Jordan Peterson Refuses to Debate Matt Dillahunty

is it true that that Jordan Peterson won't debate you anymore well it seems to be true um basically while we were s while we were finishing up on stage he said he'd be happy to have another conversation with me and then the second the debate was over he bolted off the stage went and locked himself in his dressing room um and what I was told uh is that his manager publicist whoever basically said you should never do another event with that guy and so I haven't heard anything from Jordan Peterson since that night you're incredibly polite and reasonable it's it's actually I think I didn't don't think that did any favors for him to be honest um no especially when he said um you can't quit smoking without a without a mystical experience I just just like people record report other experiences as if they were religious or ghosts or whatever we have no way of confirming that this something mystical or Supernatural actually can happened what this is this is about the language stops people from smoking well you can stop smoking without any sort of Supernatural intervention no not really you can't stop smoking without Supernatural there AR really any any reliable chemical means for inducing smoking sensation you can use a drug called Buu prion I think that's the one whatever well Butrin is um is that Supernatural no you don't need a supernatural effect but it doesn't work very well but if you give magic mushrooms psilocybin and they have a mystical experience they have about an 85% chance of smoking cessation with one treatment yeah but that's kind of like evidence you know it's kind of like evidence it's evidence that you can take mushrooms and increase your chance of quitting smoking but no it's not it's it's indication that if you take mushrooms and you have a mystical experience you'll you'll stop smoking because it doesn't work if you if you take mushrooms and you have an experience that you describe as mystical um then you'll increase your chance of smok but that doesn't tell me whether or not there was something uh to this notion that they had an experience that was Supernatural in any sense I think before I even went to bed that night I called Sam Harris uh or or me I probably didn't call him I probably emailed him either that night or the very next day to let him know basically what happened here's where you can watch it because I knew that Sam was going to be doing an event with Jordan within a month of what I did um and I think their event went really well but I I think probably the thing I'm proudest of and I had really good help from a friend um oam Manus Ramsay uh who many of you know a philosopher that I've had on podcast and stuff before he was there at that event and asked one of the best questions uh during the Q&A and it really led to some clarity he's exceptionally good at at at being able to ask the right question that directs a conversation towards the Lynch pin uh that you need to pull thank you both for a very interesting and revealing exchange uh my question is for you Dr Peterson um you alluded to an important distinction between someone who would actually be an atheist and someone who merely professes to be an atheist you implied that Matt and others are not genuinely atheists I'm curious why you think that is it just because we have sacred values that everyone has sacred values what in your view would a genuine atheist be like he'd be like raskolnikov in crime and punishment and I can't really come up with a better answer than that because it's such a complicated question that that's the right answer you know I love that book it's an amazing book and it's it's a great Thriller by the way if if if there are some of you perhaps many of you who haven't read it you you really should read it because it might be the greatest novel ever written I think you can make make a case for that it's unbelievably exciting once you get into it and rol nikov he plots the perfect murder it's so interesting because dovi the last thing dovi ever did was make a straw man out of his opponents let's say what doeski did in all of his great novels was make his enemies let's say or or make each of the positions that he was trying to contend with as powerful and admirable as he possibly could and since he was an absolutely spectac genius he could really do that and so raskolnikov plots a murder and he murders this horrible woman who's horrible according to everyone who knows her who also has enslaved her rather mentally feeble niece and who does nothing but make people miserable consciously all the time and he does that in order to save his sister from a rather sophisticated form of prostitution to save himself from starvation so that he can become a great lawyer and and help people right so dovi sets up the stage here's the perfect situation for a murder and all of the rational choices point in that direction and raskolnikov who's also sort of torturing himself or sort of tortured because he's sort of hungry and not very well not thinking very clearly he he undertakes the murder and he gets away with it and he's before he does it he berates himself in what I would describe as the negative atheistic style and he basically says look there is every rational reason to split This Woman's skull with an axe look at all the good I would do look at all the well-being I would enhance and so he does it and then all hell breaks loose and what dovi was was see raskolnikov built himself up to the murder in part by laying out the rational case but also also by saying well there's no God there's no metaphysical reason that's stopping me from committing this act and there's all these reasons that appear perfectly rational P pushing me in that direction perhaps I'm nothing but a moral coward for failing to undertake it so he does but what he finds out is that he broke an inviable moral rule something that spoke to his own soul so to speak and the rest of the book basically involves his sec quential post-traumatic unraveling and the post-traumatic issue is very interesting because one of the things you de do see happening with post-traumatic stress disorder is that it's very often it very often occurs in people who watch themselves do something of great malevolence by their own admission I'm I'm not projecting this onto them they've watched themselves do they've stepped outside the ancient moral code unwittingly and and conducted themselves in a manner they cannot reconcile themselves to and they are permanently broken so there are works like that crime and punishment for first and foremost I would say that do a lovely job of elucidating in narrative form how these self-evident moral presuppositions are necessarily nested inside this broader narrative metaphorical substrate and that you use your rationality divorced from that metaphoric substrate at your peril and I believe that to Bea the case I think that's an accurate psychological summation thank you um I'm curious if Matt has any thoughts on the matter you think I have plenty so it's it it's rather surprising and I promise you i' don't mean this to be insulting because I definitely place you uh considerably higher than most of the apologists that I've engaged with but there's a common theme from the apologists and that is you're not really an atheist because now in Dr Peterson's case it's you're not really an atheist because in my mind an atheist is someone who would be a murderer and so I'm just rather than saddle you with that you just think you're an atheist uh but really you're not from other apologists it's you think you're an atheist but you're not because God's written his moral code on his on your heart is is what this is essentially as far as I can tell what was expressed in some way that that there's a moral Foundation a moral Center that God has imbued people with and that we all know this or we all recognize it or you're not really an atheist or this is what an atheist would do um an atheist is somebody who doesn't believe there's a God I am not convinced there's a a God that doesn't necessarily mean I'm convinced there are no Gods um although that is a subset of hey I don't believe there's a God and then there's a subset that is I I believe there are no Gods this is as I've talked about previously independent of whether or not I can be a moral being or do good things independent from whether or not there's a and wonder or purpose and meaning in my life uh in much the same way that you know previously they wanted to kind of say oh this is this is a secular human you know regime that was just awful it wasn't secular humanism there were atheist fans who wrote me that were like oh man I can't wait till you do this conversation with with Jordan and I was like cool and still I hope that we have many more conversations as well because just saying one thing that I find irritating is never going to be enough to get rid of me but I asked them great I'm not that familiar with him what is it about him that you like and and what are the cons concerns and they they came back with a bunch of things um none of them said anything about agreeing with views on religion they seem very confused on those things and so the good news for them is that while he thinks atheists would be murderers he doesn't actually think you're an atheist and that is his way of getting around acknowledging things that conflict with his worldview I don't get to decide who is or isn't a true Christian I didn't even get to decide that when I was a Believer I definitely don't get to do it now so if somebody tells me they're a Christian I'm going to have to accept that I have a model in my head of what that means I have a model in my head of what it means to be a Muslim but I'm willing for them to explain to me what their model is I know I know people who identify as Christian atheists they really love the stuff that Jesus said but they don't actually believe there's God you know Thomas Jefferson famously cut out the Jefferson Bible and removed every reference to the Supernatural and Miracles and things like that because he really admired the teachings of it and sure you can I think you could be a cultural Christian in that uh if if you wanted to it's strange to me that I'm not sitting here with somebody like Ray Comfort when I'm told you're not really an atheist because you're too good to be an atheist and this is what atheists hear all the time when they come out they've been sidelined because of religious privilege around the world for years and then atheists come out to their family members or friends or people they've known for years and they're like you're an atheist how can that be you're such a good person I've known you all this time it's because the mindset of what people have about what an atheist is has been poisoned by religious proclamations we have been denigrated from the pulpit and it is seeped into every aspect of culture right up to the height of intellectual Pursuits and it's time for that to end and Jordan Peterson Peterson is um an exceptionally strange person we had dinner before the event and he was he was only eating meat because that's his daughter's kick yeah the lion died or whatever and literally when I say he was only eating meat it was the the or the food they ordered was I want a steak I want it cooked on a grill that has been freshly cleaned so there's nothing else I want it cooked um with salt and nothing else no vegetables no nothing just bring me out this slab of meat and um yeah it it was weird but you know what are you gonna do oh jez

Channel: Deep Drinks

Views: 334,697

Keywords: atheism, humanism, jordan peterson, matt dillahunty, matt dillahunty debate, matt dillahunty vs

Id: bw9xFLPz85I

Length: 12min 43sec (763 seconds)

Published: Tue Sep 12 2023