to compare the massive measurements with power level that's actually not the only way that's one way how big is too big well it depends on what you're trying to do like i talked about one of the problems with going too big on the turbo is you get into surge and if you don't have enough n a power to work with that big turbo it makes life difficult um that's where you have to compound it or put nitrous on it five three two in turtle eventual goal of 1200 a wheel horsepower as a daily commuter yeah i can we wanted to get 50 miles a gallon too i'm sure crash any thoughts on timing sets for like i don't know what you mean by timing sets like the time of years we use factory timing gears on all of our stuff i'm building a 4.3 they're just about done got got a cam part heads valve springs port intake it's got a blower on it 10 pounds of boost i'm trying to get 400 horsepower out of it with headers uh you can do over 400 with a 403 without any problem with the blower on it just has to have the right blower on it we did that with the um with the uh torque storm um and we've done that with turbos also how is six liter gen 3 can 4 l80 with a gt45 out of 15 a gt45 is um getting near the hot side limit on a 6 liter so it's not going to make a lot of power um 600 at the tire would is going to be a fairly high back pressure on a 6 liter on a gt45 looking for a cheap small turbo for 125 horsepower on a 1.2 liter i think that the uh look at the volkswagen turbos the you look for a used vw 1.8 t turbo it would be good for that i can understand selecting a turbo to be efficient at cruise rpm the there's the turbo selection it doesn't matter at cruise rpm because there's no boost there's no pressure um when you're cruising down the road it's not produced it's not doing anything you could put any size turbo you want on it to for it to cruise well yeah dean i you know and i've talked about that statement that every cam is a turbo cam it just doesn't matter i mean there are turbos cams that are better for turbo applications definitely are and especially if you're trying to make lots and lots of power but for most of us in the thousand horsepower and less range and even even higher than that actually if you pick a camshaft that makes the power curve that you want and then you just add boost it's still going to be that power curve and you can even manipulate that power curve if you have an electric boost electronic boost controller especially one that's um is a function of rpm then you can tailor the curve you can have it you can have a rising boost curve out of the top so you can have a pull on the big end if you wanted to do that um that's why i like doing the cam like that rather than oh i got to have a blower cam because of this valve event and all that stuff i don't i don't look at it that way the mopar magnum videos will come out after we run the mopar magnum on the dyno nitrous is good anti-lag uh crash i've never run double roller stuff on an ls there it takes a lot of work and to do that and i don't think it's i i haven't found it to be necessary two valve heads versus four valve heads on the same displacement and turbo what would we want to expect on the performance of the engine if the two valve head if the four valve head makes more power than two valve head which you would expect it to do like if you were comparing a four valve um four six mod motor versus a two valve four six mod motor the four valve is gonna make a lot more power so then it's going to make more power at any given boost level when you add a turbo so would an s480 be about perfect for a thousand wheel horsepower on an lq4 with camera heads uh yeah you could do that with an s480 that's that's right in that wheelhouse and a one and a 110 is going to work on an lq4 um you could go bigger than that um trying to think if you could i think on the like on the s475 i think the t6 stuff was like a 132 and i think you could be out in that range too on a on a um lq4 because a six liter is going to be fairly torquey yeah gt25 on a 1.2 i was i was thinking that we ran when i did the sprint motor which is a one liter i think we ran gt20s um we ran gt20 from garrett but i also ran the um 1.8 turbo the factory turbo on the volkswagen and that worked very well it um it had good response rate and made good power um and guys were giving those away because everybody was was uh upgrading their volkswagen turbos because they're those things are tiny uh jim i don't know about that turbo um i don't know about that specific turbo it looks like if it's an 88 millimeter that that sizing would be big enough i just don't know how they designed it for the detroit diesel application obviously they weren't thinking 1200 horsepower when they did it s460 83 t4 1.1 are yeah i don't even think it needs to be that big karen i think i think probably a 366 would probably be enough for what you're talking about a gt3582 will make we've made 500 at the tire with that but on a smaller motor i don't know if it has the hot side flow for that old school small block 406 what turbo cam ignition said it works best uh whenever we run any of the small block stuff we run an msd with an ignition amplifier like a 6al on it um what i did you need rich you need to tell me how much power you want to make but thousand horsepower is going to be an s 475 or so do you think a bigger throttle body better for the 403 i'm doing or ported one um i if you're if if you're blowing through it you don't have to really worry about throttle body size yamaha sega turbo there's og that's that's like i think that that's yamaseka turbo came after the 500 the 500 turbo right my yamaseka turbo was also in boost at 70 mile an hour cruise how could the turbo be making boost at cruise rpm with a closed throttle where where is it making boost at unless it doesn't have a bypass valve it's not uncommon to see boost at cruise i i don't know how you i don't know how you see boost i had all the turbo cars i've ever owned at cruise when you're cruising down the road like down the freeway they're running under vacuum not even just a little bit of vacuum quite a bit of vacuum twin packs in novi 1000 462 valve what you recommend for wide open throttle time i don't know about pump gas stuff i don't ever run pump gas stuff it doesn't tell me what kind of boost you're running either and whether that thing's intercooled is it possible to predict how quick a turbo will school by using the map no not on the compressor side for boost at cruise rpm i was thinking about engineering projects with tiny displacements not for performance wrong audience here no this is the right audience but it's interesting to a mile per gallon so well if you're trying to get high mile per gallon you wouldn't want to be running under pressure then having no q4 or the 132 s 480 that's kind of what i was thinking ryan in a stage 2 turbo cam and it's a bc that should make plenty of power the s480 should be that's that's a four digit uh power level turbo um kyle the twin gt3582s are a thousand horsepower turbos for the two of those if you want to step up the cheap way to do it or the the gt45s um there's obviously intermediate stuff in between there the gt45s could go to like probably 13 or 1400 um but they're really inexpensive uh more power for my 225 turbo slant six any suggestions for turbo and carb yeah i i on that one i think a gt3 like the um the max speeding guys sent some gt3582s i think that they would be good on that one um the i'm trying to think we had a 62 or 67 millimeter precision also that would be that worked pretty well for that the t76 that that um cx racing has something or something around that size uh i think worked pretty well and a carburetor we would run a blow-through four-barrel carburetor on there i learned about boost modulation with a 1275 a series nice is it is it in a mini cooper svo style to 3 40 turbos yep turbo probably is too big for 78 cubic inches stop breaking yeah those are cool motors though and um i met a guy and you might be interested in this dean um i met a guy who what did he do oh he had a mini cooper an old one with a 1275 in it and he put a four valve bmw motorcycle engine head on it and then turbocharged it with a and he had an eclipse intercooler and he had um made his he cast his own front cover for the head and the timing chain and stuff this guy was awesome and i got i went for ride in and he was running like 20 pounds in this thing and it was really really fast and fun it was awesome uh dylan i think you could run the t6 flange on that on on an s480 with a with a six liter gonna put some decent heads on the magnum yeah i would like to try some some kind of head 4200s in the house what benefit do you find with an msd i we like running at ignition amplifier when we're running boosts on the small block stuff um we bring the gap down and the other thing is on a distributor we obviously don't have the you don't have the coil energy um on a distributor with a single coil that you do on a especially at higher rpm that you do on a multi-coil deal because the because of the rise time there's less time for the charge to happen and for the the coil to repower itself basically so we like to have an ignition amplifier and you know it just helps makes us feel better i i wonder where you guys are taking your boost readings under cruise it's it's got to be on the pressure side of the throttle body then because my sprint turbo didn't do that i mean none of the turbo cars that i've owned have ever have ever cruised down the road under boost they cruise down the road under vacuum i'm taking my reading in the intake manifold and not maybe somebody maybe guys are taking them at the turbo which turbo would you personally run on q4 with with ls3 and a street car so you have an lq4 with ls3 heads i'm assuming well if you have a t6 in it you want more response you could go down to the t4 a 3400 stall should be enough for that combination though makes me wonder what can you have nothing i'm talking about i'm talking about cruising on the freeway like at 65 or 70 miles an hour or whatever um i know because when we're like when i was doing it in the sprint um you want to you can feel the enrichment when you go into when you get into boost and so you we have a vacuum and a boost gauge on and you can see it wants to cruise down the road in the right engine speed i even had a boost gauge on my civic vx so that we could keep it in the lean burn i mean you can feel it as a driver i i can you can feel when it goes from um the lean burn into regular you know fourteen seven to one and then and then goes into enrichment um you can feel the different steps as you're doing that but i like having the gauge there so that i knew what to do but like i said on the sprint unless we were going up a grade then you would go into boost a little bit uh devin i don't know that you'd expect more horsepower out of a billet wheel versus a cast wheel it just depends on whether or not they change the design of the wheel when they went from one to the other if it's an exact duplicate and one is just has chock full ability goodness that may just mean it lasts longer it can run more engine speed unless they change the design of it my two liter engine what turbo size do i see the two liter engine is not the thing the you have to look at what the n a power output is and then what the map of the turbo is to see where you would run into surge i know my favorite they no nobody clicks the like they they just come here to talk and nobody's showing any love yeah and ring the bell julius is in the house yeah the tbs has a t6 so if you went down to a t4 it's going to be more responsive um you know i'd like to know what that that that turbo should be fairly responsive on a 6 liter we've run those kinds of turbos a lot but you know now that i think about it i think that the s480 that we run because that's freiburgers and i think it is a t4 uh super rotter you certainly could use two of the gm turbo diesels turbos on your six liter i think that that would work better than one what's the maximum horsepower if i had a turbocharger in my stock 455 volts i i don't know what the maximum is but if you added seven pounds of boost to that thing and you improved the power output by 50 you would notice that it would feel really really good what brand of airwater intercooler you use for down testing the one that we normally use i i have a couple couple of them are from cx racing and the other one was from procharger and we have had issues in the past with other things with cores leaking water primarily that's from us when i say us i mean me um not emptying the cores out and blowing them dry while they sit for four or five or six months or whatever and i think it's just the um electrolysis i think it's just eating away at the core a little off topic with any fox body creature how strong is a factory 8.8 well guys can drag race those a lot um are you trying to are you trying to shock load with a manual trans ly6 799 stage two fast forward s482 s400 sx3 8287 built with title b band 1.16 rear be too large for street and strip looking for a thousand horsepower uh an s482 is um if you're i don't know what you mean by the plus at the end of the thousand if you're wanting to go to 11 or 1200 then that turbo can probably do that um if you're looking for a thousand horsepower less you don't need that big of a turbo would you access a good turbo for a k20 k24 for around 650 horsepower steve take a look at the test that i ran the four different turbos on our k24 and you'll kind of see and they were all run right in that right in that power range and you can kind of see what the response rate is and stuff on an ls 408 with an s475 should i use a two bar i think you're neo you're going to be at at 2 bar you're going to be up near the limit of or up near the maximum flow limit of that s475 i'm certain that your ls408 if it has heads and cam in it it's going to be making you know it should be easily 550 horsepower i would think and then you're gonna get to the flow limit of the s475 i think before you run into um before you get past 14.7 pounds but it's always good to put a three bar or more in my case in there because sometimes you'll top that out you can tristan says you can make 40 free wheel horsepower after camming a magnum 5.9 just by porting unshrouding the valve seats work the dome and add port volume to the tops of the exhaust ports so you need you think a ported head is going to help is a 7875 with a 96 ar work as a substitution for gt45 from vs racing trying to stick with them if possible shock that a sixth leader can spool twin gt45s that's awesome um yeah i mean it's not ideal obviously but it certainly can and it would be more for drag racing if you ran twin gt45s yeah the magnum heads are not ideal but they are a big step up from an la head lancia delta integrale yep those were cool the supercharger was not there to prevent compressor surge it was there so that they could have um more response rate yeah cruz you should be like when we were we did the testing with the um i can't remember if we did with the sprint i think we did it with the civic hatch and we simulated the rpm and load because i had the vacuum gauge on the dyno and in gear in fifth gear and it took about uh it was about ten and a half horsepower to run that mile an hour i think it was 65 um at that load um at that idle not idle but at that vacuum um at that rpm that was the wind resistance and the rolling resistance and all that stuff so it was about 10 horsepower at that engine speed 10 10 and a half i have a 355 with 11 after one compression is it worth boosting um you're gonna have you're gonna have detonation issues with that on a regular small block but you can certainly run some boost on it oh an ls3 long block so it's a 6.2 james that's even better though the displacement should help you with the response rate when i take my boost ratings on the pressure side of the throttle body with the blower every thousand rpm is just over a pound of boost is the that concerns me that you're building pressure i'm assuming that you have the throttle partially close and and that you're talking about pressure on the between the turbo and the throttle body but it concerns me that the the blow-off valve isn't opening to relieve any kind of pressure that would be there have you ever done a test on a comparison between a cast wheel and a billet wheel no i haven't and again i like i said i don't know when they do that if they change the wheel if they don't change the wheel design i wouldn't expect to see any power can you really have a laggy turbo on a v8 ls with something like an s480 or similar yeah an s480 is big enough if you put a t6 s480 on a 48 it's gonna be laggy it definitely is going to be i have a two liter with a t6 vgt i use a vacuum accessory to control the vgt then opens at 15 pounds it works well cool how do you compare the na horsepower output to the compressor map that's that's how this whole thing started with me is from decades back reading compressor maps is that's where this horsepower boost formula comes from it all comes from a compressor map because before you know how much power your motor is going to make at any given boost level that's the bottom one is the flow rate basically and the top one is boost and so the lower one tells you how much it's basically power so for you to know what the power is and where that's going to intersect with the boost level you know you have to know how much n a power your motor makes so before you can do that you can't you can't know where those intersect that's why i when i test i always test the n a power output so then we can know if it's following that formula and doing what it's supposed to do the l67 we're working on we're trying to get it running man tbs has a vs racing 88 any chance you can throw in parasitic and drivetrain losses on your engine dyno results most of us use the chassis dyno we can't add that to the engine dyno um that's that's not what we test there although i have i have video up on drive chain losses and the difference between an engine dyno and a chassis dyno but there's a whole lot to discuss there as we talked about in the video because usually there's a change from the way that it's run on the engine dyno to the way that it's run on the chassis dyno and then a whole another way that it's run from the oems and how they rate their power output so i don't try to compare those ever that's not it's not good it's not good testing if you run your thing on a chassis dyno and you make a change and you run it again you'll see a delta that's all you care about you don't care about what the first number is the second number is you don't only care about the change same thing on engine i know where whatever engine dyno use whether it's a super flow or a hub dino or dts or whatever it is you're just looking for the difference how much did my intake make so when i went from the stock intake it made this mount when i put the other intake on it made this amount it gained this much power it doesn't matter that it happened on this dyno or somebody else's dyno or acid most people recommend using a corrosion inhibitor in the loops for an air water intercooler that's a good idea we used to put water wetter in that and i think that that was pretty good as long as that system was sealed noodles is in the house is it oh is there a fight tonight uh richard by any chance did you look at the manifold i made i was very interested in your opinion yeah you sent me the did was it did it come as an email or did it come as a um a message or something i think i did look at it uh richard whatever happened to the max speeding rods gt3582s we ran two of them on the on the ls i haven't run one of them on the k series though a 600 wheel horsepower i think is beyond the range of that turbo 500 wheel horsepower i think is in the wheel horse but 600 wheel horsepower i think is probably too much factory twin turbo 2.7 liter v6 5 valve motor revs the 7100 converted to single turbo with a pte 5858 with a 6266 getting close to 650 wheel horsepower i i don't know i think that turbo is can do that but i don't know what the n a power output of that motor is and and the rpm that it revs to is is irrelevant uh we're gonna run the k24 a lot more yeah vs has all kinds of in-between turbos there's lots of stuff that you can pick julius does the extra length of intake piping from a turbo to the throttle actually work as an intercooler and a remote turbo setup or is the air traveling too fast in my opinion it's traveling too fast and then there's a boundary layer between the the the airflow and the tube itself so i don't know how much transfer time it gets it gets it gets more transfer time when there's not a lot of flow but that's not when you need it um i think it could help a little bit but i don't think it works like an intercooler does how efficient are the next gen vs racing 7875 the gen 2 stuff is like a thousand horsepower turbo so it will do that have you ever used matchbot on barcorner's website going to see pressure ratios and compressor maps is pretty handy yeah i've taken a look at their stuff afr heads those are good vr6 swap your gt3582 isn't gonna cut it at a thousand wheel horsepower but two of them definitely would uh pro charge mopar let me know what happens when you get done porting those i'm curious to see how well they flow speaking of boost made a change on the air dairy intercooler cross section increased two to one to two and a half one big change in engine response do so do you mark do you think that the intercooler was restricted for you uh i don't have the specs on that pte 62 millimeter steve unfortunately that and that turbo's gone i gave it to a buddy of mine who's gonna run it on this nsx gm advertised 12 horsepower 60 mile an hour for the sunford and the mid 60 see that's that's right in the kind of range that i was thinking uh db we use stock rockers on all the stuff that we've run so they're they work just fine if you want to put um a trending upgrade on them it's not a bad idea especially i i take a look at the rockers too one of the things i noticed on a lot of the rockers when we get something that's two or three hundred thousand miles on you turn the rocker over and look at the push rod cup it was really really shiny they get worn um and then and then obviously look at the slide or two and see how worn that is because unfortunately the training upgrade doesn't fix either one of those so you're going to have a change in neces or required push rod length if there's a bunch of wear on either one of those do better flowing ls heads hurt low mid-range torque due to larger intake port size take a look at the lucky for you all of that information is up on the channel take a look at this big cylinder head test and you can see if any of those hurt that they're definitely not going to hurt mid-range and they're probably not going to hurt low speed either so take a look and you can see compared to the stock head uh let's see can well you can make an educated guess based on the engine characteristics someone needs to said richard and eight what is the eight an eight eight to one i'm sure that that's a uh that's my map sensor uh we mult on the maps we multiply the lower number by 10 and this is boost on this side and you multiply this number down down below like this number like right down here what right right down here multiply that number by 10 that gives you the power output this side does boost that intersection tells you but you got to know you got to know the n a number i get a lot of slack from people telling me i will have a slow response rate from long intercooler pipes but i've never had an issue with intercooler piping affecting response rate take a look at the video that's up where i did the response rate we change we dramatically change not just the length but also the size the diameter of the intercooler and to see if that part of it had a change in response rate and we know that changing the exhaust length like in and that was a extreme example where we had about 14 feet of exhaust on a twin turbo deal that was already kind of laggy to show what effect the exhaust had but then i also did it on the compressor side so take a look that video is up noodle see it was uh the convertible is a metro yeah they didn't make us they didn't make a um chevy sprint turbo convertible now somebody could have done it but um and really a a metro xfi with a turbo on it would kind of be cool too i would like that i and i actually like the rounded versions of the later metros more than i like the body style of the sprint but they didn't they stopped making it before they changed that rounded by so i think it's more aero and it might be even might even have better fuel mileage um but i like the turbo sprint because they're kind of cool and quirky oh admiral my ma is 605 horsepower well that's a really good start 605 horsepower and 598 foot-pounds at the at the rear tire is that is that from a big block or something then you're going to be testing different size exhaust tubing for response rates i've read that the smaller size benefits as long as it doesn't create much back pressure well that that sends the logic and reason and that's one of the things i wanted to test more on the remote stuff than on the on the y-pipe things i think ultimately in in the power levels that we're looking at and flow rates that we're looking at the turbo hot side is the restriction in the sediment it's not the size of the tubing especially my suspicion is that the we normally run the factory exhaust manifold so i think that the factory exhaust moles of anything might ultimately become more of a restriction than the y-pipe does unless we went down to maybe two inches or something like that i didn't run a blow-off valve hoping i could stay under boost have you ever thought about putting a turbo on your truck and if you did what would it be i put turbos in my truck like in the bed and in the back seat but never one on there because it has a um 4060 e that's made of glass and and it will break if i put a turbo on it even if i set a turbo next to it i think it will break uh julius what what you can do is if you do this if you do your test and you run the straight pipe um and i and i wanted to do this when we ran the test and maybe i'll try that in the dyno the problem with the straight pipe thing is where guys run it if you run a remote setup and you run the the tubing underneath the vehicle does it get lots of airflow like what temperature is the pipe at because if guys are worried about it cooling are they also worried about it heating which i don't think happens either but what i would want to see is what's the temperature differential what's the the temperature coming out of the turbo and then at the end of that pipe going into the manifold or even the temperature in the manifold i would kind of like to see it at different spots to see if it is changing the air temperature let's see if it does that clayton other than surge unless turbine life right are there any other concerns for not running a bov um that's not enough that it damages the turbo um and then heats the air up for the next time you open the throttle there's lots of bad stuff you shouldn't do it uh dragon dragon i do have a friend with an nsx as a matter of fact not only does he have an nsx but he's swapping the nsx he's swapping a his is a 3 2 so technically it's a big block in the nsx it's a 3 2 j series honda motor in it which would be very very cool with the turbo it's jimmy my buddy from hp and he's the guy that did the turbo that i had on my nsx back in the day 1991 i think it's a 91 back in the day and they did it they did a single turbo on mine and we turned it up i think he turned it up to 525 or something at the tire so it did good it was a lot of fun i drove it around at about 400 or 420 at the tire i think i'm pumped guess and it and it worked very well and that's one thing that i love that car i would call it the japanese ferrari and it was awesome because it was like having a really like having a civic but a really really good looking one but the thing that neat did it you know it only had 270 horsepower i think something like that it needed more power and i used to win a lot of races in against guys and corvettes because the one thing that car did was hook up really well and took off so i knew how to get the thing to leave a light really well and guys in corvettes would usually get over anxious and they had more power and they could win ultimately but they couldn't get off the line so they would spin the tires and and so then i would just work them over at the lights it's pretty fun but once we had the turbo on there it was a different story the thing was the thing was a lot of fun uh tristan the take a look at the the i think the guys from um summit have the 408 stroker stuff i've put um speedmaster stuff in we've run lots of different stuff yeah i agree tim it is it's risky to put it in the truck even if we don't even stand next to the truck and talk about turbos because if we do we know that it's listening and the transmission goes oh no no no no i'm all done here yeah texas speed btr those guys all should have stroker kits yeah the blow-off valve doesn't open up under boost the boost the boost makes it close so do you have a mark do you have that stuff mapped out so you can see the change in response can you see a do you have a dyno where you're showing the response response rate or some sort of data logging or something that's kind of showing what's going on we do want to do a big bang on the 4200 uh tim it is a j32 because he's he wanted an inexpensive way to replace that have you ever heard of jfr racing yeah we've used their cams as a matter of fact i ran their camp for a really long time after after we did the testing on the 4.8 liter where we did the sloppy stage 2 versus the world jfr set one of the cams so we use it i've used that i don't know 10 times now on different tests with that 4.8 liter srt4 turbo on my 26 horsepower v-twin briggs that's a big turbo for that motor um brad there's lots of cheap t3 turbos that you could make um the for a d series lots of those online how much horsepower twin gt35 is worth on a five three they'll do a thousand yeah fuel pumps yes also listen you never tell with the total you never tell what the total timing is on videos i almost always tell you what the total timing is i don't tell you what the curve is normally because we don't go into that into that much detail but i almost always tell you what the total timing is real time racing yes i raced against petey cunningham i know those guys real time racing around supercharged nsx and imsa back in the 90s yes they did and they even ran a blow-off valve to regulate the boost on from the supercharger they ran a vortec on it and used the blow-off valve wastegate on the cold side to regulate boost pressure because they were limited in boost pressure by the scca so what they wanted to do was if they were limited at let's say 10 pounds they wanted to have 10 pounds just not at the top of the rpm range they wanted to also have 10 pounds back here so they spun the blower up and then open the wastegate bypass valve to regulate it at 10 pounds it worked pretty good now 460 will have a long happy life with about two and a half pounds of boost more than that figure on cubic bucks to make it live uh an s 480 will make 1200 flywheel horsepower 1200 wheel horsepower gets a little bit um a little closer to the limit yes accufab racing when you do one of those big bang episodes you should go for ridiculously high rpm usually the big bang stuff is more about power would you consider doing a video on timing yeah i was thinking about that today um i wanted to show what the what the different scale is for like when we do i'll show you how we do an n a motor and show you what the curves look like and then show you what the subsequent curves look like like at each boost level so as we go up you know depends on what um what map sensor we have our holley set at for how many uh how much scaling we have and how many cells there are but as we go up for each cell i can say okay look we went from you know 100 kpa up to whatever the next jump was um we took out three degrees of timing or one degree of time or whatever it is and show you each step what they because as we go up in as we go up and boost we're taking timing away and also as we go down in rpm and up in boost we're taking timing away as we go up in rpm we're adding timing so same thing as the n a curve so there's less timing down low and more at the top and the same thing happens on the turbo but also as we go up and boost we take away timing so the curve looks a little bit different under boost i can show you all that stuff and show you what we do and kind of where we are um the thing that i won't that you won't get to see is you won't get to see any of the drivability or transition or any of that stuff because i don't do any of that i don't i honestly don't care about it anymore to the point i don't have time to do all of that stuff while i'm on the engine dyno because that's not what we're trying to show we're trying to show what it does so it just needs to go like from idle the these needs to transition you know up to full throttle and then go at whatever boot level we're running it at but i can show you what all the timing looks like that's fairly simple will the 6l80 support my 4.3 with twin gt4s without much work done to it i think it's going to take work for that kind of level uh 17 pounds and otherwise stock vortech motor that's a lot best thing about an s s10 is getting axle hop and destroying the motor mounts i'm surprised it doesn't destroy more than that yes vortech boost modulation it was that was it was good stuff and and pd knows how to drive there's no doubt about that and that nsx was awesome happy hour for one 78 or 76 75 pt that's like the one that we use although we had the the heisute cea double throw down bill wheel stuff um six liter up your nine 317 heads what power do you think it'll make i've no idea because i don't know what boost you're talking about and i don't know what cam you have but and it depends on what 7675 it is because like the cx racing one it their 76 millimeter is like a 700 horsepower turbo maybe and then the one that i got from um precision was like a 1200 horsepower turbo it's a big difference in just the in just the new numerical designation more interested in just timing fundamentals okay well that's what that's what i would show you with that with a timing video what's my opinion on modern hemis i like them they they have really good cylinder head flow they have good intake manifold just like an ls all they need is camshaft we've done lots of boost on them they make lots of power the later stuff with the even better heads are even more impressive and the dual runner intakes i really like the hemi stuff on a vvt motor that pings on proper fuel i don't know what you mean by proper fuel but what do you adjust first cams or ignition timing i i would do ignition timing but again i'm the last guy you want to listen to for drivability and stuff i'm not a tuner so there may be guys out there that know what the answer to that is that's the first thing that i would try and see if that worked because i don't ever do hp tuners or any of that so i might not be the right guy to listen to take an ls get a can that's good for 9000 rpm that's not just a cam that's a lot more stuff besides a cam those 3000 horsepower ls motors are running 8700 um a 3 000 horsepower ls motor is not just a camed ls motor that's a dedicated build that costs a million dollars what size turbo and cam do i need for my cuisinart to make 60 margaritas an hour after about the fourth one i don't know that i would recognize that there were 60. uh how can i trust a professional chassis dyno tune and know the correct place using hp tuners are remote tunes and data logging better uh i'm not the guy to answer that um i like chassis down tuning because after we run stuff on the engine dyno it needs to be done on the chassis dyno anyway because the engine configuration is going to be different it's going to be running at a different temperature and stuff and that's going to be more realistic compared to what we do it has an optimized like uh amount of air going to it and it's cold and all that stuff so the i like having stuff done on the chassis dyno and even then even after the guys that do it like ish and eric at west tech do it on the chassis they always go out and street drive it to make sure that it does what it's supposed to do out on the street uh so i guess turbo guys don't care about rpm so you die hurt your feelings or something by saying what i said and you don't you can't use universal stuff turbo guys care about rpm because obviously those turbo motors are if they're making 3000 horsepower they're running turbo motors at that rpm so what are folks doing for transmissions when they get to six eight hundred or a thousand horsepower they're not using a 4060 they're using a 480 probably or an or a power glide or a turbo 400 let's see allen f2 pro charge 434 small block chevy csu blow through ice intercooler making 13 30 and 8 79 the tires see that's a good combination that makes a lot of power where's the pizza fumble boosts a cruise for a mile per gallon a turbo compressor can be more efficient air pump than a piston captures waste power from the exhaust pulses need tiny displacement like full throttle like cruise i i understand what you're saying about eliminating pumping losses if that's what you're talking about but eliminating pumping losses on an n a motor is not the same as having boost if you're running boost on it typically what guys do is bring timing down with boost and also bring fuel in so that's usually not ideal for fuel mileage 4.6 by 4.6 horn stroke big block okay a v12 application 15 liters what size turbo is your direct man 6500 rpm meant to haul like an eight so are you are you using it for torque or something to just to just supplant the diesel or are you trying to make power with it no flex i understand what you're saying it's really really hard to run eight nine thousand rpm motors because it's it's really really expensive to do that um we could take a uh like i recently with the guys from brian tully racing we've run 7 500 stuff a lot um he just ran one of the junkyard motors that he had to 8 000 but guys aren't out there doing that i don't think very often rpm is is hard on motors i know guys say that with turbos that it's not but it is if you run a motor at 2000 rpm it will run indefinitely as you go up an engine speed it won't do that anymore um motors have a number of cycles they cycle they have a cycle life and so if you increase the number of rpm you're going to have a earlier cycle life and in my opinion rpm is not good for motors i don't like rpm so running lots of rpm with lots of boost is race motor territory and that's not what these are these junkyard motors are not that and and because of the fact that we can at 6 500 or 7000 rpm make enough power to break something that's stock in the motor there's no reason for us to do it at eight or nine thousand because it's just going to break a lot easier uh palmer i did see the k series based v8 deal had a short conversation with him i think that that's awesome um a j35 would be really cool the 5.9 magnum is not going to be a big bang motor so alan what kind of engines do you have that's why my rotary went bad and the the rotary is another example but i was going to use the example of the b series honda stuff all the guys who wanted to run like their thing was these motors will run to 10 000 rpm yeah they probably will but none of the ones that i ever saw and this was way back in the day none of them made power there they were all way down on the far side of the power curve they'd already made their peak power at 8 000 or 8 500 like all of them did because none of these had ultra short runners or enough ported head or enough cam timing in them to make power at 10 000 rpm they all want odd fastest wire rev them you know it feels good it makes good power yeah but you that's how you break your motor there's no reason to run it there and the same thing with rotor is they think that rotaries will just run infinite rpm but they won't yeah the bigger the motor is the easier it is to make power at a lower engine speed uh and doing running under boost with a diesel is different than running under boost with a gas motor 2500 to 3000 horsepower 585 big block mechanically injected alcohol 1471 two speed power glide 9 300 rpm that's a lot of rpm allen you have 12 a's or 13 b's some of the new all motor eight second honda hatches make power above ten thousand uh yeah the ones i was talking about were b series and this was back in 93 or four probably those are all k-series motors and they and the k-series motors definitely like to rev would there be anything to gain running two identical turbos in series compounded versus parallel uh running them compound is gonna give you more boost if you run them in parallel it's gonna i think it's gonna ultimately give you more airflow so i like running conventional twin turbos and not running them compounded the if you take a look at the um sport compact car that did a 200 wheel horsepower b16 that was probably my story because i did that with a b16 with an ir and cams and stuff but it didn't run 10 000 rpm ap power 8700 building a six liter that's board 30 over with a summit 26 18 forged pistons and h beam rods gap 28 so i'm gonna say two all that sounds good richard i have a few rotary bell housings wow is it is it joyous is it an adapter plate to go from a rotary to a like a conventional small block the 12 8 carburetor does it have a does a 12a have a mikuni carburetor on it yeah palmer i know the guys that did that that's um um that's the guys from honda that's doug and the guys from honda they de-stroked it and it was a 1.5 actually um because they were had to run in a sub 1.5 class and it did it made it did good made good power what would a 53 like rpm limit wise with dual 660 springs in the btr cam 7000 or less i don't know which turbo cam and which intake all those things are going to dictate where it wants to make power i don't uh who could i go to that's still alive and practices phenomenal with intake and head parting what what is an ls what kind of combination is it vinnie a turbo compared to the vortec is going to have a lot more average power so it depends on how much power you want to make but like take a look at the five liter that i did with the g i think we ran a little gt45 on it and it made 500 and or 550 but you certainly could make a lot more than that and then you could go up in size from the turbo from there and you could make as much as a thousand although i wouldn't recommend it on a five liter uh andrew take a look at the twin s475s that we did on the six liter gen three lq4 a thousand horsepower wheel horsepower reliably uh i don't know what you mean by reliably anytime you're trying to make a thousand horsepower it's um you have to do what you need to do you have to put ring gap in it yet but head studs good gaskets the fuel has to be spot on the timing you have to have a good intercooler you have to have good fuel in it not on pump gas you're not going to be able to do that but take a look at all the gen 3 stuff and we ran lots and lots of runs of 1000 horsepower so i think it should you should be able to make lots of passes like that the factory 12a use a gm 180 adapter to suit the holden trimatic three-speed auto uh i don't know what a gm 180 adapter is is it does it would it allow us to run it on a conventional small block chevy bell housing 12a holley probably make around 120 horsepower that's good though it would be cool guys i'd like to see rotary stuff aftermarket bellhousing but there are doctors out there going to remember me that's before i started reading hot rod as an import guy i i'm i'm both i like imports and domestic stuff so i'm i'm more of an obi-wan fan yeah the valve train is going to be a critical element for the do blowfish another random thing you've seen variable intake runner manifolds yes i did the um the four rotor rxset or the four rotor rotary i guess for le mans did that and formula one used to do that too they had sliding trumpets then they weren't just in fixed positions they would slide them during the rpm range as the thing was running because the different runner lengths if you put them in fixed positions they create a sine wave so what they're trying to do is take the top hump of every sine wave and put it in that position as the thing is revving up it's really really cool looking for bob glidden golden era type stuff i'm trying to think of who who does that stuff brian tully might know um who does who can do that stuff because he has rick smith working with him and and rick's pretty sharp on all that all that older stuff are you planning on coming to argentina i i wasn't it would be cool though fiat 128 nice i do like those let's see i ran any cam swap 5-3 with dual springs of 7000 for five years until i spent a rod bearing also ran hard and push rods and trying your upgrades work great until i tried 7 400. we've run lots of stuff at 7 500 without any problem ferrari 812 currently uses sliding trumpets in their production v12 very cool we have a lot of good rotary guys actually eric from west tech is pretty good with rotaries um and i mean we know how to make them work that's not gonna be a problem yes everybody should have john everybody should have a five liter mustang in their life what's the most impressive engine and then turbo that you've seen in your career um for me there isn't one absolute thing i've seen lots of very cool stuff that made lots and lots of good power um you know stuff that mohovets does is insane with that 46 they're usually very specific things like the stuff that i did with a little sprint motor that was awesome not not because i'm awesome just because it was awesome doing what it like when we took it out and set land speed records with it that was great the the first time i did over 200 wheel horsepower on the nab series that was an awesome thing because it hadn't really been done um there's lots of cool stuff the first big bang motor that i did when we did the what we thought was a 5.3 and it turned out to be a 4 8. um i've got a lot watch lots of like real high horsepower stuff run at westec but even low horsepower stuff like i got equally excited about the first time that we ran my dodge 360 and also a small box chevy that we ran when we configured it with a two-barrel manifold and the stock air cleaner and the stock exhaust manifolds and the stock exhaust and it made like 220 horsepower we're like wow that's that's just awful but it's awesome because it's a starting point so there's not one like big horsepower deal um that we did we've done lots of uh really cool stuff and also i've been lucky enough to see stuff from qazi and dutweiler and those guys that do you know really impressive stuff it's kind of awesome the stock bottom end 5.7 a gt45 would be good for that having problem melting inlet air temp sensors before you showed me how important intercoolers are that's that means it's too hot if it's melting the sensor that's bad yeah the the guys in brazil i think are doing the um push rod fords and the and the 292 chevys too i think is the aussie five their intake different to the american ones i know the throttle bodies on the opposite side so the top of the manhole just turned around i don't know i don't know which five liter one you're talking about i have one of the gt500 the magnesium ones from ford racing um that's the only one that i have though my 2.3 little thunderbird turbo coupe those are great uh marcus just tell me how much power you want let's see for the cam you did on the 8000 rpm small block ford what lsa would you recommend i don't want a super sharp punch but i don't want the rev range between white wall to be dull between uh i'll say i'll take a look we ran two of them i ran one from brian thule racing and i ran and i still have those cams if anybody's interested i might ran one from brian thule racing and one from billy at comp and they're different configurations they both allowed the motor to run to 8000 rpm they made a little bit different power brian's made more kind of average power billy's made a little bit more peak so again it's always a trade-off between what you want and where you want it yeah sliding trumpets are awesome because changing the runner length has a dramatic effect on the power curve steve morris does build some great stuff i i like watching his stuff he you know he's he's like um tom nelson they build really super powerful stuff and height and high dollar stuff uh dean how do you make 395 horsepower from one two barrel webber my phone's messing up it's a 332 with 9.1 9 or 10 pounds well the vortech fmu and intercooler work with the turbo the inner core is actually kind of small from the vortec it's limited in power we know that we've run it on a couple of different combinations and it limits the power output it doesn't have enough flow rate the fmu is not what i would use for fuel management it's definitely old school um you need to take timing away so the timing and the airfield need to be fairly precise and it's going to be more critical on a turbo because you're going to have a you might have 150 more foot-pounds of torque at 3 500 or 4 000 rpm with the turbo than you did with the vortec so you're going to have a lot more cylinder pressure and a lot more chance for detonation so you got to be spot on on your on your tuning for that uh cj send me an email and i'll and i'll let you know where the cams are center forward falcon 5 leader injected manifold so are you talking julie are you talking about a 5 liter coyote motor or mod motor or a 5 liter um og 302 you know 1988 mustang alan you're lifting heads at 30 psi and 85 um we've run that kind of boost on stuff and we haven't lifted the head so we on ours when we were that high like on the six liter big bang motor we ran the ca6 25 head studs and mls gaskets just those were ls9 gaskets i believe that we ran um are you sure it's not detonating are you do you have the timing right on it you you should be running very low timing it should be down in the teens at 30 pounds with the 85. we like to run when we ran the big bang on it we ran 118. yeah i don't know that you're going to get an 8 000 rpm 363 stroker nice average power i i don't know that you can get all that it's gonna if you have an 8 000 rpm motor it's going to be peaky uh palmer i've never seen those five-cylinder motors but i do want to run the five-cylinder family version of the 4200 though the afr220 heads are good so alan you're at you're at 32 degrees with 30 psi and you want to know why you lifted the heads do you think 8000 rpm would be nice for the 112 lsa i you're you have to talk more than just the lsa that's not what's going to determine the rpm degrees total f2 pro charge afr oh so this is an old school small block not an ls right okay guys we've yeah we've been here a long time been in here an hour and a half are you guys keeping here so long i have to get going gonna start a war here but is a coyote or less better in terms of performance not counting price uh i don't know what you're talking about i don't know which ls you're talking about which ones you're comparing that you would put those in different cars and stuff both of them can make lots and lots of power but the the reason that people buy ls motors and don't buy coyotes is because of price you can go down the wrecking yard and get one for a few hundred dollars you can't do that with a coyote so it wouldn't matter if they were a hundred times better which they're not they cost a hundred times as much the 706 heads with titanium retainers would be theoretically better for rpm um but it's not just the valve train weight um it's also the stability of the camshaft that determines what if you get valve balance or float and stuff so it's not just more spring rate and less weight although the less weight does help stuff thank you guys for showing up and i will see you guys later um i don't know when i'll be back on we're working on some stuff and i'll let you know about that the next time we come back on we've got some more videos coming up we are going to be doing the i want to be i want to do the um compressor map steps so we can talk about that and show you what's going on and where it's going on and why it's going on all of that we've got some good stuff on a og small block we went from stock basically to modified and then boosted so we've got some cool stuff coming up and then obviously we have the 4200 stuff coming back up we're gonna run even more boost with that lots of cool stuff coming up thanks for showing up guys i will talk to you later

Channel: Richard Holdener

Views: 11,123

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Id: yNHjtVHXa0I

Length: 93min 4sec (5584 seconds)

Published: Sun Jun 06 2021