Karl Kohlhase: An Evangelical Who Became A Catholic - The Journey Home (10-30-2006)

good evening and welcome to the journey home program my name is Marcus Grodi your host for this weekly program which I have the great privilege of introducing to you men and women because of their great love for Jesus Christ came home to the Catholic Church they have to take a whole lifetime and summarize it into about 25 minutes but we appreciate your prayers because they've got a lot to say and a lot to talk about how God has changed their life our guest tonight is Carl Cole he's we list him as a former Protestant but he's he touched into a couple buckets on his journey and he'll tell you about that in a moment but I want to remind you that you are an essential part of this program so I'd like to give us a call you can do so at one eight hundred two two one nine four six o or if you're outside North America you can call us at 2:05 to 7 129 80 or you can send me an email at journey home at ewtn.com Carl welcome to the journey home Thank You Marcus you come a long way south from that the cold Tundra of northern Minnesota right northern Minnesota yeah I mean you're far north in Minnesota bout three and a half hours north of Minneapolis so how close to Canada hour oh so you're just you're there yeah practically Canadian I was gonna say your canoe country but now it's all frozen isn't it it was everything that it's getting there forgot our first snow already so all right what's good to have you here it's good to be here let me get out of the way and invite you to share with the audience a little bit of your early spiritual journey well I grew up Lutheran and was very blessed to have a mother who faithfully brought us kids to church every Sunday made sure I was baptized confirmed gave me my first Bible when I was confirmed even though I sat on the shelf for many years until I was older but you know I had that kind of an upbringing and very very thankful for that and when I was in high school I kind of turned away from my faith and picked up the guitar when his about 12 years old started playing in rock bands and and just by the time I was just 10th 11th grade lived a typical life of a rock and roller I guess and and which is contrary to the gospel and in almost every way you know what a the lifestyle that had chosen and it wasn't a conflict for you at the time right good well it wasn't because I didn't know that God had any demands on my life at the time or didn't know that he even was interested in in me following him I guess I don't know if I if it wasn't bringing preached at church or I just wasn't ready to hear it you know but when I was 18 a senior in high school things started to really change for me when for instance I would go to church a Lutheran Church and I would feel really guilty about you know and that was kind of a new thing it was I was like this is a double standard for me I'm sitting here in church and totally living contrary to everything I'm hearing and that was a new thing and now I realize you know the Holy Spirit was just confronting with me with my sin and saying repent I love you I want you to come and so I wanted to know more about who God was and I picked up that Bible that my mother had given me for confirmation and start reading it and when I got to the Gospel of John in particular and I read that Jesus was saying come and follow me and I'll make you fishers of men those words just absolutely jumped off the page at me and it was that's exactly what I need to do I I knew that at that point that Jesus was alive it wasn't just a story from antiquity you know he was the living Savior and he was calling me personally to follow him and and that's the decision I made and I said Lord you know all the the life I've lived which is contrary but I I believe in you and I want to follow you and I started taking some very drastic steps and and my confounded my friends they were like what happened to Carl you know that's not the Carl we knew and but I was just so exuberant about what I had found I found life eternal you know through Jesus Christ and was very excited about that so I was I started looking for a ways how can i fulfill that second half of Christ's call you know he says follow me and I'll make you a Fisher of men and being a musician I thought well I could use that to proclaim the Gospel so I called a friend of mine who I used to play in bands with and I had heard that he had a similar conversion and he was in an Assemblies of God Bible College down in Minneapolis so I called him up and said hey you know I'm thinking about starting a Christian rock band and and he says well that's that's a great idea but really I feel called to study to be a preacher but there's plenty of musicians down here won't you come and and so I decided well that sounds good so I went to this Assemblies of God Bible College didn't have any idea what I was getting into from Lutheran I don't even know how different it was I hadn't no clue you know I didn't know what what charismatic s' were or anything about it so I got there and it was a little it was odd and yet I felt I felt good about being there especially because there was there's a lot all of a sudden there was a lot of people my age who were just as excited as I was about proclaiming Christ there were a lot of people my age that wanted to get into the scriptures and deeply wanted to spend time in prayer wanted to get on the streets and and tell the homeless you know tell anyone who listened about who Jesus was and so I you know I was I was hooked this is this was good for me I was in the Assemblies of God Church for maybe two years and started to become a little bit disillusioned because for me the charismatic movement tended to lead me towards a kind of a roller coaster ride emotionally whereas when I was feeling ecstatic it had some sort of ecstatic expression or something fluttering in my heart then that must mean I'm close to God but in those dry times when he weren't feeling anything and you weren't you know it wasn't there it was like Lord where are you yeah I don't feel you anymore you know so that was real problem well at about that time in one of those lower states I met a pastor from the United Pentecostal church and they had I've now realized they have a lot of really odd doctrines and far-off bases but you know at the time I was young and and disillusioned and this pastor was very very good at opening up the scriptures and saying this is look at this person this person this person how it all fits together and for instance they didn't believe in a Trinity now which is probably their major heresy but interestingly no I wasn't there very long one of their arguments one of the chief arguments Marcus was you know we're just trying to reclaim the faith from of old this is what the first Christians taught and believed as I said yeah well I want to learn about that so I picked up some church history books and started reading the writings of clement and Polly Clark Polycarp and Ignatius and his first and second century believers and I was just blown away you know not only did they have they didn't use the word Trinity but they had very Trinitarian ideas there was Father Son and Holy Spirit and yet not three gods one God but what surprised me even more was that there was infant baptism there was bishops and you know a succession of bishops through the laying on of hands there was a profound well articulated belief in the real presence of Jesus in the Eucharist they believe that that is the flesh and blood of Christ and I thought how can this be this sounds are really really Catholic that I mean through and through these first and second century believers sound Catholic to the core and I hear I have been taught for however many years that these were just inventions of the Dark Ages you know so I wasn't quite ready to become a Catholic at that point so I went back to the Lutheran Church just to find something familiar you know I knew I wanted the Trinity again let me ask you said we did the concept that the conception of possibly becoming Catholic really enter your mind at that point or Wyatt did it did that dad I actually grew up with an idea of an anti-catholic perspective no okay I didn't grow up with one but you know having been it I think in my years as in Assemblies of God I think that there were some strong very strong anti-catholic sentiments there I wasn't introduced to Jack Jack chick tricks when he literally contracts those love gospel tracts you know which are very very anti-catholic and so I was confronted with that in the particularly United printed Pentecostalism which would be anti Trinitarian oh yeah perspective so you would go so that there absolutely so the thought flitted around a little bit but quickly went quick quickly went at in fact I had got to even speak with a priest and was sort of disillusioned because he was of the opinion well what God really wants is for me to be a good Catholic and for you to be a good Protestant and I thought well if that's what you feel about it I guess you know I guess I don't need to be a Catholic so I just went back to Lutheran Church just to have some familiar roots and met my wife-to-be who was a member of the Evangelical Free Church and when I visit our church I've really fell in love with those people it really warm caring people love the scriptures loved God exuberant praise and wonderful fellowship and so that really felt home to us we were married and had our first son and decided that I was going to study for the ministry so we went out to Portland Oregon to a conservative Baptist Seminary out there and studied for a couple years and had an opportunity to go back to that church in northern Minnesota Evangelical Free Church to become a full-time director of youth in music ministries so and absolutely I really loved that I mean spending here I had the opportunity of spending those 40 hours a week doing what I really love to do which was proclaim Jesus and and lead others to faith so you had started that rock band way back when I never seen I never did get a chance to I was so excited about just going out on the streets and evangelizing to the homeless and whoever would listen to it that I never got a chance to do that musically become a big part of your proclamation of the gospel during those years right right I you know I come to school for music and studied orchestration and yeah things like that well before we move on though I want to look back a little bit because it it fascinates me how often I hear the similar stories about especially Lutheran's maybe Anglicans but Lutheran's and I was kind of in that same bolt kind of you baptize catechized confirmed but then quickly leave it hmm and part of the frustration appearances will you know what could I have done differently and like you said it's hard to know why it didn't catch right but if you look back any thoughts on what was missing or was it just not your timing in God's plan at that point well I think it could be that you know I really honestly don't know if it was because it wasn't being preached from the pulpit or if it just was I was not ready to hear it yet I do know that you know when I was young the pastor that was there was very very he was a good gospel preacher you know and some of the later pastors I think maybe had lost sight of some of that so I wasn't hearing a call to conversion a call to following Christ like I said I don't know if it was because if lack of preaching or was just but you also then mentioned earlier you know all of a sudden you know you're feeling a bit of guilt where's that come from open the Scriptures verse jumps out at you I mean to me that all emphasizes the power of grace and part of the reason I wanted to mention that is I know that from reading emails and letters of viewers there are a lot of parents and grandparents out there that get discouraged because their children went through the same journey you know they came you thought we put him through the system of the church thought they got the education did all that we could and then they left it's hard to put a finger on why it's too easy to start blaming but sometimes it's just this timing of God's grace so that's why we never give up praying right absolutely you just never know when grace might touch someone just in the same way touched you reading the Bible and all of a sudden boom I could be singing a piece of music or or watching a movie you never know how God might turn your heart towards him mm-hmm but there you are doing what you had dreamed of doing your teaching with music and you know things seem they're just cruising along but then all of a sudden you start your heart starts opening up towards the Catholic Church woman how'd that happen what I look at it it's sort of in three phases my conversion of the Catholic Church and the first time that I considered becoming a Catholic was after being involved in that unit knighted Pentecost group and they were saying hey you need to look at the early church you know they they didn't believe that way and I saw that well they were thoroughly Catholic and just about every way and so I was the first time I considered it did United Pentecostal friends say anything about the early church fathers I mean what was their view of them I don't know why I don't remember even how they responded to that I think they were like just kind of astonished that I actually did the homework and said well you're saying that the early church is like that you know what let me go look and when I did look I was just dumbfounded that why this this is Catholic through and through and it really surprised me too that these were men who had some of them whom had sat under the Apostles themselves you know we're taught by the Apostle John or just amazed me the second time surprisingly that I considered the Catholic Church was of all places I was at the conservative Baptist Seminary and here we were in theology class and we came across the Gospel of Matthew where Jesus says to Peter then Simon he says you are Peter you are a rock and upon this rock I will build my church and the gates of Hell will not prevail against it and my professor said you know I'm kind of going on a limb on this one and my fellow professors don't like me even bringing this up they would much prefer that we look at when Jesus says upon this rock that we look at the faith of Peter or we look at Christ who is the cornerstone or he says in my study the most plain rendering of that in the original languages is that he's referring to Peter as upon this rock I'll build my church and he just explained that Peter had a certain primacy among the twelve if you look in the book of Acts you know on the day of Pentecost it was Peter stands up to preach that first sermon or he takes a prominent role in in the council's in the book of Acts and but he was quick to dismiss the whole idea of apse taluk succession you know he said if Peter was the first pope he was the last Pope as well you know and of course I haven't studied church history I knew that that wasn't really the case there was a succession in fact Paul even mentioned to Timothy that through the laying on of his hands that he was going to be installed and that he should you know teach others to surgery like you too to do the same and so I knew that there was a succession there not that long am I supposed to be a Catholic but I quickly dismissed it and the reason being was I thought like this must be a temptation you know I'm here studying to be a Protestant minister I think maybe maybe Satan just wants to get me off track so I kind of pushed it off to the side had an opportunity to to be in full-time ministry and so went forward with that but you know that didn't mean that I closed the Bible you know so every time I'd come across these verses where you know Jesus would say this is my body this is my blood or unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood or Jesus saying to his apostles on the day he was risen from the dead he says whoever sins you forgive they'll be forgiven I thought who does that that's that's only in the Catholic Church you know and I just couldn't I couldn't deny it anymore and so I started to wrestle with God on that because I really didn't want to become a Catholic at all for a number of reasons but primarily because I was married and was in full-time ministry that was my livelihood and I really had placed all my eggs in one basket you know I I'd studied music which isn't it doesn't have many career options and I had studied ministry and I knew that if if I was a Catholic that you know there's my employment opportunities right there and then also I think it I knew it would bring a lot of dishonor and discord for my family because you know all of a sudden I would go from oh look at Carl here's a man of God and you know there's a level of esteem there all of a sudden all those people that would once have looked up to me was now kind of shake their head and say poor deceived fellow you know he is gone off the deep end and so I didn't want to do that and and I was as praying God if you if you want me to become a Catholic you're gonna have to give me some sort of a sign nothing nothing big maybe if you just come down to the cloud or or send Mary or her or the Apostle Paul he was a hero of mine and and that never happened and but I kept praying and praying and God I'm gonna need a sign and one day was when I was praying that it was as if I heard this question saying Carl did you need a sign back when you were 18 years old and you first trusted Christ and I said no all I needed was the Word of God which was I knew it was the truth I was absolutely convinced of it and that's all I need and then it dawned on me well that's what God is saying to me you didn't need it then you're not gonna need it now you're gonna have to step out in faith and so I I made a deal with the Lord I said God if I can be as convinced of the Catholic Church as I was back then and still AM that Jesus is the Son of God risen from the dead I'll become a Catholic it'll become a matter of of obedience not a matter of preference you know it's not like choosing chocolate or vanilla ice cream this is a matter of obedience no because I'll be convinced and so that was my prayer and I and I decided what I was gonna do is I'm going to throw every question I have at at the church and I'm gonna try to debunk it because I did not want to become a Catholic so I threw every question I could at it and found that the church was an impenetrable fortress it just had an airtight logic to it and every question that I throw at it I would find an answer and it was like oh yeah if I open my heart and look at it with from an from an honest perspective and really give it a chance then it's this just makes absolute sense through and through and so it's a cohesive whole the whole argument makes absolute sense so I got to that place where I had to hold up my end of the bargain you know I told the Lord if I would be that convinced that I would I would obey Him and so that's what I did and told my wife that that was my intention to become a Catholic turned in my resignation and and Pentecost of 2000 entered into the church Wow haven't looked back nope in some of the reasons that you were drawn to the Catholic Church because the Eucharist and some of the other beliefs very similar to your Lutheran back did you ever consider during that part of the journey not only earlier you were Pentecostal and then you were evangelical free of returning to your Lutheran roots had that been a logic well like I said when I had been involved with the Pentecostal group I did go back to the Lutheran Church for a while just because I wanted something familiar and I knew that I wanted someplace that was Trinitarian and had some some solidity to it but no I really was absolutely convinced yeah that's what if you dealt with the distinction is the unique distinctions I mean there they could look real similar but many of the key issues they aren't oh yeah yeah god those are questions I threw at it as well I mean looking at justification by my faith alone you know and realizing that the only place that that is mentioned in the Bible is in James which says that we are not justified by faith alone which you know how can we how can I believe a doctrine where it explicitly says that that's not not true we're able to continue using your music okay momen it's hard to know when you're in that side of the Tiber River you're gonna jump over what you're gonna do yeah it deaths been an essential part of keeping me sane I think really because here I was in the ministry full-time spending 40 hours a week proclaiming Jesus doing what I love to do and when I when I gave my resignation I've needed to find a job and so I had to take whatever came across my path and ended up doing marketing for a snowmobile company which was I mean it's a thousand miles apart you know Here I am selling expensive toys to two men and all day long literally I would sit at my desk do my work creating websites or whatever sighing you know just feeling the emptiness of I used to spend this I'm proclaiming Jesus and now I am selling snowmobiles which was very very disappointing for me but what I decided to do was and this is the grace of God really providing I took my music and I created a CD and decided that while I use some of these new marketing abilities that I was learning this job you know creating websites and whatnot I said I'm just gonna put it out there I had first tried to go to churches Catholic churches and it was told by a number of priests you know Catholics just don't do concerts which which I've come to realize now you know it's not really the case but some do but some do you know some do a little hard marketing job yeah yeah so but I've been able to get get those CDs out on out on the internet have for now released where people can download the mp3s for free and and for me that was a real gift of God because all of a sudden while now I'm still working a full-time job but I'm able still to proclaim Christ which is well there's an outlet for that you know so it kept me sane well you want to say your website for those that are listening on radio sure it's wwk for communications comm that's number four k4 thank you careful and at the end of tonight's program I'm gonna do something a little different instead of the usual closing tune that you're familiar with a journey on program we're gonna at the end of the program play a little snippet of one of your songs right that's right okay we'll talk about that later let's take a break we come back we'll take some phone calls and email questions for anything back a moment welcome back to the journey home our guest tonight is Carl Cole he's let me give you the phone numbers again so that remember again your calls are very important for us we have a number of calls and emails but it's still a little more room if you have a question 1-800 two two one nine four six all outside North America two oh five two seven one two nine eight oh or you can send an email at journey home at ewtn.com before we take our first email I want to mention something that Carl's experience reminds you of something that I often have said but I want to make sure that that we need to pray for the converts that come into the church with great gifts and experiences and opportunities and how God will continue to use their gifts when they become Catholic that's not always obvious especially when you come from a different way churches operate into the Catholic Church how do you understand the system how do you get people to know what you can do and what you'd like to do so that's a constant issue with many of our guests as it is with Carl so for those of you watching whenever you could see place in your local churches that need musicians and youth ministers and all kinds of opportunities there are lots of both converts as well as you might call to reborn Catholics people have gotten on fire for their faith and want to be involved in some kind of apostolic work there are plenty of opportunities and one of the most common things that John Paul emphasized was the need for the laity to remember their call to the apostolic ministry and that's what we're with frontline ministers are the the laity in the church so lots of people with gifts we need to see what doors are available for them and like Carl let's take our first email is comes from Doug Marcus and Carl I'm not Catholic and I'm still having a difficult time trying to understand praying to Mary but I cannot seem to get any level of comfort in my current spiritual state either so I'm still searching many many thanks for your broadcasts it is so evident that you have a pastor's heart Doug thanks free email first of all I want to ask everyone that's watching to pray for Doug a lot of people like that on the journey and I appreciate your email very very much and we've been there I mean we know the struggle what about Mary for your own journey right Mary was was one of the hardest things for me - it was a hardest obstacle for me to overcome in fact even after becoming a Catholic you know it was hard for me to embrace her role in my life i feei liking it - you know after 15 years of eating onions you know you can brush your teeth once and you're still not going to get rid of the taste that aftertaste kind of lingers but I've since really learned that Mary and all the saints that not only does God permit us to talk to them but that it's really God's desire if you look at the Apostles the Apostle Paul for instance you talk about that God is preparing for him a crown you look at revelation where Jesus says those who overcome are going to share my throne they're gonna have Thrones of their own and and power and Dominion and authority and so - to realize that not only does God permit it but it is God's will to heap glory and honor upon those who were faithful to him and endured suffer suffering and hardship for his sake he wants to heap glory and honor upon them so when we participate in that we're really doing God's will that's helped me thank you very good Mary is a difficult barrier for so many convert especially coming from backgrounds where Mary it's hardly ever mentioned right especially proud of your Pentecostal background right where he was probably not other than Christmas Marie was probably never mentioned at all it's common mm-hmm let's go to mark from California hello mark what's your question for us tonight before I make my question here I just want to say how truly amazing this to show is Marcus what you've done with this ministry is just absolutely incredible for non Catholics and Catholics alike the way that you bring forth the truths of the faith through this warm is just it's unlike anything we've had you know in the past and for Catholics to be able to see this along with non Catholics to bring this out all the truths that you bring out in this way is incredible well Marc let me say thank you for that but it's always the guests you know they're the ones that share their powerful stories and you know encouragement to us all so praise God for the the courage of the guests to get out and share this story thanks Marc right what else you got yes I was just gonna ask Carl to maybe bring out a one of his most memorable stories from the last several years about bringing his newfound faith to some of his old friends some of his old Protestant friends that Whitney was specifically theologically when you've gone into scripture readings and you've talked about the Fathers of the Church and you've brought this to any friends I'd love to just hear an interesting story about how maybe you converted someone or her you made really someone think about what they were currently doing and you know them looking at you and saying maybe I need to reconsider I'd like to hear a good story along those lines thanks guys okay thanks for your question right yeah I don't have a whole lot of experience with people just up and converting because of what I've what I've said to them you know but maybe maybe you know seeds are planted here and they're just by by seeing what I was willing to give up and and do just for the sake of my conviction you know so it that's the way it is with the evangelism sometimes I think you just you're sowing seeds and sometimes you don't see that fruit for many years to come well your your life again as an example of that I mean you had that awakening later when you opened up the book of John and all sudden that verse but you had had many seats planted earlier mmm-hmm right the grace of baptism your confirmation your catechesis lots of Sunday School classes your mother that loved you and let you know faith lots of seeds were planted there that came alive and that's just like this is sharing a bit about the faith with some of your friends I mean they might be shocked and ready to eat you with a baseball bat at first but later you never know right that's true it's just right alright let's go with guy your email dear Karl what Catholic inspired you the most on your journey to the Catholic Church god bless guy thing while your program Marcus is really been a help for me because you know I'll watch your program in think okay I'm not going crazy here there there are other Protestant ministers who have considered Catholic faith and made the same same step we know which was very very helpful for me because I knew that I wasn't totally in left-field there but I think that the writings of the early church fathers were really a clincher for me especially Clement and Polycarp and Ignatius and you know I think you have it on your website to be steeped in in what how do you know it's from Cara John and Ricardo Newman to become deep in history as it ceased to be Protestant and in the sense of when you really understand right and you read those early father's I mean that's there I've been awakening for so many mmm-hmm on that and nowadays you can go to the internet and find the you know the church fathers are there you can download them and read them they're available to everyone and that's the beauty of them mmm okay mark from Alabama hello what's your question for us tonight hi Marcus hello mom I wanted to thank Carl for his very compelling and personal story and so many of your guests are seem to be academics and pastors and able to use their intellect to find their way into the church and my wife and I have many conversations with the neighbors and friends who are outside of the church and in Protestant denominations and without without the that that heavy firepower of the the gift of the intellect to be able to reason their way into the faith or read the church fathers how are they able to make the journey home and how can we help them to do that good question mark thank you very much for watching the program too so I guess the way I would approach that is that you know sometimes on some difficult questions I'll just say because that's what the church teach us you know I don't have any any stronger theological point than that it's just that's what the Church teaches and I've realized a long time ago Marcus that I don't make a very good Pope unto myself you know that that old notion of all you need to come to the knowledge of the truth is a sincere conscience and the Holy Spirit in the Bible I don't think is it's really accurate because I've been convinced of opposing doctrines using that very same approach you know so being I've failed that at being a Pope were you involved with brought up Lutheran you were simile of God United Pentecostal mm-hmm and then later Evangelical Free all four of those Christian traditions they don't use word tradition but you know believe in just what you said following your conscience guided by the Holy Spirit reading scripts you'll come to truth but those four teach radically different things right you know and so it makes it hard and this is a great question mark let me address it also because it isn't Karl's or my or Scott Hans or many of the other converts you've see it's right isn't our great intellect that isn't yet it's first of all grace that God awakened us to see something see either there was a problem where we were or to see an answer that we never saw before it was a gift of the Holy Spirit but also on a more mundane level it was seeing data that we never had before sometimes that's it you know Karl you had the date of the early church fathers that you never saw before because no one showed it to you and ever read them and many of those our neighbors who won't consider the Catholic Church part of it is they've never received the data no one's ever told them what the Catholic Church really teaches you said what the Church teaches part of that's a confusion sometimes they think the church teaches we worship Mary Church has never taught that sure just taught that's a heresy to worship Mary so what does the church really teach about Mary well then that's we can share with them what the Church teaches and we live at a great time because now we have the Catechism we have the compendium of the Catechism which simplifies it we've got great websites like ewtn.com or go to CH Network dot o-- r-- g-- places or you can let your friends hear what the church really teaches and course that's one of the reasons ewtn is here to encourage your friends that turn the radio or the television to hear stories like carl that maybe that'll soften they're under their previous prejudice against the church to become open to what the church really teaches but it's all part of the our evangelistic ministry let's go with our next email rachel from texas Marcus and Carl I am a ninth in ninth grade and during world geography Kratt excuse me class the teacher asked how would you explain the Trinity one God in three persons to someone who doesn't believe it thanks Rachel for your easy question great question Rachel I think I'm gonna leave that one to you though it's a it's very difficult to explain it's beyond our our understanding Rachel you know it's God is a mystery it in beyond beyond words really yeah other than we know that there is a father there is the son there's a Holy Spirit and there's only one God I mean that's as close as we can get we do the best we can the early church fought over a great many of alternative explanations in the fourth century and that's one of the reasons why every Sunday we proclaim the Nicene Creed all those different phrases one God true God from True God begotten not made one in being with the father these every one of those phrases is to counteract another way of of trying to understand that wasn't quite right so Rachel it's not an easy question but there are lots of questions out there that aren't easy I mean what's matter we really can't see down at that lowest well I can get down to close all right but it becomes a mystery and if that's a mystery well then God's going to be even more of a mystery because of his immense Ness but look at the catechism Rachel and it discusses that and see if that helps you come up with a good answer for your friends and maybe even go to EWTN website and find a bigger description but it's it's rough ones when it really needs grace to understand and I think you know that the picture of Christ's baptism is probably a good place for Rachel a start you know where you have have Jesus being baptized and the Holy Spirit descending like a dove upon him and then the voice of God the Father saying this is my beloved son so you have the three persons of the Trinity right there that'd be a good place for it to start okay Roger from Vermont what's your question for us tonight hello Roger hi Carl ain't market-ready yes I enjoy your program very much thanks Roger and I have a question for Carl and you you have already answered proud of it but Carl you have said many times in the beginning of the show you didn't want to become a Catholic why were you so afraid of becoming a Catholic it was because of yourself or your family or friends what is the reason you know I hear that many people and and I don't know what they were taught earlier in your lies what was so bad about being a Catholic so if you could explain on that I want I would like to hear you thank you very much thanks Roger that's a very good question Roger what I meant by that it was not because of I did wasn't leaning towards believing that way but really because there was a lot at stake for me I knew it would bring discord into my family I knew it would mean the loss of my employment be since I was full-time man and that was gonna be very difficult for me and like I said I'd placed all my eggs in one basket I had studied music and ministry and both those can be pulled out from underneath me so just the the sheer level of cost personally I didn't want to do it unless I was absolutely 100% sure you know this gives me a chance to explain to the audience a few symbols in the set that they're here every week but you may not appreciate their symbols behind the guests every week is that beautiful Rembrandt painting of the return of the Sun and the reason it's there is because that's what we felt like when we came home is that our Heavenly Father welcomed us home when we came home to the church so that's why that beautiful paintings there behind me many people think I look like a politician in front of the Statehouse in Washington DC that's not the Statehouse that's st. Peter's the dome of st. Peter's behind me recognizing coming home to the Church of Peter ok we recognize that but in the middle there's another picture you may not know what that is and that is a bridge over the Tiber River and we often use the symbol of jumping the Tiber and swimming the Tiber and the symbol of that is often because we are familiar with our side of the Tiber River but we aren't familiar with the other side yet and it can be scary what's it going to be like over there I know I know God was good to me over here what's it going to be like over there I know what I can do on this side I know what my gifts are I know I can serve Him what am I going to be able to do over there because it's a strange country on the other side of the Tiber right and that's what that symbol is which what you explained right I think there's one other reason too that I failed to mention Roger was that I knew I would have to eat a lot of humble pie because you know my when my sister became a Catholic I gave her a lot of grief over it because I was a bible-thumping evangelical and said no that's wrong here's why you know all these misconceptions that I had held for of the Catholic Church I passed along to other so I knew I would have to eat my words yeah let's get an email here from from the father Joseph from Michigan says dear Marcus and Carl glory to Jesus Christ what part did the real presence of Christ and the Holy Eucharist play in your journey to the church in Christ Jesus father Joseph thank you Father for your email it's a huge part first first of all just theologically speaking when I looked at the church fathers realizing that they believed in the real presence of Christ right from the get-go and made no bones about about it you know this is the flesh and blood of Christ so knowing that the church has always taught that it was very compelling to me and then you know every time I had open up the Bible I was confronted with those those verses and if I wanted to take Christ at his word I mean he just said this is my body this is my blood if I'm gonna take him at his word that's what he means and so that was very much a compelling point for me because I wanted to be obedient I wanted to be a believer of what Jesus had said all right together a phone call Kevin from Pennsylvania hello Kevin what's your question uh hello Marcus I would like to say first that I really enjoy your show thanks uh I have a quick question for Carl what was your view on the papacy as a being raised in a Lutheran house holding going through multiple Protestant denominations I'm just wondering what your view on the Holy Father would thanks Kevin yeah it's uh that's a Lutheran I had no animosity whatsoever I mean my mother is a very kind-hearted woman and didn't infect me with those Papists you know don't trust them or whatever so I never had anything like that but I think after I moved into more evangelical circles you know being introduced to those tracts from Jack Jack Chick those elements of being very anti Pope did come into play and of course I was at the time I was ignorant to what the church had always taught and and the Church Fathers knowing that there's been a line of popes from day one starting with Peter and and on I tried to remember my I was brought up Lutheran too and I wanted for the st. for you that many ways I wasn't anti the Pope but the Pope wasn't just on the screen at all right then really think much about the Pope as a part of the equation right yeah exactly right yeah I didn't have felt no animosity towards him but didn't think about him think about them at all right let's take this email from Damian dear Marcus and Karl god bless you both for coming home to the one true church my question is how do I explain the sacrament of confession to our non Catholic brothers and sisters that's a good question I guess I would start with the Gospel of John where Jesus is upon being raised from the dead he goes to visit the disciples and breathes on them and says received the Holy Spirit and then he says those startling words he says who's ever sins you forgive they'll be forgiven so whosoever sins you retain they'll be retained and that's what I look to as the annus the beginning of that sacrament yeah I know that very often as an evangelical I would go to the James passage excuse me the the first john path excuse me 1:9 versus whatever you confess your sins he is faithful and just to forgive your sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness we would go to that passage but we forget about that John 20 passage all right but you got to put them together and then that helps you understand the need and the power of confession let's take one final break and then a moment we'll come back with some final thoughts from the journal welcome back car let's let's assume that there are some viewers listeners that are at the same place you were if ever we know from some of the emails that we got some callers that some people are still in that spiritual journey would you like to say to them maybe as a closing thought on encouragement for them to make the same journey evening oh hi I guess I would say don't be afraid to throw your best questions at the church and because I think you will find if you have an open heart that it's an impenetrable fortress that if you seek truth and throw your best questions at it you're gonna find those answers and just but come with an open heart about it all right very good now I mentioned earlier we're gonna close the show a little bit differently because as the during the credits at the end of the program they're gonna hear one of your songs right tell us a little about well it's not it's called seeing Jesus soon it's at my first CD and I thought it'd be a good song to introduce tonight because of the fact that you know I was asking God for a miracle and a sign and God is from the right back - you're gonna have to step out in faith which i think is what a lot of people are gonna have to do you know people are watching this program and you're thinking maybe I would like to become a Catholic but I would be nice to have a sign you know it might be that God's gonna call you to also take a step of faith and that's what the song talks about that like with not many of us have that Saint Thomas kind of experience you know or we get to you say unless I see with my own eyes and put my hands and the marks I will not believe you know Jesus speaks to the rest of us saying blessed are those who believe having not seen and that's where you and I are so they're here a little snippet of what's the name of the song they'll hear seeing Jesus soon okay and if they want to hear more of the song or find out more of your songs with that website yeah my website is www.antakungfu.com the lives of others if we allow ourselves to be a vessel of His grace as he mentioned part of it's letting go and letting God touch our lives and then listening to God trusting that he's guiding us knowing that He loves us knowing that he's given us abilities to use for his glory and then being available to do that and sometimes not knowing where he's gonna take us on the other side of tibor but saying lord i'll go wherever you want to go whatever you want to do with me I mean that's the the surrender that you made to him many years ago then here you are that's right and especially those whose children have left the church Karl's life is an example that God can do great things as Carl thank you for your witness and joining with and also for your song and I'm running here in a moment thank you very much thank you much and God bless you with you again next week and yet there's someone there I've never seen his face or touched his hand there's a call assurance in my and I'm beginning now to understand I've never seen your show the Ducks me until eyes too

Channel: EWTN

Views: 22,694

Rating: 4.6291389 out of 5

Keywords: Catholic, EWTN, Christian, television, Evangelicalism (Religion)

Id: G9RXuCoTcBM

Length: 54min 25sec (3265 seconds)

Published: Tue Jan 20 2015