Lee Strobel: When You're Mad at Yourself

[Music] well how do you like the Chicago weather I gotcha huh huh yeah you know was 29 degrees in Conroe this morning 29 degree we have frost on our roof not compared to Chicago though Chicago that's a whole different kind of cold it once got so cold in Chicago I saw a politician with his hand in his own pocket that's cold that was really cold but we've been talking about forgiveness over these last few weeks been talking in this series called anger management and if you were here the first week we talked about what do you do when you're mad at God when you have those emotions of the mad at God what do you do and we talked about how we can pray through that and how we can think through that and talk through that and then last week we talked about what do you do when you're mad at others in fact when you're chronically mad and you have enemies in your life how do you learn to love them as Jesus told us we should and we talked about a five-point biblical peace plan that spells out a process that we can actually come to the place of loving our enemies well this week we're gonna wrap it up with kind of an unusual topic we're gonna talk about what happens when you're mad at yourself you ever a man at yourself you ever have a sense of shame over something you've done maybe something in your past something with your family something at work whatever it is a sense of shame and regret and and it kind of weighs you down like an anchor one of my favorite verses is Romans 8 verse 1 says this there is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus I'm gonna say that again cuz that's really good there is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus and yet we hear that and we know that if we come to faith in Christ if we come to him in repentance in faith if we receive Jesus as our forgiver and the leader of our life we know we're forgiven we know we're adopted into his family but sometimes we find it hard to forgive ourselves and we may read that in Christ there is no condemnation from God but we condemn ourselves what we're gonna talk about that today we're going to talk about some other aspects of forgiveness what do we do when someone we love very close to us hurts us in a very profound way and we're gonna do this through an unusual format an interview I brought a couple of friends of mine here I've been friends for a long time Brad and Heidi Mitchell they have a ministry called build your marriage they speak all around the country at conferences and seminars and brad has been pastor of churches in Minnesota and in Michigan and South Carolina when I was at Willow Creek Community Church under Bill Hybels he was ahead of our men's ministry in prayer ministry and sports ministry and they've been married for 34 years they have three grown children son and two daughters and there they've agreed to come today to talk about some very personal matters and I said why are you willing to do that they said it's for you because their prayer is as something in the tragedy that propelled them in their life might speak to you regardless of where you're coming from today so it's with that heart that they're here to serve us so I'd like to introduce you to my friends Brad and Heidi Mitchell line up Brad and Heidi [Applause] it's a long walk over here is it music or something so thanks guys for being with us have a seat well we've been getting together they came in on Friday and so we had some time together and went out to dinner with Leslie and on Friday night we were talking about how we all met I mean how we met our spouses and I used to think that well less than I've met when we were really young you know we were 14 years old and as love at first sight and unless they went home and told her mom I met the boy I'm gonna marry and I thought that was young but how old were you guys when you first met of man I was nine and Brad was 11 9 and 11 okay now that's early it wasn't love at first sight oh no fact Heidi she lived in North Dakota and our family had moved around a lot and one of the places where we had moved to was Bismarck and my sister and Heidi became best friends right away and our parents became really close so she was our house a lot but for me she was hideous Heidi like water and oil didn't mix and she didn't care too much for me but then times change you move to Indiana and you came to visit her sister your friend and all of a sudden you saw each other not with fresh eyes he was now shaving he had sideburns really different and I was kind of impressed well she had this Farrah Fawcett hairstyle going to and so I was like oh that's cute I like that so get this this is hilarious by the end of that weekend what had happened oh man well first of all I kissed her on the first day which I'm not like you know don't tell our children but then beyond that what you should tell the rest good we just kind of kept meeting in the hallway of his parents house and you know we would talk and catch a little kiss at all this and by the end of the weekend he said what are your plans for our future and I thought well this was kind of like you know he shouldn't be asking me he should be saying what our plans are and I said well I don't know I said what are your plans for our future and he said I would love to marry you and spend the rest of my life with you and I thought well I'm only 14 years old but I've always wanted to get married and I could be engaged without my dad knowing that I'm dating so I thought this is a good thing sure so you're too young to date but you're engaged you're mine it's like yeah we're gonna do this I saw a good thing so I wanted to sew it up right now yeah my weight right so you decided that you would do Bible studies when you went back to North Dakota over the phone together and that you would go to the same Christian College which you ended up doing we're in college and sure enough you graduated and and you were still in school you got married and the hope was that you would go on and make a lot of money as a lawyer or something yeah didn't work no what happened no it's interesting when I mean all the marriage part happened but while I was at school I was touring with a singing group from Wheaton and we were in Europe and we're in a lot of filled cathedrals but some places we went to that were very empty in fact one of them was in Lyon France and that one there were more of us singing than there were present and I just sensed kind of this impression from God that you know these cathedrals were once teeming with people that were coming to worship and now they were almost empty and the church in America was just probably a couple generations away from the same thing and that my calling was to do everything I could to really build and grow the church in the United States and you know you don't know if that's a bad croissant you know the GA and you're having a bad feeling or something and so I you know I bounced it off people and over time it just continued to be confirmed that my calling was to go into to pastoral ministry so you went to seminary you got your Master of Divinity degree you became you did an internship and then you were a pastor of a church in Minnesota which was not a large Church when you got there no in fact it okay so it had I mean I know here woodlands and we love this church and we love your pastor and his wife and you know just a phenomenal team but you all started with like eight people and we started with six families in Minnesota that's all we had to start off with in fact the Sunday before we started it was the guy who spoke his wife there are three kids and the lady they hired to play the piano that was it that was it that's Church okay great well god bless the ministry it grew you later came to Willow Creek Church serve there and then were lured away to go to Michigan to serve at a church and then that was a incredible ministry there and things were blossoming God was blessing people are coming to faith people are growing and getting into groups small groups and so forth and then you went to South Carolina to another opportunity another terrific church so you're kind of climbing that pastoral ladder with more influential churches but when you left the church in Michigan in your mind you were probably not in the best place it's that accurate to say the least it had been a like you said I mean a lot of good things were happening and all of the growth charts and things were positive and up into the right you know everything that you'd look for for like things to be healthy and yet there was a lot of tension behind the scenes for myself with some of the key leadership and such and just in directional things philosophy of ministry kinds of issues things that we measured as far as what was health or not health or things and and I became very angry and my heart I became very bitter I felt unappreciated very prideful defensive and so you know when I left it wasn't it wasn't a spirit of you know really sensing like the Holy Spirit was moving me on it was a spirit of I'll show them and and I released me I think from that role I can't say that the Holy Spirit released me I always the one who let me go and so there was a lot that was just junkie in my heart when I left so you get to South Carolina you're not really in a great place emotionally from this experience you're feeling underappreciated a bit and so forth and you made a decision in terms of the lifestyle that this was you were being kind of forced into because the housing market was terrible in Michigan crank couldn't sell your house if you wanted to so tell us about what you decided to do well one thing that complicated our life at that point is that our middle child was gonna be a senior in high school and so when we looked into what was what I was gonna require of her to graduate from high school with the graduation requirements in South Carolina was much more difficult than what they were in Michigan so we made we prayed about it we made the decision that he would move to South Carolina and I would stay back in Michigan with the girls which it sounded great but it ended up being much more difficult than either of us anticipated I was basically functioning like a single parent to some degree I mean I still had his income I still had his emotional support but in the day-to-day I was just you know broken pipes and all that kind of thing just doing it myself and running the girls to different activities and it just it just wasn't as easy as we had thought it would be so you were coming home to Michigan what was it one week a month right and the rest of the time you're in South Carolina of course the church is going great you're on the beach right right beautiful in Myrtle Beach right and you're in Michigan with the kids and things and things were not ideal now and that led to another development Brad what what what happened that was a turning point well as I had said I had a lot of pride in my life and even though I had transitioned to a church that from all you know it really was a tremendous place in South Carolina great staff a lot of good ministry he's so much to be grateful for that God I felt like you know really kind of provided even with my anger and the way I've gone into it I made the choice to I made the choice to commit adultery and to be unfaithful to hiding and I had allowed so much wrong thinking to settle in my mind that had preceded all of this that there had been you know the pride and the deception of my thinking the sense of entitlement that was present in my heart that you know it led down the series of me making choices that I fully have to own when you say sense of entitlement what do you mean well sort of not being appreciated well here was somebody who appreciated me here's somebody who said a lot of nice things about me and just sort of the sirens song of you know feeling sort of lured in to a relationship because I liked what I was hearing mmm so you know nothing about this no you're a Michigan heart you know everything's going as well as it could go despite the distance yeah and I had no reason I mean my husband was a pastor he was a ministry he I thought we had a good relationship he was the last person I ever expected to do this it was just out of the blue and I was completely shocked I was devastated I just you know all of a sudden you just have all these emotions like what am I gonna do my world has just crashed and what's gonna happen to us what's gonna happen to our children it was just I mean I got sick I was vomiting and it was it was just I never expected it so that at that time when you were exposed and and the truth came out and you confessed this to Heidi what did you think was going to happen well I had I had talked to a counselor I got ahold of a counselor right away and talked to a counselor before I talked to Heidi and and he said you know pack your suitcase have it in the car be ready because once you tell her what you need to do she's probably gonna have your leaf and so I was you know ready to go as far as having everything packed and in the car and I still remember kind of like yesterday unable to really even stand when I talked to her and dropping to my knees next to our bed she was on the other side of the bed and telling her what I had done mmm what's been the most difficult moment of your life it was for me but I mean you consider what she was hearing you know even more so so in the midst of this you know there are repercussions when when sin happens there's a ripple effect it affects family it affects children it affects in-laws it affects everything but if a guy who works at crow verse commits adultery he probably doesn't lose his job you're a pastor you had to face the consequences of of this sin tell us about that well God's not gonna be mocked and I had been living the life of a hypocrite and so rightfully so God exposed the sin and so for me the right thing obviously that had to take place and transpire it was to lose my job and I will say this a couple of things first of all some of you in this room you've been in churches where a pastor's done that and you've been wounded and you've been hurt and it may have really caused your spiritual trajectory to waver some when you've thought about Jesus Christ and a couple of things first of all just know that Jesus didn't fail you it was a person who failed you Jesus did not fail you it was a person and secondly do not take for granted what you have here with Kerry and Chris they are amazing their love for each other and their love for you is tremendous and you know just continue to just pour blessing upon them and who they are but for me I had to fully own what I had done and I love the leaders of that church to this day the church we were in but what they didn't do was like sweep it under the rug and say well let's just kind of try and keep things quiet we'll get you guys in counseling but you can keep your job or something like that they didn't do that they rightfully treated sin as it was and needed to they wanted me to like write a statement that they would then read to the congregation and probably the one right thing I was thinking at the time was the importance of me actually reading my statement to the church and so on Sunday morning that next Sunday morning I didn't teach I showed up toward the end of the service and Heidi was back at the house and I stood in front of the congregation and they handled it great they let all the guests go they let all the kids go and it was just the people who were regulars but I stood on that stage and it was just me and the lights and it's kind of like this story of Aitkin if you've ever read that in the Bible and I just told people what I had done because they needed to hear it from me so there wasn't any question you know people wondering did Brad really say that did Brett really right that you know what I mean they needed here from me because I wanted to be sure the church was secure and okay and also I needed to say it I needed to own up to it I had to step up and fully take responsibility for what my choices were you said something me about I did a chapter of my book the case for grace about their story and and in that you said you the degree to which you fully own what you did is a degree to which God's grace can cover it that's right basically so you felt I had to get it all out and you wanted to hear it all I mean not every woman at a situation wants the details but you did because you wanted to know what you were gonna be asked to forgive him for yeah and our life at that point was just in such a bad spot we had you know we were homeless me to move in with an older couple for several months we ended up living with them for ten months we had a daughter that was in eighth grade who had to also move into that house and it was just kind of a perfect storm and so with everything kind of cascading down on us and the consequences just kind of came like waves there just be one wave and then another wave and then another wave I just got to the point where it was like I'm done with ways I just you know tell me everything just kind of quit hurt it I just wanted to quit having something else that would hurt me so I was like just tell me let's just go to the basement of this house and like you know and then if possible I didn't even know if it was possible we'll rebuild but let's just get it all out get it start from bottom start exactly and you so as you say you had nothing basically you've lost your job how many times did you give blood sell your own blood just survive I sold plasma a hundred and ten times just to try to make ends meet what we lost 90% of our income as Heidi said we were living with another couple for ten months during this time I ended up eventually getting a job just so I could have health care I got a job selling airtime for a local TV station and and I wasn't good at it I in fact some weeks I didn't make enough to pay for the gas to drive around the different appointments and things were tight and you know in the middle of sin you know we might think that we understand some of the consequences and some of the we're gonna face but we have no idea really like you said the word cascading was right I mean there are so many consequences that we don't even imagine we think we know them all but there's so many more that take place yeah you know and and we hit them so Heidi the issue of forgiveness comes up as a Christian it's a strong Christian what was your what did you think the next step would be for you in terms of the issue of forgiveness well first of all I was very angry at him and I just thought how could you do this you know we've worked so hard with God's help to Britain to build a life and to just be in ministry and just everything raise a family and so I was just absolutely furious at him like how could you trash this but right away even despite the anger I just thought I know I have to forgive him even if we never get back together as an act of obedience to God forgiveness is not optional in I knew the Bible well of us to know that as Christians we're not allowed to pick and choose and God's Word just says you know you are to forgive and he doesn't say you can forgive in this circumstance but not in this circumstance or you can forgive this but this sends to great know Jesus and His Word says you are to forgive unconditionally even if the person never asks for your forgiveness you still have to forgive um and so I just from day one I that was my mentality my feelings weren't there because I was so angry and I was just so hurt but I just said you know dear God I know I have to forgive Brad and you have got to give me the strength to do this and just the ability to overcome my emotions and to begin to walk the path of forgiveness to him you were afraid of bitterness taking root in your life if he did I oftentimes they would picture somebody like this is kind of weird but like a person standing there myself and then for every time that I wanted to hold on to something I put a sticky note like on myself and you know those yellow sticky notes and just be covered that's what I kind of pictured in my mind and I was like I don't want to look like that I don't want to become hardened I don't want to affect my relationship in a negative way with Jesus Christ and so I just worked really hard at pulling those sticky notes off in my you know in the vision and just having a clear conscience before God and so I just I you know I had to retrain my mind and how I thought so that I didn't become bitter did you as you out of a step of obedience forgave him did the feelings then come not initially but over time a little bit more a little bit more and over time yes the feelings eventually did did catch up to my step of obedience and I was able to completely forgive him Brad what about forgiving yourself I mean how do you get to the place where you get beyond being weighted down by a sense of shame over what happened yeah forgiving yourself can sound almost backward it's almost like why should I have to forgive myself kind of a thing but it really is a step to take because because we can become so angry at ourselves and so filled as you said with shame over what we've done we can't believe that we said what we did or did what we did or you know and and in this room you know there have to be people who've been in the seams not the same story but where we've done things in our past that were like I can't believe I did that and and quite frankly shame keeps you so shackled to the past and it really becomes sort of your identifier for you know what you did becomes who you are and who you see yourself to be and so part of it for me the first step was just acknowledging what I know to be true not what I feel kind of like what you did with forgiving me but what I know to be true like in the Bible that says if we confess our sins he's faithful and just to forgive us of our sins and purify us of all unrighteousness and I had to come to the place of kind of appropriating that personally and recognizing that okay if I've confessed what I've done and I've repented of what I've done then Jesus has forgiven me he has cleansed me he has washed me with his shed blood from what I've done it any degree where I haven't forgiven myself I'm basically saying that the cross wasn't enough that Jesus wasn't enough that you know what's written in there as a lie it really isn't fully true so not feeling it but acknowledging it and knowing and starting to live in it was very important I like this quote by Sheila Walsh she said guilt is I've done something wrong shame is I am something wrong and I think often what Satan tries to do is he tries to keep us locked in shame and guilt and find our identity and what we've done in the past instead of finding our identity and who Jesus says that we are he says that we're forgiven that verse that you read earlier there is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus is true it is true for every person here whether or not you choose to believe it it's still true when you've placed your faith and trust in Jesus as your leader and forgiver that became truth all of the stuff that you may still be holding against yourself and not forgiving yourself from you need to know Jesus has forgiven that it is washed under his blood it is gone God doesn't see you as the person who committed that sin he sees you as free and forgiving and so for me I I had and it wasn't a once and done I had to over a period of months continue to deal with that and every time shame came up initially it was with our counselor I had to talk to him and I said you know what do I do with this and he said Brad he said every time you feel shame it is not from God you need to know that the shame you experience is from the enemy and you need to reject that and renounce that and so for me what I did was I just started renouncing it and I would say Satan you know once I felt shame I would say Satan then the name and the power of the blood of Jesus and by the power of his resurrection I renounced that that is not who I am that's what I did but that is not who I am and over time as I made those verbal declarations I experienced freedom from that guilt and from that shame it's still part of our story we still there's still scars there's no way I can erase that but Who I am is Who I am in Jesus it's not what I've done yeah so when the Holy Spirit convicts us of our sin and we feel remorse and regret his intent is to bring us through repentance to bring us back into the fold in a sense and to a closer relationship with God shame is designed to drive us away right and to isolate us right is this something you still struggle with less and less but I still do I mean Satan still uses the same tricks he's not original and what he does and so there are times still that like maybe before I get up to speak at church or before we're gonna do a conference or such there will be times when it'll start to creep up and again I deal with it the same way it's the same weapons that God's given to us to deal with it and and God's peace comes to bear there's forgiveness that I know has already been present that I just live in and I have to realize that my power and my strength is not Brad's power and Brad's strength it's the presence of Jesus Christ in me it's the presence of the Holy Spirit in me it's the truth of God's Word that I'm speaking which is where the power is and for every person in this room you may have voices just running through your head going well that's good for you you know you're up there talking to Lee but that couldn't be true for me yes it is God wants you to have freedom he wants to experience his freedom he wants you to know forgiveness he wants you to know that cleansing he wants you to know the freedom from shame he wants you to know the hope Heidi and I are up here simply to let you know that there is hope for every single person in this room through Jesus Christ what about Heidi your own relationship with God how has it changed through this process well in the beginning when Brad you know confessed to me I realized I thought a lot about the cross and what Jesus endured for my sins because I'm not perfect and I make mistakes maybe they didn't have the consequences maybe my sins didn't have the consequences for our family that his dead but I still a sinner I'm still a sinner I still made mistakes so I just thought about the cross and how Jesus went to the cross for me and He shed his blood and he endured a ton of pain for me and I thought I've got to forgive Brad because even though I'm hurting it doesn't compare to what Jesus did on the cross so that was my first step and then I just began to walk in obedience of forgiveness and then I've seen God just you know restore our marriage we started right away to go to a Christian counselor and he worked with Brad alone and then he worked with us together and one of the things I had to learn was to retrain my mind because Satan would still you know attack me you haven't really forgiven him you should bring this up again you should talk to him about this and I just had to come to the point where I just decided if I'm gonna talk to him about it it has to be to learn or it has to be a way that we can avoid a bad pattern in our marriage I couldn't just talk to him to kind of shame him because that's of the enemy and so I really had to you know I knew my heart when I was bringing up things was it really to learn was it really to understand or was it to remind him and play the holy spirit which you know so I learned a lot about just controlling my mind my thought life and there was never a time in my life where I grew closer to the Lord then during that season I mean people hear these stories all the time and I'd hurt him and I don't know if I really believed him but I do now I would pray and I'm just like God we need you know we need some money we need help and I would literally go to the post-office box and open our box and there would be a check from a friend for just the right amount we needed or I was encouraged by other believers we had some godly friends who they without other people knowing they flew down to South Carolina they took us to dinner and one of these men one night just sat across the table from us at dinner and said I want you to know 25 years ago I committed the same sin that Brad did to my wife and I just looked at him because he was such a godly man he'd been a leader in one of our former churches and I just in a weird way it was encouraging to me because I'm like they're still together they made it and it it planted that seed of hope that God could restore us if that's what what Brad wanted so Heidi's going through this process it takes time and you're probably ready to move on at some point talk to us about it must require patience on your part to deal with the this in a thorough way yeah you know I think one of the things that's a mark of repentance or remorse is the importance of being patient with another person's healing it's so easy for the person who's the perpetrator to wish the other person would just get over it and we've heard other couples that have been on our journey and you know the person who's committed adultery specifically would be like why don't they just get over it why don't they just forgive me why do they have to keep talking about why don't they move on you know I moved on well of course you moved on you're the perpetrator you know I mean but but they don't have the grace toward their spouse to walk through it like they need to and for Heidi she needed to walk through it and she did it very I mean she was very mindful not to shame me really careful about that but she needed to talk about the details and go through all of it you want to know what you were forgiving you wanted to details she did and I needed to be patient with that and I was done talking about a long time ago but she wasn't and so for me it was important to be engaging in her healing and to provide whatever she needed and I really do believe you know in Hebrews 12 it talks about how God disciplines us you know for our good and to bring us into a place of holiness and righteousness and peace and healing and part of God's discipline of us are the consequences that we have to face and part of my consequence was Heidi's process of healing part of our consequence was you know the financial situation or in part of our consequence were relationships that got you know broken or disoriented and so you know all of those things were things that you can either pull away from or you can lean into not to beat yourself up but you lean into and accept them and walk in them and I really you know scripturally it's true that God does those things so that he can reform our character into a right relationship with him and we can experience the peace and the freedom he wants for us and that's something I can say definitively we've experienced yeah it's it's encouraging - you talked early about hope there is hope there regardless of what sin you've fallen into there is hope there is redemption there is reconciliation and and rescue in a sense from that and to watch how God has put your marriage back together in such a powerful way I mean when I was in kindergarten I broke my arm pretty severely and the bones kind of went like this and so I had surgery and they they put it back together and and and now at that point where there's but broken because of the break and and the surgery it's stronger now than it was before broke and I see your marriage as being more vibrant and and stronger today than even it was before this it is and that's a that's a blessing that's a sign of God's grace what would you say to someone yes and ramping up who may be going through something in their life maybe not this exact thing but where the repercussions are rocking their world I'd say do the next right thing take that step and just do whatever you know think right and do right every next step I know for us that's we took and there's been so much restoration our children are walking with the Lord they all love the Lord we got into Christian counseling and had a great counselor who walked us through that we love each other more our counselor told us he said he said basically what you said he said you'll have a stronger marriage and I just looked at him and thought there is no way after this that we'll have a stronger marriage but God is good he is faithful and he has he has made our marriage stronger we've had to learn some new things we had to learn new ways to communicate new ways to handle conflict and but it's been good it strengthened us and our counselor and I would say to those of you who are struggling some of you may be your worlds right now is rocking and you weren't even sure if you should show up at church today and now you're glad you have or maybe this is preventative medicine for some time down the road but I would just say as you're walking through what may be very painful journey where you can't see your way through just remember you know very clearly that God walks with you through the valley of the shadow of death Psalm 23 you know you are not alone you do not have to be afraid you may not know you know what's coming further down but as Heidi said you know you take the next the next step in the next step and you hold on to Jesus you hold on to scripture you gather around you godly people who are going to encourage you in your faith find somebody who's going to pray with you I mean sticking around with your friends who are gonna pull you in different directions away from Jesus Christ is not what you need what you need are people who are gonna ground you and root you in a community of love and and strength and we experience we experience the local church being the local church yeah we experience the body of Christ being out church should be I thought that people are gonna reject me and shame me and you know and such it couldn't been further from the truth Satan would have wanted me to think that and to live in shame and such but what I experienced was the love of Jesus Christ through Jesus people and that was a huge part of our healing yeah that's what the church is about and now God has not only restored their marriage but I remember you telling me once that your counselor said at one point that someday you'll talk about this publicly and you said there is no way I'm ever gonna do that and look what God has done he's created this ministry build your marriage they travel around the country helping couples away have brochures at the counter if you want to pick up some information about that ministry or their website is build your mint marriage build your marriage org and and God restored Brad to the pastor it and he's now pastor of a terrific church in in Ohio so it's just a so encouraging to see how God has brought this full circle not only restored you but now to work through you to minister to others so let's thank bread and Heidi for their willingness to be with us today let me pray for us and also for them in their ministry and their family father thank you for the truths that came out during this interview sometimes we learn much more from people who've walked down some wrong roads and and suffered the consequences and point us in the right direction say don't go this way don't go this way and for those of us who have for those of us who have gone down roads we never should have gone down a reminder there is healing there is forgiveness there is grace there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus so we thank you that each one of us regardless of where we're at can walk away encouraged today and hopeful today and I pray for a blessing on Brad and Heidi and their children and their ministry and their church thank you that they can be a shining example of how you are a restorer of people how you even when we've walked the other way or failed that you gather us back you love us and you release us to do ministry to others thank you for that and we pray that through the next years many more thousands of people will benefit from Brad and Heidi's ministry we pray this in Jesus name and all God's people said amen

Channel: Woodlands Church with Kerry Shook

Views: 17,080

Rating: 4.8110237 out of 5

Keywords: woodlands, church, kerry, shook, chris, christian, god, faith, bible, tbn, daystar, joel, osteen, rick, warren, jesus, hope, ministries, pastor, lee, strobel, mad, yourself, anger, management, marriage, divorce

Id: Kx7AXYS4px0

Length: 38min 11sec (2291 seconds)

Published: Mon Oct 30 2017