LET'S TALK TECH-243 VS 862

hello richard holden here we're live it's like uh some sometime after seven or something yeah it's about 15 after we're getting a little bit of late start i had much stuff i had to do before we got on board in my new btr swag that i got from brian that's the only way that i get new clothes is somebody somebody actually sends me a shirt or something which is awesome so today or tonight we're going to talk about an interesting test i did i'm going to be doing a video on it a full video on it it it's it's the oh it's the often compared uh 706 862 heads versus the 243s as you guys will remember i did comparisons of this long ago where we i tested the 706 which is the same as the 862. the 243 the 241 which is the ls1 head and the 317 and ran all the stock heads i ran them all on a 5.3 to show because that was the most common motor that people would use by the way if you're thinking of getting using one of those heads and you have a 4 8 use the smaller head use the 706 862 head um and we ran the test and the 706 had made the most power on the 5.3 it's a small board the head's designed for that it has more than enough airflow to support the power level that we were testing and then to because everyone was screaming about it i did another test where we compared the 706 head to the 790 and that we had 799 799 243 same head so we compared those to the each other on a cam 6 liter on a combination where it made more power and needed more head flow and it could take advantage of if anything could take advantage of the extra head flow offered by the 243 over the the 706 head and you know not strangely enough on the on the more powerful motor the 243 had made a little bit more power at the top it made about 10 or 12 more horsepower which is a which is a fair bit but down below 5000 rpm it lost power compared to the um 706 head and a lot of guys want to point to compression the difference was only like two ccs or two and a half cc so it's not very much of a compression change it's more likely that it's the [Music] brian dooley's coefficient of discharge the smaller valve the smaller port you know all of those things can contribute to making more torque not just a change in compression there are a couple of things going on with that comparison and for years i've been telling people about that that hey on a53 you need to use this head you need to make this work well we we did another test um because brian's a a huge fan of that i'm looking for some flow data here um brian is a big fan of the 243 and 799 head and rightfully so because they flow very well they work very well they make lots of power everybody recommends them because it's hard to go wrong with that head and especially like ported versions of that i'm looking over here am i all fuzzy now come on come on stupid camera there we go um i was looking for some flow data but the um in that comparison where the 6-0 could utilize that the smaller motor really couldn't and the the the smaller head did better on certainly on the smaller motor and better up to 5000 on the bigger motor so everyone was saying hey you need to mill the 243 head to make it even and i just wanted to test the stock stuff but we redid that test because brian as i said is a big fan of the 243 and all the gen 4 stuff seems to come with that 243 799 combination or at least a lot of them do certainly the l33 and the lc9 and a lot of different combinations come with that other head they just combine it with a flat top piston so that it has basically the same compression as it had with the other combination so it got me thinking well you know one test just like we were talking about last night with the rod ratio or the connecting rod length thing one test in that case with the rods it was actually three but one test of this is not enough or two tests or how many ever tests i've run this 706 versus different stock heads a number of times but always using the same heads to do it so it's not surprising that we would come up with the same data so we tried the different sets of heads this time but both heads that we got when i was back with the guys are brian tooley and as i said i'm going to be doing a complete a full video on this but what we did was ran he's got a gen 453 it was a vvt motor we removed the vvt we put a camshaft in it it's got a trailblazer ss the late model intake manifold um oddly enough it had 102 millimeter throttle body on a 90 millimeter opening and they had to space it out a little bit to get it to open and i don't think that that affects anything but and and they have the their dino headers that they want which i think are i need to check and see if they're inch at three-quarter inch and seven eighths probably engine seven eights given so that they could run lots of different things on it so we ran a set of what we did was we ran a set of 243 heads on this cam 5.3 meter on this gen 4 5.3 liter we ran the 243 heads then we ran a set of 862 heads then we ran a set of big valve 862 heads then we ran a set of the standard size valve 862 heads but had chamber work and they were milled back down to their their standard compression ratio then we did uh then they did the guys brian and brandon from from you know total engine airflow fame did some what i would call basic hand porting not not anything at all like uh you know the stage two stuff that you would get from total engine airflow back in the day or now just more like what the average guy could do in fact in fact it was interesting in talking to brian and brandon that they had never uh they couldn't ever remember porting a set of these 862 heads with stock valve sizes part of the upgrade on from total engine airflow back when brian was doing it and even now is they put a bigger valve in it put a bigger intake valve in it and i think that they put a bigger exhaust valve in it too and that obviously changes what they're doing to the porting to accommodate that valve size and when they're done with those heads they flow a lot they flow over 300 cfm so they're we've used those heads a number of times and they flow very well and they make really good power as a matter of fact i think the very first set of ported ls heads that i ever ran were these ported 706 heads from brian way back in the day and they work very well but these were not that but the the interesting thing about all this and only the live guys get get kind of a sneak peek on this a sneak preview of what what happens with the video that i'm going to go into detail on we'll give you the air flow data and the power and all that stuff but has anybody out there in ls land ever heard of a set of 243 heads stock ones stock valve size no porting have you ever heard any that flow over 270 cfm because i never have and that's what these heads flowed and we float them several times just to make sure now i i do have to say and this is the next question um i i do have to say that the uh we did flow them on a 4125 bore fixture because that's what we had at the time i'm going to be doing that comparison i'm going to do a comparison coming up on cylinder heads flowing them we'll do a we'll flow them on like a 3 7 800 or three eight hundred bore and then we'll go up to a three nine hundred a four inch and and maybe we'll go all the way up to four 125 to see if there's a change in airflow from the change in bore size now we know that there can be because we know that there's valve shrouding but the valve shrouding really is going to happen more in the chamber unless you continue with that bore size that is the same as the chamber all the way down so my question is how much do you think that um [Music] the 243 head how much do you think that they can the flow can increase if we flow it on a bigger bore fixture um we've done that in the past i just haven't flowed hundreds of heads i can't remember what the change was i don't remember it being dramatic um you know i i think it would be more dramatic if you went down to a small bore size and the chamber opening and the valve size needed a you know it was designed for a 4125 or like an ls7 style like if we float an ls7 head on a 3780 bore fixture that's probably going to hurt it but if we flow the heads on the board fixture that they're designed to operate in and then go up from there i don't think we see as big a game so it'll be interesting i'm going to test that and we'll i'll be able to give you that data to find out but these 243 heads made more than the 862 heads and i haven't had that happen in the past and and it's almost like they continued to do that no matter what we did to these 862 heads um the the big valve heads actually did very well so i'm going to go over the results of all of that stuff but when i flow haven't done this a number of times when i flow a 799 head or a 317 head or 243 head they're always flowing more in the mid to high 240s maybe 250 range um and let's see we flowed that one on a four inch that when i floated we poured it floated on a four inch bore picture and then the exhaust was around 200 197 on the on the 317 and i was trying to dig up the i think i have somewhere i know that i do in my stack of papers here i just need to dig it out i have the flow numbers for all of the heads and i can look that up and see but they weren't anywhere near what this had flowed and we had i i looked at the head and couldn't see anything obvious about like i said there was no pouring um the valve was staying we measured the valves the valves were standard size the radius entry was the same as we used on everything else the only thing that was weird was the big bore fixture but again i've never flowed 243 heads and changed the morph exercise to see if that did it but we also ran the smaller head on the on the boar fixture size and it flowed about what i would expect the the stock um 862 head to flow i mean it kind of matched what i was doing which was in the uh you know low 240 range so let me know let me know what you guys think uh that's that's another example of why we dyno test these things and and why when we do these projects they don't always it's not just okay we think that this is going to happen and then we go through the motions and then that happens that doesn't always happen sometimes things like this happen and then we have to scratch our head and go back and figure out what the heck was the real deal because for me i don't i don't i honestly don't care i don't sell heads and i don't port heads and i don't do anything so this doesn't make any difference to me which one flows more i just want the data so it got me thinking like what is the data is the data from all the testing that i did before is that accurate or is the testing or is the data that we did just recently is that accurate are they both accurate is neither one of them accurate should i just not do this anymore and and maybe get a job like cooking french fries or something so that that that's all the stuff that goes through your mind so let's see what you guys are doing uh 8 23 heads are square port heads that's an ls3 head or an ls3 style head both the the 243 and the 706 heads the ones that i tested were better than the 317 heads that's a big change in compression that's a one that's a full point or so compared to uh when you compare a 706 to a 317 and not only did i do that we did that n a and we did it turbocharged and run at the same boost level we saw the same thing they were still a fairly sizable difference in power i bought two sets of 863 aftermarket heads with 205 157 valves have not installed them wait a minute uh john are you talking about an 862 head or an 823 head i'm sure that that's a typo there i just don't know which one it is it would be odd for an 823 head to have a 205 157 valve package because normally there are two 165 so that would be a lot bigger yeah raymond that's the kind of numbers i'm talking about this is looking like it's 20 better and i just don't think that that's there from the more fixer size but i want to test it and make sure i need to buy one of the sloppy stage 2 cams off of ebay for 120 and see if they're any good i didn't i didn't buy the 100 admiral i didn't buy the 120 one the one that i got was from i think it was from trick flow it was their version of it um and i think we've run the elgin one too but the elgin one's not nearly that inexpensive though get your hands on the procharger i1 i talked to them about running that that procharger but the control unit on it is fairly expensive though best combo for a 5'3 is a sloppy stage 2 and a 78.75 i'm sure matt would agree with you we used to use offset alignment sleeves on big block heads on 4250 blocks what's an offset alignment sleeve uh tch ink that is the gentleman that supplied the big valve heads and i can tell you that your big valve head with the two inch valve flowed 253 and the exhaust flowed 189.9 so 1 190 cfm and and the stock as cast 862 float 244 but the 243.273 which i don't thanks rex what's going on which i don't understand this is it's this is an odd thing i something's going on that i don't understand i want to try to figure it out caleb says to test the 302 305 307 small black chevy built with identical minus the bore and stroke to see if there's any power difference well those are different displacements though so there's going to be some difference there that's not going to be just a change in boron stroke so ek racing is saying that the flow bench reads high for all of them the other thing that we saw is that we didn't see a big gain in flow from the modifications that we made and we didn't see big gains in power from the modifications either which i thought was very odd yeah bill i do have a lot of fun when i go out and see the guys from btr they're they're good people the 241 head actually did okay it did better than the 317 head alex do you have data on it just to show what it flows before and after if you had pistons to make the compression between 317 and 243 head the same any idea how they compare yeah according to brian they took 317s and milled them so that they were the chamber size was equal to a 243 and the 243 still makes more power because a 317 head a 317 chamber is not just bigger it's different and it doesn't make the same power that the chamber shape does on a 243 it's not as efficient of a chamber what's the best stock head on an lq9 well like i said if you take a look at the video i have up you can pick between a 706 and a um and a 799 and the 799 makes more power but loses low speed so you get to choose which one of those things you like how much do you crazy high level as castell says the like the fastest cast stuff works pretty good uh nate you put an 80 000's gasket in it normally you would go um the other way a stock one would be 53 and then a lot of times guys go down to 41 to raise the [Music] compression mike you're a little bit late but i was late too so it's all good uh jeremy yeah and in the head any test on 317 versus 243 yes in the in the head test that i'm talking about that i have the video up on we tested 706 317 241 and 799 which is the same as a 243 so we tested all of them and we tried more timing and the 317 did want another degree or two of timing for it to make peak power but it's still down compared to the others because it has lower compression and and a chamber that's apparently not as good i have a tsp stage three with a stock a62 with push rods and springs on my four eight and it does okay uh car guy you take a look at the head test and pick which one you like but probably a 243 or 7.99 uh 421 for your compression ratio for a turbo six liter any anywhere in the nine to ten range is fine i need to look up the flow data on the 706. i i thought it was in i thought it was like 239 but when we float it but i can't swear that i need to look the data uh admiral depends on what ls head you're talking about [Music] um yeah your um tch your the big valve head did good it did is i think it did as well as the head that we modified the chamber on brian a ported ls3 although i haven't tested one but a stock ls3 is as good as a fast on a on a rec port head but the ported one should be even better the small tubing that aligns the head to the oh sorry you're talking about the dowel the head dowels ebay has a company that claims 310 ported you you can get those numbers from a ported ls head from a ported stock ellis head without any problem keith i've never tested a texas speed low lift cam john what's up thank you very much see john knows how to step up he's got game 248 249 okay dan i was looking at the flow on the oh this is a 317 i was looking at yeah slowpoke you can make a 243 go go a good bit over 300. some of the stuff is more like 325 or 330. there's lots of guys that have good programs for those it's a good head to start out with and and it has a lot of potential when you go up and valve size and stuff joseph wants to see a test of a 6-0 board to 6-2 on the with a gen 3 with cathedral port heads so what cathedral port head do you have on there john's here in the house uh keith you can mill those you can mail the 243's you can mail them 30 thousands muscle truck that that combination will work good an lsa blower is going to make everything work well yeah jay i've i've done a few articles i'm the only one foolish enough to do that kind of work well jake that's what we were talking about on the first test that i ran the 706 and 862 would be better but now the set of 243s that we just ran were better so i i don't know which way to go i know john what's up with that 200 we got 300 people watching and 85 likes now so that's that's not a good ratio we're still liking the one-third i you know i'm sorry to take it personally i do want to i do want to run the 292 with the turbo again everything needs a turbo uh larry i don't know if i've seen those i i saw a set of um 243's and some other uh like a an ls3 style head either an 821 or an 823 that the guys from um engine quest i think supplied so maybe those are the china versions of them the guys at west tech ran a test with um john hunkins but they didn't compare them to any of the stock heads so i don't know how well they worked alex i've got a set of ktek uh 862s i damaged one of them and we're going to fix that but they seem to work pretty well 862s are not worthless in my opinion uh trip dog i'm looking forward to the 4200 test that should be coming up pretty soon too [Music] travis just tell me how much power you want to make we'll tell you which head you need to use uh hand ported 243 heads work good pull them pull a marco i guess do heads even matter under boost yes does hand parting the head make much of a difference yeah if the right guy is hand porting it it can make a lot of difference uh msr engineering if you're getting a lot of noise from it something's going on with the design so we don't see that kind of noise from the fast stuff that we run [Music] i think the mic is saying i think the cam matters more than the heads the f it depends on the order that you're doing it in and on a turbo motor because you can make so much power with the stock heads you don't need that the head will still make power if you if you upgrade the head and it and it proves the power n a it will improve the power under boost but the thing is as we always talk about if you have a thousand horsepower turbo upgrading the head doesn't make any difference because you can get to a thousand horsepower you can max the turbo out with the stock head so uh you know buying a set of trickle heads which work better and make more power they won't make any more power because something else is limiting your power if you only have a thousand horsepower turbo if you have two of those and you're trying to max that out then having ported heads can really come into play uh trev you the 10 to 1 is fine on pump gas because lots of factory stuff has higher compression than that travis just put if it's a 6-0 and with a cam in it just put a 243 or 799 on it mike wants to keep his 20 mile per gallon then you then do a 4 8 with a turbo on it and a stock cam uh admiral i don't know what the i have no idea what the gt500 and um coyote heads flow stock i'd have to go look the only ones we've ever had flow the other ones we've ever flowed were i have a set of stock gen 1 coyote heads but i think once we ported them even after we ported them i think that they were only in the 330 range after they reported maybe the newer stuff flows more so a ported set of ls heads will flow more than those coyotes do but i don't think that they're going to have the average flow numbers that a coyote does because the low lift in in a four valve is going to be the low and mid lift especially it should be really good on the four valve head what is the 706 maximum horsepower before you start restricting you can't look at it like that it depends on it depends on what is it an n a combination is it a big motor is it a small motor is it high rpm is it boosted you know with stock heads guys are making way into the four digit power range on turbo stuff uh woody's nova i don't have that handy but if you look up if you do a search for the hot rod test that i did or for the video is up also if you want to look at the video that's other i just would have to dig through all my paperwork to find it the 799 and 317 had flowed very similar i think that they were within six or seven cfm of each other alex thank you very much uh travis you can make power with either one of those it's not one's not better than the other uh you can we've done you know way past 900 horsepower with oval port stuff just because the the world is no longer oval port and report the way that people thought about it back in the 60s and 70s we went with rec port stuff because that was always thought to be the performance one because that's what chevrolet did but anymore most guys are running roval ports which is just a big oval port so they've blurred the lines you can make a million horsepower with oval stuff the little oval port heads like no one wants to run a tiny oval port head until you run a set of airflow research 265 cc oval port heads and then you make six or seven or 800 horsepower with them then you'll go oh yeah well maybe that actually does work so you can make lots of lots of power with both of them uh 243 is the same as a 799. there are some 243s that have different valves in them but that would be ls6 stuff uh andrew that sounds like a terrible combination a six liter board 40 over 40 over is not bad on a 6 liter we we go 30 a lot but a 4 125 stroke is not a good idea and yeah and if you have a 6 liter travis i think that's what you'd asked about the the heads that are going to make the most power a stock head that's going to make the most power is going to be a um a set of factory rec port heads either an 823 or uh what is the other now now that now i've lost the lost my train of thought here either an ly6 or an ls3 head so either one of those is going to make the most power of any of the factory heads it's going to make more than a 243 or 799 or 317 and you have to get these report heads and part of that i think is because you get to put the factory ls3 intake or the ly6 intake manifold on there and that works really good do you have an experience with the btrch4 truck cam only the dyno testing that i've done what heads does my 2011 48 have you got a look on it just look on the thing it says right on it on some of those four eights on the later ones if it's a gen four some of those had 799's on them 862s are good for a turbo you can make a million horsepower with them uh first amendment you're i don't know about a budget method but if you can go to a wrecking yard and start out with an lq9 that has a flat top piston or an l3353 is another way it'd be better to do it with a 6 liter because then the compression would be higher you could take that and then combine it with a 706 head or an 862 head that you port yourself and you really know what you're doing and put that combination together with a good cam and then you would have high compression you're not i don't you're not going to be in the 12 to 13 to one you'd have to put a piston in it to do that i don't think you could mill it enough to get down there uh the other way that you could do that is you if but it's it's not none of them are going to be a low buck method you could do um if you found some used ls3 rods and pistons you could put those in and bore the six liter block to a six two that's going to help with power and compression but i don't think you're going to get anywhere near 12 or 13 to 1 without without putting a piston in it custom cam custom builds lq9 317 heads twin 35 82's any head upgrade that keeps 10 to 1 compression i you you don't need a head upgrade um if you have uh gt3582s that's a thousand horsepower combination and you can make that with your 317 head without any problem just put a decent cam in it uh william you have a you have a stock bottom end with ported 706 heads and you have a 236 246 cam with a 110 lsa and it fits the stock piston to valve clearance that that seems really really tight to me uh boogie man um go go on to wallace go go do a google search for wallace racing compression calculator and then put in that information and it will be able to tell you i don't know at the top of my head what that's going to be mike you can get way more than 20 horsepower from cylinder heads take a look at the cylinder head test especially on the cathedral porch stuff you can get a lot of power from a head but again like we were talking about if you're running a turbo motor and you are trying to make a thousand horsepower you have a thousand horsepower turbo don't do the heads you don't just keep the head that you have whatever you have will work just fine uh nicholas a pardon polish 62 head will flow with a 2 inch valve will flow way more than a 243 except this magic set of 243's that we somehow came across uh 421 you can re-sleeve that block and make a lot of power with the sleep with the dart and stuff i don't i don't know what level half inch head studs are at we've done 1500 with the um ca625 stuff that's 7 16. uh michael you don't need to upgrade the heads on a 6 liter to make 650 wheels power you can do that with a stock one from a wrecking yard with the stock cam and all that you know that to make that power level if it was 1600 then we would talk about something but just put any any six liter or any five three or any four eight and 650 wheel horses power is really easy [Music] oh slide matt's over doing a sloppy live feed you guys need to go over and like heckle them jeremy's making 700 wheel horsepower 317s on ls6 91 and meth well that that's your limitation as you're trying to do it on pump gas and if you put e85 in it and put timing in it and put boost in it your whatever your turbo will do you can do that uh i'm i'm thinking that that's chris allen 799 heads a gen 3 lr4 that's a 48 an hx60 i'm not real super familiar with that turbo but yeah i wouldn't see any reason that the head and the combination as long as you have a decent cam in there we'll go to a thousand without your problem uh evan wants to know how well would a cathedral intake work on an ls3 head with adapters it's terrible i've tried that that's that's up in the head in this in the intake test i ran we ran an i think an ls2 intake on an ls3 head using adapters from the um who is it the ict guys or somebody and then we also did it the other way we ran the ls3 intake on a cathedral port head using adapters and neither one of them work very well it's much better to have the right head with the right intake manifold uh kingston i have 243s in my saab53 would they be high compression on six so they'll be higher than if you have a 317 head on there and you put 243s on there it's going to raise the compression if that's what your question uh trev if you take a look at a stock ls3 it's 10.8 10 7 or 10.8 to 1 compression just stock so you you can get away with that it's just that you have to have the tune correct so you have ported 241's tony from australia flowing to 87. that's good see that should make you some power professional amateur everything or delphi lifters okay to drive on yeah we've run them a lot uh travis 600 horsepower from a 454 is going to take a quite a bit of camshaft and and really it needs a fairly good head so maybe if you're looking at more of a budget thing look at the skip white stuff or the promax stuff and then it's going to be a single plane intake like a tmg or a 454r and it's going to need um a camshaft that's probably going to be like a 242 248 at 50 and it's gonna be 650 or more lift um [Music] and it would really help things if you made the camshaft at 272 280 then you would definitely get there but the well and you might not i'm trying to think with the camshaft we normally put in stuff is a solid roller and it's a 255 262 that's that blower cam that we run and everything but we've made 550 or more with like a 242 248 or a 248 250 kind of thing or 254. driving with drew yeah that's a good combination anytime you add 16 miles an hour that's good uh how do aftermarket ellis heads with a small chamber flow better than a larger chamber head you'd have to look at the two heads that you're talking about that's not a chamber thing the the chamber comes into play when you're putting like a 706 head on a six inch or on a six liter where it has a four inch bore then you wanna unshroud the valve if you put a bigger valve in like a two inch valve it's a good idea to unshroud the valve because you you pick up a lot of flow and we picked up i don't know 13 or 14 cfm by unshrouding the valve and that's just on a stock uh valve size 862 head so it does work well 1979 suburban when the 350 gets 10 miles a gallon and a 2003 with a 6 liter gets 12 miles a gallon yeah i don't know but i've never tested those my truck gets 20 so it's um and it's a five three and it's a four wheel drive but it gets it gets 20 on the freeway john take a look at the videos i have up on the different power levels 400 500 600 horsepower there's a bunch of different applications there's a bunch of different kinds of test motors that you could look at to make that an autocross thing is no different than a road race or drag race thing well some of the drag race stuff is kind of peaky but it would be the same for a road race deal and luckily if you run the right intake manifold you put a 5 3 together with a trailblazer ss or a fast a set of decently ported heads a camshaft that's to between 224 and 228 degrees uh duration at 50 it will work really well on the autocross uh michael a 243 head can make it depends on what you put it on but but if they flow 250 let's say that's the rule of thumb is they can support 500 horsepower they can support more if you have a really crazy motor underneath that and you're really drawing on those but 500 is a reasonable number most motors will make less than that some will make more than that i think we've done we've done over 500 with a 6 liter with 243 heads and the right camshaft so that's a that should give you an idea cnc versus hand porting they both work the cnc seems to be more repeatable actually the non-repeatable part of that typically is the head casting there's just core shift and stuff muscle trucks yeah i saw fryeburger's test um and again we it's the same thing that we always talk about you stop thinking about it as the heads being restricted a restriction and start thinking about how much power do i want to make if if you're running a turbo motor or a blower motor pick the turbo or the blower so it's capable of making that power now the next important thing is the cam shaft now especially in an ls now pick the cam shaft if you put the camshaft in and put springs in and you have the turbo that will do that it will do that as long as you have injectors that are big enough and it's intercooled and you run good gas and you have enough timing it will do that you don't need cylinder head to do that if you're trying to make 1500 or 2000 horsepower then you start needing cylinder head for it have you tested ebay t76 turbos i've tested cx racing t76 turbo so that's probably the same thing what's the most horsepower you can get from porting the heads well if you go from 250 cfm to 330 cfm which you can do with the right guy porting it and putting the valves in and all that stuff 330 cfm would support maybe 700 horsepower so a lot [Music] trevor no there's no head part that's specifically good for boost they all work [Music] you don't just like with a throttle body you don't need a giant port that flows a whole bunch like we like we just talked about that flows a whole bunch to make a whole bunch of n a power so that you can make the turbo power if you're limiting it by the turbo size a lot of guys want to run record heads more because you'll have better turbo response because they tend to make if you take a factory uh cathedral part head and compare it to a factory rec port head the rec port head makes more peak power the cathedral part head makes more low speed power so it will spool the turbo up so if you have a thousand horsepower turbo and you combine that with a cathedral port head you'll have a thousand horsepower motor with better response than you will with the rec port head uh currently building a 408 stroker n a and your recommendation for ls3 style heads there's lots of good ones the airflow research stuff is good um the mass stuff is good the trick flow stuff is good i've got a six liter lq-9 i want to know what heads are best daniel take a look at the stuff that we did where i ran the i i on a six layer ly6 i ran 706 heads i ran 799 heads i ran 240 or 823 heads and i ran triclo 225 heads so that will give you a pretty good rundown of what all those do i'll give you a hint it's the trick flow 225 hits 1981 camaro yeah doing a five three sloppy stage two 862 pearl 60 that's gonna be your problem do you think a set of stock gen 3 truck injectors will be okay uh no you probably need something bigger than that yeah the 243s will work good on your 408 block they're gonna you know ultimately they won't make as much power as a set of ported heads or aftermarket heads but they'll work and for a 408 i think i might pick on the rec port heads tom wants to see an og small block with 18 degree heads i don't think i've ever run 18 degree heads on anything what is the typical airflow bottleneck it's not like that you shouldn't think about it like that there's no bottleneck that stops like that all of a sudden you improve that and all the magic happens that's not the way that it works take your n a power output and you multiply it by boost and that gives you the boosted power output if i run a board 6 liter at 11 to 1 compression uh andrew you can run a turbo motor at 11 to 1. if you run 15 pounds you're going to double the power output so you have to know what the n a power output is and whether that 85 millimeter vsr turbo will run that level and i'm assuming that that's going to be going into four-digit territory if you're around 11 to 1 you have to have um the right octane fuel like e85 would be great an inner core is also a good idea and obviously the tune has to be spot-on you have to have the right timing on it the biggest intake and exhaust valve for a stock 453 you shouldn't be looking at big intake and exhaust valves for that that's not where you should be looking um you can put a two inch intake valve in it and i wouldn't worry about the exhaust valve uh how you need to get past the small versus large chamber thing the five four four valve stuff that they did that mohovets and and kazi and those guys did for engine masters were pretty impressive i think that they were 400 inch versions those things made a lot of power [Music] joseph not very many people go to a 4065 bore on a 6 6 liter only because the the cylinders get thin so make sure you check it make sure you have it sonic checked or you could just do it and hope for the best i wouldn't run boost on it though what is the biggest na cube that you've seen with 862s i i don't know what you mean what like what is the biggest motor that 862s have ever been on ported versions of those like i said will flow 320 or so cfm so they'll support a lot of power even on a big motor uh zach what's the most stroke you'd be comfortable with putting in an lq4 we don't go more than four inch if you go more than that you're going to be pulling the pistons down out of the bottom of the sleeve and it gets unstable and stuff and it's just not good [Music] and you're gonna get well you probably i don't know if you'll get you'll have windage problems like they do in the big blocks it already has a um you have to space down the um the windage tray but that's not usually an issue are hollow or solid valves better for boost we use solid ones when we need just a month of nothing but other guys how much boost with no ring gap you need to turn the boost up right up until it breaks and then right before that is you need to go back there's no way to know what that is because you don't know when you don't haven't checked the ring gap you don't know what it is is your ring gap 13 like one of them that i checked is it 19 is it 24 is it is it already big enough you just don't know [Music] i don't know when i'm testing the rb25 i wish i did i'm excited about it i don't i don't ever test converters or dump valves on the transmissions can i make a 5 7 ls 1 board out to 6 liter no not without sleeves not on that aluminum block six heads oh also one perimeter that that that perimeter bolt head is gonna probably gonna flow like a 241 does please enable the translation i need to look and see how to do that i don't know if i've ever done that on a six liter iokina with a sloppy stage two cam going it would be worth it to change the 706 relief just leave the three 17s in if you're gonna especially if you're gonna run boost a ported 241 head gun nuts will flow more than a 243 or a 799 if they're done properly the camshaft cannot increase the static compression of the motor but it can increase the dynamic compression of the motor and it can change whether the thing detonates and stuff no cody i don't know anybody that has a um an old kit i have two of their old kits i think in my storage and i can't remember what they are i think ones may be a hemi and the other one might be a two valve but i want to get rid of them so if anybody's interested i need to look and see what they are uh 383 mazda if you're building a 53 for mileage the stock cam or a torque cam would work good and then i would stay with the 862 heads if that's what's on there is it worth it to build a bear ls6 i think you're going to spend a lot of money doing that it's cheaper to get one from the wrecking yard if you can find them the stock trail blazer ss intake manifold will hold lots and lots of boost i don't know what that limit is we've we've run 20 more than 20 pounds in them an lq4 with a 706 sloppy ch2 in a good tune is 400 i think you could get that i think you could make that with an lq4 as long as you have headers on it and a good intake manifold uh coleman that's a good combination and i did you tell me what oh a 91 104 yeah a thousand wheel horse car is going to be easy with that i was reading somebody about a there it is 350 with 882 heads i've run that a summit k1102 i don't know what the 1102 cam is negative 4cc piston nine and a half uh i don't know what the cam is and if you want to make torque i hopefully you have a dual plane intake manifold on it and a carburetor more moonshine testing i i would not recommend uh raul i would would not recommend the ls7 cam that's take a look at all of the cam tests that i did i ran the stock cam the ls7 cam it makes decent top end power but you're going to lose a lot in the middle i'm still going to run the 6 liter with the north star rain gap for a turbo 5 3 is 28 to 30 thousandths uh plastic how should i build a timing map i i don't know on the micro square i've never done that what cam should i run on my stock bottom end uh for eight ported and milled 862 heads and imported truck intake well how much power do you want to make and where do you want to make it i tend to put small cams in the 480 because it doesn't need a lot but we've made um almost 480 with oh that was what the ported head to um that was a really good ported head i think it was a ta-706 head and the 224 232 cam yes more blue jug i haven't andrew i haven't tested with manly undercut valves uh brian you can port the heads if you want you it will make more power if you're going in a if you're going to put boost to it i wouldn't worry about it rob is that a question you 18 psi on supercharger versus 14 ps on a turbocharger on the same engine uh i it depends an awful lot on a lot of different things there what what supercharger it is um where where you want to take that measurement at is it is it the horsepower peak do they both have good intercoolers there's a lot going on there a turbo will make more power at any given boost level than the supercharger will because it doesn't have the parasitic losses associated with driving the blower take a look that video is up where i tested all the different blowers and and the turbos uh jose i i run the same gap on the top and bottom rings hey dan you got to get those dogs you got to walk the dog that's very important john you have an lm7 board the 9093 that's pretty big run the siamese bores samuel asking the wrong guy about factory ecu stuff the afr260 heads will make 600 wheel horsepower without any problem i i think those things probably flow 350. uh chris the a three rotor and a four rotor i've seen two rotor and three rotor blowers i don't know about the four rotor stuff but it's it's the design it has different it has that many lobes on it basically uh pt 88 t4 96 too big for a 5.7 it's not going to be real responsive but it depends on what kind of power you want to make demon tech what's up he's got god thanks thanks for your support man got to get back to work i i hear you i it's already been over an hour i gotta get going too uh ricky bird the 350 tbi the best thing that you could do for just take the throttle body injection off and put a carburetor on it put a dual plane or carburetor and you'll pick up quite a bit of power uh eugene i have some big block cams available kyle wants a cam for 427 ls 11 to 1 with cathedral port what cathedral port heads do you have on it um i think i would go big if you've got enough piston to valve and you're trying to make power josh that's why we don't look at the cam bearings you just put the new cam in it's all good [Music] uh we've made a thousand horsepower with a dual plane before so it depends on what dual plane and what motor and whether you're adding boost to it a forged and stroke lm7 on boost versus a stock porn stroke lq9 on boost oh so you want to do like a 383 versus or just a just a stroke one with a stock bore the the turbo is going to dictate the n a power and then the how much boost you run into whatever the limit of the turbo is is going to dictate what happens on the test the boring stroke is not going to change [Music] that uh linwood how superior are ls engines to a small block chevy i feel gm could have made better flowing heads comparable to the ls engines for a small block and then okay well they did if you take a look at an lt1 or lt4 head those are actually pretty good flowing heads [Music] they're not ls flowing heads certainly not ls3 flowing heads though i don't think you can get well i say that i've never seen any sort of factory style head for our small block that will that will flow what a a rec port cathedral or a rec port ls3 head flows you're you know you're talking about over 300 cfm that's a that's an aftermarket race small block chevy head from not too long ago a motorcraft variable venturi carburetor i haven't seen those in a long time i really really like the idea the execution i didn't think um uh a hot mess i don't have any pro max heads no 6.6 test coming i don't have one of those motors but i'm going to try to talk brian tully into getting one chris we i normally don't go more than a 430 on lq9 some guys have gone for 4065 and put you know the the 6.2 liter stuff in there but i don't i haven't ever done that the 706 head on my 6 liter will give you a lot more torque for towing and it has more compression so you got to make sure that you have the tune right yeah you can get an lt head to flow over 300 if you port it i just mean it doesn't do that from the factory yeah lots of people have good flowing small block chevy heads i don't think i have any big block heads a 396 uh half bake does the o2 sensor for your y-band have to be a specific distance from your turbo to be accurate i don't think it does we've we've about here about here about here seems to be fine and then when we run stuff on the chassis dyno we just put a sniffer in the tailpipe which is all the way back from it so i don't i don't think that that's going to be a problem can you do tests with an lsa 6.2 liter so you want to you want a test of a cylinder head with a blower uh i've done that and it it does add power uh princess jamie a quadrijet on an edelbrock performer is a good is really good for a daily driver you may have to work on it a little bit to get it exactly right but once you do it's they're awesome plus you get to turn the air cleaner lid over which is worth it right there i know i'm gonna have to talk to matt and see what's up i'm surprised that uncle tony is not live right now too once he saw other people doing lots of live feeds he stepped up his live feed game what can i do to raise my rpm limit on a stock ls engine with lighter valves with titanium retainers help valve springs just put different valve springs in it the 862 video will not be tomorrow i i don't have all the information yet have you ever tested the three-piece dorman truck intake i've tested the dorman truck intake i didn't realize it was three pieces [Music] though uh robert the first thing you should do is ditch the ls1 intake the 243 heads are good there's lots of different camshafts for it um stage two and a cam from btr or a 54 454-11 cam from comp cams as good will make good power have you noticed the breaking point of a 5 3 block aluminum block versus an iron block under boost no i think it's it's north of 1500 so is a wideband necessary for an n a big cam yes um to tune it it is a stock vortec 350 with an afr 195 is a stock 5360 i i don't think it would be because i don't think it has enough camshaft uh do you have any videos on a twin turbo 43 v6 no i only did the single that one single turbo and i didn't even do that that was actually my buddy jason's driveway engineering claims 862 heads are better than 243. i'm sure going by the testing that i did although he does a lot of testing too so i'm sure he's run a bunch of them and every time i've tested it it's been better except for this time slowpoke you're out the heads on the 500 caddy the ones on mine are not ported they're milled though always every every live feed putting ls heads on a windsor no you don't need to do there's lots of good windsor heads it's a lot of work gen 4 engine maximum compression suggestion for 91 on the 84 or e85 factory stuff for 91 runs 10 point you know almost 11 to 1 but it depends on your camshaft depends on your dynamic impression a lot of other things your water temperature all kinds of things in e85 you can run as much static compression as you want paul i'm going to have some used versions of those cams available before too long here if buddy john's out i have a cadillac ttsv stock engine lsa and a turbo cam kit so do you have the blower and the turbo on it if you do that's cool if you just have the turbo going to it that's also cool but the that bottom end will take a lot of power you could make a thousand wheel horsepower with it i i saw the channel that has the ls on the 351. smear if you're if you want to put that turbo on there with a 0.93 ar that's pretty tight but for 500 or 600 wheel horsepower that would won't be a problem um you might run into a little bit of an issue trying to do that 500 is okay 500 to 600 is a really big window that's 100 horsepower window and on 93 what you're running into is if the back pressure's really high you're going to run into detonation probably i'm going to put the cadillac motor back together and then hopefully somebody's just going to buy it because i'm not i don't think i'm doing any more testing with it an ls6 with 799 heads the ls6 already has a 243 head on it so you don't need a 799 head it's already that head the favorite other guy's motor so far is the next one that i get to run i'm hoping it's the 4200 or the 3800 yes you can run 21 static with the 85 you just have to have the timing right though uh rusty i haven't run a bunch of vvt cams but that we ran some with the guys from brian tooley that work really well [Music] i have a 301 pontiac turbo you have the whole motor those are awesome h22 big cams yeah uh trev i've done lean cruise in my civic vx now that chad has it but that would do 19 to 1 or so cruising it was pretty cool uh brian a 5'3 with 862 heads and a summit cam cannot make 500 horsepower a hot mess i don't know what what year is the 4-3 is it a balance shaft motor is it stock what is it torque storm on a 53 is good it's a good 700 horsepower combination 4200 i know 4200 is going to be awesome uh craig i wouldn't recommend unshrouding those valves just put it on that chamber is probably already pretty big uh yeah you can run 7 500 on your 5.3 and just put the heads on that you want to make power with jason uh an as cast trick flow 220 heads a good a good choice uh ed take a look at the and this will be my last question because i gotta get going ed wants to know can an ls3 intake support 650 horsepower on a 415 stroker take a look at the um the efi ls3 i was trying to get through the different tests the efi ls3 intake test that i have the videos up we tested exactly that and you can see exactly what that intake does on that combination at that power level and also see what it does versus lots of other intake manifolds that you might want to pick from to make more top end power less bottom end yada yada yada so i got i got one more question before i leave here's here's the question i want you guys to all answer uh which one is better red vines i like the red red vines or black liquor so red licorice or black black licorice like if you're going to a movie which one do you guys pick let me know let me know in the comments so i can get going you know just random questions it's just day-to-day stuff i uh and one more one more quick story i was out today i went out to look for snakes and i was out in the tall grass and stuff and there was a really cool a mother goose actually sitting there on her nest with an egg and i scared her off a little bit because i didn't realize she was there because i was looking down under trying to lift rocks and stuff and saw her finally she was kind of hiding and then she took off and i got out of there so that she could come back and get back on her egg but i actually saw mother goose today which was which was awesome i'm getting all the red black stuff so got to see mother goose i got my red black going let me know what you guys think so anybody else that watches this video make sure that you chime in on the whole on the whole red black licorice fiasco that's going on thanks for showing up guys i will see you tomorrow

Channel: Richard Holdener

Views: 29,339

Rating: 4.9375749 out of 5

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Id: dBu4Je4igew

Length: 76min 36sec (4596 seconds)

Published: Wed Apr 28 2021