We’re here at Wharton Business School,
the first business school in the United States - University founded by Benjamin Franklin. As a mystic and as a guru, what do you think about business... capitalism, business, entrepreneurialism? Sadhguru: The success of a nation, unfortunately, lot of people understand
as success of its military or its politics. But essentially, the success of a business is rooted…
success of a nation is rooted in its business. How successful the businesses are,
that’s how successful a nation is. This is something that’s been lost in various
philosophies that have taken over the world. But forever, this has been the truth, that whichever nation had successful businesses,
those nations always succeeded. So (Laughs), and there is no substitute for success. Interviewer: So in today’s world, where do you see society, the world pressures pushing businesses, both in ways that are incredibly
powerful and constructive, but also in ways that are perhaps destructive? Sadhguru: I keep hearing this that
in today’s world there is so much pressure. I feel today’s world is lot more easier than ever before. At least nobody is threatening your life every moment,
as it used to be (Laughs) in the past. It is just that in today’s world, probably – for variety of reasons –
human beings are physically at their weakest. Never before human generations have been as
physically weak as we are today, because the technology does everything for us and we are not using our bodies as we
would have used it hundred, two-hundred years ago, which in turn is telling upon the fragility of our minds too and nothing is being done about
the inner strength of a human being. Constantly, our entire education process is
focused on how to fix the outside world - nothing much at all being done about how
to prepare this one (Referring to oneself) for the world. We are trying to prepare the world for this one
(Referring to oneself). No, we need to prepare this one (Referring to oneself)
for the world. Education systems have not focused on this at all. Interviewer: And I know folks might have thought of you, if they hadn't seen that video, as philosophizing guru (Sadhguru laughs). But I know you as an action-oriented leader. Tell me about your leadership style and the approach that you’ve taken and some of the things that your organizations
have been able to accomplish that one would have never thought
were possible without leadership. Sadhguru: (Laughs) When you ask about
leadership style, it reminds me – a few years ago, I was doing a program, a two-day event, for
top twenty-five executives of Microsoft India. And I had a few volunteers around me. As usual, even now, everything
is being done (Laughs) by the volunteers. And our volunteers are always on full buzz (Laughs). So, they noticed how the volunteers are going
about doing things, without anybody managing them. So after some time, they asked me, “Sadhguru,
where do you get such people?” You know, they are always looking for attrition (Laughs). I said, “You don’t get such people,
you got to make them.” They asked, “How do you make them?” I said, “You got to make them fall in love with you.” “How do you do that?” I said, “First, you got to fall in love with them.” They said, “Oh, they don’t pay us for that” (Few laugh). So, that’s the fundamental impediment for most people
– what are they paid for, what are they not paid for. You’re not paid to live anyway. Nobody paid you to live this many years. So, if somebody doesn’t pay you,
why don’t you fall dead, hmm (Laughs)? So, essentially, it’s this – if people
have to stand up and do something for you, you have to make them fall in love with you. If they have to fall in love with you,
you have to be in a certain way, which is not something that you do only
when people are looking at you, it's something that you become in every way. If you become like that, then you will see
everything around you cooperates – not just the people, the entire world cooperates - the five elements around you will cooperate, everything will happen that way. In terms of impediments or in terms of… at every step, people always think
“This is not possible, that is not possible.” People fear that this may happen, that may not happen. When we launch major projects… when I (Laughs)…
when I said… You know for example, they were showing the
Green Hands project. When I… When I just noticed in Tamil Nadu, which is
the southernmost state in India, and you know, lot of rivers were going dry
and the forests were being cleared, a United Nations organization, one of the
branches of that, came and made a prediction, “By 2025, sixty percent of
Tamil Nadu will become a desert.” I don’t like predictions because predictions
are based on the cold facts of today, but they never take into account
what’s beating in a human heart. But things happen because of
what’s beating in human hearts right now, not because of the cold facts of yesterday. So, when I saw this, I just said,
“We can reverse this. What’s the problem?” Then we made a simple barefoot calculation and I said, “If we plant hundred-and-fourteen-million
trees in eight to ten years, in about fifteen to twenty years we’ll have
thirty-three percent green cover in the state.” And I said, “Let’s do this.” People thought I was crazy. So our people said, “Sadhguru, how is this possible? Hundred-and-fourteen million trees –
do you know what it… what that is? Where are we going to plant it? How are we
going to plant it? Who is going to plant it” (Laughs)? I said, “See, what’s your population?” The population of the state
at that time was sixty-two million. I said, “If all of us plant one tree today, take care of it for two years and plant one more, you got the number.” It is just that we never think in these terms,
we always think what is possible, what is not possible. What is possible and what is not possible
is not our business, that’s nature’s business. Our business is to see what is it that we
want to do, what is the result we want? Possible, not possible – times and nature
will decide, not for you and me to decide. Interviewer: For young leaders that you’ve seen,
where have been the susceptibilities, the vulnerabilities, that over time they can work their way through, maybe giving them a little bit of guidance now that can help? Sadhguru: I think the biggest problem with
the so-called leaders of the day is, we're not really producing leaders,
we’re just producing managers and supervisors. They come out as leaders and they suffer
every moment of their life, this is what I’m seeing, because leadership doesn’t come
because of your ambition. Leadership happens…. See, let’s understand this, ambition means
you’re tweaking up your desire, which is waste of time, because your desires are based on what’s happening
around you or what has happened till now. An exaggerated version of
what’s around you is your desire. You can’t desire something that you’ve not seen. You only desire something that you have seen,
mildly exaggerated or overly exaggerated, it depends (Laughs) who you are. But leadership is about being able to take
a group of people, or a nation, or the entire world, in a direction and to a destination
that they have not imagined possible. If it’s something that they could imagine,
they don’t need you. They need a leader because he should be capable of taking them to a place
where they themselves cannot imagine possible. For this, a leader needs a profound sense of insight. When I say insight, that you’re able to
see something that other people cannot see. It’s like when you say a leader,
in some way you’re sitting on a perch. If you sit on a perch and don’t see any better than others,
you will become an object of ridicule (Laughs). When you sit up there,
you must be able to see better than others. Only if you’re seeing better than others,
you’re a natural leader, otherwise you’re a forced leader. When you're a forced leader,
everybody suffers you and you suffer them in turn, and it’s an endless process of misery (Laughs). So, the fundamental thing that’s missing is insight. When I say insight, people are interested in doing things,
but they’re not interested in working upon themselves. If you believe that what you’re doing is important, the most important thing in your life is to work upon yourself, to enhance your perception skills, to be able to see what others cannot see,
you have an insight into what you wish to do. It is not even a question of “What do I wish to do?” It is a question of what is most needed right now, because if you do what’s needed,
only then it’s leadership. If I do something that’s fanciful to me,
then there’ll (Laughs) be nobody behind because this is all about me. I think this is what is missing. There is no vision of what is needed. Everybody has petty ambitions. I say petty because after all, what they want?
They want a piece of the planet. Some people want a big chunk,
some people want a small chunk. Their size of what they can bite keeps increasing,
but still it’s a petty ambition because it’s just an exaggeration
of what you have already seen. All desires come from what you already know,
a small exaggeration of that. So, young leaders, the most important thing is that
you don’t tweak your desire in the name of ambition. You tweak your competence. If you keep on tweaking your competence,
depending upon the times in which we live, opportunities that come up in front of us,
naturally you will fall into the rhythm of what is there. If you have an enormous competence, then
I don’t think the world can put you down (Laughs). Interviewer: And for so many… – this hump that you’re trying to get over
when you’re young, to survive and ultimately thrive. And it feels often like some get over the hum
and make it – however “make it” is defined – and some fall below the hump and go… Sadhguru: Where is the hump?
I never saw the hump (Few laugh). Interviewer: In a world that everyone is pushing so hard, how do you strike that balance of trying
to employ these practices and perspectives, and you’re not… and still push over the hump? Sadhguru: You’re not giving up on the hump, hmm (Laughs)? Interviewer: Well, maybe that’s the point,
is there should be no hump (Sadhguru laughs). Sadhguru: As I said, the reason
why people feel there is a hump ahead of them or some kind of an obstacle ahead of them is, they are tweaking their desires,
they’re not tweaking their competence. If you tweak your competence, there’ll be no hump. You tweaked up your desire and
it looks like a hump that you have to cross. What is the point tweaking your desire? A desire only orients you in a direction,
it never gets you there. It cannot get you there. It’s only your competence which gets you there. But a desire can orient you in a particular direction. If you tweak that up, it will rise like a mountain
in front of you that you can’t cross over. It’s completely an unnecessary
psychological circus that people are doing. Interviewer: Maybe put that in perspective
– in India, in South India, the children you work with, the people you work with, what their lives are about
and how they gain contentment – maybe put that in perspective for all of us here,
who are lucky enough to have different situations. Sadhguru: About South India –
I didn’t get that, I’m sorry. Interviewer: When you’re working with the
people of South India… …the children, Sadhguru: Mhmm (Indicating agreement). Interviewer: the families who have very little, but they can still achieve the contentment and satisfaction. Sadhguru: Oh! See, contentment is the aspiration of a joyless human being. When you bec… When you make yourself incapable of joy, then you seek contentment and satisfaction and these kind of things. When you’re joyful, these things mean nothing to you.
Isn’t it so? On a day when you’re joyful, are you seeking
contentment on that day? Only when you’re miserable,
you’re looking for contentment (Laughter), because contentment is containment. Contentment means, “Okay, I’ve made it.” From what basis are you coming to this? Maybe you’re one step ahead of somebody else. I’m saying, why are we even bothered about being
one step ahead of somebody else or one step behind? Because if you look at life this way, how to be ahead of somebody, if you have lame by your side, one step ahead of them, you think you’re doing great. Life is not about being ahead of somebody,
life is about finding full expression to who we are. Everything that I am should find expression. I am little better than somebody – what does it mean? It means nothing. So, most people who seek contentment are always
hoping that everybody will be one step behind them. Or in other words, you start enjoying what others don’t have or you start enjoying a lesser man’s failings, which is… I call that sickness, I don’t call it contentment. But unfortunately, a whole lot of people
are seeking that. People are beginning to enjoy
what others do not have, not what they have. They enjoy what somebody doesn’t have, which is a very sick world, which has caused enormous damage to this world, both as a humanity and ecologically
(Laughs), it’s a serious cost, everybody trying to be
one step ahead of somebody else. I think India is still for… rapidly moving out of that place and becoming more West than West, okay (Laughs), rapidly moving out. But still, a large percentage of the population is… I think it is a remnant of the cultural past,
that naturally methods were… there were so many methods woven into our lifestyle, which made people naturally peaceful
and joyful by their own nature. So instead of seeking contentment or as it’s
written in the Constitution of this country, “In pursuit of your happiness” – happiness cannot be pursued
because it’s not hanging out somewhere. It is something that may happen within you
if you create a conducive atmosphere for yourself. Nobody experienced happiness out there,
or nobody experienced misery out there. Joy or misery happens within us. Pain and pleasure happens within us. Even light and darkness is happening within us. Everything that you ever know happens only within you. Even right now, you sit there and you think you’re looking at me, but actually light is falling upon me, reflecting, inverted image in the retina and da, da, da,
you know the whole story (Few laugh), all right? So what you see is within you,
what you hear is within you, whatever has ever happened to you
has happened only within you. So, if you’re joyful by your own nature,
your life will become an expression of joy. Then everything happens in a certain way. Then you will not look for contentment or satisfaction. By the time you satisfy all these human beings, I think the entire solar system will be finished,
not just the planet, because (Laughs) the living… Living Earth Statistics tells us today,
that if we have to provide for the entire 7.3 billion population on the planet,
what an average American person has, it takes four-and-a-half planets. But there aren’t any four-and-a-half,
only half we have (Laughs) - half a planet is what we have,
there is no four-and-a-half planets. So this entire thing about more, the entire modern business has become
about more and more, but there is no more. So I think the future leaders should
look at how to maximize what is there, not about more, because there is no more. There was a time when people thought
there is more somewhere. You could go to another continent
and get what you want, you could go to another place and get what you want. Now we’ve been everywhere
and we know there is no more. Leadership… True leadership of the future is about
maximizing what is there. There is no more. Interviewer: And the things that… has entered all of our society is the ability for these seven billion people to communicate, to interact, to see other parts of the world through that little thing
(Sadhguru laughs) called the iPhone. Tell me what’s… Sadhguru: We use Samsung, hmm (Laughter). Interviewer: Samsung (Sadhguru laughs). I do… I do worry that we’re all living our lives
through our iPhones and our Samsung Galaxies, as opposed to more fundamentally. What’s some of your observations on what technology both has brought us and what we need to guard against? Sadhguru: See, technology is a wonderful thing,
but it’s a mindless thing. It depends in whose hands it is right now. Either we can use technology to make our lives
or to destroy our lives. So, we should know this – we made the technology
and we should also learn how to use it. The reason why technology is running away with people
– people are not running away with technology, technology is running away with people – because, as I said earlier, our education systems have nothing in it. Right from kindergarten to whatever level you study, there is nothing about the making of this being
(Referring to oneself). It’s all about fixing the world. So, because of that, our children are getting
totally outwardly focused. There is no sense of anything about this
(Referring to oneself). As you said, twenty-five to fifty, when they start getting older and you know, when their joints creak and they know they are mortal (Laughs), that is when they’re coming to little bit of sense. But I think sense would be very useful
early in our life, not later (Laughs). What do you think? We could do well with sense when we’re young (Laughs). Right now, we’ve come to a conclusion –
youth means stupid, old age means wisdom. No, youth must become wise, then only
there is a future for this world (Laughs). Interviewer: And what are some of the
things that youth can do to look inside, to understand this one
(Referring to oneself)? Sadhguru: See, when we say turn inward, in the Western context, people always think in terms of contemplation. Contemplation is not inward, it is just,
you know… it’s an intellectual circus because you contemplate only what you already have. Whatever thought process we have is only coming
from a limited data that we have gathered. And that limited data we have gathered through
what we call as the five sense organs – by seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting and touching.
This is the way all the information has gone in. And this information is not reliable because (Laughs)… -
well, there are many ways to put this. If I touch this glass, it feels cool to me – not because I know how it is, simply because in comparison
with my body temperature it feels cool to me. If my body temperature really drops
and then I touch it, this would feel warm to me or in other words, you know everything
only by comparison. What you know by comparison is not knowing,
it’s a distortion of reality. Like for example, you’re six feet tall. Now, you walk like a tall man, you think like
a tall man, you feel like a tall man, you are a tall man. You went to another society,
where everybody is eight feet tall. Suddenly, you walk like a short man, think like a short man, feel like a short man and you are a short man. So, what you know by comparison
is not really knowing as such. You can go even more fundamental. Well, you have owls in Pennsylvania? Interviewer: What’s that? Sadhguru: In Philadelphia, rather. Interviewer: What? Sadhguru: Owl? Owl, the bird? Interviewer: The bird owl? Sure. Sadhguru: Yeah. If you and an owl sit together and start an argument as to which is light and which is darkness, where would you go? Endless argument. I’m asking, who is right – you or the owl? I said youth should be wise. You must tell me. Hmm? Who is right? Both? I can’t say this in a university, but usually “both” is said by people who are serving in the diplomatic corps (Laughter) or… or those who have a success…
successful marriage (Laughter). Both, both, both – otherwise they won’t survive (Laughter). But the fact of the matter is, either both of us
could be wrong, or one of us could be wrong. Both of us cannot be right. It is just that our sense organs have been
opened up as it is necessary for our survival and nothing more than that. So turning inward needs more than sense perception. As I said, I repeat once again, unfortunately
– because this is one thing that bothers me – unfortunately, in the entire scheme of education,
there is not a thing about how to turn inward. It’s all about reading information from the book and thinking we know it. With this kind of knowledge… Well, it’s the educated people on the planet
who destroyed this planet, isn’t it? The uneducated doesn’t cause so much damage. Ever since this education prevailed, since then,
we have destroyed the planet like never before. We do patchy work, we’ll drive a Tesla,
all right, but (Laughter)…. Interviewer: And I know that you sit often with
– I don’t want to sound morbid here – with folks on their deathbed
and you learn a lot from that. Sadhguru: Hey, you’re accusing me of things now (Laughter). Interviewer: What are some of the lessons that you’ve learned that we could all take away (Sadhguru laughs)? Sadhguru: Mortality is the most obvious thing in our life. We don’t know whether you’re going
to get a university degree or not, we don’t know whether you’re going to be the richest
man on the planet or not but we know one thing, you’re gonna… you’re gonna die, okay (Laughs)? That much we know (Laughs). But it’s amazing that more than
eighty-five percent of the people have no idea that they will die
till their very last few days come (Laughs). It’s quite ridiculous, but that’s the reality. And you will be surprised that I would say,
over eighty-five percent of the people, the last moments, they look bewildered. They’re not fearful, they’re not in pain, they look bewildered, because they
never even started their life yet. All that’s happened in their life is
their thought and emotion. Your thought and emotion is just a
psychological drama that you’re going through. No experience of life has really happened.
Very few moments, they’ve touched life. Rest of the time, they’re just busy with
their own thoughts and their own emotions. Your thoughts and emotions mean nothing actually. But right now, it is larger than the cosmos.
Yes (Laughs). Today, everything is going perfect in the cosmos, no accidents, no galaxies clashed,
no star wars happened, all right? Everything is going great but one nasty little
thought in your head, it’s a bad day (Few laugh). So, somewhere, your psychological drama has
become bigger than the cosmic happening. Once you lose perspective on this scale,
then living well is an accident. Interviewer: So more on joy, because when
I see you on your motorcycle, on a speedboat, swinging a golf club, I see joy (Sadhguru laughs). So tell me… tell me more on joy. Let’s end on joy and then I’m going to give you the stage
and we can open up to questions. Sadhguru: There’re many ways to look at this.
One simple way to look at this is – all human experience has a chemical basis to it. What you call as peace is a certain kind of chemistry, what you call as joy is another kind of chemistry, what is bliss is another kind of chemistry, ecstasy is one kind of chemistry, agony is another, misery is another, anxiety is another,
stress is another, whatever. Every human experience has a chemical basis. Or in other words, what you call as myself,
on one level, experientially, is a chemical soup. The question is only, is it a great soup
or a lousy soup (Laughs)? Suppose I gave soup-making
ingredients to every one of you, do you believe that all of you
will make the same kind of soup? Each one will turn out your own kind of soup,
though the ingredients are same. That’s all that’s happened. All of us have fundamentally same ingredients,
see how different each one has become, because the soup-making skill (Laughs). It’s a delicate skill. If you create a chemistry of blissfulness,
you will be blissful. Because right now, people are thinking
situations are either happy or unhappy. Situations are not happy or unhappy. Situations are neither problematic nor beautiful,
they’re just there. It’s for us, what we make out of it. If you label it as a problem, it becomes a problem. If you simply look at it, it’s always a possibility. This is not about being optimistic, this is just realistic. There is no situation on the planet,
which is marked a problem, isn’t it? It’s only in your mind, you mark it as a problem. Whatever you don’t know how to handle,
it’ll become a problem. What is a problem for you,
may be a breeze for somebody else. So, this process of constantly labeling as
“okay, not okay, I like this, I don’t like this” – this is where the problem is. There is no equanimity in the mind. It is… It is sloshing crazy. Every situation is sloshing the mind
in so many different ways. The fundamental problem, you can say,
is evolutionary in nature. You know Charles Darwin? You guys studied
some science, right? Not all business (Few laugh). Charles Darwin said you were all monkeys. You know, he said, not me (Few laugh). You were all monkeys and then you became human. He also went about saying what was supposedly a deer, supposed to have become a giraffe over a few million years, what was a pig became an elephant – things like this, took millions of years. But for the monkey to become human,
it happened rather quickly – so quickly that anthropologists think
there is a missing link somewhere (Laughs). So this rapid transition from a monkey to man
has caused some problems. According to science today, they’re saying the DNA difference between a chimpanzee and a human being is only 1.23 percent. 1.23 percent is not much of a difference,
isn’t it (Few laugh)? Physiologically, that’s how close you are
to a chimpanzee. But in terms of intellect, in terms of awareness,
a human being is worlds apart from a chimpanzee. Or in other words, you have an intelligence
for which you don’t have a stable enough platform. Now, when was the last time
somebody poked you with a dagger? They never did it (Few laugh)? Tch, tch, they ignored you (Laughs). I’m saying, how much suffering in a human
being is coming from outside? Miniscule. Rest is all on self-help, isn’t it? That is, your own intelligence turning against you. You can call it stress, you can call it anxiety,
you can call it fear, you can call it misery, you can call it whatever exotic names you want -
essentially, it’s your intelligence turning against you. That’s all that’s happened, because you have an intelligence for which
you don’t have a stable enough platform. So the entire yogic system, the fundamental
nature of yoga is to create a stable platform. I know if I use the word yoga in America,
it means twisting yourself like a pretzel (Few laugh). That’s not what yoga is about. Unfortunately, only the physical aspect, which is - out of two-hundred-and-odd Sutras that Patanjali gave, only one Sutra is about physical aspect of yoga - unfortunately, in America, that one is
being blown out of proportion (Laughs). Interviewer: We have about twenty minutes. I’m going to leave you with the future
to chat and ask… answer questions and use up the rest of the twenty minutes. Sadhguru: Use it up (Applause)? Interviewer: The stage is yours (Sadhguru laughs). Sadhguru: Yeah? Questioner: So, does getting a formal education, like we get it here, have any value to the internal well-being? Sadhguru: I think the formal education is oriented towards a particular subject – maybe here, business, as it is. You could use everything for your inner well-being. But the fundamental orientation has not been done,
I would say, right from primary education. The society itself is not oriented that way. Entire society here, and now slowly in the rest of the world, is becoming such – well-being means, what are the ten things I must have in my life? People have those ten things
and you still see them miserable. You see people driving their dream machines. You just stop the traffic for five minutes,
people will be fretting in their dream machines. They’re not happy that they can spend extra
five minutes in their dream machine (Laughter). They’re just fretting (Laughs), they’re on the
edge of bursting (Laughs) at each other. This is not because of situations.
Situations are better than ever before. I want you to understand, as young people,
as a generation of people – never before in the history of humanity have we
known these kind of comforts and conveniences, as you people are enjoying right now, never before. Yes? But never before, humanity has complained
as it’s complaining today. We are becoming such a whining generation of people (Laughs), though everything has become easy, we don’t have
to physically work for anything, for that matter. Yes? Everything comes - if you turn on a switch,
everything comes. I want you to look back two hundred years ago, if you wanted water you had to carry something and come, if you wanted food you had to go out and get it. Now everything comes, you just have to
order it on your phone (Laughs). In spite of that we’re complaining. No, the future generations, the young people here, you should see that we’re having physically
the best possible life that human beings ever had. Now making it good for ourselves and everybody around us should be our commitment, experientially good. That will not happen unless we turn inward and we know
how to manage this one (Referring to oneself). Above all, those of you wanting to become leaders,
you must understand – being a leader means in some way
you have to manage a 1000 or 10000 minds. If you cannot manage your own mind, how will you
manage 10000 minds? It’ll be a disaster. Questioner: Do you think some professions are more meaningful than others and if we are like in finance or art, should we eventually
evolve into helping others or you know…? Sadhguru: (Laughs) Can I… Can I tell you something that happened…
a couple of years ago? A young boy, a twelve-year-old boy, who is
studying in one of our school, wrote a letter to me. He’s just twelve years of age. He wrote a two-page letter to me, I was amazed
at the clarity with which he wrote. I had never seen a twelve-year-old boy
writing that kind of a letter. It was too mature and clear and beautifully articulated. So, I thought, "Who is this fellow? I want to see him." So, it’s… in India it’s very rare for people
to get an appointment with me because my schedule is twenty hours a day,
it’s fixed up seven days of the week. So, I gave an appointment to this boy. So, he came and said, “I don’t want to end up like my
parents just doing this and that, working for a living.” I said, “Hold it. It’s fine, you want to do something different is fine, but the moment you look down upon something
you will not do anything significant in your life.” So, I told him a simple thing – we have
a center where nearly 4000 people are living and every day we have at least 5 to 10000
people coming as guests and going. So, I told him, “See, tomorrow morning
if I close the meditation hall" - everybody comes… morning sadhana
starts at 5:30 in the morning there - I said, “When they come for the meditation hall,
if I lock it and keep it without any explanation and if people just say, 'Sadhguru has locked it,' everybody will think, ‘Oh, there must be a higher purpose,
let’s wait,’ all right?” They will wait – one day, two days, ten days, they will wait thinking something bigger is coming, but if I lock the dining hall” - ten o’clock is our meal in the morning - “Suppose I close the dining hall and the word is spread,
'Sadhguru locked the door of the dining hall.' People will think maybe today evening a feast
is coming and they will wait at least till evening. But if I lock up the toilets in the morning,
people will freak within five minutes” (Laughter). So I asked him, "Which is more important -
meditation, food or shit (Laughter)?" So, don’t ever look up at something
or look down on something. This is a simple thing you have to learn (Laughs). There is nothing to look up to, there is nothing
to look down upon – if this one thing you learn, never look up at anybody, never look down on anybody. If you simply learn to see everything for what it is –
in every sphere of life we can do something significant. Questioner: So, how do you think, like
how do you react to certain situations? What’s the first thought that goes through your mind when, like something you really wanted to happen didn't, or what do you think when you meet a new person? Sadhguru: I think, when I was introduced,
Jonathan was saying “I was raised”. I always felt only cattle are raised. Human beings should not be raised by anybody. The thing about being human is… it’s a very common word that people are using – “I was raised”… you know, people say “I was raised Catholic, I was raised Muslim,
I was raised this or that.” Nobody should raise you, that’s what human means. A human means you can consciously shape yourself. If you’re consciously shaping yourself,
where is the question of reacting to anything? You can respond as… according to your intelligence
and your inclinations of the day. But the moment you react you’re enslaved
to the situations in which you live. So, when something doesn’t go your way -
see (Laughs), you must understand I’m… I’m in charge of a Foundation which is
nearly 4000 fulltime volunteers and over three million part-time
volunteers doing variety of work. Volunteers means none of them are
qualified for the job (Laughter). There is enthusiasm but there is no qualification and
you can’t fire them because they’re volunteers (Laughs). And at any moment, without a warning, without notice they may drop the job that they’re doing and walkaway. In spite of that I must tell you, as we sit here today
there are a few hundred programs, Inner Engineering programs, going on in the world. In the last thirty-four years, not a single program
has been abandoned, left unfinished – that’s lot of management, isn’t it (Laughs)? Because the entire process is about
keeping people in an inspired state, that they will hold what they’re doing more
important than their life and make it happen. Does it mean to say everything
is happening the way I want it? No. If at all if anybody has to go crazy on this planet,
it’s me because there’re too many things. People keep telling me, “Sadhguru, you’re starting this
one more project, if it doesn’t happen, what to do?” If something does not happen or if nothing happens, if everything that I’m doing fails tomorrow morning, I will still live blissfully and die blissfully. So, this is one thing that
you must ascertain within yourself – your way of being is not determined
by what is happening around you. What happens within you must be determined by you, what happens around you there are
too many forces involved, isn’t it? When we want to do something in the world
there are too many forces which have to cooperate, not all of them may cooperate, never all of them will cooperate hundred percent. Nobody around you will happen
hundred percent your way. You’re still a young girl. I’m telling you if you have large expectations of people, no one (Laughs), not one single person in your life
will happen one hundred percent your way. Fifty-one percent if they happen your way, you have controlling stake on the whole situation (Laughs). But this one person (Referring to oneself)
must happen your way, isn’t it, one hundred percent? If this person (Referring to oneself) is happening
your way, how would you keep that person, blissful or miserable? Participants: Blissful. Sadhguru: That’s all, you keep this blissful then in every situation, you’ll do your best and that’s all you can do. Just because you freak and fret nothing happens better (Laughs). So, what is the first thought - the thing about me is, most of the time I don’t have a single
thought on my mind (Laughter). I’m just empty headed. Just to make it look substantial I wear a turban (Laughter). I don’t have a single thought on my mind
most of the time. When I want to think I sit down and think,
but otherwise I don’t have thoughts flying in my mind. This is a simple thing you have to do. The moment you’re not identified with anything
that you are not - when I say anything that you are not, right now the water in this glass – is this you? Hmm? If you drink it, will it become you? No? If you drink this, will it become you or not? Participants:_____ (Inaudible) Sadhguru: How did you get this body, hmm (Laughter)? Were you born like this? You’re normal birth or no? Participants: Yes. Sadhguru: No, a few people fell from heaven,
that’s why I’m asking you (Laughter). If you are normal birth, you were only this much (Gestures), now you became this much (Gestures). How? Just the food that you’ve eaten
and the water that you’ve consumed, isn’t it? So, if you drink this, it becomes you? Questioner: Yes but no. Yes because it definitely…. Sadhguru: How is it “yes but no” (Laughter)? Questioner: Yes, because it definitely helps
in, like, keeping me alive and making me who I am…. Sadhguru: No, not that. What is the content of your body,
do you know two-thirds of your body is just water? Questioner: Yes, but it’s not necessarily of that water. Sadhguru: Where did it come from then? Questioner: I mean, you drink water every day. Sadhguru: Yes. Questioner: And like… Sadhguru: Yes. Questioner: …so, and also you go to restroom every day (Few laugh). So, like, the water… that… that water
isn't going to be part of you…. Sadhguru: Some part of the water is retained
and that’s what is you, right? Right now? Questioner: Yes. Sadhguru: So, I’m asking… okay, a third
of this water becomes you, all right (Laughter). I didn’t know you were trying to be that specific (Laughter). The food that you eat and the water
that you drink has become you, isn’t it? So, what has happened right now is –
what you accumulate has become you. You tell me - what you accumulate can be yours
but can never ever be you, isn’t it? Right now, as I speak,
if I pick up this and say, “This is my glass.” You will think, "Sadhguru has got some problem
but everybody says he's wise, let’s listen some more." After sometime I say, “This is me”
then you’ll say, “Let’s go.” Yes or no? Because this is a clear case of insanity. The moment you believe something that is not you
as yourself, even medically you qualify (Laughter). Yes. But that’s what has happened. The food appears on your plate, you say “this is my food”, then you eat it and then you say “this is me”. This is… The heap of food that we have gathered
has become you. The heap of information that you’ve gathered
has become you. The moment you identify with something that’s not you,
then your mind is ceaseless activity. Ceaseless activity does not mean intelligence, ceaseless activity or uncontrolled activity means madness. Only… Only satisfaction or only little bit of relief that you may have is, everybody around you is in the same state. This mind is truly useful… This hand is useful only because
it takes instructions from me. If I want it to go, it goes, if I want it to stop, it stops. The same is true with the mind, isn’t it? I’m asking… does it take instructions from you? If it took instructions from you, I’m sure you would choose to keep yourself
blissful every moment of your life. Whatever your intentions may be for the neighbor, but for yourself it’s very clear,
you want highest level of pleasantness, yes? If you had a choice between blissfulness and
stressfulness, what would you choose for yourself? You must make a choice, I’ll bless you (Few laughs). What would you choose for yourself? Participants: Pleasantness. Sadhguru: Pleasantness, isn’t it? When we say pleasantness, it’s just this – if the body becomes pleasant, we call this health;
becomes very pleasant, we call it pleasure. If the mind becomes pleasant we call it peace;
becomes very pleasant - we call it joy. If our emotions become pleasant - we call it love;
if it becomes very pleasant, we call it compassion. If our very life energies become pleasant, we call it blissfulness; becomes very pleasant - we call it ecstasy. If your surroundings become pleasant,
we call it success. Only for success you need the cooperation
of various forces around you. For the remaining four… the first four levels of pleasantness of
body, mind, emotion and energy, is just you. If you take charge of this (Referring to oneself),
this will be pleasant, outside – well, it’s a question of skill, not everybody can create external pleasantness
because you will have to harness many forces. Yes, please. Questioner: So, as we’re pursuing… sorry,
as we’re pursuing our careers, and you know, we’re trying to use what we’re learning here
and having this business mindset, but trying to integrate this like heart of a yogi,
I guess that you’re advocating for – what are some of the things that we can do
on a daily basis, whether it’s thoughts or practices, while we’re working, to quicker achieve this mindset? Sadhguru: I don’t like the word mindset. A mind that is set is not good (Laughs). You shouldn’t have any mindset. See, success is everybody’s aspiration. Success does not mean that only something
big I’m aspiring for, I want it to happen. No, with every single action you want success, isn’t it? Yes or no? Hmm? It’s not just one big thing that is success - every little thing that you do because
the very purpose of action is success. When you do something you want it to be successful, isn’t it? Yes or no? If you want to throw your cap on your head
if it doesn’t fall, you don’t like it, isn’t it? You want it to stick to your head (Laughs). It’s that important, success I’m saying. Even the simplest thing, you want even the
simplest act to be successful. So, if you have a mindset, then you will deny yourself of that because
success will not come because of any mindset. Success comes because you are
able to see things just the way they are. For this, instead of having a mindset, if you work
upon your mind to see that it is like a plain mirror. Right now depending upon your identifications, whatever you’re identified with
accordingly it has bumps on it, a bumpy mirror, you know how it shows things to you,
that’s all its… that’s happening right now. You have mindsets. If this (Referring to human mind) becomes a clear,
plain mirror – it should show you just the way it is. Only then you can find your way
successfully through the world. How far you go depends on you. Your competence, your inclination,
how far you’re willing to go. Not everybody is willing to go all the way
in any field of life. There are some people who want to go all the way,
some people are happy going that (Gestures) far. It’s individual choices, there is no necessity
everybody should go full throttle, all the time. It is something each individual decides for
himself or herself. Questioner: Yeah…. Sadhguru: Sir, please. Questioner: Thank you. The mindset may be different from a set mind. And what you can tell something more about…
You mentioned there is no more… Sadhguru: There is no? Questioner: You mentioned there is no more
in the material sphere, in the sphere of quantity. You mentioned we have only one planet,
we don’t have four planets, there are no more planets. That is in the quantitative world. In the qualitative world… In the qualitative world, the courage, adventuresome-ness, persistence, optimism, discipline, generosity, prayer, patience, knowledge and energy – there is a
lot more in the domain that will cause the quality. Getting closer in a disciplined set way, to
the quality of life that you have already acquired. To you, there is no more because you have the most. But us learning to consider the inner domain, the qualitative ways of arriving to the quality
that you have achieved, there is more. Sadhguru: (Laughs) I said no more for the material stuff that everybody is aspiring for because we are a lot of people on this planet, our present way of structuring our economies, the way we’re driving the
economic engine on the planet, this is a style and a mode which
people formulated or structured when… when there was an imperialist way of looking at things. At that time the world was planned that way. Ten percent of the planet wanted to live well…
ten percent of the humanity wanted to live well and they always believed the remaining ninety percent
will be enslaved and that’s how it will be. But that world has changed, today across the
world… planet every human being is aspiring to live better than the way they are and
nobody can contain them anymore. You can put impediments in their way,
wars and situations can be created but you can never contain them anymore,
that world is gone. So, the way we are looking at success, if our idea of success doesn’t go through
a dimensional change, then there’ll be… we will understand that it…
we will cause many disasters on the way. About the mind – when we say the word mind
in English language, it is not specific, it is generally for the entire scape of things. In yogic terminology we have sixteen parts to the mind. To make it simple I will make it four… four segments. These four are referred to as
buddhi, manas, ahankara and chitta. What this means is intellect, the next one is mind, next one is identity, and the next one is chitta for which
I don’t think there’s an appropriate English word. Let me explain what these are –
intellect is the knife in the front, whatever you give to your intellect,
it will cut it open and see. The way of the intellect is to dissect everything. Well, instead of being in a business school,
if you were in a science school, you would be dissecting frogs,
you would be dissecting so many things and open it up and see the frog’s heart beating
and you’re very excited how it is beating. Believe me the frog was
never excited about this (Few Laugh), never been, but you will see science students very excited, how the frog’s heart is beating
and what all they learned from that. A frog doesn’t think much about such studies. If I want to really know you well, you think
I should dissect you (Laughter)? I’m saying, dissection may give you a
material understanding of a few things but it will not allow you to know life in any sense, isn’t it? You can’t know somebody by dissection. Well, today people know human body through dissection or at least opening the dead bodies, that’s different but you still don’t know nothing about life. That is why we call it medicine not health because today you must know the food industry
on the planet is something like 7.6 trillion dollars, the pharmaceutical industry is
7.2 trillion dollars right now. They say by the end of 2017,
it will overtake the food industry - that means people are taking more medicine
than the food that they eat on this planet. That says everything about our health situations. This says everything about our mindset
about the world that we live in, and our mindset about our own lives which has led to this kind of situation
that we are eating more medicine than food. So, intellect is a dissecting tool, whatever you give it, it’ll dissect and look,
it is useful to handle material aspects of life. Manas means, it’s a silo of memory. When I say a silo of memory, memory means
people think what they remember, consciously. You definitely don’t remember how your
great-great-great-great-great-grandfather or grandmother looked like but his or her
nose is sitting on your face, right now. Your body remembers I’m saying. Your body remembers how your forefathers looked
a million years ago, no confusion about that, isn’t it? You can’t remember all this in your mind. The volume of memory that a single molecule
of DNA carries is many, many, many fold more than your entire brain carries right now. So, there is a huge silo of memory - evolutionary memory, genetic memory and there is karmic memory and there is conscious memory - put together, it is huge volume of memory. Your intellect, knowingly or unknowingly,
consciously or unconsciously, is guided by this memory. What type of memory that is there is what
is playing out in the form of your intellect. Why one person thinks one way, another person
thinks another way, one person acts this way, another person acts the other way is simply because of
the nature of memory that is there in the form of evolutionary memory, genetic memory, karmic memory and the conscious memory that we’ve gathered. And most of the memory that you have
is unconscious in nature. As you sit here, all the five senses
are gathering memory right now. In wakefulness and sleep, it is gathering memory. It is just that not even a miniscule of that
you are conscious - most of it is unconscious. If you walk from here to here, there may be
twenty-five different types of smells but only if something is acutely pleasant or
acutely unpleasant, you will consciously notice it but all of these things are recorded in one’s memory. There are many experiments to prove today
as to how this recording is there and in deep states of hypnosis
these memories can be brought out – this is something that’s been studied in recent times. But the memory… the enormous silo of memory
is determining how your knife of intellect is directed, either towards somebody or yourself. All suffering is just that knife
is directed towards ourselves. The third dimension of the mind is called
ahankara, which means identity. What you’re identified with, that is what
our intellect tries to protect. If you say I’m an American it protects that,
if you say I’m an Indian it protects that, if you say I am a man it protects that,
if you say I’m a woman it protects that, like this we have taken multiple identities. It tries to protect that all the time and
it functions within the limitations of that identity. The fourth layer of intelligence is
the most important aspect – this is an intelligence which is unsullied by memory,
there is no iota of memory in this intelligence. This is the intelligence which is
the basis of our existence, that is - if you as much as eat a fruit, this fruit becomes
a human being in a matter of few hours. This is that intelligence which transforms
everything into this (Referring to oneself) based on the silo of memory we carry, but
the intelligence itself is untouched by memory. If you find access to this intelligence, every human being may touch this intelligence
at certain moments of their life accidentally or because of situational support. But if you consciously learn to access this
dimension of intelligence, in (Laughs)… in yogic parlance in a very mischievous way
they say, if you touch your chitta… if you can access your chitta, they say,
"God becomes your slave." He is no more a god. Because anything that you wish to manifest
simply happens out of you, there is no fear or fervor about life anymore. So, there are four dimensions -
mind does not mean just thought process. Thought process is coming from the surface
of our minds, which is called intellect or the logical dimension of our mind. It is useful to do only certain things. If you try to conduct your whole life
with your logic you will see, you will freak. This is what is happening today. To eat the food (Laughs), simple thing,
people have been eating forever but today… today’s generation of people, if they have
to eat something they have to read that micro print behind the package which says 0.01 percent
of magnesium, so much of iron, this, this, this, another forty-eight ingredients, by the time you read this
you’ve lost your appetite anyway (Laughter). If you put some food in front of your dog (Sniffs),
one sniff and he knows whether to eat it or not. I’m saying human neurological system is far more
evolved than any other creature on this planet. Yes? Do you agree with me? But right now simply because there is an endless
amount of thought going on in people’s minds, their ability to know things just like that is largely gone. Today human beings are struggling
with fundamental things. What your grandmothers naturally knew, today there is
a billion-dollar research about that (Laughter). Interviewer: One last question and then let’s wrap. Questioner: So, you mentioned, “Don’t tweak your desire,
instead tweak your competence.” Can you elaborate on that? And what is your definition of competence? Sadhguru: See, tweaking the desire
unfortunately gets labeled as ambition and that seems to rule
a whole lot of people at a very early age. Desire is like this – for example, you,
let’s say live in America, your neighbor has a big car. What will be your desire? To have two cars like that, or something
bigger than that, something like this. Suppose you’re living in a remote place somewhere else
in the world, where they don’t know any such cars, your neighbor had a buffalo,
what would be your desire? Two buffalos. I’m saying, you… the content of your desire
is a consequence of the societies in which you live. It’s never about yourself.
That’s why it never fulfills you. It never makes your life complete but
it keeps you going and going all the time because it is in reaction to the society
in which you exist that you’re desiring. Because you’re in a certain society,
you’re desiring in a certain way. If you were in a different society,
you would be desiring in a different way. Competence comes in two different scales. One is competence of action in the area
or the field that we have chosen. That is what you’re doing right now,
being in a business school. Because you want to get into business,
you’re studying business, that’s fine. But the other competence is about life. It doesn’t matter whether you do
business or law or medicine or whatever, still you need to have competence of life because
that is the fundamental thing you’re doing here. You're not going to… Your business is not going to be
the fundamental aspect of your life. Life is the fundamental,
business is one component of that. But life competencies are not taught. By the time one learns… Like Jonathan was showing, by the time one
begins to figure things, they’re fifty. Nothing wrong being fifty, but twenty-five years
went waste figuring fundamental things. After human beings having existed
for millions of years on this planet, by now we should have known how to live, isn’t it? I’m saying… I’m talking about the huge amount of
experience that human societies must have had, we should have known how to live. But do you see, we seem to be struggling
more than ever as a generation of people? This is simply because there is no life competency. When I say life competency, essentially
it’s about two fundamental things – your body and your mind should take instructions from you, only then you’re competent to live in this world. Yes? No? Even if you want to walk through the street, your body and your mind should take instructions from you. Questioner: What about you? Sadhguru: Hmm? Questioner: Sorry, what about you? Sadhguru: What about me (Few laugh)? Questioner: You say… So you were saying that we shouldn’t take advice anybody else, from ourselves. Should we take this advice from you? Sadhguru: You should not (Laughter). I don’t think I ever said anything about advice anyway. Questioner: Should we change the way____ (Inaudible)? Sadhguru: And does it feel like
I’m giving you some advice? I am not (Laughs). Questioner: And also, should we change the way I… because your talk was expressing ourselves
and being ourselves. Is there a need to change ourselves,
like a child a new ____ (Inaudible). Sadhguru: See, when you say myself,
when you say myself or ourselves, you are referring to a certain persona
that you’ve picked up. Your persona, is it just a complex amalgamation of all the impressions that you have taken
in the process of these many years, isn’t it? So your persona is not myself, persona is something
that you created – maybe unconsciously. But there are parts of your persona,
which are conscious, isn’t it? Yes or no? There are parts of your personality,
which are conscious but largely unconscious. When you say myself or our self,
you’re talking about your personality. I’m saying your personality
should not be a rigid, concrete block. It must be a flexible amoeba that fits into
any situation that you get into, because for different situations,
you need a different kind of persona, otherwise you start saying, “I’m this kind of person.” No, your personality is something that you make.
You can make it any way you want. But right now, what you make rules you
– that's not right. What you make should be managed by you.
What you make should not rule you, isn’t it? So when you say myself, if you’re limiting
yourself to your persona, it should be flexible. If you’re talking about the nature of your mind,
it should be absolutely flexible. Now, there may be… See, everything that we’re talking about
is accumulated stuff. Body is accumulated, the content of the mind
is accumulated, content of the body is accumulated. If you have to accumulate so much,
there must be something more fundamental. If you don’t touch that dimension ever,
then this will just go on – battle between me and you all the time,
between this and that. This is where the fundamental
idea of competition comes from, because you made yourself to be
something other than who you are. If you become a piece of life… Are you a life? I’m asking you. You’re thinking about it (Laughter). Are you a life? Yes. If you throb here as life, everything that
you need to know about life, you naturally know. You don’t have to have a Ph.D. on life. This (Referring to oneself) is life. This (Referring to oneself) is life. But right now, you are not a life. You’ve become a bundle of thoughts, emotions,
ideas, opinions and prejudices. If you pierce beyond that, there is something more fundamental than all these things, which is life itself. If everybody was in touch with this, they would be
utterly, absolutely flexible, because life is flexible. Do you (Laughs) see it this way? When you were… You know, at some point, you were
just three feet tall, right? Yes? At that time, did you fit properly
into this body or tight-fitting, I’m asking? Questioner: I did fit. Yeah, I did. Sadhguru: You did fit properly, right?
Now are you loose-fitting (Few laugh)? No. I’m saying, that which is life,
fits perfectly well into any situation. But that which is your mind, that which is your persona, because it’s become like a concrete block, it doesn’t fit. So, your mind and your personality
should serve the life within you. But right now, it’s the other way round - the life within you is being forced
to serve your mind and your persona. What you created should serve you, isn’t
it? But you’re serving what you created.
Your thoughts and emotions are ruling you. After all, it’s your thought, you can
have it whichever way you want. It’s your emotion, you can
make it whichever way you want. If you were consciously doing this, I am sure
you would make it highest level of pleasantness for you. And if you were in a highest level of pleasantness,
you would be wonderful to everybody around you. Isn’t that true with you? If I meet you when you’re very joyful,
are you not a wonderful person? You are. If I meet you when you’re angry, unhappy,
frustrated, you could be nasty (Few laugh). Joy is the ultimate insurance
for creating a wonderful humanity. We have focused too much on creating
good people, which is a serious mistake. We need joyful and sensible human beings. (Applause)
