Jon Meacham and Doris Kearns Goodwin at The Richmond Forum

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<b>>> THE WORLD IS NEITHER FLAT NOR</b> <b>BINARY, NOR FINITE.</b> <b>BLACK AND WHITE LIE SEPARATED BY</b> <b>COUNTLESS SHADES OF GRAY.</b> <b>FROM OUR UNIQUE POINTS OF VIEW, </b> <b>WE BEGIN TO UNDERSTAND THE WORLD</b> <b>BY ADDING THE VIEWS OF OTHERS.</b> <b>THEIR KNOWLEDGE.</b> <b>THEIR EXPERIENCE.</b> <b>THEIR IDEAS.</b> <b>THEIR STORIES AND ART.</b> <b>THEIR FAILURES AND TRIUMPHS.</b> <b>TONIGHT, THE WE EXPAND OUR WORLD</b> <b>VIEW BY ADDING DEPTH TO OUR </b> <b>UNDERSTANDING.</b> <b>DIMENSION TO SOMEONE KNOWN ONLY </b> <b>FROM AFAR.</b> <b>PERSPECTIVE TO OUR PAST.</b> <b>AND A FEW PLACES WE'VE NEVER </b> <b>BEEN.</b> <b>TOGETHER, WE SET OUT TO CHANGE </b> <b>THE WORLD.</b> <b>SIMPLY BY CHANGING THE WAY WE </b> <b>LOOK AT THE WORLD.</b> <b>WELCOME TO RICHMOND FORUM.</b> <b>TONIGHT, ON THE FIRST FULL DAY </b> <b>OF THE NEW ADMINISTRATION, WE </b> <b>SEEK PERSPECTIVE BY TAKING A </b> <b>LONG VIEW OF AMERICA'S </b> <b>FIRST-TERM PRESIDENTS WITH </b> <b>ACCLAIMED HISTORIANS AND OUR </b> <b>MODERATOR, STEVE INSKI.</b> <b>WELCOME.</b> <b>>> IT IS WONDERFUL TO BE WITH </b> <b>YOU TONIGHT BECAUSE YESTERDAY, I</b> <b>WAS IN WASHINGTON, D.C. AND </b> <b>COVERED THE INAUGURATION.</b> <b>AND HAD A SEAT OVERLOOKING THE </b> <b>PLATFORM, SO I GOT TO SEE THE </b> <b>FORMER PRESIDENTS, THE CURRENT </b> <b>PRESIDENT ABOUT TO BE THE </b> <b>EX-PRESIDENT, THE </b> <b>PRESIDENT-ELECT ABOUT TO BE THE </b> <b>PRESIDENT, ALL OF THEM SHAKING </b> <b>HANDS, TOUCH ELBOWS AND WORK THE</b> <b>ROOM A LITTLE BIT.</b> <b>I'M TRYING TO MAKE SENSE OF WHAT</b> <b>ON EARTH HAPPENED AS I THINK </b> <b>MANY OF THE REST OF US ARE.</b> <b>THIS HAS BEEN AN ASTONISHING </b> <b>ELECTION.</b> <b>I'D LIKE TO BEGIN ABOUT WHAT </b> <b>IT'S BEEN LIKE TO WATCH THIS </b> <b>LAST YEAR AND A HALF.</b> <b>THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT FELT </b> <b>DISLOCATED AS IF SOMETHING IS </b> <b>HAPPENING THAT NEVER HAPPENED </b> <b>BEFORE.</b> <b>WHAT'S HAPPENING TO US? </b> <b>>> PEOPLE WILL ASK YOU, HOW DID </b> <b>WE GET TRUMP?</b> <b>AS IF I'M GOING TO KNOW BUT I </b> <b>THINK THERE IS -- YOU KNOW, </b> <b>RIGHT?</b> <b>JUST SAY WELL -- </b> <b>>> WELL.</b> <b>THAT LOOKING BACK TO THE TURN OF</b> <b>THE CENTURY, YOU CAN SEE WHY THE</b> <b>ANXIETY AND ANGER AND FEAR </b> <b>ALLOWED A POPULIST MESSAGE, I </b> <b>THINK, TO GET THROUGH.</b> <b>YOU HAD THE ECONOMY UP ENDED AND</b> <b>ALL SORTS OF INVENTIONS SPEEDING</b> <b>UP LIVE.</b> <b>PEOPLE FELT LIKE THE CITIES WERE</b> <b>TAKING THEM OVER.</b> <b>THERE WAS LOTS OF IMMIGRATION </b> <b>FROM ABROAD AND YOU HAD </b> <b>POPULISM.</b> <b>IT'S IN A PROTEST MOVEMENT AND </b> <b>DIDN'T MAKE ITS WAY AS THIS ONE </b> <b>DID INTO A MAJOR PARTY.</b> <b>WHAT WE SEE TODAY IS A </b> <b>TECHNOLOGICAL REVOLUTION.</b> <b>IMMIGRATION.</b> <b>PEOPLE IN THE RURAL AREAS </b> <b>SEPARATED OFF FROM THE CITY.</b> <b>SO THAT SAME MIX, I THINK </b> <b>ALLOWED TRUMP TO BECOME THE </b> <b>NOMINEE.</b> <b>THE SAME SHIFT WON'T HAVE WORKED</b> <b>BECAUSE IN THE OLD DAYS THE </b> <b>POLITICIANS USED TO CHOOSE WHO </b> <b>WAS AT THE CONVENTIONS AND THEY </b> <b>CHOSE THEMSELVES.</b> <b>GOVERNORS, SENATORS AND MAYORS. </b> <b>>> THERE WEREN'T VM -- VERY MANY</b> <b>DELEGATES. </b> <b>>> UNLESS THERE WAS A MILITARY </b> <b>CHARACTER AROUND, THEY'D CHOOSE </b> <b>A FELLOW POLITICIAN.</b> <b>IF THAT WERE TRUE NOW THERE IS </b> <b>NO WAY DONALD TRUMP WOULD HAVE </b> <b>BEEN CHOSEN BY THE POLITICIANS.</b> <b>THE PRIMARIES WERE STARTED BY MY</b> <b>GUY, TEDDY ROOSEVELT.</b> <b>IT WAS HIS FAULT.</b> <b>THE GUY I LIVED WITH EIGHT </b> <b>YEARS. </b> <b>>> IT'S YOUR FAULT. </b> <b>>> IT'S MY FAULT. </b> <b>>> IN 1912 HE WANTS TO RUN </b> <b>AGAINST TAFT.</b> <b>BUT TAFT IS THE PRESIDENT </b> <b>SITTING THERE.</b> <b>REALLY SITTING THERE.</b> <b>AND HE HAS, HE HAS CONTROL OF </b> <b>THE PARTY MACHINERY.</b> <b>SO TEDDY IS THE ONLY WAY WE CAN </b> <b>GET THE NOMINATION IS TO HAVE A </b> <b>PRIMARY SYSTEM.</b> <b>SO HE STARTS A CRUSADE.</b> <b>LET THE PEOPLE DECIDE.</b> <b>13 PRIMARIES ARE CREATED.</b> <b>TAFT STILL HAS PARTY MACHINERY.</b> <b>TAFT WINS THE ELECTION AND SOME </b> <b>REPUBLICAN SENATOR SAID NOW THE </b> <b>ONLY QUESTION IF RUNNING AGAINST</b> <b>EACH OTHER IS WHICH PORT IS </b> <b>GOING TO GET THE MOST FLOWERS </b> <b>AND WOOD ROW WILSON WINS.</b> <b>THEY COME BACK IN, AND IN THE </b> <b>50s, 60s, AND 70s AND TODAY.</b> <b>AND SO THE PEOPLE SPOKE AND </b> <b>RESPONDED TO MAKE AMERICA GREAT </b> <b>AGAIN.</b> <b>THE MESSAGE OF ANTI-IMMIGRATION </b> <b>AND FREE TRADE, ETC. </b> <b>>> SO YOU HEAR RESONANCES OF THE</b> <b>PAST AS DIFFERENT AS IT MAY SEEM</b> <b>TO SOME OF US NOW.</b> <b>>> WHEN DORIS AND I TRIED TO ASK</b> <b>QUESTIONS TO OUR DEAD SUBJECTS </b> <b>PEOPLE GET WORRIED.</b> <b>>> I REMEMBER TALKING.</b> <b>ELEANOR, JUST FORGET HE HAD AN </b> <b>AFFAIR AND JUST BE NICER TO HER.</b> <b>>> MORE GOSSIP ABOUT DEAD </b> <b>PEOPLE.</b> <b>>> DORIS'S LIFE IS THE SHINING </b> <b>MEETS C-SPAN.</b> <b>>> IT'S IMPOSSIBLE. </b> <b>>> WE DO INTERVENTIONS.</b> <b>I DO.</b> <b>I WAS WRONG ABOUT TRUMP.</b> <b>I THOUGHT WE'RE ENTERING A </b> <b>MOMENT LIKE THE FAMOUS ESSAY </b> <b>PUBLISHED AT THE COVER STORY IN </b> <b>HARPER'S MAGAZINE IN OCTOBER, </b> <b>1964.</b> <b>IN WHICH HOFFSTED AND CONSPIRACY</b> <b>THEORYS AS JEFFERSON THOUGHT </b> <b>HAMILTON WAS TRYING TO SELL US </b> <b>OUT TO THE BRITISH.</b> <b>AND THE MESSAGE TO JEFFERSON, </b> <b>MEET ME OUT BACK.</b> <b>JUST MY LUCK, IT'S THE OTHER </b> <b>GUY.</b> <b>>> GOVERNOR CHRIS CHRISTIE OF </b> <b>NNL ENGINEER CALLED AND ASKED ME</b> <b>SWEETLY TO COME TO LUNCH IN </b> <b>TRENTON TO TALK ABOUT JEFFERSON.</b> <b>HAPPY TO DO IT HE SAID I'M MORE </b> <b>OF A HAMILTONIN.</b> <b>I SAID THAT IS GREAT, BUT MY GUY</b> <b>DIDN'T GET SHOT IN JERSEY.</b> <b>THE DAMNEDEST THING HAPPENED.</b> <b>I COULDN'T GET BACK INTO THE </b> <b>CITY.</b> <b>SO ANYWAY.</b> <b>>> SEE HOW LEARNED THIS AUDIENCE</b> <b>IS?</b> <b>ALL OF THESE STORIES, YOU GET </b> <b>THEM.</b> <b>>> THAT WAS BEFORE GOVERNOR </b> <b>CHRIS CHRISTIE BECAME PATTY </b> <b>HEARST.</b> <b>SO.</b> <b>BACK TO RICHARD HOFFSTEDER. </b> <b>>> 1964, OCTOBER.</b> <b>PARANOID STYLE.</b> <b>>> YOU HAVE THESE MOMENTS WHERE </b> <b>THERE IS A SENSE FROM A </b> <b>DISPOSSESSED PART OF THE PUBLIC </b> <b>THAT BELIEVES THAT THIS IS TO </b> <b>USE A CURRENT PHRASE, RIGGED </b> <b>AGAINST THEM.</b> <b>BAVARIAN ILLUMINATI OF THE EARLY</b> <b>REPUBLIC TO THE JOHN HEARST </b> <b>SOCIETY IN 1964 WHICH IS WHAT </b> <b>THE OCCASION WAS.</b> <b>AND WHAT TENDS TO HAPPEN IS THAT</b> <b>THIS PARANOID ENERGY, THIS </b> <b>POPULIST ENERGY GETS ABSORBED BY</b> <b>THE MAJOR PARTY USUALLY BEFORE </b> <b>IT CAN GET TOO FAR OUT OF </b> <b>CONTROL.</b> <b>SO GEORGE WALLACE, THE </b> <b>REPUBLICANS TOOK THAT ENERGY </b> <b>AWAY FROM HIM.</b> <b>THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY, FRANKLY, </b> <b>WHEN IT WAS A PARTY OF </b> <b>SEGREGATIONISTS TOOK THIS ENERGY</b> <b>AWAY FROM STROM THURMOND WHO RAN</b> <b>IN 1948.</b> <b>ROSS PERO, YOU KNOW THERE IS A </b> <b>LITTLE MORE POPULISM.</b> <b>THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN THIS TIME.</b> <b>TO SOME EXTENT, TRUMP'S TRIUMPH </b> <b>WAS THE FIRST REPORTED CASE OF A</b> <b>HIJACKER BOARDING A PLANE, </b> <b>HAVING PASSENGER SIDE WITHIN.</b> <b>>> DO YOU MAKE THESE THINGS UP?</b> <b>>> IT REALLY IS.</b> <b>TO ME, IT'S LESS BROADLY </b> <b>HISTORICAL.</b> <b>TWO NUMBERS EXPLAIN WHY DONALD </b> <b>TRUMP BECAME PRESIDENT OF THE </b> <b>UNITED STATES YESTERDAY.</b> <b>ONE IS 17.</b> <b>WHEN DORIS'S FRIEND LYNDON </b> <b>JOHNSON WAS PRESIDENT IN 1965, </b> <b>77% OF AMERICAN PEOPLE TRUSTED </b> <b>THE AMERICAN GOVERNMENT.</b> <b>77.</b> <b>TODAY, THAT NUMBER IS 17%.</b> <b>SECOND NUMBER IS 130,000.</b> <b>$130,000 IS WHAT JOE BIDEN'S </b> <b>MIDDLE CLASS TASK FORCE SAID WAS</b> <b>THE HOUSEHOLD INCOME NEEDED TO </b> <b>LIVE A CLASSIC POST WORLD WAR II</b> <b>MIDDLE CLASS LIFE.</b> <b>IN THIS COUNTRY, HOUSEHOLD </b> <b>INCOME IS $55,700.</b> <b>IN THAT MISSING GAP, OF BOTH </b> <b>TRUST AND INCOME, YOU HAD </b> <b>GASOLINE ON THE FLOOR AND IN </b> <b>THIS REMARKABLE CULTURAL FIGURE,</b> <b>REMEMBER, TRUMP IS A CULTURAL </b> <b>FIGURE.</b> <b>NOT A POLITICAL ONE, FIRST.</b> <b>HE IS THE MATCH THAT WENT ON THE</b> <b>FLOOR.</b> <b>AND THAT IS WHAT WE'RE LIVING </b> <b>WITH.</b> <b>>> WE'VE RESOLVED THE WHOLE </b> <b>PROBLEM.</b> <b>WE'RE GOING TO GO NOW. </b> <b>>> THANK YOU, I REALLY </b> <b>APPRECIATE THAT.</b> <b>I APPRECIATE THOSE INSIGHTS.</b> <b>WE'RE SITTING HERE TRYING TO PUT</b> <b>PRESIDENT TRUMP INTO HISTORICAL </b> <b>CONTEXT.</b> <b>DO YOU THINK THAT PRESIDENT </b> <b>TRUMP HAS A DEEP APPRECIATION OF</b> <b>HISTORY?</b> <b>>> WELL -- </b> <b>>> THANK YOU FOR COMING.</b> <b>>> THERE HAVE BEEN RECENT </b> <b>ARTICLES SAYING THAT HE DOESN'T </b> <b>REALLY READ HISTORY AND DOESN'T </b> <b>READ A LOT.</b> <b>TEDDY ROOSEVELT SAID BOOKS ARE </b> <b>THE GREATEST COMPANIONS.</b> <b>YOU UNDERSTAND HUMAN NATURE IN </b> <b>PART HAIRY TRUMAN NEVER WENT TO </b> <b>COLLEGE BUT HE READ HISTORY.</b> <b>YOU HAVE TO BELIEVE BY READING </b> <b>ABOUT THE PEOPLE THAT WENT </b> <b>BEFORE AND THEIR STRUGGLE THAT'S</b> <b>YOU'RE GOING TO LEARN SOMETHING.</b> <b>YOU'RE GOING TO GROW FROM THAT </b> <b>JUST AS WE GROW FROM OUR PARENTS</b> <b>AND GRANDPARENTS, YOU HOPEFULLY </b> <b>GROW FROM IT AND DON'T HAVE TO </b> <b>START OVER AGAIN.</b> <b>THE OTHER DAY THERE WAS A </b> <b>PICTURE OF TRUMP'S DESK.</b> <b>THIS SURPRISED MY, UNTIL, I'LL </b> <b>TELL YOU WHAT HAPPENED.</b> <b>THERE WAS MAGAZINES ON THERE AND</b> <b>TWO COPIES OF THE NEW BOOK </b> <b>"UNPREDICTABLE" AND UNDERNEATH, </b> <b>TEAM OF RIVALS.</b> <b>A REPORTER SAYS THIS IS </b> <b>EXCITING.</b> <b>HE SAID SOMEONE GAVE IT TO HIM </b> <b>AS A GIFT BUT HE'S NOT ACTIVELY </b> <b>READING IT.</b> <b>JUST TO BE FAIR TO HIM. </b> <b>>> HE DOES READ HISTORY.</b> <b>THERE ARE 30 YEARS OF MAGAZINE </b> <b>COVERS. </b> <b>>> ON THE DESK. </b> <b>>> WITH HIS FACE.</b> <b>30 YEARS.</b> <b>THAT IS A LOT OF HISTORY. </b> <b>>> I WAS GOING TO SAY TO BE FAIR</b> <b>TO HIM, HE SAYS HE LEARNS RATHER</b> <b>THROUGH CONVERSATION.</b> <b>IN THE PRESIDENCY HE RAN MOSTLY </b> <b>MYSTERIES AT NIGHT.</b> <b>HE DIDN'T READ A LOT OF BOOKS </b> <b>DURING HIS TIME BUT HE WAS ABLE </b> <b>TO ABSORB CONVERSATIONS WITH </b> <b>PEOPLE.</b> <b>THAT IS HOW HE LEARNED.</b> <b>HE WAS A GREAT QUESTIONER.</b> <b>PEOPLE ARE TALKING TO HIM AND </b> <b>GIVING HIM INFORMATION AND HAVE </b> <b>EXPERTS IN THE FIELD THAT HE CAN</b> <b>LEARN FROM THEM. </b> <b>>> I WENT TO SEE MR. TRUMP.</b> <b>LAST MAY TO TALK ABOUT JUST </b> <b>THIS.</b> <b>AND WENT TO TRUMP TOWER.</b> <b>HE WAS VERY GRACIOUS.</b> <b>IT WAS LIKE AN ADMIRAL MARY </b> <b>POPPINS.</b> <b>HE HAD A HAT AND FIRING OFF </b> <b>CANNONS.</b> <b>SITTING BEHIND THE DESK AND </b> <b>THERE ARE GOLF TROPHIES </b> <b>EVERYWHERE.</b> <b>I RECOGNIZE THOSE BECAUSE I HAVE</b> <b>NONE.</b> <b>AND THERE ARE THE OLD MAGAZINE </b> <b>COVERED, FRAMED AND COVERS OF </b> <b>HIS THAT ARE ALL OVER.</b> <b>THIS IS A -- REALLY -- HE </b> <b>DOESN'T READ HISTORY.</b> <b>BUT HIS BASIC VIEW IS, AND HE </b> <b>SAID IT THIS AFTERNOON VISITING </b> <b>GEORGE HW BUSH CENTER OF </b> <b>INTELLIGENCE AT LANGLY WHEN HE </b> <b>WENT TO SEE THE CIA TODAY HE'S A</b> <b>SMART PERSON.</b> <b>HE BELIEVES HE IS INTELLECTUALLY</b> <b>EQUIPPED, LARGELY BY INSTINCT, </b> <b>TO DO THIS JOB.</b> <b>AND IF YOU DO WHAT WE DO FOR A </b> <b>LIVING, THAT SEEMS UNLIKELY.</b> <b>HIS POINT, WHICH IS A PURE </b> <b>POPULIST VIEW IS IF THE EXPERTS </b> <b>WERE SO SMART, WHY WON'T THE </b> <b>WORLD BE IN BETTER SHAPE?</b> <b>IF THE PEOPLE WHO READ HISTORY </b> <b>WERE SO WELL INFORMED WHY DO WE </b> <b>HAVE THAT INCOME GAP?</b> <b>WHY DO WE HAVE A SITUATION IN </b> <b>THE MIDDLE EAST THAT WE HAVE?</b> <b>SO WHY DON'T YOU BELIEVE SOMEONE</b> <b>WHO BELIEVES, JUST TOTALLY LIVES</b> <b>IN THE MOMENT.</b> <b>I NEVER MET A PERSON THAT LIVES </b> <b>IN THE MOMENT LIKE THIS.</b> <b>IT'S CABLE NEWS, WHATEVER COMES </b> <b>ACROSS TWITTER.</b> <b>LIKE AN OPEN SYNAPSE.</b> <b>AND WE HAVE TO SOME EXTENT </b> <b>RESPECT THE FACT THE RIGHT </b> <b>NUMBER OF VOTERS MADE THIS </b> <b>DECISION.</b> <b>SO HE SAYS STONE WALL JACKSON </b> <b>HAD BEEN IN CHARGE INSTEAD OF </b> <b>GENERAL LEE.</b> <b>SORRY.</b> <b>YOU KNOW?</b> <b>WOULD THAT HAVE BEEN DIFFERENT?</b> <b>WHAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED IF </b> <b>FOREST HAS BEEN UNLEASHED MORE.</b> <b>AND HE TOLD ME HE ONCE CANCELLED</b> <b>A GOLF MATCH BECAUSE THERE WAS A</b> <b>MARATHON ON OF KEN'S CIVIL WAR.</b> <b>AND IF YOU KNOW TRUMP IT'S </b> <b>PRETTY MUCH THE ULTIMATE </b> <b>SACRIFICE.</b> <b>I CALLED HIM BACK TO SEE IF </b> <b>THERE IS ANYTHING.</b> <b>HAVE YOU READ DORIS AND READ </b> <b>DAVID McCULLAUH?</b> <b>HE TOLD ME HE READ BILL </b> <b>O'REILLY'S BOOKS.</b> <b>>> THAT IS THE ASSASSINATION </b> <b>BOOKS. </b> <b>>> YES.</b> <b>THE KILLING BOOKS.</b> <b>HE READ A BOOK ABOUT THE RISE OF</b> <b>ISIS AND ONE NEGATIVE PARTISAN </b> <b>BOOK ABOUT HITLER.</b> <b>THAT IS IT.</b> <b>HE BELIEVES HE'S A NATURAL.</b> <b>HE COMPARED HIMSELF TO LYDIA KO </b> <b>SAYING SHE WAS ONCE ASKED ON A </b> <b>GOLF CHANNEL INTERVIEW, WHAT </b> <b>YOUR SWING THOUGHTS?</b> <b>SHE SAID I DON'T KNOW, I JUST </b> <b>SWING.</b> <b>AND COMPARED TO BABE RUTH, HEY, </b> <b>BABE, HOW DO YOU HIT THE LONG </b> <b>BALL?</b> <b>HE REPLIED I DON'T KNOW, I JUST </b> <b>SWING AT IT.</b> <b>THAT IS ME.</b> <b>HE REPEATED THOSE POINTS IN </b> <b>INTERVIEWS.</b> <b>WE HAVE MOVED IN THE TYPICAL </b> <b>AMERICAN WAY OF MOVING FROM ONE </b> <b>GUARDRAIL TO ANOTHER AND HAVE </b> <b>MOSTED FROM THE MOST </b> <b>INTELLECTUAL PRESIDENT, </b> <b>CERTAINLY, I WOULD ARGUE, SINCE </b> <b>JEFFERSON SO VALIDLY THE LEAST </b> <b>INTELLECTUAL PRESIDENT YOU CAN </b> <b>IMAGINE.</b> <b>HE WOULD ACCEPT THAT AND SAY </b> <b>YES.</b> <b>>> THAT IS A GOOD THING.</b> <b>YES. </b> <b>>> ARE WE STILL WITHIN THE </b> <b>GUARDRAILS?</b> <b>>> WHAT WORRIES ME IS THAT IT </b> <b>WAS ONE THING DURING THE </b> <b>CAMPAIGN.</b> <b>HE'D GET ANGRY WITH SOMEBODY TO </b> <b>BE ABLE TO PUT OUT TWEETS THAT </b> <b>COARSENED DIALOGUE TERRIBLY.</b> <b>IF THAT CONTINUES YOU'RE GOING </b> <b>TO HAVE TO LEARN HOW TO MANAGE </b> <b>AND STRESSFUL TIMES, YOUR </b> <b>NEGATIVE EMOTIONS.</b> <b>UNLESS HE CAN FIGURE OUT A WAY </b> <b>TO DO THAT IF HE TWEETS OUT </b> <b>ANGRY THINGS DIALOGUE OF THE </b> <b>COUNTRY COULD GET US OVER THOSE </b> <b>GUARDRAILS.</b> <b>I MEAN, I KEEP WISHING HE CAN </b> <b>HAVE A FAKE TWITTER ACCOUNT.</b> <b>WHENEVER FEELING GOOD, HE COULD </b> <b>BE THE REAL ONE AND HE'LL TALK </b> <b>TO HIS PEOPLE AND IT WILL BE </b> <b>GREAT.</b> <b>LINCOLN HAD THIS HOT LETTER </b> <b>THING HE WOULD DO.</b> <b>HE WOULD WRITE A LETTER AND PUT </b> <b>IT ASIDE AND NEVER SEND IT.</b> <b>AND SO UPSET HE WROTE A LONG </b> <b>LETTER SAYING YOU DIDN'T DO WHAT</b> <b>WE ASKED YOU TO DO.</b> <b>THE WAR COULD HAVE BEEN OVER </b> <b>SOON.</b> <b>HE KNEW IT WOULD PARALYZE THE </b> <b>GENERAL IN THE FIELD.</b> <b>THEN, UNDERNEATH NOTATION, NEVER</b> <b>SENT, NEVER SIGNED AND LINCOLN </b> <b>DID THAT REGULARLY.</b> <b>WHEN ROOS FELT CAME IN, A YOUNG </b> <b>SPEECH WRITER CAME IN SAYING </b> <b>HORRIBLE THINGS ABOUT SOME </b> <b>ISOLATIONIST SAYING IF YOU'RE </b> <b>GOING TO DO THAT, HE SAID DON'T </b> <b>WORRY.</b> <b>SECOND DRAFT IS THERE.</b> <b>HE GOT IT OUT OF HIS SYSTEM.</b> <b>I INTERVIEWED PRESIDENT OBAMA </b> <b>FOR AN EXIT INTERVIEW WITH </b> <b>"VANITY FAIR" I WAS TELLING HIM </b> <b>ABOUT LINCOLN'S HOT LETTERS AND </b> <b>SAID DO YOU THINK OF DOING THAT?</b> <b>HE SAID I DO IT ALL THE TIME.</b> <b>I SAID I'M WRITING THINGS DOWN </b> <b>AND LETTERS TO THE PEOPLE AND I </b> <b>CRUMPEL THEM UP AND PUT THEM IN </b> <b>THE WASTE BASKET.</b> <b>THAT SHOWS SELF REFLECTION AND </b> <b>AWARENESS OF YOUR WEAKNESSES AND</b> <b>THAT YOU UNDERSTAND YOU HAVE TO </b> <b>HAVE A GOVERNOR ON YOUR SELF.</b> <b>CONQUERING YOURSELF IS PROBABLY </b> <b>THE MOST-IMPORTANT THING.</b> <b>UNLESS HE CAN, I WORRY ABOUT </b> <b>WHERE THESE GUARDRAILS MIGHT BE.</b> <b>>> ONE EXPLANATION FOR WATER </b> <b>GATE IS THAT NIXON SAID GO BOMB </b> <b>BROOKINGS OR KILL DEMOCRATS OR </b> <b>WHATEVER HE SAID AFTER A COUPLE </b> <b>SIPS OF SCOTCH, YOU'RE, HR'S JOB</b> <b>WAS JUST NOT TO DO ANYTHING. </b> <b>>> RIGHT. </b> <b>>> THERE IS A THEORY THAT JUST. </b> <b>>> THIS IS HENRY KISSIN GER'S </b> <b>FAMOUS LINE.</b> <b>AND YOU'RE REMINDING ME, I WISH </b> <b>I CAN REMEMBER WHICH COMEDIAN, </b> <b>BUT TRUMP WOULD BE TALKING ABOUT</b> <b>TWITTER THEN DISCOVER TWEETS </b> <b>WERE PUBLIC.</b> <b>I'D LIKE TO BRING ANOTHER </b> <b>PRESIDENT INTO THE PICTURE, </b> <b>YOU'RE A BIOGRAPHER OF ANDREW </b> <b>JACKSON.</b> <b>WHAT DID YOU THINK WHEN PEOPLE </b> <b>BEGAN MAKING THE COMPARISON </b> <b>BETWEEN DONALD TRUMP AND ANDREW </b> <b>JACKSON?</b> <b>>> WELL, THERE IS THE HAIR.</b> <b>>> THE MOMENT IS JACKSONIN.</b> <b>JACKSON WAS THE FIRST AMERICAN </b> <b>PRESIDENT NOT A VIRGINIA PLANTER</b> <b>OR ADAMS FROM MASSACHUSETTS.</b> <b>HENRY CLAY COINED THE PHRASE </b> <b>"SELF MADE MAN" IN THE AGE OF </b> <b>JACKSON.</b> <b>HE WAS THAT.</b> <b>FROM THE LOWEST REACHES OF WHITE</b> <b>SOCIETY, HE WAS AN ORPHAN, HE </b> <b>LOST HIS MOTHER AND BROTHERS IN </b> <b>THE REVOLUTION.</b> <b>AND WHEN HE CAME TO WASHINGTON </b> <b>IN 1929, HOWEVER, HE CAME AS A </b> <b>FORMER SENATOR, JUDGE, FORMER </b> <b>PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE.</b> <b>SOMEONE, WHO, AS DORIS IS JUST </b> <b>SAYING UNDERSTOOD HIS OWN </b> <b>WEAKNESSES.</b> <b>HE UNDERSTAND HE HAD A TEMPER.</b> <b>HE HAD TWO BULLETS LONLED IN HIM</b> <b>WHEN HE TOOK THE OATH OF OFFICE.</b> <b>ONE KEY THING ABOUT JACKSON IS </b> <b>TO REMEMBER IS IN THOSE DUELS HE</b> <b>FIRED THE SECOND SHOT.</b> <b>>> DID HE ASSUME THEY WON'T BE </b> <b>GOOD SHOTS?</b> <b>>> OR WILLING TO TAKE THE PAIN. </b> <b>>> HE WANTED TO MAKE SURE HE </b> <b>KILLED THE OTHER GUY. </b> <b>>> ONE MOMENT IS THIS BOOT </b> <b>FILLED WITH BLOOD AS HE KILLED A</b> <b>MAN, JOHN DICTINSON WHO ATTACKED</b> <b>HIS WIFE, RACHEL.</b> <b>THE ATTACK WAS TRUE.</b> <b>TO ME, GREAT STORY ABOUT JACKSON</b> <b>THAT SEPARATES IT FROM THE </b> <b>TRUMP, JACKSONIN COMPARISONS </b> <b>WHICH BY THE WAY ARE RECENT, IN </b> <b>THAT INTERVIEW, I DID WITH HIM, </b> <b>JACKSON NEVER CAME UP.</b> <b>IF MENTIONING HIM, HE WOULD HAVE</b> <b>THOUGHT I WAS TALKING ABOUT </b> <b>REGGIE.</b> <b>I DON'T THINK WE WOULD HAVE HAD </b> <b>A LOT OF -- A LOT THERE.</b> <b>>> WHAT ARE THE PARALLELS </b> <b>BETWEEN DONALD TRUMP AND REGGIE </b> <b>JACKSON?</b> <b>>> SO I THINK THAT JACKSON IN </b> <b>WINTER 1832, 33 WE HAD A SHE </b> <b>DOWN WITH SOUTH CAROLINA.</b> <b>AND I KNEW THAT. </b> <b>>> JACKSONIN. </b> <b>>> YOU KNOW, STEVE CALHOUN HAD </b> <b>BEEN HIS VICE PRESIDENT.</b> <b>JACKSON SAID HIS RECRUITS IS </b> <b>THAT HE HAD NOT HUNG HENRY CLAY </b> <b>AND SHOT JOHN C CALHOUN, NOBODY </b> <b>FELT THAT WAY ABOUT THE VICE </b> <b>PRESIDENT AGAIN UNTIL JOHN </b> <b>MCCAIN.</b> <b>SO THIS IS A FREE ONE.</b> <b>IT'S A FREE ONE.</b> <b>OKAY?</b> <b>THAT IS JUST A FREEBIE ON </b> <b>INAUGURATION WEEKEND.</b> <b>SOUTH CAROLINA WANTED THE RIGHT </b> <b>TO NULL YI FI FEDERAL LAW.</b> <b>JACKSON POUNDED THE DESK.</b> <b>THREATENED, I'LL HANG THE FIRST </b> <b>NULL FIEER.</b> <b>I'LL WALK INTO SOUTH CAROLINA </b> <b>WITH 10,000 MEN.</b> <b>YOUR GOVERNOR SIDED WITH </b> <b>JACKSON.</b> <b>SO, HE'S MAKING ALL OF THE RIGHT</b> <b>NOISES ABOUT WAR LIFE, FITTING, </b> <b>PLAYING THE TYPE.</b> <b>YOU KNOW, AMERICAN BONAPRTE.</b> <b>WHAT IS HE DOING ALL NIGHT?</b> <b>WRITING LETTERS TO HIS MAN ON </b> <b>THE GROUND SAYING WHATEVER YOU </b> <b>DO, DON'T MAKE THE FIRST MOVE.</b> <b>IF THERE IS TO BE CIVIL WAR, WE </b> <b>CAN NOT BE AGGRESSOR.</b> <b>HE WAS MANAGING AND MARSHALLING </b> <b>HIS TEMPER TO GET TO THE RIGHT </b> <b>PLACE AND WE GOT TO THE RIGHT </b> <b>PLACE.</b> <b>HE GAVE US 30 YEARS TO FORM WHAT</b> <b>IS CALLED MYSTIC BOARDS OF </b> <b>MEMORY.</b> <b>THE JACKSON I BELIEVE IN IS </b> <b>SOMEONE WHO HAD A TEMPER BUT </b> <b>DEVELOPED A TEMPERAMENT. </b> <b>>> TEMPERAMENT CAME UP IN THE </b> <b>ELECTION.</b> <b>PROBABLY SHOULD HAVE BEEN THINGS</b> <b>WE'RE LOOKING AT IN THE VERY </b> <b>BEGINNING.</b> <b>WHAT KIND OF TEMPERAMENT A </b> <b>LEADER BRINGS TO ANY LEADERSHIP </b> <b>JOB MEANS THEIR BASIC </b> <b>DISPOSITION IN LIFE.</b> <b>ARE THEY ABLE TO MEET WITH </b> <b>PEOPLE FROM OTHER PLACES? TO </b> <b>CONTROL THEIR EMOTIONS?</b> <b>A LOT OF TIMES THAT COMES FROM </b> <b>HAVING BEEN THROUGH DIFFICULTIES</b> <b>THEMSELVES.</b> <b>WHEN ASKED HE SAID I HAVE THE </b> <b>BEST TEMPERAMENT OF ANYONE IN </b> <b>PRESIDENCY BECAUSE I ALWAYS WIN.</b> <b>THAT IS NOT TRUE.</b> <b>OF ALL OF THE LEADERS I HAVE </b> <b>STUDIED, THEY NOT ONLY LOST BUT </b> <b>SUFFERED AND FROM THAT SUFFERING</b> <b>ROOS FELT, FRANKLIN BECAME A </b> <b>MUCH-BETTER PRESIDENT AFTER </b> <b>GOING THROUGH POLIO.</b> <b>HE KNEW WHAT IT WAS LIKE TO HAVE</b> <b>FATE DEAL YOU AN UNKIND HAND.</b> <b>SO HE CAN DEAL WITH PEOPLE IN A </b> <b>MUCH DEEPER WAY.</b> <b>THERE IS HUMILITY HE LEARNED </b> <b>FROM THAT.</b> <b>IT'S NOT EASY TO SEE MR. TRUMP </b> <b>HAS.</b> <b>I WAS THINKING ABOUT GEORGE </b> <b>WASHINGTON.</b> <b>HE CAME TO HIS INAUGURATION.</b> <b>AND HE HE SAID HE'S FEELING LIKE</b> <b>HE'S GOING TO HIS EXECUTION.</b> <b>SAYING DO I HAVE THE POLITICAL </b> <b>SKILL AND ABILITY TO DEAL WITH </b> <b>THE OCEAN OF DIFFICULTIES I'M </b> <b>GOING TO FACE?</b> <b>AND I'M RESTING MY NAME AND OUR </b> <b>COUNTRY'S NAME ON ME.</b> <b>AND HE SAID WHAT I CAN PROMISE </b> <b>IS INTEGRITY AND FIRMNESS.</b> <b>AND THIS IS A HUGE JOB.</b> <b>HUGE.</b> <b>>> I TRIED TO -- WHEN </b> <b>TEMPERAMENT GAME A BIG ISSUE, I </b> <b>WAS TRYING TO SEIZE OUT WHAT DO </b> <b>WE MEAN BY THAT?</b> <b>I WAS THINKING ABOUT THE ABILITY</b> <b>TO ADMIT A MISTAKE.</b> <b>I DON'T HAVE NUCLEAR CODES WHICH</b> <b>IS GOOD.</b> <b>BUT JOHN KENNEDY HAD TO DESCRIBE</b> <b>HOW THIS IS TAKING PLACE.</b> <b>YOU CAN'T JUST LET JOINT CHIEFS </b> <b>AND CIA COME IN AT YOU.</b> <b>IN 1962 -- </b> <b>>> 13 DAYS. </b> <b>>> EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE OF THE </b> <b>NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL IS THE</b> <b>DIRECT RESULT OF THE BAY OF </b> <b>PIGS.</b> <b>DISASTER, APRIL '61, SALVATION, </b> <b>OCTOBER, 1962.</b> <b>THE NIGHT THE CUBAN MISSILE </b> <b>CRISIS ENDED JACK KENNEDY SAID </b> <b>TO MRS. KENNEDY I GUESS THIS IS </b> <b>THE NIGHT I SHOULD GO TO THE </b> <b>THEATER BECAUSE IT WILL NEVER </b> <b>GET ANY BETTER THAN THIS.</b> <b>IT'S HEART BREAKING.</b> <b>BUT THAT WAS A LEVEL OF </b> <b>HUMILITY.</b> <b>ADMITTING A MISTAKE.</b> <b>ANOTHER, I BELIEF IS EMPATHY.</b> <b>WHEN IT'S YOUR POLITICAL </b> <b>OPPONENT ON THE HILL OR LEADER </b> <b>OVERSEAS.</b> <b>GEORGE HERBERT WALKER BUSH, ONE </b> <b>OF THE MOST EMPATHETIC MEN WHO </b> <b>EVER DREW BREATH, ONE OF THE </b> <b>REASONS THE COLD WAR ENDED </b> <b>PEACEABLY IS WHEN THE BERLIN </b> <b>WALL FELL, DESPITE WHAT GEORGE </b> <b>MITCHELL IN THE SENATE WANTED TO</b> <b>DO, GEORGE BUSH WAS NOT GOING TO</b> <b>GO TO BERLIN, AND AS HE PUT IT </b> <b>DANCE ON THE WALL.</b> <b>HE SAID I DIDN'T WANT TO STICK </b> <b>IT IN GORBACHEV'S EAR.</b> <b>I THINK HE MEANT EYE.</b> <b>HE KNEW IF AN AMERICAN PRESIDENT</b> <b>SHOWED UP AT THE DOOR STEP AND </b> <b>DECLARED VICTORY HE PLAYED A </b> <b>POLITICAL COST.</b> <b>WHEN HE HAD A COOKIE OR CANDY </b> <b>BAR, HE WOULD CUT IT IN HALF AND</b> <b>GIVE IT TO THE OTHER KID.</b> <b>THERE IS A DIRECT LINE. </b> <b>>> FOR SOME PEOPLE, EMPATHY IS </b> <b>INBORN.</b> <b>WHEN I THINK ABOUT LINCOLN AS A </b> <b>LITTLE KID WHEN OTHER KIDS WOULD</b> <b>BE PUTTING HOT COALS ON TURTLES </b> <b>AND LOVING TO SEE THEM JUMP </b> <b>AROUND, HE NOT ONLY COULDN'T </b> <b>BEAR IT, BUT HE WROTE AN ESSAY </b> <b>IN SCHOOL ABOUT WHY IT WAS </b> <b>WRONG.</b> <b>HE WAS FEELING EMPATHETIC </b> <b>TOWARDS A TURTLE, THEN, YOU </b> <b>THINK ABOUT THE GREAT SECOND </b> <b>INAUGURAL, THE IDEA IS EMPATHY, </b> <b>UNDERSTANDING NO MESSAGES HE'S </b> <b>HE DELIVERING DESPITE THE FACT </b> <b>THE WAR IS COMING TO AN END.</b> <b>HE KNOWS THE TASK IS TO BRING </b> <b>THE SOUTH BACK INTO THE UNION.</b> <b>REACHING OUT TO THE SOUTH AND </b> <b>TEDDY ROOSEVELT ONCE SAID </b> <b>WITHOUT FELLOW FEELINGS HE WENT </b> <b>TO THE SLUMS, WALKING AROUND AS </b> <b>A POLICE COMMISSIONER TO SEE </b> <b>WHAT IT WAS LIKE TO LIVE IN A </b> <b>SLUM.</b> <b>HE SAID IT BECOMES NATURAL AFTER</b> <b>HIS WIFE AND MOTHER DIED ON THE </b> <b>SAME DAY IN THE SAME HOUSE, HE </b> <b>LEARNED WHAT IT IS LIKE TO BE A </b> <b>COWBOY AND RANCHER AND SAID </b> <b>WITHOUT FELLOW FEELING A </b> <b>DEMOCRACY IS NOT GOING TO WORK </b> <b>AND PEOPLE SEEING OTHER THAT IS </b> <b>WHERE I FEAR WE'RE AT NOW.</b> <b>WHAT PREVENTED DEMOCRATS, </b> <b>PERHAPS, FROM UNDERSTANDING WHAT</b> <b>THE PEOPLE WHO VOTED FOR TRUMP </b> <b>WERE FEELING IS THAT THEY HADN'T</b> <b>HAD CONNECTION WAS PEOPLE WHO </b> <b>FELT LIKE WAS PASSING THEM BY.</b> <b>NOW, PEOPLE HAPPY ARE NOT </b> <b>FEELING THE SAME SENSE OF </b> <b>EMPATHY TOWARDS THE PEOPLE THAT </b> <b>LOST.</b> <b>THAT IS A WHAT WE HAVE TO FEEL.</b> <b>THERE WAS AN ARTICLE THE OTHER </b> <b>DAY IN A BOSTON MAGAZINE.</b> <b>I COME FROM NEW ENGLAND AND </b> <b>PROBABLY DO THINK OF MYSELF AS </b> <b>LIBERAL THAT SAID 28-1 ARE </b> <b>LIBERALS TO CONSERVATIVES IN </b> <b>COLLEGES AND SCHOOLS IN NEW </b> <b>ENGLAND AND THAT KIDS WHO ARE </b> <b>CONSERVATIVES IN SCHOOLS, THEY </b> <b>FEEL LIKE THEY HAVE TO STAY IN </b> <b>THE CLOSET AND NOT COME OUZ -- </b> <b>OUT.</b> <b>AND SOMETIMES, PROFESSORS ARE </b> <b>MAKING FUN OF TRUMP.</b> <b>IF IT STARTS AT THAT LEVEL, THEN</b> <b>WE CAN'T EXPECT LEADERSHIP TO DO</b> <b>IT AT THE TOP. </b> <b>>> SO, JOHN?</b> <b>>> 28 YEARS AGO YESTERDAY WHEN </b> <b>BUSH 41 OPENED WITH A PRAYER </b> <b>HE'D WRITTEN HIMSELF ON SOME </b> <b>CARDS.</b> <b>IT BASICALLY SAID HELP US, LORD.</b> <b>TO USE POWER TO HELP OURSELVES </b> <b>BUT ENABLE US TO USE POWER TO </b> <b>HELP PEOPLE.</b> <b>NOT TO MAKE A GREAT SHOW IN THE </b> <b>WORLD.</b> <b>THERE IS A LEVEL OF A KIND OF </b> <b>DECENCY THERE THAT WE'RE SEEING </b> <b>EXPRESSED THERE.</b> <b>WE CAN DO MORE, I THINK OF THE </b> <b>KINDER AND GENTLER RHETORIC.</b> <b>ONE OF THE THINGS PEOPLE TALK </b> <b>ABOUT HOW WASHINGTON IS OUT OF </b> <b>TOUCH.</b> <b>I THINK IT'S OPPOSITE PROBABLY.</b> <b>WASHINGTON IS TOO MUCH A MIRROR.</b> <b>IF WE CAN FIGURE OUT A WAY TO </b> <b>ANSWER WHAT ST. AUGUSTINE, YOU </b> <b>HAVEN'T HAD ST. AUGUSTINE THROWN</b> <b>AT YOU SATURDAY NIGHT IN A </b> <b>WHILE.</b> <b>I HOPE.</b> <b>BUT IT'S IN THE CITY OF GOD.</b> <b>HE SAYS A BEING UNITED BY THE </b> <b>COMMON OBJECTS OF THEIR LOVE.</b> <b>>> DO THEY HAVE TO BE RATIONAL?</b> <b>>> YES.</b> <b>UNITED BY COMMON OBJECTS OF </b> <b>THEIR LOVE.</b> <b>WE HAVE TO ASK WHAT DO WE LOVE </b> <b>IN COMMON?</b> <b>WE BELIEVE WHAT WE WANT.</b> <b>AND THE TRIUMPH OF OPINION OF </b> <b>FACT IS ONE OF THE MOST </b> <b>CORROSIVE THING. </b> <b>>> I WAS TALKING WITH A SENATOR,</b> <b>THEY FEEL THE SENATE IS A </b> <b>DYSFUNCTIONAL BODY.</b> <b>THE REASON IS THAT HE SAID WE </b> <b>ARGUE OVER THE SOLUTION WE DON'T</b> <b>AGREE WHAT THE PROBLEMS ARE. </b> <b>>> RIGHT. </b> <b>>> YOU'RE SAYING THAT IS A </b> <b>REFLECTION OF THE COUNTRY. </b> <b>>> WHAT MAKES THAT MORE </b> <b>TROUBLING, TOO, IF YOU LOOK AT </b> <b>THE CONGRESS MANY KNEW WHAT IT </b> <b>WAS LIKE TO HAVE TO GO ACROSS </b> <b>RACE AND LINES TO ACCOMPLISH </b> <b>SOMETHING TO ACCOMPLISH </b> <b>SOMETHING TOGETHER AS A GROUP.</b> <b>NOW, THAT LACK OF A COMMON </b> <b>MISSION IS SOMETHING THAT IS NOT</b> <b>IN WASHINGTON.</b> <b>MY SON, JOE, I PROBABLY TALKED </b> <b>ABOUT LAST TIME I WAS HERE.</b> <b>PROBABLY NOT.</b> <b>AFTER SEPTEMBER 11TH HE JUST </b> <b>GRADUATED FROM HARVARD IN </b> <b>HISTORY AND HE WAS IN BAGHDAD </b> <b>AND GOT A BRONZE STAR, SENT BACK</b> <b>TO AFGHANISTAN, CAME OUT, </b> <b>DELAYING GOING TO HARVARD LAW </b> <b>SCHOOL 10 YEARS SAYING HE WOULD </b> <b>NEVER CHANGE IT FOR ANYTHING.</b> <b>NOTHING MADE HIM PROUDER THAN </b> <b>BEING WITH 26 KIDS IN THAT </b> <b>PLATOON.</b> <b>HE'S VERY MUCH ARGUING FOR A </b> <b>SORT OF NATIONAL SERVICE SO </b> <b>YOUNG PEOPLE CAN EXPERIENCE THAT</b> <b>CONNECTION WITH ONE ANOTHER AND </b> <b>THAT SENSE OF A COMMON MISSION.</b> <b>>> THAT IS RIGHT.</b> <b>>> WHEN JOHN KERRY FIRST GAME </b> <b>THE CHAIRMAN OF THE FOREIGN </b> <b>RELATIONS COMMITTEE IN 10, OR 11</b> <b>IT WAS THE 40TH ANNIVERSARY OF </b> <b>THE FULLBRIGHT HEARINGS WHERE HE</b> <b>CAME TO NATIONAL PROMINENCE BY </b> <b>SAYING HOW DO YOU ASK A MAN WHO </b> <b>IS THE LAST MAN TO DIE FOR A </b> <b>MISTAKE?</b> <b>AND WE'RE AT A ROUGH MOMENT IN </b> <b>AFGHANISTAN.</b> <b>AND I WAS GOING TO WRITE A </b> <b>COLUMN TO HAVE A SET OF HEARINGS</b> <b>ABOUT AFGHANISTAN 10 YEARS ON.</b> <b>AND REALLY PUT A LOT INTO IT.</b> <b>MOST OF THE TIME WHEN YOU CALL A</b> <b>SENATOR AND SAY I THINK YOU </b> <b>SHOULD BE ON TV MORE, THEY'RE </b> <b>RECEPTIVE.</b> <b>JOHN SAID I DON'T THINK IT WOULD</b> <b>WORK.</b> <b>I SAID WHY.</b> <b>HE SAID BECAUSE WE'D SPEND TOO </b> <b>MUCH TIME ARGUING ABOUT THE </b> <b>BASIC, FACTUAL ASSUMPTIONS.</b> <b>>> WOW. </b> <b>>> AND I THOUGHT JESUS CHRIST.</b> <b>IF WE CAN'T HAVE A DEBATE ABOUT </b> <b>WHAT IS NOW OUR LONGEST WAR, </b> <b>INCLUDING THE REV SOLUTION, </b> <b>WHICH DORIS'S SON IS SERVING HOW</b> <b>CAN WE DEAL WITH PROJECTING </b> <b>FORCE IN A DEMOCRATIC AND </b> <b>LEGITIMATE WAY?</b> <b>DOES ANYONE IN THIS ROOM BELIEVE</b> <b>THAT IF THERE WERE A SELECTIVE </b> <b>SERVICE DRAFT WE'D BE IN THE </b> <b>WARS WE'RE INVOLVED IN TODAY?</b> <b>>> RIGHT.</b> <b>RIGHT. </b> <b>>> ONE MORE QUESTION TO YOU.</b> <b>IN THE DAYS AFTER THE ELECTION, </b> <b>I WAS TALKING WITH A GUY I </b> <b>BELIEVE WAS DISAPPOINTED IN THE </b> <b>RESULTS.</b> <b>AND THIS MANNING SAYING WE'D </b> <b>LIKE TO IMAGINE PROGRESS </b> <b>CONTINUES AND WE'RE MOVING </b> <b>FORWARD AND THAT WE'RE IMPROVING</b> <b>A LITTLE BIT.</b> <b>HE SAID SOMETIMES, MAN KIND GOES</b> <b>BACK.</b> <b>LEAPS BACK IN TIME.</b> <b>AND WE DO HAVE A MOMENT IN WHICH</b> <b>A PRESIDENT IS BEING RELEASED BY</b> <b>ANOTHER PRESIDENT WHOSE STARTING</b> <b>POINT FOR NEGOTIATION IS THAT I </b> <b>WANT TO UNDO EVERYTHING DONE.</b> <b>LET'S GO BACK EIGHT YEARS AND </b> <b>HAVE THOSE DEBATES.</b> <b>DO YOU THINK PROGRESS </b> <b>DISCONTINUE FORWARD?</b> <b>THAT MARTIN LUTHER KING IS RIGHT</b> <b>ABOUT THE ARC OF JUSTICE BEING </b> <b>LONG BUT MOVING TOWARDS JUSTICE,</b> <b>OR DO WE SOMETIMES TAKE A LEAP </b> <b>BACKWARD?</b> <b>INTO DARKNESS. </b> <b>>> I THINK IT'S GIVEN HIM A </b> <b>CERTAIN KIND OF STABILITY </b> <b>LEAVING THIS OFFICE.</b> <b>WHEN I INTERVIEWED HIM, THIS </b> <b>SUMMER, EVERYTHING LOOKED MORE </b> <b>POSITIVE IN A SENSE OF WHAT HIS </b> <b>LEGACY WAS GOING TO BE.</b> <b>HEALTH CARE WOULD BE THERE AND </b> <b>ONE IMAGINES SOME OF THE THINGS </b> <b>PUT FORWARD HE'D BE REMEMBERED </b> <b>FOR AND YET HE HASN'T LOST HIS </b> <b>SPIRIT.</b> <b>BECAUSE HE HAS THAT PHILOSOPHY, </b> <b>SOCIETY, PEOPLE, THEY SOMETIMES </b> <b>SXAG ZAG.</b> <b>THERE IS A MOVE IN AMERICA </b> <b>TOWARDS GREATER PROGRESS.</b> <b>LOOKING AT WHAT HAPPENED IN THE </b> <b>INNER CITIES IT LOOKED LIKE </b> <b>WE'RE BACK, WAY BACK, SO MUCH </b> <b>PROGRESS HAS BEEN MADE FOR </b> <b>AFRICAN AMERICANS IN THEIR LAST </b> <b>15 YEARS AND 20 YEARS AND 30 </b> <b>YEARS.</b> <b>THAT WE FORGET SOMETIMES.</b> <b>THAT IS PART OF THE ODDNESS OF </b> <b>THE ELECTION F LISTENING TO WHAT</b> <b>MR. TRUMP IS SAYING, THE PEOPLE </b> <b>LEFT BEHIND BY MANUFACTURING AND</b> <b>WHO FEEL THEY LOST THEIR SENSE </b> <b>OF SELF ESTEEM, THEY NEED </b> <b>SOMETHING DIFFERENT.</b> <b>THE COUNTRY IS BETTER NOW.</b> <b>YOU WOULD THINK IT HAD GONE WAY </b> <b>DOWN HILL BECAUSE OF THE WAY THE</b> <b>ELECTION WAS.</b> <b>WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT AMERICA, I </b> <b>THINK ABOUT THOSE DEBATES WITH </b> <b>STEVEN DOUGLAS.</b> <b>HE SAID HE THOUGHT DOUGLAS WAS </b> <b>TRYING TO MAKE US GO BACKWARD.</b> <b>HE SAID IF YOU'RE TRYING TO </b> <b>PERFECT THE UNION YOU'RE GOING </b> <b>TO BE AGHAST BETWEEN WHERE YOU </b> <b>WANTED TO BE F YOU KEEP MOVING </b> <b>TOWARD THAT, IF YOU SOMETIMES GO</b> <b>INTO A HORIZONTAL WAY, YOU'LL </b> <b>KEEP GOING THAT WAY.</b> <b>AND I GUESS I BELIEVE WHEN YOU </b> <b>LOOK AT HISTORY JUST HAVING BEEN</b> <b>A DODGER FAN AND RED SOX FAN FOR</b> <b>MANY YEARS I HAD TO BE AN </b> <b>OPTIMIST.</b> <b>IT'S A CHARACTER TRAIT.</b> <b>I SEE IT IN AMERICAN HISTORY AND</b> <b>CHARACTER. </b> <b>>> WHAT DO YOU THINK YANKEE </b> <b>FANS?</b> <b>>> I KNOW HOW TO LOOSE.</b> <b>I'M A SOUTHERNER AND CHRISTIAN.</b> <b>THE DUTY OF A CHRISTIAN IS NOT </b> <b>JUST TO SUCCEED BUT FAIL </b> <b>CHEERILY?</b> <b>THAT IS ME.</b> <b>THE QUESTION SR WE FALLING BACK </b> <b>NOW?</b> <b>AND CAN THERE WITH A FALL BACK?</b> <b>IT WAS SAID HISTORY TAKES NO </b> <b>LEAP EX -- HISTORY LIKE NATURE </b> <b>KNOWS NO LEAPS, WE DON'T GO </b> <b>VASTLY FORWARD IN ONE MOMENT. </b> <b>>> OF COURSE. </b> <b>>> WE GO BACKWARD.</b> <b>SO WE DO WHAT YOU DO FOR A </b> <b>LIVING YOU KNOW ALMOST ALL GREAT</b> <b>MOMENTS ARE CONTINGENT.</b> <b>AND JFK SAID DURING CUBAN </b> <b>MISSILE CRISIS, GOD KNOWS WHAT </b> <b>IS GOING TO HAPPEN.</b> <b>THERE IS ALWAYS A SON OF A -- </b> <b>THAT DOESN'T GET THE MEMO.</b> <b>IF ABRAHAM LINCOLN HADN'T BEEN </b> <b>WHERE HE WAS IN 61 WE WOULD HAVE</b> <b>HAD A DIFFERENT RESULT.</b> <b>IF LYNDON JOHNSON WASN'T WHERE </b> <b>HE WAS ON BLOODY SUNDAY, WE </b> <b>WOULD HAVE HAD A DIFFERENT </b> <b>RESULT.</b> <b>YOU NEEDED SOMEONE WHO TWO </b> <b>SIGNIFICANT FILL PLYINGS WERE </b> <b>ACTORS PROJECTING A REALITY OF </b> <b>THE WORLD WE COULDN'T SEE BUT </b> <b>WANTED TO.</b> <b>RONALD REAGAN AND JOHN PAUL II.</b> <b>THEY WERE ABLE TO HELP BRING </b> <b>COMMUNISM DOWN.</b> <b>>> YOU CAN ADD FDR TO THAT.</b> <b>HE THOUGHT HE WAS A GOOD OF AN </b> <b>ACTOR AS ORSON WELLS. </b> <b>>> AND HE WOULD LOOK APPROVINGLY</b> <b>AND SAY THAT WAS THE GARBO AT </b> <b>ME. </b> <b>>> WE DO THIS AT BAR MITZVAHS.</b> <b>IF YOU NEED US.</b> <b>WELLS ONCE SAID, SORRY.</b> <b>SO, YES.</b> <b>>> I WAS SUPPOSED TO KEEP HIM IN</b> <b>LINE. </b> <b>>> WAIT UNTIL WE GET TO FOUNDING</b> <b>FATHERS. </b> <b>>> I THINK THIS IS A -- </b> <b>>> THIS IS A QUESTION AND ANSWER</b> <b>SESSION. </b> <b>>> I THINK IT'S POSSIBLE TO FALL</b> <b>OFF WHAT FDR SAID, QUOTING AND </b> <b>SAID THE LINE OF CIVILIZATION </b> <b>MOVES FORWARD.</b> <b>I DO BELIEVE THAT.</b> <b>IT REQUIRES ME TO SAY DARKNESS </b> <b>IS ALWAYS NEARBY.</b> <b>THAT IS WHY WHAT YOU'RE DOING </b> <b>HERE, BY COMING TO LISTEN TO </b> <b>TALK IS SO IMPORTANT. </b> <b>>> COULD WE HAVE A MOMENT WHERE </b> <b>DIFFERENT GROUPS ARE PUSHING </b> <b>THEMSELVES FORWARD?</b> <b>MAKING THEMSELVES HEARD?</b> <b>FROM 2008, A DIFFERENT SET OF </b> <b>PEOPLE IN 2016.</b> <b>AND. </b> <b>>> WHAT IS INTERESTING ABOUT </b> <b>WATCHING MARCHES TODAY OF WOMEN </b> <b>NOT ONLY IN WASHINGTON BUT ALL </b> <b>OVER THE COUNTRY, WAS THAT IN </b> <b>CONTRAST TO THE PROTESTS THAT </b> <b>TOOK PLACE AT THE INAUGURATION </b> <b>YID, WHICH WAS RANDOM AND </b> <b>NOTHING THEY'RE MARCHING FOR AND</b> <b>IT WAS SAD, TODAY SEEMED TO ME </b> <b>WHATEVER YOU FEEL, IT'S VALUE </b> <b>VANNIZING PEOPLE TO FIGHT FOR </b> <b>THEIR RIGHTS NOW AND TO OPPOSE </b> <b>IN A REAL WAY, THEY'RE ARGUING </b> <b>SOME SIGNS WERE ANTITRUMP.</b> <b>AND I CARE ABOUT REPRODUCTIVE </b> <b>RIGHTS OR ABOUT PLANNED </b> <b>PARENTHOOD AND SO THEY'RE </b> <b>ARGUING FOR GOALS.</b> <b>THERE WAS A SUFFICIENT RAJETT </b> <b>PROTEST AT WOOD ROW WILSON'S </b> <b>INAUGURATION.</b> <b>SO IF WHAT HAPPENS, AND THIS IS </b> <b>WHAT IS INTERESTING, IS THAT </b> <b>OBAMA SAID HE'S GOING TO STAY </b> <b>OUT OF THINGS UNLESS CERTAIN </b> <b>THINGS HAPPENED.</b> <b>AND THERE ARE OTHER ONES.</b> <b>AND I THINK THAT IS TRUE FOR THE</b> <b>COUNTRY.</b> <b>YOU KNOW?</b> <b>WE HAVE TO GIVE TRUMP A CHANCE </b> <b>RIGHT NOW.</b> <b>WE HAVE TO HOPE THAT MOMENT WILL</b> <b>PIVOT.</b> <b>AND BE ABLE TO DEAL WITH THIS </b> <b>EXTRAORDINARY RESPONSIBILITY AND</b> <b>INSTEKTS WILL BE HELPED BY THE </b> <b>PEOPLE AROUND HIM.</b> <b>IF. </b> <b>>> ANDREW JACKSON ACCUSED HIS </b> <b>EEPTS OF BEING ELITIST AND OUT </b> <b>OF TOUCH AND IT WAS SORT OF </b> <b>TRUE.</b> <b>HIS OPPONENTS REALIZE THEY HAD </b> <b>NEEDED TO BE MORE DEMOCRATIC AND</b> <b>ORGANIZED AND JACKSON FOUND THE </b> <b>DEMOCRATIC PARTY AND OPPONENTS </b> <b>FOUNDED THE WIG PARTY.</b> <b>AND I THINK PEOPLE WHO HATED </b> <b>ANDREW JACKSON WOULD HAVE TO BE </b> <b>GRATEFUL TO HIM FOR. </b> <b>>> I MEAN PEOPLE HAVE LITTLE </b> <b>TIME TODAY BECAUSE OF HOW MUCH </b> <b>TIME, ESPECIALLY YOUNG PEOPLE </b> <b>ARE SPENDING ON FACEBOOK OR </b> <b>E-MAIL OR WHATEVER THEY'RE DOING</b> <b>THAT DOESN'T ALLOW THEM TO COME </b> <b>TOGETHER TO -- THEY DID GO FROM </b> <b>BERNIE SANDERS BUT THEN, I'M NOT</b> <b>SURE THOSE PEOPLE WHO ARE </b> <b>PROTESTING RIGHT AFTER TRUMP WON</b> <b>ACTUALLY DIDN'T VOTE SOME OF </b> <b>THEM.</b> <b>PEOPLE ARE SAYING HAVE YOU VOTED</b> <b>AND THEY DIDN'T.</b> <b>IF THIS GALVANIZES MORE PEOPLE </b> <b>IN A WAY, THAT IS A GOOD THING </b> <b>THAT COULD COME OUT OF IT. </b> <b>>> ONE QUICKLY BECAUSE OF WHERE </b> <b>WE ARE, JEFFERSON'S POINT IS MAN</b> <b>SHOULD BE A PARTICIPANTS IN THE </b> <b>POLITICS OF THE STATE AND </b> <b>NATIONS NOT JUST ELECTIONS BUT </b> <b>EVERY DAY. </b> <b>>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.</b> <b>SO WE'RE GOING TO TAKE A BREAK </b> <b>AND TAKE QUESTIONS.</b> <b>THANKS FOR JOINING US SO FAR.</b> <b>IT'S BEEN GREAT.</b> <b>REALLY APPRECIATE IT.</b> <b>>> RICHARD T.</b> <b>THINKING OF PRESIDENTS YOU </b> <b>PERSONALLY SPENT TIME WITH.</b> <b>THAT IS COOL.</b> <b>WE'RE ON STAGE WITH PEOPLE WHO </b> <b>PERSONALLY SPENT TIME WITH </b> <b>PRESIDENTS.</b> <b>DORIS CAN YOU NAME ONE </b> <b>CHARACTERISTIC DONALD TRUMP </b> <b>MIGHT SHARE WITH LBJ?</b> <b>>> COARSENESS.</b> <b>NO.</b> <b>LBJ HAD AN UNUSUAL WAY OF </b> <b>SPEAKING WHEN TALKING.</b> <b>IT'S NOT IN PUBLIC BUT PRIVATE.</b> <b>IT WAS ENTERTAINING AND </b> <b>SOMETIMES, WITH DONALD TRUMP </b> <b>IT'S INTERESTING. </b> <b>>> DEFINITELY INTERESTING. </b> <b>>> YES.</b> <b>NO.</b> <b>I MEAN, AND SHORT AND STRAIGHT </b> <b>FORWARD AND I DON'T KNOW WHETHER</b> <b>HE TELLS STORIES.</b> <b>THAT IS AN IMPORTANT PART, I </b> <b>THINK OF LEADERSHIP TO BE ABLE </b> <b>TO TELL STORIES AND LBJ LIKED TO</b> <b>ENGAGE IN HYPERBOLE.</b> <b>I REMEMBER, HE DIDN'T WANT TO </b> <b>SWIM, JUST WANTED TO TALK.</b> <b>SO THERE WERE RAFTS WITH </b> <b>FLOATING MEMO PADS.</b> <b>AND THAT DAY, THE PRESIDENT </b> <b>MENTIONED HE HAD A GREAT, GREAT </b> <b>GRAND FATHER WHO DIED AT THE </b> <b>BATTLE OF ALAMO.</b> <b>HE SAID HE DIDN'T HAVE A GREAT </b> <b>GRANDFATHER WHO DIED AT ALAMO.</b> <b>HE MUST HAVE WANTED TO.</b> <b>I SAID HOW CAN YOU DO THAT?</b> <b>HE SAID THESE JOURNALISTS ARE </b> <b>SUCH STICKLERS FOR DETAIL.</b> <b>HE TELLS ME HIS GREAT GREAT </b> <b>GRAND FATHER DIED AT THE BATTLE </b> <b>OF SAN JACINTO AND HOW THAT WAS </b> <b>MORE IMPORTANT IN THE ALAMO </b> <b>UNTIL I FOUND OUT THE GUY HADN'T</b> <b>DIE DIED THERE, EITHER. </b> <b>>> CAN YOU NAME A CHARACTERISTIC</b> <b>DONALD TRUMP GEORGE HW BUSH?</b> <b>>> JESUS.</b> <b>I KNEW THAT WAS COMING.</b> <b>>> HONESTLY, NO.</b> <b>I'M NOT TRYING TO BE CLEVER.</b> <b>I BELIEVE THE MOVEMENT IN 30 </b> <b>YEARS FROM GEORGE HERBERT WALKER</b> <b>BUSH TO DONALD TRUMP JUST PROVES</b> <b>DARLING.</b> <b>AND GEORGE BUSH PUT THE COUNTRY </b> <b>FIRST AS OFTEN AS HE COULD.</b> <b>HE WAS NOT PERFECT.</b> <b>HE SAID TO ME POLITICS IS NOT A </b> <b>PURE UNDERTAKING IF YOU WANT TO </b> <b>WIN.</b> <b>IT'S NOT.</b> <b>HE RAN A BRUTAL CAMPAIGN IN </b> <b>1988.</b> <b>IN WASHINGTON HE TRIED TO CREATE</b> <b>A CULTURE OF COMPROMISE.</b> <b>OPPOSING 1964 CIVIL RIGHTS ACT </b> <b>IN TEXAS, UNCOMFORTABLE REALITY </b> <b>TO TALK ABOUT NOW.</b> <b>IN 1968 WHEN ACTUALLY IN </b> <b>CONGRESS HE VOTED FOR FAIR </b> <b>HOUSING.</b> <b>TO ME, THE DRAMA OF GEORGE WAS, </b> <b>IS THAT HE DID ALMOST HE HAD TO </b> <b>DO TO ACHIEVE POWER BUT WHEN HE </b> <b>ACHIEVED POWER HE DID ALMOST HE </b> <b>COULD TO DO THE RIGHT THING N A </b> <b>POLITICAL LIFE I DON'T THINK </b> <b>THERE IS A MUCH WARMER WAY TO </b> <b>LOOK AT IT.</b> <b>HE'S NOT A PREACHER, A </b> <b>PHILOSOPHER.</b> <b>CONSISTENCY ISN'T THE TEST FOR </b> <b>HIM.</b> <b>TO ME, IT'S EFFECTIVENESS.</b> <b>IT'S KIND OF MORAL CLARITY WHEN </b> <b>THINGS ARE DARK.</b> <b>BUT NO.</b> <b>I DON'T SEE THAT.</b> <b>AND THEY COME FROM DIFFERENT </b> <b>WORLDS IN THAT DONALD TRUMP IS A</b> <b>PRODUCT AND WOULD NOT BE </b> <b>PRESIDENT IF IT WERE NOT FOR </b> <b>REALITY TELEVISION.</b> <b>GEORGE HW BUSH, YOU KNOW, HE </b> <b>LIKED DANA CARVY'S IMITATION OF </b> <b>HIM. </b> <b>>> DANA SAID IT WAS EASY, </b> <b>MR. ROGERS TRYING TO BE JOHN </b> <b>WAYNE.</b> <b>SO HERE -- HERE IS A DIFFERENCE </b> <b>TRUMP TWEETED TWICE FURIOUS </b> <b>ABOUT ALEC BALDWIN'S PORTRAYAL </b> <b>OF HIM IN SATURDAY NIGHT LIFE.</b> <b>WHEN HE LOST IN 1992, </b> <b>DEVASTATING PERSONAL LOSS.</b> <b>LISTENING TO AUDIO DIARY ENTRY </b> <b>IS TEAR PROVOKING.</b> <b>THE DEPTHS THAT IT PUT BUSH IN.</b> <b>HE FELT HE LET EVERYONE DOWNFUL </b> <b>HE WANTED TO LIFT STAFF SPIRITS.</b> <b>SO HE INVITED DANA CARVY TO </b> <b>SPEND THE NIGHT AT THE WHITE </b> <b>HOUSE AND PERFORM IN THE EAST </b> <b>ROOM. </b> <b>>> PERFORM GEORGE BUSH?</b> <b>>> YEAH.</b> <b>ONE GUY ATTACKING ALEC BALDWIN, </b> <b>THE OTHER GUY INVITED HIS ALEC </b> <b>BALDWIN TO COME TO THE WHITE </b> <b>HOUSE. </b> <b>>> DO YOU THINK THERE ARE </b> <b>SIMILARITIES BETWEEN TRUMP'S </b> <b>AMERICA FIRST APPROACH AND </b> <b>ISOLATIONISM AFTER WORLD WAR I?</b> <b>>> THERE IS A SIMILARITY OF </b> <b>LANGUAGE BECAUSE CHARLES </b> <b>LINDBERGH USE THAT HAD PHRASE, </b> <b>AMERICA FIRST. </b> <b>>> I THINK SO.</b> <b>BRIEFLY.</b> <b>THE ICE SOLATION. </b> <b>>> IT WAS A TARIFF PASSED. </b> <b>>> PEOPLE ARE WITH ME.</b> <b>OKAY?</b> <b>THEY DON'T THINK IT'S A </b> <b>COCKTAIL.</b> <b>>> EXACTLY.</b> <b>DOUBLE. </b> <b>>> RADIO GUYS.</b> <b>THEY TALK A LOT. </b> <b>>> THE NEUTRALITY ACTS WHICH FDR</b> <b>HAD TO FIGHT STARTING WITH WHO </b> <b>DESTROYED THE DEAL IN 40 AND </b> <b>THEN, 41 IS AL FOR PEACE.</b> <b>AND REMEMBER, PERSONAL OBSESSION</b> <b>OF MINE, WE DID NOT DECLARE WAR </b> <b>ON NAZI GERMANY ON THE 8TH OF </b> <b>DECEMBER, 1941. </b> <b>>> TRUE. </b> <b>>> WE WAITED UNTIL HITLER </b> <b>DECLARED WAR ON US ON THURSDAY, </b> <b>THE 11TH.</b> <b>AND WE DECLARED ON THE 12TH.</b> <b>ROOSEVELT WAS WORRIED THAT </b> <b>AMERICA FIRST WAS DEAD IN THE </b> <b>PACIFIC BUT NOT YET DEAD IN THE </b> <b>EUROPEAN WAR.</b> <b>SO THERE IS A FEAR THAT WEEK.</b> <b>OF COURSE FDR, CHURCH HILL CAME </b> <b>AND THEY HAD CHRISTMAS TOGETHER.</b> <b>>> I THINK THE WORRY SOME THING </b> <b>ABOUT THE RESEARCH OF </b> <b>NATIONALISM WHICH IS PART OF THE</b> <b>THING IS THAT PEOPLE ARE LOOKING</b> <b>AT THEIR OWN INTERESTS.</b> <b>WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN WITH </b> <b>ALLIANCES?</b> <b>WHAT CAME OUT OF WORLD WAR II </b> <b>AFTER EXPERIENCE ROOSEVELT HAD </b> <b>HAD TO FIGHT AGAINST THAT </b> <b>AMERICA FIRST.</b> <b>THE EXPERIENCE OF WORLD WAR I </b> <b>HAD BEEN TRAUMATIC AND A WAR </b> <b>FOUGHT AND NOBODY UNDERSTOOD </b> <b>WHAT IT HAD BEEN FOUGHT FOR.</b> <b>SO THERE WAS A REASON THEY FELT </b> <b>THAT.</b> <b>THINGS WERE HAPPENING EUROPE </b> <b>THAT HAD TO BE DEALT WITH.</b> <b>IF THERE WAS A WAR IT WAS WORLD </b> <b>WAR II.</b> <b>WE LOST YEARS OF PREPARATION.</b> <b>WHATS OUT IS THE UNITED NATIONS,</b> <b>NATO AND THAT IS WHAT MADE </b> <b>AMERICA THE WORLD LEADER WE </b> <b>BECAME.</b> <b>IF WE UNDO THOSE ALLIANCES </b> <b>AGAIN, I DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENS</b> <b>TO AMERICA'S LEADERSHIP IN THE </b> <b>WORLD. </b> <b>>> THAT IS NOT JUST </b> <b>ISOLATIONISM.</b> <b>AND THE PRESIDENT.</b> <b>THE PRESIDENT SAID AND PART OF </b> <b>THAT IS THE NATIONALISM DORIS IS</b> <b>TALKING ABOUT.</b> <b>WHAT LED TO SECOND WORLD WAR WAS</b> <b>THE CRASH AND PRESSURES HERE </b> <b>THAT WAS THE RISE OF NATIONALISM</b> <b>THAT EMPIRES BROKE UP.</b> <b>AFTER WORLD WAR I.</b> <b>AND THIS GOES BACK TO HISTORY </b> <b>DOESN'T REPEAT ITSELF, BUT DOES </b> <b>RHYME. </b> <b>>> THAT IS ONE OF THE GREAT </b> <b>COMMENTS I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT</b> <b>THEY MEAN. </b> <b>>> DON'T YOU THINK M TRUMP </b> <b>RESTRAINED BY THE SYSTEM?</b> <b>>> HASN'T HOPED SO FAR.</b> <b>THE GREAT HOPE IS THAT MAD </b> <b>SONNIN DOES IT.</b> <b>>> HE'S GOING TO GO OFF NOW.</b> <b>>> THAT IS THE HOPE.</b> <b>BUT YOU KNOW, SINCE TR, REALLY, </b> <b>LINCOLN, THERE IS LINE OF </b> <b>JACKSON AND LINCOLN, TR, FDR.</b> <b>PRESIDENCY HAS BECOME WHAT IS </b> <b>KENNEDY'S PHRASE, VITAL CENTER </b> <b>OF ACTION.</b> <b>IT'S THE CENTER OF OUR </b> <b>CONSCIOUSNESS.</b> <b>OF OUR CULTURE.</b> <b>IN A WAY.</b> <b>I HOPE ARTICLE 1, 2, 3 WILL DO </b> <b>WHAT THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO DO.</b> <b>BUT WE HAVE A SYSTEM IN </b> <b>WASHINGTON NOW WHERE THERE IS A </b> <b>LIVE DEBATE THAT YOU SHOULD </b> <b>LEAVE THE SUPREME COURT. </b> <b>>> BY FILIBUSTERING ANY NOMINEE.</b> <b>>> MY VIEW IS THAT IT'S BETTER </b> <b>BECAUSE WE HAVEN'T TALKED ABOUT </b> <b>THIS ENOUGH.</b> <b>THE FEDERAL JUDICIARY OF 1789.</b> <b>>> I HOPE YOU HAVE SLEEPING </b> <b>BAGS. </b> <b>>> I WONNEDER IF THAT FIRST </b> <b>QUESTIONER IS BACK FROM THE WAR.</b> <b>WE HAD 6, 7, 10, THEN NINE.</b> <b>MY POINT IS THAT IT'S A SYSTEM </b> <b>THAT IS ALREADY IN DEEP </b> <b>CORROSION.</b> <b>IT'S NOT FUNCTIONING EVEN BEFORE</b> <b>THIS GUY GOT TO TOWN. </b> <b>>> WHAT DO YOU THINK?</b> <b>>> I BY PART OF THE DIFFICULTY </b> <b>FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP IS THAT YOU </b> <b>CAN FIRE PEOPLE, YOU CAN GIVE </b> <b>VOICES TO PEOPLE WHO DO WELL.</b> <b>I THINK HE'S GOING TO COME UP </b> <b>AGAIN, ISN'T THERE A SAYING THEY</b> <b>SAID HE WAS A SAD MAN?</b> <b>AS A MILITARY LEADER HE CAN GIVE</b> <b>ORDERS?</b> <b>THAT IS NOT RIGHT?</b> <b>>> SHURM ONSAID FOR ICE. </b> <b>>> IT WASN'T TRUE.</b> <b>>> THERE IS SOME STORY THAT </b> <b>TRUMAN LOVES TO TELL HE'S GOING </b> <b>TO WE CAN SEE PEOPLE GOING AND </b> <b>ICEN HOWER SAYS TO TRUMAN, I WAS</b> <b>AFRAID I WOULD OUTSHINE YOU.</b> <b>AND TRUMAN SAID YOU DIDN'T COME </b> <b>BECAUSE I DIDN'T INVITE YOU. </b> <b>>> DO YOU THINK THERE HAS BEEN A</b> <b>PRESIDENT THAT BROUGHT </b> <b>DISRUPTION AND CHANGE OF </b> <b>DIRECTION LIKE MR. TREFRP?</b> <b>>> IF ARGUE, YOU'VE HAD </b> <b>OPPRESSION IN ALMOST AT ROCK </b> <b>ROCK BOTTOM AND THE IDEA HAD </b> <b>STIFLED HERBERT HOOVER WHO WAS A</b> <b>GOOD MAN, I THINK, HE DIDN'T </b> <b>BELIEVE THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT </b> <b>SHOULD AND COULD HAVE A ROLL SO </b> <b>IT WAS A REAP AND FDR CHANGED </b> <b>THE SYSTEM.</b> <b>MADE GOVERNMENT AN ACTIVE </b> <b>PLAYER, THEN, YOU CAN ARGUE </b> <b>REAGAN CAME IN ARGUING </b> <b>GOVERNMENT WAS THE PROBLEM NOT </b> <b>THE SOLUTION.</b> <b>SO IT MEANS A RANGE.</b> <b>THE RIN PARTY HAD BEEN THE PRO </b> <b>BUSINESS, POLITICAL BOSS PARTY.</b> <b>AND TEDDY SAW DANGERS WHERE </b> <b>MONOPOLYS WERE BEING BUILT UP BY</b> <b>LARGER COMPANIES AND SO WE </b> <b>CERTAINLY HAVE SEEN IT. </b> <b>>> WHAT ABOUT ANDREW JACKSON?</b> <b>WAS HE A DISRUPTER?</b> <b>>> WELL, YES.</b> <b>IT WAS ALMOST MORE IN STYLE THAN</b> <b>IN SUBSTANCE.</b> <b>THAT WE THROUGH HIM OFF.</b> <b>AS YOU KNOW.</b> <b>PEOPLE THINK HE CLEANED OUT THE </b> <b>BUREAUCRACY.</b> <b>HE DID IT WITH SKILL AND CARE.</b> <b>THE BANK WAS NOT LIKE A FEDERAL </b> <b>RESERVE.</b> <b>THE BANK OF THE UNITED STATES </b> <b>TOOK TAXPAYERS DEPOSITS AND KEPT</b> <b>MEMBERS ON RETAINER SO HE WASN'T</b> <b>TOO FAR OFF.</b> <b>I WOULD SAY 1801.</b> <b>JEFFERSON CALLED IT THE </b> <b>REVOLUTION OF 1800.</b> <b>IT WAS IN THE HOUSE.</b> <b>AND BURR HAD THE SAME NUMBER OF </b> <b>ELECTORAL VOTES.</b> <b>WHAT MILTON SAID HE'S SOMEONE </b> <b>NOT GOING TO TEAR EVERYTHING UP.</b> <b>AND THAT IS WHAT IS ABOUT THIS.</b> <b>IT'S LIKE "NEW YORK TIMES" NOT </b> <b>ALLOWED TO USE THE WORD </b> <b>UNPRECEDENTED ON THE GROUNDS OF </b> <b>EVERYTHING ULTIMATELY </b> <b>UNPRECEDENTED.</b> <b>WE DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH </b> <b>BOMBASTIC, ODDLY TEMPER MENTAL </b> <b>CHALLENGING VERNACULAR OF </b> <b>TRUMP'S CANDIDACY UNTIL </b> <b>YESTERDAY, THIS AFTERNOON, IS </b> <b>GOING TO ATTEMPT TO TRANSLATE </b> <b>INTO DELIBERATENESS. </b> <b>>> SOMEONE QUESTIONED HIM ABOUT </b> <b>THE FACT IN THE HEARINGS, HAD </b> <b>DISAGREED BUT THEY DID.</b> <b>HE TWEETED GREAT JOB, EVERYBODY.</b> <b>NOW, SO THERE MAY BE A </b> <b>DISTINCTION BETWEEN HIS </b> <b>UPSETMENT WHEN IT'S A PERSONAL </b> <b>ATTACK ON HIM, VERSES ATTACK ON </b> <b>HIS IDEAS WHICH MEANS WE MAY IN </b> <b>THE KNOW WHAT IDEAS HE REALLY </b> <b>HOLDS DEAR.</b> <b>THAT IS WHAT WE NEED TO FIND OUT</b> <b>TO SEE IF WE CAN MAKE THAT </b> <b>DISTINCTION.</b> <b>>> I HEARD PRESIDENT TRUMP PUT A</b> <b>BUST OF THEODORE ROOSEVELT PUT </b> <b>IN THE OVAL OFFICE.</b> <b>WHAT IS THE SIGNIFICANCE?</b> <b>>> I COULD SEE WHY. </b> <b>>> A MANLY MAN.</b> <b>A MAN WHO SPOKE IN SHORT, PUNCHY</b> <b>LANGUAGE THAT THE PEOPLE LOVED.</b> <b>HE CAME TO THE PRESIDENTSY IN A </b> <b>TIME WHEN THE MEDIA WAS RIPE FOR</b> <b>HIM.</b> <b>THAT IS WHAT IS INTERESTING.</b> <b>LINCOLN WAS LUCKY TO HAVE HIS </b> <b>SPEECHES REPRINTED IN FULL.</b> <b>TEDDY IS THE PERFECT CHARACTER, </b> <b>I MEAN, A CARTOON CHARACTER AND </b> <b>SAYS FUN THINGS.</b> <b>THE PEOPLE KNOW WHAT I'M SAYING.</b> <b>HE SAID SPEAK SOFTLY AND CARRY A</b> <b>BIG STICK.</b> <b>HE GAVE MAXWELL HOUSE THE SLOGAN</b> <b>"GOOD TO THE VERY LAST DROP".</b> <b>HE WAS A FIGHTER AND FOUGHT THE </b> <b>ESTABLISHMENT.</b> <b>ONE OF TRUMP'S ADVISOR S WAS </b> <b>LIKENING THIS SITUATION TO THE </b> <b>SITUATION OF 20TH CENTURY.</b> <b>SO HE WAS SAYING IT'S GOING TO </b> <b>TAKE A WHILE TO GET THE ECONOMY </b> <b>MOVING INTO THAT DIRECTION.</b> <b>THEY'D BE INTERESTING CHARACTERS</b> <b>EXCEPT TEDDY WAS ABLE TO CHANNEL</b> <b>THAT ENERGY INTO MODERATE AND </b> <b>RATIONAL ACTION.</b> <b>THE THINGS HE DID, THE </b> <b>REPUBLICAN PARTY WAS ABLE TO </b> <b>PUSH THEM ALONG.</b> <b>THAT IS HOW HE HAD A GREAT </b> <b>RELATIONSHIP FROM THE PRESS.</b> <b>THEY WERE NECESSARY TO SHOW </b> <b>CONDITIONS SO PEOPLE WOULD </b> <b>UNDERSTAND WHY THINGS HAD TO </b> <b>CHANGE.</b> <b>>> HE WANTED PEOPLE TO </b> <b>INVESTIGATE YOU AND AGENCIES </b> <b>UNDER HIS CONTROL?</b> <b>>> ABSOLUTELY.</b> <b>>> IF YOU FIND SOMETHING </b> <b>TRUTHFUL ARE YOU CONCERNED ON </b> <b>THE PRESS OR ACCESS MIGHT BE </b> <b>SHUT DOWN?</b> <b>>> EVERYONE HERE IS A MEMBER OF </b> <b>THE MEDIA.</b> <b>IF YOU HAVE A SOCIAL MEDIA </b> <b>ACCOUNT YOU HAVE CAPACITY TO </b> <b>SPEAK TO THE WORLD.</b> <b>IF WHAT YOU HAS TO SAY DRAW AS </b> <b>TENSION, IT COULD REACH AS MANY </b> <b>PEOPLE AS WALTER CRONKITE.</b> <b>AND TO SOME EXTENT, 20TH CENTURY</b> <b>AS VIEW OF THE PRESS AS A </b> <b>NEUTRAL SEEMING ORGAN IS A </b> <b>PRODUCT OF THE ERA.</b> <b>IN ONE REASON, 40 PAPERS HAD </b> <b>OTHER POSSIBLE PARTY </b> <b>AFFILIATION.</b> <b>IF HE HAD A BUSINESS MODEL THAT </b> <b>BECAME MORE CENTRAL.</b> <b>I THINK SO CALLED PRESS </b> <b>CONFERENCES STARTED BACK AT </b> <b>MARAHGO AND TWO WEEKS AGO, I </b> <b>GUESS HAD MORE IN COMMON WITH </b> <b>INFOMERCIALS.</b> <b>SUPPORTERS WERE CLAPPING.</b> <b>THAT IS OUTSIDE OF THE BOUNDS IT</b> <b>SEEMS WHAT PRESIDENTS SHOULD DO.</b> <b>>> PRESIDENTS NEED PRESS </b> <b>CONFERENCES TO KEEP THEM HONEST </b> <b>WITH THEMSELVES.</b> <b>AND THE PRESS IS ASKING </b> <b>QUESTIONS AND TEDDY IS BUMPING </b> <b>AROUND.</b> <b>HE UNDERSTOOD THAT, HE SAID </b> <b>THEY'RE GOING TO CRITICIZE HIM </b> <b>AND THERE ARE CHANNELS AND HE </b> <b>SAID HE PLACED HIMSELF IN THE </b> <b>MIDDLE OF EVERY ACTION IN EVERY </b> <b>BATTLE OF THE WAR AND SHOULD </b> <b>HAVE CALLED IT ALONE IN CUBA.</b> <b>THIS IS A FAMOUS JOURNALIST.</b> <b>HE WRITES THEM A LETTER AND SAYS</b> <b>I REGRET TO TELL YOU MY WIFE AND</b> <b>CHILDREN ADORED YOUR TITLE FOR </b> <b>MY BOOK.</b> <b>NOW, YOU OWE ME SOMETHING.</b> <b>COME VISIT ME.</b> <b>I HAVE WANTED TO ME YOU.</b> <b>YOU HAVE TO REALIZE YOU NEED </b> <b>THEM, THEY NEED YOU.</b> <b>>> IN 1992, PAT BUCHANAN GETTING</b> <b>40% OF THE VOTE IN NEW </b> <b>HAMPSHIRE.</b> <b>WE FORGET THIS.</b> <b>RUSH LIMBAUGH WAS KILLING BUSH.</b> <b>LIMBAUGH HAD GONE NATIONAL IN </b> <b>88.</b> <b>REALLY BIG BY 92.</b> <b>BUSH AND ROGER ALES TO BROKER A </b> <b>MEETING.</b> <b>HE CARRIES LIND BAU'S BAG </b> <b>UPSTAIRS TO THE LINCOLN BEDROOM.</b> <b>AND SPENDS THE EVENING WITH HIM.</b> <b>AND. </b> <b>>> YOU MADE A GAFFE.</b> <b>YOU'RE IN THE LINCOLN BEDROOM </b> <b>AND HE SPENDS THE EVENING WITH </b> <b>HIM?</b> <b>>> DORIS?</b> <b>YOU ARE A NEW ENGLAND LIBERAL.</b> <b>I AM A POOR BOY FROM TEXAS.</b> <b>I AM MORE OPEN MINDED THAN YOU.</b> <b>[ LAUGHTER "AS OUR FRIEND TIM </b> <b>RUSSERT USED TO SAY WHAT A </b> <b>COUNTRY." </b> <b>>> USA.</b> <b>DID WE HAVE A CONVERSATION?</b> <b>I CAN'T REMEMBER WHAT IT WAS.</b> <b>ARE YOU MAKING A POINT?</b> <b>>> OH.</b> <b>OH.</b> <b>ANOTHER POINT.</b> <b>YES.</b> <b>AS SOMEONE WHO SLEEPS WITH A </b> <b>SPEECH WRITER. </b> <b>>> YOU STARTED IT.</b> <b>BILL SAPPHIRE USED TO SAY THE </b> <b>STATE OF THE UNION IS IMPORTANT </b> <b>BECAUSE IT'S THE ONLY WAY TO GET</b> <b>FEDERAL AGENCIES TO DECIDE </b> <b>ANYTHING. </b> <b>>> IT'S TRUE. </b> <b>>> THE PRESIDENT HAD TO HAVE </b> <b>SOMETHING TO ANNOUNCE.</b> <b>SO THE SPEECH FORCED </b> <b>BUREAUCRATIC CLARITY.</b> <b>>> RIGHT.</b> <b>>> THIS IS EXCITING.</b> <b>>> I'M DOING DOLLY AND JAMES </b> <b>MADISON. </b> <b>>> IS THAT GREAT?</b> <b>>> WHAT I WANT TO DO IS MADISON </b> <b>HAS BEEN LITERALLY AND </b> <b>FIGURATIVELY OVERSHADOWED.</b> <b>HE'S A LITTLE GUY.</b> <b>ABOUT 54 AS YOU KNOW FROM ORANGE</b> <b>COUNTY.</b> <b>AND LOST BETWEEN WASHINGTON AND </b> <b>HAMILTON AND JEFFERSON.</b> <b>ALL HAVE BEEN REDISCOVERED AND </b> <b>CELEBRATED RIGHTLY.</b> <b>BASICALLY DROVE OPPOSITION PARTY</b> <b>OUT OF BUSINESS.</b> <b>AND SO I WANT TO TRY TO FIGURE </b> <b>OUT WHAT KIND OF A POLITICIAN.</b> <b>HOW DID HE PROJECT ENOUGH SENSE </b> <b>OF CONFIDENCE AND AUTHORITY TO </b> <b>BE PART OF THAT VIRGINIA </b> <b>DYNASTY?</b> <b>AND TO SHAPE, ONE WAR, HE VERY </b> <b>MUCH WANTED THE WAR OF 1812 TO </b> <b>BE A WAR THE REPUBLIC WOULD BE </b> <b>PROUD OF.</b> <b>AND IN DOLLARS, JUST AMAZING </b> <b>FUN.</b> <b>I'M IN HOFF WITH HER. </b> <b>>> IT'S SAID IN PRESIDENTIAL </b> <b>ELECTIONS THAT THE TALLER </b> <b>CANDIDATE TENDS TO WIN.</b> <b>DID HE RUN AGAINST SOMEONE 52?</b> <b>>> NO.</b> <b>THAT IS TYPICAL NPR </b> <b>SENSATIONALISM.</b> <b>>> SO THAT IS WHAT WE'RE KNOWN </b> <b>FOR?</b> <b>>> I KNOW IT. </b> <b>>> GO, GET THE CLICKS.</b> <b>>> I THOUGHT IT WAS "INSIDE </b> <b>EDITION".</b> <b>>> WARNING. </b> <b>>> I SAID WHAT I'M WORKING ON, </b> <b>MAINLY CHAPPED IS THAT AFTER </b> <b>HAVING DONE LYNDON JOHNSON AND </b> <b>KENNEDYS AND FDR AND TAFT, IT'S </b> <b>HARD TO FIGURE OUT WHERE I GO </b> <b>AFTER THAT.</b> <b>I CAN'T GO BACK TO FILLMORE AND </b> <b>IT TAKES ME LONGER TO WRITE THE </b> <b>BOOK ABOUT WORLD WAR II THAN THE</b> <b>WAR TO BE FOUGHTMENT I'M NOT </b> <b>SURE I CAN DO SOMETHING LIKE </b> <b>GEORGE WASHINGTON OR WAY BACK </b> <b>THERE.</b> <b>SO, INSTEAD.</b> <b>WHAT I DECIDED TO DO IS BRING MY</b> <b>FOUR GUYS TOGETHER.</b> <b>I PROMISED IT WOULD BE 350 </b> <b>PAGES.</b> <b>I FEEL LIKE IT'S EXCITING </b> <b>BECAUSE I WAS A ONCE UPON A TIME</b> <b>ACADEMIC AND I DID ANALYZE </b> <b>THINGS AND I LOVED POLITICAL </b> <b>SCIENCE AND SO PART OF IT IS ARE</b> <b>TRAITS INHERITED OR DEVELOPED?</b> <b>I'M TAKING EACH GUIDE WHEN THEY </b> <b>FIRST RUN FOR OFFICE AND TRYING </b> <b>TO LOOK AT THEM SO THEY CAN SEE </b> <b>CONFUSION AND FEAR AND WE CAN </b> <b>IDENTIFY WITH HEM IN A WAY IT'S </b> <b>HARD TO IDENTIFY ONCE BECOMING </b> <b>PRESIDENT.</b> <b>AND THEY ALL WENT THROUGH </b> <b>SOMETHING THAT CHANGED THEM.</b> <b>AND FDR HAD POLIO AND LYNDON </b> <b>JOHNSON, SOUNDS LIKE IT'S NOT </b> <b>SIMILAR BUT LOST AN ELECTION FOR</b> <b>HIM, SEEMED LIKE THE END OF HIS </b> <b>LIFE.</b> <b>THEY COME THROUGH IT WITH A </b> <b>SENSE OF PURPOSE AND AMBITION IS</b> <b>DOUBLED.</b> <b>WHEN YOU GET POWER, WHAT DO YOU </b> <b>DO WITH IT?</b> <b>DOES THE MAN MAKE THE TIMES OR </b> <b>TIME MAKE THE FAN?</b> <b>WE'VE BEEN LUCKY RIGHT PEOPLE </b> <b>SEEM TO BE IN THE RIGHT PLACE AT</b> <b>THE MOST-IMPORTANT TIME.</b> <b>AND LATER, WORLD WAR II.</b> <b>IT'S FUN.</b> <b>I PROMISE IT WILL BE DONE BY THE</b> <b>END OF THE YEAR.</b> <b>IF YOU DON'T SEE ME FOR A WHILE,</b> <b>IT WILL BE HAPPENING. </b> <b>>> JOHN I'M GOING TO GIVE YOU </b> <b>THE LAST WORD.</b> <b>IS IT TIME LIKE THIS IN THE NEWS</b> <b>A GOOD TIME TO WRITE ABOUT THE </b> <b>PAST?</b> <b>HE I THINK SO.</b> <b>THE FUTURE IS UNKNOWABLE.</b> <b>BUT THE PAST SHOULD GIVE HOPE.</b> <b>OUR STORY IS OBSTACLES OVERCOME.</b> <b>WE SHOULDN'T LOOK UP FROM </b> <b>FIGURES OF THE PAST ADORINGLY OR</b> <b>LOOK DOWN AND FEEL SUPERIOR TO </b> <b>THEM BUT LOOK THEM IN THE EYE.</b> <b>TAKE THEM FOR WHAT THEY WERE.</b> <b>AND THEN BY HUMANIZING THEM WE </b> <b>DON'T PUT THEM ON PEDESTALS.</b> <b>WE'RE ABLE TO LEARN MORE FROM </b> <b>THEM.</b> <b>IF THEY'RE AS DRIVEN BY APPETITE</b> <b>AND SIN, AS WE ARE, AND YET, </b> <b>LEFT THE COUNTRY A LITTLE BETTER</b> <b>THEN THE REST IS GONE, TOO. </b> <b>>> THANK DORIS AND JOHN.</b> <b>>> THIS WAS GREAT.</b> <b>REALLY FUN. </b> <b>>> WOW.</b> <b>>> THIS BROADCAST OF THE </b>
Info
Channel: The Richmond Forum
Views: 47,513
Rating: 4.7274938 out of 5
Keywords: doris kearns goodwin, jon meacham, steve inskeep, donald trump, inauguration, live event, lecture series, rva, richmond, virginia, presidents, presidential history, history
Id: kiW6ejyMuXc
Channel Id: undefined
Length: 86min 50sec (5210 seconds)
Published: Wed Feb 01 2017
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