Judge texts through trial of murdered 2-year-old; Wife killed after refusing reality TV appearance

a word of warning this podcast explores graphic and disturbing stories and includes some strong language it therefore may not be suitable for our young listeners or other folks who may find it disturbing hello and welcome to True Crime daily the podcast covering high-profile and under the radar cases from across the country every week I'm your host Anna Garcia our cases this week a husband is accused of murdering his wife because she refused to appear on a house flipping reality TV show according to prosecutors the man pretended to be a millionaire when the couple met and bought this really expensive home in a ritzy area of Orlando which he could not afford now when he told police that his wife had slipped getting into the tub and then died a noons female investigator called BS just listen to her in the interrogation room here's a clip the evidence and her body speak for itself and your story is BS got to love her style now ju depos that incredible detective with a female judge in Oklahoma who is accused of texting and scrolling through social media during a murder trial she was caught on camera doing it the judge allegedly sent more than 500 text messages during a murder trial making sexual comments about the prosecutor and a police officer that she found attractive as in appropriate and unprofessional as that is keep in mind that She's accused of doing this during a horrific case of a man accused of beating to death a 2-year-old boy that little boy the victim deserved the judge to care about Justice for him we are recording this on Tuesday October 17th of 2023 Our Guest today is Dr Tracy Tambora a criminal justice professor at the University of New Haven Tracy is a nationally recognized expert on domestic violence sexual assault and the effects of the Criminal criminal justice system on women and marginalized people Tracy welcome back how are you I'm very well Anna thank you for having me and thank you for these two shows it it and I really like how you started it with the juxa positioning of a really high quality employee in the criminal justice system with someone who appears to have been derel of Duty showing the full range of you know the potential competencies of individuals who work in the system so I appreciate that oh thank you you know we were talking before we started recording and I I know you have a lot of opinions particularly about our first case which is about this judge in Oklahoma who you know caught on security video in the courtroom you could see her holding her phone underneath the desk that big imposing desk that the judge sits at and you can see her texting you can see her scrolling through Facebook this is during a murder trial she makes fun of the jurors she says oh is that a wig that juror is wearing are you kidding me yeah I mean two things jump out to me right away one about her as an individual in this kind of modern digital era and something that I'm worried about as a professor in classes with students is their ability to pay attention but the second issue is something that is even more concerning for me is that you know as a professor of Criminal Justice and a former employee that worked directly in the system with victims the criminal justice system is battling with you know a reputation or a marketing or a branding I don't know what's the best word to use um dilemma in that it you know uh there there's been a lot of Criminal Justice System employee failures whether that has been police overuse of force whether that has been prosecutorial discretion like in the Bill Cosby case um there these are cases in which the average person starts to lose faith in the criminal justice system and when the A and and the criminal justice system is and and usually it's police officers because they're the first they're the face of the system the average person sees them more but now that we're recording court cases we're going to also see prosecutors and judges and if they are also uh if there is also a certain percentage of them who are incompetent and starts to filter into the you know American public's uh realization again I think she's probably represents you know 10% of all prosecutors or judges courtroom personnel and the level of incompetence she's displayed but it leaves such a bad taste in our mouth and as will said prior you know th this week has not been a week full of stories about great judges making complex decisions and prioritizing victim this week this woman captured the headlines because of just really egregious and quite frankly Anna really immature Behavior oh absolutely and you know she makes my stomach turn because we talk about Justice all the time on this program we talk about what would Justice look like and we are lost in a discussion about the conduct of this judge who is under in judicial investigation but what happened was she did this during the trial of a two-year-old a little boy who was killed and her decisions and her alleged biases here impacted so much of this trial and the person who stood accused ends up getting convicted of a lesser charge because she insisted that a lesser charge be instructed to the jury in instead of what the prosecutors were going for the prosecutor she was making fun of and then as a result of that even though the jury comes back with a conviction she gets to do the sentencing so what does she do she sentences this man to time served meaning he's been sitting in jail waiting for this so he he's done four years that he's been sitting there waiting for this trial he's done where's the justice for that baby boy where's the justice for his family where tell me where is no and you have two issues right here on the table the first issue is impartiality right so she has not just discredited this court case but she has discredited the legal profession of being a judge she the the entire position hinges on the ability to be objective and impartial that goes out the window you know the other thing is unlike in a trial so there the defense has a right to an appeal I doubt they will appeal because they got off pretty much with a with a very reduced sentence but we don't have any legal response if the prosecutor wants to bring the case forward because we know that the judge's Behavior was so egregious you can't do that because of Double Jeopardy so we can't bring forth this case again to try to get a more appropriate sentence for this defendant so yeah we have two major issues one in this case specifically there was a lack of Justice done for the child the victim in this case and two for the entire system this judge has really just Sid stepped and disregarded the major judicial principle of impartiality which then affects all of us as Citizens under the Constitution it it it degrades the entire process it really does it does and it's interesting that you know she will be held to a different standard the investigation will be different it you know it is the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of Oklahoma that has brought these charges and this investigation so they will ultimately you know the judicial system of Oklahoma will ultimately deal with this now she was elected uh and recently elected so she's a brand new judge to the system but you know what you you don't really need to have that much experience in a courtroom to know you can't be on your cell phone and you can't be on Facebook and then you can't be texting the bay 500 freaking times about how you think the cop is so good-looking that you could stare at him all day if a male judge texted that about a female police officer that judge would be done and out the door sure no discussion double standard here why does she get to get away with that sure and let's hope that she is done and out the door and let's and and also let's hope that not only is it be not be that this case also highlights this the sexually degrading text messages that she was sending not just the fact that she wasn't present and impartial um we're talking here about Judge Tracy sostrom who's 50 old enough to know better absolutely put your freaking phone down and she was recently elected and sworn in as a Lincoln County District Judge she was sworn in on January 9th of this year and already she's facing potential removal she was working out of Chandler Oklahoma now 500 text messages this is like a child a teenager and she's sending them to the Bale yes in the same court who's just a few feet away and everything that they're texting each other is ridiculous it is it is most of it's offensive but a lot of it is ridiculous unnecessary this is the kind of stuff I mean look had she done this in Chambers had she done it somewhere privately it would have again equally is offensive but to be doing it during jury selection during you know the interrogation of witnesses I I I'm I'm stunned cell phone technology right is ubiquitous and we are all either telling our children we are telling our partners we are telling our co-workers you know um can you put that away so we can focus and concentrate I think what makes this story particularly outrageous is not the fact that she's texting 500 times because this has become part of our our socialization mechanism but the fact that the courtroom is like an operating room it's supposed to be a sacred place we accept we expect that doctors judges these individuals who are held in high regard in our social settings that they have a level of decorum and maturity and competence to remove all of this lwh hanging fruit stuff sure how many times have you gone to a restaurant and is your your waiter or waitress is not available but you see them you know texting in the corner it's frustrating or if you're in a store right but we just don't expect professionals to be engaging in this kind of um Behavior but Anna as somebody who studies bad human behavior for a living I think we're going to see more of this not less of this I really do think from what I'm seeing in the last 10 years in the classroom my students are by and large appear to be addicted I have a no technology policy in the classroom because and you know what's the funny thing now I'm going to have to rethink what I say I say listen when you get into the system you can't bring your phones in the courts you can't bring your phones into an interview with a child uh with a victim of child abuse you have to be very present well now thanks a lot to this judge that not only has she negated a very sacred aspect of being a judge imp partiality not only has she created a farce of the C of you know the sanctity of the courtroom but she's also thanks a lot sending messages to Future criminal justice professionals that under certain circumstances you don't really have to be present you don't really have to be mindful you don't really have to be engaged and so I think this has a ripple effect um that I I I hope that this this particular case is followed through in the media and we see that she does receive a punishment um that suits her uh the crime which in this case is on the micro level she didn't give the the the the young the the baby the two-year-old boy doesn't get his day in court even posthumously and at the macro level at the societal level this sends a terrible message about the how Justice is administered it is so disappointing it is so disappointing and and thank goodness that the it was a security camera that caught this and then it was um the Oklahoma a a news organization that managed to get the video and published the video and literally forced this situation out into the open and so you all can see the video you can watch her for yourself it's not like one time she pulls the phone out and has to deal with something which could be anything it could be another judge saying it could be anything but that's not the case here constantly constantly on her lap and again the fact that you can see that she's scrolling on Facebook this is what is I'm sorry is now Facebook you know providing uh legal opinions for judges I think not I think not so this Behavior was made public in July and according to the documents that have been released here through the court system itself she exchanged the 500 messages with the bayith Angela Miller who I said was literally a few feet away and it all started during a trial I mean this could have started way before this but the actual documentation of this Behavior began June 7th and that's when a murder trial began the murder trial of Kristen marzel okay now he's the boyfriend of the little boy's mother and so it was his turn to be judged in a courtroom the victim here is 2-year-old Braxton Daner now Braxton died on Mother's Day of 2018 and his mother Judith Daner and her boyfriend this this was his trial they were both charged with the boy's death in 2019 I want to talk a little bit about this case so you can understand why it's important that the judge should have been paying attention and again it goes back to Justice in 2019 the mother Judith enters a plea for an amended charge of enabling child abuse she was sentenced listen to this she was sentenced to 25 years in prison and she also agreed to testify against the boyfriend the charge here is enabling child abuse yes okay so let's think about what is fair here so the judge decides that it's all the mother's fault because that's what's written in the text messages the mother decides that the mother is to blame and this Christian the boyfriend it's really you know it's not as much his fault is what the judge decides here and he's being held without bail since the time he was arrested which explains the four years that he's been waiting in custody so um she sided with the defendant and there is proof of this based on what the judge uh of the judicial system the Supreme Court has released publicly when a cop testified in this case we're talking about the death of a boy she Texas the bayith I could look at him all day are you kidding me are you kidding me yeah how inappropriate it's inappropriate and also the kind of your your your sentence two or three sentences back she sided with the defendant it's just Preposterous to me that we're even using this language because we're talking about a judge you're not siding with anyone but she did and so the idea that she is making it clear where she stands and I think your point is well taken right the mother who appears to have enabled the ACT is receiving my gosh four or five times the sentence of the individual who actually engaged in the act and any normal person would be thinking is this Justice um and and is this a direct result of the judge's inaptitude uh uh callousness disregard for the case at hand hand I think so yeah I think so I think without question the judges actions and rulings absolutely set up this perfect storm for him to receive a lesser sentence than the mother look I don't know all of the details because and I can't judge who did what vers but you can't tell me with the death of a baby you have 25 years here you have four here that does not seem fair if they were if they were allegedly both there and involved in this act I got a problem here that is not not fair at all so the judge clearly liked the defense better than she liked the prosecutor for example she liked the defense attorney so much that she texted her friend the bayith awesome can I clap for her are you kidding me it is like it is it is sideline commentary in a courtroom it is the thought bubbles in text message yeah to your buddy the bale of your girlfriend this is absurd so I'm kind of interested I want to talk to one of my colleagues who studies courtroom psychology to say do you think judges are actually thinking these kind of mundane silly um you know thoughts throughout their trials human Tracy so I mean part of me is going to say look we're all human beings everyone in the system is and so you know you may be thinking these things like she this this judge made a comment about the prosecutor she didn't like him why does he have baby hands is one of the things that she texted so it's like the thing that comes into your head you know where you say to someone such a thing because for whatever reason it clicked and it bugged you that's okay you you can think these things the problem here is that she texted them in real time during a trial that needed her attention I I think you know judges are like everybody else they they think you know they think this prosecutor is that this defense attorney is this you know this juror is that um and I've spent a lot of time in courtrooms and I will tell you you know that the two people you fear the most in a courtroom situation when you walk in so is the judge and the bayth always without question because the bayth controls your access to the judge the judge controls what everyone does and when you're working in a courtroom and you're covering a case let's say and there are Electronics involved for example if we're audio video recording depending on the setup um press photographers we we are constantly being instructed coralled um generally the bayith and the judge sets the rules and the tones I've had some judges call me back into Chambers with the whole you know with all the reporters for a variety of things sometimes it's to set the rules to tell you this is how it's going to be this is how you're going to act this is my expectation and then you know that's part of it you know you're sitting there and there're like really scary people and then you have other judges I mean I had one judge uh we ended up becoming friends for a very long time literally would talk to me about fishing tournaments I don't fish so what I'm trying to say is Tracy I do believe everyone in the system is a human being but the question is you know when you can act when you're supposed to act professionally and then when you keep your things to yourself and maybe share your weird Thoughts with maybe a real friend or off hours yeah and and I've also been in courts and sure there's things that come to my mind when I'm when I used to accompany a victim and you're and you're thinking things like oh my gosh this is frustrating or oh I wish this person I wish the prosecutor would shut up or I wish this person would say more but you you have to keep you have to to pay attention when you are a significant player in the court process you have to take notes because there may be a moment in which you're asked for instance a judge if the defense attorney or the prosecutor you know wants to recall an issue or wants to object to a position to a position that's put forward you have to be present to make sure you can discern whether that objection or that the recalling of that information makes sense and and you need your own Court your notes there is a stenographer but most judges that I've ever interacted with are taking notes on the proceedings while they are listening to the proceedings in case something comes into question and the judge serves as the referee for the legal boundaries or parameters so well if you scroll through the video you will see judge Tracy with the phone in her lap and then she's multitasking then you see her hand reach up to the desk and then she's taking a note and then back to her texting yeah need I say anything more about this woman but we have so much more to tell you because the details of the things she said you know again just so infuriate me so again we talked about how the judge felt about the mother in this case the mother is not on trial the mother is a witness in this case she's not on trial so the judge wrote this is about the mother that the state just couldn't accept that a mom could kill their kids so they went after the next person available that's how she felt about the boyfriend the next person available excuse me we're talking about the death of a baby the murder of a baby and then um she supposedly the judge supposedly reiterated these opinions she had in the hallways during breaks in the trial telling other authorities that she didn't believe the mother's testimony okay so um she and then she I mean to me one of the most egregious things she did was where the prosecution is asking for second deegree murder and the judge drops it and says to the jury no you can only consider second deegree manslaughter she instructs the jury on what they can and can't consider therefore making a determination as the judge in this case as to what the possible punishment could be uh it's it's extraordinary in fact in fact she sent a text message to the baith regarding these jury instructions and she wrote to the bayth quote we are giving an alternate instruction of second-degree manslaughter so now the bayith this is what the BFF writes quote he didn't kill that kid really you know that you know what's complicated about this I have seen cases in which judges downgrade charges so they take they do instruct the jury we're we're you know we're taking murder two off the table and we're putting manslaughter one on the table this is how you should proceed and it's been completely appropriate so it like you said I don't know in this particular case if the instruction was appropriate but everything about her demeanor everything about her engagement both in the court on the text messages and in the hallway point to the fact that we really can't TR trust her judicial decisionmaking so the downgraded charges automatically appear strange or odd or preferential they may have been completely appropriate but I don't feel as though we she's she doesn't appear as credible at this point to know that her determination is therefore credible I agree with you the jury found Christian marzel guilty of manslaughter in the second degree and that carries a sentence of two to four years sure well the judge says well then you're sentenced to time served sir you're done here you're done here sir this is Justice not in the opinion of the family not at all so the family of that little boy was so upset you have to understand as they're going through the trial their focus is on getting Justice the evidence and what's going on they are not focused on the shenanigans of Judge Tracy over here and then when this is released then it no doubt made sense to the family it's like this explains everything she was never paying attention in the first place so Braxton's grandfather David Nelson spoke with News on Six live and here's a a clip of that I broke down I mean me and my wife both did it's just another thing another insult on top of injury yes he's right it is insult on top of injury so disrespectful to this family and to that child and again most Americans we don't understand the criminal justice trial system first of all less than 5% of cases go before trial so it's usually a murder or something significant so most most of us have very little exposure to what goes on in a trial now you're adding the other element that you have a baby who was murdered and then and the and we also have a third element the mother was involved in some way and so I think this is a case that sets up this perfect storm for us as a general public expecting Justice and and Justice of course as you and I have talked about many times Anna is in a lofty normative goal we'll probably never reach it but we strive for it but this so it's get all of these emotional complications here are further exacerbated by the bad behavior of the judge I it doesn't appear Justice is done again though I have no way as a criminologist to evaluate that because she has put maybe it was right maybe he should have had manslaughter in the second degree in four years is appropriate but it there's no way to evaluate that now because it appears she prejudiced the process the family of the little boy Braxton they are filing their own complaint against the judge I don't know if she can be sued civil here yeah so I don't know I there have been many cases with a prosecutor and prosecutors have been found to you know pursue charges against knowing the innocent people there's even a very famous case of a prosecutor who KN who went after the death penalty against an individual that the prosecutor knew to be innocent and most of what the court rulings come back on is this notion of discretion we don't have those same parameters with judges and so I think this is going to be interesting to follow to see how the court ultimately decides also we know police departments can be sued for problematic Behavior prosecutors cannot be sued so I'm not sure where what the where judges lie in this we know police departments and individual officers can be sued prosecutors can't but I I don't know I I I I was looking trying to look this up yesterday to see if a judge can be sued um I'm not sure if they're protected I hope that there is a brilliant legal mind somewhere in the state of Oklahoma who is thinking about this and how to get Justice and make sure that you send a very clear message that this behavior is completely inappropriate and she should be terminated and she should be disbarred these are what we know I know to be uh potential penalties for her behavior anything further than that I'm not aware well let's let's let someone who doesn't spend nearly as much time uh text messaging and scrolling through social media focus and figure out the solution here and outsmart this woman who lives in a little box right in a little box can I just raise two two World points yeah yeah so I think there's also um the the United States use of Judges is kind of particular in in in all of the world that is democratic so number one we have elected or appointed officials many other Democratic societies a judge position is based on Merit so you're taking tests and you're going through a a rigorous evaluation process so it's it's depoliticized no election no appointment by the governor for instance so that might be one thing also that this case maybe brings to Forefront and and opens up for discussion how are we selecting judges in the first place the second thing many other Democratic societies require a judge to write up a legal finding a holding on the case we do this for the Supreme Court but lower court judges don't necessarily have they don't do this where they have to put their legal reasoning um the stenographer keeps court record and that's enough and so this also might call into question that judges need to be accountable for their legal decisions and they need to defend them in some sort of record that goes in that becomes permanent record which we don't quite have a system for that now the prosecutor the one who she said had baby hands um gave a brief statement saying that it is both shocking and disappointing especially since jurors are banned from using their cell phones in the courtroom that's right that's right and you can be held in contempt of court if you yes if you take out your cell phone so that's also a hypocrisy here right oh completely completely now following all this publicity it took until October 10th for the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of Oklahoma John Cain to finally recommend the removal of Tracy sostrom from her position she has been accused of gross negligent of gross negligent of Duty gross partiality in office oppression in office and additional grounds are all specified this is all for her removal she has been suspended with pay while the court on the Judiciary conduct is figuring out what to do with her Tracy's own attorney for her current legal situation responded that she's taking the allegations seriously wow good morning Tracy good morning to you welcome to the world you know her her term is not scheduled to expire for 4 years until 2027 My Wish for her is for her to be judged the way she judges I hope that if there is a panel that has to sit there right and decide her fate I hope they have headphones on and giant iPads and that they're watching mov and I hope that they completely disrespect this woman and not listen to a word she has to say because she doesn't deserve to be heard I'm sorry I don't care tell me how you really feel Anna Karma right karma karma karma absolutely but no you know what's gonna happen Miss bad behavior over here is going to get all the benefits of the best Judicial System we have available fairness impartiality that's what she's going to get she didn't give that to to who knows how many other people yeah but she's gonna get it ah so unfair right and and of course we we also talk about this often like the human in US wants to see her pay right but the the part of us that seeks Justice that you as the Justice oriented journalist and myself as a criminologist I do hope she gets due process in AFF Fair trial I don't you know I don't want to see her rights trampled the human in me I'm okay with it but I I don't want to see a miscarriage of Justice followed up by another miscarriage of Justice um and hopefully you know hopefully there is there not hopefully I'm confident that this will be taken seriously because this has received so much media attention it's kind of um in in criminology we talk about deter Ur and you really do need to punish certain people very harshly to send a strong um social message we call that General deterrence this needs a strong social message one so that other judges don't engage in this type of behavior but two to reins some sort of confidence in the general public this is not okay this is not tolerable this is not how you will be treated if you need court services as either the victim or the offender like you know so hopefully this gives an opportunity to send a message that the criminal legal system takes Justice seriously and that we're quite frankly disgusted by that behavior True Crime daily the podcast is sponsored by better help sometimes it's hard to know if you're making the right decision or you say to yourself let me sleep on it but you end up rolling around all night with these racing thoughts do you 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things the accused here is 55-year-old David tronis who is currently on trial for allegedly murdering his wife Shanty Cooper tronis who was 39 years old now prosecutors say that the motive here so it's an odd motive we haven't usually heard this one um is that they say he got so mad when she refused to appear on a house flipping reality TV show apparently the husband was out of money their house was a money pit she refused to pay anymore and so his last go-to move was like oh if I can get this house featured on a flipping renovation TV show they'll pay for it I'll get it done it'll be fantastic and so apparently he had even convinced a producer to come over and look at the house but you know Shanty didn't want to be part of this TV show uh she refused to be on the TV show and when you're a producer of one of these things the production company generally requires at least the main couple or the family to be on the show because the show is about the house and the people so she was just like I want no part of this which meant that's it he didn't have another move left obviously I think he had plenty of Moves Like You can try and sell the house there many things you can do other than killing your wife as he is accused so strange you know I always say this I I repeat it practically every week murder is not a problemsolving solution it is not your goto so I guess in this case we have first you go to a reality show and if that doesn't work then maybe murder murder sure yeah and also there's there's a few red flags in this case um you know the fact that there were some lying and and distortions regarding the financial situation um the fact that there seemed to be some disagreement in the first place about involving this um reality television show this is not things that you would think in an adjusted healthy marriage you know you both parties would have been on board from the get-go um so there's probably something going on in this marriage uh some sort of tension dysfunction I can't say domestic violence because I don't have enough information but there's some sort of dysfunction happening and then we all those of us who've ever done home renovation I mean it's not a fun thing it is very um it's it's it's draining it does stressful stressful it it you know husbands and wives Partners there's tension and then of course if you're also the renovation is creating some sort of financial burden so that you can see that this tension and stress is building in this couple that does seem to have some sort of dysfunction or problems already um of course yes Anna your point that murder is not a solution it is not a coping mechanism um is is well taken so yeah and yet this is you know people make these decisions sadly every day to deal with their problems so the couple had purchased this home $600,000 home and they were in over their heads at this point uh the wife was completely over it you know because she had been paying for all these Renovations and and so she felt like this house was a money pit there's uh been a suggestion that she was so done that she was ready to leave him uh prosecutors say that in this house they had an interesting living Arrangement where there was apparently an apartment which doubled as her office but she lived there so kind of like almost Separate Lives if you will so definitely a lot going on Tracy you know much more than just like will you be on the show with me or not it was much deeper than that so David and Shany met on match.com sometime in 2013 a few months later David moved to Florida to be with her and at the time Shany had an eight-year-old son Jackson who was living with her and according to reports David misrepresented his financial status when the two began dating and according to authorities he told his soon to be wife that he had inherited between four and $6 million following the passing of his father which apparently was not true that he was not worth that so they married in 2017 the couple purchased the home for $600,000 and David had his name on the title indeed but not chanties yeah that for me was one of those red flags because the uh the news report that I saw was the the her name was not on the deed yet she was making the majority of the financial contributions to the overall renovation so I don't know many spouses uh again I I can't speculate but to not be on the deed but yet be responsible for the renovation seems like you're being set up for some sort of uh unfortunate financial situation it seems that he wanted this house he wanted her to pay for fixing it and then he would get the proceeds when he flipped it yeah this is what it appears like but we don't know they're far more serious things that he's accused of than that now we want to be clear here that David says he is not guilty he says that this is an accident his wife hurt herself in the tub and that is how she died so he's denying at all any of this according to a report from WFTV the finances may have been just one of the problems that the couple was dealing with here they claim that records obtained by investigators allegedly indicated that David visited a gay men's gym in Spa named Club Orlando athletic Ventures more than 70 times leading up to and through his marriage a worker at the spa says this is their reporting that David had been seen having sex with other men it is unclear whether his wife had any idea that he was cheating on her we do not know the answer to that and that could also have been an issue here that's their private business but again if he was cheating on her and she had just found out and then they're having the financial problems and she's thinking of leaving it could all be crumbling for the husband here so the actual argument apparently was about the renovation at least that's what prosecutors are saying and as the renovation costs were piling up so the the name of the show is forgive me I haven't seen it it's called Zombie house flipping I don't know occasionally I see International House Hunters what can I say I'm pretty Limited in this area um so the Hope was that zombie house flipping would pay for the renovations put them on TV be done with it David would be a star he'd have a new house house everything would be perfect well of course it doesn't work out that way at all so uh now so that disastrous meeting where like Shanti wouldn't deal with the um producer of the show and all that that that was a week before her death now let's get to the day she's found dead April 24th 2018 David calls 911 tells dispatchers that his wife had fallen in the bathtub of their home and was unresponsive David said that she fell into the bathtub she fell as she was trying to get into the bathtub he said this is actually very important here yes he said that the bathtub was half full with water when he found her body however investigators who arrived on the scene said both the bathtub and shant's body were dry yeah I mean there's a lot of evidence here right about the level of injury to the body that also brings into question the his statements right uh it it I read that he said she had not just uh contusions to the head but she also had uh her windpipe was damaged her ear was nearly taken off and she had Patia up and down her body indicating that there were other traumas so so the between the fact that these things would not occur if you slipped in the tub so you have some contradictory evidence going on here yeah so he was interrogated for hours here at the scene because even the responding paramedics were like nothing made sense the story that you're being told doesn't seem to fit the crime scene that you're looking at so David claimed then David says well I moved her body in a panic to the bedroom before returning her to the tub who does that that doesn't make any sense that's not logical no no no so then police say well they found so much blood in the bedroom that they theorized that she was murdered in the bedroom and then the body was moved into the bathtub to make it look like a slip and fall sure but the problem was you got to put some water in the bathtub if you want people to believe the story yeah and I means also the the you know the CSI effect but you know unfortunately everybody wants to search for serial killers so that's has a negative but the CSI effect should tell you that there the for our ability to forensically identify injuries is pretty good and so the idea that you're going to make up a story about something that we can the forensic scientists can actually measure um you know types of injuries there is physics like the the amount of injury given the length of distance between the height of the individual and the fall so I don't know this guy's story again I don't have all the court transcripts this has not gone through we don't have all of the information publicly available but the fact that his initial report to the detective is not adding up the amount of injury to the body the fact that that we have a significant amount of blood in another room again I mean I was halfway joking about the CSI effect but this is this is no brainer stuff you should be aware that this information can be um supported by forensic evidence so I I don't know what he's doing he's not helping himself with the story in any way no and the trial is currently going on as we're recording this should be going on through the rest of the week we have no idea if he's going to take the stand in his own defense we're going to play some interrogation tapes for you and when you view them and listen to them you may think to yourself perhaps he should not take the stand because he's certainly not helping helping his case he unless you can explain the stuff that doesn't make any sense in the interrogation room then you should just be quiet and and hope that some juror has compassion on you and you get a hung jury or something so the medical examiner has ruled clearly that this was a homicide um even though you know there's been back and forth during the trial this week that I mean is it possible that she could have died just from the head injury and not also strangulation and you know one of the expert Witnesses were like well maybe it's Poss you know what I mean there's always like like is it possible but for the most part I mean clearly we have a homicide here um she died from blunt force trauma to the head and strangulation according to the prosecution the defense again is arguing that this was an accident okay so the Superstar you know if we had one really bad woman in Oklahoma we have like one incredible woman here in Florida the investigative Superstar here is detective Teresa sprog she is a No Nonsense woman and she has zero patience for the husband who is telling her a story that does not make sense to her so here's a clip of her interrogating the husband now for those of you listening I want you to imagine when you listen to him he's wrapped in a blanket and he's kind of like leaning up up against the wall and his body language is very submissive and very like I'm not having a good time here okay listen to this grilling this BS about 3:00 in tubs and it's crap it's crap you know it's crap it's a crappy story sorry it's ping um I appreciate the things that you've said in the genuine um consideration and thoughtfulness um behind when he tells the cop that he appreciates her I think she just about you know was controlling her Fury here with her like please yeah no and you know and and here in as you aptly pointed out in our first case we have somebody who is not uh living up to the you know rules and guidelines of their profession and in the second case you have a a detective who is doing a phenomenal job maintaining her composure asking questions and um you know and you know I saw that clip where he does look quite uh I don't know what's the right word he looks a bit disheveled he looks as you said submissive he looks um overwhelmed um but she maintains her calm and composure and continues to ask questions I also think you know a detective in this case is very well aware that the forensic evidence is going to be the primary uh the the primary evidence and the fact that you can't place anyone else in the home at the time that she dies and the medical examiner is saying conclusively a murder you know she all of course in her in a perfect world she'd get a confession right there whatever but all she needs to do is make sure he's afforded his rights he's listened to he's given a chance to put forth a statement she's very well aware that this case is I don't know if that it's a slam dunk but because we can't produce anyone else in the house at the time the woman dies and it seems conclusive that she was murdered you know she just needs to make sure that the that the appropriate questions are asked that he has a chance to respond and in a best case scenario maybe he would admit to the the he admit to The Killing but yeah she does a very good job she even said him you've been fake crying for eight hours yet not one tear has come out she's brutal yeah yeah no I know it she she's like the uh she she's like the best mother you could ever hope for right she's like holding you accountable you are not getting out of this this is you just fess up or at least be quiet but your story is not you this is I'm not being sold on this story yeah here's another exchange from the interrogation the evidence and her body speak for itself and your story is BS she's she spoton yes the evidence and her body speak for itself no matter what crazy story this man comes up with right right so if she can get a confession great if she can't like I said this is a case that should be um fairily easy for the prosecutor to close given the a level of um damage done to the body the level of injury done to the body and also like you said we have two pieces of testimony that don't make any sense where's the wet where is the half waterer tub thing and also why is there so much blood in the bedroom exactly very good points so it was several months later before he was arrested he was arrested on August 30th of 2018 charged with first-degree murder now you may be asking yourself why if this happened in 2018 are we only getting to trial in 2023 I have some answers for you so David's case had multiple delays and the very first one in 2021 was that David's attorney at the time said to the judge he is not competent to stand trial he says the man is a schizophrenic and therefore cannot stand trial so at that point there apparently was enough medical evidence um to show that he had some serious competency issues and he was declared at that moment incompetent and then he was sent to a state hospital two years after being in a psychiatric facility he's finally deemed well enough to stand trial okay then in January of 2023 when we now have a judges ruling that David is competent to stand trial and they're scheduled to go well there's another delay M David fires his attorney he claims that his attorney has a serious conflict of interests whatever that may be and so then finally David Gets a public defender and then David pleads not guilty to one charge of first degree murder and so now the trial has begun October 12th is when the trial began in Earnest those have been the delays I know that you're not an attorney Tracy However the fact that lots of defendants will say that they are incompetent can't stand trial Insanity defense you know everybody tries this one some people are truly ill the fact that he has been determined to be mentally incompetent for two years of this process Tracy do you see this working its way into the defense and that could be if anything if any juror does show any comp passion toward no Tracy's not having it no so competency to stand trial is so misunderstood by the general public first of all it's nearly impossible like it's less than 1% of cases there is a competency to stand trial even deliberation when it happens most of the time the judge doesn't accept it because the competency standard is pretty low like you don't you know you don't have to be functioning you don't have to be literate you don't have to be well adjusted you just have to know that you are on the planet Earth on this day um so the the competency requirements are pretty low you just you you really need to just be aware you can process information so then there are cases like David's in which there is a competency issue and a judge can say fine I remand you to an institution because most competency cases the individual can be brought to competency perhaps they're off their medication perhaps there was some sort of um sporadic uh event that occurred or some sort of acute reaction so then people can be brought back to competency as he was once you're deemed competent to stand trial it proceeds um and the other thing people don't realize is you're better off not being incompetent okay because if you are deemed incompetent you can be institutionalized for your entire life incompetency and remanded to an institution you it it's indefinite and so or there's another thing that could happen he could be found guilty but by reason of insanity again you're remanded to an institution for an indefinite period of time and and what we know from research is that most individuals who are either deemed incompetent but it's a it's a murder charge so there's some level of dangerousness they are remanded to an institution for longer than they would have been incarcerated so a lot of people think oh it's the easy way out well you end up serving usually more time if but the first and most important issue it's very nearly impossible to um be deemed incompetent and uh to stand trial so that you never stand trial for your behavior well the case is going on right now and I have no idea when it's going to get to the jury it's possible it could get to the jury by the end of the week a lot depends on whether um what kind of a defense David's team puts on again the defense is saying that the wife's death was an unfortunate accident prosecution disg Reeves we will be following this case and we'll let you know what the verdict is well it is time for our comment section these are the crime cases you all are talking about on social media and our producer will Updike is here now you look like you're in a dungon over there will but you're honestly you're at the at our offices yep yep at the offices this is this is where they keep me uh usually I don't do this segment from here um you know I get a little free time but today it is what it is uh we still got a great case for you this one is all about a McFlurry of poor decisions leading to a very unhappy meal this K you know Tracy you know what it is my f i get my favorite criminologist on here I get my favorite genre of crime on here uh it's you know it's it's going to be a good time this comes out of wakesha uh Wisconsin where a woman was arrested and it took while she was arrested a full month after she allegedly made threatening comments to McDonald's employees because some of her french fries were burned some is kind of a key aspect here so suspect Rita I mean because you know I sometimes I like those really crispy little bits okay I I allegedly these were Beyond crispy okay Beyond crispy and usually McDonald's doesn't do them super crispy no they don't they don't it's not really their thing um you know you can ask at in and out Brer you can ask for extra crispy yeah oh I usually I usually do okay I'm sorry McDonald's has way better fries though than in and- out so no way absolutely not like not even they used to back in the day when I had my ninth birthday party at a McDonald's but not anymore also the like the pro move at McDonald's is you say you want fries no salt and they make a fresh fresh batch oh really yeah I didn't know that yeah but then they tasteless without any salt oh I mean you could still get the salt on the side you just say you you're watching your sodium I need the salt on the side we digress you're trying to tell us about a case anyways back to back to our actual crime now that now that we've given you some tips on how to order fast food if that's your preference uh suspect here Bonita gotch went into the fast food chain purchased a meal ate the meal there when she finished she allegedly approached the counter and started criticizing the fact that there was a burnt end on some of her leftover fries so couple of things on this to me it's not every fry you know every fry wasn't burned um and you finished the meal um I I think a complaint after You' finished the meal to me as always A Bridge Too Far a bridge too far and it was kind of a bridge to very harsh sometimes you know you finished the meal like how bad could it have been right I'm with you on that will um yeah but I think because of finishing the meal employees they're trying to deal with this I I guess maybe they weren't willing to you know offer a new set of fries or something but our suspect here gotchu attempted to make her way into the kitchen to make herself a new order uh according to court documents and when an employee tried to stop her obviously not supposed to be in there um this is when she kind of escalates things she starts arguing with the employees and she claimed that this McDonald's worker was a drug dealer and then she continued to try to make her way to the kitchen and said that all of the McDonald's employees were selling drugs and would get arrested and then goes even further of course as they always do in this segment apparently at this point godsha claimed that she had a weapon and was going to shoot up the restaurant now authorities are on their way she was reportedly already leaving the McDonald's when the police officers arrived she did not have any weapons on her according to police so this was just sort of an an empty threat thankfully no no no true threat of violence even going on there um but they filed this criminal complaint like I said nearly a month after this happened she's being charged with disorderly cond conduct in her next court date is scheduled for October 19th also just a side note for this story if if anybody remembers the old crime watch days where they would go knocking on people's doors uh a local news station Fox 6 went to knock on gots Chalk's door uh on October 11th reportedly nobody answered um but that's just a nice little side note if you've been with the crime family for a long time oh and do you miss knocking on doors I do not miss knocking on doors I do not I do not and I had an incredible like my my statistics for like getting who I was looking for were like 99% there's only one person that they sent me out to get the whole time of crime watch Daily who I didn't get no way yes way yes way who was it do you remember Garcia shoots she scores okay yeah incredible it well it's hard because the thing is it's all about a stake out it's just like you know you know you sit there you're looking for patterns you have to make sure you have the right person you know you follow the person you have to be in a public area you it also needs to be a very safe moment you know when you're approaching someone yeah um you know um and you've got camera and sound tailing you too right yeah but I you know there are other you know stories it's like wow I mean there there was one that we always talk about where I knocked on a door and they were really mad and the lady came out with a with one of those like heavy frying pans like a skillet it's like oh okay I'm out of here I'm out of here you know and then there was I wasn't working for crime watch at the time but I was chasing someone it was a pretty serious case and knocking on the door and I'm like can you hear someone in there like it sounded like there was someone in there but I couldn't really here that well um and then as we leave the scene the guy follows us into a parking lot and then he pummels my um producer who by the way producers birthday is today happy birthday Fred umy birthday and literally while I'm on the phone trying to explain to management what is going on and why you know we've called 911 we're waiting for the authorities I'm literally I turned and the next and I turn back to look at Fred and there's blood coming down his face I'm like what happened I was I literally turn away for a second to to explain to management why I believe that you know we are in trouble and and finally you know everything gets settled and we're just like we just want to get everyone out of here and the the LAPD pulls me aside and he says to me the um I'll never forget this conversation he said to me you knock on someone's door I mean what what do you ever bother to think about that you could literally be walking into a drug deal or something else what do you think is going to happen when you randomly knock on someone's door especially if they are you know someone with a criminal history and I think about that all the time what exactly I'm terrified anytime someone knocks on my door like what exactly did I think was gonna happen like how is this supposed to end well so yeah no I'm not not not a big fan of the knock knocks uh I love this aside uh anyways getting back to our suspect here uh with the empty thread of shooting up a McDonald's people had a lot to say about this uh Quan y had an interesting one they said they need to change the oil more so the fries can be crisp and fresh I feel her pain um listeners won't get to see this but I'll I'll display the comment this is an all caps comment they feel very strongly about the changing of the oil um I'm I'm with it I'm with it I I'm I'm not I don't know that much about frying things but it seems hyper important jde said I'm blaming McDonald's on this one fries burnt ice cream machine never works which is I I forget about I'm happy for this comment because anytime you go to a McDonald's and you're hoping for a little sweet treat that thing is always broken mine is not I go to the one here in Hollywood yeah oh wow well see there's the tip if you're in the LA area make a trip over to Hollywood Drive in Hollywood very big you know nice good turning area Wendy's they manag to keep their ice cream machine working all the time I've never had Wendy's ice cream but you know they charge you for extra chocolate syrup if you ask like you know now it's it's already chocolate ice cream oh no no I get vanilla with the chocolate syrup but you know you have to ask for the extra and then they charge you right go go figure now that is the stuff that enrages me more than a little burnt french fry go on um Kyle B had a self-deprecating comment they said as a McDonald's worker do it I'm very tired just I I I'm just joking on this one I hope all service workers are doing well be be sure to be sure to tip your servers um and just be nice to everyone in customer service Cubans said well I'm sure people have said worse Adam McDonald's which for me this comment Takes the Cake I I this probably wasn't even the worst thing the employees heard that week though hopefully the rest of them didn't involve any any sort of threats of personal violence um but yeah that that's going to do it for this week's comment section thank you so much to everyone who left those you can do that over on our YouTube Community page and tease this out we also have a special guest coming on a comment section here very soon so stay tuned for that I'm so excited I can't believe this until next time uh thank you so much bye well bye thank you Tracy you are absolutely a fan favorite here because your perspective on the criminal justice system is different from so many of our guests who are former prosecutors or defense attorneys you give us the explanation you give us the context big picture and I think we always learned something because you're a professor and so we learned something so thank you for that you're so welcome I try not to be too boring or pedantic but I do want to provide some sort of balance these these stories are you know um they they're very eye-catching they draw us to these stories crime stories have for at least a hundred years captured the the attention of the media and the general public but also there are mundane things that need to be explored like the purpose of Justice or what does what does this mean philosophically what does this represent for the the system so I really appre appreciate you always giving me a space to not just talk about the case but also what's happening in the system behind the case I appreciate this platform oh you're just such a fan favorite so Tracy since last you were on you you you went Kicking and Screaming into social media so where can people find you okay so I am now at Tracy dot is that how you say it Tracy with the perod Tambora how do you say it tracy. Tambora yes Instagram okay I'm trying to get into the 21st century you can also find me at the University of New Haven if you want to link to my um academic work so I appreciate you Anna you gave me the push to get this social media I'm just not good at it I'm trying it's fine it's fine I follow you it's you yes you're one of four people thank you all right well you can find me at Anna G news on all social media even on Tik Tok occasionally put something on Tik Tok so um thank you so much everyone for joining us this week you can find this episode and all of our episodes wherever you get your podcast subscribe to our YouTube channel we're very excited about that we're going to have someone on one of our subscribers hey and then you can get our newsletter at true crimedaily.com so until next week I'm your host Anna Garcia and as we always say don't do crime

Channel: True Crime Daily

Views: 144,756

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Id: UFJO86KpWb0

Length: 69min 21sec (4161 seconds)

Published: Fri Oct 20 2023