Journey Home - 2018-08-27 - Bill Gent

[Music] good evening and welcome to the journey home my Marcus Grodi your host for this program journey homes been on now almost over 20 years and we've had this long stream of having this great opportunity to sit and listen to stories of how the holy spirit has opened the hearts and minds of men and women to the beauty of our Lord Jesus Christ in His Church our guest tonight is bill gent I make sure I get that right only because I keep thinking of the Belgian city guests sure you can see the same yeah there it is again right exactly a former evangelical free and Baptist and made me think that Evangelical Free we haven't had Evangelical Free guests in a while but it reminds us that there are so many traditions out there with different backgrounds and different nuances maybe we'll get into that a little bit sure tonight bill welcome welcome welcome thank you Marcus glad to be here fellow former clergyman yes that's right that's right ordained in the wrong groups though I think well but a lot of affinity for that because they haven't been in that myself and but let me get out of the way I'm anxious to hear your story start at the beginning well the Lord writes straight with crooked lines I guess we could say as well someone has once quoted but yeah I was raised in Rochester New York and born to a Catholic mother who was very faithful god rest her soul and my dad who was baptized but he was actually baptized in a Presbyterian Church but he always joked that he was a pedestrian so he really didn't practice any faith as I grew up but my mother was very faithful and she made sure that my sister and I attended church on a regular basis matter of fact I lived about a block from the local parish and I have these wonderful memories of sitting on my front porch watching streams of people walking to the parish church for Mass on Sunday morning and I have some of the of course those memories went dormant for a few years it's amazing how the Lord works but I had this I had this great fascination with the church and I always sense that you know God was dealing with me even as I I remember I was chosen to be an altar boy and of course this is in what late fifties early sixties so we had to learn our Latin and I remember it it came you know very easily to me and in those days you know you had you know various degrees of the altar boy so I was the first master if anybody can relate to that I always was right next to the priest so I'd carry the holy water at the funerals and I was sort of like in some ways kind of directing the other altar boys and I thought that was pretty cool you know to be that close to the priest and I took it very seriously Marcus you know sometimes we would have rehearsals and the priest would leave to go over to the rectory or something and the kids start cutting up you know I'm the altar and running around and grabbing the microphone I thought oh this is this is not good we should not have I took it very seriously well the way old days these different degrees were on a trajectory to priesthood yeah it was that what was talked about at that time when I was in elementary school of course a you know I had really an idyllic upbringing you know even though my dad was now he was a very good father God rest his soul he just passed away here recently but he became a Catholic actually at 77 years of age isn't that amazing but you know I had this wonderful upbringing in the 50s course the early 60s became you know obviously those were difficult times but I always remember that the parish church was a place you could go and there was a sense of peace there was some very inspiring priests in those days of course the nuns would always you know kind of pull you to the side and say you know are you thinking at all I mean in those days they used to talk to you at a very early age about a possible location so in 1965 I'm graduating from LMS turi school eighth grade and I'm looking into a minor seminary and I really gave it some thought because when I was a younger kid we used to take rides remember when people used to ride in their car just for enjoyment well we would drive down and those who are listening that are familiar with Rochester New York Lake Avenue and it would run down along the river and then you would cross over to st. Paul Boulevard and there was this there was a beautiful old seminary there our st. Bernard seminary just an idyllic look like a monastery and I have these memories Marcus of all of these seminarians and their Kasich's out on the front lawn with their books you know they didn't have computers obviously back then they're out there with their books laying on the grass reading their theological and I thought oh that's so cool maybe that's something I want to do so I really had a thought about becoming a priest but some people kind of talked to me and I remember people saying oh do you want to sit in a hot confessional box in July and listen to people say so I really got talked out of it I found out many years later it was probably a blessing from God that I did not enter that minor seminary because of some things that had taken place there well on top of that that's 1965 yeah I mean that is in the middle that was that was right in the middle of a time when there was a lot of stuff changing absolutely and I've been I would imagine that would have been I remember it coming to church on a Sunday morning of course then I was a teenager so it was kind of cool to show up at the last minute and not sit down you stand at the back you know and to be with the cool guys but I can remember coming to church and all of a sudden where the altar rail go why is the altar moved away from the back why is the priests face I mean these were all changes that happen overnight you know and it was a shock to the people back then and and some of the you know more traditional Catholics really struggled with that but it was it was I went to an all-boys Catholic High School which was a tremendous experience was taught by bazillion fathers they were excellent teams a lot of them you mean yeah there were brothers and priests in a bazillion of them right a bazillion yeah quite a few even back then which is amazing and there were some lay teachers there but they were very inspiring I had a just an excellent education and you know what I remember Marcus's even as a child in elementary school I learned the basics of the faith and when I came back to the Catholic Church as we'll talk about I discovered that people just didn't know the basics and something was lost in their formation along the way so anyway I went to Catholic High School and of course went on to college and you know kind of pursued engineering I mean I didn't know what else to do because I thought well priesthood I guess it isn't for me and I went to in a couple of years engineering school and I thought you know this just isn't for me and you know then I I had unfortunately a failed marriage I had the gift of a wonderful son my oldest son and you know became very focused as a single dad and began to think about God his father in ways that I never really had that experience before and I think that I learned more about God his father by being a father than by reading about it and I just sensed some so you know over time I just kind of went away it just wasn't going to church always found maybe some kind of an excuse I still had this love for the Lord I just didn't have a real attraction to the church anymore so I'm sitting in a barber chair one day and my barber is starts talking to me about how he's an ex-catholic but he is now a born-again Christian and I thought I had heard something about this and I thought this guy you know he's some kind of a crazy person I how am I gonna get course I was a captive audience I'm not going to leave with half right you don't want to get him angry don't you wouldn't know I I stayed very still but you know and then he started he shared this little gospel tract with me and I'm sure your your viewers and your listeners are familiar with those and so I'm looking at this and it's talking about Scripture but I had a flashback to my high school days because I took a course in my freshman year of high school at a Catholic High School on the Bible and I was fascinated with the study of the but I know I had heard the Bible at mass but to have a whole Bible and actually begin to study it I was just overwhelmed with you know the just fascinated well then I had a priest who was an instructor who was just very inspiring and challenging and so I had this flash back to this Bible class but anyway he invited me to come to his Baptist Church and of course I was sort of a low point in my life you know and you know what's life all about all I see is responsibilities and I got bills to pay and I was working in the trucking business which I really enjoyed by the way I have a great heart for working people and so I decided one Sunday morning you know what I'm gonna I'm gonna check this church out so I Drive up to this place don't you know it's right across the street from this huge Catholic Church and so all I'm looking I'm you know deciding which way to turn it I'll give it a shot I'll go in and see what this Baptist Church I'd never been in a Protestant Church I go I park in a park I go in this church and oh my these people they came up to me it was as if I had this big yellow mark or something on my forehead that said visitor you know and they greeted me they showed me to move to a seat you know the the service I'm looking around I go you know there's there's no altar all I see is a podium and then all of a sudden I see all these people come out for the choir people started singing and people in the congregation actually sang I go well this is unusual these people really seem to have something going on here as I sat there of course I felt like everybody was looking at me because I was the stranger but the preacher he started preaching from the Bible I thought this guy's been following me around he knows my life and I came under such conviction that at the end of the sermon he invited people to come forward what we would call an altar call of course again there's no altar so if anybody has seen like a Billy Graham crusade or something you know you know how you process out of your chair and there's some music playing and it's very well choreographed and you go forward and there's someone there with a Bible and they show you you know Romans Road I sure your viewers and your listeners are well aware of all that and I'm looking at the scripture boy they convinced me I need Jesus as my savior you know I had all of these you know memories of my Catholic upbringing but I go these folks really know what this is all about so I said a prayer but I can tell you this I did have a conversion experience and you know that's something you know Marcus when I came back to the Catholic Church I thought this is what people need to understand this concept of ongoing conversion I mean that conversion I had they basically told me well that's it you're saved now and you know you've already had your conversion and now you just kind of move on with your life and of course they were dispensationalists which some of our viewers and listeners may be familiar with and I eventually went to a dispensationalist school but they basically told us once you're saved you're always saved now we don't encourage you to go out and commit murder or adultery but you know if you're saved you're saved and so you have a secure position in heaven based upon your prayer and your decision to accept Jesus as your Savior our guest is bill gent that's based on the idea that you didn't do anything to get this elevation you can't do anything to loose it I mean that's that idea of a totally great go this is great yeah I mean this is kinda like the American dream you've accepted Jesus as your Lord and Savior and I understand that fully from my own background to was a completely foreign to what you had experienced as a Catholic it really was and you know what Marcus what's really interesting is you know God is so patient with us and I just marvel at his patience but you know years later I saw the value of what happened there but how they take a very wooden kind of literal approach to the scripture and you know it's it's it's very easy for someone to kind of embrace that conversion and then think well my you know my eternal salvation has has been secured you know this one time static event is all that's needed but then I began to see some of the issues that arose from that and I you know eventually I met the woman of my dreams my beautiful wife Susan and she was in the choir and so I'm sitting at a service one day and I'm watching her and I'm thinking she is one beautiful girl I would really like to find a way to meet her and it just so happened that I was at the time bringing my two year old to this church and I would put him in the two-year-old nursery because you couldn't have children in the service you know it might interrupt the pastor and you know his you know his sermon so one evening of course we went to church three three times you know Wednesday night Sunday morning Sunday night you know the drill and I go up to the two-year-old nursery I go to pick up my son and she happened to be there and I remember her saying are you sure he's two years old because he was rather big for his size and he was really good he was a wonderful kid he's actually a federal law enforcement officer now but so you know and I said well of course he's too I thought well who is she well I've come to find out she also had a conversion experience and was also a Catholic so and the amazing and we joke about it to this day I actually fasted before I asked her out on a date and the Lord had something in mind there he put me with this wonderful woman who also although her return to Catholic Church took a little longer and I'll explain that a little while but put us together and we started serving in Sunday school so she convinced me oh you got up you got to work with children so here I'm sitting with fifth and sixth graders in a Sunday School class and before you know it I'm starting to enjoy it to some degree before you know it I'm asked to lead the class so we got 40 or 50 fifth and sixth graders before you know it now they want me to be you know a volunteer Sunday School Superintendent and we had almost I think a thousand children there you know we would bust them in from the inner city and so my whole Sunday Marcus was chasing children all over the campus but you know God was working in my heart and then someone suggested you know maybe you ought to think about maybe you know pursuing a Bible education and maybe you want to think about full-time service and I thought about it and I had no intention in the meantime we had gotten married and you know we started having our children and all of a sudden you know I'm in my mid-30s and I decided to go back to school and that was a challenge for us I'm working a full-time job I drove tractor-trailer 500 miles a day I went to school at night I'm up at midnight doing my homework getting up at 3:30 4 o'clock in the morning I have no idea those four years I have no idea where they went and my wife was so supportive but we were working towards something before I graduated I had already candidated at a Baptist Church and for our viewers and our listeners to candidate you basically auditioned you know what that's all about Marcus so I go to this church and of course they're asking me they grill me about what my beliefs are and of course I had gone to a dispensational school which meant that ahead answer the questions according to dispensational theology which I was already having some doubts about because I was a student of Scripture was it a rapture group oh yeah very much so and of course these folks all thought Jesus was coming in the late 80s so they thought well we call this guy to be our pastor only be a couple of years we'll all be in heaven and of course I answered that call even before I graduated from school and we commuted for months with four children in a two-door car no air conditioning back and forth 75 miles one way to conduct services all day Sunday come back I still was working driving and then eventually of course we sold our home and moved this was in Auburn New York but it was it was a very challenging pastor it and what I discovered is that that church was a split from another Baptist Church which was only about a half a mile up the road and that church was a split from another Baptist Church about two miles to the south so I learned this over time and the division now at that time I was gonna say at that time did you were you seeing at that time there was a problem with those divisions or was that more in hindsight look back as a boy like it was hindsight at the time I thought you know we're all supposedly believers in Jesus Christ and I knew there I knew there were denominations I got that but even within the Baptist and of course I had you know in school we took a course on Baptist history and I always wondered why did this start in the 1600s what happened before that and then of course there were these answers well there's some of our viewers our listeners may have heard of the trail of blood or something at some you know what is it suppose it history yes suppose it history and then there were some Baptists that traced themselves back to John the Baptist and so some of these things were beginning to swirl in my head but you know what Marcus recalling that God was really speaking to me even as a child that I had the sensitivity to the things the spiritual things I said well this is what God wants me to do and so I went to this church but you had totally left Catholicism totally left Catholicism of course when I was rebaptised you know I was basically saying that I'm breaking with I was really an apostate I guess you could say or schismatic at the very least at that point and I had braced you know the the you know dispensational theology and of course you know the interesting thing when I had that conversion experience I went back to some Catholics but unfortunately they couldn't answer my questions and that's so unfortunate you know you know that that took place and God blessed them you know they loved God but they didn't understand this evangelical movement was really gaining steam you know especially the non-denominational type churches and of course there had always been these churches but most Catholics had very little knowledge of them it's sort of lived with their own parish communities so you know my experience at this Baptist Church was very challenging many of them had serious marital issues I remember doing a whole series on the family on Sunday night just to try to help them kind of balance out their lives because they were basically more or less with so caught up in this rapture thing they were basically saying my life is a mess but I'll let the Antichrist handle my mortgage I'll let the Antichrist handle all of my dad or all of the dysfunction in my life because I'm going to get out of here and that was sort of the mindset it was very important and began to see that for what it was a young young adults not sure do I go to college or yeah what's the use of it you know do I get married or not what's the use of it because we're gonna get raptured anyway in the next year it was almost as if what I began to notice is there was no joy in Mudville it was sort of the and I remember shortly after I was there after the service of course now we've got all little children so I'm going to the nurse I'm the pastor so I greet everybody leaving but then there's always you know little groups of people and so I would go to the nursery and pick up my one of my joke cause my wife's running all over picking up all the so I'm picking up the older ones or whatever one of the Deacons comes said what are you doing I'll go along I'm going to pick up my chase oh no we men don't do that here that's for the women to do and I thought wow I've got a lot of work to do here and so you know there were wonderful people there they just didn't know Marcus they were in this very small they had a very small box which also really touches any idea that it really wasn't just Sola scriptura they had a strong tradition absolutely of that little congregation or movement and that really guided how they interpreted this and that's hide it in their lives and the whole idea of the Bible I mean they're even within my own community there were differences on doctrine and things you know things that weren't completely spelled out in Scripture and it was kind of interesting that they were they and usually the arguments surrounded the end times they were so focused on the end times and I was trying to get them more balanced with how do you live the Christian life and I was still you know all into yeah once saved always saved I would have these altar calls of course again no altar and we were trying to promote Christianity within our own community I would go door-to-door knock on doors you know dogs chasing you know you got people slamming the door all of these experiences but they were great experiences and God uses all of these things and so after about four or five years my wife and I said you know what we've done what we can do and so I decided to resign move my family back to Rochester New York by the way Auburn New York there was a major maximum-security prison there and that really had an influence on the community and so in but there were also some wonderful people that we met there and some really good Christian people too and so that was just part of the journey so when I returned to Rochester New York you know we started and and I started to do a pulpit supply so one Sunday morning Marcus this was an amazing experience that God use there was a church called a United ministry and in the same building there were Episcopalians meeting Presbyterians meeting and then the largest group are the United Methodists so they found out that I was available to do pulpit supply so one Sunday morning I conducted our presided over the Lord's table as we called it not the Eucharist obviously for Episcopalians Presbyterians and Methodists all in the same morning so the rebellion said real wine everybody else had to have grape juice and I'm in the middle of this and of course I had a have a prepared sermon and conduct that and you know I got out of there I thought this is crazy in this little town you have a united ministry and all of this division the Lord was just beginning to work on me in a number of ways we paused there that bill that's like a good place to pause we back just a moment with bill gen story former evangelical free we'll probably that's gonna fit in here a little bit sure [Music] [Music] [Music] welcome back to the journey home I'm Marcus Grodi your host bill gent is our guest I interrupted you you would just just to clarify in the United ministries it was called a united ministry so it was one building one three separate congregation you did three worship services 101 in one morning piss Kop alien Presbyterian and Method it was amazing that his companions led an acts Baptist conduct a service but I guess they were desperate for that Sunday and but that was quite an experience then they did a lot of pulpit supply and I really enjoyed that yeah but I was moving theologically toward every more reformed view of the gospel and so our cease parole I was reading John Calvin I was moving in the direction that you were in right and so I began filling in at a Presbyterian Church eventually became an elder in a Presbyterian Church but at the time they were going through all kinds of division within that congregation it was a Presbyterian Church USA and they were trying to get rid of the pastor and it was just a very difficult scene but all along the way there were always beautiful Christian people along the way that were an inspiration to me but I began to see the bigger picture Marcus and so we started having a course in the little village that I lived in we said there was no church no there was a Catholic Church about a mile and a half away but there wasn't any real church so we started having Bible studies in my home and people were coming from every denomination you could ever think of and we would welcome them in our home every Sunday night we would have Bible study and of course they would bring their children and after a while it just became such a circus that I said to everyone look if you folks are interested in playing any Church of some kind a couple of the couples were associated with the Evangelical Free Church we got in touch with them they kind of vetted me as a church planner and we decided that we would start an Evangelical Free Church in the area and that was a very exciting experience but I have to tell you that I flipped on television one day and I happened to come across the Christian Broadcasting Network or something and there was an evangelist on there and I looked at this guy and every hair was perfectly in place he had like a really common Oh better than yours he had a two thousand dollar suit on he had this background there's fountains and this beautiful floral arrangement and he was waxing eloquent I mean he was you could tell he was very polished probably had a teleprompter or whatever the case may be and then I thought I'm not listening to this this sounds a little a little phony to me and I turned the channel and all of a sudden I look at Pope John Paul the second sitting slumped over in his chair this was probably in the mid 90s and he's reading his homily and the Spirit of God said to me which one reminds you more of Jesus and I thought to myself I think it's that man slumped over that man they call John Paul the second and that just planted a seed some time later we had charts started this Evangelical Free Church and it was very exciting Marcus to start a church it's a lot of work you actually become you know a marketing expert is really what it is and of course we had to call our church a very generic name because if you put any kind of label on it people are not coming this is what has given rise to the nondenominational because if you say Baptist or even Evangelical Free People I'll drive by say well I'm not that but if you make it something very generic people are like a Community Church oh people well I can go there because I have some history with the Methodists and Presbyterians the Catholics whatever and they would come so it was very exciting and we had a wonderful experience there but one day I caught EWTN was at and there were two gentlemen sitting by a coffee table one was Scott Hahn and the other was Jeff Cavins and they're talking about had you been what you WT I had I had really rarely coming and I thought oh those Catholics you know they don't know what they're talking about and so you know Scott Hahn starts talking about you know it's not by faith alone and I'm listening and I'm kind of doing something else while this is that I go what are these guys talking about and he says no no it's not by faith alone and I thought yeah well read Romeo I'm yelling at the television set getting really upset and then he goes well James chapter two and uh oh yeah I remember James chapter two I was very familiar with that passage but as a dispensationalist the book of James doesn't apply to us as Christians in the 20th century and now the 21st century so I just dismissed it and then he started explaining it further and that planted another seed in the meantime one of my best friends that I'd gone to school with later who happened to go into Westminster Theological Seminary we had breakfast one day and he started telling me about the church fathers and of course I go what do you mean that church fathers they're all K you know those cattle you know where did they know you know the church went awry in the fourth century and we rescued it you know that kind of thing you start saying no I've been reading this stuff and of course eventually and I love to have him to be a guest on this program he actually converted to Catholicism and when he told me I was shocked but he eventually became a Catholic priest and you know he's just a wonderful man of God he's actually a professor at a Wesleyan College to this day but anyway he and I started meeting and I started thinking about you know I'm in this wonderful experience I'm finally starting to make a living as a you know how that goes and of course as a founding pastor it was almost as if I can't do anything wrong here this is dangerous you know for a power and control guy this could be a very dangerous situation when you have so much responsibility for people's spiritual lives so I started reading some Catholic books and of course it didn't tell my wife never said anything to her and I read Peter Kreeft I read Stephen Rea crossing the Tiber I read Carl Keating I read Oh a variety books surprised by truth all these testimonies of you know guests that you've had on this program and I'm getting angry reading some of these things and then there were a couple of scriptures and I loved the Bible I loved the Word of God I studied it for so long and I always had sort of little questions here and there but I always resorted back to my education you know but I thought to myself I need to be a little more open so I saw this passage I don't know who was relating this but they referred to first Timothy chapter 3 verse 15 and so I look it up I look at it I said the Bible is the pillar and foundation of the truth no that's not what it says it says the church is the pillar and foundation of the truth and I believed that the Bible was the final authority for all matters of faith and practice this has got to be a type up and then I started thinking about it first Timothy now Paul wrote that to his young disciple Timothy and that was back maybe in the 60s early sixties late 50s so what church is he talking about so little by little the Lord was leading me you know I kind of hard-headed Marcus in some ways it took me some time but the Spirit of God but I decided to stay very open in the meantime I was having all these experiences as a pastor you know we did not have the sacrament of reconciliation we replaced that with pastoral counseling you remember so I would have these men come and meet with me I always had a just a real heart for men certainly for families but for men to grow in Christ and I really wanted to focus on the importance of discipleship so these men would come into my office and as I was reading these Catholic books I was discovering you know this guy this guy wants to go to confession he's confessing his sins to me and I'm giving him some count sorrow but the Lord is just planning these seeds I I made really a contact with a crisis pregnancy director so I've been reading some of these Catholic books and I say it with a crisis pregnancy director I actually bought him launched and I said I said you know he was thinking maybe I should attend some of the meetings and maybe say a few words and so I said to him I said well you know something I'm very concerned about is you know we as Protestants you know we're okay with birth control and I said you know some of those birth control pills cause abortions dude were you aware of that and I had this whole conversation with him and he concluded and never heard from the guy again never invited me to be a speaker he owed me a lunch Marcus never heard from the guy again and that again got my attention you know on pro-life type issues you know all of these little things along the way one day I'm sitting in my church and we had actually bought a building a whole campus from the United Church of Christ and at the time where we were renting space there they had eight people going to church so we had an opportunity to buy that building buy that whole property which was a tremendous blessing I'm sitting in my church on a Friday thinking about you know my Sunday School lesson what I'm gonna preach on Sunday I'm looking at this communion table and it's a little bitty communion table and that just didn't of the front of it it says do this in remembrance of me I'm sitting there and the Spirit of God said to me that's the one thing you're not doing and I thought to myself and then I had read some about John chapter six and of course the floodgates open my wife at the time did not know she knew I was reading some other books and she didn't know they were coming she may have known but she thought you know I'm just kind of broadening you know my perspective whatever the case may be so we go out for dinner on our anniversary and we sit down at dinner and my wife looks over at me and she says where are we going to be in five years and I sat there and I thought I can't lie to my to my wife I said I envisioned him myself being in the Catholic Church within five years of course that was rather a difficult anniversary dinner as you can imagine and the timing couldn't have been worse but from that point on you know it was very difficult for her trying to figure it out I started bringing in to some of my sermons some Catholic principles just to see how the congregation and one of these guys that was a real strong Baptist guy pulls me aside one day he says pastor you're starting to sound like a Catholic that kind of laughed and little by little Lord was leading me at that point I had an associate pastor and it came to the place Marcus where I couldn't even preside over the Lord's Supper anymore because I no longer believed in the Lord's Supper I was so convinced by the theology of the Eucharist that we would gather on Friday mornings in a local diner a bunch of guys we would share Scripture and pray which was a wonderful experience but I would excuse myself early and I would drive 15 miles down to a Catholic Church just like you know the Scout Ahad story right and when I walked into this Catholic Church I just saw the beauty and you know I had remembered reading that st. Francis DeSales says we pray best before beauty and I saw the beauty of the statuary the altar and I instinctively and immediately recalled my childhood and the beauty of the faith I mean I truly believe that it is the beauty of our Catholic faith is going to be a huge factor and bringing people back but also in helping us to make missionary disciples and engage in the New Evangelization part of our goal as Catholics is to is to learn to appreciate what we too often take for granted Ness and I was thinking about your awakening to Jesus Christ as a young man outside the church we need that to happen to Catholics within the church or for Catholics to appreciate that they've always been on this journey they are already with Christ but we just need to understand it and help them appreciate the great gift they already have because they have the beauty so we need to make sure we preserve the beauty which also means our continual need for catechesis for the rest of our lives to grow in and you know at that point so I'm on the road to return but I've got five kids in the house you know I'm the main breadwinner my wife was I think working part-time at the at the time and I'm thinking so what am i she's not gonna know about this well she's really she didn't you know resist me but she was very tenuous about it because that was her whole support so that church was her life and she was a wonderful pastor so I couldn't have asked for a more wonderful woman to be a support because you know how difficult it is I I truly believe in this celibacy thing given the struggles of being a minister being a pastor but there was one roadblock Marcus and that was Mary so why this I gotta tell you this story so I'm really struggling with it one Saturday night I'm up in you know my room which was a little office and I'm you know I'm there and I'm really hungry for the Eucharist I knew at that time there were vigil masses and I just had this tremendous hunger to receive Eucharist so I I kneeled down beside my bed and I said Mary I don't even know if I should be talking to you I don't know if this is proper but I'm gonna ask you something I'm gonna ask you a very specific prayer request and if you grant this request and if it's very clear undeniable to me that you have answered this prayer request that I'm going to know that what the Catholic Church teaches about you is true I got up off my knees I walked away Marcus within I would say within six weeks I have never even up to this day ever had a prayer answered the way that prayer was answered so I was convinced that her holy intervention and of course obviously you know appealing to her son on my behalf I mean she granted that request by the grace of God and and I now I what am I gonna do I've got to give all of this up and you know you go to the wine ads there's nothing there for wanded ex pastor for this position or this career so it was very difficult and you got to remember Marcus my children I had been their pastor now for me to stand up and say you know everything I said before guys and some of that stuff I taught you well guess what it wasn't the fullness of the truth and so I had a real challenge on my hand as well as leading my wife now my wife is is a very intelligent person I could offer all the apologetics but that's not where she was it was an emotional thing for her so in 2000 I resigned this growing beautiful community and and actually we left Rochester New York her mother had contracted Alzheimer's we moved to Melbourne Florida and I started attending a pair of course the parish priests didn't have any idea what to do with me because Here I am an ex evangelical pastor what the one of the parochial vicars there said I have no idea what to do with you you need to meet with the pastor and the pastor was very the Lord had arranged this he was very forward-looking very interested in evangelization he was curious about how we were so successful in drawing people and evangelizing and discipling people so he gave me the opportunity eventually to work on the staff for him and over the years I've been there on and offer you know 18 years you know doing my penance Marcus with all the people I dragged out of the Catholic Church now I had a responsibility to try to draw them back the Catholic Church has recognized under john paul ii and pope benedict particularly the need to examine how to be better steward of the gifts of clergy who come from other denominations other churches sharing other traditions and the church has been very specific and through the pastor provision and now the anglican Ordinariate to to offer avenues for Anglican clergy Pisgah and clergy to come into the church and use their gifts as pastors but a part of that is what they call the patrimony they would say that the anglican Pisgah peléan tradition has a patrimony to bring with them a uniqueness that's what that is sure what would you say is the patrimony of evangelicalism that you bring with you as you come into the church I would say that we understand the necessity of the mission and too often when I returned to the Catholic faith I noticed that most parishes I would really explain as like little ghettos you know they're they're focused on maintenance rather than the mission I think there's a book that kind of you know explains that but I think to get back to the basics of the faith Marcus I teach scripture study on Sundays and Mondays at my parish we have probably a couple hundred people go to scriptures I mean for people to get more acquainted we not only the gospel and of course all that the gospel is as we understand it as Catholics become more familiar and not intimidated by the Bible so they can answer their evangelical friends so that we can see the value of using our gifts to go out beyond the parish walls we're sent at the end of mass to go into the mission field and the church is a mission and that's really the focus is to pursue making missionary disciples and that's what I've been committed to yeah we the United States I don't know the exact date but about a hundred years ago the United States ceased being considered a missionary church you know a Mission Church yes but in let's face it and today the the number of Americans that consider themselves Catholic is about 22% of the population yes and only about half of those are very active in their local parishes so that's about 10% of the population when you only have 10% of the population attending Mass that means we're still a lot of mission going on here we got a lot of work - yes we do and and sometimes I do believe that when Catholics for whatever reason leave the church and then have an awakening and then the Lord draws him back there's a purpose in that yes I'm going conversion is what I would certainly emphasized and and for anyone out there look at almost 50 years old I thought I had wasted my life and yet in reality God has showed me if I was willing to stay open to the spirit and answer the call to return to his church that God would take care of me and give me a wonderful opportunity to bring people closer to him you also have members in your story you said that when when that Baptist invited you to that scripture study yeah that was an awakening for us talk about the need to to open this wonderful book well so many Catholics have no I'm presently going through the book of Nehemiah and I'm afraid most Catholics don't even know the book of Nehemiah is in the Bible but it's right you know the book of hesitation yes it exists as a kiya to but you know but we always joke about it but you know what there is a growing hunger amongst Catholics for the word of God and I think that by growing these scripture studies which we have an opportunity to share this is a great opportunity to evangelize because I think we have to evangelize from the inside out and I see this as a role that I have to help inspire Catholics to live an intentional Catholic faith more informed about the basics but also armed with Scripture so they can go out beyond the four walls of their parish and evangelize I remember when I was a Presbyterian pastor and I turned on EWTN just like you did and one of the first things that I remember struck me is when I saw this nun yes where's this bearded gray monk over here sir Benedict Groeschel but I remember as a Presbyterian recognizing how committed they both were the scripture yeah studying scripture opening Scripture and drawing people to Jesus Christ and that's been a core part of EWTN from its beginning as to help Catholics appreciate this book which is which is ours which is our book by the way so let me ask you so what about the gifts of the experience in church planting how does that how is that a patrimony it's funny how I see things now coming from that experience and so I have a one-hour radio program on a Catholic radio station and no behind the space and Treasure Coast in Florida so I have an opportunity to talk about all of the giftedness that's out there in the Christian world and also you know obviously amongst Catholics to draw forth those gifts but church planning gave me a real a real bird's-eye view of how we need to leave the parish walls and live our Catholic faith as I said before in a very intentional way and do not be afraid to engage the culture because in many respects we've left the public square we have to go back to actually having the courage by the grace of God to go into the world and preach the gospel of Jesus Christ not only with our actions but also be willing to open our mouths from time to time and I think we have to equip people to be able to do that yeah you were talking about when you were planting this church and you were wondering what to call it because you recognize that the people out in our culture sadly have a little been alienated yes very much so from denominations from the Catholic Church and all that so that's part of our barriers not that we're going out there to reach with people that never heard of Jesus or because they've been alienated maiya coppa because of us unfortunately we got barriers to work through we don't advocate changing the name of saint williams down the street into something no that's not the meaning but we recognize that when we go out to evangelize need to understand those alien nations what is it that stands in the way of them being opened to come back to Jesus it's funny it's all of those lukewarm Catholics that really prevented my wife from actually returning to the church for some five years after I returned it was because of that and so I guess it's a challenge to the average Catholic live your faith in an intentional way show others that you love Jesus Christ not only by how you conduct yourself and Mass Jesus didn't call us to be spectators or church members he called us to be disciples email from Samantha from Kentucky my husband is a lifelong Protestant and is passionate about his faith he loves the Bible but asked me why Catholics can't read the scriptures and understand its meaning without appealing to the Pope and the ditions of man what should I say to him hmm that's a great question I think the question to ask him is what is his final authority because if you try to say that the bible is the final authority then in my view the Bible should say that somewhere but it doesn't I know where they're gonna go second Timothy 3:16 and 17 all Scripture is given by inspiration of God profitable for doctrine you know the passages but it doesn't say that the Bible is the only Authority and so I think it's history you know John Henry Newman says to be deep in history is deceased to be Protestant and when I read some of his stuff that essay on the done the development of Christian doctrine that just I think it's the authority issue is the key and that oral tradition preceded written tradition and there's some scripture that points that out 1st Thessalonians the 2nd Thessalonians there are places to go and so there are lots of resources out there I would encourage her to pick up some of that information and try to help your husband and lead them to the church you give a good example on you you would point it out in your journey 1st timothy 3:15 the pillar and bulwark of truth is the church that statement on the front of your the table do this in remembrance of me and then john 6 well those are great examples of when left to private interpretations you fill in the blank on which church sure you do or what does it mean in remembrance of me is just like a photograph that all it is or what does john 6 even even listen to it or do you ignore it that's why we needed the church preaching in my evangelical church on a passage and i'm claiming the inspiration of the holy spirit the guy down the street in another church a Methodist Church he's preaching on the same passage he says something completely different so I came to the conclusion Marcus either one of us is wrong or the Holy Spirit is lying right one or the other and of course I had to come the conclusion that I'm the one that's privately interpreting I need to find a final authority and that's found in the Catholic Church well welcome home bill thank you Marcus thank you for having me thank you been a pleasure journey on the journey home thank you very much and God bless you and your family your continued service for our Lord Jesus thank you so much thank you for joining us on this episode of the journey home I do pray that Bill's journey is an encouragement to you god bless you [Music] you

Channel: EWTN

Views: 12,049

Rating: 4.710145 out of 5

Keywords: jht01624, ytsync-en, jht

Id: NaLk4pR9I6c

Length: 56min 10sec (3370 seconds)

Published: Thu Aug 30 2018