oh missed the GoPro by that much! Hi it's Tod at Tod's Workshop and Tod Cutler
here and I'm back with Michael Allison. So Michael throws Javelin for team GB under 20s
and I think we've established over very many films I can't throw, Michael can. Just have
a look at some of these. So you better enjoy this one because actually this is now
coming up to Michael's academic season, not his sporting season. So you're back at
Uni in a week or two aren't you? Couple weeks, so this will be it until next year. So this
one is the medieval fletched Javelin and it's this thing here. So it's got a whopping big head
on it, fletchings on the back and can be thrown with or without a throwing string. So any Michael
first impressions of this thing? Yeah I mean well just throwing the javelin without the string I'd
imagine it's going to be well in my comfort zone, pretty similar to the pilum and to the normal
Javelin but this leather strap is yeah nothing like I've ever thrown with before so it's going to
be interesting. What I would say is your standard javelins are 800 gram aren't they, the pilum
was coming in at about 12 or 1300 grams I think, so you know significantly heavier. These are
about 500 grams but before we go on because I am making the most of Michael on this day there's
going to be a bonus film at the end of this and that bonus film is "Man Throws Rock". Now I
can't promise that "Man Throws Rock" is going to be Internet gold, but the thing is there is a
good reason for this, because this was genuinely a weapon that legionaries trained with, Roman
Legionaries trained with. Anyway let's go down the range and we'll start throwing this stuff
and we're going to start throwing without the strings on it just to get a feel for what
the thing's like. So Michael take it away; I'm guessing our Gopro's out at about 40,45
meters something like that. Yeah but bear in mind guys today 45 mph gusts about 65 km an
hour so pretty much coming that way. Anyway Michael. Oh missed the GoPro by that much! Oh
lovely! Oh just over, so we were getting there a nice kind of casual throw I suppose 45 M.
Shall we just try throwing one sort of off to one side a little bit? Yeah Yeah I'll try like
not throw it straight and see if it corrects. So the context of these things is you see them
a lot thrown by skeletons, but we ignore the fact they are thrown by skeletons, but you see
them a lot in medieval artwork involving ships and castles: sieges that sort of thing. And my
gut feeling is with the fletchings you've got a few things going on. If you're a good javelin
thrower you won't throw that as far because the fletchings create drag, but the other thing about
it is that they stabilise really quickly just like they do with the plumbago. Let's go again see
what thoughts you got on it. Right Michael what we trying on this one? Yeah so whereas normally I'd
be trying to throw these perfectly straight along their line I'm just going to throw them a bit more
like that so as I come over release like that and see if it's going to self correct. In essence see
how badly you can throw it and it still works. Yeah, yeah. Great okay ah it sort of did that
didn't it it snaked a little bit but pretty much ended up where you were aiming at. Yeah I mean
the key thing is it did go straight in the end, it's just kind of wobbled around and probably lost
of bit distance but yeah not too much, 5 meters maybe. Next one go again okay yeah that one I did
even worse and you can see you know. With this one I might literally just go like, well literally
sideways, as bad as possible. This is against all of my nature this is. Put your training back
years. All right well there we go, the last one because of the camera angle is looking offline
it's actually it's not offline, it's maybe a meter to the left, it's just a trick of the lens.
Nobody can throw that badly really. Yeah but it's a really interesting point that, because what
it means is that it can de-skill things a lot. You know if you're in a shield wall and you're
throwing these things out or whatever and your mate is screaming there because he's had his foot
chopped off and somebody behind you just gets an arrow in the face just at the moment you're about
to throw; put you off your stride a bit I think? Yeah yeah. So de-skilling a weapon, reducing the
absolute skill required is actually a good thing to do as well as, perhaps,and this is my theory,
you see them in the context of ships and things because of the interaction of rigging and stuff
like that. So now Michael what's up next? Well we're going to put on the strap and see how it
affects it. Okay so we're going to do two throws, one with a throwing string on it one without.
Basically just get your feedback how does it feel and so things like the length of the string,
the position of the string, that's all going to be really important and we're not going to know that
now on throw one. So that's what we're going to have a look at now is developing those positions
to make it throw nicely. So first off our string. Nice so 25 centimetres. Oh that was a meter less I think. The
string was in the wrong position on that one okay, it felt I mean, I'll try again, I'll adjust
it a bit. It felt like the string needs to be further back yeah because it as it came out it
sort of felt like it was... I wasn't watching. Going getting away from me yeah? What I want
is my hand in the same position it would be normally I think and then yeah so about there.
Okay seems to be good oh yeah. Okay so that was a much much cleaner throw actually. Yeah and
you can see because the one before because it was already trying to tip back out my hand, it
immediately went like that. We've got a bit of a headwind and that's probably why it completely
died, whereas that one came out nice and straight and yeah it's gone 10 meters further. So
what's up this time? So I mean we're going to experiment with positioning of the strap and
I'm just throw it a bit harder because I'm also wondering if when I throw it harder if I'm going
to want the strap in a different location. Don't know why that would be but I have a feeling you
might I feel like that might happen. Take it away. Lovely oh okay oh that's gone very far right, oh
nice. So a good throw, clean throw, didn't buck, only a couple of meters further though. Yeah
it..... give me a few more throws, I feel like I need to get a bit more used to it because it
is, it is a bit different, especially when I'm throwing harder. Well I think that's probably
quite a good position then actually Michael. So if I just leave you alone for half an hour,
I'll get a cup of coffee, do nothing obviously, and I'll come back and see how you do. Sure. Pick
it up from there. So left you alone for a bit. Yeah so my first thoughts are I think I found
the right sort of position for this which is, I mean I want it in my hand where I would have it
without the strap so right on the balance point I sort of have the balance point... Ah that's
interesting. In the palm and then that is where I want the strap. So it's further back than we
initially thought, otherwise it just does that straight away and then I also need to make a bit
more of a conscious effort to keep and flick my finger through, because what you're essentially
getting I've realised is the javelin's left your hand but you've still got the strap on your finger
so you just do a last little push and especially on the easy throws it just feels like you almost
hold on to it longer. Yeah that's the only way I can really describe it. I think I have another
go with these see how far we can get them. We've moved the GoPro back to about 55, 60 meters, give
it a go and then we'll change strap positions, strap lengths. Sure do that. Oh beautiful! So
3 meters wide of the GoPro, but same kind of length. Nice but a really clean throw. Oh lovely.
I think the wind caught that one a little. Yeah, yeah. Lovely! Again same kind of distance. So
you're consistently getting you know whatever it is 55, 60 meters and intriguingly
though you were just saying before that, you feel that actually the harder you throw
the less improvement that string gives you. I on the short throws, on the easy ones it
just feels like I can noticeably feel like the javelin's left my hand and then I'm pulling
it further, whereas on these ones I just don't really get that feeling. Yeah okay that's I mean
that is interesting if that is the case across the board actually because of course you are
an elite thrower in that sense and most guys throwing these things are not going to be, it
leaves the intriguing possibility to me that actually it gives more back to intermediate
throwers than it does to professionals, yeah very good ones. So we try some
different straps, I think try different strap lengths. So we are developing a theory here which
is essentially that you want to throw it from the natural balance point and then obviously you then
have a length of string. That length of string needs to connect to the the Javelin in the right
place so we'll just give that a go see how that is. Okay so that bucked massively. Yeah it felt
like the string was too long, it just felt like I'd released it and then it as I pulled it it
wasn't pulling it forward it was just pulling the tail down and that's what made it buck. I think
that that could well be what you're doing. In fact is actually that you are as you're pulling
down because I mean is doing this your hand as you release doesn't go straight forward it comes
down, so my hand's on its way down and the string just pulled the tail down and yeah yeah. So yeah
I think if it's too long it just makes it buck interestingly I had exactly this problem trying to
throw darts off a trebuchet. It was it was pulling the back of the dart down. It's amazing how
many parallels there are between these different things. So shall we go back again and try an
even shorter string? I think shorter is better, especially when you're throwing hard. Yeah I
think we're coming up with a conclusion here aren't we? Actually we're getting somewhere.
So we got three of our fletched javelins here with different length strings on. So that one is a
little bit longer than the last you threw and this is now shorter. Right take it away. Just throw
them get got feeling. I'll start with the original one. Oh! So this is the last of them
now with the shortest of straps, shorter than we have tried before actually. Nice! So this time round we've got three short straps on all three and
we're just going to see how we go. Lovely! Oh beautiful! Yeah beyond the GoPro. So I think against the odds
actually we've come up with a conclusion because I was expecting us to go "I kind of like this",
but not really understanding the methodology. These could be issued to a bunch of guys but
the thing is they are all going to be running on different strap lengths. What suits them. So I
can't tell you what suits you, but I can tell you about 20 cm 8 in suits Michael and about double
that suits me so I don't know what that means, but anyway I think against the odds we came up
with the conclusion. So brilliant. But Michael just going to say goodbye now but we're back for
our little bonus film "Man Throws Rock". You'll never have seen this one before. So Michael's
armed with his rocks, I'm armed with my books. So first up we got Vegetius here, Roman General
and he wrote after the hey day of the Roman Empire about training methods. Now this is really really
interesting here; "so it's advisable that recruits should be thoroughly trained at casting stones
by hand or with slings." Slings we know, but this means that Roman Legionaries are taught to throw
stones as a weapon and then at the end it says, "it often happens too that warfare is carried
out in stony places." Stones are available; teach your guys to throw them. So how heavy is
a stone? Well we do know actually that there are Roman fortifications I would imagine that Dura
Europa would be one of them, where there are piles of stones ready for the throwing, but in here
"The Catapult, a history", it also talks about it and this is the book that put me on to it and
it talks about it being one Libre, Roman pound, 330 grams, that's uh, I don't know work it out
in modern pounds, but about 3/4 of a pound, something like that. So Michael you're armed
with these stones, you going to have a go at our Barbarian? Yeah let's see what damage I can do.
Man Throws Rock, I've been waiting years for this. Nice puff of dust there, that'll
look great in slo-mo. I bet it will. Hit the boss again, did
it or oh yeah yeah. There we go. Good. It's going to hurt you, but they're
not really that good. I'd rather have a plumbata if I were throwing something.
Some lovely shots to the shield and to the torso there. No face shots unfortunately
Michael. No turns out I'm more accurate with a spear than a rock apparently. Well it is
your thing; it's a bit more technologically advanced as well. So anyway Michael;
pleasure. Man Throws Rock. Thank you
