Jeff Durbin Explains Predestination

so one last word here you brought up the issue of slavery and you brought the issue of death and abuse a physical torture you brought up physical torture she was physically abused and slavery and everything else you God could could not pop possibly have a purpose in any of that and still continue to judge the wicked man for doing it I would again point you to what you already know because you've heard it from us a number of times and that is in the book of Acts you have Jesus who was actually physically tortured and abused and murdered on a tree and of course the church says God gathered in this city against your holy servant Jesus Pontius Pilate Harold the people herod the peoples of Israel the Gentiles to do whatever your hand predestined to occur the murder the abuse of the Lord of glory the Lord Jesus on the cross was according to God's predetermined plan and you can't give me an example that's worse than that no not worse than that you cannot Calvinism states at every event in the history of the world is predestined well that's what the Bible teaches and that God specifically created each person to go to heaven or hell the no individual has free agency chromium already debunked uh but all of their choices and intentions were designed by God to do so sorry that's a lie people are responsible for the sin that's within their own hearts God is sovereign even over that sin and they don't fort their God and their punishment of hell is just a reaction to their actions in which God imposed upon them lies quake ooh you're lying this is pure false witness and I want to say this that the one benefit of this quake ooh I'm going to say this to you gently the one benefit of you writing articles like this is that it leaves behind a public record of ignorance a long-term public record of ignorance that you just do not know what you're talking about and if you continue to propagate these stories it only demonstrates that you have no you have no intention of having integrity when talking about other people's belief system now I'm sure that you want us to have integrity when we talk about yours and I want you to know you have our commitment to do so but you have no commitment to integrity so let me just talk through this real fast and you guys jump in he says Calvinism states at every event in history of the world is predestined yes and that God specifically created each person to go to heaven or hell well let's flesh that out romans romans 9 maybe chapter 9 John chapter 6 I would just point you there Romans chapter 9 John chapter 6 let me just go ahead and just read the passage for you as an example more can be done on this but this is where I would go to point you in terms of let's look at what God says about this in Romans chapter 9 it says in verse 9 for this is what the promise said about this time next year I will return and Sarah will have a son shall have a son and not only so but also when Rebecca had conceived children by one man our forefather Isaac though they were not yet born and had done nothing good either good or bad in order that God's purpose of election might continue not because of works but because of him who calls she was told the older will serve the younger as it is written Jacob I have loved but Esau I have hated can we just say one quick thing about yeah yeah the directly refutes a sentence that he wrote and that is that the punishment of God in hell is just a as a just reaction to their sins that passage you just read said that before they had done either good or bad was God's sovereign decree of election that's right so irrespective of their good and bad deeds God's choice stands his choice of grace ultimately that's right what shall we say then is there injustice on God's part don't you think it's interesting that's quick who's writing an article accusing God of injustice right yeah and Paul's our two dealt with that is there injustice on God's part by no means for he says to Moses I will have mercy on whom I have mercy and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion see that's the central reference point that Quake who misses is that he writes us in such a way as to describe all of humanity as basically these good sort of morally neutral people right what God says here about election is I'll have mercy on who my mercy and compassion and whom I have compassion the issue here is God's grace and mercy upon rebellious and hostile people that's the issue so then it depends not on human will or exertion but on God who has merci here's the point what is the reference point here for Paul on this whole discussion about predestination and election what's the reference point God's mercy yep God's mercy for the scripture says to Pharaoh for this very purpose I've raised you up then I might show my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth so then he has mercy on whomever he wills and he hardens whom ever he wills you will say to me then why does he still find fault for who can resist his will but who were you old man to answer back to God will what is moulded say to it smolder why have you made me like this has the Potter no right over the clay to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and one other for dishonorable use so here's the point you have all of humanity according to Paul that's one sinful lump all of us deserve what what is the sinful lump of humanity deserve they got justice if God was fair with them and he gave them what they deserved what is all of humanity deserve according to Scripture what do we all deserve tell us burn in the fire we all deserve punishment we all deserve to be separated from God so the issue here is not this morally neutral a lot of humanity that God is just going hell for you heaven for you no it's an entire rebellious hostile humanity that hates God turns away from God they will not have God and God chooses to give mercy which is the compelling issue that you miss quake ooh you act like Humanity is neutral morally neutral with God basically good people and how could God just give you no salvation to some and not to others don't they all deserve it no what they all deserve as hell and that whole lump should have gone into the fire but God chose to give some salvation and I actually personally believe that the vast majority of humanity will receive God's grace at the end of time that's my personal position on that that's not universalism caveat I am saying in terms of the future I believe the kingdom of God will have victory over the world and I think personally that the largest mass of humanity will be actually given grace but that would also get into the eschatology question but that's another issue the point is is that God chose to give grace grace is the issue undeserved grace and mercy now watch this when God gives grace to a human being it is an exercise of majestic resurrection power for God to give grace to a hostile rebel sinner it's God acting and moving in a powerful way to give mercy and grace to change hearts and open eyes and give ears and change spiritual condition but when God chooses to give judgement to somebody what does he have to do there no let them have what they want God doesn't have to act against them move against them make them hate him they do hate him all he has to do is let them be what they want what do you have to do by the way to get clay to get hard what do you have to do let clay be clay let clay be clay and the Potter has the right over the clay to do what he wants makes vegetable vessels of honourable use and some for dishonorable this whole lot of humanity deserves hell we all deserve it the astonishing thing here quake uu is not that God gives anybody what they want with hell which is what they we all want not God the astonishing thing is that he would save one anyone you should be in all that a holy God chose to save any of us and that just goes to show you have a view of God where he's not very holy not very righteous not very just and not really ultimately worthy to be so offended you know that's your God and he's not the potter that scripture describes him to be doing as he will with his own creation you know that's the idea is that I think it's powerful that Paul I think has in mind Isaiah chapter 45 in this and verse 9 where it says woe to him who strives with him who formed him a pot among earthen pots does the clay say to him who forms it what are you making or your work has no handles mmm Paul has the mindset of Isaiah the prophet in Romans chapter 9 and saying that all of creation is God's he can do with everybody as he pleases to do and it has glorified him - out of the same lump makes some that are destined for honorable use and some for dishonorable used to his glory and he gives the example of Pharaoh as someone that he raises up for that very purpose to be displayed as his power and it's not because God is somehow lacking in anything or he is attempting to boast of his hone attributes as the article I'm sure I don't know if we have time to get to it today but it goes on to say that it says that God is essentially boasting and making a big deal about himself where we go because he lacks something he hasn't secured why would God do this God wish to prove his power and omnipotence to whom nobody Calvinism doesn't teach a plurality of gods in this denomination there is no pre-earth existence no grand heavenly council just an unexplainable nothingness okay hold on so that's all of Christianity teaches that that before the world began it was God yeah and then yeah and it denies you poor ally of gods and in the pre-existence and all that God Society meaning he's self existent he doesn't derive his being from the creation is before all things not just the denomination of Calvinism mm-hmm right oh by the way quick ooh if you had listened to what we believe about the triune God if you had read some of the books that after who I gave to you if you would listen to our shows anything at all and worked on this you would realize this is a very this isn't a very powerful reaction or compelling in any way we believe that God is triune and from all eternity existed in perfect holy fellowship Father Son and Holy Spirit God was never lacking in anything not one whatsoever John chapter one is a good example in the beginning was the word the Word was with God and the Word was God just an unexplainable nothingness except for God and he showed his power to the Myriad's of nothing by creating man and enacting cruelty to benefit him you see this is what interesting here is that you think man deserves glory youth you think man deserves glory in some way you think man deserves to be the centerpiece here you think man deserves to be the center of reference that man must be the center of attention and the fact that you would have a God who does things for his own glory and boasting and power like you know you need men there you got to have some men to receive some creditor they have to be a part of this process because he wants a glory like him this is a person who believes he's gonna become a God with the exaltation of bandits the key assumption here we go so it says many works can be used to describe this rather pernicious theology many would call it backwards evil satanic or cruel however there's one word I would use insecure there's a desperation in the somewhat mainline Christian teaching of eternal pain and damnation for of those outside of your religious preference but there's an undeniable and extreme and security in the belief that everyone else was created to fail except for you for example imagine the 47 year old janitor was recently released from prison when he reflects back on his life he feels an unshakable embrace of disappointment he feels broken dreams and regretful decisions he is angry he is bitter and he wants fulfillment when he searches for solace in religion he'll be humbled yet if he embraces Calvinism he is told he is one of the elect he was predestined to be with God while everyone else was predestined to fail his life wasn't meaningless but most others were yet the strong man takes the cake here this is my line it on fire nobody talks like that in reformed theology and you're just continuing on displaying that you just do not know what you're talking about yeah one doesn't need to have been in a horrible place like prison to feel that resentment towards humanity or even if feel a deep sin security however it is likely they must be burdened by these feelings to embrace the doctrine and teachings of Calvinism so that's what this is now it's an emotional assessment on the part of Quay ku in all his 22 years of wisdom to basically say what's really happening within reform folks is that it's not the Word of God that's driving their theology which you didn't use an ounce of it's insecurity yeah they're just insecure and perhaps such insecurity resonates well with the God of Calvinism a God that needed to prove his power a God that created the world to boast in his own glory and God that wasn't secure in himself and had to resort to bragging hey God that only loves the Calvinists a God that only sent his son to die solely for the Calvinist or like-minded Protestants so I'll go backwards hey God that only loves the Calvinists I don't know any reform person who has ever believed that or taught that can you reference something quick ooh of any Calvinist that saying God only loves Calvinists you can't you won't find anything like that that God that only loves the Calvinist interesting I I find it compelling that in order to come against reformed theology you have to lie about reformed theology to make your case now when it comes to God and His glory yes please yes let's go there maybe isaiah 40:8 go ahead go ahead for my name's sake I defer my anger for the sake of my praise i restrain it for you that I may not cut you off behold I have refined you but not as silver I have tried you in the furnace of affliction for my own sake for my own sake I do it for how should my name be profaned my glory I will not give to another maybe just another example to the promise of the New Covenant in Ezekiel chapter 36 I was just going there why is the redemption of God for what purpose did he undertake the redemption of a particular people in Jesus Christ I read that please he says this he says to Israel he says they profaned his name they had no concern for his holy name he says in verse 21 of 36 of ezekiel but i had concern from my holy name which the house of israel is profaned among the nations to which they came therefore say to the house of israel thus says lord god it is not for your sake o house of israel that i'm about to act but for the sake of my holy name which you have profaned among the nations to which you came i will vindicate the holiness of my great name which has been profaned among the nations in which you have profaned among them and the nations will know that i am the lord declares the lord god went through you i vindicate my holiness before their eyes so it's interesting here is the promise in a new covenant and god's and dwelling spirits God says I'm gonna do it not for you not for you I'm gonna do it from my name's sake for my glory yep you've drove my name through the mud it's not for your sake that I'm acting it's for my own name's sake and don't you think if you were wanting to somehow represent Calvinists is believing that God is needy that God would have said something different in that passage for the sake of you because I need you so much because I'm not sufficient in myself I must redeem you no that's not the god of scripture the scripture presents to us it is a God by whom no swearing can be higher than him he's the height of all things you cannot swear by anything higher than him he there's nothing above him so of course he acts of his own will and for the sake of his own glory yea because there's none like him that's right just like the Bible tells us and the verses that we've already quoted for the past few weeks Isaiah just read Isaiah chapters 40 through 48 talking about there's none like him who are you gonna compare them to that by the way is not Mormon theology there is none like sorry good no good yeah yeah I'm just gonna say yeah there's plenty of God's like him you know there's again an infinite number of gods and quake who hopes to be one of those gods yeah you

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Id: YTR2n5NkCNE

Length: 16min 43sec (1003 seconds)

Published: Fri Sep 21 2018