Journey Home - Former Mormon - Marcus Grodi with Barry Metzentine - 11-29-2010

[Music] good evening and welcome to the journey home this is Marcus Grodi your host for this program every week I have this great privilege that EWTN has granted to me to introduce to you men and women who have been brought home to the Catholic Church if you watch the program over a period of time you know that the Holy Spirit uses all different ways to open our hearts and our minds sometimes gently a gentle nudge sometimes a bowling ball whatever it is to get our attention and over the years I will say that you your letters and emails have not only affirmed that this program has been an encouragement to you but you've also let us know that certain guests who come from certain backgrounds are always a particular interest to you possibly because you have certain people knocking on your door and you're wondering how do we answer them so tonight is one of those programs our guest tonight is Barry met Centene he's a former Mormon how would you say former nothing from a Mormon former nothing and now Catholic and he's also an active server of the faith in the church and so it's a great privilege to welcome you Barry taking the journey home program it's good to have you here it's an honor and a privilege as I mentioned to the audience always good to inform warm and talk about the journey and on the church bill to the church but before we get into the start of your story just to begin by letting the audience know what you're doing now that you're a Catholic sure I have the honor and privilege of working for the Catholic Church and a parish Our Lady of fátima Lakewood Colorado I work with the youth and the adult ministry there's a variety of opportunities there from high school as I say I work with 15 years to 115 or beyond if necessary just young yes of course sharing and and helping the forum folks in the faith the real privilege oh and it is a great privilege then you're doing I mean later in the program I talk about some of the unique challenges of working with that wide age group especially we try to do it all at the same time no no you know I have lots of help lots of hell it's what we normally do in a journey home as I get out of the way as soon as possible and invite you to go all the way back to the beginning and give us a glimpse of your beginning of your spiritual journey yep I can do that I think it's to start by saying I grew up pretty ordinary life but unchurched in in all regards I mean the times that I went to church growing up in my youth was lesson 10 probably five or six times your parents weren't members anymore no not formally did themselves really yeah there was a sense of of God in a sense of Jesus you know Christmas was Jesus's birthday and and I remember a couple times actually my mother trying to bring scripture into the house but really to no avail so largely just unformed unchurched a general sense you know if you were to ask me are you a Christian I'd say yes but did I really understand that no so more of a culture yeah Charles absolutely absolutely but but yeah a pretty ordinary life here wasn't a part of your life no no I had not experienced prayer actually until after high school and I was in the military US Air Force and that's when I met my encounter with the Mormon Church actually okay even before that disaster like did have you thought about the big questions when you're a young man did was God in the equation at all hmm you know it's actually coming to mind now when I was very young I did have a sense of God in a pretty profound way and I'm talking seven eight years old young to the point there was I remember now there was a couple years where I had some pretty fantastic dreams and and saw God actually in heaven well and that I heard my name spoken a few times to the point I remember my mom still remembers this I'd run downstairs they did you call me my grandmother my mom's mother was in tune with that aspect of my life and actually talked to me about that but other than that I have to say it was pretty minimal again just a general I believe in God sure but not really knowing and understanding who but do you look back on those early visitations as as a Lord trying to get your attention at least planting a seed oh absolutely I think because of that I did have that sense that there is a God and now that you you bring it forward I yes that was significant in that it did provide some grounding some sense of meaning and purpose growing up a little touch of the mercy of God really oh absolutely before you get you into the Mormon Church one other question did that little sense of God have effect on your moral life your ethical life anything until the Mormon Church or to some degree I mean I knew the basics of morality to the point you know you shouldn't do these things but it didn't really affect me too greatly I was a decent child growing up but I had my my moment oh yeah the Catholic Church at all no well actually yes now that you need to bring that up in high school I had the well in junior high school I was going off the deep end and I think my parents knew that and so they they moved quite suddenly out of the Portland Oregon area where I grew up to Central Oregon which is very much like this area rule as I saw it was hickville USA at the time but it was the greatest thing they did because it took me away from a life that at that point was was leading me to drugs and gangs and just not a not a good place to go and now I'm out in the middle of nowhere and in that I actually hooked up and met some Catholic folks I did not know or have a comprehension of what that meant but there were just some good kids and actually had an opportunity straight my life out got into sports played football wrestling track tried basketball but but too many too many fouls so I had go back football but yeah there was a group of kids that were Catholics I look back now I realized that I didn't wasn't overtly aware of that but they would invite me over and I would actually participate in kind of an underground life teen if you will where they play music and they'd sing and then they'd pray and that was pretty interesting to me I was drawn to it but I was still you know not really present to it so there was that there was that encounter I think really is good when we look back and see the different ways that the Lord touched our life you know just little seeds and little town that's true that later come to fruition in his timing so the Mormon life came into you right yeah that happened it did well like I said out of high school I went into the US Air Force and I'd been in the service two years pretty much keeping to myself and I went to reach out to a friend of mine from high school who lived in Utah and ended up driving up there I was stationed in New Mexico and met her did not know she was Mormon and met her friend her roommate who was also Mormon and we struck up her friend and I struck up a relationship that continued and we continue to dialogue long-distance and what struck me was very early in the relationship telling me why Mormon and that's very significant to me and you're not and while I have feelings for you this is kind of an issue I was like that caught my attention never before it anybody presented something of such passion to me about it conveyed yeah and so driven in relationship as a young man I said alright I'll check this out and so I had a lovely couple actually more most people know Mormon missionaries as the young men or women that come to their door I was blessed with this older couple they were in their 70s and they were on a mission and you know I'm away from home and I'm coming to their their little humble home in Alamogordo New Mexico and I went through the teachings and I was struck I was like this sounds great this is a great story it makes sense to me because they start the story with and we'll come back to this I hope with three questions that really caught my attention where do we come from why are we here and where are we going hit the big philosophic sack right and and they frame their whole faith around answering those universal questions and I was drawn into it and having no real understanding of God or the nature of Christianity it was just very attractive very attractive so with that relationship with my with my Mormon missionaries with my relationship with who became my first wife and her family also to embrace me I was swept in and it just really was a great experience for me to have a sense of identity to have a sense of wow I understand these questions that that are in our hearts but now I understand it in a way that has context and meaning so it was very powerful for me to come into that experience at the time I've often heard at least the accusation that Mormons sometimes use evangelistic dating yes I think there's probably some truth to that but it was not the intention of this young lady at that point I mean we met we were attracted to each other as young men and women are and because of her passion of the faith it was important to her but I'm I know that this wasn't the reason if you will but it does happen and frankly particularly with the young adults the faith is very attractive they have a lot of energy a lot of passion they really the time they're handsome and asking those big questions exactly exactly so yeah it does happen I'm aware of that and I'm also aware of that well and even if that wasn't her goal on the one hand it didn't stop her her commitment to Mormonism didn't stop her from from dating a Gentile exactly she just said right up in front you know I mean if we're gonna continuous dating you know where I'm coming from so right up front that she says right within the first week yes okay there it is okay right up rock you got married we did I was married in the Mormon Church prior to that though I went through their lessons it's an eight-week lessons and they do a brilliant job of presenting the faith and I was baptized and I key in the name of the in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit full immersion all right which they understand to be the only valid form of baptism okay and then I lived for a year as a Mormon married civilly married in a church but not ultimately sealed which is deep in the core of their faith is the purpose of marriage as man and woman come together they're sealed in their words for all time and eternity and this happens in their temples and I experienced that a year after of course being in the faith and demonstrating living a life of fidelity and then came and had that experience and then we were continued to be married we had a child my daughter who's 26 now and but as life would have it the marriage came to an end four and a half years down the road after I exited the Air Force and yeah it was you never there's never anything good about separation but right but at that point then my relationship with the church shortly thereafter was severed through my own your own decision my own decisions had in those five years though had the faith become yours you know had you really adapt adopted the Mormon faith during those years of your marriage or fully I fully embraced it I'm a pretty passionate person and and I felt this is it the story is very compelling they we have the truth everyone else is wrong that's very compelling from a religious standpoint and our goal is we are going to come out and and bring the restored gospel of Jesus Christ to the world a world that has been in a state of darkness for nearly eighteen hundred years because you believe basically immediately it was lost after Jerry soon thereafter at the death of the last apostle and by certainly the council of ephesus or council of nicaea excuse me it was completely corrupt and the priesthood which is very important and was removed from the earth and the church then fell into complete apostasy they call it the great apostasy and this is the grounds then for the need to bring back the restored gospel of Jesus Christ to the world that had been living in darkness for so long yeah very powerful and so in that I served the church in a variety of roles was very committed and experienced you know some very powerful experiences as community as just living the family centered life and of helping and serving others there's there's there's great merit in that and I want to emphasize that there's a lot of good here good people doing good things but unfortunately you know the theology and the reason for it is flawed had you they have a slightly different view of the Trinity and the divinity and humanity of Christ right and even though the father and our relationship had you it was that clear up in front Christel flare and it isn't always with all Mormons right but again because of my enthusiasm I studied I read the doctor in covenants I read The Book of Mormon I read the Bible and I completely brought it into my life and I would you know and you have to begin with the Trinity and first off they don't see it as a trinity as we do it's actually quite different they see it as three persons they call it the personhood they see God the Father as actually having flesh and and being a glorified being they see the son Jesus Christ as a spiritual elder brother to all of us who took on the atonement if you will and then was assumed into the godhood as a second person and then they have the Holy Ghost which they see and understand as spirit that binds them in purpose and unity but definitely three distinct beings three different persons not one nature three persons but three and Satan is the rebellious brother he is Lucifer is the rebellious brother and they believe in pre-existence lie where we all were present as spiritual children and there was this battle this and Lucifer of course was cast out and Jesus our elder brother stepped up and God knowing that we would need atonements that I will I will take this role on and in doing so in his faithfulness we then look to Jesus Christ to find our necessary atonement in that and that we too then can be assumed and become glorified beings to propagate if you will this plan of salvation that our Heavenly Father has given us is the the idea that as a Mormon once you die if you were faithful Mormon you will essentially become a God of your own plan or do universe is that yes that's the ultimate destiny that requires a sealing here on earth for all time and eternity between man and woman so you and your wife would have been the new God and goddess of that absolutely oh that's the ultimate journey and the belief of what this progresses to they also do believe though and degrees of heaven and and the highest being what we're talking about the celestial kingdom of where men and women sealed become God goddesses of their own world so that they then can replicate spiritual children and then offer them the choice to participate in this path of glorification of deification in that sense but they have lesser degrees of heaven and and there is as that's been explained and further modified in recent history some faithful Catholics even would would have an opportunity to experience a degree of heaven but not to the greatest extent oh I always cracks me up that all the all the most successful and most profitable day-planner day-timer programs are always kind of run by the Mormons connections and I wonder if that's a little bit of Mormon theology coming down into organizing life and being very disciplined because you're preparing yourself for the long term that's absolutely correct very orderly very organized and it does is very attractive to the orderly in society there's a lot of professionals that are attracted to this it's clean its systematic it has all the answers from the beginning to the end and this is how it's accomplished so it's it's very much in that sense also though in recent times there's been a lot of their missionary work has been to third world countries and what they're doing there is they're bringing you know coming to the needs of the poor and people are coming into the faith because of the sense of their taking care of us or building community around that so I don't want to think that's just the professionals button right yes there is a very much a sense of orderliness and it's a very attractive to those that like order yeah very attractive options so you were into this hook line and sinker oh yes but then when your marriage falls apart you just drop it well not immediately there was you know outreach the that they gave and they did not want to see me leave but in the course of that separation there were of course in my side improprieties of my life that that I felt bad about and I was doing things that I knew I should not be doing it so I went to they have a form of confession it's not where you go to their Bishop who is the ward over a community award they call it kind of like a parish and so I remember going to a bishop and having this very private conversation about some sins that I was struggling with and I remember them the response as I was getting were confusing to me because the asked me point-blank you says is this a sister or is this a Gentile and I looked at them and I'm thinking to myself I didn't say anything like does that matter and that was when I started to and then there were some other things that happen to conversations that I started to see and understand the human factor behind the church and Justin doubting and when that first seeds of doubt started to happen then it just cascaded over me and I came to a realization and this was very shattering in my life whereas oh my gosh this is not it isn't true and I had it just crushed me and at that point I felt so betrayed because my whole life I had never really had anything and now I've got this beautiful systematic it's all laid out I'm very much embracing it and then I come to find out that it's not true that there's something not right here and I remember making the decision I didn't stop believing in God but I said verbally I'm done I'm through I've been betrayed I don't need you God and I just transitioned my life at that point to where as I tell my friends I fully embraced the secular world entered into a decade of darkness and did everything that the world told me to do you know I went after my education my career my successes and I burned a lot of relationships in the process of that it's not a very proud time but that's where it led me because I was so betrayed and I just said enough I can't I can't deal with this so that you know that I've heard this in a variety of people people who get very into end times thinking you know and where they think you know it's at the end of the world it's gonna happen next month or maybe even the Catholics will get very much into certain apparitions that that predict that it's going to happen two months or you know and so their lives can very dedicated and commit to that but when it comes and passes and doesn't happen not only do they just say okay I was wrong in that but they start doubting everything because am I going to invest myself into something else and get hurt again exactly and so you for 10 years you're not gonna invest yourself in anything because you were so blindsided I mean that's that's exactly right I invested myself and myself and I became very self-centered and selfish and you know motivated too I'm gonna make my life happen as the world is telling me it needs to happen and I'm gonna take advantage of that and I don't have I don't want anything to do with God it was very very overt about that the Lord had touched you earlier on as a child a couple little things you know I think you're going into Mormonism and then I go through this ten years of darkness did the Lord touch you at all during those 10 years were there anything in there you know she look back and I was pretty gone but there were this is something when I in my current role when I talk with people coming to the faith I can acknowledge you know you never altom utley are not aware and I don't believe that I don't believe in true a theism I believe that there is always something deep down it may be shrouded that may be you know you put a you put a brick wall around it but there's something inside of us that tells us this isn't right I'm doing things that really shouldn't be doing it but so I had some of that but I was I was pretty gone and then at some point you know I think you make the switch and you realize all right even if he does exist I'm so long gone that there's no chance you know is that whole prodigal son yeah syndrome there's there's no chance that there's any path to return from this so you just keep going and that's when you starts experiencing okay I've experienced everything of the flesh and of the world I come up empty of course and now instead of now you're feeling well but I'm so far gone there's no hope so now you enter the period of your life where it's it's just anxious and restless and not satisfied and that's kind of where I was when I met my current wife of 12 years she met me as I was coming out of those dark years but still in a very much' state of restlessness and and anxiety and the whole affair and you could caught up in the voices of the world the flesh and the devil during the dark years and it's hard to tell or listen anymore and the discern is that a good thing for me or is that my own self speaking out when really it might be the evil one trying to just pull you deeper in into the darkness so did you start to come out of it before you met your present wife no she did spark I think she was the spark I was put still pretty fully embracing the the world now I I do have two older children a 26 year old daughter which I mention from my first marriage and I have a 19 year old son that was part of my journeys during this time and another decision I had made that and I want people particularly fathers to know this I made some decisions that I just horrible you know I I I separated myself from my children for years my daughter I did not see from the time she was four until she was well sixteen well and that that that that's that's hurtful and my son same thing he came and I didn't acknowledge the situation and I abandoned it and I want father's to know that just you know if you're in those situations as a father make the efforts to reach out now fortunately through the graces of my conversion I have relationship with both of my children now but I realize looking back just how much of a wound that is the father won't particularly that is inflicted on the children through this and you know time did you not want to see them or you just kept pushing it down pushing it back I kept pushing it down Wow yeah I pushed it down because in the early separation time I felt that they were using my daughter as kind of a you know saying oh you know she's praying for your soul and I'm just like she's two and a half years old praying for my soul but there were some things that happened and and I selfishly an inappropriately made decision I said you know what it's best just to cut the ties because I don't want her to be but then in doing that well you know a wounded me and then I'm just become the walking wounded in my life because of it it wasn't good and but again thanks to the graces of God those relationships are back in my life have been for several years now and I'm just delighted to have that back in my life and appreciating but that wasn't until after you started coming out of the dark period that's right that's right I met my my current wife in 1993 and we had a 5-year off-and-on relationship and her amount of her patience and grace with me was inspiring to say the least I I have no idea what kept her compelled to keep us in relationship I course now see it because she was really a gateway for me into the faith and unassuming as she was about it but I have to say this I remember we had been dating for about six months you know I asked her I said so you're Catholic oh yeah I knew this I go so you go to church every Sunday oh yeah and she went something did something on Wednesday nights I go really I said well what do you know what are you doing there you know and I'll never forget her response and she doesn't remember it but it was a profound she said I go and I commune with Jesus Christ and I was like I remember to this day when she said that blew me away that I've never heard anybody say anything like that that was over-the-top why don't we pause there it's a good place to break we'll come back in a moment you can tell us really how the Lord used those five years to to bring you home all right sounds good [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] welcome back to the journey home our guest this evening is very Metzen teen and former mormon and you've you've given us your mormon phase a very committed mormon well informed mormon then about ten years or so of darkness because completely i just go back to where you were before but really going back and rejecting any outreach and then you meet a catholic and you dated her five years well until you got married right that's right did you were you full fledged in the church after those five years of dedo no no no that's the interesting part I came into the Catholic Church in a Catholic marriage I was not Catholic at that time in fact I had built the annulment process as a non Catholic which was an interesting experience and with that then was able to my wife was able to have a full Catholic marriage Mass and I remember when that married and that mass the whole experience for me was very mystical I was like this is pretty different then the first time around and it was significant and meaningful to me but for the first seven years of our marriage I continued to live as a non non any go to Mass with your wife at all initially not a lot but then as the years wore on I started going more and more to the point where when we got married we moved from Green Bay to Denver Colorado and I remember thinking yeah I want to share this with her in the best way that I can which at the time I was thinking I'd I'm not sure as a non Catholic what can you do in the church so we actually went and found a parish and within a year we found some great ministries small face sharing group ministries where all of a sudden now I'm with my wife we're meeting with other Catholics next thing I know I'm being asked to be part of that ministry core team to represent the non Catholic perspective then another year later the pastor asked me he says bury father kin Leone god bless him he said berry he said you need to start up a mixed faith couples ministry and and so then my wife and I started mixed faith couples ministry again I being the non Catholic in this and then a year after that father before I go there oh sure are they have they given up on you considering faith or they just assuming in time you know that's a great question I think there was never really any overt you need to become Catholic it was more of an embracing and just letting me be as I was I never felt any pressure whatsoever from the priest or from the folks I was working with on staff and anyway then the next thing I know he's asking me down the parish council I'm like father kid I'm not Catholic oh that's okay we need a non Catholic perspective and so I'm I serve on a parish council in a mixed faith ministry and small face sharing ministry core teams as a non Catholic and that was all of this of course is bringing me in to be embraced and to and to be comfortable and at this point I am attending Mass pretty regularly and it was in that during that time that on my business side things were happening that enabled me to become more present to God in my life as we know God finds those moments and for me it was a massive business failure attempt that I failed at and therefore found myself sitting idle pondering that had just happened and at the same time I'm growing more curious about the faith and I enrolled in Catholic biblical school which is a four-year Catholic Bible study program out of Denver's phenomenal program at the time dr. Tim gray was had started that he was leading it and he was actually teaching my class and Tim and I Tim took a liking to me and and we started talking and he knew I wasn't Catholic and so we had a relationship there anyway into the second year of Catholic biblical school I'm now thinking about this is looking pretty good and I wanted to I'm still now working part time God is he enabling me and my failure to be present that's whom and now all of a sudden people in events he's just hurling at me because the the thing that was important to me and God knew this he knows what's important to all of us because I was so convicted of the truth of the Mormon Church he knew I needed to have an even more conviction of the truth of the Catholic Church and so in my seeking first for the Catholic biblical school and then I started pursuing through Catholic distance University I started taking online courses like a catechism course and I'll never forget that I went through the Catechism I this is the most fantastic piece of logic ever read my life so you know the truth the content is for me it was drawing me and deeper and deeper because it was so important I need to know not just in faith I need to know all the ins and outs of this faith and so God was providing gave me Catholic biblical school he gave me some classes on the Catechism and then in the midst of this Tim calls me up and says hey remember that graduate program I was telling you about what we're starting it up and I want you to I want you to sign up and I'm like Tim I'm not Catholic he goes that's okay we don't tell anybody and so my first leaving at this point they're still not pushing you and say wait a second you gotta come into the church you're still just kind of let yeah let the spirit the on that journey I was on or maybe you appeared as such a stone wall they'd said well you know what I mean he's not quite ready yet yeah well you know I think there were there are some prodding --zz along the way but what was happening was also some some necessary healing and if I go back a couple years at the beginning of this when I was getting into the ministry aspect of the Catholic Church the person that and that was heading this ministry small communities Nancy Parks was a great gift I mean she opened up for me my path that I needed for healing and this was good four years before I came into the church I had a mystical encounter and that mystical encounter was something I needed and it was with God the Father because I was so wounded as a man as a father and I've never known my true father I was horrible in my early years with my two eldest children and and I didn't know how bad it was but I had a mystical encounter with God the Father and I experienced it was it was an amazing experience because in an instant I realized how wounded I am but at the same time I experienced true fatherhood and it healed me and at that point going forward I now have in that sense of this is what it means to be a father my son and now I'm able to take that and it was with that I was able to begin reaching out to my children from previous years and yeah incredible healing moment that opened me up then to coming into further experiencing through ministry then I started experience in small group settings the power of the Holy Spirit and sitting in small groups as this non Catholic leading Catholics and small faith sharing and all of a sudden just feeling the Holy Spirit as a wave come rushing in and out and around the room I'm like what is going on this is fantastic I've never had this feeling before it was a Holy Spirit and realizing they had nothing to do with me I was just this channel that happened to to feel the effects of it as a come rushing into the moment and so that was that was incredibly powerful for me but through that I ultimately still was struggling with my relationship with Jesus Christ I never really in all the studies Catholic Bible school the Agustin Institute and all the great theology and everything I was receiving I still wasn't able to hadn't had an encounter with Jesus Christ God the Father got it Holy Spirit got it then then it happened and it didn't happen until of course when it needed to so I'm in RCIA at the same time I'm in my last four years of Catholic biblical school I'm in my first year of Augustan Institute and I'm in our CIA this was a powerful year and I came into the church at you know through Easter Vigil I was a catechumen because now the church had determined that the baptism wasn't valid right and I encountered Jesus Christ at Easter Vigil and it nearly killed me and the puzzle was now complete I had now experienced nearly killed you it did and yet I mean I'm coming down I was baptized it was great at the time I had my three-week old son Joshua we're both baptized the same time fantastic experience I was confirmed I'm like this is great this is wonderful and I'm on my knees and I the audacity to say I want more I need more I need to know you and I'll never forget you know the voice that came and he said simply as he always does I'll meet you in the Eucharist and it was an incredible experience one that it's one of those I need nothing else in my life this is it I'm done as I'm walking down I'll never forget it my wife on one side my sponsor on the other I'm walking down to receive the Eucharist and each step I'm taking on becoming more and more aware as I'm walking into the presence of Jesus Christ and and in an instant I had another mystical encounter and I realized in this instant I had a complete understanding of who he is first he's God he's own evident and second there is this incredible respect and dignity that God has in our human nature because he holds it in him perfectly and at the same time realizing how broken we are in our nature just saw how broken we are in her nature but yet God holds that up and such a dignified way truly God sees our human nature in its perfection as he holds it there for us so having that encounter I was on the floor I crumpled down I screamed out there's a thousand people I scream out I am not worthy I couldn't do it I just broke down so I'm a puddled heap on the floor and my wife and my sponsor trying to pick me up and the priest god bless them it takes the host then he just does the body of Christ and puts it in my mouth and I'm on my knees at this point receiving Christ into me and I was physically aware as it came as he came in just the waves that came through my whole body and permanent me and then I had the whole thing repeat with the with the blood of Christ so I had my mystical encounter with Jesus Christ and now for me my understanding of the Trinity was complete and the blessings are unbelievable what that has given me and yeah changed me forever here I am you were you were blessed with a sensual experience of the Trinity that most folk aren't you know and that doesn't take away from the validity of other people's experience because that wasn't a part of it and then we want to make sure the audience sure doesn't want to take away from this but it but yet maybe as you look back why do you think the Lord discerned in his wisdom that you needed this I think because of my doctrine ation into the Mormon faith my understanding of who God was I that really needed to be rewritten yeah at the core because even after that is reformatting a hard drive agonal exactly what do you need because the Mormon faith and I realized it as I was in my Advanced Studies at a Gustin Institute how much of that was still seeping in hmm I remember it makes sense that that took you so long to understand Jesus yeah still had those categories when I did from before I did and I think that's a big part of it I think that God the Father part was necessary because of my brokenness and my fatherhood the Holy Spirit was just showing me how the Spirit is permeating everything and that's how God's working with the church the Holy Spirit II I mean he is there always and then finally with Jesus Christ that was necessary because I was not making the connection that he's God He is God but yet he holds in him our humanity and perfection and the dignity and the respect that he has for us and yet at the same time realizing how broken we are yeah so yeah I like that as a reset reboot to get that hard drive cleaned out and start afresh and now we can build up from that yeah and it was important for me because I prayed I prayed for two hours I fasted for like 36 hours prior to Easter Vigil the two hours prior to it I was in prayer I went and hid myself in a closet and I was praying just desperately because God knew I need to know I need to know I need to know that this is right that this is true that this is really where it's at and as he always does he delivered in spades he knows you better than you knew yourself and what you needed and how that would work absolutely actually bring to fruition those little taps of grace that you had experience will be back when you know that we're still there I've got an email let me take this because this Chad from Maine writes I have a Mormon co-worker who is a wonderful person and and we're good friends occasionally the subject of religion comes up and I would like to know how best to share with her the good news of the Catholic Church without alienating her or destroying our friendship does Barry have any suggestions Thank You Chad for them that's a fantastic question but I was asked because I talked to Catholics all the time how to dialogue with Mormons and there's two different there's the relationship here and then there's the missionaries but this being in a co-worker the first thing I would say is don't be afraid to just be yourself and to acknowledge that there are things in the Mormon faith that we really can dialogue particularly as it relates to community to the importance of family to the importance of living a moral life do not be afraid to say yeah then you know we we agree this is these are these are beautiful teachings of the faith and then the other thing is is not to be afraid to share what the Catholic faith means to you because a personal testimony is the is the end of all ends for every Mormon in in catechism classes they are taught this is how you give a personal testimony and it has these factions to it so for them to hear someone else give a personal testimony of your faith and your experience in the sacraments your experience in in the church and seeing and understanding it to be the authority of Christ being manifested through the generations from the Apostles themselves and that you've encountered Jesus Christ you've experienced the Holy Spirit but also to acknowledge the beauty of what we do share an understanding the importance of community families families and the moral life and just being honest and go there and meet there and many Mormons believe it's actually officially their doctrine they don't they believe the Holy Spirit is not present to anybody outside the Mormon Church because we're all in the state apostasy and so when people share in the Spirit of the Holy Spirit that's impactful all right whoa you're a Catholic you have a personal testimony of Jesus Christ in your life this is amazing yeah so I think that would be a great approach and just to be authentic in that relationship yeah absolutely encourages Catholics to as Peter says in first Peter ever be able to give a reason for the hope is that I have explained the difference that God has made in their life we have another email that kind of dresses that very question Jacob from Arizona seems like the average Joe and the Pew doesn't have much desire or ability to share his faith with others how can we get the ordinary Catholic to be on fire for the Catholic faith well that's that's my business that's connected to what I'm doing is what I do in the church and it is a delight to to engage that every day I come to work it's actually not work but can I come to the church I think particularly as converts we have the ability to bring a certain zeal and excitement that gives attractive and to draw Catholics in to help them understand the beauty and the splendor of the faith as I the one analogy I use with parents all the times I say you know you're sitting on a treasure box and in that treasure box is everything that man's heart desires in this world it has all the answers to the meaning of life let's open that treasure box you need to know that what you have and what you hold the world desperately needs though I'm a product of that you know and I think back all the opportunities where I would have come into the faith potentially even sooner had more people come to me and said Perry check this out this is really some pretty fantastic stuff it gets back to the same three questions in the Catholic faith we do have the answer so where we come from why we're here and where we're going and God has a plan and that plan has been there from the beginning and we're participating that plan and it's being implemented fulfilled in the church through the sacrament of life and that we're not just coming to attend but we're actually partaking and participating in God's plan and we are intimately part of it God planned them as we go out and become that light to become Christ to the world so helping Catholics to see and understand the splendor of all that and to bring what they have so they absolutely absolutely another email this is Tammy from the Midwest I entered the Catholic Church about two years ago and I'm disheartened she writes my parish priest can't preach well the choir is disappointing and I can't seem to make any friends at my church I'm tempted to simply go back to my evangelical church where I'm at least I at least feel welcomed and spiritually uplifted what should I do Wow well I I could encounter that at all and your work yes I there is that sense sometimes people don't feel welcome they feel a bit alienated at the parish and coming from my side we're always wanting to strive that people do feel welcome and I would encourage this person to to you know Express these concerns with the priest or with the deacon or with a parish staff there and just to dialogue with them and reach out and say here's how I'm feeling and also in that what can she do it's a she right yeah we know the - you know maybe help in this arena because as Catholics we have we're all accountable in in creating that welcoming environment so if we're feeling alienated you know I was just encouraged to reach out and to share this with people and to say how can we help to change this I remember Jeff Cavins wrote a book I think was called I'm not being fed or something like that I forget the title of it but he was addressing this question and and I'm not aiming this at the emailer but but part of our spiritual journey is learning that the mass isn't about me yes you know if the sermons not touching me the food isn't good afterwards you know the coffee and donuts and the fellowship isn't there and go I'm gonna go somewhere over and and part of what I would encourage them to do is to take a step back and say wait a second what's going on here what is this mass like you were saying you meet Jesus in the Eucharist whether you got fellowship or not the fellowship should spring from the Eucharist as the center of it all and so you know I think one member one time Mother Angelica was asked a question like that some was complaining about the mass and Mother Angelica I can't quote her perfectly but it was something like you know she would close her eyes and pray yeah because she's not gonna let the distractions take you away from what is really your present and that's our Lord Jesus Christ in the Eucharist so yes absolutely the importance of that I'm wondering you you have such an intergenerational responsibility from age 12 212 you said as you look at the different groups my guess is that each group has barriers to reach them differently teenagers young adults young marrieds you know all the way up middle-aged any thought of today which is the hardest age group from your experience to to get excited about their faith to recapture it I mean or is it just everyone has their own different struggles I think they all have their struggles I think teens are generally actually contrary poverty it's easier to reach because they are searching for something and for them identity is important and feeling like they belong to something that's exciting which the faith is and that it's actually meaningful and impactful in their life so and then the generation I'm from which I think can be difficult because many are so assimilated into the culture and they've been separated from the true sense of the faith and the idea of being Catholic is a cultural thing but it isn't it isn't personal and it is a meaningful in the day to day life there's challenges there and breaking through to help people see and understand that the cultural influences of which I come from and I had no problem telling people you know I fully embrace the secular world I'm tell you're gonna come up empty and I know you're already empty because God needs to permeate all of your life not just when you're here at church but then the seniors which I have the honor of teaching a class a Bible study to the average age of 70 the thing that I think grieves in the most is their children my age that have fallen away from the faith and and helping them to understand that they're still parents and as parents they have power and influence over their children and yes pray for them but also engage them and share with them you know the feelings that you're having and invite them constantly to come back and and to engage the faith in a meaningful way because it's Grievous it's Grievous on the heart for them so I've encountered a number of men especially my dad's age and others who had been through war and the the memories that hurts the the atrocity of war weighed on them so strongly that it seemed to raise a huge barrier both to intimacy as well as the faith mm-hmm and I know you're involved with men's ministry right and you talk a bit about the importance of that and so we how you reach those men that just have huge walls around their heart thank you for that question I the men's ministry is vital and much of what is going on in the church today as far as a renewal necessary in the parish comes from the men and for generation or two the men have been generally absent there's this statement they're saying I read somewhere a long way that so many of us are raised at the skirts of our mothers which is a good thing because it's nurturing but the men have been absent in that leadership role and we have a men's group at Fatima that I'm just so honored to be a part of I go just to be around these guys where we come every Saturday morning we meet and we're currently always looking at programs that can engage men in a real way authentically engage a man exactly as they need to be not and as for men that that means challenging that means intensity and being authentic in that and weaker they are using a program from Houston actually from Paradiso stay called that man as you fantastic program I have seen and coming together Saturday mornings having a breakfast having a video than small groups and what's being presented is the faith and the challenge and the and and identifying for men this is your responsibility and you're not owning up to it and you haven't owned up to it for the last two or three generations and until you do own up to it the church is gonna continue to struggle in its apathetic approach to our children and all the things that our children are facing in this world you got to be a man and step up and and understand what it means to be a strong leader in the house with the faith because this is what your children need the most to equip them for life and in the secular world that we live in and men are responding to that because it's aggressive it's it's it's as men think it's like okay there's a problem here's how it's going to get solved and I'm the answer and there and I'm seeing lives changed in radical ways it's a great ministry well we've only got a minute or so left let's say there's a just happens to be a Mormon watching this program what would you like to say to them why should they consider the Catholic Church well I think and I've had dialogues with many Mormons missionaries as well as laity and what I would say is what's at stake is the truth and the truth is very important I know it's important for all people in the Mormon faith this is why the Mormon Church exists and to open our minds and our hearts to the possibility that there's a truth that exists that's fuller and that the great apostasy which has been proposed as being the reason for the need for the restoration of the gospel in fact didn't happen as it's understood and that this Authority this truth continues to exist and has from from Jesus Christ who the Apostles and handed down and to be open and to the possibility that being the truth and coming coming to see coming to see perhaps there's more to the story than I understand alright very thanks if the folk want to get in touch with you or your work is there a website or anything that you'd like to add to church or something oh sure I'm open to emails and actually and my email address is B Knutson teen which is BM etz enti any at Fatima liquid com alright so maybe we get some questions about some of the things you've talked about I'd be delighted thank Salaam thank you appreciate your witness and and your sacrifice and what you're doing for all those different age groups you've taken a lot on your shoulders but you're helping the priests right I mean that's as a lady letter so you're you're doing what I can't do what you can in the work of the church thank you very much thank you for joining us on this episode of the journey home I hope is a strong encouragement to you to recognize how much God has given you god bless you [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music]

Channel: EWTN

Views: 54,744

Rating: 4.6566868 out of 5

Keywords: Journey, Home, Former, Mormon, Marcus, Grodi, with, Barry, Metzentine, 11, 29, 2010, Catholic, JHT01288

Id: Ihf7FOu-JHM

Length: 56min 13sec (3373 seconds)

Published: Tue Nov 30 2010