Jim Stoppani On Intermittent Fasting for Muscle Gains

yes again his kettlebells so can we delve into intermittent fasting we had a really unsure and I'll Jim I'll let you go ahead and kind of just tell us how you got around to this no really quick he was studying it back in 2000 right yeah right and you all started doing it yeah but I've only really started doing it myself because my main concern was was muscle mass with the fasting you know yeah and that's something I want to address cuz I feel like that's why most gym people won't go and for example I don't think I know one professional bodybuilder who uses interment fast and when you consider these guys have to maintain regardless of what they're using to maintain that muscle mass to maintain that muscle mass their eating pattern there's no way they could maintain its force feeding more yeah so when you look at it from that standpoint anybody who's interested in muscle is like yeah I don't want to go Manny Pina I don't want to make it through I'm gonna wake up in the middle a night and eat you know what I mean I mean shake by the barre you know I recommend casein protein before bed so that you have you know a trickling effect of amino acids to the night so you're essentially not fasting so we've been talking about how to stay in a fed state almost you know what I mean for anabolic reasons and so that's really why I avoided doing it personally I knew the benefits for fat loss and what the benefits are in the lab is what we've shown is that most people think when you starve your metabolism slows down and it does but that's with long-term right you know where you're not like refeeding and you know you're dropping carbs long-term calories or carbs for a long period so if you're starving yourself for long yes your metabolisms going to stop if you're if you're fasting and feeding what happens is during the fasting period your your body produces more of these uncoupling proteins and what uncoupling proteins are is they basically poke holes mitochondria the mitochondria are our energy factories and muscle cells it's where fat and carbs get turned into ATP it makes energy so these uncoupling proteins literally poke holes and the mitochondrion change the concentration gradient so you produce less energy more heat it's like a car engine right produces heat and work right the more work it puts out on the less heat the more efficient it is during the fasting period and so during the fasting period what happens is you put out more heat rice energy meaning you got to burn more fat and carbs now just to sit here yeah you become inefficient starting it like what are we talking about like eight hours if I mean you know it's it's it's hard this it was more like a chronic right sort of overtime you might ask it's a custom but what we do find acutely is that the meal that you follow the fast with is important when the meal was followed with him when the fast sorry when the fast was followed with a high-protein meal mm-hmm the production of those uncoupling proteins I had a another bump after the fasting when it was a high carb meal the uncoupling proteins were blunted but they were still maintained higher than someone who's not mm-hmm fasting just why you eat all these bears so well the way I do it is you know I typically eat it for what's wrong and then I train in my feeding window I train you know that way I you know I have more energy I can recover better so better performance better recovery during your you're feeding windows so at four o'clock my first meal is pro gym I have a protein shake that's it and then I train so I train with just protein and pre gym I don't have carbs till after the workouts over how conscious you know a good hour right or so and so in the days where I might train like let's say train at 10:00 p.m. and I break my fast at 4:00 I'll still have just a protein shake or it'll be eggs or the state you know it'll Insalaco fat there'll be no carbs and it's no calories the rest of the time or is that just drastically reduced calories prior to four o'clock no Cal no calories no none whatsoever so that's black car you can drink fluid water black I typically go with black coffee or unsweetened tea once in a while I might have like a Coke Zero daya do but I don't like to do the artificial sweetener because one of my concerns is is that fasting is really a state of the brain not just a body and so you're literally tricking your body that you're fasting right well there's ways to trick your body that you're fed Luci for example the molecule leucine the receptor that attaches to your herd of mTOR or leucine right you know it that's why that whole pathway that's also involved in the brain but it's involved to tell the brain that the body is in a fed state because leucine is the most anabolic amino acid so if you have plenty leucine in your blood mm-hmm you might as well be fed basically so all these people who who do Bridge in amino acids which is a lot of fasting they say they're truly not oh no truly not fasting because they're telling the brain you're in the fed state now they're fasting in the fact that they're not really consuming any calorie so they're still getting benefits but you'll get better benefits if you void the leucine and so in one of my theories with the sweeteners the artificial sweeteners is you know there's some data that shows when the tongue tastes that's sweetener you know those receptors tell the brain hey sugar right it tricks the brain that's what artificial sweeteners do and and in some cases it's been shown to enhance insulin release more so in animals then but I'm still concerned that that sweet taste is telling the brain hey we're getting sugar even though you're not so the last thing you want to do is trick your brain into thinking it's in a fed State accidentally you know by sipping like a sweets diet even though it's no calories that sweetness might might signal the brain hey we've got plenty of sugar right meaning we don't have to use ketone bodies any longer we can switch over start you know increasing glycolysis you know let's change up the fuel sources that were using mm-hmm so it's speaking of the mental part of it and the brain you hear people talk a lot about how it feels mentally when they're fasting they feel like it's almost an enhanced state of clarity yeah you know what's interesting raised at the beginning you go like all I can't think okay so lethargic then about two weeks after you're like oh my god sometimes for cut rules what I have to force myself to eat yeah you forget you start rolling on it I forget I don't I don't want to eat because when I eat I feel you know I feel lethargic you know so there's a lot of times of four o'clock rolls around I have to force myself to literally and that's why sometimes I like just the protein shake because it's you know it gives me something I feel but it's not like I fit but it's weird how you sort of get used to it and yeah you know because I travel and I speak a lot you know it might be like off to give like an 8 a.m. you know opening talk somewhere right and I used to think oh I'll have breakfast just so I you know I'm I have carbs and I'm an you know I'm sharper when I'm on stage no fruit right before this podcast and then I'm like really crap why did I do that you know what I mean I feel better now once you're used to it you know if you actually feel better and you know it's it's kind of funny I was remember who it was but somebody was telling me they're like oh can I you know I had my guy was like post-workout they weren't even like where I was like a cameraman or something no I can I just have some gummi bears my my blood sugar I I'm getting really shaky and I'm like you know alcoholics get shaky too when they don't have the shakiness they drink more alcohol right the problem isn't that you need carbs the problem is reading too many carbs and that you can't go long enough without them like your body should be able to go a long time without feeling shaky mm-hmm anything if it can do that it's due to your diet cut down on the carbs you're so reliant on carbs that you can't even go to ours are you kidding me Malone a meal that's not normal to our school I need some gummi bears I feel like crap like no that's the last thing you need and we were talking about that earlier we're intermittent fasting of all the things I've ever tried and and I'm sure you can you experience this with your clients it's one thing that can actually eliminate that dependency that addiction whatever you want to research shows actually enhances insulin sensitivity I mean the research on intermittent fasting is for health I'm talking about the health benefits insulin sensitivity better immune function mm-hmm fights jet lag do you know it fights jet lag I did not know that I wish I'd known that two years ago wouldn't you know why so usually you have you know we have our 24-hour clock right so here in Boise right you're on what is this mountain so if you travel let's say well let's say you're in LA it's Pacific time and you travel to New York which is Eastern Time so now now when the clock is claiming it's six o'clock mm-hmm and it's starting at dark your body's like hang on so why is it getting dark now we've got three more hour and then the next day does and eventually your body finally goes oh okay I'm three hours faster and catches up takes about a week or so right well another Q uses feeding cues because you know animals of habit so if you typically breakfast lunch and dinner you know reasonably the same time those are cues they use throughout your day when you fast you erase that food cue it's almost like erasing the light cue if you could if you could do that you know which we really care but it erases the food cue if you fast for at least 16 hours then if you have your first meal at the normal time like I la 4:00 p.m. when I'm in New York I faster least 16 hours and I don't eat til 4:00 p.m. New York time I eat that protein shake my body goes four o'clock it's four o'clock okay so it's an extra little cue that fast-forwards your body's adjustment to the new time zone it gives you controls to entrust me I you know when I travel it's not like you know I have to travel and then how I am Gina let's workout today you know 8:00 a.m. yeah you know I mean I've been on a plane for 20 hours but I don't know where I am or what time zone I'm in but I feel great huge huge sounds like you are a seven-days-a-week faster oh do you think that that is the the best approach for somebody to fall because there are 5-2 there's every other day so yeah so I do the sixteen eight which is basically I fast for sixteen hours every day till 4:00 p.m. and I eat for eight hours continually you eat enough in that eight hours right yeah I really don't eat them I probably only think 3,000 calories yeah it really does blunt your cravings yeah do not over eat yeah your stomach really shy yeah yeah you you definitely don't you'll find that you need far less food mm-hmm but the five to two is where you do two days out of the week no one died in just consecutive days one two full days and there's a couple you could do like Rio you only do 600 calories I prefer a full like again you really wanna to get the true health benefits like the immune boost and help with the jetlag and the insulin sensitivity you want to do a ful faste mm-hmm you don't want to you know what six aren't you tired and you need the fast do you know I mean fast it's two days you know 24 hours and then the other five days you're pretty much loose to you know what you can eat you know you you have no time restrictions obviously you don't want to be eating pizzas all day but you know you can be a little looser out in those days because of those two days that you sort of gave it your all what do you literally ate nothing you know and so your reward is now on these other five days of the week I can eat anytime I want and within reason pretty much what I want so have you done a full day or multiplied yeah I've done that too I don't like that so much because I like the regular sixteen a fasting and I just think it's better to have that repetition first as you know two days and then full eating whatever you want sure and one of the first guests that I had on the podcast was this great researcher named Dom D'Agostino who's done a bunch of look at Laos yeah about fasting and and I remember asking him like because you fast do you think that makes you drink more coffee and he kind of thought when he said laid it out very calmly but it sounded like this guy drinks like six pots of coffee a day but do you find that it your your caffeine intake increased no because I'm a big your caffeine I wouldn't say it increased where then is it central to are essential to the project too fast you think so I mean a lot of times I just drink cold water I mean I like coffee so I prefer coffee it helps if you like coffee and tea does a hammer home the point you didn't see any change in your muscle mass from from going on to it and yeah so you know so like I said the reason I never wanted to do any minute fasting was because of the mmm I was worried about the muscle mass loss but now what's interesting is there's new research showing that if you take a lean individual and this is just using be bi you know BIA well I sorry BMI I was trying to figure out what the is yeah that's how we measure water sorry but we're doing a study we're doing a study on you know when I manipulate yeah be your mind thank you body medicine they looked at lean over way in obese fed them a high-protein meal the lean guys protein synthesis was through the roof compared to both the over way in the obese meaning the leaner you are the more anabolic you might be so the old strategy of bulking up mm-hmm and getting fat might actually be working against your muscle mass gains staying lean might keep you more anabolic and to test that theory what I've been doing is literally using the in terment fasting to get my body fat down to as low as I can and then see how my muscle mass responds and so far I've I've actually been gaining small amounts because I'm 49 natural and I pretty much have the pica that's not like I'm gonna gain an inch of my arms but I could gain it if I gain a quarter inch or an eighth of an inch I mean that's a big deal for me especially at you know this that's pure Muslims are especially because you got your beginner to gains at age seven yeah so so I mean I am literally gaining now that you know now that my my are sort of I'm sort of done trying to drop body fat to some degree and so now what I'm doing is just maintaining around like four percent and so what it does is it allows me to play with my protein in the amount of calories while still staying lean and I mean I'm finding that no trouble whatsoever with muscle mass but muscle mass is not my goal mm-hmm you know what I mean it's really not my true goal anymore at this age you know I'm always trying to obviously get my arms just you know big more now it's more about you know you know building more it's more body building you know adding more middle dull adding more you know those sorts of changes sculpting those yeah like though which is still gaining muscle but it's not like you know gaining huge amounts of muscle so then it has to kind of go in hand hand in hand with that consistent training then as well yeah and so you know what I do find is that with the intermittent fasting with the daily training you're getting the best of both worlds that was just kind of long yeah and if somebody is curious about intermittent fasting what what should they have keep in mind when they're starting this in terms of how to time their workouts should they try to get lean first or should they do this to get lean yeah I well you know that's you know would like I said what that research was talking about showing that you're more anabolic leaner right you know I used to say well the goal is up to you now I now I kind of tell people well you might as well get leaner you know what I mean like all of us probably can use to get leaner most of us yeah you're a four percent Jim I don't know for most people you probably could be leaner you know what I mean most people's goal you know most people probably are six percent body fat right so most people can always be a little leaner so now my recommendation is more you know what's the point of having muscle if you can't really see it unless you're an athlete right right if you're a power lifter a strongman an athlete that's fine but if you really want this if you're a you're just lifting to look better why would you want to cover muscle with money then right and having done to a couple of powerlifting meets here locally to watch my friend or sit watching them streaming online a lot more power lifters are showing up looking crazy rip these days yeah that guy used to be a little bit more of a rarity but now they're a lot more of those yes yes like Chinese Olympic weightlifters we are crazy lean the dirty bulk has gone out of at a vogue a little bit people are not they're actually trying to bulk kind of what you're talking about without gaining a whole lot of extra body fat is really what's the point you stress all your systems exactly and it's never good to be yo-yo dieting yeah you know what happens you know you you store a lot of toxins in your fat right and so every time you diet and lose body fat you release those toxins into your bloodstream and that's why you feel like crap when you die no seriously when you're losing fat you're releasing those toxins like styrene from styrofoam you just get stored in fat cells there's a lot of since it gets stored in the fat cells if you just stay lean yeah you know you just get lean the state you know gaining losing gain that's the worst thing you can do what you know is the yo-yo diet even if it's like bodybuilding style that's not it's not healthy yeah even you know I'm trying to working on with a lot of athletes who have to lose weight I'm convincing them to live at they're fighting weight yeah then you know what happens then you actually get stronger because once your body adapts to that weight it's no longer a stress to maintain it the only reason you get weaker when you lose weight is because it's a massive stress on the body to lose all that body weight once the body has adapted to body weight and it's easy to maintain that's your normal homeostasis now so you'll be you know see you're working against yourself by living it to 20 and then dropping down to you know 198 for your fight maybe wonder why your body goes right back up to 220 yeah and then you wonder why you're so weak during the fight you know anymore if you lived at one you know 98 yeah your body would be adapted and you'd walk in there like your strongest form you know enemy versus so so do you find the people who are approaching intermittent fasting from a fat loss perspective because they want to change their body composition maybe they are overweight do you find that's a less stressful approach for them ultimately in terms of the stress on their body or using the in fact yeah I think you know because it's like you said it's so easy to do it's yes or no right so it's not you know it's far easier to follow because the rules are a lot simpler it's not like you know well I can have my curbs now or I can you know and wait is it time to we're not supposed to and how many yeah you know this is like yes or no can I eat no you know is that sounds scary to somebody initially less choice can be a good thing sometimes dude it does yeah you know like I said when you're like waiting in the Starbucks you don't do that sort of mental math with your diet I just had one cake pop let's see the cards if I don't have rice my dinner and then like you don't have to do any of that just like no hmm I can't you know on or yeah inside if said that but again this is technique to have food free will any time if you need that right yeah you know started recording you put it really well it's whatever versus when you eat right yeah so it's you can't eat when you want you can't but you can pretty much eat what you want or you can eat when you want but you can't eat what you want so like those are the two main diet strategies but now I did hear you definitely say earlier that the first meal matters the first feel does Matt I mean for someone who's more in you know if you really look as long as you do the sixteen and a as long as you stick to those rules I again I wouldn't worry for the average person however if you really truly want to maximize your results then I would suggest sticking with a high protein low carb meal as your first meal and then maybe an hour or so after I was including carbs and in terms of scheduling training do you think it is best to train and if s train in the Fed stay it's always best to training especially if you're interested in muscle mass and performance if your goal you know if you're just an average person who just wants to maximize fat loss it doesn't matter when you train right if you want to maximize your performance and the results you get train your so you can do your fasted cardio but expect it to suck basically do you want to really talk about fasted right you know what the research shows infested cardio is pretty debatable because you know what we used to think is that oh you burn more fat during the exercises fasted it's true you do but what happens the rest of the day that's what nobody looked at right so we were all telling people fasted cardio is the best way cuz you burn more fat right mm-hmm since however it doesn't meet the better fell off in the long run so why is that well we started looking at what's going on the rest of the day the more fat you burned during your workout the less fat you burn the rest of the day the less fat you burn during your workout the more fat you burned the rest of the day do you work out more or do you have the rest of the day more right right how much time is your workout and how much time is the rest of the day mm-hmm so you want to be maximizing fat burning during the rest of the day not during the workout what does that high-intensity interval training what does heightens interval training burn carbs all carbs during the workout but the rest of the day you're burning fat like a madman that's how it works so fasted cardio you know what we used to think is a snapshot you know we had a snapshot of what's going on acutely and then we make projections oh well that means you're gonna lose more fat because you burnt more during the workout yes if you also burn more of the rest of the day but guess what you don't burn more of the rest of the day because you burned more during the workout mm-hmm okay so so then if sort of you know if you're like me at like 4% you're like you know what I just have this one spot that I'm trying to get fasted cardio might work for you that might be because that's what anybody who's are really trying to get rid of every little bit of fat you know what I mean that's when you're if you're a 12% body fat it's not gonna make a difference if you do your cardio fast it or if you call you after McDonald's we're talking about somebody who's fasted versus somebody who's doing intermittent fasting as well like that's it seems like once you are actually 2 we you've adapted that is fasting protocol maybe you have a little bit more laxity there like I could certainly train fast it if I wanted to and again you know I work out I mean I stay active all day all day and you know that's one of my other messages is you know what is a workout mm-hmm we've become so sedentary that things that we normally do all day walking lifting moving picking things up we have to condense into an hour as we sit on our butts all day right right that's not how we don't exercise we're not made to sit around and then go I'm gonna run like hell for not battle now I'm gonna sit down to rest and even the research on television watching shows that even if you lift an hour you work out an hour a day if you sit for I don't quote me on the actual hours more than three hours a week in front of the television the benefits of the workout are pretty much gone I remember and that came out it was kind of a mind blower but it made perfect sense it's you can't sit you can't be sitting all day we're not made to be sedentary so I'm active all day even when I'm fasted I might go for a hike in the middle of the day fasted I'm not gonna go to the gym and train a fool I'm I might if that's the only time I can you know if I know this is my only block of where L train faster if I have to it's not ideal but again it's not you know when you're fasted and you're used to in a minute fasting and you exercise it's not like oh my god so you know it's it's normal you know what I mean it's sure Vietnam I remembered Dom D'Agostino he set the record for the most weight lifted in an hour and he was seven days fasted at the time while he did with squats for an hour straight it's a there's a video of it online it's terrifying buddies but he's a freak dude but and so that so then are you also that guy who parks in the furthest parking spot away from them yeah so I'm that guy currently my videos on you know my social media parking like mm-hmm the last spot you know taking the stairs don't use the you know escalator just that incidental stuff it does you find it does really add up over time Oh without no because those deaths that's the type of activity that's most important that staying active all day you know it's just finding the ways to stay active in addition to you're sure you're still gonna do your workout right but in addition to the workout you still need to stay active

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Keywords: Bodybuilding.com, bodybuilding motivation, bodybuilding, bodybuilder, motivation, fitness, workout, exercise, build muscle, lose weight, lose fat, Dr. Jim Stoppani, PhD, intermittent fasting, full-body workouts, daily workouts, science, daily workout, fullbody training, full body training, fasting, intermittent fasting meals, training, weight training for men, intermittent, intermittent fasting keto, diet, intermittent fasting diet, intermittent fasting for muscle growth, fasting diet

Id: 7sd1h058FyY

Length: 29min 5sec (1745 seconds)

Published: Sun Oct 07 2018