when you eat your body wants to store food energy because food Energy's coming in you should store it for a time that you don't have it and when you are not eating then insulin falls and you simply take that food energy that you store it and you burn it and that's why you don't die in your sleep like every single night you don't have to eat muffins every two hours to survive like it's okay so if you think about it now we're eating sort of ten times a day instead of three times a day so 10 times a day we're telling our bodies to store fat it's like store fast or fast or fast or fat and that's like I wonder why I'm so fat it's like because you keep telling your body do that and if you want to burn fat then you gotta tell it to stop burning fat and again it's a hormonal signal it's not a caloric signal it's a hormonal signal you got to let that insulin fall because it's when the enzyme fall that the body's gonna start burning the glycogen I'm gonna start burning the body fat if you keep your insulin high then you'll never do it because insulin is the signal to to go high and this is the promo type-2 diabetes because you get this insulin resistance which means too high insulin all the time so it gets harder and harder to lose weight as it goes so then as you get in sort of like 40 years in if you're 60 years old and you've been gaining weight since age 20 for example you have all the senses and resistance it keeps it high even though your diet may be good you have to you have to fight all those years of insulin resistance and that's why I also say that that obesity is really a time-dependent phenomenon that is the longer you have it the harder it is which the Clarke theory completely sort of ignores that is to say if you gain 10 pounds from where you are right now you could lose that pretty easily yeah but if somebody is 65 it's pretty hard to lose that 10 pounds because they've always had it and it's this sort of chronic resetting upwards of this body set weight that's the problem [Music] hey my friend it's Mike muscle here thanks so much for showing up and tuning into yet another video this episode is proudly sponsored by salami fix one of the manufacturers of the world's only hypoallergenic mal tape that will get you sleeping like a baby again I mean wearing this shirt right now to help promote the power of nose breathing and really discourage mouth breathing while you're sleeping because if you're sitting there with your mouth wide open while you're sleeping well guess what you're not going to achieve those deep phases of restorative sleep that are going to help you burn fat better become better fat adapted and if you are breathing through your mouth while you're sleeping you're probably going to be activating cortisol and free radical stressors within your body so that's where mouth taping can come in and what makes Sami fix a really unique product is it's made of hypoallergenic mouth tape that was studied at Harvard and the adhesive does not cause any irritation to your lips and it has a small little Pierce in there so you can speech or your partner or your spouse your children and your loved ones so please help support the show and get your your sleep on track by going to some knee fixed comm again thats omni fixed comm som ni fi x.com dr. funk thanks so much for coming back on it's great to be with you again great to be here thanks having me yeah so that last interview we did it was let's see not Memorial Day I'm thinking of membranes day of 2016 oh sure you're wearing your lapel people we're asking about that in that video remember that yeah it's like early November there's a whole week remembrance week oh yeah yeah yeah papi the punk people are asking like what's up with that flower and so we didn't talk about that so anyway ah yeah okay almost eighteen months ago and I was looking through the comments or thousands of comments cuz there's such great content that you shared and people were curious or they one of the top comments that would keep coming up was did this doctor really just say that the calories in calories out model does not govern whether someone loses weight or gains weight and so we're talking offline how there's really no receptors for calories in their body yeah and this is the thing that's very strange routine so you take a concept from physics so what calories is is that they take a piece of steak or whatever and they basically burn it and see how much energy it is so you can determine how many calories are in a steak and a piece of broccoli or a piece of wood for that matter so you just burn it and see how much physical energy there so the body has no receptors it doesn't measure calories it has no idea how many calories you eat so if you eat a piece of wood it might have 10,000 calories but you're not gonna absorb any of it because it goes straight through you if you eat steak if you it's it's going to have a certain number of calories if you if you drink Cola it's gonna have a certain number of calories if you don't drink diet cola it's gonna have zero calories but the body doesn't actually know that because it has no way of measuring it so it has no way of responding to it so why would we think that this is a sort of an important concept and the only reason we think that is because we've sort of been ingrained into us but it's a it's a concept of physics and it's not a physiologic concept if you put a hundred calories of sugar in your mouth versus a hundred calories of olive oil the physiologic response is completely and utterly different so you put that oil into your mouth and drink it down for example and there's no insulin response for example you eat a brownie which is the same number of calories and insulin spikes way up so the body responds to hormones I mean everything runs on hormones thyroid hormone insulin all these different hormones and that's how it knows what to do so when it senses that you're taking in carbohydrates for example then insulin will go up if it senses that protein is coming in insulin will go up as well as well as something like mTOR so there's different receptors for amino acids there's different receptors for fat there's different receptors so the fat for example you'll have cholecystokinin release if you need a lot of fibrous foods you'll have stretch receptors in your stomach which are activated so there are all these different things that the body does respond to but calories is not one of them so therefore it really has no idea you can look on all these different you know these diagrams of metabolism that we've done and you can go on google you can find you know hundreds of diagrams of metabolism you see the Krebs cycle you see acetyl co a you'll see insulin receptors you'll see all kinds of things amino acids fatty acids all kinds of things and in nowhere in the last sort of five hundred you of human physiology have we described the calorie receptor it doesn't exist right and so the the entire concept is sort of borrowed from physics and sort of made a little bit of sense not a lot of sense but it just kept being repeated repeated repeated so people think that is true but again 100 calories of broccoli is not the same as a hundred calories of donuts that's just the bottom line and we all try and pretend that it is but it isn't and that's where we've really failed so if you believe that calories is what's really important then all you need to do is switch over and drink diet soda and have that fake fat olestra that we used to have eat fake food with zero calories switch and there are lots of things we've done it for sort of 30 years that I mean diet cooks been around for a long time and there would be no obesity crisis but it's worse than ever so it's like okay well you know what people never really get is that the bottom line is that you have to have results if you think that cutting calories is what's really important and we've told people this is important for the last sort of 20-30 years well what's happened well obesity has gone like through the roof so clearly this entire notion is completely false and that's where we're getting into trouble because we're following the wrong path we're so obsessed with calories that we forget about everything else we say yeah you can eat doughnuts for dinner because it's the same number of calories as if you had that kale salad like you've got to be an idiot to think that eating doughnuts for dinner is a good idea and equally as fattening as eating kale salad there's nothing the same about them the minute it goes into your mouth there's nothing the same about those two foods so you got to follow the physiology rather than this sort of foreign notion of physics that we've sort of imported in I mean why don't we say for example that it's all dude the weight of food if you eat half a pound of food you will gain half a pound of weight you know depends what you're eating in the hormone response yeah exactly and I mean that's the law of thermodynamics to first law of thermodynamics you can't gain a pound of weight if you've only eaten a pound half a pound of food if you've eaten half a pound of food you must weigh half a pound more there's simply no way around it of course that's stupid because you get metabolism there's metabolism something that's going to be exhaled as carbon dioxide something's gonna go through your stools there's all this physiology that happens when when when you go from physics to physiology but but you know the whole calories thing is just like it's just so engrained into us from like we're from the time we're like 2 years old that we really can't let go of this notion and that's where we're really really getting into trouble yeah do you think part of that is the food industry because people go to the grocery store buy packaged food so they look at calories and so it's like indelibly inked I mean it's gonna take a long time for you on a hundred thirty it was all driven by the food industry in my mind because it's not driven by the scientists other than know what those who have been paid off by the industry because what they want to do is equate in our minds that it's all calories so that you can say you can eat doughnuts for dinner and then hey why don't you buy these doughnuts there's a lot tastier than that salad you're gonna eat and if it's 200 calories of doughnuts and 200 calories of salmon hey same thing it's like cheaper it tastes better just eat that doughnut and it's great so of course they they love this sort of idea and the beverage business for example it's like yeah you can drink Gatorade and then go bicycle for an hour and you'll work it all off it's the same it's all equivalent when you try and make them equivalent what you don't understand is that if you drink that sugary drink you're gonna get fatty liver you're gonna get insulin resistance you can exercise your muscles but you can't exercise your liver your livers dying your muscles are doing great so it's like okay well in the end you get all these athletes like Professor Tim Noakes who's running marathons to marathon after marathon and then gets type-2 diabetes it's like okay well how does that work it works because the whole calories notion is Falls and that's one of the things that we have to understand yeah maybe it's you know maybe I over exaggerated a little bit for a fact but you really can't use that calories notion it's not a helpful notion and if it was we would be doing a lot better than we are sort of today mm-hmm and in the longer term at the demon illogical studies have teased this out and and reducing calories effects resting metabolic rate which I want to get into but first is two kind of two examples you know I want to talk about insulin and then also if someone is eating the right amount of macronutrients but is in a calorie excess but yet it's keeping their hormones in balance so we've seen this a lot of people on the internet are doing like 5,000 or 4,000 calorie a day keto you know diets and they're not gaining fat because their hormones are imbalanced so yeah how do you feel about that I think you can do it now it all depends on what happens you got to realize that for most of sort of human history people didn't count calories calorie intake varies widely know nobody eats sort of like 2,000 a day every single day honestly I have no idea how many calories I eat in a day and most people don't either they even if they try and count it they're wildly inaccurate the idea is that the body works as a negative feedback loop and that's how we maintain stable weight so look let's go back to the 60s the sixties nobody's exercising and weight is quite stable for the most part in a very good range like in a non obese or overweight sort of a range so how does that work because if you think that you can match your calorie expenditure in your intake to that degree that sort of 2% of the population is obese but you're taking 2,000 calories a day in a year times 365 it's you know 70,000 calories in a year a pound of fat is roughly 3,000 calories so you're matching it to less like sort of a 99.5 percent accuracy without any idea of how many calories are either either spending it's like there's no way that's possible so there's obviously a negative feedback loop and what that is it's like a thermostat so a thermostat is a perfect example of a negative feedback loop so you set your temperature at say 72 degrees which is room temperature if it's summer and it's hot then the the thermostat senses it's too hot and turns on the air-conditioning brings it back to 72 if it's winter and it's really cold temperatures in the house drops to 69 degrees these thermostat senses that turns on the heat brings it back up so it's a negative feedback loop and that's a perfect example of homeostasis the body does exactly the same thing and there's a very similar body set way so we have a a mechanism in our body that determines how fat we get so if you get too fat you're gonna you're not going to survive because you're not going to be able to catch food or somebody's going to eat you if you get too skinny you're also not going to survive because you can't take it when there's no food like the wintertime there's no food you're gonna die so the body actually sets a certain set weight which is defended very vigorously actually so if you get too fat your body will actually turn on and try and burn off those calories and we've proved that through lots of studies so if you deliberately over feed people to gain 10 percent body weight they'll actually burn 500 calories per day more than if they're at their normal weight then you drop them to their normal weight and their basal metabolic rate goes back to the same one if now you make them lose 10 percent of their body weight they're actually burning 300 calories a day less than they did when they were normal weight so you see that the basal metabolic rate goes up and down depending on where it is but the body has this mechanism that if you get too fat it's going to burn it off burn off those calories so we get back to normal weight the more sort of situation we deal with more is that you're trying to lose weight then the body tries to make you gain that weight back so the key is not to look at the calories so let's take an example of the thermostat mm-hmm we know there's a there's a negative feedback loop there if you temperature of 72 degrees and it gets too hot then what's gonna happen is that the body will turn on the air-conditioning if you for example put in a bunch of heaters you can bring it back up so say you're at 72 degrees and you say okay now I want to be 75 degrees but instead of changing that thermostat you just bring in a couple of heaters well that's great you go from 72 to 75 then the thermostat is going to turn on the AC and then it's gonna bring it back down to 72 so you say okay well that didn't work so instead of one heater I'll bring in two heaters you bring it up to 75 it brings it back down and you keep fighting yourself that's exactly what we do with our body so we have a say say our body set weight is 200 pounds we don't want to be 200 pounds we want to be a hundred and eighty pounds so you lose weight you count your calories you lose weight go down to 180 and what does the body do well the body makes you hungry and then it slows down your metabolism in an effort to get back up to the 200 pounds so then you say okay well now you know I've got a lot of willpower so I'm gonna cut my calories even further so you cut your calories further and what happens the body makes you hungrier and it slows down your metabolic rate even more so you're constantly fighting yourself rather than adjusting that body set wait so it's not about calories it's about this body's that way because the way it worked is that insulin is going to make you gain fat but if your fat cells expand to a certain point they're going to generate leptin so leptin goes into the brain and it says hey we're too fat and turns down the appetite right down okay so as your appetite goes down you don't eat if you don't eat insulin goes down so perfect here is your negative feedback loop hi there it's me again with a quick announcement from our show sponsor health IQ as you know there are progressive life insurance company the rewards healthy people like you and I for participating in our own health by exercising walking getting good deep restorative sleep breathing through our nose while we're sleeping and bar on a low-carb ketogenic style diet weightlifting we can cut our risk of diabetes heart disease and cancer by orders of magnitude and that's how we can save money on our life insurance premiums I would encourage you to see if you can get a free quote and see if you qualify by going to health iq.com force us h IH again if you have dependents loved ones in a family you need life insurance please visit health iq.com for shi h to get a free quote and see if you qualify now let's dive back into the show you eat insulin goes up when you're too fat left and turns on and turns off the insulin so it works perfectly what happens though is that if you've hijacked that mechanism now listen you you stimulate insulin all the time so you go to 1977 the government says eat lots of Brad because remember they said eat 50 percent carbs 55 to 60 percent carbs right if they're eating broccoli you're good but if you're eating white bread and you should see the original Dietary Guidelines they're all white bread and you know spaghetti yeah and so you're supposed to eat that five or six times a day so insulin is going through the roof but not just that but people went from eating three times a day to six times a day that wasn't in the guidelines but that did happen so now you're stimula every time you eat assuming you eat a mixed meal you're gonna stimulate insulin assuming you have some carbs some proteins on fat yeah you're gonna stimulate insulin so not only are you stimulated insulin more you're stimulating it all the time so what happens is that if you stimulate insulin all the time you get insulin resistance your fat cells get big it turns on leptin leptin if you stimulate all the time you get leptin resistance same thing we know that because in obesity what you have is not a lack of leptin but a total lack of response so it's a leptin resistance state so now your negative feedback loop is completely busted because insulin you're eating a diet lots of carbs eating all the time your insulin is going up through the roof and leptin goes up but there's no response so now your your negative feedback loop is busted and you're just going to gain weight so that thermostat that bodyweight thermostat is gradually getting reset upwards higher and higher and higher exact yeah and then if you simply try so so the important thing is that how do you reset that well it's a balance between insulin and leptin you can't do much about leptin so you really got a attack the the infant side and really lower it but if you simply say and here's where we made a huge mistake so you're eating 2,000 calories a day now you say okay I want to cut 500 calories I'm gonna cut the fat out because that's what the government told them I'm gonna cut the fat high calorie weight so the coke calorie thing is like okay I've cut my calories because I've cut so much fat out of my diet that fat had no practically no insulin response anyway yeah and instead of eating three times a day I'm gonna eat six or seven times a day because somebody told me that you have to eat all the time you should eat six meals a day so not only are you you're not affecting your insulin because you're eating foods that are getting reading the same insulin effect and you're getting more insulin effect because you're eating all the time so you're eating less calories for having the same insulin in fact and then wondering why your weight is going up because you never corrected the problem which is this balance between insulin and leptin you need to get your insulin low for a significant amount of time and keep get your you're left to get low and that takes a long time because that is reset upwards very very gradually so if you think about standard sort of common obesity it's about a pound of weight gain one to two pounds per year which adds up over three decades sort of thing but that's it this gradually reset upwards so can you move it all back down in like a month and a half not really it's it's a long term process there's this really fascinating study about eating habits and the things that I've always talked about in you know in the obesity code is that it's not simply what we eat so if you look at the foods that we should eat there's there's really not that much disagreement nobody really thinks you should be eating a lot of white bread anymore so if you look that we all sort of agree unprocessed foods are good natural fats are sort of back so there's less you know avocados and nuts it's not that much controversy around the edges like saturated fat and so on there's still some controversy but if you look at what people say you should eat it's not that it's not that different the thing I've never talked about is the when to eat if you look at nineteen seventy seven how often people are eating it's about three times a day so I grew up in to some needs a breakfast lunch dinner you wanted to stack your mom said no you can't have a snack we don't have snacks and you're gonna ruin your dinner you want an after-dinner snack they're like no if you got hungry yes buddy you should be more dinner that exactly what they would have said and if you look at the latest data so 2004 2005 the Ann Haynes study which is this giant sort of American survey it's closer to six times a day average in 2005 sorry a couple of years ago they had this really interesting study where they gave somebody a smartphone app and people would just record when they ate and how much they ate sort of thing and they looked at how often people ate and they broke it in by deciles so each the top 10% of people in the bottom 10% so the the bottom 10% the peep that the 10% of people who ate the least frequently averaged 3.3 times hmm that is 90% of people ate more than three times a day it's and and the top 10 percent of people how often they it was ten times a day well it's ridiculous we're eating all the time so again if you think about it the way human nutrition is is not that complicated when you eat your body wants to store food energy because food Energy's coming in you should store it for a time that you don't have it and when you are not eating then insulin falls and you simply take that food energy that you store it and you burn it and that's why you don't die in your sleep like every single night it's like yes you don't have to eat muffins every two hours to survive like it's okay but that's the way nutrition is so if you think about it now we're eating sort of ten times a day instead of three times a day so 10 times a day we are telling our bodies to store fat it's like store fast or fast or fast or fat and that's like I wonder why I'm so fat it's like because you keep telling your body do that and if you want to if you want to burn fat then you got to tell it to stop burning fat and again it's a hormonal signal it's not a caloric signal it's a hormonal signal you got to let that insulin fall because it's when the insulin fall that the body's gonna start burning the glycogen gonna start burning the body fat if you keep your insulin high then you'll never do it because insulin is the signal to go high and this is the promo type-2 diabetes because you get this insulin resistance which leads to high insulin all the time so it gets harder and harder to lose weight as it goes so then as you get in sort of like 40 years in if you're 60 years old and you've been gaining weight since age 20 for example you have all this insulin resistance then of course the whole problem is that you have all this insulin resistance it keeps it high even though your diet may be good you have to you have to fight all those years of insulin resistance and that's why I also say that that obesity is really a time-dependent phenomenon that is the longer you have it the harder it is which the Clarke theory completely sort of ignores that is to say if you gain ten pounds from where you are right now you could lose that pretty easily yeah but if somebody is 65 it's pretty hard to lose that ten pounds because they've always had it and it's this sort of chronic resetting upwards of this body set weight that's the problem so actors in Hollywood do it all the time you see people they gain like ten for their 20 pounds for a roll and then they drop it and no no no biggie yeah of course they just gained it like two weeks ago they can lose it no problem right because their setpoint was relatively normal go there's that points here it takes time it hasn't really gone up but they force-fed themselves to gain that weight for whatever movie role they have to do so their body weights here but their set points here so then they simply stop eating because lectins too high they stop eating because they really don't want to eat and they just drop and we saw that in experiments with in the 1960s with the overfeeding studies so those are fascinating because they took these college kids and they said we want you to gain weight so this was an interesting story because Ethan Sims he wanted to study obesity so he said okay well you know what I'll make these rats gain weight so you just gave him food and they wouldn't gain weight when they're full they stopped which is exactly what happens in in in like the 1960s of course people ate until they're full and they stopped the key of course is they're not eating all the time but they so he thought okay well I can't make these rats get fat that's weird I thought it is pretty easy so he got these college kids and I said I want you to gain like 10 percent of your weight and they all thought it'd be easy and they couldn't do it they couldn't gain weight so he went to prison and he said okay I'm gonna take these people in prison and make them gain weight he he made sure they didn't exercise too much he had people watch them as they ate because you know their liberties were being restricted so they gained weight but is really really hard there's one guy he eventually gained sort of 25 percent of his body weight he was eating 10,000 calories a day well so you think okay what's going on he normally 820 500 calories a day for example he went up to 10,000 but as you went up to 10,000 his bodies that way was down here and his body is actively trying to burn off all those calories that are coming in now you can't make up that many calories so he did gain weight that's what happened he said when the experiment stopped his body set weights down here he's up here boom he lost all that weight in like two months without effort it's crazy that's crazy well you know a lot of bodybuilders not in review but a lot of bodybuilders use insulin for to put on mass you know because you you're at 190 pounds you want to be a professional onstage at 285 there's a long way to go right so they used insulin a lot of anabolic sex you rev up so that they can physically eat down much food yeah so it's crazy um you know a lot of people will say like oh I just have a sluggish metabolism and I remember reading some studies about that like overweight people their metabolisms not slow they're just storing more than they're burning you know yeah so that's really interesting about like you know increasing the food intake the body will compensate and will speed up resting metabolic rate but one thing that how can we mentally unravel the difference between calorie restriction like you know I want to lose whatever how many pound so I'm going to only eat 1200 calories per day and intermittent fasting and how calorie restriction reduces your resting metabolic rate but intermittent fasting does not help us like navigate that yeah that's a common question and the point is that calorie restriction first of all the body really has no idea what the hell you're doing so you restrict calories but the body does whatever it wants because it responds to hormones intermittent fasting is not about how many calories you eat it's about the time that you're not eating so you're not eating for 12 hours or 16 hours or 24 hours or 7 days and people always think that you know if I only eat once a day for example and I eat 1200 calories well that's exactly the same is about 1200 calories through that day no the difference is that if you you know let's do a thought experiment yeah if you eat sort of you know I equal sized portions of food sort of every hour you know throughout the whole day is that really the same as eating that one portion through that whole all at one sitting and it's not really because every time you kind of stimulate your insulin to go up and you keep telling your body to gain weight when you drop your insulin enough what's gonna happen is that you're going to tell your body to switch fuel sources okay so when you're eating all the time you're fueling your body on the food that's coming in so you eat two thousand calories you burn two thousand calories that's all food that's kind of going in and out and it's going through the short-term storage and the glycogen sure but if you let your insulin fall low enough then what happens is that you switch into burning fat so after you get through your glycogen then you get into your body fat and that's where you start to see the ketones and all this sort of stuff but you know that you're burning fat so for example if you're switching fuel sources there's no reason for your body to slow down so again let's take some numbers so if you have a 2,000 calories a day and you eat 1,200 but you're eating all the time and you're you're keeping your insulin high either because you're injecting it or you have insulin resistance and your insulin slicer insulin is high insulin blocks like pollicis so what that means and we've known this again for 50 years insulin stops you from burning fat why because insulin is telling your body to gain fat so you don't want to burn fat and gain found at the same time so we say insulin inhibits lipolysis so if insulin is high but you're only taking 1200 calories you have no access to your fat stores right because it blocks like pollicis insulin is high you can't burn fat so all you have coming in is 1200 calories all you can burn is 1200 calories your metabolic rate must slow down in order for you to survive because you don't want to die hmm what happens now if you allow your innocent to drop say you go on a 7 day fast and so you have zero calories coming in for seven days and I choose this not because I recommend it it's pretty it's fairly extreme in some cases but if you have insulin resistance at least I know you your insulin will fall so as your insulin falls then you're gonna switch from burning food to burning fat that's what's supposed to happen so if your body now sees okay I'm burning body fat there's like tons of this stuff yeah why do I need to slow down my metabolism in fact if you look at the physiology of fasting it actually maintains the metabolic rate because as insulin Falls you get a counter regulatory hormone surge and again this is sort of basic physiology insulin Falls the body increases sympathetic tone so the sympathetic nervous system adrenaline and noradrenaline growth hormone and cortisol we know that that's pretty basic because that's trying to get the glucose back out from the liver into the blood and those hormones the sympathetic nervous system adrenaline cortisol growth hormone are trying to push the glucose out well what do you think adrenaline does that's not slowing your metabolic rate right it's pumping it up and why does growth hormone go up but growth hormone is there because you have a period of gluconeogenesis at around 24 hours if you look at the physiology of fasting the glycogen stores which are chains of glucose in your liver that's the first sort of stuff you go to when you burn through your glycogen it lasts for 24 hours at 24 to 36 hours roughly you're gonna burn protein and that's where everybody says all your burning muscle know you're burning protein that's not necessarily muscle there's a lot of excess connective tissue there's a lot of excess fat that you should burn if you look at those you know documentaries of people whose weight they have all this excess skin yeah well that needs to be burned and you want to burn that that's not bad thing that's a good thing you want to get rid of that same thing with the Tophet you you want to get rid of this protein but if you keep getting rid of protein and never putting it back in that's not good either so what does a body do the body's not that stupid what it does is it pumps up growth hormone like you can't believe it goes up like 3 to 5 fold on a 5 day fast Wow and what it means is that when you eat again you're gonna rebuild that protein but not the protein that you didn't need that excess skin that you didn't need the stuff that you do need the same thing for @rg same thing for cancer cells same thing for all timers plaque and so on you actually have the ability to break down this protein that you don't want and that's why a lot of these people there's a lot of research going on into a tappa G caloric restriction in terms of longevity I mean there's a whole calorie notion which is not really physiologic but it's the same thing you really want to burn off this excess protein that's not making it good because the if you don't ever let your body break down this protein you can't actually build new protein because it's like if you have a bathroom that you want to renovate the first thing you got to do is pull out that sort of avocado green tub that was sitting from the 1970s if you don't pull out that tub you can't put in a nice new clawfoot tub you have to get rid of it first yeah then that's the way the body works if you look at turnover of bone there's osteoclasts and osteoblasts the first thing you do when you remodel BOE is chew up the old bone then you lay down new bone and that's healthier then keeping the old crappy bone there just like that old avocado green top so you have to break it down to rebuild it and that's what fasting does it actually breaks down the protein growl hormone goes through the roof and so does noradrenaline and some people have so much energy they're like I can't sleep I'm like waking up at like 3 a.m. and you know doing all this work I'm like one is like that's great if you want but if you can't then like yeah you know that's just one of the things that happens but what you're doing you're allowing access to those energy stores those fat stores remember fat is simply food that's stored away for you to use when there's no food available now that you've dropped your insulin you're allowing bought your body to access all those huge stores of energy and the body's going crazy and it's like yeah I'm going crazy I'm gonna do this so it burns it all off and at the same time it's breaking down this protein when you eat again growth hormone is so high you're going to rebuild your protein so when you look at clinical studies of weight loss you actually get much better retention of lean mass with an intermittent fasting strategy than a standard sort of cut 500 calories per day and these are the sort of myths that are out there the myth that your metabolites going to go down it's actually the exact opposite fasting does much better in terms of preservation of metabolic rate oh you're gonna lose all this muscle it's completely false it's actually the opposite if you try to lose weight with standard calorie restriction compared to intermittent fasting and the studies are there then you will do much better by doing the fasting because you're you're cycling the the sort of energy source you're just you're allowing your body to access those energy stores rather than keeping insulin hiding it away and then saying okay you can use whatever energy is coming in through the mouth and it's like 1,200 calories while you burn 1200 calories and that's the real problem is that the body and we saw this in the Biggest Loser so these Biggest Loser diets so they lose a lot of weight yeah and a lot of fat which is great but the problem is that the metabolic rate just kind of sank like a stone so yeah and one poor guy who is burning 3400 calories a day went down to like 1800 calories and what does a man drop that's a massive drop yeah I mean he he lost a lot of weight too but then the problem is that the body's used to burning this amount of calories so say say you normally take 2,000 calories then you go on this 1,500 calorie a day caloric restriction diet your body now can only burn 1,500 because you haven't dropped your insulin you haven't solved this sort of hormonal imbalance you're trying to solve this kauri imbalance but it's not a calorie imbalance you got the wrong problem she got the wrong solution so you drop your calories now the body insulin is still high because you're cutting fat and you're eating six times a day so your insulin is high you have no access to body fat you instead of burning 2,000 you're burning 1,500 guess what you're gonna feel cold you're gonna you feel sluggish your hair may fall out your nails might get brittle because everything takes energy your heart needs to pump your blood pressure your liver your kidneys and you've put them on this sort of restriction so you're cold and then your body makes you hungry you know that Gowland goes up your body makes you hungry because it wants to get backed up to that that weight and your metabolic rate slowing so you feel cold you feel tired you hunt feel hungry you feel like crap and you've stopped losing weight because your metabolic rate has gone down not to 59 that usually goes down to like 1450 or something like that yeah so now you're actually starting to regain that weight so you're on 1,500 calories your body's move this metabolic rate from 2,000 to 1450 you're regaining that way you said forget it I'm going to go back up to 1,700 calories now you just pile on the weight because you're still at 1450 mm-hmm and you're still feeling it like crap because you're used to burn 2,000 and your weights all back to where it was it's like sound familiar yeah well guess what that's what every single dieter does why not instead do the intermittent fasting drop your insulin levels very low for a period of time whatever time it is 16 hours 24 hour whatever it is during that time you allow your body to burn stored food energy hey why does it need to change from 2000 so this is the difference between calorie restriction of 1200 calories and eating one time or 1200 calories in you know one day is that you're taking 1200 calories for example from food and 800 calories from body fat because you've dropped your insulin and allowed your body to access that body fat now your body's like yeah I'm gonna burn 2,000 because I want to whereas before when your insulin is high you've blocked it off and you can only burn 1200 and that's the difference between sort of intermittent fasting and just calorie restriction and you can see why one works and one doesn't work you're simply allowing your body to access the stored food energy that's on your body and guess what that's what is therefore that's what body is the body fat is there for it's not there for looks it's there for you to use you know it's so brilliant I really wanted add more into insulin I think that's a great analogy you know that and it really underscoring the importance of the hormonal balance and speaking of hormones ghrelin is a hormone people talk about in the context of like why women shouldn't fast and there was a study came out that show that ghrelin reduction was actually better in women versus men which i think is interesting yeah that was a fascinating study so they talked about why women shouldn't fast and honestly I don't know why people say that it doesn't really make any sense I mean if the woman is underweight or at risk of anorexia sure that makes sense like you got to apply everything in a clinical context you're not gonna put a 16 year old 80 pound girl on some kind of fasting diet you're asking for trouble they might get anorexia nervosa sure but you put a 250 pound 60 year-old man on fasting he's not gonna get any sooner Roza okay so women can fast absolutely then grrrrrr Allen is so so-called hunger hormone so the higher it is the hungrier on and when they look that food craving so one of the things that we talk about all the time is people when they come in the the number one sort of concern about fasting is hunger they think I can't do it I'm gonna get so hungry and what you have to realize is that when you look at ghrelin over 24 hours if you don't even over 24 hours you see gorillas spike in a spikes three times at breakfast lunch and dinner so we're trained to eat a lot of people are trained to eat three times a day so when it comes around to noontime ghrelin spikes up but he is that doesn't continue to go up if you don't eat it actually just drops back down to normal and anybody who's worked through Dinard work through lunch knows this because at twelve o'clock one o'clock you're hungry but then you're so busy you're just working you're working or working by four o'clock it's as if you ain't there's actually no difference in hunger if you ate or you didn't eat why is that well because insulin fell your body essentially ate lunch out of your own body fat it's like okay that's perfect that's exactly what we want it to do but the hunger does not keep going up it comes in waves and I say you got to ride those waves out because they will come they'll be dinner time you're gonna get hungry but if you bribed it out it's gonna go down so if you look at food cravings you see the same thing so you can do these questionnaires and this study looked at food cravings and they compared a sort of standard calorie restriction diet to is sort of ultra ultra low calorie diet like a couple hundred calories a day sort of thing and what they found was that the cravings essentially disappeared and women versus men had much higher levels of these ghrelin spikes and it sort of makes sense when you talked about people who are chocoholics and crave these foods it's women for more than men whom these sugar cravings and all that and physiologically you see that the women have these much higher morale and spikes and they come right down when you fast them so again if you have cravings the important thing is not to say well I'm gonna eat a little bit because it's like an itch if you're a parent you know that you don't touch that edge if you scratch it it's gonna get worse mm-hmm it's the same thing with cravings you don't say okay I'm gonna take a little bit because it's gonna get worse yeah if you take those cravings for and it applies to everything so you have a craving for sweets if you all of a sudden stop eating sweets entirely those cravings actually disappear so fasting is much more powerful because if you have cravings for bread and then you just stop eating bread those cravings will actually diminish whereas if you just eat oh I'm just gonna eat a little bit of bread all the time we're gluten free bread low carb prayers not your way even if you reduce the amount of bread that you eat or sweets that you eat because you have to take those sort of cravings down to a zero level take the food down to the zero level and then the cravings disappear and that's the real power of the intermittent fasting and also the ketogenic diets for example so if you're eating ultra low carb well after a while you soon to get used to it and those cravings for the carbs go away and that's one of the sort of keys to a lot of people's success is that once they stop eating it they find that they don't really need it but if you eat it sometimes you're gonna get those cravings right back they come right back and and sort of knowing this is important because then you can say well you can now use this information to your advantage because if you know you have this sort of addictive behavior and so on you can use these to get rid of your cravings at the same time do something which is very healthy and you know has all these other benefits in terms of protein breakdown and at off of G and all these other things yeah and that and that's the real key is the having that knowledge allows you to sort of say okay well I'm gonna do this I'm gonna do this and this is getting back to what I was saying is that to me weight loss is really about sort of two things what you eat and when you eat and sort of we talked endlessly and then to see about the what to eat but the when to eat is sort of completely ignored so if you ignore sort of like this huge sort of fifty or sixty percent of the problem you're gonna fail because you're not addressing it because we've gone from eating sort of three times a day to somewhere around six to ten times a day and we think it's good for you right you see this all the time and the question is where did this advice that you have to eat all the time come from food industry you know fitness and is up there it sure didn't come from the doctors because no doctor I know has ever found any study that proves that eating six or eight times a day is good for you and nobody in the history of humanity has ever done that because they have work to do yeah yeah feels you have to go you know plow the fields you're not spending all your time eating and yet we think that we shouldn't go more than a couple of hours without stuffing cookies in our mouths and we teach our children this yeah you should look at my son schedule I mean not anymore but when they were in like grade school and so on eat breakfast in the middle of morning a couple cookies or something lunch after school those you know fruit or something dinner and then you go to soccer and oh in between the hands Oh another granola bar like come on you know I used to go out and play after dinner and it's like you didn't eat you're busy playing you didn't have to you don't need to stop to eat and so you didn't eat anything from dinner until at least breakfast the next day if you eat breakfast yeah I deal with that with my daughter right now and it seems that there's always a birthday party some special event and it's always sugar-based foods yeah my topic for another conversation but you know I think it's really you know kind of fascinating about the ladies you know that ghrelin spike and so forth and going back to that just completely I don't having you know my problem with diet foods is there's the Paleo Donuts the low-carb donuts and all this stuff is emerging for people and like you said the addition is a kick the habit obviously we need to enjoy life too and have a little you know food periodically but um you know one whatever advise a heroin addict just take a small little hit yeah okay just a small like they have to go cold turkey so that's kind of an interesting yeah and and and again the the key is understanding that there's a difference between these sort of carbohydrate insulin hypothesis and the insulin hypothesis the instant hypothesis says that insulin is one of the key regulators of body weight which i think is true what's not true is that carbs are the only sort of input into that system and that's where a lot of people get into these debates because it's like can you eat high carb foods and still have low insulin absolutely so you go back to the Okinawan for example they're eating 65% sweet potato diets there there's no obesity whatsoever you go to the Kitab and they're eating sort of 65 70 percent carbohydrates their serum insulin levels are like five percentile compared to a Swedish population no obesity well why is that well a big part of it is that you're not eating all the time so even though you're eating cassava and root vegetables and all this and you got to remember again in the 1980s in China all white rice and vegetables eating 10 times a day there's like almost no sugar in that diet there's a lot of carbohydrates so there's you can look at the the Chinese and some people say oh they're eating brown rice they're not eating brown rice like I have relatives from there everybody's eating white rice it's all refined grains but they're not eating all the time they're eating very little sugar like almost zero sugar and I think you know for different reasons sugar is much much much more fattening than any other carbohydrate out there and this is even though you get no insulin effect of fructose so fructose has no insulin of fact that has no glycemic index of fact so people used to think it's great but it's actually very very bad for you and I think it's sort of like 20 times as fattening as say Brad which has sort of glucose as opposed to the Frog dose mm-hmm so there's no sugar in that they're not eating all the time there's no you know there's there's all these other sort of mitigating factors that keep their insulin low so you can eat a low fat diet you can eat a high fat diet and still keep your insulin low and we see this in traditional societies all over the world there are societies that are based on eating meat and they do fine and there's societies that are based on eating white rice like China and they're doing fine obesity wise obesity and type 2 diabetes but yet they're widely vary in terms of their macronutrients so I should never tell people to eat you know to watch the macronutrient I don't think it's that important but you have to always keep in mind the insulin effect and a huge part of that is sort of frequency of eating and getting that way down so if three per day is sort of what people have traditionally done and done fairly well with that well that's pretty good but if you've been eating 10 a day for the last 10 years going back to 3 a day is not gonna cut it you're not gonna lose weight like that you got to go lower than 3 to make up for those surger 10 yeah years of 10 a day and and and you know just like the you know and this is where the calories thing in the insulin thing really overlaps because again anything you eat assuming it's a blend of the three macronutrients is going to stimulate insulin to some effect and it's gonna have some calories so there is going to be an overlap between calories and insulin effect so that's where the confusion comes in because people say oh it's just all about calories like it's not about calories there's nothing to do with calories but there's an overlap between the two but what when you look at Islan what you say is that a hundred calories of certain foods are more fattening than hundred calories of other foods which is sort of common sense and what your grandmother sort of would have told you like she's not gonna say oh you know eat cookies and for dinner and I've seen this advice given help by doctors so if you want cookies and ice cream eat it instead of dinner and you'll be fine oh my god God yeah no clue because you can't hear you can go or that physiology I mean there's a whole thing to do a satiety for example remember that as you eat foods you're gonna activate certain satiety signal so if you go to the buffet and you eat like a lot like way too much and then you try and eat a couple more pork chops it's like you'll never do it you can't do it you can't force the pork chop down but if you're to eat some cookie you could easily do that there were no time for cookies exactly because there's no satiety effect of those highly refined grains the sugar the fructose you're gonna get the calories you're gonna get the insulin effect but you're not gonna get any sort of satiety effect yeah that's why I used to think it's very strange because you can eaten lunch in this guy I used to think this is a kid actually it's very strange that you can eat lunch or you can eat lunch with a big soda and you'll feel exactly the same in terms of fullness but you've taken a lot more calories when you drink that big soda it's like I wonder why I you know you think of for 2,000 calories I should feel the same amount of fall no it's completely different and this is the thing with natural foods is that they have natural satiety Meck so if you eat a lot of beans which is all carbohydrates while you'll stretch your stomach you'll activate stretch receptors if you eat a lot of steak you're going to activate peptide YY which is for protein you're gonna activate in cretons which is for you know another satiety signal you're gonna activate cholecystokinin which is a satiety signal you're gonna activate the vagus nerve also in terms of stretch receptors so you can eat something which is very bulky and feel full or you can eat something that's very not bulky and feel full because we have natural satiety mechanisms and this is part of you know human physiology because our our we don't want to die like we don't want to stuff ourselves so much like you hear these arguments that oh you know we're genetically programmed to get fat we just eat everything in front of our face it was like you try eating that 60 ounce steak that you'll get for free if you eat in an hour they're not going out of business any time soon because there's powerful satiety mechanisms but processing does is it removes all that so you take flour so if you're to eat carbohydrates like beans you're gonna get full even rice you're gonna get full but not as full as you might think but now you take flour you take out all the fats you take out all the protein because the fat goes rancid so you don't want to cook rancid so if you take out all the fat you take out all the protein you cut down a lot of the bulk of the fiber well you've just lost three satiety signals you've lost those stretch receptors in the stomach you've lost the the protein satiety signals and you've lost the fat satiety signals then you grind it into a fine powder because you know flour when you throw it up it's very fine you grind it into a fine powder then it gets absorbed super fast so just like okay and the reason people grind it up is so that they can get that massive high so now you grind it up you get this massive high when you're eating your white bread now okay so it's fine for a bit and then two hours later it crashes because you've just gone spiked up and spiked down and then you want to eat a muffin because you had that bagel in the morning and it's all gone now because it's gone up and down so that's where the processing is completely different as opposed to say even like a potato if you need a baked potato it's pretty filling like hard over you does yeah it's pretty hard I mean when you process it when you do things like potato chips and stuff in that deep fryer and that's alright yeah it changes things yeah but it's pretty difficult to eat to overeat a boiled potato like people have put gone on these potato diets and III potatoes sometimes it's pretty filling like that's why this whole meat and potatoes you know sort of thing is because the me the potato is actually one of the highest foods on the satiety index so if you eat a potato calorie for calorie you will feel more full than virtually anything else hmm it's hard to overeat boiled potatoes yeah baked potatoes is kind of similar it's it's pretty hard to overeat that but again you're activating natural satiety mechanisms like the potato is pretty big it's it's gonna fill up it's gonna activate these other stretch receptors it has it's almost all starch so there's very little fat very little protein but it's gonna activate other things so the Irish for example ate tons of potatoes didn't have much of a problem until recently until the 70s just like everybody else so there's there's a lot of things so yes there's carbohydrates but what's really important is the insulin because you can eat a sort of low fat diet high in carbohydrates and still have low insulin levels and still have very little B C and that that wasn't what came out in the diet fit studied so this was that study that Chris garner did a couple of weeks ago I guess it got released and what it showed was that if you take people and put on a low fat diet and a low carb diet they did roughly equally but it wasn't just any kind of low low fat diet it's not like white bread and jam sort of thing it was all unprocessed foods it was all and you see that yaki had a period of yeah yeah also you weren't supposed to eat all the time yeah and there were another farmers market yeah exactly there's a whole lot of stuff in there it wasn't like go out and eat some of some pasta and white bread yeah it was this sort of healthy sort of eat lots of vegetables and you know there was a whole lot of it and I was looking at that study and I was thinking that's exactly what we tell people you know unprocessed foods because it's not simply about the carbohydrates we have to move past that you have to get into this sort of insulin because that's the sort of language the body speaks if you're speaking about carbs and proteins and stuff that's not really there's it's closer to but it's not exactly the language that the body understands the body responds to signals which are hormones so you wanna get your insulin high the body's gonna gain weight well you can eat a low fat diet you can eat low carb diet and still have the same effect on insulin so that's where I differ from some of the people in terms of the carb insulin hypothesis you can eat a high protein diet for example all meat diet you can do all of these things and still get the same effect of low insulin and therefore less obesity less type-2 diabetes and that's where understanding the sort of physiology gets you around all these debates and you know tries to understand why people can eat different diets and still do well and and that's the that's you know that's what I try and bring out in the books is sort of the science and the understanding to do it yeah great I have two examples of that definitely one dive into insulin especially I didn't know was discovered here in Toronto yeah super fasting but you mentioned the satiety signals at Whole Foods garner on the body and they're kind of lost in the processing of food and one example of a remedy that you talk about I personally am very interested in this as well I've been studying it for a while its gastric bypass or bariatric surgery in the hormonal I'm not a fan of the procedure saying that it's good for weight loss but admiring the mechanism of action through which gastric or bariatric surgery affects insulin resistance is really interesting you take a full-blown insulin dependent type 2 diabetic as you know 12 hours after the procedure they don't need insulin because they've got hormones that you mentioned are upregulated with whole real food are super physiologic we up regular and so yeah bariatric surgery is fascinating because it's quite successful and people used to say well why does it work maybe it's because you cut out a big swath of the stomach right you come in with like 90% of the stomach and therefore you can't produce certain hormones well the problem with that is that you can do gastric banding where you put a sort of belt around the stomach and cinch it really tight and you get the same effect since you're not cutting out any part of the stomach then the benefits cannot be from from from cutting out the stomach and the truth is that the the effect is simply a severe caloric restriction you're basically putting them very close to fasting as much as you possibly can for months at a time I mean they're eating so little that you're you might as well be fasting so fasting you know the whole point is to get your insulin down now you're not eating you can't eat because they've cut out all your stomach and they've rewired your intestines so that you you know even if you eat food it's not getting absorbed well what's gonna happen well instance gonna drop and I'm gonna keep dropping so what's gonna happen is that your body's gonna burn off all that sugar or not the sugar diabetes goes away bad as it burns off all that sugar then it's gonna burn all that fat and guess what the weight loss is very very good so the mechanism is quite easy to understand once you understand that it's really about changing the insulin which is the main hormone it's not the only hormone that's responsible for weight gain cortisol is another one but for the most part it's about insulin so that once you understand that you can see this is why Bariatrics is so affected and sometimes you say well this is really just medical Bariatrics all these fasting therapies is just medical Bariatrics and and but it's not easy it's not fun and that's really one of the things that we try to do so we have a program for this which is the intensive dietary management program and people can join and we have sort of so the website is IDM program com and if you know we put out a lot of stuff for free like these sort of videos and we do podcasts and blog I do weekly blog post and there's lots of free stuff and if people can just get the information and there's the books either that are very inexpensive or you can take it from the library so there's a lot of information out there but sometimes people want a little bit more guidance so what we've done is we've provided sort of a little bit more guidance question and the answers group fast because again it's about building this community of people who will help each other and that's one of the secrets of any kind of behavior change is that you do better in a group so whether you're looking at Weight Watchers or Alcoholics Anonymous the point is that changing behaviors is difficult to do and if you have people who will support you your success rate is going to be much much higher so we're trying to put together a community in our membership program that people can join for a fee and then get the guidance from sort of trained professionals that they need they get the sort of extra extra help that they need to do it if you can do it on your own great but most people they get out that they start fasting and then some doctor tells them oh god you're gonna kill yourself and then they're done and then it's like oh but you know you could have gained so much with it and then we also have sort of an additional program where people will provide sort of small group sort of in groups of three or four of course anytime you do that it's much more expensive because you're getting sort of personalized care but at least it's available for you so there's we try and provide sort of everything from the free stuff to the books and the podcast and you know the stuff we're doing here the you know so that you know I hope people can just listen and do it themselves but hey if you if you need some help or we're also here we can give you more help if you need it the membership site is $39 a month I think and it's like we do these group files which are very popular so that people fast all together for three or four days and it's not necessarily you do the full four days maybe you do a 24-hour fast for three days or but because you're doing it with a group of sort of supportive people it's easier and then you get the benefit and and in school we understand this we call it peer pressure and it's got a negative connotation in as adults it's called peer support because it's like we're trying to change behavior and you're joining a group to get the support that you need and guess what it's like very very important it's it's actually like it sounds like it's it's one of these kind of throw away things but it's actually as we started doing our program we've been doing it for about five years now that was one of the sort of keys to success was getting people into the small groups and into the bigger groups where people can talk about fasting without getting laughed at essentially and that's been very important and then I realized of course that's the whole secret of Weight Watchers or the biggest Oprah led company now but their diets nothing special it's a decent-enough diet but you could have gotten that diet anywhere right you could have gone to any book and gotten that diet the secret sauce was the peer support Alcoholics Anonymous again peer support being out there and we're fighting such a big fight because the the conventional dietary advice is to eat sort of eight ten times a day eat these low fat foods so we're sort of swimming upstream in terms of our advice because we generally advise people to eat sort of whole unprocessed real foods often low carbs or not necessarily and then intermittent fasting whether it's less than a day or more than a day and that's where people it gets people's kind of goat up is that the in term in fasting really scares a lot of these people and then they get scared out of it right away they don't have that peer support so we're trying to build that in into our program and if that's what you need you know we're hopefully providing it at a fairly reasonable price I mean if you're if you're skipping a meal I mean that that's like the cost of you're gonna come out ahead if you do that totally that's awesome IDM program comm program the show notes in blue this video and then let's kind of finish off on the book a little bit a few things a few that I remember like they're inked in my head you can't fix a dietary disease with medicine I might box out a little bit but I think that's really important because you know a lot of people don't realize that traditional medical system like the solution and for a lot of traditionally trained practitioners is insulin more and more insulin and what happens when you get more and more insulin yeah the problem is that type 2 diabetes is he really misunderstood disease by the doctors then what they don't understand is that they're treating sort of the blood glucose well so the blood glucose or blood sugar is high so they try and get it down if you give insulin well does that get rid of the sugar and the answer is no you simply the insulin takes that sugar it simply crams it into your liver okay and then liver turns it into factor de novo lipogenesis or sends that sugars everywhere else so sugar goes into your eyes and your liver into your nerves into your legs into your heart and what happens well what happens over decades is that as you keep cramming the sugar from that blood you had excess trigger in the blood you never got rid of it but you took insulin to cram it into your body your body sort of just blows up with way too much sugar and then every part of your Anatomy just rots so you're gonna go blind and you get heart attacks you get strokes and get nerve damage and get amputations you get diabetic foot infections and it's like why do diabetics get infections that nobody else in the whole world gets go is there sugar there's so much sugar sitting around in that foot then you get infections like yeast infections that love the sugar and it's crazy because what it means is that type 2 diabetes is essentially being treated completely incorrectly we're treating the blood glucose so we know the blood glucose is high because of the type 2 diabetes but the blood glucose is not the disease the symptom so if you treat the symptom but don't treat the disease then you're not going to get anywhere it's symptomatic treatment and that's the real problem we are treating the symptom and pretending like that's the real disease so yes we got the blood glucose down have you treated the type 2 diabetes with your insulin and the answer is no well everybody knows that if you lose weight your diabetes gets better so insulin makes you gain weight so right your diabetes not getting better it's getting worse and the whole point is that you simply can't take the sugar in your blood and cram it away where you can't see it and pretend you're better you got to get rid of that sugar so in essence the simplest way to understand type-2 diabetes is that there's just too much sugar in the body the body is overfilled with sugar well if it's overfilled with sugar then you just gotta get rid of the sugar what do you do 1 don't put more sugar in eat a low carbohydrate diet and number 2 burn it all off and that's intermittent fasting so what we've done is we've taken this dietary disease and instead of treating the root cause of it which is the diet we're eating too much too much carbohydrates predominantly because we were told to and we're eating too too many times too frequently but what we've done is instead of treating the actual cause of it we tried to drug it we're trying to drug these people back to health then we're not treating what was the actual problem in the first place and then we wonder why is everybody getting worse in the worst part is that the answer that most specialist researchers give is that type 2 diabetes is just like that it's a chronic and progressive disease it's like no it's chronic and progressive because you treated it completely wrong the disease is actually reversible we know that anybody who loses weight the diabetes refers to as we knew that from Bariatrics you can take the most severe type 2 diabetic and within 2 weeks they'll be off of all their insulin for example because they're basically burning it all off because they're fasting it's not really hard to understand if you don't eat you're gonna burn off that sugar your blood sugar will drop if your blood sugar drops you don't need to take insulin well that's not so hard to understand but now you're dealing with the actual problem of sugar overload as opposed to trying to give more insulin so here we have a situation which is sort of mind-boggling that 99% of diabetics type 2 diabetics in this country in this world are actually being treated I think completely incorrectly and that's why since everybody's getting worse the doctors say well it's chronic and progressive because I gave them insulin and they got worse so therefore the disease must be like that yet at the same time knowing that this disease cannot possibly like that because we just proved it with our bariatric surgery that we could take this guy do something to him which is basically fast them for like three months and make him completely better everybody who has type 2 diabetes is reversible except up until the very late stage that's a fact that we've sort of proven with our bariatric surgery and it's a fact that we already knew because we know that if your friend loses 50 pounds he's gonna get off his diabetic medication no doctors gonna say oh I wonder why that happened it's like well obviously right but so we know this for a fact that it's a reversible disease yet we pretend it's chronic from progressive because we've been doing such a bad job because we've been using the wrong treatment interesting when in your career so you've been practicing medicine for over 20 years right about 20 years and you talked about in the book like I know how to make people fat you know you're in some system give them insulin at what point did you see enough patients gain more and more weight when you were falling the standard of care that you said this can't be right well it was it took a little time yeah dogmas very hard to break and interestingly it was the patients who all knew they're all like you know you gave me insulin I'm gaining weight like crazy here like how is that good and the answer is it wasn't good but I didn't know the answer so I said well you know it's just the way it is I mean that's that's what I said that's what everyone else said too but at some point I mean it was 2008-2009 that we started getting some of the data that really showed that giving insulin is not a good idea to type two diabetics which when you look back at it is completely sort of rational that is we know in type 2 diabetes that insulin levels are high so why are you giving more insulin I mean isn't that like giving alcohol to an alcoholic how do you think they're gonna get better if you give alcohol to an alcoholic they're they're shaking might get better but their alcoholism which is the actual disease gets worse so it's the same thing you give insulin to somebody has too much insulin the blood sugar gets better but the diabetes gets worse and that's what we've been doing we've been treating these addicts with heroin it's like oh my god and what's scary is that people are still doing it today right now and pretending it's the right treatment it's like oh okay well that's not a good there's a lot a good idea and there's like no wonder everybody's getting worse no wonder the health of the nation is getting worse because we've sort of focused on the wrong sort of quadrant which is we think it's a drug problem but it's a diet problem we took type 1 diabetes which is where insulin very low so if insulin is very low then give insulin that's a good treatment citizens very high don't give insulin that's not a good treatment yeah you know ladies you said not solving the root cause of the problem it's not an insulin deficiency syndrome as type 1 diabetes is you have two receptor gosh we could go on and talk all about this stuff I really want to commend you for all your great work both the books the obesity code really changed my mind on a lot of different things particularly that the time the latency how long someone has been overweight that that it's going to affect their weight loss and I think that's something that people really need to think about you know because if they see the lean purse and get shredded for spring break and like why I want to do that but they've been overweight for 35 years so we need to be realized and that calorie three theories simply can't explain that because the calorie theory would say that if you've been overweight for ten years or ten days it's the same yeah you create that caloric deficit and you're both is a lose weight yeah and everybody knows that's not gonna happen right and yet we pretend oh yeah of course of course it's all about calories it's like what are you like do you live in the real world like do you actually treat people because everybody knows that that guy who's been overweight for thirty years that those pounds ain't coming off yeah like in ten days like like like the 20 year old who gained a few pounds from a few beers at spring break right so yeah absolutely that's that's that's the key to understanding and the physiologies all been there but it's been sort of distorted by all of this sort of you know other interests like particularly food companies for example sugary beverage companies who want the calorie theory to be correct and this is one of the things that you know we're really looking to get into is sort of advocacy to get the sort of conflicts of interest out of medicine having been in medicine I realized that there's actually all these problems like there's not just pharmaceuticals but you know the research so we all pretend we live in this world of evidence-based medicine the problem is if all the met if all the evidence is corrupt then evidence-based medicine is also going to be corrupt so if all your evidence is produced by pharmaceuticals is produced by people getting paid by the sugar industry for example well you're gonna think sugar is fine and we have studies that prove that a funded study so if you fund a study then you're like something like six to ten times more likely to finding result favoring your sponsor well that's just human nature so we have a guy in Toronto a dr. Stephen Piper who is out there all the time saying sugars good fructose is good it's like a health food like okay that's really dumb that's what I'm thinking and then of course in the newspaper in the National Post last year which is our national newspaper it's like oh yeah he takes hundreds of thousands of dollars from the sugar industry coca-cola and everybody I'm like okay makes sense well here's this makes total sense and here's the sugar industry funding the University of Toronto which is happily taking all this cash they're taking all this money and producing shoddy research it's like I don't blame the sugar company the sugar company or the pharmaceutical or the big food company I don't blame them at all because their responsibility is to sell sugary beverage that's their responsibility to the company to their shareholders that's their whole goal it's out there coke is there to sell coke that's his job the problem is that we allow coke to pay the University of Toronto millions of dollars to produce crappy research why do we allow that if you give a New York City policeman a cold drink he could get fired because it's a conflict of interest if you give the judge sort of a slice of pizza he or she could get fired for taking that slice of pizza and we all say of course you can't bribe a judge whether it's a slice of pizza or a car it's the same principle mmm the reciprocity exactly because when I give you something you're gonna feel better towards me that's all human nature so we say okay I understand this everybody understands this so therefore you are not nobody is allowed to give policeman nobody's allowed to give judges anything but we say oh yeah if you're a big company you can give doctors however much money you want so you look at a journal like the Journal of the American car College of Cardiology and the editors which decide which journals got published you know what everything is on average they're taking each over four hundred thousand dollars a year from companies and it's like okay I don't blame the company the company if it if it means selling more stuff that's what they should be doing the question is why do we allow that to happen when it doesn't apply to anybody else you can't give four hundred thousand dollars to a New York Times journalist they will get fired by the New York Times they will absolutely get fired you can't go to some company I'll call big companies have this rule I can't go to the Brant bank manager and say oh hey here's ten thousand bucks he's gonna give me a loan right he's gonna get fired or she's gonna get fired everywhere and in in we know this we put rules on it but yet when it comes to our health we say hey dr. Stephen Piper you can take here's a couple here's $500,000 just do some research on why sugar is good for you and he produces it and then people come out and say well the evidence says that sugar is good for us it's like isn't that the most ridiculous situation you've ever heard this is one of the things that really has to get out there because if you have differences of opinion between scientists that's fine that's how science works everybody has a different opinion I don't mind that's a look the vegans have a different opinion than I do that's fine the problem is when you get all these sort of commercial interests in it but it's not a problem for the commercial interests I mean the drug companies they're allowed to do it so they should do it and they will do it because that's what they are stated their stated goal is the stated goal is to sell more drug right what we have to do is we have to be on our you know political you have to get political and really say okay we shouldn't allowing any of this anybody who teaches students medical students teaches at the university it's not allowed to take money like it seems like a no-brainer yeah they take hundreds of thousands of dollars every single one of them these programs that the the pharmaceuticals put out they pay a doctor fifteen hundred dollars to give an hour-long talk lots of doctors do it the more prominent the more money they get they pay editors of large journals like hundreds of thousands of dollars each to get their research into it the studies are all produced by drug companies and we know that if that's the case then it's more far more likely to be biased and then and the whole thing and people complain about oh you know it's big sugar and big tobacco and big meat it's like that's the first thing we should be doing this saying we need new rules nobody's allowed to pay university professors any kind of money you want to be a university professor you want the privilege of teaching medical students you get paid by the university you don't get paid by anybody else if you want to write guidelines clinical guidelines for diabetes clinical guidelines for Dietary Guidelines whatever it is anybody who writes any kind of guideline is not allowed to take money from anybody because doctors are the worst because they take lots of money from everybody and they think that just disclosing it is fine it's like I don't care if you say it don't do it you can't you don't have a judge out there saying oh yeah I've been paid by this this this this and that so you go to these lectures and they're terrible because you get we have financial disclosure slides and so anytime you go to any lecture somebody will flash up a slide and there's like 15 drug companies on it that he's been paid by he goes and he'll always say something like I'm not biased because I'm paid by everybody and every laughs I'm thinking oh my god yeah you guys don't even know how crooked the whole situation is because in any other sphere of life it would be completely unacceptable would it be acceptable for your child's teacher to be getting money from their nose wallah yeah absolutely not right absolutely 100% not you would never stand for it I would never stand for it if I knew my teacher my child's teacher was being paid by coke and hey teaches them that coke is okay but yet coke can pay dr. Steven Piper lots of money to come out and say hey sugars good for you then he teaches to the medical students hey sugar it's good for you which teaches you yeah that sugar is good for you and then you get diabetes and die it's like that's very wrong there's something very wrong there and that's one of the things I really have to really have to you know get the rules changed not because they're stricter than anybody else we need the rules same rules as everybody else and and and and the health of the sort of whole nation sort of depends on it we have so many of these researchers that are just on the payroll it's like publishing biased so it's kind of a partying note here how do you look at research then now to try and look at it more objectively with the idea that this could be funded in a different way yeah it's really hard that's why most most people who have understand evidence-based medicine think it's completely crap so there's guys like there's a former editor-in-chief of the New England Journal of Medicine land said these are the two sort of most prominent medical journals in the world who have both said yeah after like 20 years of being in the business I realized that it's all crap most of what we publish is not true there's this replication bias you know where people try and try and juice up their findings so that it gets in newspapers and then when they were trying to replicate the study it's like oh it wasn't true at all they only got the result because they were trying to find a result to get in the newspaper sort of thing so anybody who actually understands evidence-based medicine so you know that these are the sort of that the editors and chief the guys who have been there and done that and lived that life they've all basically turned their back and said it's all just crap now and it's not that the idea is bad it's a good idea but what you have to do is say get all the commercial interests out of science you can't have a drug company doing a study on their own drug and saying this is the best thing since sliced bread everybody should do it and anybody who doesn't do it is some Luddite who doesn't understand evidence-based medicine it's like okay but there's something really wrong here if the heroing company is saying look at this study heroin everybody and and then came out and taught the doctors and gave doc there's hundreds of thousands of dollars to teach medical students that heroin is good for you we'd say buddy that study was funded by the heroin company you can't trust it but when we say oh that study was funded by the drug company we're like yay it's like like logic is just like I'm like kind of appalled sort of yeah with how how everything is developed in medicine and that logic seems to sort of play no role in in what we do that is you can't allow drug companies to do their own study and then tout their own horn and then dictate how we do medicine yeah that's great like you've given up you've given it up and why because our leaders our University professors are all on the payroll it's crazy yeah it's a great book about biases decisive by the heath brothers Dan and chippy and so I just noticed that I you know it's a someone who's been in and the beneficiary of fasting and the ketogenic diet I'm very biased Pro that but now when I read research I try and really be aware of that because you find yourself seeking out more of the same so human nature were very very biased creature so you can see how this could happen but but if in terms of like kind of a parting piece of advice like the biggest health issue do you think that's one of them that the so-called evidence-based medicine is really industry funded and yeah I think that there's sort of a couple of things I mean there's from from a health standpoint honestly its metabolic syndrome obesity type 2 diabetes that's clearly going to be the issue of our times yeah it's killing tons of people carting fast or disease stroke cancer those are the biggest sort of three killers of Americans and they're all sort of metabolic problems so the the sort of that's sort of the biggest problem and going to the sort of standard medical dogma is not great for the related issue of a lot of bias and medicine research the good news is that you have you can take control of your own health you know through understanding like what we're talking about do the cutting out processed foods reducing the number of times that you eat intermittent fasting and sort of regain sort of 90% of your house from the good news from a patient perspective is that yes you can do something about right now the larger societal issue is exactly that to get the bias out of medical science because the reason that medical science is hopelessly bad is that there's just too much bias so if you look back at the 1970s the obesity goes from very little to very high so we're worse than we were in 1970 yeah if you look at technology in the 1970s computer is like the size of this room it has like you know a tenth of the computing power of my iPhone it's like that's the power of human ingenuity in nutrition we've gone backwards we've gone we would have gone from the computer the size of this room to a computer the size of this entire code language yeah it's ridiculous hmm and it's because there's too much bias we get people saying that sugars good for you I mean tobacco is the same thing for years people said no problem no problem why they're all on the payroll okay so we understand that for tobacco why don't we understand it for drug companies for this and that and again it's not that I'm anti drug companies drug companies have a very valuable role but they need to be sort of over there and the university has to be over here and you have to split them and if their drug is good then the university will say okay well your drug goes good well at least I know that you're not paying the guy who's saying it's good yeah again it's it's it's pure common sense and it's like we just have to change that to move far so that's sort of the larger I think that in the end that's the larger societal issue the individual issue that's the biggest that's going to impact everybody is gonna be you know how to apply the proper standards of nutrition in term in fasting I think that part has been missing for so long and really until I started talking about it I don't think anybody was talking about fasting truthfully no not in not in terms of how their body builders and stuff but not in terms of treatment of disease and that kind of thing that part is the biggest part for the individual patient but they can actually do something about it and that's what I hope to do with their books with the IPM program and with the blog and with the podcast and your podcast and all that sort of stuff that's where we try to do try and empower people to sort of take control because it's like if you watch this and you decide to do it and get better hey I don't get paid but guess what if if you you write to me and say you know what I watched your thing with Mike and I lost 50 pounds I got rid of my diabetes I'm paid in a totally different way you know that's much more valuable than the money throws it like oh I we were able to help these people feels great feels great minimal amount of money is gonna get for you yeah and that's the that's the point that's the point is that people can can do that yeah and the book is great you know it goes through the historical role that fasting has had in humankind and as a medical therapy think back to 1770 something or a long time ago so you have the books awesome it's available as you guys watch this video it should be available on Amazon for pre-orders worldwide so commend you on all that great stuff IDM program comm if people want to get into the membership site and get into that group setting which i think is great and by the way you mention like pure support there's the pure influence to like when doctors like you have a paid speaker goes in from a room and there's all these other doctors and they're pitching it and they buy into it so it's part of the yeah so the part of the group is powerful it can help you lose weight and balance your blood sugar - so dr. Fung thanks again this is a lot of fun coming on yeah thank you very much my pleasure all right all right a lot of good stuff thank you
Leptin resistance probably is my problem, I never feel full even if I eat half the world.
Watched this whole video yesterday. Really good info.
It is really interesting. It is just that my skeptical alter ego keeps asking me how come I never heard this internal set weight hypothesis anywhere else. (oh shut up!)
This is an amazing video and basically he summarizes his book Obesity code...If anyone tells you eat less and move more to lose weight, send them to this video!