Leaving an LGBTQ Identity for Christ | Kim Zember

today okay buckle up guys today is one of the most powerful conversations I've ever had in my life and no joke I got choked up cried multiple times in the course of this conversation um today we dive into the issue of samex attraction is there a difference between same-sex attraction and action is someone's attraction their identity if you hold what the church teaches about how we should act with our bodies and about the definitions of marriage does that make you hateful bigoted and mean is it possible to have a same sex attraction and not act on those attractions sexually and yet live a fulfilling life do I have your attention yet oh and one more question do you want to support this work and be entered for a chance to win a trip for two on a pilgrimage to Italy this June if so become a missionary Joy before February 2024 and you're entered to win a chance uh at at at getting that prize link is in the show notes and on real life catholic.com become a missionary Joy real catholic.com OJ but back to the topic at hand I'm going to talk to someone today who not just theorizing but from lived experience through pain through Joy through Falls and through incredible victories uh can answer every one of the questions that I just brought up now if you watch this show with your kids every week this one is not for them this conversation gets very very real today on the christop phanic show so again buckle up literally one of the most powerful conversations I've ever had and uh I want you to watch it like subscribe and don't be afraid to share this one the world needs to hear it Hallelujah amen thank you thanks for being with me yeah and thank you for uh sitting here with me willing to make everybody uncomfortable on all sides uh because the the one side looks at people who struggle with samees seex attraction and and have a hard time even accepting the fact that some people now the world would say everyone who acts that way is born that way and has no choice so the response will be to just hunker down right and just deny that reality at all now there's no Gene found that proves people are born that way but for the lived experience of some people it might as well be I don't know I just it feels like I was born this way right yeah um the other side when people have that attraction persistent through life and actually follow Jesus then there's many ways to follow it but one of those ways in in Chastity and in purity of Life they just can't stand you because they don't know what to do with you and you break the entire narrative M um so there there's a prophetic presence sitting here in front of me and I'm moved by it and I feel that and I'm just I thank God for the grace that he's put on your life and and I'm grateful for you just being that voice of Courage does that choke you up to hear that it does yeah yeah it chokes me up to say it because there's so much pain in this area amen God can turn anything around there's like I think sometimes I even wonder we're jumping right had tears within 30 seconds of an interview beginning oh wow anyway go ahead please I was just going to say like I'm not crying out of it's like a mix of a lot of different things um but just to hear you say that is not like looking for the praise of man but it actually just from my own heart like really does show that God can do anything like he can make something that looks like it is a dead end it is the pit no turning around and he if you just surrender like he can bring such beauty from ashes I mean it's it's his word but to like experience it in your own life and then see it in other people's life it's just a inspiring the word becomes flesh ah Hallelujah and and when the word becomes flesh ow yeah right yeah like like there's this not rainbow and lollipops no no there's this undying love with truth that doesn't compromise with the world the church is is constantly like where do I fit in that Spectrum do I just do we just bless get couples pretend everything's fine or do we just uh become frigid and the Lord's like no you stay right here yeah on the cross with me where it's really painful and then thank you Jesus but I see that in you is like there's um you you this is where where Saints are made you know so I really think people who experienced that attraction and and are following the Lord the best they can um dude there's some serious Saints being made right now so I'm I'm excited for your can't canonize you ahead of time but we'll see where the story ends we're all amen okay so deep breath let's start at the beginning thanks for not getting tissue too that was where are the tissues we don't need it we don't need a tissue we got the tears out good awesome yes when did you first experience uh the thought I'm not like other girls uh probably pretty soon when I had thoughts to be honest I grew up with two older brothers um and so for me I just never really felt like the other girls a lot of like the friends that I was around I don't have tons of memories from like my super younger like kindergarten through second grade okay memories really started when I was in third grade and that's when I got put into private Catholic School um anything before that I just remember always playing with the boys kickball whatever that felt totally normal I think when the class size got smaller and the girls were just more like girly I'm like man I just don't like all the things that they um but I didn't I didn't think I was a boy like if Chris if I was growing up now I don't I'd be scared for where I would be for one I think people around me would be saying you're supposed to be a boy maybe you you know you yeah and that questioning but but for me growing up I never thought that I actually thought the girls were just kind of weird and they didn't just catch on to what girls were supposed to be like which was more like me which sound super arrogant but I I just I enjoyed what my brothers enjoyed and and that felt more natural for me but I don't think that was weird I mean it's what I grew up around it wasn't until I started to realize a difference more I would say towards like sexual attraction or just attraction in general um was going into probably like Junior High where my friends all started to like have these crushes on boys and I'm like they're like my best friends like no they're like brothers you know um so I didn't didn't feel a lot of those attractions that I saw my friend starting to feel and experience and so so that's when I was like okay something's a little weird I was like but again I thought they were a little weird cuz I'm like you're not going to marry these guys anyways like let's be real just enjoy them for who they are and whatnot um High School is where it really started to shift CU now dating got serious and whatnot and they just weren't there's just nothing you just weren't interested I mean I found I found guys attractive yeah um I also would see an attractive dog and be like that's a good-looking dog that doesn't mean you want to be with the dog right I don't mean that like you know but there's you can see beauty recognize Beauty so I could recognize a guy and be like oh he's a good-look dude right um he's in good shape or he's got a good looking face but I didn't have that like oh my gosh I want to be with him and I hope we get married one day I did you feel that toward toward women so I don't when I looked when I saw women when I was in high school it was more like like reflecting back I think it was more like I saw attributes in them that I didn't see in myself and so I was more drawn to it I wanted more nurture from women and I wanted to nurture it was more of an emotional thing than a physical thing it wasn't like oh my gosh I saw this woman and I'm like this is totally sexualized not at all it didn't start that way it became that but it did not start that way um I say this as like a little caveat my dad gave me the sex talk which like Amen to dad's trying to step in but it went something along I would never ever ever ever try to get the sex talk to my do at least have your wife give it to you first and then probably share it but my dad's went something along the line God bless him I love him I'm so thankful for him but it went along the lines of all men are dogs uh and they want one thing from you and I'm like oh my gosh and he's like oh wait hold on I I was incorrect all men are dogs in heat and they want one thing for you oh man yeah and so this is coming from my dad who I love and I respect and so I I don't mean to be like but I do believe that that had some sort of effect on me don't blame my dad but there was this kind of fear over men I wasn't afraid of them CU I had them as brothers but there was like a safety line if I kept them as friends then I wouldn't be used I wouldn't be taken advantage of and that was really never unpacked and so I look back in my whole life and a lot of fear was a driving kind of fuel for me you know there's there's there's family experiences there's cultural formation these things are so much more powerful than we believe oh yeah right that I think it's one of the reasons why even though there's never been any Gene found that that people say well you can be born this way or not because it's it's an unconscious formation sometimes absolutely um which is nurture nature the way you're raised up and my dad meant good I mean he's looking at his little daughter his only girl you know and he's protection protection you know and so instilling fear around men into that relational thing will keep me safe right and I think sometimes we do that in church I won't unpack all that but I think we can use fear as the motivator to PE keep people away instead of if a chassis talks based on fear That's not healthy it's not um but there's the when we look at the stats and the increasing number of kids who experience same sex attraction and then act on it or become transgendered um and the cultural factors you know my my wife's cousin was sending her kid to school in La 9 years old they had all the kids sit around in a circle and announce their their gender and their sexual orientation at nine at nine: it this before puberty like you know and this little girl that gets to her she's like I don't know I guess I'm a straight girl all the girls said oh no you have to be bisexual no one's straight anymore and the the cult and and then some of these kids are going to end up being gay and think I was born that way because the the powerful impact of that our words have impact oh my gosh it's mighty which is one reason conservative I hate saying that conservative Christians because it sounds political but now get so AF afraid yeah uh because it's just like I want to cover my kid's ears and and you know if my kid ends up same sex attracted I love my kid but I don't want to precondition things in that direction how did you experience the culture at large as you as you maybe had some some you know some aspects of yourself that maybe could have gone both directions I have no idea um what was impacting you culturally that said go ahead and try this route experiment see what happens yeah so in high school it was not popular it was not common to be gay it was not a good thing quote unquote right like this was as nowadays SW manast oh for sure um so it probably wasn't where it way used to be but it was somewhere in the middle um but I would say I never felt like it was something that was celebrated now again growing up Catholic for me I always correlated homosexuality with sin and with hell that was like boom boom boom like those three words homosexual sin hell um with without a lot of unpacking of what that might look like right and so for me and one of my family members came out when I was in high school um and that was really traumatic as well wow um for me and I remember a lot of the turmoil that happened in my family nobody disowned her or pushed her out but it created a lot of waves and and saw this separation start to happen and and just a lot and a lot of people's feelings getting hurt and so for me within my family and my church Circle it was like okay this is not good this causes problems right W and then now outside Katie Perry had come out with a song she's going to call me one day just kissed a girl and I liked it and this is in a a season for me my senior year in high school where yeah I had a boyfriend and he tried to kind of go faster than I was willing and so I was like you know what back to the friend thing confirmed your dad's uh warnings boyfriend after boyfriend I stopped at two of them and I was like you know what but see just stopping a relationship doesn't fill the void God says it's not good that man be alone so how is that filled and so for me now I had this close friend in high school so it didn't start off sexual but I have this close friend you know hearing the song I Kissed a Girl and I liked it I'm like I look at my one of my best friends was pregnant the other ones are getting high they're drinking they're doing all this I'm like what's the big deal if I kiss a girl I mean Mutual right like this is not I'm not going to force myself I'm not just going to like this is mutual what's the big deal and I'm telling you I think the world was kind of shifting into that place of no big deal it's it's okay you know kind of lukewarm with it and then um yeah I think I I do believe if somebody stopped me in that moment and did Kim if you do this if you act on this desire it's going to change your whole life I would have been like are you kidding me my friend's pregnant my other friend's High everybody's drunk like my whole grid for Christianity it's it's very sad but praise God he sticks with us through all the things we think he is but was just stay under the radar of everybody else's sin so I saw like kissing a girl was less than everything else going around me moralistic rather than relational well it was a cop not a father yeah who yeah right so if you have this cop perception of God get away with something I mean think about it I get on the freeway it says it says 75 but if somebody's going 80 if I just stay under them I won't get pulled over it's true right usually you know so that was my mentality and it's very sad and I'm not saying that's what my family raised me in but again this kind of just fear don't get pulled over don't get in trouble not the goodness of God and so I think the world was in a weird place at least from my perspective and um so I just kind of had this yeah I know it's wrong but it's not as bad as what everybody else is doing a a lot of people think experimentation will help you discover who you are right but this isn't just Christian U moral teaching and this is this goes back to the Greeks like your your activity forges Who You Are right uh so how did the experimentation oh it forged how did it for Forge how did you experience that forg well now I experience something that I enjoyed I thought I might like it now I experienced it I did like it and I'm telling you you could think and and some people get upset with me and I mean no disrespect in this I struggle with samesex attraction so I'm not coming at anybody in this but you you could think you like a brownie until you try it you're not going to actually crave it yeah if you liked it you're going to now crave it so now I had I had experienced something that I liked I also experienced and this is important to hear I experienced a kiss and having it sto there when I was with guys I experienced a kiss and it had to go further now I'm not saying that over every man no I hear you but in in high school that's where it was for me and so there was a safety as crazy as it might sound being with a woman almost felt safer The Vices of men was part of your formation I mean honestly yeah right right it's not not just these cultural things or I kissed a girl and I liked it it's it's wow yeah um so where did things go from there for you did when did you um given your upbringing given how you're thinking of homosexuality equals sin equals hell did you did you experience Terror in in about yourself T inside Absolut torment was like because I knew I was again not like all the other girls right there was something that was like okay I'm not like all of them I didn't think that was necessarily a bad thing now I experience this with another girl I like it I feel safe with it it feels like it's filling a void within me it feels natural as strange as that might sound to hear it felt natural to me more than with men and it wasn't sexualized it was like oh my gosh this is my best friend and now we're even closer like it was just another level of intimacy but the problem is from that moment on everything changed our friendship changed I actually lost that friendship m um and something within me now I started to see women a little bit different not every woman yeah not every woman um even my friends I never had an attraction to my actual friends I could recognize Beauty but for me I was now torn inside because the truth of what I was feeling didn't line up of what I knew was true wow okay this isn't relative I knew and this is not just cuz I was raised this way I really truly believe it my family raised me in a lot of things that I rejected yeah I really believed that God created man for woman and woman for man that does not mean everybody has to get married but I did not believe it was his plan for wom and women to be together in that way so the fact that I had this desire I acted on it I liked it it felt natural but it didn't align with what I knew to be true was an incredible wrestle doesn't even deter doesn't even Define it what did you I want to Circle back again deep level like for what people need from the church in general um but in that moment as a teenage girl what would have helped from your church from your parents what could have maybe set your whole life in a different direction in that time yeah I want to preface it it's so important the church has a very important role in all of this and so does the family but I don't blame it I I just I want to be clear because I I did know but what would have been incredibly helpful and probably shifted a direction would have not just the church been saying homosexual ities of sin people who choose sin and choose this lifestyle it's not like just stealing a pack of gum it's a lifestyle you're going to live yeah and Eternity will look like hell I mean that right there that'll scare the you know what out of someone right usually or you'll reject God and just you know go do what you want to do you're going take one route or the other yeah and but for me I think what would have been helpful is and if you feel those desires if that feels natural to you we're here for you it doesn't just mean now you're going to live a celibate life and you'll be happy promise I'm married with kids but you'll be happy single you know I mean like and you know what else is helpful seeing people that have vows of celibacy that live full and joyful lives I didn't meet any of them my my only representation that I was like aware of was Mother Teresa God bless her Saint Mother Teresa now right so thankful but I didn't want to be her at 17 years old right right and so for me the church would tell me it's sin but what do you do if you experience it and and who is there anybody else am I the only one in the church and when you feel isolated man to Satan get to you that is like I mean right the the separated sheep and so I think as a church we need to this needs to be a normal conversation we I pray to God that disclaimers don't need to happen anymore before every interview I right like why we talk about pornography we talk about all this stuff homosexuality is a real thing that people it's not a it's not a problem it's a person that's struggling with something it's not an agenda yes there's agendas right but I'm talking about a person like me who struggles with this I didn't choose it I wasn't sexually abused I actually prayed against it I prayed all the time Chris God take this away I don't know I was like God did I get abused did something happen to me was I too close with my cousin who was in the life so what's happening and I know that to some might sound like homophobia as a young kid I didn't know right and so I'm like whatever it is God just take it if that's not your way then take it from me and when when God doesn't do that and then the church isn't really helping you put language and navigate you're just kind of left to do it on your own and so I went internal I just I felt like if I would have opened up to my family yeah I would have been corrected or redirected see sometimes as a church or even as Christians we can be really good at fixing people's problems but not bearing them parents too right I mean it's just a natural default of parents want to fix it and I get it because of love you want it you want to fix but the reality is the scripture says as as well right cuz we're meant to help and teach and and form but it also says to bear with one another their burdens and I don't know if we know how to do that no I I'm learning yeah and it is it's the fact that we treat this is so different from any other struggle that people have in some ways it's it's obviously got different characteristics but for sure um but it isolates the but it isolates it pushes it to silence it's like people who just experiencing are caught between this this this culture war two sides right well then I'll jump into the world where I accepted where I can talk about it I don't have shame yeah and and and frankly the the response of you're just going to hell and that's all I know how to tell you and and there not that I've seen a lot of Christians actually do that but that's the brand right right um or their response of um let's just pretend there's nothing wrong with it there actually two sides of the same coin both sides make this a bigger thing than the person is who's just like I don't know I just this isn't me I just got this attraction what I do what do I do well I went to counseling so at 18 years old right I had kissed the girl I'm all torn up inside I'm like I don't know now I don't have this friendship anymore she just wants to be friends but I desire more so on my own I actually went to my priest I said here's what do not tell my family because he knew my family really well I said but I want a counselor and I want a Catholic one I don't want just someone who's going to just tell me whatever like give me someone good that I that like I'll pay him to walk with me yeah how's that is that right at 18 years old out of my own pocket I'm paying $150 an hour right for someone to listen to me and walk with me wow that's not okay that should be church that should be our that should be the the spiritual mothers fathers brothers and sisters around us but anyway so and and maybe they would have been there I didn't I didn't particularly feel that or I would have saved the money um so and go talk to a stranger but sometimes strangers felt better but I wanted truth I didn't want just this relative whatever and so went to this counselor and I I just want to share this because I feel like it's important um because it's into what you're talking about on the two sides absolutely um shared everything with him felt like I could because he doesn't have a tie to anyone so I could just be really vulnerable and after many sessions with him I felt like he gave me the advice to be me that God doesn't make mistakes and think about it Chris this was my gosh it was 18 it was I'm I'm 39 right now so do the math yeah so you were Inc and what what was the translation of of that when as an 18-year-old kid to go ahead and act on this well I wanted to hear that clearly um I wanted to hear and I wanted to believe that when he said what homosexuality is today is not what it was then in the Bible you know this is mutual Kim this is not forceful it was forceful it was more you know a rape and things of that nature and I wanted to believe that because then wow great what feels natural is what God wants but I knew and I believe that was Grace I believe that was Grace I knew that that was not true wow I knew that that was a true and I even stood up to him I said wait a minute so you're telling me the main thing I struggle with I struggle with a lot but the main thing I struggle with right now is the one thing that's off in scripture I was like that sounds super convenient wow and I want to take that route but I don't and so it's just sad to go seek Catholic Council oh yeah and to receive this like come to find out later many many years later when I stopped seeing him his sister was in the lifestyle and in a samesex union and so I just wonder if he had if he was going to share truth with me then would that have to maybe continue out to his family and so I don't know but um yeah that's I think that's often underlying sexually permissive advice not just in this area but in every area I mean we' we've seen we've seen church leaders weaken and how clear they are in things and at the same time scandal after Scandal it's like does am I the only one seeing The Emperor's New Clothes here like an obvious and painful connection it's like triggering you know to see that connection well and it holds people back from fullness life that's the reality like I was seeking truth and I was seeking someone to walk with me and so to just tell me what I wanted to hear it didn't it didn't help it really didn't at all CU I lived that out where did it lead what what what lifestyle did that lead to well I hid for years um so I didn't fully believe what he was telling me I wanted to cuz it kind of fit like I said what I desired um but I was still that wrestle was still happening within um so I would date guys on the Forefront and and fulfill my real desires which was to be with women even if it was just through really close friendship sometimes it went to a little bit more than that um so I was living a double life for sure um I was doing what I thought everybody if I just dated guys people will get off my back why is Kim not with someone why is she not dating you know so dated the guys and and I wanted it to work I was like maybe one of it will work like just throwing darts at the board like maybe one will stick you know throwing it backwards but yeah maybe it'll spin around but um I and I won't get into all of it but God wasn't just looking for me to be heterosexual he's looking for my heart you know and so I'm glad that none of those darts just stuck because it's his ultimate goal for me was not marriage here in this life and so we'll probably unpack that later but anyway so I was I just Sor I just want to Revel in that sentence for a second so because sometimes there's these struggles that people have that are ongoing that don't go away and and they almost lead us to conclude maybe God's abandoned me in this part of my life oh yeah and he's like no no actually if I'm allowing you to lift a weight it's cuz I want your bicep to be massive yeah well my bicep got pretty big like there's some beauty brought out of you that actually emanates from your you came in I told the the C like she looks perfect sitting there a camera but there's this uh a strength and beauty that is not despite the struggles it's precisely because of them you know rains yeah he he wants more than to say I I'll relieve you of this yeah um anyway sorry for that t no no it's true I mean I think through great suffering yeah and struggle and even confusion just just not knowing brings a great strength when when you don't give up on him and yourself because he's not giving up he's not giving up on any one of us none of us are ever too far gone isn't that amazing I mean I don't have love like that no I want that and that's what we need as a church amen you know um to be the older brother that doesn't look at the Young brother who's been you know welcome back home and say he doesn't deserve it he didn't earn it right earn it you didn't either salvation is a free gift to receive or reject why is that so painful for us I mean really like it's it's almost it's almost easier people fall into this default of of a legalistic faith where if I power my way through and control every step of the way that's actually that's that's miserable but it's less painful than saying can I actually receive that much love freedom it's actually humble I've learned this and I'm I'm continuing to it's actually h humility that says I'm going to allow you to love me God I don't deserve it I don't deserve it forgive me for every way that I've failed and I I ask that you give me the grace to be humble to receive a love that I I can't earn and I I can't I don't deserve like I can't earn what he did on the cross amen and so I think really it's like a sneaky Pride when we try to earn deserve and strive because then we're doing it and we didn't says that while we were still Sinners he died for us yes not when you got all your stuff together Kim you know and so I get chills I just love talking about the gospel it is the best thing ever it is wow okay so your the double Lifestyle the double life went so far that you got married I did I I ended up starting a mission in Ethiopia I tried that route too okay I was like maybe if I just go do really good stuff in the world all this other not so good stuff will go away and there was a a level of of reality to that um at 23 I moved to Ethiopia started a whole nonprofit is still operating today it's been 17 years that's incredible taking care of single moms and their children and well there's something good got even in my own weakness always is usually where the best things come even if it come came from like this doesn't feel right but boom but I did ask him I did ask him before I moved to ethiop I said God I don't know what's going on with my life show me my heart and boom this whole thing happened I wrote a book so people could check details out in that real quick Restless Heart my struggle with life and sexuality how do people get it Amazon Sophia Institute Restless life Kim Ember you'll find it yeah you'll find it um all the proceeds go to unforgotten faces too so if everybody but I'm only people who say that like complain I don't really care yes but in that I asked God show me my heart and he reminded me of when I was a kid that I wanted to go to Africa I won't unpack all of that but so I was like hear I was talking to him I was hearing him responding partly and then usually running off like it wasn't a relational it was more like can I should I and if he gave a response I'd go do it you know so it was very rigid um but by his grace he's brought Beauty out of the things but um so I did I started a nonprofit didn't didn't want to didn't mean to just saw children not problems I saw children and I'm like this isn't okay this is not okay I'm selling my Escalade I'm selling my house I'm giving up my real estate career in San Diego w and I'm going to do something about this and God you better help me cuz I don't know what the heck to do and he did he's helped me for the last 17 years um and I believe he'll continue to but in that um I brought the guy that I was dating I was actually um also having a kind of relationship with one of my best friends that was a female at the time I felt so horrible about this double life because the guy that I actually was dating yeah was the opposite of what I was told men are he was kind he was gentle he was was saving himself from Marriage he was patient he was honoring and I'm like okay he's probably the only one so I better hold on wow if this samex stuff is wrong and I'm not because I'm not going to be alone and I'm not going to be Mother Teresa so I got to hang on to this one not saying that's right I don't celebrate that but it's where I was at and so I hang on to him he follows me to Ethiopia um we end up getting married a year later wow um we were together I think for four years and the entire time I'm just thinking God you got to make me fall in love with this man you just got to do something in my heart or maybe this is just something the cross I'm supposed to Bear is just just love him and be the best wife I can you know um never saw myself having children as I said earlier and so I'm like but he wanted to have children and it was just it was hard I married someone it the scripture says for what God has brought together let no man separate fear brought me with him I love to as a friend I loved him as a man I loved him as a man of God but that doesn't mean that that's the calling on our life as marriage for one another yeah and out of fear of being alone I married him um the night before I got married I got on my knees and I said God I promise you I will never cheat on him with a woman wow strangest pre-wedding prayer God might have ever heard right um and it it's important to hear because I said I will never not God help me not God is this what you have for me it's me being God me making decisions and me telling him what I'll do I don't know if you hear Pride or not I didn't celebrate pride in the LGBT community but I sure did in my own life in the spiritual life yeah and so that of course in your own strength I mean at least in my own strength maybe everybody else is different but In My Own Strength I will crumble and I crumbled after about a year and I cheated on him with a woman um and I realized at that point because this was a man that he did show me unconditional love when I told him about the women about my past he was willing to stick with me he did not celebrate it he didn't condemn he didn't condone he didn't condemn um and when I saw how I had hurt him and the years of life that I felt like I took from him I was like okay God I got to do something different I can't keep doing this and he wanted to work on the marriage um we went through some Council and uh yeah they pretty much said that the marriage was not valid because I was dishonest um with myself and then of course in turn with him and um he said we can work through this I said I can't hold you in this any longer I don't celebrate divorce annulments is what we got but um I felt like I was going to hold him back from what God had um he was meant to be a father a amazing husband and he is now praise God um but I just came to a point where I was like God I can't do this I'm okay so I'm not going to just try to fall in love with someone right what do you freaking want from me so I went back to the counselor same counselor same counselor and basically was like okay I didn't try this so you knew what you were GNA hear yeah and I was like you know what that's fine I even went to a priest and he kind of celebrated the priest who sent me to that counselor or suggested that counselor I went to him too for counseling he basically oh actually which is wow he's no longer a priest anymore by the way he stepped down and is now married to a female though um but because some people are like well maybe he was gay right but um he actually told me I sat in his office and I was just weeping I'm like I don't know what to do I've ruined my life this man he's amazing I've ruined his I've lied I've cheated I've I I don't know who I am and I'm attracted to women and he's like one day one day I believe the church will bless same-sex unions and I said I hope not here's a girl who has it I said we're going to change the word of God so that I can feel better maybe and I remember just kind of hoping for that but also this same wrestle and um so today with we'll get into that probably too but yeah I just remember hearing that I'm like you know what screw it I'm going to just try it I'm going to what everybody says I'm going to find Freedom in I'm going to stop lying cheating double life I'm going to just live an open and out homosexual lifestyle and let's see if I'm actually happy and free and God said Jesus says he came to give us life and life abundant I never wanted to reject God through all this wrestle through the double life I showed up at church not because because oh my parents had to see me I wanted God and people may not understand that I could have rejected everything that I believed to be true and just done whatever I wanted I had the money I had the people I had everything and I I didn't and so I just thought okay you know what I've got a priest I've got a Catholic counselor maybe I'm freaking missing something I'm all in yeah let me do it and so I started dating women openly I I got in an moment and um I I I just there's so much to draw from what you're saying the I want to that that that you didn't hope the church change it teaching is so beautiful there's an interior um compass that was always pointing that's Grace right it is Grace yeah uh but there's and it's that reality too that sometimes just following God in the ordinary ways requires okay Lord I will be ground down to dust following you and sticking to your law and you I'm not going to ask you to change your law to make me comfortable you know um that's that's it's the cross I me there's no escaping this but it's the it's true fre freedom but you you you went that route of thinking let's let's try the world's invitation maybe there's Freedom there so what was what's the experience so I dove in yeah you dove in you you came out right everybody's promise when you come out is that there's Liberation there's Freedom there's there was a level there was a level of that cuz Secrets really are awful hiding something and being able to bring it out into the light mhm there's a level of freedom in that there's a level of even and people might say oh that's that's heresy I think there's even a level that only God himself probably understands to its fullness of even stepping closer to God in just being real being honest not hiding taking masks off I'll go with that right so it's not the fullness right but I believe it's a step and so there was a level of Freedom there was a a certain amount of weight taken off my shoulders but living in that lifestyle my family did not disown me my family did not and and I know many people I have people reach out from all over the world all different walks of life families dis own them many churches do not treat them well I mean school I mean there's just any any angle so I was not in the place where my family disowned me where they stopped loving me they never ever condoned or celebrated My Lifestyle but they' never stopped celebrating me there's a difference God but that that's them embracing their cross I'm going to stand here in the place oft pain yeah right no those are not joyful Seasons yeah you can give it up by saying high five or give it up by saying I'm shutting you out but the Lord says St here and be be pain it's love I remember asking my mom I was dating this girl and I said Mom if I get married are you going to come and she just looked at me and she said I love you too much mhm I love you too too much Kim I will always love you you will always be my baby girl always but I cannot I cannot support what God does not support for you I just can't I won't I love you too much that's beautiful and that do you know how hard that is to hear yeah it's hard to hear but I was also thankful yeah that truth was truth and it didn't change when her only girl went against that like there's something to that we're Longing For Truth we're longing for stability we're longing God says he was he is and he always will be he is unchanging right and so that was difficult I'm not going to say I was like oh yay oh no totally I mean that hurt you know but I got it too it was it was you felt love in the pain yeah and I'm like dang and my family they had to learn how to walk it out and work it out I mean my brother my two older brothers the younger of the two would have me over and my girlfriend over for dinner you know and then he was convicted he's like oh my gosh I feel like I'm actually celebrating and condoning her lifestyle you know and then we had to have an uncom uncomfortable conversation and you know so there was a lot that we had to work through and they didn't do perfect I didn't do perfect um but I I do believe they relied on the Lord to guide him um and we stumbled through the process it was painful years for all of us I remember once you you had mentioned this so I feel like I should bring it up um I remember once I introduced my girlfriend to one of my best friends and she said uh my best friend said I am so glad you finally came out as gay and I looked at her I was like I'm not gay and my girlfriend's like you're you're not gay we've been dating for a year you know and she's like what do you mean and I said well I mean yeah we're dating yes you're a female I'm a female yes I have these attractions yes I'm acting on him I was like but it's not who I am you never said that as your identity it's crazy but Chris when I came back from Ethiopia people oh you're the missionary in Ethiopia I'm like no they're like wait I thought you have a mission in Ethiopia yes I do wow but you're not a missionary I was like no it's just what I do wow so I didn't know who I was I will be honest didn't know who I was but I knew who I wasn't that's the the part that's near impossible to break through if someone's identity becomes solidified as as what they're attracted to or what they do yeah everything flows from that everything follows from that I mean who you are yeah right and and and if and if that's true then it should be elal for Christians to teach their children Christian teaching against a person practice you're you're telling yeah exactly yeah that then you are responsible for being a as as as as bad as a as a member of the KKK who's a black child or maybe has a black child but does you know right I mean you have him taken away but that's the The Logical natural outcome of how the world takes this yeah what a Grace that you didn't that you didn't go there it's grace alone I'm telling you because for me I mean but even in that and you know so some people are like oh you just didn't accept the title or the identity of gay because you grew up in a Catholic home I'm like okay then why didn't I accept the identity of a missionary because that's like a badge of honor quotee so why wouldn't I have taken that like oh well I don't know that's amazing exactly so really what it is well there's a lot there's a lot to it but I just never I didn't go to Pride festivals I I never wanted to celebrate Pride it was actually something I always prayed against and so I had a hard time being a part of a community that I liked genuinely I liked a lot of the people but I'm like I don't want to wave a flag around and be prideful about something I'm actually still wrestling with and and you know even though I was out and not hiding and not lying I didn't have peace Chris I did not have peace describe that like how how so in some ways it was liberating that you're not carrying the burden of a secret yes and in some ways that's even a step closer to the truth will set you free on the other hand you the the world's promise that this is all just rainbows and Roses what where did it fall short well um besides the inner conflict even because someone might just say well just fell short because of your moral scripp well I had I did enjoy the person I was because I genuinely loved her now did I have a perfect purified love absolutely not right sacrificial putting you know all this but but I did enjoy who she was I I loved our relationship but the reality was I had like moments of that it wasn't a continuous because I had something within that was saying this is still not what you're meant for relationship with her I believe we could have been best friends but that didn't fill the void of well what if she ends up getting married now I'm alone again so this fear of being alone was constantly speaking to me and so I held on to these women that I was with because I didn't want to be alone and so for me you know we'd go out we'd have a great time and then when I'd go to bed at night and actually let things settle and didn't drink or didn't do and thank God I didn't get into drugs or too much alcohol um but I would sometimes just drink to just kind of not feel I'm like you know what if we just if I just go and drink I I don't have to hear that small voice that's like I have something better for you Kim right it wasn't like you're going to hell Kim this voice that I heard was not you're going to hell you're being bad you're terrible it was I've got something better and I'm like I don't freaking trust you oh I don't trust you you discovered actually who God is through this oh in it while we were Sinners he loved us oh my go that's awesome but I didn't fully know that I would say within the last three years yeah is when I've really started to experience the father I experienced Jesus as Savior October 17th 2014 but God the father came was this what broke you out of that life the lifestyle yeah yeah so tell me about the the the transition here I was in Ethiopia um still dating this woman and um she cheated on me when I was gone in Ethiopia and I was like okay came home and I just realized kind of the similar moment I had with my husband where I was like I am hurting this person I my choices are hurting this person I had something very similar but now with her I'm like Define that what did you think was when when I saw her I felt like by Grace God showed me just the state of where she was at and I saw her not happy I saw so much that just made me so sad and I felt like God asked me the question do you think that I introduced you to her to leave her like this and I saw what our relationship was doing to each other wow and um we ended up breaking up and I got in the car with my friend he brought me over to her house to get my stuff um he was actually Discerning the Dominicans at the time and um he didn't say a word he said can I can I take you somewhere tonight and I was like if it's a freaking date dude he's like I'm not into you like thank god um so he said no I want to take you somewhere it's just like this prayer thing I said okay sure whatever like at this point I got no plans right I was broke up I feel like crap so he's a good friend he by the way he walked with me while I was in a relationship with this girl very much a lover of Jesus he very much loved by Jesus and then a lover of Jesus and he never ever condoned or condemned he walked with me he would speak God's truth over me he's like Kim God's plans for your life he's like I was praying for you this morning and I was weeping in the kitchen I'm like what he's like oh my gosh I was like overwhelmed with how much God loves you he never came at just the sexuality he was without even me knowing it he was building up like I say like my inner man he would speak God's word he was almost like prophesying over my life that's incredible and so I just loved being around him and I'm like why is he not talking about homosexuality I know he knows it's wrong I knew he knew it was wrong but I'm like it freaked me out I'm like why it compelled me like why is he not talking about it cuz everybody else does why is he not and it actually drew me to him more his relationship with God was so tangible when I was around him I wanted to be around him and so he was of course the person I call he brings me pi drops me um gets all my stuff get in the car says I'm going to bring you to this place and I threw up my hands no direction from him it was as if he wasn't even in the car wow this is all happening I felt like I saw that about my ex I was like God I'm done I threw up both my hands this is October 17th 2014 I said I am done I am done being God of my own life wow I have screwed up my own life X Y and Z every person my own family I am horrible at being God please Jesus be Lord over my life I didn't have a script for this I didn't hear I wasn't in Protestant circles so I didn't even know the any of these prayers and I'm like it was just real from my heart it was a cry of desperate need of a savior and I said I don't this is not the life you died for so please show up be God and be God right away because my flesh I've been feeding it for my whole life so I need you to be God and to show up now I said I know how I am and I know I have a very short window here so please please please show me that you're better than anything I've experienced and I said and I used to do real estate I said God I'm GNA go on lease to own I'm not full of yours yet but um I will let you rent me yeah yeah let's give this a sh take me over and if it's good I'm all in I'll be all yours that night Chris God showed up in a way as I consider October I was born on December 22nd but I consider October 17th my birthday praise God I'm sorry you said look I didn't learn to some Protestant circles and I leave people through a prayer like that every one of my events and sometimes people think you sound like a Protestant preacher I'm like dude you've forgotten what Catholic means thank you like this is a bad a relationship with Jesus all our Protestant brothers and sisters know more about our Catholic faith than we do I know like this is the reason we do all the Catholic stuff it's because of that exchange of heart like inage all the stuff you do is cuz you guys bow to it's it's about that what what a Grace that he overcame you with that like I was UN undone and my friend he never said a word this was me and God and I'm telling you Chris my friend brought me the guy who's Discerning the Dominicans brought me to an Evangelical prayer meeting it was in like an office warehouse I walk in I'm like bro what did you bring me to and he's like oh it's a prayer meeting I'm like where 's the like crucifix and where's the pews there's like folding chairs and then there's like office desks and he's like oh just wait and I go through all the details in the in the book but God encountered me that night through a prophetic word from an African preacher wow and he spoke victory over my life he knew nothing he never met me my friend had never met like nothing was pre- exchanged this man read my mail like gosh and in such a non- condemning non- shameful he just same thing my friend was doing declaring God's words over me he was doing and that it was piercing my heart I fell to the ground I was out on the ground for hours they started cleaning up the whole event I'm out I something Divine I don't care if anybody believes me something Divine that night happened praise God in many ways that I don't even think I have a full grid for I could have got up off the floor but God had me in this state of do you trust me can I can I respond to what you just asked and I'm telling you something started shifting in my heart when I got off that floor at midnight I had a hunger for God like I'd never had before in my life I wanted to read his word not I mean Mass was different everything started to change I didn't get up an angel I didn't get up perfect yeah I didn't get up without temptation but I had a greater hunger that I didn't have before wow words we talked about it yeah words spoken matter I spoke real words God responded and his word began to do a massive work and has continued to contined to it's not a oneand done oh man Kim so the part of this is like I'm following Jesus I'm all in is also I'm I'm living a chased life because I'm samesex attracted um tell me how how how's that possible there's going to be people watching who are like but I that can't I can't do that well there's got to be something better there's got to be something better yes I'm not not with women that was a lot of knots I'm not dating women I followed it good because I'm afraid of Hell hell's real I'm not not with women because um of punishment right I'm not with women because I've found a greater love I've found a greater love does that mean and and and you've found a great love with your wife right does that mean that other Temptations aren't there does that mean that that you're not human and now everything's just perfect no but when you found a greater love that you there the desire to go back to what used to be doesn't have the same taste now I've struggled I've fallen I've scripture said it and I've lived it out unfortunately it says like a dog that returned to its throw up I've gone back in this journey I gone back and for a moment for a moment and oh my gosh and do you know that not once has God left me do you know that when I've gone back to him and run from him but run to him after a fall that I've experienced an even greater love now I feel like forward now like Paul does that mean now we abuse his grace and we say sin so we can receive great grace no absolutely that's abuse of Love yeah but when and if run back to him like I that's why it's hard somebody once asked me they're like would you if you could go back and change your whole life yeah would you and in many ways I would say yes for my own soul and for so many that I affect and hurt but I don't know if I'd know Jesus the way that I do and need him I need him just as much today as I did October 17th 2014 do I have the same desires that I had then no has a lot been healed and transformed yes is there a lot more to come yes but I need him I need him and I don't know if I would have known how much I'd need him oh praise the Lord I want you to say a word to the church right now by the church you what do we mean just people of God specifically well we're all the church but people in leadership you know you said there's there's something more I think sometimes people are soft on this issue in church leadership and getting softer and actually encouraging a gay lifestyle because back to that that prayer you made I don't think they know that there's actually something more and that's tragic yeah if you know it you're always going to hold that something more up with love I wouldn't want to hold that back from anyone yeah how could you right but you can't offer something you haven't first received yeah and uh you know recently um Pope Francis was asked about blessing gay couples um and and and he said you know if someone comes forward looking for help from God bless them but it shouldn't be confused with marriage and and my first thought was like well I don't know a single priest who would have someone come up to the after Mass say bless me and then say well what's your sexual orientation right U you know um so I I I I celebrate that I agree with him on that there there's blessing a person is different than blessing a union right right blessing a person I pray that we always are blessing totally one another but to bless bless the union is different is different yeah so people are already running with that though and and they're putting ceremonials around that there's different countries in Europe there's Bishops Bishop conferences who who are working on having official blessings in a church which um you know if we're to take Pope Francis at his word here it says you yes bless someone who looks for help of course it's shouldn't be confused in marriage well the moment it becomes a public thing that's not a plea for help that's a plea for an endorsement right a celebration a celebration of the thing itself yeah um and it's it's obvious it's it almost feels like gaslighting when people are saying well no no no it's just this is this is just for help or to celebrate the good aspects of no no no it's not and you know it's not so let's stop talk let's stop pretending um I but but a lot of these people I think are are are claiming presuming to speak on your behalf because I look at that and my heart breaks first and foremost thinking of the people who are hanging on the cross next to Jesus who have suffered so much to follow him who have sacrificed so much to follow him as his word is revealed and then seeing this it's like that your own church walking away from you and again this is not I don't want to scandalize or make people think this is happening everywhere because it's certainly not but there are but it is happening it's happening and there's people who want it to happen more uh what would you say what do you want to say to to church leaders actually look at the camera and say it speak on your own behalf here what do you want to say to them as as they claim to be looking up for your needs well it breaks my heart because it's holding back fullness for people it held back fullness for me and I experienced that firsthand I experienced leadership I experienced counsel that led me into something that they thought would make me happy but didn't align with What God Says and so it didn't lead to Ultimate free freedom and happiness and joy that he has for me you you will be taking away maybe part of a suffering that will bring great Beauty in someone's life if they seek Jesus I think we can walk with people I think there's so many other ways but Jesus died for sin he didn't celebrate it he died for it he died for sin he shed his very blood for sin so it was never celebrated he sat with sinners he sat with Sinners but he never condoned or celebrated the sin that they were in and when we start to do that with one another we're simply hurting each other we're not thinking eternally but we're not even thinking here and now I if I were with the woman that I was with and if I had continued in that lifestyle her now husband and two twins would not be here I wouldn't have the relationship in my opinion I wouldn't have the relationship with Jesus that I have I wouldn't have the community of Believers that have laid down their life and their desires to have a greater love and so we're actually robbing people when we try to recreate Christ we will not save anyone when we try to recreate who Jesus is and what he said it is man and woman and there is beauty between women and women in deep holy friendships and relationship and we need to celebrate that I once Chris I was in a prison thank you for that by the way and and and and for the record I'm not saying Pope Francis endorses that but I do see this trend but yeah go ahead I think when certain words aren't said and there's some blanks people start filling them in right and that's very scary scary we we shouldn't we shouldn't be filling in with what we think we go back to what the church says and somebody say that's so legalistic um no Christ set up a kingdom here on Earth there's one in heaven here on Earth amen and he wants it to look like that and there's not confusion he's not the author of confusion amen and so when we leave a lot of these gaps it it's just so I just pray for clarity amongst leaders to speak truth without a lot of gaps so we don't have this confusion amen so I just want to say one thing I was in a prison a women's prison sharing it was the very first time I had ever shared yeah my story and I promised God I said I will never I said mark my words God I will never share about sexuality because I never want anybody to be hurt I never want someone to feel shame condemnation I want truth out there but pick someone else through a lot of different things that happened God continued to slowly pursue my heart in that and I said okay fine once once I'll share and so I shared at a women's prison I was asked to share and I thought okay this is my oneand done because I'm going to get beat up these women over 90% of them were in the lifestyle and um just shared my testimony shared what God had done is doing and has planned to do that it's not over and almost every woman stood up in tears clapping crying come up to me this one woman came up giant woman I thought it was my um my moment where this was my life at its end just very large woman and she said I am married to a woman and I just looked at her and by Grace God just silenced my tongue and I just looked at her and a little tear came down my face and then boom tears down her face and she said every single word you spoke pierced my heart I know that I married her and we were meant to be sisters we were meant to be friends and probably a friendship like none of my other but I chose to fill my heart with her in a way it was never supposed to and this woman fell in my arms and she started repenting she started asking God for forgiveness she said I don't know how to walk this out but I want this relationship but not how God not not against how God wants it I didn't say I mean I couldn't I was like this is what we're holding back from people oh when we try to just condone or or minimize or celebrate yeah we're we're leaving out what God wants to do we're taking his place we're saying God that's too hard your way is too hard this is easier and I think this is what you meant that's no it's not it's not and you're robbing people wow and it's not an invitation to be alone no no right how are you intentionally living in Fellowship right now I am learning my gosh I'm learning I'm not not as holy and as patient and as kind and as loving as I thought I was alone yeah exactly when I was isolated and like in My Little religious bubble my little you know Church bubble but um I am learning that God when he said it is not good for man to be alone like I said earlier it doesn't always look like marriage marriage is beautiful I celebrate it but there's a call for Unity with him but see Adam was already walking with God and God said it's not good that man be alone so he wanted Community right that's why religious sisters and brothers they don't live alone we're meant to do this walk together we need each other we are the body of Christ a hand alone is nothing and so I'm learning I I personally right now I don't know for how long or but for a season live in a community home um just like people who maybe come out of you know any addictions they live in a house amongst people who get it right like who dude I'm feeling tempted you're Liv with other women who have yeah women and men um different levels of the house but who have come out of Lifestyle been out of Lifestyle for five plus years how do people where do people find out about this in case someone's well we don't like accept applications for people to live with us um but I think God's doing something my friend Jackie Angel has said I think you're supposed to start something I say you just talk to God about that don't talk to me about that um but I I do believe God has said so I am part of um an organization called rainbow Revival and what we do is we want to make sure that people hear testimony the scripture says that testimony is prophecy into someone else's life and so we want to Proclaim what God has done and is doing right not from a place of hatred or shame or condemnation on anyone just to share the goodness of what he's doing amidst the struggles amidst the challenges right as this is just real life walked out and so what happens is people start reaching out reaching out we do these Freedom marches um right now once a once a year in different in different states um people Google that and find out about it you can go to rambor revival. org um and then we yeah we do Freedom marches but we've also created a online community so people get together they connect they're like oh my gosh you get it like there're so there's a girl that just came out of the transgender lifestyle she was on she was living as a male for like seven years on all the medications removed her breast everything she reaches out we get um connected on social media unbelievable she comes to freom March she just shares on our freedom March call after like just together everybody who was there whoever wanted to get on and share how the Lord works and she's like I am so thankful for my church community that I've had for the last year two years whatever she said but my goodness when God brought me to you guys and I said these people get it these people get it a fullness came in she said shame lifted praise God and so Amen to our church circles Amen to family circles Amen to but sometimes we need people around us that say no I get it I know what it means to walk out this call of celibacy and and sometimes come in like you can share that truth but as a married man you get to go home to your wife and your kids and so they're like okay Chris amen enjoy your wife tonight and your family enjoy Christmas and Easter and when I think of a holiday I'm like oh great I get to sit at the kids table again you know like I literally and I love my nephews thank God but like you know what I mean like I'm going to be 40 I'm still at the Kids Table yeah yeah because there's certain things people don't get do thanksgivings together we do our stuff we love our families we love our church communities I'm Catholic I have different Community there and then I have my Protestant brothers and sisters and so I am just so thankful but do not do it alone do not walk it alone if you struggle do not walk alone you're not meant to God said in himself he wants to bring you into Community into family into family uh we'll put in the show Notes too some some maybe good Catholic apostolates things that you will ask you to to recommend things places where people could find community support in following the teaching of Jesus who experienced same sex distraction and the more the more we're talking the more excited I am because this issue can lead to despair it's it's so divisive it's you know and it feels like well the the secular movement has done a good job at convincing everybody that I'm a hateful bigots like it's hard to even preach the gospel in some settings now because of this uh and yet I'm I'm I'm just fired up with so much hope right now because if we get this right we will have preached the gospel more powerfully than ever in history because we'll have gone straight to the heart of people's deepest Brokenness with an uncompromising truth and and a love that says I'll I'll be with you right here uh man come Lord Jesus we will see I believe this there is a prophetic word and I believe it to be true I feel it my bones I feel it in my own personal life that there will be a mass Exodus out of the LGBT community into Christ we got to remember Jesus doesn't it amen over a 100,000 will come out of the LGBT community into Christ the question is are we as a church ready are we ready to welcome them are we ready to invite them we ready to begin at all and to walk together yeah and be uncomfortable yes let me start let me uh let me land on this um on this question and I I was thinking of accompaniment as you talked about your friend because he really embodied it you know W without saying hey you're fine yet he walked with you and I think of Jesus on the road to Emmas literally walking in the wrong direction away from Jerusalem and uh you know this this couple was was was saying all this these misperceptions you know Jesus is dead we thought this would be something he didn't say yeah yeah he was dead no he but he but he also didn't correct it right away he kept walking in the wrong direction and then after he was revealed they turned around and went back to Jerusalem you know um we have to be willing to walk with people even in the wrong direction sometimes and this is real accompaniment but we we know the right direction in our head otherwise we're just wandering aimlessly and not accompany anywhere but someone's watching right now who's thinking but how do I take the first step I mean if if there's people who or my kid who thinks that I am a hateful bigot because they're so convinced that this is their very identity they won't even talk to me anymore how do I open the door and what do I do what's the first step I love Parables Jesus taught used them to teach the deeper meanings he used very simple things and the first thing I thought of how do you get someone who's eating unhealthy to start eating healthy you got to introduce Beauty you've got it what is better not just tell him it's better see what my friend did was he showed me Jesus by the way he loved me the way he walked with me the way he prayed for me with me see he wasn't always just praying over me he was interceding for me never saying and I'm praying for you and I'm praying that you guys break up and I'm praying he didn't focus on my sexuality he focused on my soul he focused on my soul and he started to build that up within me and see so often I think we try to get people away from sin to get them to Jesus get them to Jesus and watch how they get away from sin we're like twisting it and doesn't San love that because guess what we think not sinning we're winning if I'm not sinning salvation is here no you cannot sin and be very far from Christ right and so in this draw people to Jesus but guess what you also can't present or draw someone to something you haven't first been drawn to so seeking that deeper relationship with Jesus one on-one and then saying God send me out to bring people back to your heart to show them how good you are so that it's not a ripping something from their hands but an exchange right you see gold and you're holding silver you reach for gold can we hold the gold of who God is who Christ is as a father not a cop see a lot of people reject they reject God because they have a false idea of who he is they don't know him as father they don't know an unconditional love and unconditional love doesn't mean we celebrate everything person is always celebrated not everything the person does is always celebrated and so I think walking with people revealing Christ to them let Christ reveal himself to you and then now you can be that light in their life don't hone in always on their sexuality or their sin thing right that they struggle with hone in on on Christ call the gold out in them let them hear the beauty my friend used to tell me how wonderful I was I never thought he was celebrating sin I was doing so awesome and so I desired more of that and now I get to be in a place where I actually get to live in that Amit struggles am Miss am Miss challenges Kim I'm so grateful for this I just felt the hand of God in this entire conversation I know we started crying when we started talking I almost started crying before we started talking when we just right just we were just praying because I just felt the um just the pain in this area the Lord just brought it to my heart and mind um on all sides you know and the and the pain in our own hearts of of watching people go astray and and reject the the Lord even within the church and it's like what do I what do I do and then parents and their pain as kids reject and kids feeling this and feeling like I can't talk to anybody it's just and the devil has a feel day when no one talks about the pain yeah you you don't mention it and you can't manage it you know um well thank you yeah for having conversation oh because if you don't invite someone with a story like mine then I think this is part of the beginning of what the church can do I think it's a a big piece of what the church can do I know there's a lot of Ministries that ask me to come and share and every time I'm thankful not because I want to go just share more no because I want the church to continue to speak on this it's what I didn't have I I don't know how it would have been if I would have watched a a show or a podcast like yours with someone who shared and so thank you for being willing to step on some shake ground and trust God in the midst of it praise God yeah real is the only only gear I have amen I noticed that about you I like it uh would you would you lead us in prayer maybe for that that person who's watching and feeling the pain right now wherever they're at yeah yeah name of the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit father God we come before you and we thank you I thank you that you are a good good good father I thank you than you Jesus that you gave your very life so that we could have life and life abundantly Lord not just here on Earth but for eternity I thank you that you are the bridegroom and we are the bride I thank you that you have a love that beckons us a love that never gives up it's never too far out of reach that you're actually reaching for each one of us for deeper intimacy with us to fill the very longings of our heart God and I just lift up right now every person that struggles every person that struggles with same-sex attraction or confusion with their identity anybody that struggles with confusion of your identity God of who you are because we can never get ourselves right if we have you wrong and so I just pray holy spirit that revelation of the father of Jesus would come Jesus you fully reveal the father you are the full revelation of the father and so I ask Holy Spirit reveal reveal Jesus to us personally and individually meet people in their car in their homes in the midst of their Brokenness show them how good you are and how you want to be Lord over their life to not Lord over them but to actually lift and carry them that you are good God and so Holy Spirit we need you and increase Jesus you said it's better that you go so that you can send your spirit so Holy Spirit increase in each one of us increase in your church in leadership Lord draw us to the fullness of your truth the fullness of your truth which is the fullness of your love those are never separated I thank you Lord for who you are and who we are to you I thank you that we are loved right where we at we are at and that you want to love each one of us into wholeness may your love break through all shame all guilt and all condemnation and I pray in Jesus's name that the prodigal sons and daughters would return home through the blood of the Lamb Jesus Christ and that we as a family can celebrate the coming home of lost brothers and sisters for the glory of God in this earth and for eternity in Jesus's name amen praise you Jesus thank you guys so much for watching Jesus loves you so much it's ridiculous I don't care what you struggle with what you've done how bad you think you are whether you have a shame and secrecy in this area or any other area of your life that was revealed to your heart as we were talking you are not defined by that Shame by that secret by that sin by anything you are defined by his love for you and almighty God found you worth dying for but I got nothing to add to that oh yeah I do like subscribe comment share this stuff's too good to keep to yourself so share with everybody you know don't be afraid to do that do not be afraid we'll see you next time we're not shaming people who don't agree with us or who fall into sin we're reminding them of who they are that what Jesus offers is better than what the world offers if voices in our church are afraid to tell people when it comes to these hard hot button issues what the truth is and where real fulfillment is found I have to wonder are they forgetting themselves sometimes we have to do as Pope Francis said talk about the issues don't be afraid but always talk about them in a context what is that context it's the love of God the father in Jesus Christ that's the context if we proclaim the gospel to every single person if we proclaim the gospel to every single person throughout history it's not because we're telling them you're wrong it's because we're telling them there's something better than what the world is offering you if you're samex attracted if you're a teenager who's pregnant outside of wedlock there is something better than the emptiness that this world is inviting you to and it's Jesus Christ he's the someone better never never be ashamed of him he who denies me before others I'll deny before my heavenly father hey guys I hope this has blessed you so much now a lot of people don't have the time to to watch hourlong podcasts in their daily life in fact a lot of us have almost no time at all in our daily lives that's why I have created something called the thre minute reset me and my dear friend Pat lanon renowned business author in just three minutes a day inspire you in your busy work day Monday through Friday to stay focused on what matters most go to three minutes net that's the number three minutes. Net sign up for our newsletter on there and subscribe to that show let us inspire you thanks so much guys love you

Channel: Chris Stefanick

Views: 51,566

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Id: QkxqBIkIwuw

Length: 77min 4sec (4624 seconds)

Published: Tue Jan 16 2024