Joe Rogan Experience #1049 - Chris Stapleton

ready boom and we're live what's up man how's it going pleasure to meet you yeah man I'm a [ __ ] huge fan of yours oh well thank you very much I listen to your the last album I've listened to that [ __ ] thing hundreds of times I listen to it all the time when I'm headed to the comic store puts me in a good mood that's good that's that's what musics supposed to do I just stunned by the fact that for the longest time you were basically doing the songwriting thing you were doing a lot of that you're making your own music but you were known more as a songwriter yeah well you know you walked through the doors that are open you know yeah so you do the things that come up and and you know somewhere in a minute all that you find out what your thing is my god damn your voice is so good man see I mean I don't want a fanboy out on you but it's just such a classic like male voice you know like singing those kind of songs it's like I'm glad someone's still doing it right oh well I don't I don't know you know thank you also say thank you I don't want to say I'm doing it writing somebody else is doing it wrong well for me I'm doing what I do you know what you do I like I'm just happy to someone out there doing what you're doing thank you and what what is going on with you right now you got a new album it's about to come out you got a new album that's yeah came out December 1st and yeah we're proud of and hope people like it kiss it on iTunes and all that jazz yeah you get everywhere that music is available as far as I know that's what they tell me so how do the doors opened up for you now is everything feel like oh yeah we're saying you're talking on everything's good no yeah everything beyond good good would be the understatement of the century for you know just so many things that sound like fake you know like fake life yeah you know things that having phone calls you get people you meet people you get to talk to and like what shoe man just any of it just you know getting to go play and this past year we played three shows with Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers and you know that must've been amazing it was amazing we played Wrigley Field with Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers [ __ ] yeah that was that I don't know it was a bunch but it it felt just as cool as it sounds like it should yeah man Wrigley Field with Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers it doesn't get any cooler than that not to me it doesn't not you know but you know maybe there maybe there's something else so how long has success been happening like two years now to the degree that it's happening right now you know probably since you know 2015 a couple a couple years of good strong we're going on three of you know doing playing shows to more people than we knew ever came to last show yeah well it's been you know a strange life-altering thing when you here ladies and gentlemen please welcome Chris Stapleton and what does that like freak you out well we don't usually doing money announcements like that we just kind of walk out there and play that's the move yeah we don't we don't hype them up good to me too much we just kind of walk out there fire up oh that might be the way to do it well I mean as everybody has their own thing but I don't have like a hot guy doing that you need like the kiss guy the hottest band in the world okay I made that when I was a kid I would go and see kiss live a bunch of times you'd get so [ __ ] pumped up at the beginning because they would go the hottest band in the world I've never seen kiss life but gene Simmons did show up to a show of ours once it really was a weirdest thing ever he said we were in New York somewhere and he just happened to be in town we played the night before wherever we were playing and he showed up and just to say hi and here's gene Simmons on the side of the stage before we go play our gig I'm just like you know really yeah we're talking about you ask that was one of them it's like hi hi gene Simmons gene Simmons came to see me one time a few years back at New Year's Eve at the improv him and his family to see me New Year's Eve but I was [ __ ] legitimately nervous the whole time you're looking at James Cole yeah looking at him you know one way or the other you know it was so odd yeah it's like you know who I am a [ __ ] is that possible look it's strange stuff man so this but I love talking to people that are like a year two years into the situation you're in right now where you're just kind of getting settled into it where it still seems like Fantasyland I'm not sure that it would ever not seem like Fantasyland because I spent enough years not in Fantasyland to realize that it's in Fantasyland you could be you could be like seventy one day on cocaine 15 ex-wives that sounds horrible it seems like it happens to a lot of folks right well it may be yeah I'm gonna hope not me yeah I hope not you too yeah you know I mean you seem like you could avoid it seems like a horrid horrid existence well there's a balancing act I think with any great musician or any great artist really is I doing the art and then now you're you're in the fame Olympics like you're in this this weird thing where you know you're gonna win Grammys and you're gonna have platinum albums if they still have those anymore and you're gonna be on these talk shows and people are gonna wreck it's it's a different animal now well yeah yes no no for me I mean I still whatever we have is because we concentrated on the music and musically and so try to do anything other than that you know I'll have fun with some of the stuff you know good somebody wants me to do a bit on the show or something I'm fine with that that's right cool but it still all just comes from music you know and it's all the focus is always gonna be the music and anything other than that you know there's never in my mind any focus on trying to stay famous does that make sense yes and I knew you were gonna think like that yeah I'm very happy sad no way I didn't I don't make music for that reason and order to win awards or anything like that I make it because I like it and hope that it's good well I think it's very clear in your music itself that does what you're doing very clear it's very clear that that's pure that it's just this is what you do and you're concentrating on that it's not there's nothing disingenuous about it there's no and pumped-up faker well yeah yeah hope not you know ya know right that's the guy but I mean it's got to be a weird world I mean the world of the music business is a very very strange world I've talked to a lot of musicians and you know then navigating the world of Commerce and music and I there again I you know I always if you just simplify it down to let the music lead and let that kind of be always the focus it's for me that makes it real easy to not make what I think decisions you would regret or or feel like weren't you so as long as that's the focus that's okay you know all that other stuff just kind of becomes you know external noise that you know we'll all it doesn't matter you know it's not a it's not a it's not a hard thing to navigate in that realm to me to you to me no but you must see it being a difficult thing for some folks you know right sometimes you know some people but some people you know care very much about first person to ever get me in dangerous waters like I'm talking about people oh we don't have to name names and I don't want to sound judgmental and what I'm saying my wife calls this pulling back the curtain too much I don't pull back that curtain too much but you know if you want to pull back I know that you like you the guy would like to pull back the curtain so good to look back there sometimes yeah okay [ __ ] the monsters are up to well yeah I mean I think I think if you if you roll up into the music business or you know this is my experience if you roll up into want to make records and want to be in the music business and want to make live and playing music having absolutely no opinion of what you want to do or who you are or how you do it and you want everybody else to tell you how to do it and what to do and when and where and why then yeah it can be a confusing thing because there will be a lot of external opinions that aren't yours that will create someone that is not you you will have to play for the rest of your life so it was that a lot of emotion no that's right yeah so now you know but as long as you're doing things that that are you and and do come you know from you and and from who you are and what you'd like to do that's never a wrong decision and and sometimes that doesn't add up to most times it doesn't add up to some kind of commercial success but you know at least you can look at yourself in the mirror on it and and not hate whatever it is you have to go out and play right so it can become like the artistic equivalent of like a soulless corporate job where you just kind of get sucked into something you want to doing it for a living maybe it makes you money but you never really get to be yourself because you're sort of programmed into this thing that they've sort of manufactured yes yeah well or and or you ignore some other passion or talent that you have under the guise of it's seeming risky or irresponsible and try to go do this thing that seems like in your mind is the normal thing to do like when Garth Brooks put on that wig and pretending to be that other dude remember that part I love when someone goes like woah way off the reservation I think the story was that and I don't know if this is true or not that there was supposed to be like a movie yeah they did a documentary they did a behind the music is that well as fake guy but I think I think I think the idea was that we're supposed to be a movie here it is and his chains and then and then and then like this was supposed to be like the soundtrack but I think the mistake if there was a mistake and I'm not gonna try to discuss oh such a nice guy well you know I'm Who am I to judge anybody well hey I mean ticularly somebody as successful as he is but I love I got friends in low places yeah I love a lot of Garth's music I'm not a Garth Brooks hater I think that was a colossal [ __ ] that I think is hilarious and if bark Garth was here I'd pull that up I loved him all right and I would say come on dude what the [ __ ] were you smoking back then like who talked you into this well I you know I will say I think at the time that he did that he had to be into what in the world else can I do the only way I can become more successful is if I become someone else and make them successful yet he was so successful and still is in that space that he can't be any bigger than he is like Stephen King when he used to write as Richard Bachman do you remember that no I don't know where of this yeah he wrote a bunch of books under a pseudonym because he was so gigantic that he decided to write some books under a different name so that people would sort of appreciate the work for what it was instead of as a Stephen King book I think or just maybe even as an exercise right well I think very much that's what it is yeah you know I would look at it very much anyway of course it's kind of hard when it's your face if they should have put a mask on yes something should he got like Rick Baker to do him up what a fake nose you know yeah make him like an ugly weathered looking you know saddle worn dude put a seal wig on yeah yeah but it was they had a behind the music story on his life store and the drugs and all the problems and the moodiness and you know but the music was always there and like there's a it's a hilarious behind the behind the music you could watch it on YouTube I highly recommend it okay well I will watch it on YouTube I haven't seen that particular thing but he's pulled himself out of that hit out of giant long hiatus and here's an interesting thing about Garth Brooks you can't get his [ __ ] on iTunes oh no you have to get it on whatever his CD or whatever and there's also his personally he yeah he had something called ghost tunes for a minute I think was that the name of it mmm there was like his own curated streaming service where you stream only gross Brooks tooms or something like that I don't know huh I don't remember something about that well I think his idea is that he wants his albums played from there to his ghost tunes he wants his albums played from the first song to the last he doesn't want like little bits and chunks he doesn't sell his songs individually this is what I believe I've read that he like he thinks of his albums as like a one continuous work and will you know by as much as anybody can understand that and want you know very much people to listen to things as body's work but in the world we're living in you know sometimes you got to let people you know yeah skip over a song here let people do whatever they want right I mean you didn't roll of it yeah I don't want control people's right thing yeah and sometimes it's just a song that gets them and that song if you sell that song individually that'll get them and then maybe they'll check alright um listen to this a hundred times what else Chris got to say yeah maybe I don't know so how did you get a quote-unquote discovered as a singer you start off as a songwriter but you were always singing I was always saying I was all you know I was in bluegrass bands I was in rock bands always kind of touring you know in a pickup truck or something like that you know playing hold you I'm 39 and how many years did you do that for well I moved to Nashville when I was 23 and probably the first three years I was in town I only wrote I'm three times a day living eating sleeping breathing songwriting trying to learn how to do that you know in a way that kept me a job at a publishing company so so how does that work when you get signed by a publishing company or you get a job at a publishing company writing well you have you know it's you're a contract labor deal basically it's like you have you signed a deal with you know like you get a year and they get an option or two to pick you back up for another couple of years you know and what if one of those songs hits you know those terms worked out whether you have what percentage of publishing they have what percentage you have and they pay you a salary in exchange for you know is it a little creative uh it can be yeah it can be if you had you know if you have a bunch of songs on the on radio and so for you was you were getting by doing this well I know I've made a very comfortable living up to the point you know and I've for about and what that allowed me to go out and play bluegrass for next to no money or no play rock and roll and and have fun doing it and not worry about that being how I'm making a living you know but I've got to do it for the right reasons right and so in a lot of ways you know the songwriting thing the commerce paid for the art I guest in the home which I am a firm believer in some people were argued this is a conversation that struggle and I will have the commerce pain for the arm yeah but yeah so yeah it it was it's a great thing I'd still is I you know I still write songs for people I still write with people when they asked me to do that for because it's cool to get in somebody else's head you know or kind of sit down with them and and try to help them realize some vision of what it is they want to do and I that's still one of my favorite things to do and I'm just as interested in that as I am and doing my own thing Wow so when you learn how to write music um did you when you would write well you said do you sit down with an idea in mind with a guitar do you sit down with a pen and pad like how do you how do you write songs well if I'm writing by myself or with somebody because there's a lot of different processes it can be you know whatever comes up that day for me generally if I was gonna say hey I'm gonna sit down and go over in that corner write a song I'd have a guitar I'd probably have a legal pad and a pen much like we have sitting right here and I'd start strumming until that felt like something and how does that make me feel I don't know I'm keep starting humming a melody maybe and hopefully somewhere in humming the melody a word would pop out that or noise I would manage would turn into a word and from there you can kind of grow this thing into whatever it is supposed to be now that that's how I would do it if I was sitting around by myself now there's other times you and I could be having a conversation and you could say a phrase or a line or I could read a sign going down the road you know if you're a songwriter you're always writing songs right it's not like a choice that you have it's like a an affliction that you have in some way so you're just kind of walking around unconsciously things will hit you you know and or moments will hit you or visual or hits you and and that will spark something so that's that's really it can come from anywhere and that's and that's the truth it sounds a lot like writing comedy I'm sure I don't leak a not write comedy but I'm I would think the creative process is very much the same you know you're trying to kind of take life and distill it into something you know that evokes an emotional response do you sometimes sit down with a blank slate like you have no idea what you want to talk about a write about absolutely and that's and that's you know back to the publishing deal thing that's that was my job like we would set appointments we come in at noon and and I have an appointment with writer ABC you know we sit down and try to come up with something wow that's gotta be weird when you first work with someone for the first time it's a lot of first dates it's a long those days but you know you you find out pretty quickly how you can just kind of pretend when you're right with writers who do that a lot you can very much walk into a room and kind of throw all that you know how you doing and all that kind of used to say you just get down to it you just be like dive into it and start working on something - hey this is on my mind what do you think of this now that sucks what you know and you have to be not nice a little bit to each other and you have to and even if you don't know each other well you have to act like you do right in order to get to a spot where a song can can be something mmm and when do you ever write with no notes no guitar or no music you have absolutely there's a song that I wrote on the on the travel record that we had a couple records back traveller I'm driving down the road you know driving down through the desert on Interstate 40 you know wrote the whole thing driving and then I had to go figure out how to play it Wow so as you're driving new york did you record I had yeah I had a phone this is you know I just don't turn the voice recorder on right mm-hmm I'm hovering the phone and trying to you know my wife was asleep in the seat next to me so I'm trying not to wake my wife up I'm being real quiet oh but yeah and then you get it done and you put it away and you go listen to it later and see what happens well so in all these years how many songs do you think you've written in excess of a thousand probably somewhere like that do you have stacks of them like laying around somewhere I mean they're all catalogued you know that the publishing company I'll write for you know and they're all you know you know accounted for for the most part and I can kind of go back through them and dig in them if I need to would you do that like for an album do you think that's what I've been doing yeah yeah all the you know this record we're putting out in the last record that we have out say for a few covers they're all songs that are you know a decade old or something Wow no kidding yeah so might as well get stoned how long is that one oh god that song is it's probably one the first songs I wrote when I moved to town so I was probably 25 when I wrote that so yeah it's 13 years old something like that dude love that song I love all your songs man I'm a big fan thank you so when you are touring now are you bringing your own opening acts with you you decide and who comes out with you yeah well we and we try to pick people that we know and love and and we think you know fit musically or we would we just want to support right and you have a lot of great people out on the road with it we have Brent Cobb and Margo price and Anderson East and Marty Stewart just you know there's a lot of people that we love if you do yeah if you listen to me and Brent Cobb or an attorney so no you know I'm gonna write this down afterwards yeah it's give me some suggestions yeah you'll dig it it's it's good stuff well birds of a feather flock together and I know you type of dudes probably only like other legit type of people so I probably get some good data well yeah no we we love we love music and we like we like to support there's something about the art form of music that has always been very inspirational to me and I've always drawn upon it for like you know that Hunter has Thompson quote about music being fuel we were seeing that quote I'm not sure CV pull it's on my Instagram page from pretty recently when I was listening to Gary Clark jr. just a couple of days ago dude that guy can play yeah thank you that guy that guy's a freak he was with honey honey best way yeah and they did a version of Midnight Rider yeah here music has always been a matter of energy to me a question of fuel sentimental people call it inspiration but what they really mean is fuel I've always needed fuel I'm a serious consumer on some nights I still believe that a car but the gas needle on empty can run about 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio I like it I like music in the car myself yeah it's so it's it's uniquely inspirational like very few things and the art of music and music creation is such a I think when it's done correctly I should say is it's a very pure art form in the sense that the people that are doing it are really like digging into their creative engines and you know just getting the gears turning and pulling these things out and it represents like however much burden you have in your personality in your life you're like that can either help you or hurt you in this process and some people's music sort of represents the torment of their life and some people's music represents the purity of their vision but it's all has different effects on people and some sort of strange and bizarre way yeah I like to say that you know the songs I was talking about the effort where I was talking about this but I like songs that allow you to take ownership of them and make them personal to you does that make sense yeah and I and I like listening and I think that's probably what we all like about songs eventually is our ability to relate to them but also they've been and they become like a I come back and write a song and I can play a song on a stage but it doesn't really mean anything until somebody listens to it and then they're you know perception of what that song is about in relation to them comes back at us you know on a stage or it comes or lives in the world that way and and that's so cool to me that's the best that's the thing that makes a song complete I don't feel like they're even done until somebody listens to it and attaches to it right that's that's the thing that I love so much about songs yeah and everybody's thing is different too right it's like you can have two songs that are the exact same song but they're sung by different people and they have a completely different feeling well certain covers you listen to certain covers you just like whoa just has it it just hits you and it tells live it away yeah absolutely but and and then the other side of that is you know two different people can listen to the same version of a song and it means totally different things - yeah because they attached the pieces of their life to it in a way that is unique to them and that's that's the coolest thing in the world yeah it's interactive in sort of a weird way right yeah absolutely if it's not it's it's nothing exists what I mean by like sometimes people's music represents sort of the torment that's going on their own personal what I was thinking specifically I was Amy Winehouse like I was big Amy Winehouse fan and there's something about - great [ __ ] phenomenal there's something about that rehab song because she put that rehab song out when everyone knew she was a mess right you know and then she still you know I try to make me go to rehab I said no she made it sound happy yeah she's like [ __ ] I'm riding this thing right into the beach right I'm not stopping for the rocks right I'm hitting the throttle I'm gonna see where this goes it was tragic but yeah there's produced some some phenomenal music no doubt yeah there was something to it there was like almost a fatalistic acceptance of our own fate or something like well and we can listen to it in that perspective now that she's yeah what does anymore but you know at the time it's you know it was a lot of teenage angst yeah celebratory yeah it felt celebratory at the time on the other side of the tragedy of it it has yeah yeah for sure but I mean man if you stop and think about how many tortured souls put out unbelievable music I think it's you know to some degree some of the greats you know it's almost like a requirement that they are a little bit out there yeah you know and so which is it's a horrible thing right them but it's a beautiful thing for the rest of us you get to listen to it yeah right man it's just the just to be an artist in any form right requires all this vulnerability and just trying to try to find whatever it is when you're trying to create something where is that coming from the ether the muse it's trying to just find that thing and then when you're dealing with your own personal demons like especially the deep drug demons seem to produce some of the most insane music ever you know you think Hendrix and Kurt Cobain absolutely and you keep going down that list forever really yeah and and I have a songwriter friend who is convinced that you can't really produce something that is you know really noteworthy unless you have some kind of an addiction issues really yeah but I don't know if that's true but you know if you're saying that very thin you know I look back at you know history of rock and roll and music in general you know there's a lot of heavy drugs and a lot of you know getting out there on the edge yeah yeah has in fact produced some of the greatest music that we've ever heard you also can hear it in the music like Stevie Ray Vaughan's a great example you like hear the getting out there on the edge in the music absolutely you you hear it with every ounce of everything in it yeah it's like there's no safety net and that kind of music this it's just it's just all raw yep absolutely crazy life man it's a crazy way to make a living it is a crazy way to be super happy but you don't have to have any of those issues I don't think that you have to have an addiction issue to be great I just think you just have to pursue it yeah you know well maybe maybe the addiction is I mean there's there can be healthy addictions mm-hmm I think it's true I think everybody would look at it most people that I meet that are successful in one way or another they have at the very least kind of obsessive tendencies about something bright weather and generally it's some part of the work but yeah it's and focus I see a lot of focus like this kind of super focused thing that you see certain people you're like oh that's why he can do that yes he or she can do that they have this ability to focus yeah there's a I've always been amazed to when someone can take an instrument and make that instrument sound very specific to them like Gary Clark jr. is another good example of that like see if you can find that video that I've put up on my Instagram way back when with honey honey honey honey and Gary Clark jr. performed this really tiny place in downtown LA about maybe a year ago and they did a midnight set I like a Wednesday night or some [ __ ] and Gary Clark is up there doing the Allman Brothers Midnight Rider like listen to us and it's [Music] that's that's him you know I'm saying like that sound that's him [Music] [Applause] [Music] I mean come on he's me man that's a perfect example what I'm talking about like that is him what with it that is him but it's also everybody that's before him no you know that that and he's probably the one guy that we have in modern times that really can can carry that torch yes for the Blues and and you know all those great you know great guitar players that we don't have a lot of them left you know like I mean he can do that and and that's real kind of you know BB King approached you know just playing some real straight and line stuff but then he can he can do Hendrix and all you could be crazy in psychedelic too he can do any of that yeah and that's you know that guy shines and when you when you step on a stage with him you know it's I we played we played he and I and by rate played a BB King trip you know Grammys few years back and that was intimidating because you know and you know Bonnie Raitt's excellent in her own way you know like she has she has that thing just like he has where it's just like those people are there special people yeah yeah I agree and there's something about them that like what Hunter was saying that their fuel like I saw that and I ran home and I wrote I wrote for like three hours yeah so it just was pumped up I just I just felt like I got seen something you know I could like I just touched some new dimension he listened to a lot of Freddie King you listening if already came no oh no man you write this down I'm still writing down you got to get on Freddie King Freddie King what kind of [ __ ] is he he's blues yeah yeah yeah he's not with us anymore but oh you know there's BB King Albert King and Freddie King and I've never heard of Freddie oh well you probably seen that show eastbound and down yeah you know the same theme song at the front of that yeah that's right it came oh okay but there's I love Freddie King yeah there's a there's a there's a wealth of fuel if you want some yeah in for a king that's that's a pretty standard staple of listening for me I go if I want to turn something on and let it make me feel right Freddie Freddie King I got a John Lee Hooker problem when I start thinking about blues I just listened to Johnny hooker I've so much John Lee Hooker on my phone I have no room for other people now you got you got to get you got it's pretty king in there all right I'll get some Freddie King in there but went out when I'm tired I don't feel like working out I put boom-boom-boom on all right and whoo here we go we're off to the races it's just something about those types of songs you know that deep blues it's just got this extra special soul to it you know there's just a your ma sort of immersed in the feeling of those people you know it's it's heavy duty stuff man music is heavy duty stuff man how fortunate do you feel I'm the luckiest man in the world I say that all the time and it's true I am absolutely the luckiest Newt in the world I would imagine you feel that way yeah I mean you found it's actually true luckiest guy in the world but I'll let you slide all right well I'm top five I'm top five I think we're all the luckiest person in the world if you're actually founding your thing that you like to do yeah in you don't really work but you don't really work work well yeah I mean listen I do a lot we do a lot we've yes it's work its work in the sense of it's time-consuming yes it requires effort and focus but I'm yes but listen there's nothing else I would rather do for a living and I'm grateful and thankful every day for and because I love it well you could tell I mean it really comes out in music really good tell it's pure do you do you listen any classical classical music yeah you know I when I was a kid I used to listen to more classical music than I do now but now you know I enjoy occasionally going to the symphony you know but I haven't gone years but I do like that music it moves me in a different kind of way then listeners into freaking wood but all right here's the big question jazz jazz I do like jazz music not necessarily like super experimental jazz music that gets way way out there and like acid jazz these are like the Coltrane yeah well I just yeah and once again I am NOT a in no way and my authority on jazz but if it's on I'm I will enjoy it because I enjoy as a musician I enjoy just like I here enjoy great blues players there's so many great musicians in jazz like I had an opportunity to write some songs damn Wilson called me up one time to go write some songs for the Preservation Hall Jazz Band and so we wrote some songs I knew nothing about New Orleans jazz what's what at whatsoever and but I went down New Orleans and I participated in this and wrote these songs that now live in the jazz world so well that that really is thrilling to me to get to that thing I was telling you about where I get to go hop into somebody else's space and see if I'm helpful you know that's that's cool to me you know so now I have you know I have that that feels like a to me like that's a feather in my cap I got to go participate with those guys and they're so great every one of them do I have some friends that love that sort of collaboration thing - whether it's in music I have a good buddy of mine who writes a lot for my friend Tony Hinchcliffe writes a lot for people for for roasts and he does punch up on shows and things along those lines but he relishes that opportunity he likes collaborating likes helping people out on stuff yeah well and this gives you the opportunity to flex your mind in a way that maybe you wouldn't yeah in your own space you know right what do you do when you're not doing music that's all I do pretty much really yeah I play music and I'm and I you know I like to I have things I like to do you know I like to fish me too but I don't get to do that a whole lot bass fish what do you do I grew up on trout stream oh yeah and I where I'm not a philosopher in Kentucky but I'm not a flop fisherman but spinning tackle yeah it's been a tackle I used to use a little ultra lots been really good my summers were spent as a kid I'd be in being the creek at 5:30 you know my friend Steve Rinella was just talking to a famous writer recently in his last podcast I don't remember the Nan's name he's famous in the the fishing writing world and he's a fly fisherman and he's like he had a really interesting question he said why is so much great great literature attached to fly fishing but not to spin tackle it's a good question and I think that's the that's the I don't know it's kind of like using spin tackles like this workman it's it's it's like a blue-collar way of doing it that's my perception of and and then people who are fly fisherman and I've seen these guys in action you know use a fly rod it there's an art to it but there's an arc there's an art to using the all of it but the guys were fly fishermen take a lot more pride in the art of it yeah and then the end this and please forgive me fishermen out there if I'm if I'm misrepresenting anybody who likes to do either of these things but my perception of it is you know gasps with a it's been real and let me I just want to catch the fish right I'm not you know if it means I'm flipping it out there if it means I'm tossing it if it means I'm jig fishing with it doesn't matter I I want to figure out the way to catch the fish the fly fishermen they like the process yeah I started out with a spinning rod I actually started out with on Zebco push-button spin caster jammies and then then I went to baitcasting reel and then for bass and then when I got into trout fishing I eventually moved on to fly-fishing and learn how to tie some flies and say you're serious about it no hobby it's been a long time now when I fish I've I fish maybe once a year like on vacation yeah that's that's basically what it has for me as I you know you know I charter a guy on a boat something yeah yeah I've done it in Hawaii in Mexico and the great thing is like say if you staying at a resort either like you could rent a boat they'll take you out you catch a tuna or something like that and then you cook it and eat it for lunch and it's amazing yeah no that's great yeah that's about the extent of my fishing these days my other outdoor activities are sort of overwhelmed my fishing time but there's something about the people that get into fly-fishing that it's not just fishing one of the weird things about fly-fishing is a lot of them let the fish go there's a lot of catch and release going on with fly-fishing which yeah I mean and I'm I like that to you I mean I used to a lot of them go I get that but I'm a little I'm a little tormented on that you're putting a [ __ ] hook through something's head and you're gonna let it go like how about just not doing that if you really love the fish how about just fish with no hook at all and they bite it you know you know you would have had them that's probably fair yeah that's probably the way to go it's weird that we would be it's this weird thing that we have in our head we were trying to activate those reward systems that were there in place in order to keep ourselves fed right like if you there's a thing that happens when you catch a fish you've seen like I've seen with my little kids I've taken my daughter's fishing and when they catch a fish they have this look in their face like oh I got it I got it I got it oh yeah yeah like this is it super exciting when they pull it out of the boat and then the fact that they're gonna get to eat it later there's some weird primal DNA thing that gets activated when you catch something and I think that's what these fly fishermen that are letting the fish go or trying to do they're just little junkies for that that that feel that feeling that DNA activation that reward system thing and obviously it's difficult and obviously there's a lot of tremendous amount of skill and finesse involved and fly casting roll casting and trying to place this fly right in this little pool and drag it with the current and get that nasty trout to bite onto it but you also want to own it you want to have them and let him go like you don't want to like say I could have had you but there's no hook on the side of fly fish yeah you want to know you got it you don't want to know he bit you want to know you got it so no one goes fly fishing with no hook they go with a barbless hook and they'll catch it and then they'll let it go and I sides finds a barbless hook like okay how about I put a barbecue your [ __ ] face okay good that's not good you're trying to ruin fisherman fish for all catch-and-release fishermen I am NOT an Irish I supported 100% and I've done it I'm a hypocrite in that regard I have done some catch and release but I feel like there is a weirdness to it that it's this why yeah you're not eating it like why how about you can't just look at them no you gotta catch them catch them and I have them and then let them go but how are you gonna look at them if you don't look at them in the water here's the thing a good percentage I don't know what the number is especially when you're like salmon fishing and you're using like heavy tackle a good percentage if you catch and release and they're those fish are never gonna make it catch them with a big lure barbed hooks you get them deep in the throat you pull them out their gills are bleeding I mean that's yeah that's that's the scenario that you don't like yeah catch and in that essence most fishermen I think would know that you can't turn that fish back loose but you have to sometimes you do have to something yeah but you have to turn them loose cuz it's the law it's the regulations and you turn it loose and you watch it swim away like well the [ __ ] got about a 40% chance yeah ya know and everybody hates that yeah it's the worst but but they still want that feeling I guess a weird the catching the fish things a weird feeling apparently that's that way with butterfly catchers too because human beings used to be insectivores really yeah I was listening to this lecture once by Terence Mckenna and he was talking about that Terrence Kent McKenna the great psychedelic author and lecturer he was talking about how he was really into butterfly catching at one point in time and the odd thing is that it activates this very primal reward system in your body the same way catching a fish would that it's like because human beings used to be insectivores we used to eat a lot of insects so when you do find some rare butterfly they even after for months and months and you have the opportunity to drop in it so excited about them that's a weird sort of trophy hunting butterfly hunting too because that you're allowed to do that you could take that little [ __ ] dry them out and put them on a wall somewhere and nobody thinks you're a barbarian like people are real racist when it comes to what animals are to be dead I mean yeah pigs and cows were screwed yeah yeah pigs and cows both that me but more so bugs you know yeah oh no ya nobody likes bugs I can well I sort of I went to an ashram once and this lady who was running the ashram had a can of raid and she was talk to me about the ant problem that they have and I was like hold up see each spray he sprayed these ants with poison and she's like yeah and I go see kill the ants I go isn't that contrary to what you're teaching which is like sometimes there's just things you have to do because otherwise the ants will get in our food and okay like huh this is odd you're in an odd crossroads here lady yeah you're a Buddhist living in an ashram with a can of poison that you use for living beings you don't like being around you I have nothing but if she was like if she had like cats that she was killing with a baseball bat everybody would be mad though she'd be in jail yeah weird right yeah with weird rules sorry to take you down this world no no this is very interesting to me I didn't know that human beings you should be insectivore yeah apparently well that's one of the things that they talk about in terms of the future of protein that insects provide very complex complete proteins and they can provide it to large amounts of people fairly inexpensively and so cricket protein is very popular to hell if you know this a lot of people eat cricket protein yeah they've cricket bars and [ __ ] cricket bars yeah they make bars out of crickets yeah cricket protein bars and apparently they taste pretty good well you know my daughter ate you know they we bought like on vacation somewhere like this novelty sack of like barbecue crickets or something yeah just wanted to try and of course my son was like after he actually got another five packets you like I don't know about that but I was like I'll try it she ate it and she was like it's pretty good they're not bad was this a cricket milkshake Hey mmm yeah is that is that pre-made there's the cricket bars from the powder I think it would look more pal if they didn't have a picture of a cricket like crawling out of it yeah hide that [ __ ] so there's the there's the cricket protein powder that's crap they cooked the cricket grind those little [ __ ] up and turn it into protein powder and it's apparently has a complete amino acid profile it's easy to digest and it doesn't make people feel bad like look at that look at the the grams of protein per 100 gallons of water how much you can get for a cow you only get six grams of protein for a hundred grams of water or 100 gallons of water but for crickets you get 71 grams of protein for the same amount of water Wow so it's more than ten times the amount of protein so you could and I don't think it has near the impact on the environment in terms of like raising them they don't have like a lot of the waste products and the the issues that cows have methane I smells I this is this is amazing sorry dude I've had crickets before man I was in Mexico and they cooked them and left him in the room like in though we stayed at a hotel it was a little snack yeah a little snack thing it was a little they were like almost like a soy sauce based or some sort of a salt based chips or something yeah and they were they were fried and you just crunch them and I was like okay these are actually pretty good they're like with this they're essentially related but a lot of bugs are related to shellfish whereas like we found on fear factor that if you're allergic to shrimp you're also allergic to roaches really yeah we found that out because we made a duty roaches and and he started having an allergic reaction we had to get him a shot of adrenaline and take him to the hospital that's awful yeah that was a bad day yeah you know I guess your throat closes up on you and you start you know a lot of inflammation you start wheeze and yeah it's not fun yeah but crickets good and high in protein you're good you never eat anything weird are you like a straight-laced eater I'm pretty yeah I'm pretty straight wild game my dad was a bird hunter and a rabbit hunter growing up you know I never loved it no no it's all about how it's cooked really right yeah man I don't know if we ever got that down at my house so yeah it's it's tricky like I think if you're around a real wild game chef like there's a guy named Hank Shaw who's been on this podcast before who was a hunter who's also like a real extraordinary chef and he makes these amazing dishes with wild game and he's one of those guys is like you know you think it's bad because you haven't cooked it right let me cook it yeah I think there's a lost art to some of it yeah lesser-known art maybe where are you living right now man I live south of Nashville Tennessee so when you flew into hell today and you see like literally it's on fire for people listening at this point in time this is one of the worst fires in the history of Los Angeles it's pretty scary yeah because it's what's called a dry hurricane meaning they're those hurricane-force winds but there's no rain and the fires are going [ __ ] crazy 50,000 acres down in a day is nothing right now yeah it's violet we've been here a few days and and we were we got in two or three days ago and we've been doing some other things TV things whatever but waking up to that on the news is not a not a fun thing to watch and I'm so heartbroken for everybody losing their homes and it's it's pretty tragic awful thing to have to watch yeah it certainly is you know it's the side effect of living in a place that doesn't have any weather you know there you go everything dries out it so rarely rains here you know it's and when you get like these crazy winds the Santa Ana winds that happen every year just this is extraordinary the winds here and just perfect time for fires August so somebody kicking these things up or what's what's the deal really no one knows you know one that could be arson yeah it could be it feels like that could be look there's some sick [ __ ] out there and they know that the wind is a bad thing for fire and yeah all the sudden the fire shows up it's entirely possible that of 20 million people there's one or two people that are either [ __ ] mind that's yeah that's way out there is that what you were thinking I don't know I just watch it I'm just like I mean how does the fire spontaneously start you know that yeah in these Cano yeah well you're probably right I mean that's one of the suspicions is that it's arson related or this is several fires one of them that's we're saying there's so many you know on at this point I'm just like somebody running around like thinking I don't know that's it I wanted her well yeah they happen simultaneously yeah all during the same crazy conditions and they happen like way far apart from each other so you talked to firefighters about it and they're like there's a lot of times we don't know but there's a lot of times some serious suspicions yeah you know it's just it's unfortunate you never to think about that I mean think about all these human beings and there's one or two or however whatever the number is they're so tortured and says so in pain and so [ __ ] up they're the wires yeah I don't get it and I hope that's not the case but I but I watched all these guys on the news you know up on the roofs trying to save their property or you know firefighters put themselves in harm's way or guys flying helicopters dumping water in zero visibility conditions and it's like man it's just it's awful it is awful you know it's the round this time of year you really appreciate firefighters absolutely yeah and I think a lot of people take them for granted most of the time until you need them they're like there are superheroes that only get credit when they do some [ __ ] right you know and when they do do some [ __ ] you realize like oh with without them like I talked to a firefighter wants to freak me the [ __ ] out he was saying it's just a matter of time - one day with the right winds there's a fire that burns all the way to the ocean just goes right through LA and there's nothing we can do about it and I was like what he's like it's a matter of time he goes everybody thinks it it's just a matter of catching the right fire and then you realized today you're like oh he's right like oh yeah Bel Air is on fire yeah we're all the rich people it that's on fire ya know it's like I said we it's like live on the news we're watching it in the hotel room you know it's just pretty hard cool yeah yeah I mean we changed our route to get over here today just together cuz there's road closures and like that did it take you more time I think we gave ourselves like an hour hour and 20 minutes hour and a half together what else you got going on right now we did a few TV things and we're kind of winding down for the year and then we'll keep back up in a january get the crannies in January I guess and then kind of slowly get back into it but my wife's pregnant with twins so we're trying to know well congratulations thank you you know have sort of a in sync with me pretty much all the time so we're trying to figure out the new reality of that you know right we have two kids out with us but now we're going to four so it's how old your kids there are eight and seven so do you bring a tutor on the road with you how do you do my mother-in-law is retired second grade school teachers convenient yeah so we so we homeschool our children on the road and they but they get you know when they study the Boston Tea Party they get to go look at all the stuff in Boston you know Wow you know it's a it's a it's a different kind of education but it they're things like that kind of live in brief for them a little bit more than than what I got growing up and hopefully someday they'll appreciate that oh I'm sure they will I mean it's got to be interesting to them to to see their dad go from being a singer/songwriter it's all sudden being a celebrity singer how they realize that I don't know I think to them they're young enough and you know that just seems like oh that's yeah mom did have to go sing a show you know it's just what they did yeah where your mom and dad gonna go saying you know my mom makes houses yeah she doesn't say yeah they don't they don't have real they don't have anything else to compare to right that's one reference blood look for so it's just kind of that's just kind of what life is to them when you tour I how long do you go or how much of a stretch well we very rarely try to I mean we try to be wicking warriors as much as we can and do you know Thursday Friday Saturday runs but you know some things logistically that doesn't make any sense if you're gonna run across Canada or we're you know based in Nashville so if we want to run the West Coast we're out here for a couple weeks or something like that but never longer than that you know we never trust out we're not very rock and roll about it and we don't live out there and don't want to you know so I love to play shows there's a limit on how many I can sing and in a week it's three stand limit so we stick with that and try to make that have it has much kind of home time and so all the guys in the band the crew and you know everybody's got kids and families and things and so it's a hard it's a hard way to make a living if if you're always going like yeah like months and months and months calm which that's a lot of that's that's the rock and roll way of doing things a lot yeah I know Sturgill how to do that for like that for a while he didn't have to he chose to chose to yeah I convinced I had to convince him to that but you had to convince him of that that he didn't have to yeah I don't well he only he convinces himself if anything I'm not gonna say that I know what you're saying but you but influenced him well I'm not even gonna say I'm from Stan but I would tell you Justin I would tell him hey man you don't have to why are you doing this okay so he felt like what I think all his years of working regular jobs you know working on the railroad and you know all the [ __ ] that he had to do when success came he was like Jesus Christ I got to keep this fire going oh absolutely well and get the king of kindlin you know well yeah but absolutely you had this moment you know when you have a little something going on when you're like well I gotta you know make hay while the Sun shines you understand that yeah wholeheartedly but you know we're all human beings and we all have limits yeah do you have a limit of the amount of days that you get saying in a week yeah three that's it that's it and then your voice starts to get strained yeah that's I mean that's I think pretty hard too you know so yeah that's that's that's the end you know and I and I have you know conversations with other singers when I run into as I have how many shows can you play in a week and you know some guys it's to some day some guys it's like I can place you every day of the week Wow and the but that's not me through three shows it's kind of you ever have a greedy mcmoney bags agent it's like listen Chris before shows a week 25% more mine just one more show anybody I work with greedy big moneybags Christopher hmm two shows a night not a big deal but certain certainly you know certainly everybody you know everybody wants you know as you work with and that's their job is to try to maximize what what you're able to do monetarily and and you know sometimes you have a look at me go sorry I can't do that so ultimately you're not physically not yet not physically possible yeah and then they have to deal with in those parameters and and figure out how to maximize that does every country music singer have to live around Nashville's I like requisite um I don't it seems like it's a giant collection to you [ __ ] this one spot well I mean that is the kind of hub for you know like actors living in LA right it's like New York whatever whatever wherever that I think it's LA if you want to if you want to be in a certain industry it helps you know must wind it must be present to win you know yeah to some degree you know do you feel that that place has a certain energy to it as well though it does have energy to it and it has had an interview to it and it's a very changing energy at the moment I don't live in Nashville proper anymore but I did for years but it's it's a different place you know and it's not just a it's a music place but there's so much else going on there's 19 or 20 cranes building condos downtown you know it's what's going on in Nashville they just I don't know there's a everybody wants to buy a condo I guess I don't understand it but yeah it's there's an influx of people who all of a sudden think it's a good idea to move to Nashville yeah well that's what I had heard I'd heard that it's it's almost becoming like LAF I'd a little bit I don't know what that means but if that if that means that there's a lot of condo building chicks with lips like this I mean I really doc I'll be honest I don't I don't I don't run around and I I go into Nashville when I have to go into Nashville for certain for supplies yeah for supplies and then I parked myself in the out in the country so that's where you live live that's nice gotta spread yeah we have a little bit of land and wildlife animals oh yeah none of those bobcats and turkeys and oh that's nice dear you name it yeah what I've heard about Nashville is that Nashville started out as sort of this pure sort of music environment and then over time it became a money grab and people realized that it's a music environment and they said how do we capitalize on this and then people said oh I heard this is a music environment I'm gonna move there and then it became like a place to be to be seen and that it's it still got the music there but it's it's also like weirdly compromised so it makes sense no more than anywhere else I mean I write is that human nature I don't want to say it sounds very like anti you know any any corporate involvement of anything to say that it's been tainted or it's all a money grab or something I don't think it's all I know that's definitely not saying that I love Nashville by the way okay well no I do too but I'm just trying to wrap my head around the relayed opinion of or was that your opinion no no that's other people that I know people that have lived there and then moved back got you yeah just people that had this romantic notion of I want to go there and this is like sort of country-ish city where everybody's soulful they're all singing songs and it's just you'd go down and see all these amateur bands or these bands of just starting out and they're amazing yeah I don't think that that's really that that's some kind of Mayberry version of what Nashville is I mean that's Narnia yeah that's that's I think that's some kind of unicorn that you're inventing in your mind if you think that that's any challenge you're going to you like that right it's like I don't know I don't know if the equivalent would be but feeling like you moved to some island somewhere and everybody walked friend and has yachts and you know just right just drink martinis all day or whatever you know it's just like that's that's not even true well this like places that you're supposed to go to like when I was in Boston when I first started out doing stand-up I had heard about the Comedy Store that was like the mecca right you had to get to the Comedy Store in Hollywood I was like spoken with hushed tones and everybody sort of st. came to that place as I could drew everybody in from across the country and from my friends like honey honey and other people that I know that lived in Nashville for a while that was Nashville was kind of that to them it's like what it was is like this kind of place where you'd seen and heard so much amazing music has come out of that part of the world and it's so music centered you know I mean it just it has a different vibe because it's a very art it's a very artistic city and absolutely yeah but but there's there's also a there's a side to it now and and it's been the last five M sorry Nashville if you feel like I'm talking about you but it's there's a thing now where you go downtown and it's it's more like you're going to a giant bachelorette party or something you know it's just like everybody's I don't know just looking to get drink their face off and and listen to bad cover so I'm saying like okay you're being honest but it's you know and it's great for the city in a lot of ways tourism wise and and right monetarily and all those things but it also it changes that whatever some notions of that romantic thing that you're talking about those things still exist but they're there they have to be like a lot of things that have sold they need to be sought out right like the difference between a real old-school barbecue joint and TGI Fridays I have nothing as TGI Fridays know what you mean I know what you mean - I see you laughing at me like backpedaling all this no no no no no don't force the end of this I don't mean to I just we're just I'm just talking about well my point about all of it really is the idea of artistic integrity is a fleeting thing in and a sacred thing and a critical thing for a guy like you to create the kind of music that you make and I'm always interested like how someone cultivates that how someone protects that because I think it's it's what goes away it's when when things go off the rails it's usually the focus away from the creative aspect of it the art the making the thing that you loved in the beginning when you got into this thing right you know and sometimes people get it happens comedians in a big way they get movies and they become famous and then they believe their own [ __ ] and they put out these specials that are terrible it's it's real easy to fall into sure and yeah and you know but there's also you know there's a there's a side of that I would I would argue that maybe that is what's in their heart at that moment and that's just as real as anything else you know mm-hmm but I would argue that it's they're in the wrong environment well that's been surrounded by the wrong people with the wrong influences and the wrong focus okay yeah I mean I I'll go with that if you if but everybody's gonna evolve in one way or another yeah right and and and everybody's gonna have these high points and low points of what they really were in the zone so to speak or not in the zone yeah creatively I think that that is that's just life yeah but I you know I don't know I it's long for me if there's a way to try to preserve some notion of integrity it's just that thing I said earlier it's just like if you let all the other stuff just put the blinders on and go alright Here I am here here are the guys that I play music with and then the girls we're gonna sit in the round what are we gonna do what would we do if none of this other stuff existed and that's and that's that's the way you keep it where it should be right as you keep it brought in them in a moment and right in the room and don't let some some notion of trying to outdo yourself or out sell yourself or you know make more money than the other guy or have a number one over top the other guy or you know because all that kind of stuffs manufactured to like number ones and right those are just numbers that and some of them are so tainted by people just doing things that that manufacture that number that they want to have that it doesn't it's not even a real thing at that point right I don't know well I always felt weird about contests and things that any sort of like ranking system that involves art okay so your way anti any kind of award well I just think that like the Oscars and the Grammys and all that kind of [ __ ] like that like I don't give a [ __ ] who you think is great I don't think I don't care who you think is the great at number one like the number here's the and the winner is open the envelope oh my god is it gonna get it like the work is the work the work is done like it's if it's Apocalypse Now is a great [ __ ] movie it doesn't matter what you give them a gold statue or not like what's the work the work is great for it to win a thing or not win a thing you know and some of the things that have one you can tell that the win is tainted by the political climate that the people are like leaning towards something that's socially aware and con so somebody made a movie with lesbians to save the planet from you know I mean it's like that kind of [ __ ] becomes like transparent and obvious and you can do that and rig the system and win an award I think that awards for art or goofy Awards for comedy or super every comedy competition I've ever seen they're super goofy it's just it's missing the whole idea of the thing the whole idea the thing is supposed to be the art it's not supposed to be trying to win an award no it's not and and but you know if you meant an award out of that and it allows you to make more art and it makes people pay attention to the are so so be it yeah it's sort of a bastardization that's always felt like about that there was a show call Last Comic Standing and the good thing about it was that it got a lot of comics that people hadn't heard of and they put him on television didn't help their career but the bad thing was that they're doing like a contest and like who's the audience clap for more do you want Mike yeah what about Debbie that's [ __ ] weird it's weird okay we have a lot of those shows yes there's not as many anymore a lot from the singing right I'm saying people who don't like to watch those shows yeah because people also like the idea that you can be one thing one minute and one moment on television can make you some other totally different person he believed that like that's why Susan Boyle was so famous right yes we saw this woman everybody was doubting her she goes out there and she's got pipes and she belts that song out and to see Simon who's just a douche bag it was like holy [ __ ] she's amazing like you could see it like you undeniable right now those were good moments though yes those were good moments those are the best moments the other good moments are like when they have American Idol they have those people that have no business being there and they play their auditions too those are the other good moments for the wrong reasons right yes but you know if you're watching that show that you're watching it for that too right is there a good show to introduce people to country music like you know these two have there used to be like shows where people could you know yeah we used to have you know like Nashville downs yeah a like I don't think that really exists anymore like like a country music specific show yeah no I don't think really have that anymore like a variety show like Johnny Cash show yeah sure yeah that no we don't have that anymore and I don't know how much people want that anymore you know otherwise it might exist oh man just do it you know maybe maybe there's not the right person to do it I don't know I just think someone needs to make it I feel like there's so much what you telling me about all these artists I got to go look into and I'm sure there's a bunch that are coming up that are probably equally talented and you know maybe they just need an opportunity like that like something like along those lines some sort of a show a variety show or really talented people can come on show their songs but it'd be good well the closest thing to that right now you've seen this Mike judge show the like judged the guy from yeah yeah yeah yeah it's tales from the tour bus or something no what is that he'd say he talks to all these old school like Texas country acts or like Olson it's all these all the folklore of country music and these and he doesn't like interview style and they're all telling these stories latest trailer oh man here the Machine up a demo next door with false teeth I knew they'd say [ __ ] and I didn't wanna be in the land of fact so they would tell stories and then they animate them yeah well this is but all these guys that you see animated these are the real guys that lived a lot of these things I'm telling these stories this is these are not made-up characters or any in any way and and I know some of the guys that wind up being animated on these things and and I have for years said you know if even half of the folklore that exists in country music could be told it would be the it would be the biggest thing in the world you know and that's what he's doing right now with that show and he's doing an actual job and it's really for me and maybe it's not as entertaining to other people I don't know but for me as a musician no one knowing some of the folklore and and and knowing how many great characters and storytellers exists in country music and have existed it's so refreshing to see these guys get stories told about them that's awesome I didn't even know Mike judges a country music fan I didn't either but I got to tell you he's knocking it out of the park as far as I'm concerned with this with this with this TV show I hope it does really well I'm so glad you brought this up yeah it looks little arias it's it's awesome and I and I don't say that about much I don't really like get super pumped up about a lot do you watch other [ __ ] yeah you know I like a lot of I like I mean some pretty obvious things like Game of Thrones and Walking Dead I'm into that I like you know I like kind of science fiction based things and you know I like but I like I like things that are done well whatever it is and I think both of those are done well so do you binge watch TV shows absolutely that's all the way I can watch the TV show you know because half the time I'm doing something when when it actually comes on right right all right so when you look at yourself right now and you look at all this cool [ __ ] that you're doing do you hope that just keep doing it this way do you have some grand plans we far surpass any grand plan that I might have had like years ago so I I'm hopeful that we get to continue to do some cool things and and have fun doing it and you know I'm I'm I'm at that age where you know I'm just old enough not to be stupid with what we're doing and right and hopefully young enough to really get to keep doing it for a little while and I you know I I don't know man I I'm grateful for anything that we've gotten to do and we'll get to do it in the future and and hopefully the next few years will just be a continuation of that that's all you could ask for man I mean if you're what what you're doing now is so awesome and so much fun yeah I can't I can't imagine if I if I could like write a script for how you know this is how the the curve of I want my career of putting records out to go I couldn't I couldn't write it any better for me you know and and I get to do I have freedom to do basically whatever I want and and play however I want and saying about whatever I want and and and that's it's it's the it's the greatest thing in the world do you get young guys coming up to your young girls coming up to you that have dreams of being a singer-songwriter sure ask you for advice yeah my advice is always just be nice you know be nice be nice yeah really yeah well I think that's you know I think that's always easier than making too many enemies or you know and you know you'll inevitably have people that don't believe in what you do or things that's just right that's all that subjective thing of course yeah yeah being nice is important but also being you be you and be nice you know and if you do those two things I think that's the best recipe to hopefully for you to put yourself in the position to get lucky is this something that you had to figure out yourself yeah yeah I mean yeah but you know when you start and I don't know how it works from your and what you do when you start and when you get your first little you know I get a publishing deal and then you get to be around some of what an industry is and and then you slowly but surely get to meet people who are successful in different facets of it and I think what I find is the people that I that I gravitate towards and that I really respect and and look at and go hey I career like that would be nice you know they're very nice you know caring giving individuals who who support younger artists and they you know they do nice things for their communities and they do not think for people out in the world and they make music that's in their heart and those are the those are the things that I think are are good to aspire to as a musician and and those are the things that respect I respect I respect that yeah a whole lot not just talented but nice yeah yeah now what about like work ethic did you have people asking questions about like how do you motivate yourself or how do you how do you sit down and write and how do you like what's your process all you do is like what is my advice to them well I say write you know write as much as you can with as many people as you can find you know what they're doing and that's that's how you learn how to write songs but I you know I'll also say you should have a songwriter friend who said you know you can't you can't learn how to be a songwriter you can learn how to write better songs more often but it's not you know it's like and I and I'm forgive me this is a wrong analogy but I don't think you can really learn how to be funny I mean I used to think that I used to think that because I used to think now you're the funny you're not funny and then I realized like oh some people need to learn how to be comfortable enough to be funny then yeah I've met people that sucked and then they got good really like really good that's that's well I'm giving them wrong advice then because I'm not personally are I personally think like some of it has to be innate and then you have to learn how to sharpen that to a little bit well I think whoever you are can change and I think if you are in a position where you are incapable of writing songs or incapable of being funny or incapable writing books or doing paintings whatever it is it's because of whoever you are right now but that doesn't mean and whoever you are right now is who you're gonna be five years from now or whatever I think if you can go through enough personal growth and enough introspective thinking and objective realization of your environment and then the way you interface with people slowly but surely changes and evolves and matures your art will your your expression will because you're not who you were you know you're not who you were five years ago you know who you were ten years ago okay okay this is my thought I mean it doesn't I don't think it works without everybody there's some people that just aren't [ __ ] funny don't get me wrong but I used to think that there was just if you sucked in the beginning you're gonna suck and then I met some people there has to be some you know smart elements parkour Drive you know like I think if would you say that if the person that was trying to be funny was not funny at first they at least knew that they weren't funny and had to get better at it no no sometimes they think they're funny and then they become funny it's like this it's I used to think that there was much more of a clear defined pattern than I think now but I think it's about being clueless I think cluelessness is the enemy of any real anything you're gonna make that's gonna have a real impact on people if you're if you're clueless you don't see how people perceive you if you're not aware of how they're taking you in when you're communicating with them your art is gonna suck like you don't have a connection with them you know have a connection with people you never connection with yourself I think unless there's some sort of a solitary thing that you do like maybe maybe sculpting or painting like give you a madman is like totally like in your own world and create some crazy art form that someone can come along and look at and go wow you know anything were you interacting with people I think there's a big part of that interaction is the way you look through other people's eyes and the way they take in what you're saying not just what you want to get out but also your recognition some sort whether peripherally or whether it's obviously your your realization of how they're perceiving your thoughts and ideas and what what vehicle you're delivering these ideas in is it clunky and too loud or do you have the same thought and make it smooth and comments and sinking into people with the right words and the right cadence and the right you can have the same ideas but they just they need a better vehicle to get through and I think cluelessness prevents you from objectively analyzing your own work got you so self-awareness yeah self-awareness is a really important part and brutal honesty you know with yourself yeah okay I'll go with that yeah I mean you must have that with songs right like give songs we you you you right and then you go back and what the [ __ ] is this absolutely absolutely you know but you also have songs where you know you're right every day you write a song and you get done you don't get to the end of the day without thinking that you did something good right but it's only on you know you got to get away from it a little bit and then like real issen to it or reexamine it and go or hey you know so I don't think it's easy to feel like you're a genius in the moment right as a songwriter especially we got a couple of drinks yeah absolutely do you like how much of the stuff that you actually write becomes a song that you publish like like say if you're if you're writing like how many of the the days spent do you does it actually come out to be like a full song around a song in three hours really but you can also not represent in three hours right yeah if I don't want to I'm like are you asking if there's like a schedule no no no I mean like how much of it like really really connects with you like I'm sure you must be sitting sometimes you sit down and in on the first draft you just [ __ ] nail it right I got an in so yeah every time no but I'm just trying to see if there's parallels between Coty's comedy is probably 10 to 110 things I write are [ __ ] and one thing my hmm might be something there yeah I think I think if you're doing if you're doing you know if you're doing 10% of what you do is is work that you deem good enough to put out into the world and I think you're probably doing pretty good I mean I think that's that's a pretty good average of things that are worth something you know you hope for better but that if you're doing that I think that's doing your job but you got to go I also believe you got to go through some of the ones that aren't there just to kind of flush them out right right you have to get the you have to get that out otherwise they it's stuck there and it's gonna mess with everything else you're doing just just you know if there's something on your mind to work on work on it to the end make it the best you can make it then look at it and go hey was this really something I should have worked on right yes or no and then just then you can push it out and kind of move on I think that's important to kind of flush out your your mind that way creatively do you ever come back to your stuff like sort of almost like like come back to it when you haven't thought about it and forever and look at it with fresh eyes like almost like you're collaborating with somebody else no no I'm very much the guy who believes like the first instinct is probably the correct one most of the time interesting I don't like to go back and edit and edit and edit it's not me really yeah so when you write a song right a song we're gonna watch wow that's interesting does everybody do it that way no no not at all there are guys who will take a whole year to write one song really and I can't write with those guys I respect them but I I don't have that kind of patience I don't and they've written some songs that I think are fantastic and I really do appreciate them but I am completely impatient writing songs I feel like you know my favorite songs were ones that just kind of fall down out of the sky in a bolt of lightning and you write it in about ten minutes and you're like that's exactly what was supposed to be right great I'm done I'm gonna go eat a sandwich right how much you should be right under the influence of something I don't like that really do it really to do that no well I mean I'm gonna have a sip of bourbon or something but you know it's I don't like that that much because I like I like the clarity there's a you know that some guys can't do it without it right and some guys it's it's like that makes them all of a sudden turn into the Michael Jordan of songwriting you know but it just that's for me and if I'm going to do something like that I that's it's recreational and I'm gonna go you know eat a bunch of chips and watch a movie or something I'm not gonna I'm not gonna get any real not much worthwhile it's gonna come out of that for me yeah that's interesting thing that people have this different approach to essentially what's an open-ended creative Avenue you know like creating a song that's like it's a blank sheet of paper and write your your idea and so many different people have different approaches to how to how to make that thing come out of their head yeah well and I'm not saying that I haven't tried many different ways but yeah I find you know for me the process that clarity works better than then then trying to alter myself to get to some other plane mm yeah maybe there's another plane I don't know about but I've never been there right I would want like George Carlin had an interesting way the real comedy he would write comedy sober and then he would smoke a joint punch it up yeah so he'd write the initial ideas you'd write it all out write out the bit and then they did okay let's look at this thing again and then well I mean I think that probably works in comedy yeah yeah I've started adopting that there's used to write almost all hi yeah and now I write 50% hi 50% sober and then I punch up high huh okay yeah but not too high and punch up as a comedic term for editing yeah pretty much yeah it depends on some styles of writing some guys right in bit form like they say so the other day I walked and they write it out like right other guys would just like say clocks like the idea of clocks like the arbitrary decision that we all made that there's you know these little numbers around this dial of this it's a minute is this amount of time and you just start writing all these different things out of that you might write a whole essay and that you might have one paragraph it makes sense like one quick one liner about time you know maybe it's an answer to a pretentious friend it's like there is new time and right yeah well if you [ __ ] show up late you get fired it's time for you get a new job like that could be a way where you could take time you know and just take like this big essay on it and you would extract an idea that could eventually be humor onstage but everybody's got a different style that yeah you know that's a lot of thinking [ __ ] man it's all a lot of thinking right that's why I always love talking to people that do something completely different than me like you yes I always want to know like okay how does a guy who writes books do this how does a guy who writes songs do this how does a guy who makes movies do this right you know because it seems like it's a lot of the same muscles but then in talking here I'm not sure that the processes are exactly I don't know that they always translate I mean I think the focus is the same it's like your whatever you your end goal is whatever you're trying to create it's all about showing up and doing that work and staring at it and trying to figure it out and then for for comedy it's a lot about getting in front of the crowds you got to work a lot if you don't work a lot it's not gonna work just won't you have to be out there you can't just create comedy on your own whereas I think you with a bunch of like talented musicians you could probably develop the [ __ ] jam and record before anybody ever got a chance to see it and that's what that's what you do yeah yeah it's clearly a different style of creation although we did you know we do try things out on the road you know like and you kind of get a feel for sometimes that way so yeah we do what we do to some of that absolutely but probably not as much as what you're talking about yeah I think it's a different art form right do you ever have do you ever do things specifically with the intention of getting material out of it like like in life yeah like go do something like like maybe if I go do this I'll I'll you know figure out I'll get some songs out of this or something you know I don't know that I ever specifically do something to get material a lot of it but I do do things because something comes up and I go that sounds so weird I'm gonna go do that and then from that and then from that either good things happen or I have a story that yeah sounds like it's fake that might be the best way to do it right to just live a happy fulfilled life and mine that happy fulfilled life for ideas rather than chase interesting things with a specific intention of turning them into creativity yeah no I don't think I would do that but I definitely I go do things that might make me uncomfortable or you know put myself in situations where like this sounds like the weirdest thing out of what what you know the case in point and that turned out to being a you know we're now good friends but you know the first time I ever met several Lake Jackson Timberland yeah I got a call to basically play at his birthday party his wife called me and this is no live like he'd seen a YouTube video or something and said hey would you come play it I thought I was getting pumped and I was just and I was just like and the conversation went and his wife Jessie was she was like yeah I'm you know there's not a lot of things that he's done a lot of things it's hard for me to find new experiences for him and so I was wondering if you would like to come play at his birthday party so I'm thinking and so this is what you came up with you know you write this this dude he saw a YouTube video on get him to come played his birthday party and it turned out to be fine and we hung out you know and but you know on paper to me it was just like this is really strange I don't know that this I don't know what's gonna happen right but out of that we we've become friends and and you know done things together and and and good things have come out of it you know but there was no intent out of it other than it then I thought it would be interesting to go do and and so I went and and hung out and it turned out to be great and and we're good friends now and that's pretty badass yeah remember that but that's how we make you you too yeah there we are and I was literally his birthday present one year so that's wild man that's pretty cool yeah I think that might be the the formula just if you can just do things that you find interesting and just have those as being like excellent side side adventures in your life right and you know nobody else has to understand it but you and that's that's the cool part about it you know people used to get out to me you know I used to be a bluegrass band and I'm like why are you it's been a time being a bluegrass man well I'd have been in that bluegrass band I got a cut on Adele right so that that who would have thought that that was the a plus B equals C formula for that right go be in a bluegrass band and you'll get a pop cut on the biggest pop star isn't that funny though that someone say hey why do you want to be in a bluegrass band well they wouldn't say hey why do you like going fishing yeah I don't know yeah that's if you like it yeah I like it yeah it was why do you like bowling right it's interesting to me I'm gonna I'm gonna follow follow that road until it ends or takes a curve or runs off a cliff do you do anything specifically to try to enrich your mind do you read a lot or anything I'm not a huge reader I do play a lot of I just I just play a lot of guitar I think that's my thing that I really kind of internalize on like almost like a meditation yes absolutely if I'm if I'm feeling bad or in a bad headspace I'm gonna pick up a guitar if I'm you know that's that's what I do that that is that's if there's a centering thing I'm gonna pick up a guitar to get there for me and I don't know I don't know if that's mind if that's flexing your mind a little bit but it is something but I'll you know playing the guitar one of those things where you never think that you're ever getting any better at it until one day you wake up and you understand something that you didn't understand and hadn't understood for the ten years you've been trying to understand it and then all of a sudden you have this new you know new space to live in on it and and then it's and it's the coolest thing in the world to me whoa I know what you're saying but I don't know it's like I owe everyone out ya know like you hit a new level like like you're working out and you're working out and you're working on you work out for ten years and you never just get you hit this point where they like are this is the peak of what I have and then someday for some unknown reason your body or something it makes sense and all of a sudden you could do something you could never do before and that's that's what planet-- guitar is I do I kind of understand the space you're talking about and I think that applies to a lot of different things you know is this movie much miyamoto musashi quote that I like I use all the time once you understand the way broadly you see it in all things and that this this place that you're talking about like these new level places like that exists in martial arts that exists in comedy it exists in writing and exists in I'm sure it exists in music although I own two music rancis I think this thing of this Zen samurai thing you're talking about it just like this constant focus until you reach some new understanding of the thing and you don't even know how you're getting there but you but you're but you're working towards something that you don't know what it is until you get there yeah and then you get it and you have this new piece of knowledge or it's a piece of you know and it's a new all of a sudden you're something new too and and maybe that's the thing you were talking about earlier about people who suck accommodation all of a sudden they're yeah you know like that's you know that's what I get off on is finding finding that you know and and and I don't claim to be you know I'm not like I don't belong and you know Gary Clark jr. world or anything like that but I do love guitar enough to know that I'm always playing enough to try to find that new space to live and that's the coolest thing in the world of me because I I'll never get to whatever there's never an end to it right right yeah there's no perfection there's no perfection there's no there's never into it's just constantly trying to get better at doing what you do or being you that's trying to make yourself better yeah and that thing seems to manifest itself more with with a singular focus like guitar yeah oh yeah you have to be like way obsessed with one thing yeah and that and that's it for me for the most part christine boutin you're a bad [ __ ] thank you for coming on the show man I really appreciate ya know I've been a real jewel it's a real honor man thank you go buy a [ __ ] folks it's [ __ ] awesome all right we'll see you tomorrow bye [Music] [Applause] [Music]

Channel: PowerfulJRE

Views: 1,721,210

Rating: 4.8151293 out of 5

Keywords: Joe Rogan Experience, podcast, JRE #1049, 1049, Chris Stalpleton, Joe Rogan, Tennessee Whiskey, comedy, comedian, jokes, stand up, funny, music, country music, guitar, blues

Id: 26JaoS-zbz8

Length: 96min 0sec (5760 seconds)

Published: Wed Dec 06 2017

Reddit Comments

[u/assdog69]

this one was decent but the ones where he has sturgill simpson and shooter jennings on are better. the ones with wheeler walker are some of the best joe has ever put out.