KH on Cavett day 2

Maryna period on my show I called her to thank her again and she was sort of in a state she wasn't familiar with television obviously was her first time on and she certainly wasn't familiar with the power and the impact that a talk-show particularly can can wield she said she had been out that people had yelled at her from windows and yelled at her from buses she said that people bowed to her on the street and thanked her for the best evening life all this is she Oh wonders she said I guess they were college boys they started chanting hey Kate you were great and I didn't know what to do pardon the imitation I'm not Martin Short but the interesting thing was that in a way all of this helped her career that day she was telling me about all the reactions she said you know really that guy she asked if she could call me dick can you imagine she said I really think we shouldn't show the second show because you've made me into a goddamn Saint well I was glad to do it glad to help her career in any way I could actually I did later some relatives said that it created some interest in her that had died in certain places and was hot again and on the show by sheer chance it crossed my mind to say are you sorry you've never worked with Laurence Olivier and immediately she came back worthwhile neither of us is dead yet the truth of that was borne out when somebody from seeing that put together a movie which the two of them did so that's another little contribution I've made to the art so here is the second Katharine Hepburn show and we are on October 3rd 1973 New York City hi I'm Dick Cavett I hope you saw last night's show I was having a conversation with the amazing Katharine Hepburn and there was just no way to stop at the end of only 90 minutes and you will see the rest of that conversation tonight I told last night how this came about never having been on television she agreed to come into the studio one afternoon recently for a test only to check things out see how it felt and while we were doing that she suddenly said let's just go ahead and do it and startled and delighted and sitting here in my shirtsleeves I agreed and we just started talking and like you I suspect I have always wanted to have a conversation with Katharine Hepburn or at least hear one and I think that one reason she did this I know is that what she explained last night her belief in the American film theater series it's a series of remarkable new films which will begin showing around the country on a subscription basis the end of this month she stars in one of these Edward Albee's a delicate balance I think she also did this because she likes to make herself do things that challenge her we'll be back in a moment with Katharine Hepburn we are again what do you have looked at my feet and I realized I should have made them up I'm here that you're the first person who Erica whoever came on only half made of your feet are wonderful if I say so myself why is there such a space between your second and third I don't understand that that's just been happening lately has that ever been revealed to well I don't know America I don't know Clark I'm still move okay yes don't ask about anything that happens to you as long as it works as time passes use it as know find out why yeah people always said that you and Tracy are different styles of actor and yet you work so well together supposedly a peoplewe style class again well I resent that yeah write down no I think he's he's the style as always that mystery they can never account for the greatness of the two of you because it's supposedly two different kinds of actors can't work together but you we're gonna be no I don't think that's true I just think he's better than I am because he comes but it's the same method he is my ID so when I mean what he does I would really like to be able to do and I learned a great deal from him now I took a different step away from him when I did a lot of the classics because um I just I go mad when English actors are thought to be better than American actors yeah residing American actors are better than English actors but I don't think most of us know how to speak English I'm glad yes is there one up on us there but I think we have great to you know style and and power but I think the language itself mm-hmm we really have ever yeah I think if you think of the voices in America the voices for instance when I went to school when I went to Bryn Mawr we were taught speech we were made very conscious of how we sounded my mother and father spoke very well so that what I heard was pretty good and if I didn't sound attractive to them I was criticized by them now and in your very expensive schools which presumably talking is one of the big things in life isn't it and now on television talking is a total necessity now Rose build against Wilkie Roseville can talk so much better yet charming voice look at the power of Winston Churchill's voice I'm in a great voice you hear some people look at me they'd have no idea who I am but the minute they hear the voice so that a voice has tremendous power and I really think in the schools we should start again do why should we sound unpleasant and there and beard jokes of the rest of the human race yes in English take pride in criticizing us on that and I they have some of course great actors but I don't think they had anybody who could do it there any better but I think because they've done the classics and this is why I did the classics and Lawrence Lange that said to me Kate if you don't you're going to be considered limit so rather late night I thought well he's right no I'll start to make a fool of myself a red flag to us well I think again you know we must proceed we must develop we must improve ourselves you can't just stand still that's the trouble with a lot of our product is plate played down to the lowest common denominator it's played down to the audience and the audience doesn't want to be played down to their receive it their laugh the Americans are an enormous leap alight people but they want to be raised up they've got more money now they they want to improve a father doesn't want to see his children just you know travel along the same clip that he did if they can improve themselves have you ever gotten really sore at an audience I remember once at Stratford someone snapped your picture during a performance with a flashbulb and you stopped and said there will be no more of that or we won't go on and it was one of the most dramatic moments I've ever did that once in cocoa - I said now here we have someone who is willing to destroy everyone else's good time in order to have a photograph to take home so why don't we just stop we haven't gone very far we can begin again and let her take as many pictures as she would like that's why I would have been a great school principal oh I have a feeling that woman was never seen or heard of again uh could you suppose you just finished the movie summertime let's say and then you go right into a play or maybe you went to Shakespeare from that I remember what do you tone down or what are you tone up I don't there's any difference really that answers that question because I'm so tired of that always no no I don't to me there was no difference in just pencil there was no difference at all because it's concentration but if you and I are speaking I have a rather loud voice and voice yes I'm loud but I mean a voice you would and then you are aware when the audience is quiet and when you're looking at them you don't have to pitch a thing up even in a huge theatre I don't care particularly for the loudspeaker but I think it's necessary because everybody is so used to hearing it loud now the music is loud everything was sort of stepped up you know yeah a screen actor will fail in the theater without voice but other than that you don't think there's an amazing no because I think it's concentration isn't it yeah did one more thing did Tracy ever resent the idea that people would say well sure he's great but he can't play Richard the third and he can't play you know I don't think he thought anything about it yeah I don't think he thought anything about it would never have occurred to him to I think was to me it was a great pity that he didn't do certain of those things but he did what he wanted to do and what suited him and uh I think had he stayed in the theater he undoubtedly would have done many of those different things but a lot of the actors at that time uh the style was to go to Hollywood and sign a long-term deal and he needed the money yet a boy wasn't too well and he just needed the money and it suited him he liked the warm climate I like the cold climate and then I was so tormented in the theater it frightened me so cuz I thought well I must come back and overcome that and it took me my whole life I mean I even did that Coco how I could have been insane enough to do Coco when I couldn't obviously sing at all you know I study singing I still study it fascinates made soap made a lot about talking and a certain abouts about singing I studied with a woman named Sue Seaton who really and it's very difficult the voice because you see you wonder Mimi am I gonna be able to make a sound when I'm petrified you ever lose a plug to Betty Davis not that I know of but I mean I might have you're like I yes I do I think she's awfully good and and but I knew someone was I played what I wanted to play by large when I ever did a thing because I felt sorry for the studio because they had to pay me or something then I was sorry that I done it and one or two things I did because I dislike someone and I knew that they were going to be offered it if I didn't do it so I did it and I was always loved seeing it my reason I mean you have to really want to do it yeah yeah well know what I mean fundamentally well you have to think of every reason why not to do something and if you can't give yourself a satisfactory answer then you must just do it mustn't you yeah you mustn't sit back you can't just be no no no no no because it's all scary were you among the people considered to play Scarlett O'Hara yes I'd ever knew that yes the the book was sent to me first by the publishers and I gave it to someone who was it a head of RKO all these people will have to be nameless for to read and he gave it to his chief sort of of staff and they read it and said it's not a sympathetic part for Kate and then when David bought it it was going to be directed by my great friend George Cukor who again thought that it was wrong for me then after they'd looked for two years George thought it was right for me and it was at this point that my career had done the most dismal failure and I had gone from office of 150,000 dollars in a percentage and a piece of everything down to ten thousand dollars for a picture or no office at all I thought in six weeks my career dropped at La just before I did the Philadelphia Story well you probably weren't born I never think of yes I'm saying yeah well it's I've had my share and so David Selznick sent for me and he said we'd like to have you do a test I said now David I said you brought me into the business you and George and I'm not gonna do a test you know how I'd play it and you've gone out on a limb to find an unknown girl and you can't tell me you're gonna be stupid enough not to find one so we'll have this let us say this that with if you get within two days of shooting within two days of shooting and the man who's doing the costumes is has dressed me many times many times Walter Plunkett he could do the first dress in 48 hours you send for me if you said I have to begin the picture by a certain time you send for me and of course because I said you wouldn't have to pay me anything and I know you well enough to know you wouldn't pay me anything and you just pay me off it would be very cheap and that would break my heart and I have to protect myself from incidents which would destroy me and I don't want to have it announced you see and then sort of whatever happened to Katherine happen yeah and they found it Vivian hey when you see that film now do you have pangs no I haven't seen it since I never had pangs about anything once it's over that's eh oh yeah no pain no regret no pain well I mean no pang pang is a waste of time if they had then if they said miss Hepburn um we've we need celluloid and we're gonna have to melt down all the films you've made except one could you pick one well I'd say never the mold ha ha good answer what we have a message we'll be right back how do you decide if they're asking to do something too dangerous or not I know that they're actors who take pride in fact they fell down those stairs or they fell off it act as a sweet and silly yeah and I'm one of them have you ever had a debate with yourself where you thought oh hello I've learned to ride sidesaddle for Jack Ford and uh uh Mary of Scotland and wrote at a full run uh under the limb of the tree and heard Jack's voice way in the distance say Kate duck and I ducked otherwise I would have been as dead as a doornail and then I fell into the canal for David Lean so I walk backward in summer time and fall into a canal and of course the canal is a sewer I can't believe that this is how sewers yes noodles stupid what they politely called yes you and I used to go round because I hate to wear clothes you know I'd wear my old rags and then I'd put the makeup on in the street and leave my hair in curlers doesn't have a sombrero on or something so that I could get dressed and made up I've made up five minutes you know just five minutes so that then I didn't have to sit and get exhausted and what I did was I would go around the community and knock on the doors our beg your pardon could I change my clothes kneel front hall and practically always they would say yes and sometimes they give me a Roman bath so when I knew I was going to have to fall into the canal I went I cased the joint very carefully you see well trained in my youth of course no a good house from the bad one and all those years as a cat versus both those ears and and so woman had had a tub waiting everything everything and I thought well now I can't catch any disease so they would the audience was told very carefully misshapen is doing this on purpose she's an expert swimmer and so forth so I backed up just if I were backing up off this stage well then I saw the movie my feet went up in there my mouth opened wide my eyes opened wide and I never thought of my eyes ooh I brushed my teeth I washed my mouth I did all the things that one would imagine and I never thought of my eyes and I've had the eye infection ever since you've never never got fake the infection you never can you never can and wasn't anybody advising you you were silly to do this no no no no no oh no they never advise you that you're silly cuz then they have to hire somebody to do it look better and it doesn't look like anything I mean then you can't really do the scene I heard one of the hazards of the business I think I've seen that film several times the first time I saw that through it again and he's a brilliant man David Lee David Lean maybe my favorite oh it's brilliant brilliant nobody in the world like it brilliant man the new was more about film they really but they're 100 percent concentration or no yeah are you the kind of everstorm off the set feels no I stay there and fight it out you like that kind of behavior and the part of it I don't storm off is any better the man who goes off is lost yeah I mean unless he keeps walking energy you can't keep walking if you're in it anybody ever walk out on you and oh yeah and no no no I've never I found people amazingly a Yubel people are nervous you know they they I don't think I think most actors are absolute angels I think the whole all the sort of bad behavior comes from terror I think now I mean I was brought up in a school well once you said you do it you did it you know now I think this is too bad and once you say you're you're going to be an actor then presumably if you're going to do the thing eight times a week or whatever you're supposed to do you really have to it's a prison sentence because you got to play if you're sick because if you know play and you're you are a big starts an enormous disappointment to the audience yeah and I was brought up to play I played four months Nath with pneumonia on tour in much ado uh and couldn't get rid of it I don't have a temperature of about 102 or three every time I started know I'm tough yes and I have a very strong constitution and I'm drifter willing to do nothing but the one thing you'll see most people won't settle for that do you mean that well I mean most people tried think they can lead to or three lives I don't think you can I think at least I can't I can't it takes enough out of me so that I can't do anything else did you ever want to check it all even on this next when you were so sick with pneumonia yet ago and stays yes gotta be an easier way to go sure oh sure oh sure but I think I mean I think that goes that is discipline and I think that without discipline there's no way to live I mean it was that there's one person you can correct in life this I've learned and that's yourself I can't worry about your character but I can improve my own character you're not the kind then to say Jack Barrymore you're drinking yourself no no well no what did you no no no no no not not unless I could really be of some help if I could help him and I felt that I wish to then I would dedicate myself to that that's an old-time job to take care of somebody as an old-time job to bring up a bunch of kids and and try to make them it's an old-time job so what are the poor women gonna do you see they're not the man it's an old-time job for the man to make the living now I certainly think that there are job opportunities ought to be equal no question about that I can't see the difference between any of us can you can you imagine I can't see the difference between any race and a color and a sex but I do think that the women as opposed to the men are in a spot because they have the children and they have much more real interest in them than the men do when in a few wins I think by Nature yeah and if you haven't got it by nature and I haven't got it by Nature uh at all then don't have them you don't do what you're gonna do then do it don't don't do them both because you just get split in half but the man you can give you see a woman could give a man enormous confidence and we all lack it or a man can give a woman enormous confidence and stay at home and do the cooking somebody's got to give somebody some confidence somewhere there is not just one way to kill a cat there are many ways that are open but you can't have it all you cannot have it all and this notion that you're gonna have it all you can't hurt at all but to be able to realize that at an early age is it pretty good no I don't think so unless you're stupid you open your eyes you know I mean I realized that at an early age but and I settled it I knew absolutely I thought here's my mother as she did a lot but she had five in health and Niles nobody has any help now the women are really up against it you met her had how many children she had six and yet she was very interested a lot of talking on birth control not talking on women's suffrage and when she started out she said she could remember wheeling Tom and me in a baby carriage and thinking well here I am I've got a BA and an MA degree I'm supposed to be intelligent and Here I am am i a nursemaid to the rising generation now dad who was pretty smart guy felt this discontent and he said you know there's a woman named Pankhurst talking in town well the Pankhurst was the name of the great English suffragette who was speaking here Sylvia Sylvia Emmeline Pankhurst was the great one silver bankers - I think was this sister the daughter I'm not sure I think every Sylvia Pangos can tell you anyway can't tell you one was sylveon one was Emmeline and she was to visit us when I was a kid and the mother then made these speeches but she was there and daddy was there at tea time he didn't become a victim of being a surgeon you know he was there and they were there and I suppose it's why I never went out to dinner you know we lead led very home life very strong and that house has just gone out I gave it to the family gave it to the University of Hartford just two years ago people whose lives went to hell in Hollywood like Jean Harlow know today in all cases have no home life know what I mean by somebody's life goes to hell one doesn't know does one mean it you're awfully wise I had every possible advantage in if my life had gone to hell I would have had to be a dithering idiot you know really to a boat because I had every advantage and I had money enough also to be able to say no I didn't have anywhere near as much money as people think but I had money enough to be able to say no and I had was smart enough II had to get one of the first contracts which had a theater clause in it and since my first pictures were great hit the theater clause was an absolute whip hand and I could get whatever I want what is theater closed Santa Claus was to come back into a play oh and that was an unknown in that those days and that that method that was very important and I just I said I won't do it unless I get 1,500 bucks a week I was getting 50 at the time and they offered me everything David Selznick been right out you know five fifty seven fifty thousand twelve fifty and I said no thank you cuz I thought they got to know that you mean what you say so don't argue take it or leave it do it now that so that took a lot of nerve and I called up that mother and I said well they've come up to 1250 and I'm gonna turn it down and dad said that's right and then for lot of Zahn I handled my own business and when you handle your own business and don't have an agent that's the way you have to do hey that's good sorry yes or no but I think that's true of a lot of other things cuz I think life is thrilling in every possible direction but I know that I can't have it all I cannot have it all I haven't had it all I've had a wonderful life a wonderful time but I haven't had everything I'm going through that now at my age I think there's so many careers I'm not gonna have so many things I'm not gonna read so many things haven't places I'm never gonna see and it sort of paralyzes you oh no no no then do what you do just do it the best you can that's what's important and if it doesn't interest you enough and you have enough money a stop and do something else what can you say to comfort the people who didn't make it you know the old b-movie scene of the usually a British actress is making up for a great star and and a ragged old lady comes in and says you don't remember me but I used to be in this chair and I I had this dressing room and but I didn't go over and you've got it all you know those old that seems better I don't think that ever happens I've never maybe only in there maybe only in the movies ah but you know there are people who must wonder why the hell did hit burn make it and I didn't I mean like that's a great question and better looking and consumed but it isn't all luck people think honor is that a lot of it is luck yeah you see I've survived a long long time if you have the right kind of looks your right kind of voice you kind of stand for something just a little bit new and then you survive and and you change you see most people I figure have a reservoir that you walk into town with your little box of goodies you know and this is me and this is what I have to offer then after a while you've sold all those goodies and if you don't go away and fill up another box you're just repeating then you're just growing old and then for you know certain people there's a time when you get you're switching from you're too old to do this and you're too young to do that and you have to figure out what are you and what really interests you you see we're all creatures of habit we get in a rut and we run down that rut happiest bugs well sometimes you're bloody sick of what you're doing yeah and I've got the brains to stop you know and you could change change that's that's why they're really about this thing I thought can you think of any really good reason not to do it except that oh I'm so shy or oh my private life or oh are they gonna find out how boring I am you know and that is the only reason now in a sense not to do a television because it certainly as a method of expression which you know it has to be accepted as these things come along how do you feel about having your political views knowing someone with your strength you must be constantly I'm not much of a politician I was just say be on the affirmative and liberal side and on the new side yes yeah those don't be a no person yeah and that bad horse sent my family were very very left of center but I was always quoting them I'm not a great political expert myself did you suffer from that I'm in your community yes and oh that vase no that's why I got the own chip-on-the-shoulder and forged ahead you know cuz I thought I'll show him I think so I think it's a great help to be loved is very demoralizing could you've been hit yeah I want to want to stop and think about that could you be happy in a repertory company had you played every part you wanted never made a movie I guess what I'm asking is is the fame important that comes from being an international film star important is that Fame which I don't think you can answer that you never if you you have Fame uh you never feel that you have Fame if you have the brains of a flea but a thing better is something that's over back of you it ain't a head yeah good not a head at all and I mean if you've done it that's great but what are you gonna do tomorrow is the only thing that matters yeah we must take a message today set brain could you have happily married Humphrey Bogart it never occurred to me I did I did not marry him yes good clean that's right every time I see that I think I wonder if they could have been happy together was he a funny man to be around light-hearted serious food uh he was serious he was enormous they fair he was very much of a gent very well born frightfully good manners it's not a tough guy not at all the exact opposite he goes act opposite but he was one of the few actors he really liked his profession he really enjoyed winning the Academy Award he really was proud of being an actor he was doing what he wanted to do and I've asked this Betty McCall is a good friend of mine and I think he was really he was well trained he was proud of it this is not true of all actors I think Spencer would have liked to have been something else I swear that I read somewhere once that Tracy is mr. Tracy said this is a nod rather uncomfortable profession for a man I think he thought so and I think bogey was not at all he was Bodie was very secure within himself bogie drank a lot but I don't think I think you just like to drink I mean I don't think it wasn't escaped or anything else and he was on that trip to Africa Betty was with him and I was alone you'd say are you comfortable you feel all right you happy hotel all right now I say yes you know did you get down in real African rivers and waters and yeah take chances on getting bitten by various things uh well we went the water but goes a disease called Bell's hotsia so that you cannot get wet it's a terrible sort of inflammation of the kidneys or something like that that you can catch from there yes that you couldn't catch that's why Edwina booth died do nurse she did a picture thousand years ago and she caught that very bad disease they just said to me keep out of them note if you get your feet wet dry them and powder them justa this bug apparently enters anybody opening paws anything when you were fixing the boat and all of that stuff then that was in a student a lot of that was in the studio take yes but not a debt practically all of it we did down there I suppose you know the boat got wet on the inside and John Huston who was doing it to know a hell of a lot about River traffic's you know and the current would take us careening down and when we would do it going on a raft you know in mock-ups he'll have a part of the boat why we'd we'd get swept way over to one side and everybody would say duck can read lie flat otherwise we would have been straight right into the crocodile pit what's up thinking he was now heavily insured a zoom I don't know I think well everybody was sick didn't those leeches everybody get a big joke was on me because I was rather self-righteous and I thought well I'm traveling with two drunks I'd better not drink anything so I drank lots lots of the water lots of the water everything in that's based on never got sick uh Houston never got sick bogeyed never got sick and I nearly died of the dysentery because the water was poisoned it was a sensible Network you and your health measures that what does leeches I was really funny one one episode there I had I'm always you know busy getting to know people in a community that I know I'm never gonna be in again yeah so I made an arrangement I used to walk to work and that first shot in the church John looked at the church and it was a method they were Methodists and there they don't have steeples and he said well I want a steeple because it panned down so Methodists are no Methodists he waited while they built a steeple in the meantime - no a lot of people in the community and they're wonderful hardwood there so I went to a lumber place and I got a lot of samples of wood because my family wears in Sydney wood to take back you know one man said wouldn't you like to see a pre found I said I certainly would so we made a date by this time the pictures started my dysentery has also begun and I'm absolutely I'm playing the organ and they broke the record the only thing I knew how to play was lead kindly light so I was playing lead kindly light and they their sense of what is a note is different than ours so that it was total discord they'd found two black members in the ladies John and and so I couldn't go in there snakes snails listen and the the time of my watching the tree failed which was four o'clock because we lost the Sun by then was coming up and finally I said to John I have to go home and now I said I have a date which I have to keep will you keep it for many said Kate will keep your date we'll go and see them cut the tree down and I said be enthusiastic about it because the man is / and say that I'm dying so they all went see the tree cut down they drove out into the forest in jeeps got there the tree was half a sword through a terrible lightning storm came up hit the tree the tree nearly fell on instead of being pulled the other direction they got soaked they came home and I was lying dying you know of the dysentery with my little black man watching me and being sure that I was gonna leave this earth and they all came in drunk they went they went to the man's house who owned this lumber place drank all his liquor took all his clothes and cable in drivers had waked me up they kept the date nearly good nobody you know they do yes even bogey made that day then how would you explain that to their survivors one second were those real leeches on Bogert no no leech would I send a bogey Shana your man you're this great strong man just take a leech and put it on you they were repulsive looking so he said not me I'm not comforting leech well you know bogey was pretty skinny so everybody was making things and sticking them on bogey and they wouldn't they just fall off they were so bony every move nothing would stick twin finally they got something that stuck but it wasn't a real League she looked like leeches and they've occurred in my James name Joe Anderson seeing that Phil will be right back I'm talking with Katharine Hepburn a lady you can also see in American film theaters a delicate balance by Edward Albee is there a kind of actor you can't work with you know what I mean no I don't know what your main mr. Cavett what do you mean I meant well there was a time when there were people who were saying no all those method people I would never act with them and that sort of their people say in everything with Brando you know and yet see I don't think a Brando is a limited actor but I don't think he is limited actor he's a brilliant actor you know maybe slightly limited person but I don't think he is a brilliant actor yeah did that offend you and an Oscar was turned down for us so I guess thought it was silly why not withdraw your name just withdraw your name and nobody vote for you just dumb well maybe the idea came after he'd been not oh no then that's foolish then you see whether you're nominated you withdraw it doesn't make any sense it's just silly you were preferred what George C Scott did you said tell I mean he was really said it before he played the part you know he should have you're either in a business or they're not in a business and don't complicate it and you're not that important nobody is it's just foolish I think I should go and pick them up I shouldn't go and pick them up but I really just didn't but I don't admire myself for it I'm not that stupid and he's inside the big moral stand if I'm not running for a prize oh well what would you said if we weren't on television now understand it yeah that's only I know Joseph Cotten is in Ellicott balance yes lovely performance he's absolutely wonderful I thought maybe he had quit acting no no no no Richard no we never did act he always just does it I saw it he's great he's great he gives a wonderful performance true was true I saw you the other night in Philadelphia story did get plagued with questions like like for example when you get pushed in the face by Cary Grant you go flat on your back did you hurt yourself would you hit broke my back been broken up [ __ ] okay I don't even remember it you know that scene where he can come out with a golf clubs and you throw them down and smash him that's right at the beginning yeah yeah and he comes back he just pushes you in the face and you fall like a tree he's just plan you hurt yourself maybe no I don't think so I'm a pretty good athlete didn't bother me I don't even remember don't remember it no I don't remember it it's a wonderful movie have you ever seen is yeah yeah I had yes I saw it yeah see remember some more I don't say maybe no I don't have it your head so hard that you've forgotten it no I don't think so I do is I just are you sorry you never acted with Olivier well neither if it says dead yet even though he'll make yourself already wait now I think I speak for Mary as well as for myself let me don't they retake you'll be as red as I am in a minute are you oh how could you are you sorry that you have never yet acted with Olivier yeah I got a why did that of course not what you thought it you've still got a few good laps left in you as you said earlier you feel good lot left until get around the track thank you very much you're very encouraging this together I appreciate that I as long as we're as ones were on the subject of time and mortality I've never heard a film actor say the reason I make movies is that people will see me a hundred years from now oh it seems to me that would be one mind at all whether they remember they one minute it's a great business but greatest there is thrilling I don't know why they pay you it's fascinating fascinating it's great to say oh yes you would have to travel you get to do fascinating things you get to do some pretty boring ones at times but but most of those you can rise above but the immortality idea of film being there's no interest to me what no we are 2050 you know no and I can't imagine anybody being dumb enough to be interested I think the world goes on you know and I think that everything becomes different is there any chance I suppose that you know when we look at a movie that was made now 40 years ago they look silly is it just a minute I'm 40 years ago 50 yes you'd have to go up if it yes they don't look silly to me and and lillian gish married Pickford a lot of those pictures a lot of the comedies I didn't realize they were that that 40 years ago was that recent then I meant to say when is 1973 and I started in 1942 32 that's 41 years ago Wow that gets in everything and some of them were dull and some of them were interesting and I think that's true of you look at it maybe with a different point of view you look at silent pictures with a different point of view because they are different but some of them are thrilling I think let me I think it's a great medium let me make sharpen my point is they say there is film of duza for example but they say it looks ludicrous or is it a barren heart that wasn't early early is it no no to crust - it might not look ludicrous to me that's interesting you might see something well I would see her and I would see I mean ooh you're stupid if you're influenced by a costume or you're influenced by the fact that the mechanics of the thing weren't as well thought out there now we're very well protected hmm I hope yeah but I guess there's this wondering is there any way that a film like like summertime or African Queen would sudden would ever look dated imagine that it would I can't see that it would because it just seems timeless and it seems right well I think yes and I think I think the type of story that we did then is is uh is different I mean we were doing sort of hero stories weren't we and heroine stories that wasn't exactly heroine but it was the story of a woman now we're doing the deeply troubled sex life of most of us and I find this a bit know yeah are the films you won't go to because you know I have no sense of the virtue a rapper I'm just sick of whether somebody's impotent or whether you know I should think he would be impotent considering the life he's led I think it's reasonable to think that at 40 he's impotent and as a problem and I can't feel the little problem is terribly interesting to me you know yes I'm sure it's very interesting to him if not obsessing well he's been obsessed with the subject so he's died out yeah well let me go back a minute for one thing where their colonies in Hollywood when you went out there I know there was an English colony and then I've heard that there was a Russian colony I don't know anything about it I never went out you didn't join never went out anywhere ever except a George Cukor house I'm not sure that isn't why you survived no that's not true I think Hollywood was a wonderful place so don't try to lure me into no no knocking it knows it's a Deborah it doesn't make any difference where son it was a brilliant group of people yeah and they laid a fascinating life and they were dumb enough to turn down television so another group took the ball and ran in a certain direction and the world changed but suppose someone had said to you all come on Kate you gotta loosen up now I know you got to work tomorrow but let's go out and get drunk and sniff a little cocaine and that's what everybody's doing I don't believe everybody's doing that in the first place and certainly I wouldn't do it because I like to feel good and healthy yeah and I think that's a boa what's there not got plenty of energy without it cold sober I find myself absolutely fascinating you realize that that audience is pickled in here well we since you started talking off the street yeah we're drawing him off the street what but you've destroyed a lot of myths for me tonight um there aren't there weren't lecherous old goats waiting for the rejection girl on the pass it made my whole life Oh unless he was drunk well then he would have thought better of it the next time and I helped him home and departed I cannot believe that a man make a pass at me but what about all those nasty producers who said welcome in young lady no never ever never ever nonsense like I don't know why I say I can't believe that let me change that to I can believe that because not only because it implies a mature lawyer but that believed but nobody would make a pass with this well I know what you're paying you do trap a man and things he said maybe that was more trouble maybe that's it yes yeah you just blew your chances remain high I always heard that there were all those guys who chased the ladies around and that that was one of things I had to brace yourself for when you got out there without my god you get over in your corner the room and I'll stay in mine unless their face today but those nobody chases the ladies around so if you get what I mean right I do what's that it happen you have a theory about yes we're overpopulated what makes people has to be straight down turn out the way they do that way overpopulation the men get feminine and the women get masculine and it has to do with extreme embers of people because they don't get enough attention from their parents possibly so for the wrong oh no no no I think the population problem there was blame that on women you know if a young man has an overprotective mother there everything is blamed on women anyway yeah so what they're trying to put that right yeah and you hope they do I think they will yeah we've take a pause we will be right back after this pause stay with us feel I have to ask this everybody says that Garbo had something that no one ever had before a sense uh I'm willing to believe that this is not true no this is true is it yes I think so she had a real mystique and a real real gift for movie acting and what is it if I were in the room with her and their camera were there and she were here and I could see her on the set of Camille would I see that in that room yes I think you would know I think she was mysterious is mysterious have you met yes yes many times yeah she's charming and sweet and and and nice and funny but she's she certainly photographically had something that nobody else had I think that's what made her you don't become that famous for no reason to get the thing that she got pleasure from her career though she seems not to yes I think she did I think people who everybody has a different way of living you know they have to to uh some people have happy natures some people have I have a happy danger so I have a good time you know you do yes I do you ride you play tennis yeah play go yeah swim now I know you're a ferocious swimmer yeah you cook yeah if I tell you I work anyway and I work God clean the house and wash the dishes and do what everybody else does today you know how to clean a sink no mm-hmm and I enjoy it enormous way you know I'm not but I have a uh I'm a compulsive oval worker it's a let off to me so I enjoy that they said someone said once there we never no way of knowing if Garbo ever read a book have you read a book yes I've read a few yeah I can't read yeah are you a compulsive reader I'm a compulsive all the time or a job yeah I doubt if I've read anything on the current bestseller list for example and I just wonder if no I'm a funny reader I'd like to read like to read about people I wouldn't say I was a brilliant creature but I'm interested in people but I'm physically a very active person this this I get rid of a lot of energy that way that's why I don't have to take the stuff very often or the stuff you know cuz I have a lot of vitality yes do you mind if I reveal that there's no actual illicit drug over there at all but merely something that keeps the lip Sidra I think I don't I didn't want the audience to worry but I don't think they would when you when you were doing a lion in winter for example would you read historical biographies of the character yes I would I read everything about her that I possibly could read because I thought she was a fascinating character and I thought he was and I thought it was a wonderful relationship and I enjoyed doing that picture very very much with I worked for a number of years then I'd worked for 7 years 7 years and and I really enjoyed doing that picture with Peter he's a wonderful actor yes he said before anything for you sir we just got on great I hit him right a jaw once but like the job what did it best artifact at it we were sharing a makeup man and he wasn't working and I was working and I sent for the makeup man they said he's with mr. O'Toole he happened to be old tools makeup man so I just really got I was way down the basement of the monastery at MoMA jewel in Provence and finally I sent for him again and it didn't come so I walked upstairs and I got hysterical as I sold myself in a rage walking along I lost my rage and I opened the door of his dressing room and very satiny turned around and I bit him you want me to show you that Nabire I biffed him that way and then I ditched him that way and I said the next time I send for the makeup man send him so I went back luring with laughter I really socked him he was dumbfounded did him a lot of good and does everybody good to be hit so so so I got down and in no time at all Peter came down with crutches his leg old bound up his head all bound up and bandages came on the said thank you to build it then you caused an accident with your niece the other day sort of a dangerous person to know and sometimes I imagine I'm over enthusiastic yes do you mind if I mention that your niece was riding a horse and you applauded he scared the horse and she shot up into the air turned to somersault and fell on her back she was all right though yeah she didn't mind and made her the center of she could show how well she behaved not a tear we'll be back after this message with Katharine Hepburn stay with us and back talking to Katharine Hepburn a promising actress who recently had a job with the American film theater there's a legend about you that you can sleep when other people can yes what is the secret of that people's conscience well for those of us for whom it's too late for that what do you recommend huh you know people who watch this show particularly watch my watch late night television I'm desperate I get well yeah many times and it comes any you're getting me for that thing I said her yeah but many times they it's not the last thing they watch at night they step and and and they say if you got please get a man on her with jealous how to sleep and I I've had a sleep expert on but is there a secret do you lie in the same position I always thought that would help lie on your back I just think I'm an old bore not just go to sleep I lie down I go to sleep I do it I'm supposed to I come on the program I talk I'm supposed to talk I don't I go to bed asleep I have some food I eat it you're doesn't seem very I'm uncomplicated see the rather stupid I would I guess sir you're not a joiner obviously and avoided those cults and groups out in Hollywood and then in New York in the 30s there was that legendary group of which you know eventually in third but they were just a little bit older than I am I was their victim you were a target really yes I was a target because I was constantly making an ass of myself so they I fed them you think he'd have enjoyed them well if you were I did the ones I knew I enjoyed very much they were fascinating but it was a different again it was a different sort of a lingo do you know what I mean yeah it was a lingo just sort of maybe 10 years older than I just a different link oh does the way you're a different lingo we talk ok but we're really fundamentally a different lingo are we I feel very in tune with you some way asked my business that's right do you mean when you smile at me it's acting but on the job well then we're all right now I'm going to ask you something really really embarrassing and do you remember me as an actor at all hello do I remember you as an actor I've been told I should well we were in a play together said I you share ibly unkind well there's my answer oh did you say are you sure yes we were Stratford Connecticut together I was a child I was an apprentice I was still in school and I had one line in the Merchant of Venice I had a beard you were not even on the stage when I was on and I had one line in that play and I was able to ride home and tell everyone that I was playing with Katharine Hepburn in the summer I was really happy and what was the line oh I knew you'd do that gentlemen my master Antonio is at his house and desires to speak with you both and is that the way you said it oh wow I've never unfair I've never walked off on a guest you should go oh you're right you're right oh dear and I'm sorry you got the property and mom talk you can live a happy that is how I said it and uh huh and and how would you I had to say a line like that once and I got fired too did they keep you or let you go I they kept me possibly because you never saw my scene yeah yeah I was there only two men on stage at the time one night you fell down we came running on there was another scene where I was behind you in a crowd and they had cables and you went wham coming on yeah I don't remember that and your costume had snaps here and it drove them into your arm it was very painful and it bled and you went right through that scene I couldn't I looked I couldn't see a trace of pain on your face and afterwards you were really badly mangled never be beaten by a snap that's good it's matter of the theatres yeah no I don't think I think when you're really concentrating you don't feel anything like that at all I truly do believe that I think you just don't feel you're you're you that's why I think you can play when you're sick mm-hmm because it's it's a if you achieve your concentration it's like mesmerism you know you just uh yep terrible things are having two people on stage and they've gotten through it and then you often face yes no die yeah or die or die yes you're looking into the wings well I'm looking to see if there's a chair a chair if I made you die Oh somehow you'd like to go in some very theatrical man falling into the drum or you know man dying man go to sleep just go and not know that you went high shine can I ask you if you think you go anywhere after you die no I don't think you go anywhere I hope you just go just lie on the ground yeah happy at rest at last but at rest in place being conscious in somewhere no I don't have to rake anymore least no I just think it's just fine I think you you know I think that would be fine because I don't feel that that I feel never felt the slightest interest in the next world I think it's here and I think anything good that you're gonna do you should do for other people here and not do anything to make yourself have a happy time in the next world you know if it's there because really goes back to the Egyptian days when I was buried with all my jewels to show that I was rich and I'd like to stay rich yeah that affects the way you lead your life throw that conviction I mean if people have made their minds up on that I don't believe in religion I think religion that I believe in Christ and I believe in the example of a perfect human being that if he certainly proved that if you can live for other people away from yourself you will be happy and if you live for yourself you will be unhappy and you will then not be able to sleep or do anything else finally and and I think that that insofar as people live and I really believe this very passionately insofar as people do live with the other fellow in mind they have to be happy because it raises you up sort of golden rule I think so I really think so so and I think insofar as that can be observed after we have no notion as to what the next world is if there is one so there's no point in that but there's this it's always been that I hear a lot of people saying well what's don't know the difference in good and bad I know totally for myself the difference between right and wrong totally I know this because wrong makes me very uncomfortable and right makes me very happy and I don't think it's so very difficult to know when you're doing the right thing and when you're doing the wrong thing and I think each person the right thing the wrong thing varies mm-hmm but committing a stinking act to someone else should make you unhappy if it doesn't you're diseased yeah and you certainly am miserable and somebody said morality is self-evident absolutely self-evident a decent beige in relation to our fellow man is is the source of tremendous joy and tremendous lack of pain I mean you can rise above with the spirit who can rise above anything uh if you're totally dedicated as Christ was to someone else to other people to the notion of other people uh then he could rise above all pain and all sorts of things and I believe that I do believe that entirely and I think many many people practice it I think we are in the habit today of picturing and hearing about nothing but the dismal failures but I think many many people many women with children you know the young children or pit children who have a tremendous problem live the lives of absolute saints people do the most extraordinary things for each other people have done the most extraordinary things for me and then said to me aren't you wonderful and I think of God and are wonderful aren't you wonderful so that I think in so I think there is a way of you know I think man can get better and better and better that's why I'm interested in elevation and not sort of settling for the dismal sort of washout I find this a bore the sameness and of things you know no I mean no I mean the the person who obeys no rules does no goddamn thing for anybody else refuses to do anything for anybody else thinks entirely about themselves and wastes it and spends it and tosses it I can't be terribly interested in them we'll be back after this message with Katharine Hepburn stay with us can you tell a friend if he's lousy in a film or in a play how do your hand let you know that feeling well I think it's a great bore to could to tell someone you could have been better I hate people who come back and don't tell me I'm wonderful how can I do about it if I've done it if I've done it you meant to be good well I mean obviously I was trying as hard it's not good yeah I think it's terribly you know I think that's the biggest boa in the world have you noticed that I haven't asked you any of the things that like do you smoke pot would you appear nude in the movies and what el and what's your most embarrassing experience I hope you appreciate the absurd things that you usually ask me well thanks a lot I assume it is a it was hard for me hunter Terra thought I did make an exception thank you very much I want to ask you something boy can I mention Betty Davis his name one more time yes you may I asked her once if she could detect the parallel between how her private life was going and how her work was going you know that in an actor's life is the one affect the other adversely or favor well I think it no and usually favorably the worse your private life yeah the pleasanter it is to go into a land that never Neverland to get away from and then I feel very very happy to never Neverland is so most actors I think fundamentally can use the miseries I think that's why I'm so happy they mean some people can't use the miseries you know I think in any kind of an artist generally can use the sorrows and the miseries for creative effect terrible thing to say because it's not very you know flattering to their characters but it is true but it makes you lucky to be an artist isn't it in a way because other people don't have any place to you well I think you're lucky hottest well-paid especially this kind if you can call it not just forgive me are those keep your own yes they're the some of the sorts the most famous teeth in the world I suppose in there there's a crooked bottom one but it's that doesn't show so much but every man it's lucky they're my own cuz I show them all I saw a picture of Wally used to me roaring with laughter and you could see the wisdom teeth they're my own - boy your wisdom teeth forum what good are they well they're just waiting to hold everything ends what is your size by the way do you mind revealing that who what actors are you taller than well I'm five seven and little Plus that makes you taller than Robert Taylor taller than yesterday nuts all er they know ladies I I was tall and I was got rid of several times cuz I was just told and now I'm short so when I play with the young girls and I want to dominate them I have to have them walk on the down side of the hill or off the step or something because I like to be taller than they are were you taller than Trish yes well I was no no no no what wasn't Spencer was about 511 huh but I mind you when you put on high heels you know there you go you'll have an advantage and he slumped and I stood up straight what else did they say was wrong with you in those days practically everything voice well voice uh Tallulah Bankhead and sin Decatur's most terrible voice I've ever heard you go into a theater and you nearly die for the first five minutes and when you come out if anybody else talks you can't stand it cuz they're so dull but stop who tells it Ida voice it sounded like Nichols dropping into a slot so it's loud and clear but like anything if you live long enough as I have you get an affection for something that irritates you cuz you miss it when it's gone so where's that noise you know can you disguise it if you had to if you couldn't call up a friend and be someone else and fool no I don't try to I just say hello and if I don't want to talk to them I say I'm sorry this is our sister what can they say I can tell you're not cuz I have two of them dear sisters sound like you though would I know yes yes yeah one sounds better and one sounds worse yeah well by the way did you or did you never know which that's right I was just going to say I you know you've covered everything there uh-huh did you or did you not do commercials for hearing on the radio once never did a commercial and if I had done a commercial I wouldn't have done one for herring I know there was an imitation of your winter yes I was have you were but not very good imitations no one's ever done but some that I don't really do that no not really I don't my name's Eva Lovelace LOV l AC e I added the lace do you smoke I do rarely I do what they imitate that's how they say about 90 years ago in the old calla lilies line calla lilies are in bloom again such a strange flower I carried them on my wedding day and now I place them here in memory of someone who is dead that was the line while you're here can I ask you one other thing during the blacklisting period in Hollywood I find that period entirely incomprehensible I read as much as I can about it there's a recent book by mr. camphor on the subject and I just wonder two things better never satisfactorily explain why people put up with the brutal rotten treatment that they got from the committee and all on that side well I think they had to because I think it was popular anything that's popular just so it's popular to be anti Nixon it was popular to be terrified of the Communists and the the papers sort of took the sides I mean there were a lot of very reactionary papers and they give a headline to the fact Hepburn communist was a favorite cry your name didn't come up oh yes yes my name came up because I did a speech about censorship Oh in in movies I've read that speech somewhere yes against it well I did two or two things and and that was in the Gilmore Stadium and I'd like a silly I thought of wearing a white dress and then I thought they'd call me the dove of peace so I wore a pink dress and joy pick that up and then they were very cagey about me for a while and then tried to force me to sign all sorts of things and I wouldn't but it was very difficult I mean it was fine with me because if I didn't work I still had money enough to live and but it was very very tough on people who had families who may had to support and they really literally could not get a job some were literally killed by absolutely killed by yeah can I ask you how mr. Tracy felt on that subject he just said remember who shot Lincoln and he didn't go in from politics an actor that's right there's something about you I know that as long as I've been in this game people have said and I suppose as any this was any chance you could ever get Katharine Hepburn and I've always said I assume not cuz I know years ago I worked in talk shows and you've uh at one point said I have a quick answer for that no actors belong and it's unbelievable to me I guess really we're sitting here I have a feeling I'll wake up and they'll say oh you know and they'll say we got to get to work and by the way Hepburn isn't gonna show up um I don't know what that is I've fallen in love with you at least seven times that I can count in the past hour so continue before I come apart I I think we should take a message we'll be back I'm so grateful to your you for being here and I'm looking forward to the American film theater project a delicate balance Edward OB is your play yeah and I guess we mentioned earlier all Scofield Paul Scofield to be in that and they also have Olivier and the three sisters and rhinoceros and homecoming and full-length The Iceman Cometh yeah the real four hours well the time has come to say goodbye to you and I can't think of anything I'd less rather say to you I have never enjoyed anything more than this in my life and you know something funny what I've enjoyed it too have you really yep well that's great I have I didn't know whether I would or not but I have well I'm glad and I'm glad for their handful of people who got to sit in the studio to see you do this unexpectedly the way you did I know your feelings about privacy I I don't know what to say I realize the rarity of this event and I'm damn proud they would say that I know you and thank you for being so generous and so well you've been you can't do it alone so thank you very much we'll see you and good night I tell you a little story years ago I did a show on PBS series in which I had four or five great songwriters like Howard Dietz no no Howard eats his partner Schwartz of alan jay lerner paul simon was there and the great SantaCon and during the show i trying to show off some knowledge i had just gained said i guess everybody knows that when a songwriter wrote a song the only thing that would be heaven for him would be the Frank Sinatra would record it and everybody nodded after the show Sammy Cahn the great Sammy Cahn came over said um I feel a little funny about one thing I'm that thing about Sinatra for whom he was working I guess at the time it isn't quite true there's one person in the world whose musicianship is even greater than Frank's and I said who could that be and he said Fred Astaire I thought he was kidding I hadn't paid much attention to it but if they couldn't get Sinatra they were crushed if they could get Sinatra they were delighted but if they could get a stare they were thrilled listen maybe you'll see because he does a wonderful medley on this show that will give you goose flesh it does me Hermes pan the great choreographer first they're in the movies said it was tedious and rehearsals because if Fred missed a step whether it was simple one or complicated one he would send everybody out while he did it a hundred times that may be a key to perfection the best thing I think about Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers at that time in that era is that that was when Americans were glamorous to the whole world the ultimate of sophistication Fred and Ginger and other phenomena of that time the entire world ended and worshiped admired and loved America things change don't they well anyway let's have a nice time right now if the gentleman whose name has been synonymous with sophistication for decades and synonymous with elegance Fred Astaire but dick cavett roll with special guest Fred Astaire ladies and gentlemen Dick Cavett you

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Id: h1e4330P_EM

Length: 74min 20sec (4460 seconds)

Published: Thu Nov 05 2015