Jeff Nippard vs Jeff Cavaliere - Is Volume Killing Your Gains? How to Maximize Muscle Growth

for a thousand bucks a rep how many could you've got more well probably two or three five I don't know four thousand dollars it should be zero coach Greg and I have a great topic to discuss today and it was brought up because of Jeff Cavaliere doing a video on is workout volume killing your gains which was then critiqued by Jeff Nippert saying you know is work a billion killing your games so I watched both videos a few times and I'm gonna tell you which one is right or more right are they both right what is applicable to you based on your level of training what should you do what do I think what do I know and I'm gonna tell you and break it down and make it so that you can understand it it's easy to understand all right I am NOT a doctor I'm a kinesiologist I have a degree a master's degree I know all about this stuff alright so basically this is what we're talking about here volume how many sets you're doing in a workout lately all the buzz is about volume you got to do more sets more sets more growth more sets so people are going set after set after set and the results are going down okay so what is the research say problem is the research says everything okay so when I was in university you say 25 years ago we were taught five really hard sets for a muscle is all you need in a workout didn't say per week they said per workout five hard sets so you're doing chest five hard to fail your sets that's what they said was good then fast forward a few years 20 years and then the researches OH 20 sets gives you more gains than 10 so everyone should do 20 then the research comes out no 30 sets gives you more results than 10 then there's more resources the more sets the better it just is better the more you do forever problem is people start doing these high-volume 2025 sets at a workout fruit chest or biceps what do you think happens they start training like when you do 20 sets of squats none of them are gonna be hard you have to hold back you're holding back because who the heck can go all out for 20 sets I can't and I'm a pro I can't do it I can't train that hard that's just too crazy no one can do it you sacrifice intensity which is how hard you're doing each set for volume if I said you're gonna do one set of legs today squats you can warm up three or four sets you have one set that's all you're allowed to do it then you have to go home you're gonna be like I am going all out on this one said I'm only allowed to do one normally I do 20 I'm going all out so hard crazy heart that's how I treat on bench press on deadlifts on squats whatever exercise is doing that is how I train I went in with the mentality of okay today's back I do deadlifts at the start my deadlifts are the only thing that matters I'm going all out this is it once I'm done my deadlifts the rest of the day is gravy on top of my workout Oh out all out that's how I train that's how I haven't advocate train train harder okay so is workout volume actually killing your gains well Jeff Cavaliere says APSA freaking lutely it is a horrible epidemic of volume killing your games this whole group of people now this epidemic of people in this zone over here wallowing in this zone where they're they think they're doing the right thing by adding more and more volume but their intensity is not adequate enough to actually create change what is happening people keep thinking and hearing volume is what's important so they keep adding sets and sets and sets and with that with that added sets decreased intensity so people are trying to make up for intensity with volume why why are they doing this because it's easier easier it's easier to do a set of five on deadlifts when you can do 10 reps then to do a set of 10 when you can do 10 all-out training like I do all-out so what does Jeff Nippert say Jeff Nippert says moderate to high volume is good and always hold back in your sets leave 2 or 3 reps in the tank lastly I want to look at a fourth scenario this is actually my favorite way to approach programming where you're trying to stay in this optimized zone of the volume gains curve generally speaking that's going to mean a moderate to high volume of training again fine-tune to your training status and so on but also a more moderate level of effort where generally even one to two maybe three reps in the tank and occasionally going to failure and any admittedly says the problem is you say to lead two to three reps to the tank people end up they don't know how many reps are and it takes it in there's five reps in the tank so this the danger is if you tell yourself I'm gonna hold back I'm gonna stop three reps shy of failure chances are you're gonna stop five reps book shy of failure this is what I see in the gym people are lazy people don't train hard and so to tell someone to hold back when they're already holding back is moronic in essen I'm tell them work harder how hard harder than you worked how many reps and feeling harder just go harder stop it harder more effort more intensity go freaking harder but then I can't do my volume because I need 20 sets do less sets how many sets sees you doing a workout is it a 10 20 30 and is it three times a week two times a week what's the minimum effective volume what that's intensity what is RPE stop all the scientific mumbo-jumbo train harder harder are you getting it just train harder how many sets go really really hard and then when you're tired and you can't lift stop boom do you need a scientific paper to say it's 17 sets at this intensity our PPE of 9/8 comes / Bergen diet and fitness etc and this guy and this study and every study contradicts the last study and it depends if you're a freaking beginner you don't need to go all out in nor can you you're just you just join the gym if you've been training for 35 years like me you go and do more sets because you can I can go really hard for a lot of sets because I can I have that training if you just take a bike riding and you go for a three-hour ride on your first day hard you're gonna need a brecht but if you're Lance Armstrong three-hour hard ride is the day off that's the easy days see what I mean it's so simple that you're overcomplicating it people train like in the gym they're lazy how can you improve someone's games train harder everybody sure there's 1% of you that are already trained harder it doesn't apply to you already training hard enough you know you are you're like oh Greg man I do this I train hard you know you are everyone else you need to train harder oh but I'm natural I can't train hard cuz I might be sore I'm natural I can't do it Greg you're on that dare test up you're on creatine crybaby frig off just shut up you natural I treat natural longer than 99% of you how did I train when I grew up a lot of people asked me I went all out Artur all out squats for 25 for Ted I'm going for 11 if I can get 11 I'm going for 12 half the time I couldn't even put the weight back on the rack cuz they go all out that's how you train it's simple harder so Jeff Knipper goes on about you know you saw mr. Sainz he goes on about a study oh they did this group and this group bench press and they did two five sets and this group did it in two 20 sets and in the 20 sets did worse than two five sets yeah that's what I'm saying all along but guess what it depends if you're advanced trainer and they were all advanced and they had 20 of me and we had the five set group in the ten and twenty six there's gonna be more gains from the 20 set group ten to five for a guy like me would advance levels of training but they took three years of experience lifters they were three years of experience it doesn't count oh I have three years of training I'm intermediate not if you train like a friggin lazy person not if you're like bluffing you're not experienced you can go ten years in the gym and just be going through the motion for ten years that's not experience or it could be one year and you're a friggin athlete and you know who you are athletes they train hard you play sports growing up you did killer suicides you played basketball and you ran and you killed yourself all the time you know who you are athletes athletes need to train harder a lot of people are lazy so who is Jeff nippers training good for lazy people beginners people that don't want to go hard they're not athletes non athletes they just want to like a better body than they have they don't want the optimal body they're like Jeff they want to look okay they don't want to train really hard they want to look good Jeff looks good he could look great if he wanted to but he chooses to not train that heart and Jeff doesn't train hard but most people train even less they're hard than Jeff Jeff can deadlift a set of five on his hardest day if I said to Jeff I'll give you $100,000 to do every rep more the set of five that he claims is hard we'd become 15 and he'd get a million dollars when I do a set of deadlifts for free and I do a set of five and they said I'll give you a million dollars to do one more rep I would get Ozzy no extra reps when you went this is what I tell everyone this is how you know you train her for $1,000 per Rep how many more reps would you get there usually my clients will answer I don't know like two or three more I'm like it wasn't all out that how hard was old man it was hard for a thousand bucks a rep how many could you've gotten more well probably two or three five I don't know four thousand dollars it should be zero you should be training on every hard set as if you're being paid to go all-out that's how you train what other people do wrong they rest too short between sets why because you're doing so much volume how you gonna train in an hour and get all 30 sets in if you rest three minutes between sets you'd be there all day so what do they do they rest 30 seconds to a minute is the typical answer I get between sets and what kind of weight can you do when you rest a minute not much if I bench 405 410 and rest a minute my next sets gonna be four or five four three I don't have anything left why because the 10 would have been hard what do most people do oh I'm doing 5 sets of 10 yep 5 sets of 10 doo doo doo doo and then what were the first four sets of 10 if you're able to get 10 reps on your fifth set that means you did four warm-up sets of 10 and then a set of 10 and the tenth and the fifth set probably was still a warm-up so you did five warm-up sets do one set heart if you did five sets of 10 do one set of 15 instead warm up of course then do one set of 15 that's how you do it so Jeff Cavaliere like me I actually think I agree more with what Jeff Cavaliere says overall then Jeff Nippert overall even though I agree with probably 90 to 95% of what Jeff Nippert says I think Jeff Cavaliere is more like me more like a hardcore training type of person jeff Nippert the more I watch this videos as they're more cater to like the average audience which makes sense because more people are average then elite more people just want to look decent than amazing and so on it's easier more people just want to pass University get 70s or 80s C or a B average whatever then get an A plus more people half-ass everything more people go to work and go through the motions no one prides themselves in being the best anymore people are just like it's the mentality of today that everyone gets a ribbon everyone wins a trophy what place you get I don't know last I got a trophy for being last they rewarded me for being the worst that's what today's society is like so yeah Jeff absolutely says people are training in volume and they're doing more volume so that they don't do as much intensity because it's easier or I go all the way as hard as I can till I can't lift it anymore is that actually happening or are you stopping just because it's getting difficult and believe me I've done it myself a second is difficult I kind of stop it's burning I'm done which is what I see and I see the train harder what a Jeff Cavaliere say train harder do less sets train harder rests more between sets so that you can train harder volume is not the be-all end-all growth there's this huge thing of its volume that does grow I have a que time under tension things like that people are like no Greg you're wrong it's volume you need more volume train your whole body five times a week Jeff and Eric Holmes are doing what is that that's too much two to three max not bro split biceps once a week that's garbage split it up you need to create protein synthesis twice a week is amazing just do that train your whole body every six seven or eight days twice that's great do that when do you know that you're too sore you're too tired you trained too hard when you cannot lift ten percent as much as you could on the previous set that means you're done let's do some simple math if you do a hundred pound bicep curls for ten reps then the next set you take off 10 pounds so it's 90 pounds and you rest and you can't do ten reps that means you lost ten percent of your strength you you know ten percent we what are you supposed to do in that situation you are supposed to then increase your rest time and then try it again okay so if you're doing two minutes rest and you're only on set two and you can already have lost that much strength you rest a bit longer and try it one more time and if you can get it good if you can't you're done that's it biceps how many sets did you do to why because that's it I gave it my all my true all my real all my real failure you ask people what do you do in the gym ah they did studies and they'll be like oh yeah I got like twelve reps it was hard and then they say okay here's the same work go all out and they yell at them and scream at them and they average five reps more than they do in the gym so most people are training five five reps below failure I usually train five reps above failure half the sets I do I can't do another rep then I'll do five parcel reps or half reps or I'll do a slow eccentric or I'll cheat the weight or I'll do a drop set I'm trying to increase my intensity that is what I advocate none of this volume bull poop okay too much volume the more volume you have the less intensity you can either train hard or you can train long you can't train long and hard it's too much it's too hard it's too much training it's over train so stop holding back holding back is what Jeff Nippert advocates Jeff Cavaliere advocate advocates do less volume and go harder so when in doubt if you're not making gains look at your workout program and say I am now going to train harder but if you train harder you probably can't because of the volume so do less volume now you have more rest between sets if you're there for an hour and you're doing 30 sets so set every two minutes instead of 30 sets do 20 sets and do a set every three minutes you have more rest you can put more effort on each one of those sets yeah you make it fun of me Oh Greg is texting for two or three minutes between sets but guess what those muscles are resting and I can go harder on every set of you rest 30 seconds I train really intense I only rest 30 in between sets yeah because you're training half-assed the entire workout you're just doing cardio in the gym just do freaking stepper yeah don't even work out cuz you're just going through the motions going through the motions is a problem with society it's a problem in the gym you're not putting effort Jeff knows a lot about certain things I know a lot about certain other things we all have our experience in our own area of expertise I know just as much as them but it's about different stuff same as Jeff I know just as much as Jeff he knows stuff in certain areas more than me and I know certain areas more than him we all have our strengths follow all three of us learn from the three figure out what you can use from Jeff from the other Jeff from me debate it back and forth and learn okay and stop arguing with us like you're a six year old you think you know better just cuz you read someone study somewhere that says something oh great I finished good II study run so meta types don't exist because it's a man-made stop it you don't know anything anyway I have my subs are morons doesn't matter keep the subs coming maybe if you watch enough of my videos you will no longer be a you will only be an idiot and then from there you might graduate from being an idiot to a normal intellectual person that can use your brain analyze and synthesize and get this information and improve and get to your goals the goals of the channel for you should be to achieve your goals you're learning to help yourself achieve your goals watch another video on Geoff nipper that I did watch one on Jeff Cavaliere that I did I suggest you follow Jeff and Jeff both of them they're both awesome and amazing even though I'm debating with them whatever it doesn't matter Greg who said that call him for coaching Greg who said I have even perl Instagram follow me there subscribe click the bell button don't forget and I am out

Channel: Greg Doucette

Views: 712,064

Rating: 4.8765054 out of 5

Keywords: Jeff Nippard, greg doucette, Jeff Cavaliere, lean bulk, Girls who lift, Fitness, Workout, Training, Abs, bodybuilding, glute, glute training, ass, booty, fat loss, lose fat, gain muscle, fitness motivation, health, physique, build muscles, Stephanie Buttermore, muscle, glutes, glute workout, cheat meal, epic cheat day, girl vs food, donuts, pizza, chocolate, junk food, food, challenge, food challenge, cake, cookies, ice cream, full body workout, eric helms, rpe

Id: 39YvjFRiGac

Length: 19min 39sec (1179 seconds)

Published: Thu Dec 05 2019

Reddit Comments

[u/ShortBus0101]

Greg Douche sounds like an annoying spoiled kid. I have nothing against gays, but first time I saw his video I was sure he was gay.

Gilbert Gottfried on roids.

[u/MisplacedM]

Greg needs to get off his high horse...why does he think he’s always right and everyone else is wrong if they don’t agree with him?

[u/ImBatmanDammit]

I think Greg's biggest argument is that when Nippard says to leave ~2 or so reps left in a set that most ppl don't really accurately gauge how much they truly have to give per given set. Greg gives the "gun to the head" analogy that he tries to show that many actually can push themselves harder to failure than they do already. Greg's idea is high intensity, less volume, not as crazy as Mike Mentzer, but more along the lines of Dorian. Doucette for sure is playing it up for the camera as his older videos and the documentary: "The 40 year old Bodybuilder" show a much quieter, softer spoken Greg Doucette.

[u/desolat0r]

Is being annoying this guy's shtick or it's his personality really like this?

[u/Da_llluminati]

I love it. Assisted lifters giving advice to a mostly natty audience.

[u/[deleted]]

If I recall correctly, doesn't the video of Jeff C talks about how intensity is very important? He's always using the clickbait titles and thumbnails but he shares valuable information

[u/Achillesreincarnated]

Its hardly killing your gains but may be completely redundant. There is evidence that there is no benefit to going past a certain point, that you only create more muscle damage that needs to be repaired, but not more signalling for growth

[u/Furby_Sanders]

He said..."frig off"

I'm into this

[u/steiner_math]

Greg is funny, but I disagree with him on a lot of stuff.

Jeff Nippard annoys me, though. Fake natty hiding behind "science based training"