Thank you.
You may be seated. Hello, Your Honor. Hello. This is the case of<i>
Jackson v. Pickens.</i> Thank you, Jerome. You're welcome. Good day, everyone. Miss Jackson, you are
petitioning the court to
determine the paternity of your alleged
granddaughter. You claim your son,
who is currently
incarcerated, <i> would be a fool to think
he fathered Miss Pickens'
one-year-old daughter.</i> Yeah. JUDGE LAKE:
Now, you say she's a liar and had
sex with multiple men
at the time of conception. Yes. JUDGE LAKE:
Now, Miss Pickens, you admit to sleeping
with at least two other men while involved
with Miss Jackson's son. You argue Miss Jackson initially accepted
your daughter
with open arms, <i> but now has turned
on you both.</i> Yes, Your Honor. Okay. So, Miss Jackson, why did you initially
accept the baby
if you had doubt? Your Honor, I never
accept the baby. That's a lie. I've stated from day one I do not believe
this is my granddaughter. She first...
If I can bring you in
into my reality... JUDGE LAKE:
I want to go in.
Tell me what happened. Okay. She came to my home
with her mother and another
family member. Let me remind you,
this child <i> was already four months old.</i> <i> I never even heard
of this young lady.</i> That's because you
don't have a relationship
with your son. Yes, I do.
I have a relationship. We lived
in my household. He lives
in my household. And he never
mentioned her. Okay, let's get
some order, ladies. NICOLE: Yes. Miss Pickens,
I'm gonna
come to you, but I wanna
understand... Miss Jackson,
you say you never heard
of Miss Pickens... Never heard of her.
He never
mentioned her. JUDGE LAKE:
You never heard
about a baby, and one day she shows up
at the house? NICOLE:
She comes in
with this child and again they
came in together, this baby's
four months old. <i> I said,
"I have a problem</i> <i> "because you said
it was another
man's child.</i> <i> "You should
understand where
I'm coming from."</i> <i> And in my face
she stated,</i> <i> yes,
she did understand</i> exactly where
I was coming from. At the end
of the day, I have
the right to say that this is not
my grandchild when I never
knew of you all. And you know this. Okay. NICOLE: And this is
something you know. So now,
Miss Pickens,
let me hear from you. So you find out
you're pregnant and you know it's
Miss Jackson's
son's child, or what happens
here? I did believe
that it was
one of the guys that I was dating. That would be
biologically
the answer. It was one of
the guys you were
sleeping with. Yeah, he pursued me. JUDGE LAKE: How many guys
were you sleeping with? Two. Two. NICOLE:
She don't know. She don't know. (AUDIENCE LAUGHING) Well, I'd know
if I had a boyfriend. NICOLE: Is it? Many boys stop... (BOTH CLAMOR) Stop. Hold on now. Miss Jackson,
let her speak. NICOLE: I'm sorry. You... When you
met her son... MARKEL: Yes. ...you had a boyfriend? Yes. So somehow you get
into a relationship
with Miss Jackson's son? Yes. Like, we wasn't
in a relationship,
we were just messing around. JUDGE LAKE: Okay. Me and her son was
messing around everyday JUDGE LAKE:
And you had unprotected... Every day. Unprotected sex every day. JUDGE LAKE:
And so now, listen. Were you also having
unprotected sex with someone else
at that same time? No, not at that
same time. NICOLE: When you had,
did you call somebody else
the father? When we broke up...
Yeah, with the boy... Because you was having
unprotected sex with
more than one men. When we broke up,
I did start talking
to somebody else. Hold on. Ladies... I can't understand
a word any of you
all are saying. (AUDIENCE LAUGHING) Yes. We're gonna understand
a couple of things. NICOLE: Yes. I'm the judge. Yes. And I ask the questions, you answer them. Okay? NICOLE: Yes. Okay. JUDGE LAKE:
Talk to me. I will. I'm sorry.
I'm just frustrated. Understandably, this... Nobody wants to
find themselves
in this situation. However, if we're
gonna resolve it, we gotta be able
to talk about it. Now, Miss Pickens... (AUDIENCE APPLAUDING) Were you, at the time
your child
was conceived... MARKEL: Yes. ...having sex with any other man? MARKEL: Yes. Okay, so
Miss Jackson's son
and who? The boy who I was
going out with
after him. JUDGE LAKE:
"After him"? Yes. And you thought
he was the father
at first? MARKEL: Yes. JUDGE LAKE: The guy
that was after
Miss Jackson's son? Yes. Did you get
a DNA test with him? No, ma'am. So why are you
convinced he's
not the father and Miss Jackson's
son is? Her son pursued me. He called... No, no, no. The pursuit
doesn't have anything to do
with the pregnancy. I know,
but the pregnancy... Yes, I did.
I thought the other
guy was her daddy because of my...
Well... "Well, you're
the last person
I slept with," so, of course,
I'm gonna think that
he was her father. When did you
change your mind and decide, "No, no,
it's not that guy, "it's Miss Jackson's son." <i> When did you
change your mind
and why?</i> MARKEL:<i> Well, he pursued me
and calling me and, like,</i> <i> "Oh, well, that's my baby,"
this, this, that.</i> Oh, so when you say
he pursued you, you meant when you
had this baby... Yes. Miss Jackson's son
called you and said,
"That's my baby." Yes, yes. <i> And she looked
just like him.</i> JUDGE LAKE:<i>
And you felt, like,
"There's a resemblance,</i> <i> "she looks like him
and he's saying
this is my baby?"</i> Yes. He ain't
never denied it. If he did, he denied her
around them. Your Honor,
I will agree... JUDGE LAKE: So you think
they look alike? Yes, the do. Your Honor... MARKEL: They look
just alike. NICOLE:<i> My son
look like Sonya?</i> MARKEL: And now... Yeah, come on. My son look
more like her
than he does... MARKEL: She's saying
her son looks like me. Yes. No. Can you... Can you stand up
and turn to the courts? That look more
like her son than mine. SONYA: Hey, hey,
hey, hey. Let's be real. So, Miss Jackson, even looking at this shot,
you still don't see
the resemblance? I see that all three of them
can stand by each other and you all would think
that's her son than mine. Yes, so I personally believe that the child looks
like the grandmother,
okay? Yes, I will
agree with that. I do feel that way.
I don't have no connection
to this child. I have two granddaughters. So when you met Shazyia... Yeah, because you
spend more time
with your other... Because your child
isn't mine! But I'm just saying
if my daughter was
not yours, you would have never
took the time and be, like, "Well, she can come
around my house... "Well, you can come
around my house
and spend... "You can come over with
your daughter and spend..." That's because... Because my son is claiming
this is his child. I told my son,
"Don't be a fool." If you want more episodes
of Paternity Court Make sure to subscribe
and click on
the notification bell. You're saying Miss Jackson actually expressed interest... Yes. ...and established
a relationship... Never. Yes. JUDGE LAKE:
...with your baby? (BOTH CLAMORING) JUDGE LAKE:
One second, ma'am. I never accepted
a relationship
with this child. We got text messages
saying that we... Saying never established
a relationship. That child
been to my house
three times. If that's the case,
Your Honor... (GAVEL BANGING) Listen, we can either
get this resolved or you all can go on
back home and act a fool
in the street, 'cause you're not gonna
act it up in here. (AUDIENCE APPLAUDING) I am serious. We're all ladies here,
and well want
the same answers. We're trying to figure out
who is her father. Now, Jerome, can you go
stand in between them
to stop this cross-talking? JEROME: Certainly. JUDGE LAKE: Miss Jackson,
you're saying you didn't establish
a relationship because you never truly
believed this was
your son's child, but the child has
been to your house
on several occasions. NICOLE:<i> Three occasions,
because my son
wants to get her.</i> There's no relationship
and... So you do acknowledge
that your son felt like... NICOLE: Yes,
I will say that. I do not deny that. So, now, walk me
through your doubt. If your son says, "Mom, I'm going
to pick up
my li'l girl..." He never came
to take. My doubt is... Your Honor,
my doubt is
because... She came
to pick us up. NICOLE: No. You came
to pick us up. The doubt was,
for the simple fact
of my son... My son looks
more like
her mother. So you're saying
the first part
of your doubt is you don't feel
like the baby looks
like your son... NICOLE: Exactly.
No grandmother
connection. You don't have
a grandmother
connection. NICOLE: No. Meaning when you
look at the baby, you do not
have that feeling? Exactly. This is my
grandchild. I have
two grandchildren
that I love dearly and take very
good care of them. Not with Shazyia.
I can't. Okay? JUDGE LAKE:
So other than
the two... So other than
grandmother's
instinct, what else? NICOLE: She had
several men that she was
sleeping with
unprotected. Then she claimed
that another
man was the father. So these are
the reasons that
I have my doubt. She has lied
about faking
the pregnancy, stated she was
pregnant with twins when she found out
Aaliyah was
pregnant. I come to find out
that's a lie, 'cause her mother
told me
it was a lie. She act like
she was in
the hospital when she
really wasn't,
Your Honor. And she gave me
a bogus number stating that it was
the hospital number and
it went to a cell phone. What hospital
has a voicemail? You're saying she lied
about a second pregnancy? Yes, when she found out
Aaliyah was pregnant. She is very jealous
of Aaliyah. She's in competition
with Aaliyah. She told me when
she found that out, she stood up here
and said she was pregnant. JUDGE LAKE:
All right, hold on. So, Miss Pickens,
did you lie about
a second pregnancy? MARKEL: Yes, I did. Yes. Why? I was kind of hurt.
Yes, I did lie. And the only reason
you know I lied was because I told
your son that I lied. We found out because
we called the hospital. MARKEL: No, no, no, no. It was no such record. Why did you lie? Yes, I did lie 'cause
I was kind of hurt. I was hurt 'cause that... JUDGE LAKE:
So you did it
to get back at him? Yes. Yes. NICOLE: Then she said
she had an abortion. But you now have to understand
why your credibility
is about shot. Yeah, I know. So... JUDGE LAKE: Okay.
I just want you
to understand... Yes. ...why another woman, another person
or a judge might not believe
what you're saying when you make up
an entire pregnancy story that you then have
to admit was a lie. Yes. Miss Jackson,
prior to coming
to this court, have you ever requested
a DNA test? I have. And they told me
I need to pay for it. I think... Yes. I asked for it
from day one. I said, "Due to the fact..." And my thing is
with Miss Sonya,
for her to be a mother... Okay? For her to be
having a dispute with me, I have every right
to feel the way I feel. Um... (AUDIENCE APPLAUDING) She would feel the same way. JUDGE LAKE: All right.
Miss Pickens, let's go
to your witness. Please stand. And when I asked,
she told me I have
to pay for the DNA. First of all,
Your Honor, I'm not gonna say what
my child don't do wrong
and what she is, 'cause at times
she is wrong. But with same time,
if she is having problem
with Aaliyah, why do this one
got to get in?
This is a grown woman. So my child's 19 and I got
a 37-year-old woman... I'm talking. ...jumping in
at the same time. So just to clarify, Aaliyah, seated here, is Miss Jackson's son's... Yes. ...other child's mother. NICOLE: Yes. Yes. This is the mother
of my grandchild. (AUDIENCE APPLAUDING) For real. Okay. I wanna understand
your position. Okay. JUDGE LAKE: And why
you are certain that your grandchild was fathered by
Miss Jackson's son. To me, she look
just like him. <i> Hair, eyes,
she does looks like...</i> This li'l boy
done lived with me
for about a month because his mother
put him out. MARKEL: Exactly. He didn't have
nowhere to go. But I had
a picture of Kevin, <i> her, his little brother,
and his dad</i> <i> and they all look
the same way.</i> So besides looks, you feel how
they look alike,
what else? I got
four daughters. And I confide
in my daughters, and I even came,
I asked Markel, "Is there anything
you need to tell me,
anybody else "before I go
out of here looking
like a fool?" And when you
asked her to
tell you the truth, she said... SONYA: She told me. I mean, I knew
about the other guy. And I knew
about Kevin. JUDGE LAKE:
So once you knew about the
other guys... Right. In your mind
did you say
to yourself... I never said that... He came around,
but I never,
ever said, "Oh, Shazyia
looks like..."
Never. But when Kevin
started coming
around... But when you knew
your daughter had slept with
another man around the time
of conception, did you say
to yourself, "Well, are we
certain that it's
Miss Jackson's son?" Or did you
just go on
the look factor? No. No. I asked her at
one time, you know
what I'm saying? Because she didn't
have no features
of this other guy. You know
what I'm saying? Then when
she told me... She never
said Kevin, she said,
"Somebody else." Didn't happen,
so Kevin
came around, <i> and that's when I
start seeing her features,</i> <i> you know what I'm saying?</i> <i> Okay, she do.
She got...</i> JUDGE LAKE:<i> So you went off
of that fact that you felt
like they resembled?</i> <i> Okay.</i> SONYA:<i> Right.</i> JUDGE LAKE:
Thank you so much.
You may be seated. So, Miss Jackson, now, she's saying that
your son came around and claimed, he said,
"This is my daughter." Why would they
not believe it? Your Honor, I do
understand your question, and the only thing
I can tell you is this. My son, he did say
that this is his child, but a woman should know who
the father of her child is. <i> Period. Period.</i> (AUDIENCE APPLAUDING) <i> It's not for a man
to come tell you,</i> it's for you to know. And I have told Markel
over and over again, "We could have
had this resolved. "If this is my grandchild, "I will apologize
to her." I said this to her
on Facebook. And I will take in
that child. But I don't believe
in my heart, Your Honor, I'm not wrong
for not feeling like
this child is mine. I'm not wrong for that. I'm not. JUDGE LAKE:
So this is really... (MUTTERING) I just told you.
Comprehend. I say if this is
my grandchild, let me dumb it
down for her,
I will... (AUDIENCE APPLAUDING) ...take care of her. She good. She good.
She don't need
your handout. So this is hurting,
and I can tell... NICOLE: It is very much
because... And is it because
you feel misunderstood, or you feel
just so frustrated? Frustration. Ben left the building because this child... Hold on! Because people know
I take on kids that's
not even mine, so it's not even
about that. But if I'm telling you
I don't believe this, do not attack me
for feeling how
I choose to feel. Everybody wanna talk
about keeping it real, but I'm keeping it real
with you, and you attacking me
for being real. (AUDIENCE APPLAUDING) And it hurts. You know,
as I sit here, literally between
both of you
at the side, I understand
both positions. So now I wanna
hear from your witness before we go
to the results. Miss Manning,
please stand and tell me what
you have to add. Okay. Markel's not
even concerned about
Kevin being the father. She is concerned
about me and
Kevin's relationship. MARKEL: No,
I have never been... From day one,
I didn't even know Markel
from a can of paint. I know you. AALIYAH:
She found me. So you're Miss Jackson's
son's current girlfriend? Okay, Miss Pickens... MARKEL: Yes. Let her talk. Okay. Miss Manning,
I'm trying to understand, you're his
current girlfriend? AALIYAH: Yes. And you have
a child with him? Correct. Correct. You didn't know
of Miss Pickens... At all. And you say
her concern... Is more about
me and Kevin's
relationship than finding
if that's Kevin's
daughter. So you say this
entire position
she's taking... MARKEL: No, no. JEROME: You need
to be quiet. ...is based
upon the fact she just wants
to destroy what
you all have. Basically. JUDGE LAKE: And
she's jealous of it. Very. JUDGE LAKE: Okay. I think
it's important that we begin
to talk about
how to move forward. AALIYAH: Yes. MARKEL: Yes. (AUDIENCE
APPLAUDING) This is a mess.
Miss Manning,
you can take a seat. Miss Jackson,
what are your
hopes for today? What do you want? I don't want to be
involved with
these people at all. Period.
I really don't. That's my hope. Let them go on
about their
business. Find the father
of this child. And just like
I stated, if this is
my granddaughter, I will today start taking care
of my grandchild. But I don't think
it is. Great. And I want
you to know I will hold you
to that. NICOLE: Oh,
you don't have to. Good. My grandkids
that I have, they will
tell you that. And here's one of
the mothers. JUDGE LAKE: Good. I'll take good care
of my grandchildren. Miss Pickens,
what are you
hoping for today? I'm just hoping
that we find out who
her daddy is today. <i> Because I do want her
in Shazyia's life.</i> <i> I really don't care too much
about me 'cause it's
just about Shazyia.</i> JUDGE LAKE: That's right. And I just want her to just call about Shazyia,
see is she's okay, and at least spend time
with them... NICOLE: I will. ...if I do come back
to North Carolina. That's all I want. NICOLE: I will. That's my word. Okay. (AUDIENCE APPLAUDING) Jerome, may I have
the results, please. These results were prepared
by DNA Diagnostics. And they read
as follows. When it comes
to one-year-old
Baby Shazyia Pickens, Mrs. Jackson, you are not her grandmother. Got you. (SHRIEKING HAPPILY) JEROME: Get off! Yes! Yes! Thank you, God! SONYA:
Don't do that.
Don't... Don't do that.
Don't do that! You can't do that! Momma, she
just can't... (GAVEL BANGING) I need order! Court is in recess. When we come
to this courtroom,
it's about the children. Yeah. And if you do know
who her father is, for her sake, ask them. Be willing to offer
and say, "If you wanna go have,
if you wanna take
a DNA test," whatever it takes
for your baby. That should be your focus. And look, I tell people all the time,
mothers come in
this courtroom, you don't let no man
take you off your game. And your mission in life
is what? Take care of my baby. Exactly. All right, so I needed
to call a recess because, while I know this is
the news that you wanted, I think courtroom decorum
would suggest that maybe we didn't
need to do a dance and
throw papers in the air. I could have
handled it better. You could have
handled it better. I could have. And I want you to
acknowledge that. I will. So at some point when things calm down, I don't care if it's
a letter, a phone call
or a text, I think an apology
would be nice. And just to wish her
and the baby well. You know being
a mother is tough. You need that village,
right? Yes, that's right. And today she lost
a portion of what
she thought would be her village.
Okay? Okay.
