Correcting False Beliefs about Calvinism

we wanted to engage this article it is on something called medium.com and it is by quake ooh quake ooh was on recently here on apologia radio with dr. white and myself we discussed some issues it was actually really interesting conversation if you haven't seen yet encourage you to check through the threat here on the videos here on apologia studios and check out that episode I think it'll be helpful to you he wrote an article for medium and this is the title of the article the title the article is the insecurity of Calvinism the insecurity of Calvinism now I want to just start and you guys feel free to jump in at any moment here I want to start by saying that one of the great struggles I had with Quaker while he was on the show and in watching his shows where he talks about Christian theology and doctrine is that he demonstrates that he hasn't done his homework so he i from from my perspective he doesn't have a lot of my respect in this area because he hasn't done his homework to say to accurately represent the person he's trying to create critique right yeah and I think what's frustrating is you guys corrected him on the show we did a show last week again correcting him and then he comes out with this article still saying the same thing so you know he's been corrected multiple times it demonstrates that he did not listen because you even touched on this very subject now we're gonna talk about you touched on predestination you touched on the will of man as a creature and how he's not a robot right you touched on the will of man making choices as a free agent but he chooses consistently with hit what his nature is what his nature is and this article reflects it there was no listening right on that point yeah he makes very clear that he did not take that in right and he did not represent what reformed theology teaches essentially what the Bible teaches yeah about man's will so that's just one example exactly and I think you know there are people I want to say this there are people who disagree with reformed theology I would say they're they're in disagreement with the Apostle Paul and Jesus in the New Testament and many in historic church and of course didn't on Reformation but they're still brothers in the Lord and they do not do what men like quake ooh does and that's misrepresent us they try to take this from the angle of the scriptures let's see if the Bible really says here but there at least they at least have the integrity to not misrepresent our position so one of my friends dr. Michael Brown he is brother in the Lord a a stellar follower of Jesus I love him he's a friend he we have disagreements in this area he's debated dr. white in this area he doesn't want to misrepresent his Calvinist brothers he wants to represent faithfully he just has disagreements so there's a man who has disagreement over this area but doesn't try to reduce represent there are other men who disagree with us at apologia Church their brothers in the Lord but they that you can tell that they are working hard to make sure they represent our position accurately so they deserve our respect they deserve our respect and their brothers in the Lord I believe that they're wrong of course but they're still brothers in the Lord and they have my respect person like Kwai ku has no respect from my perspective in this area because he chooses to to misrepresent the people that he's arguing against now if I had done that to Mormons if I lied about what Mormons believe if I created fictitious quotes from their prophets and leaders then of course I would deserve to be condemned rightly well I know it's funny about that is we get criticized a lot for misrepresenting them but all we are doing ish is is quoting quoting yeah prophet apostles and yeah so I was just gonna say quickly this article is a is a big field of burning scarecrows it's just one straw man after another each point he tries to make another straw man up in flames and yeah it's it's it's fun let's get to it cool you ready all ready here we go I'm gonna go through it guys stop me at any time all right here we go and thank you all for watching please go to apology of studios.com to get more god arranges all things by his sovereign council in such a way that individuals who are born are doomed to the womb to certain death i think it says should say from the womb and are to glorify him by certain destruction that's a quote from John Calvin that is how quick ooo leads off the article and here we go on any given Sunday practicing Christians of all denominations find themselves in the pews or chairs of their respective church building first he's assuming he's a Christian mm-hmm okay continue each denomination will affirm the existence of God yes they may consider God they may consider God to be a man with a body reflective of you and I sorry Quaker we see what you're trying to sneak in and how which Christian denomination right um Orthodox meaning standing on the words of Scripture actually believes that yeah no one quake ooh we realize what you're trying to do here and that is you're trying very very hard as as an active PR public relations for the Mormon Church to squeeze Mormon theology into the historic Christian faith and you just simply are not you are part of a false communion it is not a Christian Church you preach a false God and a false gospel your Jesus is not the Jesus of Scripture and God does not have a body of flesh and bone as tangible as man they may consider God to be a man with a body reflective of you and I know that's Mormonism that is the idolatry of Mormonism the false god of Mormonism if we're to look what the Bible says about God it says God is spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth and a man Jesus described spirit and I talked about this in the last episode yeah he says handle me and see to Thomas he says spirit does not have flesh and bone as you see me have that's his definition of spirit and so no keep in mind this is one of an infinite number of God's he's talking about that's right they may consider God to be a Trinitarian essence or a Moda list spirit okay so this is and this is what this the first point that really upset me because again we talked about this last week on last week's show he in the show he did with dr. white he claims that he did not misrepresent the Trinity and he went back and in their show on three Mormon show that's exactly what he said yes we corrected him on this and he's still saying the same thing we are not saying essence at all that he is in it that his essence is divided right right I'm wondering what he means exact by that yet slow money it's money yet each denomination can and will affirm the existence of God regardless each denomination will affirm that Jesus Christ is the son of God and Saviour of mankind whether they believe Jesus is the form of the father a spirit brother of mankind there you go quake who will gain both false doctrine there yeah of course but quite cool we see what you're trying to do my friend and that squeeze Mormonism into the denomination category of Christianity it is not it's a non-christian cult that's what Mormonism is so whether they believe Jesus used to form of the Father a spirit of brother of mankind or a heavenly influence teacher who became perfect each can and will affirm Jesus Christ Yeshua to be the Son of God none of those are Orthodox abusive of Christ a heavenly influenced teacher who became perfect is not Yeshua right Yeshua is not a mere man that's the point of standard Christian doctrine is that he is the eternal God yeah Christian theology has very well defined both in of course the writings of Scripture of the New Testament Old Testament but also all the way into the 1st 2nd 3rd 4th centuries of the church you have the Christian Church very clearly defining what we believe about Jesus Christ you have the earliest heresies creeping into the church say in the second century whether it was the not whether it was a Gnostics whether it was sabelli anism whether it was modalism to Arianism all of those different isms were creeping into the church in the Christian Church responded with confession and Creed you can even find fights taking place but to truly and near the end of the 2nd century AD clearly defining what we believe about Jesus Christ and talking about the Trinity you can even find Santa Claus deccan people or you can yeah oh st. Nick so here's what I know we're going pointing my point here I just want to make this very very clear quake ooh the way you demonstrate a pure ignorance about Christianity orthodoxy biblical theology and it's just clear that this is just a PR piece to try to promote ultimately Mormonism and to try to cast Mormonism into just another denomination of the Christian Church it is not whether they believe Jesus is just a form of the Father heresy cast out by the the historic Christian Church in the second century a spirit brother of mankind's that's Joseph's perverse theology or heavenly influence teacher who became perfect that sounds maybe a little new agey maybe I don't know each can and will affirm Jesus Christ just show it to be the Son of God okay here we go at face value this indeed would indeed make Christianity the same at its core no at face value this would indeed make Christianity the same at its core how in that way having all of these false Christ's false characterizations of God and then somehow constructing this inclusivity where Oh as long as we say Jesus as long as we use the terminology son of God it doesn't matter what we actually believe about that right Jesus can be just a mere prophet and still be the means of salvation no the Bible is very clear about defining the Son of the Living God what that means who Jesus is and the reality that it is only through the biblical Christ it is only through the Jesus Christ the Messiah Yeshua that is presented in Scripture you can be saved it's only through him so if you don't have the true Christ you are dead in your sins Jesus says unless you believe that a go a me I am he takes the divine title of Yahweh and applies it to himself saying unless you have me there is none other I am your gonna die in your sins because guess what I'm God and I'm the only one that's authorized to forgive your sins just like that story in the in the Gospels where you have you know the religious leaders are all upset with Jesus they say how dare you pronounce forgiveness of sins right on this person that you just healed right I think it was the paralytic right and he says well by the way just so you'd know that the son of man has authority on earth to forgive sins hey take up your mat and walk mm-hmm the sign was a pointer to the divine reality that Jesus can forgive sins because he's God in the flesh the sign itself was not the thing the sign was a pointer to God and flesh being the one that has the authority and the power to forgive sins by nature of who he is yes that's right that's the point yeah they knew only God can forgive sins and be blasphemy to claim to do it that's why they were offended that's why they were very offended that's right and the fact that he says take every bed and walk demonstrates that he has the prerogatives both ways he gets two tickets to say this and he gets to say that your sins are forgiven and that's a good point I mean unless you believe that go Amy you will die in your sins I am don't forget so important that's where he says before Abraham was I go Amy I am and they picked up stones to kill him they knew what he was saying they knew what he was saying proof is right after that Jesus says many good works have I shown you from the Father for which of these do you stone me and they said for that good works we stone thee not but for blasphemy that you being a man make yourself God they knew what he was saying and they knew that it was impossible for any human being to say that they are God or have dryin divine prerogatives unless of course he actually is God so here we go just to point out that this is not just a unique thing that apology a church these reformed guys these Calvinists are saying about their specific little Jesus let's go to the writings of Scripture don't forget in the second at first century of the church you had the earliest beginnings of Gnosticism creeping into the church the Apostle John and Paul deal with Gnosticism and Gnostic thought in the New Testament itself and so you've got these false versions of Jesus already creeping into the church in the first century of the church and they were being fought against and then second Corinthians chapter 11 this what Paul says in that context verse 3 I'm afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning your thoughts will be led astray from sin sincere and pure devotion to Christ for if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus then the one we proclaimed or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted you put up with it readily enough it's a way of saying you might even put up with these people he's worried about them I'm worried that you're gonna be deceived like Eve by Satan's craftiness another Jesus someone to come and preach a different Jesus than the one that we preach he says and I'm afraid you're gonna put up with it you gonna just let it go and so this is Paul in the first century dealing with false Christ's false spirits false Gospels so when we as the Christian Church point out that the Mormon Jesus is a false Christ it's not just us being big meanies just trying to cross every theological T and dot all the eyes this is us as Christians Orthodox s historic real genuine followers of Jesus who were saying we are following the pages of Scripture here and saying that's a false Christ yep yep one more here just to show you this coming from John this is from the Apostle John he has to deal this is such a short little letter but it was so serious to the to the Apostle John he's worried about the church and he says this watch yourselves second John verse 8 watch yourselves so that you may not lose what we have worked for but may win a full reward everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ does not have God whoever abide in the teaching has both the father and the son if anyone comes to you does not bring this teaching do not receive him into your house or give him a greeting for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works of course this is talking to a house Church in the first century don't let this person into your worship don't let him into your home to disrupt your worship your fellowship your communion and what is that the are disease deceivers John says and here's what they're doing those who do not confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh they were denying that God had taken on flesh this is dealing with the earliest beginnings of Gnosticism creeping into the church and John says this look these Gnostics who are saying they believe in Jesus they're saying they're followers of Jesus but they're saying that God would never take on flesh he would never do that because this this nation's dirty this is dirty and broken and evil God would never Sully himself with human flesh there John says anybody don't does that they profess to believe in Jesus but they deny that God took on flesh he says this person is Antichrist they don't know God do not even let him into your house that's not very nice so quick ooh when you write this article and you say hey all these Jesus's they're all welcome whatever denomination I would say tell that to the apostles and P end and Paul tell that to them that they should just be welcoming to all these different versions of Jesus no I'm sorry it sounds like Universal comes I mean well it's it's include its how would you say it's inclusive ISM so to summarize it it's only exclusive faith in the exclusive Christ that will save anybody and that's why this matters because you have a different Jesus then you have no hope of being saved what happens I'll vation yeah and I think the point yeah I think one final word here isn't it interesting that quake who has all this room and his theology for all these different versions of Jesus but he doesn't have room for the sovereign Jesus who rules over all you

Channel: Apologia Studios

Views: 90,663

Keywords: Apologia Radio, Apologia Studios, Jeff Durbin, luke pierson, joy temby, apologia radio live, Mormon debate, intense debate, jeff corrects bad theology, calvinism defended, the dividing line, radio free geneva, james white calvinism, calvinism debate, jeff durbin calvinism, 3 mormons, mormonism, james white mormon, jeff durbin mormon, apologia church, calvinism debunked, bad theology, Correcting False Beliefs about Calvinism

Id: J_BCN79XV-c

Length: 16min 29sec (989 seconds)

Published: Tue Sep 18 2018