Jonna Mendez - Liberty University Convocation

today we have a real live spy she's going to tell you how much you're being watched how people how you being listened to even if your cell phone's not on and she's a former CIA chief of disguise she's on the Board of Advisors of the International Spy Museum in Washington DC in 1993 at retirement sharing the CIA's commendation medal today she continues to act as a consultant to the US intelligence community her TED talk and Wired magazine interviews are widely successful wired interview gathering 8 million hits alone so we're going to ask Jonna Mendez to come up now and we're going to have a discussion thank you it really is such an honor to have you with us mr. Mendez I'd love to just start our time by kind of asking the most obvious question how does how does a girl from Kansas just even get into this line of work I mean you have this prestigious title and you've done amazing things with your life but I don't think you grew up wanting to get into this line of work how did you get started in the first place well the first hurdle was getting out of Kansas I met I met Esther today who's from Wichita and we we were kindred spirits because there aren't many of us that get out I went I went to Europe to be in my best friend's wedding she got married they went off to Italy on a honeymoon and I was there so I decided to stay I stayed for nine years I decided decided to get a job so I made a port phone calls calling American names in the phone book got to the seas Chase Manhattan I said I'm looking for a job they said you speak German I said no they said have you worked in a bank before I said no they said do you have a work permit I said I don't they said come on down and talk to us thank you God and they hired me so I was I was I was able to stay and while I was there I bumped into these young people who were coming into the bank for this and for that and they said they were civilians with the US military which was enormous but they weren't they were lying they were CIA so they became my good friends and two years later I married one of them in Switzerland that's how it began right Johnna your career has just been fascinating but just tell us what it was like to be a CIA operative and during the cold war with Russia was there any collision I mean just tell us all about it actually the fact that Russia was our main target made it easier we had names for each other they called us in Russian the main enemy they have always called us the main enemy we are the main enemy today we called Moscow the belly of the beast because it was just the worst place in the world to work was the hardest place and it still is constant surveillance every everything you try and do someone is watching you whether you're in your apartment which is bugged whether you're in your car which probably has a beacon on it but it certainly has got a surveillance team behind it no matter what you're doing you're being stalked that was the worst case scenario and it was a it was a great training ground for a lot of our officers the tensions during the Cold War are hard to explain but it was hardball not softball the goal was to tout doux them without actually taking the field of battle that was kind of our definition of the Cold War and to the extent that that it played out we did win we attended an event at Texas A&M big intelligence gathering in Texas A&M and the question was who won the Cold War this is the entire intelligence community and the consensus was that we had won but a Russian general named Ola Kalugin pointed out to us that while we may have won they they killed almost everyone that was working for us so he he took he took issue with our saying we won after 9/11 there was a lot of talk about American citizens being monitored and their phone calls captured and and somebody I forget who it was an intelligence admitted that that happened is that going on or is there I know things changed after 9/11 but how far is it gone do you know you're probably talking about signals intelligence intercepts sickened and and the the intelligence community has a role in SIGINT actually NSA manages most of it our focus on collection is usually overseas we're looking for foreign intelligence gathering information for our policymakers to hopefully inform their decisions but a lot of the time or some of the time the conversations that you're listening to will have an American on one end and a foreigner on the other end there's a process to sort that out the Americans should be set aside there are courts that you run this through that American information is typically not used I think what you're referring to is maybe a couple of instances when there was a question was it was it properly set aside but the way the system basically works I'll tell you this I never worry about anything I say on my phone being picked up by an American intelligence service I worry about the Russians listening to my phone calls I had a Russian group hack into my computer a few years ago and John gauger your buddy Kirk figured it out and for about two years they could they could pull anything they wanted off my laptop never figured out who it was and yeah that's the that's the challenge for the future because it's been the Russians and now it's the Russians and the Chinese but pretty soon you know any country in the world with a cadre of students like in this room is going to be able to do that and and then where are we so you were married to a CIA agent and that's very very unusual right tell us about how you met and normally somebody's married to a CIA agent that's hard to say and they don't know what the spouse does they have to keep it secret so tell us about your life and you didn't have to keep it secret because you were married to another agent well you you did have to keep it secret sometimes being married to another CIA officer was a relief because you could relax you could go home you didn't have to pretend that you worked where you didn't you didn't have to go through that exercise which is fatiguing so your husband knew or your wife knew where you were generally what you were doing but it would get sticky over dinner and he'd say so what are you working on I'd say you know I can't tell you there was one particular situation though I was overseas the question was what are you doing I said you're not on the it's called the bigoted list you're not on the list I can't talk to you about it sorry dear and he said I think I know what you're doing and it's not what you think you're doing and so this is this is about the the the wilderness of mirrors the the smoky glassware what are you actually doing it was a long story but I was helping the team go into a restricted facility and pull a machine out of the floor called a smoking bolt operation stealing this machine and taking it out of the country this was months of work I thought we needed the Machine my husband said we don't need that machine we have an agent somewhere else in the world who's being investigated right now he is in trouble they're about to have arrest him if we steal that machine it will show the enemy that we wouldn't possibly want him because we got the machine so they're doing it to take pressure off of this guy on the other side of the world I mean you never really know all of the story you're actually - mrs. Mendez was married to a world famous of CIA operative a matter of fact made famous through not just the best-selling book but a movie where Ben Affleck played the role of your husband and in a movie that was a little bit about my home country you're on let's watch this preview and then we'll talk about this [Music] [Music] I saw that movie I love that movie amazing so how do you feel your husband you weren't married at the time but I'm sure you know a lot of background and secrets behind the movie those of us who knew what was going on and it was a very small group of people we were holding our breath while he was out there you know you never know you never know how these things will play out I will tell you that that Tony used to tell Ben Affleck as often as he could manage that Ben wasn't good-looking enough to play him I was always going he's wrong originally though Tony wasn't gonna play the role of your husband tell us that story the way the movie came about if you ever wondered how this happens especially to an undercover CIA officer who's never even really admitted that he worked at the CIA our phone rang in the middle of the night it was our book agent in New York and she said George Clooney wants to buy the rights to your book and Tony said great sell it to him any he went back to sleep and he said Clooney and Warner Brothers and then the phone rang again and same agent said now Brad Pitt and paramount are bidding against Clooney my husband said double the price went back to sleep and the next day Clooney had bought it he was going to write the script direct it and he was going to play Tony all the women in my life were so excited including me then somehow Ben Affleck wrestled it away from him and I think we were in the end we're glad he did because he made what really was an excellent movie you know if you think about it it could have been a terrible movie he made a really really good movie yeah David's from Iran is there anything we need to know about him just know I just want you to know there's no better cover than an Iranian operative who works with Jerry Falwell Jr in the most conservative circle in America at Liberty University hosting guests like the Israeli ambassador and Melania Trump I'm deeply embedded y'all and I also want you to know that I too have that dilemma does Brad Pitt or George Clooney or Ben Affleck claim me in my role we know who would play your role who's that awesome Oscar from the office that's true as long as as long as Michael gets to be Jerry we're good you know how are you Pam after the movie after the movie came out the Iranians got very angry about the movie it was so popular we got the memo yeah we weren't happy about it yeah well they said that they were gonna make their movie about the story to really tell the true story and my husband said I can't wait to see who plays me it was something that never happened does my Cub cousin Abdul but he turned it down enough money president Falwell has the next question what was the most dangerous experience you ever went through all those years most scared you were ever the one that comes to mind would be in the in the subcontinent I was visiting another CIA station a terrorist called in someone in that station had known him in a previous life the terrorists said I need to meet with you I know that they're gonna bring down a Pan Am plane and I want to I want to tell you the plan so our chief of station said I'll meet with him but I'm not going out there alone to meet with this guy this guy was a very bad guy his own terrorist organization was after him Interpol was after him the local intelligence community was after him he said I'm taking all of you so i disguised seven people and we went to a big deal western hotel in a city that I can't describe and I ended up in a rug shop having the men roll out rugs and I'm counting knots on the back everybody had their position and I looked up through a glass wall across a corridor through another glass wall into a newsstand and that guy was standing there I had never seen him but there was no question it was him small guy show our kameez with to Northwest frontiersman big soldier type guys with Kalashnikovs in this fancy-schmancy hotel openly carrying these guns and I did the thing you're not supposed to do we made eye contact and I thought I really thought that they just might shoot me this guy was running for his life and he knew me when he saw me he told our chief of station later he said you had five people in this hotel I made them all and I'm thinking to him two of them he didn't see anyway the local intelligence people arrested the men two days later and we never heard what happened to him but I thought I was going to be randomly impersonally because I didn't do anything I was just looking arrives I thought I was gonna die that minute I really did thank you God all through my career thank you God as a mother I'm concerned like we're not we have a lot of students that travel internationally do mission work and everything do you have any tips for when you're traveling how do you not get spotted by the locals as as an American which makes you kind of a target to be pickpocket pickpocketed and have some violence like Pastor Dave said when they see an American it's like you're you're saying rob me please because I'm not familiar with your ways what we would always suggest is stop in a local shop and buy some local t-shirts just like them carry their stuff don't don't show up in your brand-new white sneakers that you bought for the trip to Paris they were sneakers but I mean that was they just you can see an American coming like a mile away don't wear your favorite baseball hat just watch the way you you comport yourself there are so many small things that we do that they they see it the way we eat the way the way we stand we slouch we we have poor posture if there's anything to lean on like an elevator we lean on the wall or always holding ourselves up they think that's almost rude they stand up straight on two feet they don't do that standing on one leg with your hip jutting out just all kinds of ways that you can pay attention and not call yourself out as an American because if they see you as an American there are groups like in Paris at the bridges if you ever cross the Seine on each side of those bridges are groups of young men waiting for an American tourist and they've got like 90 ways to come at you everything from oh look is this your ring I just found a ring oh it's not yours would you help me find the owner and they're picking your pocket at the same time it's a thousand things they do so I told all of this to my 26 year old son who I took to Paris a year ago I said it's especially at the bridges be careful so he knew he was armed he had his his his stuff zippered inside of his jacket right up here they approached the bridge there's this group of men that came and surrounded them with clipboards clipboards and they said you know we have to we have we're taking a survey da da da da da and they were waving them away get out of here and all of this and when the young men went away his wallet was gone I mean even sometimes when you're prepared but but he obviously look American and they hit him they didn't hit anybody else there they just picked him I've heard not to carry designer luggage I'm sure David Nasser has his Louis Vuitton suitcases and he gets spotted out first thing but not to have designer suitcases because then they know that you have some money and so get your Samsonite like I get from TJ Maxx for $99.99 and then you're not spotted as easily yeah it's a matter of just tamp it down champ it down you don't have to wear your best jewelry I mean you don't even because you're to spend the whole trip worrying about it the good stuff leave it at home get comfortable don't wear sweats and sweatshirts don't go looking just sloppy and that the women in this audience if you've traveled abroad you will know that the women in Europe when they come out their front door they look good they've got on makeup their hair is you know and here come here we come looking like we just got out of bed sometimes it's easy to see perhaps your most famous moment certainly in the wired video where 8 million people watched it and got a ton of buzz was when you went not just to the White House but you were invited to go into literally the Oval Office with President Bush incognito no one even recognized you let's watch this video and I'd love to hear some of your thoughts on that particular moment one of the things that was going on when I was chief of disguise was an enormous research program into the new advanced disguise system it was basically the masks that everybody always wondered if we used masks and this was the beginning this is a series of photographs of when I met George HW Bush in the Oval Office and revealed to him that I was briefing him wearing a mask that's crazy so how are you allowed into the White House without background checks and how did that even come about and why why will you why did you decide to walk in completely you know incognito with that I guess I guess I did it because I could the president had no idea right that that mask was the end result of a long long R&D program that was one of the first it was actually the first one I was an african-american male and they said let's take this to the White House I said no no I can't I can't carry that off they said make another one so that was that was the second one it was I I didn't have any identification I didn't have any paperwork judge Webster who was head of the CIA at the time said just grab my coattails we'll go in they're not going to challenge you and they did they did not of course you couldn't couldn't do that today but my husband was hired as the counterfeit or forger and if there had been documents needed there would have been documents produced you know yeah so so going in and showing that mask off was one of the high points of my career it changed the way we were able to work when you could do a mask we could make we could make another one of you we could make a twin for you we could change your gender we could change your ethnicity we could change everything it was a great tool that makes more sense now because I remember James Comey saying that he just sent some people over to the White House because the new administration was new and then we're not organized yet and he thought they might get away with it I guess because they were agents they did but but did you ever see an instance where where your superiors ordered agents to go spy on a political opponent without any kind of warrant or not saying that happened but way I am but I want you quiet for this the answer is no the answer is no when we were working we were collecting intelligence on foreign questions foreign problems we were looking for the plans and intentions of our enemy we were we were not involved in politics I told Pastor Dave this yesterday it never came up I worked with a group of a thousand people over 27 years politics never came up it didn't matter who was president it didn't affect what we did it didn't affect the way that we did it once I retired actually it took me years to even do QA talking about politics I'm uncomfortable talking about politics because we never did now I know things change but I also know the heart of the CIA and the CIA is not there to do political warfare they're there to do the work that needs to be done that happened it was a small minority of bad actors if that happened III just almost can't imagine that that would happen and that people wouldn't get fired if it did okay the state stay tuned okay what we've all grown up watching spy movies and we got David's got a few clips and we want you to tell us which movies got it right and which ones got it wrong so who gets us right what was right and what was wrong about these movies I know we all enjoy watching spy movies you know my office was really the equivalent of Q and the James Bond movies we were the technical gadget people one of the big differences between us and the movies is we never handed the equipment directly the James because he was gonna go break it he was gonna lose it he had no respect for it so we would travel with with the equipment I don't know I like for reality I like the Americans the Americans if you watched it that's pretty much represents as closely as I've seen on screen what it's like if you just want to be entertained Tom Cruise and and Tom Cruise and that Damon are hard too hard to beat but nothing in those movies it's all CGI it's fabulous but it's it's not real like the the mask that that he takes off there that is I'm not quite sure how they film it but it takes them about five hours to put that thing on and it takes when it comes off it takes them another 30 minutes to clean up which you might appreciate at this point coming out of a disguise is is harder than going into a disguise those are all fun fun moments but the Americans was was the most realistic do you want to I mean it I was walking through the International Spy Museum and somebody asked me who had watched the Americans was there anybody in the room I said I've seen it they said great the Washington Post wants someone to do a review because the last episode is coming up so would you do the review and I'm like okay because they didn't know that I'd only seen one episode and I didn't know that it had been on for six years so nobody saw me for like two and a half weeks I'm binge watching the Americans our students have never done that they've never got on Netflix and watched a lot of things at once they've never what's that like tell them they've never experienced that well if you were watching the Americans I just got more and more depressed it was really kind of a you know at the end it was just it was a bummer so no one everything you do know what what gives you hope in life oh that's a tough question that's why I stopped being a lawyer because all you saw was the negative side people in trouble people having legal problems financial problems it's much more I'm a recovering attorney and I'm proud of it it's such a great question because honestly you you wake up every day and you don't just we we hear about the terrorist activity that happened we hear about Sri Lanka and we're praying for you you know about all the things that you stopped you know about all the things that they tried and you and you're such an unsung hero because most of what you knew never goes notice if you do it properly and so Becky's saying when you are so overwhelmed with all this bad news how do you get up and have hope well you know I used to visit Sri Lanka regularly and the country that I visited this was more than 20 years ago was a multi-ethnic multi-religious this is this kind of a dream dreamscape of people getting along there were Buddhists there were Muslims there were Christians there was a crucifix on this corner and there was a Hindu temple caddy corner across the street and it worked how its come apart and it's been apart for many many years now is is distressing to me if you ask me what gives me hope I will give you an answer that you'll think is can but it's not canned it might be this place I had I had some some preconceived I had I didn't know what this was going to be but I wasn't sure that it would be what I found it's this has just been nothing but a positive look at this generation gives me gives me some hope it really does give yourself a hand awesome so yesterday speaking of just cool just undercover work yesterday you had a bit of an assignment for a few of us and I'd like to watch this and then maybe we can just have a little chat about it let's watch this video Jerri Becky David your mission should you choose to accept it is to serve up burritos in the rocks [Applause] don't worry when I get done with you no one will recognize you [Music] [Applause] maybe one mysterious Becky you'll be Cindy you'll be madly in love with Mikey that you want Gerry you'll be Mike a good old boy Virginia's this tape will self-destruct three seconds [Music] [Music] [Music] well done Jerry thank you David but I have to say having watched you make burritos don't quit your day job [Music] on y'all you did an incredible job normally normally she was telling us she'll work weeks and weeks six weeks on average just to help have someone go deep under from their walking posture to their eye color you had less than an hour with all three of us you did a fantastic job how many of you didn't know you just walk through but dozens and dozens of you were served by your president by the first lady come on y'all that was amazing great job great job Gary great job Becky so much fun it actually brought back memories for me because I've worked in the cafeteria before when it was in another building when I was in school in 1982 84 here my buddy and I went down to Treasure Island that's an island in the James River where the football team used to practice and there was a farm there we got some chickens we put on ski masks we came back to cafeteria was packed full we let the chickens loose and it was mayhem and some poor guy just has surgery on his neck and the chicken of course went right to that guy's neck but he didn't he didn't fight he didn't find out until 25 years later that I was the one that did it but but we did we never would have gotten caught except we bragged about what we did so my job my job was to wash dishes in the cafeteria for a month and I did that was my punishment so yesterday brought back a lot of memories one of us Jerry did get spotted by Caroline's good friend Brooke she's up there Brookes like Jerry Jerry's like Shh be quiet be quiet and so I had to call her real quick do not tell Caroline she does not know anything about this so Brooke kept a good secret Thank You Brooke Anna sent a student a student that works at the raht named opal where's opal is she here she's she's from Colorado and you're talking about these students giving you hope opal said she was planning to go to a state school in Colorado or Kansas and they all had speech codes there were things you couldn't couldn't say and she said I wanted to be able to say what I thought when I went to college that's why she chose Liberty so we're glad you're here opal it really was fun honestly we on purpose try to mess up some of your orders just so we can get good footage on camera but Liberty students are like too nice so somebody would say I want chicken and I would just pile on chicken and they'd go you're doing a really good job how do you like stop being so nice Liberty students this gasset told me is order and he said no sour cream so on purpose I picked up the sour cream he's like no no I don't want that always okay but everybody was so nice and that's what was great being there hearing from Duke mr. OTT or dr. rod or whatever we call and hearing about the banana killer hearing about how great you students are and how amazing you treat the sex ed workers worker there he always interrupts me by the way I don't know how that feels there was a worker there named aunt Audrey and another one another one named Jeannie had been there for 29 years and they both had stories about they'd worked at other well Audrey had worked at three or four other colleges and she said this was by far the kindest students that really appreciate what they do and so thank you so much Joan what made this was such a this was so low level for you because normally you're even even people's walking and everything what made this doable just what were some of the components in something like this that made it like yeah we can we can give it a chop well I started out saying you know I'm not sure we can do this I don't have the materials it would take me a while to get the materials I was like resisting but Pastor Dave wouldn't let me resist and he convinced me that I should come down with whatever I had in my in my bag of tricks so we were working with next to nothing like your beard that was mascara she did ask you asked if president Falwell would shave his beard and we said no to that yeah the first upgrade do you want us to shave Jerry's beard that was a I was at Waffle House the other day and the lady checking me out she said do you teach it at Lu I said now I'm the president and she said oh well you look like a professor so I gotta keep the beard looked a little bit academic but opal I'm here for this opal I'm I'm here for the same reason you are I couldn't say half the things I say at any other University here so we have something in common so what if you'd walked in my lab at CIA saying I need a disguise I would have handed you a razor that would have been step one you know take it off and then then we'll talk about the disguise but no we didn't do that instead I found a water water removable mascara and Jerry let me mascara his beard it actually went really fast it was really I've never used mustard I didn't want to play a clam what made it work what really made it work it wasn't the materials that made it work it was I told them you have to you have to do what they did on the Americans you have to inhabit the disguise did you see him inhabitant his disguise he was another person it was so easy and Cindy this was Cindy Becky figured out who she was before she even walked in the cafeteria she had invented a backstory for herself from Russ Berg and I lived in a trailer but that's what that's what made you run yeah that's what made you believe really now that's very politically incorrect Becky but but David that the students really were nice to us but they were extra nice to David because I think they felt sorry for him I think they I think they thought something was a little wrong but that's three stabs in one combo Wow you're good actor good actor thank you steal late so our our last question and and honestly it really is most of most of the great work you've done is not classified most of the great work you've done goes unnoticed and and I think it sheds so much light in the great when men and women who serve diligently we take our freedom we take our safety for granted and so we just we just want to say thank you to to what you represent and the CIA in our FBI those who stand in harm's way every day at the end of the day your husband Tony who was a great American hero recently passed away and and today as we as we you even remember the movie and different moments it just reminds us that you're just a girl who fell in love with a guy and and as much as you've done with your life and as amazing as a spin this has got to be hard for you to look back on all of this but how can we be praying for you in this particular system we love to pray for you and not just show gratitude what else is coming up on the horizon you know what I'm trying to do what we've tried to do since we left the CIA was was speak speak out to groups of people explaining what what the CIA is to young groups explaining that it is an honorable profession it's a it's a it's a career worth pursuing it's an amazing place to work and if you want to see the world it's a wonderful platform from which to see that world we work with the International Spy Museum we were founding members we're just opening a new Spy Museum in may may 11th in Washington DC and if you get to DC it's it's it's an amazing place it's I've three times as big as the old spy museum and we're writing books to kind of take that message home this is what the CIA did this is how we did it this is how we solved the problems that we encountered in the world of intelligence collecting collect so this book comes out on the 21st this is the only hard copy in the world right now they haven't printed it yet they printed this book for me so I could bring it down here and show it to you it's called the Moscow rules it speaks to how we used magic and deception and illusion on the streets of Moscow working against the KGB it was kind of a last-gasp effort and it was enormous ly successful we went to Hollywood and talk to the people who engineer the magic acts how do you make someone disappear on a stage we want to do it in Moscow they told us how so it's the book is fun to read it's a combination of two elements that you wouldn't think belong together espionage and magic are the rules about what you could talk about now that you're out oh yes I can talk about everything that's in the four books that we've written I know I can do that without getting a call or letters into the CIA they go through they go through a stringent review process the first book went through seven times they were nervous back then today we have a track record at CIA and today as we were finishing this book my husband was not doing well and they they'll never admit to it but I think they expedited it to get it through and approved while he would still be aware our graduates are really favored by that intelligence agencies FBI a lot of them have gotten hired the FBI are by the way our school or government faculty is up in the Box today if you guys stand up let's give them a hand so thankful for them but some have moved up really quickly in both agencies and it's um it's it's a real testament are our graduates well if you're interested in making a difference if you'd like to get out there and and have a rather direct impact on what's happening in the world today these agencies are a wonderful place to to begin a career we'd love to close our time by praying for miss mendez and and really who she represents in front of us today those who diligently serve faithfully serve our nation into these particular fields like the CIA so let's just close our eyes and lay our hands towards our friend and let's just close our time in prayer father we thank you for just a faithful servant of this nation we thank you God that every day all around the world agents and just men and women who believe in this cause do good work so that we would be able to get on a train and be safe be able to God get on a plane and not have to fear for our lives thank you Lord that they don't just gather information but they use it God to create for us a better world I pray for them Lord for their safety provision protection even now god I thank you for our sister and I pray blessing on her life thank you Lord that as she tells these stories that it does recruit great people that would step into this field as well I think it for the hope that she's received just being around Liberty students the Spirit of the Lord on them I pray that it just continues to fill her cup even in this moment as she's continuing to lament God the loss of her husband thank you Lord amen hey before we finish we do have one more convocation obviously on Friday but this semester more than any we have we have burdened president Falwell and Becky to be a part of a lot of combos at a deeper level it took hours yesterday for them to come and serve and everything from arm wrestling you know Superman to getting in the car track there's a lot of investment from the busiest person by far on this campus can we thank president Falwell and Becky for the great work that they do so thankful for them [Applause] [Music] we'll see you on Friday hey being with you guys is a lot more fun than working so I enjoyed it

Channel: Liberty University

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Keywords: Liberty University, LibertyU, Liberty, Jerry Falwell

Id: E8uhHziE3H8

Length: 47min 2sec (2822 seconds)

Published: Wed Apr 24 2019