James Comey on Speaking Truth To Power with Emily Maitlis

what a lovely welcome good evening ladies and gentlemen it's great to see so many of you here it's fantastic James Comey the former director of the FBI who served under presidents Bush Obama and Trump opens his book cover with a question what is ethical leadership how do you do what is right instead of what is politically expedient now he tries to answer that and explain the actions that turned out to be so pivotal to America's 2016 presidential election the election of Donald Trump in the following 300 pages of his book a higher loyalty and tonight we have the chance to talk to him about the decisions he made the calls he took the people he met the conversations that took place behind closed doors the lives that were perhaps changed forever by that curious set of circumstances that have been played and replayed in so many of our minds and I'm sure in James Comey zoned director Comey and I met once before it was shortly after publication of his book in New York when I interviewed him for BBC Newsnight but things have moved on since then both in terms of America's own story the president's newest moves and policies and in terms of what we also know about the Department of Justice report in to your own actions you were called insubordinate we'll come back to that in a second let's start with a nice gentle one James Comey thank you thank you do you feel responsible for bringing Donald Trump to power okay that's all you got huh that's it I I don't although I hear people who make the argument that the decisions we at the FBI and I ultimately made in October had an influence on the election I don't know whether that's true I hope and pray it's not true I hope it doesn't sound odd to you it just increases the pain it doesn't change how I think about the decision that had to be made on October 28th because we couldn't make that decision thinking about whose electoral fortunes it would be helped or hurt and and so it doesn't change how I think about it believe it or not I hope some day my wife is actually here tonight was a strong Hillary Clinton supporter and she would like there to be a she would like you to be a scientific study that proves her husband was utterly irrelevant and I think that would be a wonderful thing but honestly it doesn't change looking backwards how I think about the terrible choices I faced until that scientific experiment is done do you accept that arguably after Putin perhaps no one had greater outside influence on that election than you I actually don't and here's why that that's a little bit like let's assume that my decision had an impact on the election it's a little bit like blaming the a kicker in American football for missing a field goal at the last second of a game that you were supposed to win by 40 points that that you could go back and say well okay well why did you have why did you talk about classified information on your server why did you not campaign in Michigan and Wisconsin and western Pennsylvania there's lots of questions to be asked as to why the election was that close that there could be a marginal influence by a decision but I try to stay away I just I just voiced a lot of the analysis I've heard I try and stay away from it because I knew when we made the decision the reason we hated the decision was there was a chance we have an impact on the election the question was which of the two options was the least terrible but I assumed we might have an impact and so that's how I think about it I don't know that I would ascribe that kind of responsibility to myself especially I look back over the significant events of the two years before that and so I'm not trying to dodge responsibility but I'm not trying to yank it and hug it to myself either let us go back let's start as it were give you a bit more of the story before we get to the end if I start you in July 2015 Hillary Clinton's the Democratic front runner you open that first investigation into Clinton and her personal email account and it's worth explaining because I think this is something that people often get wrong it wasn't that she wrote on Gmail exactly it was the question of whether classified information had been passed through an unclassified source exactly something gets lost all the time it doesn't matter how she's communicating so long as she's not communicating classified information on a system that's not supposed to contain that kind of information and you were trying to work out whether classified information had gone out of the system and what she was thinking if that had been the case that was the investigation essentially correct because we knew from long work with the counterespionage section of the Department of Justice which is the part of the department would handle the into the prosecution that without proof that the government employee knew they were doing something they shouldn't be doing they would never prosecute it they didn't prosecute mistakes or sloppiness even extraordinary sloppiness you had to prove the person knew they were communicating in a way that was prohibited within with classified information and that that's as it should be the rest was left for Discipline you get fired you get fine you get suspended but not prosecuted unless we could show that that mental intention to do something wrong so it is a criminal investigation that's opened and you talk about the background noise the drumbeat of the conservative media I think is your phrase the sense that it was unlikely to be a case that the Department of Justice would prosecute you knew that and yet you went ahead and you made that public now for many people that will have been the moment where your role changed you crossed the line you said I'm gonna go out there and I'm gonna tell the public exactly what I'm doing and you knew what the ramifications of that would be yes I got to back you up just a little bit we got that case referred to us publicly by one of the institutional watchdogs in the United States the intelligence community Inspector General they had done a review and saw lots of classified topics in her unclassified email system and so they sent it to the FBI as a referral career people in the FBI opened it to investigate because it was worthy of investigation we knew that unless we found something really interesting it probably wasn't gonna be something that would be prosecuted after ten months of investigation that seemed clearer and clearer to me and then the challenge was so how does the Obama Justice Department credibly close a criminal investigation of one of the two candidates for President of the United States and not just any candidate but the Democratic candidate who had been Secretary of State under President Obama how do you do that in a way that maintains the American people's trust and confidence in the institutions of Justice you're leaping your head no no I'm trying to say what I yeah you just opened the first one you've opened this understood you talked about the announcement at the end no I want to talk first of all about the July 2015 where you've opened it and you've made that public no we didn't make it public until three months later three months later so you're into the investigation and I think this is what you're referring to and he said either way it was going to play badly you just had to side which was worse than it was your was it your deputy director Giuliani who said Giuliano I should say very different years very different characters I must close with the second one anymore welcome onto him a bit later he said and I quote you know you're totally screwed right yeah so that sense that you and he both knew or both believed whatever course of action you did at that point will be the end right to take a current sports metaphor at that moment we were appointed the referee in a World Cup match that was going to be vicious and incredibly close down to the wire so there was a really good chance one team was gonna hate us now it turned out that both teams hated us well played but we knew at that moment we're stuck in the middle of this game the whole world is watching no matter what we do one half the political spectrum will be angry we could recommend charges that would anger the Democrats we could refuse to recommend charges I would anger the Republicans there's certain freedom in that by the way but what was interesting this you took it to the Attorney General Loretta Lynch and she advised you not to call it an investigation she took you aside and she said don't call it an investigation call it a matter yeah what did you sense she was trying to tell you in that what was that about I don't know for sure this was three months after we had started the investigation and our normal practice at the Department of Justice and the FBI is we don't confirm the existence of an investigation unless it's in the public interest to do so and so typically we would confirm an investigation to reassure the public that we're looking at something that they care about or to explain activity that would otherwise be evident and so after three months of refusing to confirm an investigation that the whole world knew we were doing because we were out interviewing people and the candidates were talking about it I asked to meet with the Attorney General because I was about to have a encounter with the press where I knew I'd be asked again and I said to Loretta who I like and like then and still like I said I think it's probably time for us to confirm that we're doing this and she said I agree but call it a matter and I said why would I do that and she said just call it a matter and that actually made the hair stand up on the back of my neck a little because the Clinton campaign had been struggling to avoid characterization of this as an investigation they'd called it a security referral a security review and so Loretta's direction to me we don't do matters we do investigations it's in our name and that that direction that that direction to me roughly tracked what the political people were doing and so I was that's what made the hair stand up I probably should have said Loretta come on can I just interpret those the hairs standing up yeah means that you felt she was acting on what Hillary Clinton would have preferred right now whether that was her intention or not I didn't know but it was it was eerily tracking the political effort to minimize the work do you think that was her phrase matter or do you think somebody had asked her to pass that on to you I don't know I don't know and look it's possible that for some reason unconnected to the political narrative she wanted me to lower the temperature on it but it was close enough in time and in language to the political effort to minimize that it concerned me which is why I asked her directly she's new and so I asked her directly why would I do that and she just gave me the order again which to my mind said the boss doesn't want to talk about this anymore but she's your boss so you do it correct and also thought it's kind of silly because the press as much as I love the press they're gonna miss the distinction if I say we're invested we're looking at that matter they're all gonna report I confirm the investigation I'm widget which is what happened yeah so this investigation gets underway you find so far nothing of substance and you're trying to close it in a way that still maintains confidence and Trust and what you do and for the American people at a time of sort of heightened political activity and then in early 2016 there was a development and you say this was a development that threatened to challenge that effort significantly a development still unknown to the American public to this day materials from classified source that could have cast doubt on the Attorney General's independence with a Clinton investigation yeah so what could have killed that confidence and Trust I have to choose my words carefully because it's still classified the FBI reviewed my book and approved me using precisely that language so I'm not going to be too expansive here there was material that was shared with the US government that I didn't believe was very it was real and that would be used by partisans to argue if it became public that Loretta Lynch was in cahoots with the Clinton campaign a source of dossier OCAD I don't want to characterize it but it was it was documents that would allow people to argue that now I didn't believe that because actually my only conversation with Loretta about the case had been that matter won and then as far as I could tell she didn't touch it again I also knew her and respected her but I mentioned this a couple times already faith and confidence in the perception of Justice is important is as important as the reality of justice and so I started to worry hm this actually could be used by people to argue that the Obama Justice Department is faintly compromised and is working on behalf of the Clinton campaign I don't want to get you into trouble and now you're sort of hands are tied but I'm just I'm trying to if you like explain it for it for a British audience what it could have be whether you think it was about her being offered a job as an attorney general under Clinton wouldn't have been in relation to her career path would have been in relation to Bill Clinton because he described this very odd meeting of the two of them on a private jet and a 20-minute conversation nobody else heard was a personal matter was it a career matter it reflected again I'm not crediting it although the the material is real some people have said it was a forgery no real information that I didn't believe but that that would they're related to her discharge of her official duties in connection with the investigation and would open her up and all of us the accusation that she was controlling the FBI for the benefit of the Clinton campaign and keeping them informed on what I was doing and the challenge was and the hard thing about talking about is not just the classification is I don't wanna hurt Loretta but this was real and a fine you about it to cheek she she didn't know about at the time we defensively briefed her told her about it later on but it was concerning enough that you actually see echoes of it in I'll give you a little bit of thing that the American press hasn't figured out yet you actually see echoes of it in the public text of Peter struck and Lisa Paige the two people who are writing on it there's a point in the early part of 2007 16 were they react to new information and start saying the director is now going to have to call for a special prosecutor that's what they were reacting to but it wasn't those lines just to bring you up to date with the unfamiliar names perhaps that the lines that they said will stop Trump we're gonna stop Trump no I think I don't know when that was but these were tell to make sure the folks know this sort of tale these were to a senior agent on the case and a junior lawyer each of whom were married to other people had a romantic relationship and to hide it from their spouses they used our phones to text with each other and I know this this may lead you to believe we don't have the brightest bulbs at the FBI but surely they would know we archive all of our texts at the FBI and so in these texts they're carrying on an affair and they're bad-mouthing everybody everybody and but they especially badmouth Donald Trump and so we'll probably get to that later but they react to this information that I'm talking about in those texts they don't disclose it in their text but they were and everybody on the team was very worried about this information now what consoled us was this isn't gonna become public until after I'm dead right this is so sensitive that'll be 50 years before the United States government Declassified it and so I thought you know it's a little worrisome and there were other things that had happened President Obama had twice given press interviews where he said there's really no case there with Hillary Clinton which he didn't know but I thought well this isn't gonna come out and so fifty years from now people may say ah looking back I wonder if there was an issue with the Attorney General just go back on that cuz it's really interesting President Obama went on TV he went on 60 minutes and he said Clinton's email use was a mistake now you think he actually jeopardized your whole investigations credibility by saying that sure I mean we're now in an entirely different world but at least then I was shocked that the President of the United States and was that something you would would you feel able to say that privately to him why did you do that that was an incredibly unhelpful thing I don't know again I didn't have one-on-one meetings with the president I'd say it's back in the good old days yeah and so I I don't know but I was really surprised by that and troubled he's a highly intelligent and principled person and so I don't know why he did it but again the central challenge is gonna be closing this case credibly with the American people the Obama Justice Department convincing the American people we did a credible investigation the President of the United States saying publicly there's no there they're severely undercut that so that was another brick in the load for my worry that we're gonna struggle to credibly end this thing so you're about to bring it to a close now we're on July the 15th 2016 and it's the end of the first investigation and you're writing drafts and you're trying to work out the right phrases you you should you say she was sloppy should you say she was grossly negligent should he say she was careless in the end you give that press conference the first time I think you became a recognizable public figure on the sort of world stage and you called Hillary Clinton a non criminal but extremely careless it was a choice of words that you came to regret yeah because my goal was to be transparent with the American people and by transparency describe what we found what we make of it and what we're recommending I wasn't trying to attack her but I figured I've got to characterize it in some way but I screwed up the characterization because I don't get to boring to lawyers here but that allowed people in Congress Republicans to seize on an old statute from 1917 that made gross negligence crime and say hi he says she committed gross negligence look at extremely careless they're the same thing what I was trying to do was say okay there's ordinary sloppiness where you leave a document in a Starbucks and then there's criminal conduct where you know you're doing stuff you shouldn't do and then there's this which actually is quite a bit above the Starbucks it doesn't quite get here I should have said actually really sloppy to characterize it in a way that people could understand but by choosing extremely careless I walked into this whole sideshow about this old statute you had at that point done something which broke with protocol you knew that you said you were personally offering the American people unusual transparency so just the the fact that the FBI director was going out making this speech choosing his words carefully you're already again cross that line you'd sort of entered into the public dare I say political sphere at that point I get why you say that I actually think about it differently I entered into the public sphere to offer the American people transparency so they would believe their institutions of justice had acted honestly competently and independently we were investigating one of the two candidates for President of the United States the Attorney General had a variety of things that made it difficult for her to announce it if we've done the normal thing and just said one-line no case here a corrosive doubt not driven by Fox News or political wing nuts but by ordinary Americans about William what's the deal here would have crept in and undercut the credibility of really important institutions and I had the ability to do something the department justice has long done in extraordinary cases where the public has great interest we've long given them lots of details about cases that we didn't charge so they knew we did it in a good way Ferguson Missouri is an example with a terrible killing of Michael Brown by a police officer in Ferguson Missouri the FBI investigated that we brought no charges against the police officer but we published an 80 some page report on the entire investigation because the people deserved that transparency so my thinking here was we are never gonna get out of this incredibly without transparency what I did that broken norm was I stepped away from the Attorney General to offer that transparency I stepped away from my boss and I I was doing that on purpose and I knew I would get enormous heat for it so the story ends there yes we're done except of course it doesn't because 12 days before the election itself you reopen that investigation after your teen found hundreds of thousands of emails on the laptop of Anthony Weiner the ex-husband of Clinton's aged Huma Abedin so that is the moment which presumably you have played over and over in your head and many of us here in the audience will have done the same why did you go public why did you open it then why didn't you wait there would be a totally coherent rational position to say you know what this may have to be done but I just need more time I'm not gonna say anything now yeah the biggest nightmare of my professional life hardest decision I've ever been part of I'm sitting there 11th this 12 days before the election when we started debating what to do and I've been told we need to reopen this investigation because we've found hundreds of thousands of her emails remember we only found an entire universe of 30,000 originally she turned over 30,000 to the Department of State and she deleted another 30,000 this is hundreds of thousands of her emails and something much more important than that we never found any emails from her first three months as Secretary of State because then she was using a blackberry a personal blackberry account and we never found any remember we opened by talking about the importance of intent if there was going to be evidence that Hillary Clinton knew she was doing something with classified information she shouldn't do it would likely be then when somebody emailed her back saying hey boss you can't talk about this kind of stuff on unclassified system so I'm sitting there with the investigative team they said boss there are hundreds of thousands of emails and we think we may have found the missing emails this could change the result and the Department of Justice this is something people overlook the Obama Department of Justice believes we have to get a search warrant so everybody agreed with that we need to reopen so what do I do I have told Congress and so has the Attorney General repeatedly under oath in the summer and the American people were done here there's no case here and the Republicans screamed that we were corrupt and we fought back and said no no there's nothing here this is done the American people can rely on it now it's October 27th and that's not true anymore in a huge way and the whole thing may change oh my god the norm that I've lived my entire career by the no rules about this but a norm is if you can avoid action and then run up to an election you avoid action that might have any impact on the election my problem was I'm sitting there twelve days before the election and I can only see two actions I can speak or I can conceal if I speak that'll be really bad it's 12 days before an election oh my god what about the other one if I can seal from the American people in Congress that they're relying on a lie I believe I'll destroy the FBI for the rest of my natural life forget about me the institution will be destroyed I cannot conceal and so there's only tight no one's ever come up with another choice for me speak or be silent speak or conceal and everybody might reach a different conclusion but you stare at that on October 28th and tell me that's not the hardest decision you've seen and we debated and debated and debated and I asked my staff tell the Attorney General I think I have to tell Congress and word came back saying she thinks that's a bad idea but she doesn't want to speak to you about it except this is where you appear guilty of double standards because you knew the FBI knew there was a concurrent FBI investigation into the alleged links between Trump's team and Russia you knew that but you decided not to share that with the public so the thing that is really hard to understand is faced with this awful speak conceal speak conceal everyone's on your side but then you throw in the fact that there was this other investigation into the other side and you did conceal that yeah I get why people say that but you have to stare at the facts to see how very very different the situations are the Hillary Clinton investigation began with a public referral we wouldn't talk about it for three months even though it had begun with a public referral a public document sent to us three months later we said were doing this work and we wouldn't talk about it again until we finished it and she was the target of that investigation it was about her and we finished the investigation the Russia counterintelligence investigation was not focused on Donald Trump we opened it in late July to try and figure out are any Americans working with the Russians on this massive effort that we see going on with the Russians but wouldn't that have been worth telling them well I guess I'd have to ask me what what do you imagine me saying to the American people American people want you to know this we've just opened an investigation we don't know where there's anything to it it doesn't involve Donald Trump but involve some people who are peripheral to his campaign not key people but we don't know his anything there but we thought you ought to know that but that's kind of the same as the Weiner emails isn't it you know he wasn't part of that you found emails that you didn't yet know would lead directly it very nicely okay i but I see it very very differently because we've already spoken about the closure of that investigation which is what puts us on the horns of that dilemma speak or conceal and so I see it as very very different it was actually so obvious to everyone involved that our norms did not justify any talk about a brand new counterintelligence investigation that it never came up I don't remember anybody raising should we talk about this what we wrestled with what President Obama wrestled with was should we tell the American people about what the Russians are doing and not whether we're trying to figure out where their Americans are part of it what should we tell them about this big effort that we just figured out in actually we've figured it out starting in the middle of June when they start to release stolen documents they come back to something we talked about earlier it was then that I conclude remember I said that the classified stuff will come out after I'm dead no no no in the middle of June all of a sudden it dawned on me that stuff about Loretta Lynch that's coming now this was when the the Russian hacked email started appearing that's the beginning of the that's coming now another reason I thought I love Loretta I got to get away from her to announce this result then come forward to the summertime what do we say about the broader investigation I actually offered to be the voice of inoculation to the American people I wrote an op-ed that we were going to send to the New York Times where I said hey American people the Russians are coming for our election they're trying to interfere with it it's a massive effort cyber and all kinds of other things and the administration didn't take me up on it President Obama wrestled with it all the way until October wasn't there a problem though that you felt she was always gonna win but somewhere you'd made a calculation that you had to keep her presidency clean that you know once again the drum pee that the conservative media was ringing in your ears and you didn't shut out the polls or the press or the pundits and you thought well she's gonna be President you made that assumption didn't you not consciously I didn't I really worked hard to keep out of my conscious deliberations any consideration of the polls or politics in my book I guess I've made a mistake for a Washington related book I try to be introspective and so I asked myself that question the whole world thought she was gonna be President could that have influenced my decision and they understand sir has to be of course it could influence my decision I actually don't think it changes the decision it just made it easier in a way if Donald Trump were up by 20 points in the polls I still can't conceal that because it will still destroy the FBI but if Hillary Clinton is going to be the next president it's easy to avoid concealing because you will her her presidency will be doomed from the moment she takes office because the FBI covered up for her to allow her to get elected as you know Hillary Clinton believes that ultimately cost her the election when we spoke in April I asked you if you'd talk to her about this at all presumably you still haven't no I haven't I don't know her I've never spoken to her at all that's odd there's been no private communication no no communication at all between the two of you I don't I don't think it's odd I think we'll be out if I reached out to her that maybe I don't mean that facetiously I look that that she's a person for reasons that I totally understand is in a lot of pain I understand why she focuses on me at least in part for the source of that pain that makes me feel bad I can't help that I have nothing against her I wasn't trying to hurt her I've read her that chapter of her book where she talks about she thinks I shift her with a prison homemade knife kind of thing and if I talked to her I would say I'm not trying to plug my book to you Secretary Clinton I'm sure she's got numerous copies well if she could just read those two chapters of the book she won't agree with me maybe she won't but she can't walk away thinking that I shift her that I was trying to help elect Donald Trump president and because it's just not true and it's any of that kind that would actually be gratifying if she could take that away we're gonna move on to Donald Trump in a moment so before I do just before we do though the Department of Justice report came out last week it called you insubordinate not politically biased but insubordinate um I wonder if you think that you have permanently damaged the institution of the FBI and what you did I certainly don't think permanently damaged I think the decisions I had to make damage first of all they did a lot of damage to me and my reputation but they they did damage the institution but compared to what I had choices to make between bad and worse and I know it's hard to live imaginary lives but I think if I had chosen to let Loretta Lynch announced the closing of it and most importantly if I had concealed in October the Inspector General will be writing a report about how I destroyed the institutions do you accept insubordinate as a finding I kind of do and I didn't at first I had an emotional reaction when I saw that I said that's nonsense she dumped it on me Loretta Lynch at the end of June after she met privately with with Bill Clinton on an airplane and the world blew up in the United States without consulting with me announced publicly I'm not going to step out of this investigation but I will accept Jim Comey's recommendation and that of the career prosecutors and so the notion that I was insubordinate by taking that that was handed to me and announcing my recommendation and my initial reaction was that can't be right it's actually fair because of this way I intentionally did not tell her what I was going to say and I'm her subordinate she would normally expect that I would tell her what I was going to say so in that sense I was insubordinate and that's a painful thing for a career person like me to absorb I still believe it was the right thing to do I think the criticism is fair but I think it was the right thing to do I'm gonna fast forward now to January 2017 you're on your way to Trump Tower you're going to tell president-elect Trump about a secret dossier we know it as the Christopher steel dossier allegations of misconduct conspiracy between Trump's campaign team and the Russian government and this is taking place in New York in Trump Tower and I think what you described is a sort of gold curtain room what's going through your head there were two parts to this briefing and it was ordered by President Obama after the election he directed the FBI the CIA the NSA under the leadership of the Director of National Intelligence to pull together all the American government's intelligence on what the Russians did and how we know it and so that effort lasted about a month and in early January President Obama's deadline he was briefed on it in the Oval Office and then the leaders of Congress were briefed and then we flew to New York to meet the incoming president and his team and so there were two parts to the briefing the first was the Director of National Intelligence was telling the president-elect about the findings of this entire report and that I was not nervous about that part of the briefing the next part was the part that gave me a pain in my stomach was that I had drawn the assignment to stay behind a meet alone with the president-elect to brief him on a portion of the material from what's now known as the steel dossier that made salacious allegations about his engagement with prostitutes in Moscow during a visit to the Miss Universe pageant in 2013 and the intelligence community thought and and cleared this with this is the one that the American press even mr. Lee call pp gate right here it's about the prostitutes being ordered by President Trump to pee piss on the bed in which the Obamas once stayed in a Moscow hotel right is that words that have never left my lips not to him you didn't actually say that to him right no I and that I don't like to say any of it but but my assignment was and President Obama was told this is the way we're gonna approach it that because I was staying and that the CIA leader was leading the Director of National Intelligence was leaving and the FBI has counterintelligence responsibilities we couldn't keep this secret from the president-elect we thought it was about to become public so we'd only keep secrets from the new president and one of the ways if there's anything to it and we didn't know where was anything to it but if it's anything to it one of the ways the FBI defeats efforts to blackmail is we go to the person who might be blackmail and said hey we want you to know we know about this did you believe any of it I didn't believe it actually when I first saw it I didn't believe it at all and that my view changed a little bit on that how much of it do you believe now know the things I never this I will actually say I think it's possible that it's true oh well all of it's a hard thing I mean the whole salacious stuff then yeah the incident at the Miss Universe I think it's possible it's true now I can't assign up a percentage to the probability but it's it's nonzero and I say that I you know I'm I know it's funny but I'm not saying it to be funny it's just based on my encounters with the president after he became president that his is constantly bringing it up in order to deny it so he knew all this he knew what you were going to tell I don't know no I don't know that and so the plan was I will stay behind to meet with the president-elect alone to tell him this as my first meeting with him and and so that was the part I was I'm not sure how much I was paying attention to the first meeting because the second meeting was gonna be very difficult and so we did that I met along with him and it was such a stressful thing for me I actually remember looking down on myself from the ceiling like an out-of-body experience I'm talking to the president-elect about prostitutes how did I end up here and and so but I don't know not his reaction did not tell me one way or another whether he knew what I was going to say but I didn't go into the some of the details you went into I wanted to put him on notice so I just talked about prostitutes in Moscow Ritz I think I said Ritz Carlton Miss Universe pageant if that doesn't do it I don't need to go any further and so that that's what I told him about this was one of the first of many Cajuns that you found yourself alone with him you described a dinner as sort of an early dinner that he's booked with you and he demands your loyalty and all the hairs on your neck going up again at that point yeah and it surprised me that all I could think of in the moment was don't move don't blink don't don't twitch so I just stared at him and if I'd been more prepared for that I might've had something better to do but I just stared but why wasn't your response to say mr. president that's not my job yeah that's what I meant by the better to do was that going through your head at all did he think I have to shut this down and explain to him what my role is right now shut this down is difficult with any president again you're alone with the president United States just taken office so I don't be too hard on myself it would take someone unusual in that moment to say mr. president me tell you what's supposed to work and especially with this president given his style of interaction it's just waves of words to get something in you have to adapt on sort of auditioning me for your own job right do you still want it are you gonna stay on would you like to carry on you're right I'm ready that's right before the loyalty request that's when I started to get a weird feeling because he had already several times told me he hoped I was staying and now he was talking like I needed to ask for my job and so that was odd and then he directly asked for my loyalty and again all I could think of in the moment was don't respond just stare at him he then broke we stared each other for a couple seconds which is a long time alone with the president when he just asked you a question and then he looked down at his salad and we continued on but I got better because then I used other opportunities during the conversation to interrupt which you have to do to interrupt to stress the importance of the independence the distance why it matters so much why it's a paradox I said to him so many presidents think they have to pull the justice institutions close because trouble comes from there and it makes things worse we have to be at a distance and so by the time he came back around to asking me again for loyalty I had been able to get this in the things that if I'd had the presence of mind to do I would have front-loaded but I got it in but you've started writing memos at this point now I'm curious because the memos are notes that you know you need to make to record these conversations did you imagine you must have imagined that they would one day we made public point no I didn't actually I thought it's possible but that I needed them in the event there was ever a dispute about these conversations to protect the FBI and to protect myself because we were talking about things that touched on him personally and that affected the core of the FBI's responsibilities and me personally and honestly that he might lie about it and so I never did that with President Obama I never didn't with President Bush but I thought I have to have a contemporaneous record God willing I'll never need it but if there's a circumstance where it becomes germane and the president's gonna lie about it I need a record right and it hits a height when he asks you to drop the investigation into his security advisor Michael Flynn might flown over Russian connections you are sure he said that to you there is no question in your mind that he asks you to drop that investigation because he denies it of course yes I'm aware of that I am I am absolutely certain and here's how you know how certain I am I testify not only did I write a memo about it right afterwards I testified under oath about that conversation in front of the United States Senate last June when I thought there were tapes I thought as president Trump tweeted at me that I better hope there aren't tapes of our conversations I went and testified it on about it under oath believing there might be an audio tape from the Oval Office because I know what that audio tape would say so just back to that meeting he's told you to drop the investigation who do you tell who do you trust in the White House who do you look to as your sort of mature States men and women to go to in the White House there was nobody to go to I went back and met with the leadership team at the FBI General Counsel my chief of staff the deputy director I think there was no one there was no one who reported to trump who advised him in his close circle that you felt you could say this is this is getting dangerous no I had tried to have a conversation like that with his chief of staff a week before you're talking about a meeting happened on Valentine's Day February 14th week before that I'd gone there to speak to the president's chief of staff and one of the things we talked about was the importance of communications with the FBI by the White House going through regular channels and I laid out how it was supposed to work at the end of that meeting he said hey do you want to see the president okay so we're now in May of 2017 you've had the chicken supper and a few of these meetings and the Mike Flynn thing and chicken parmesan chicken parmesan the prawn salad I remember the many and you are not in Washington I think you're in Arizona or you and you hear the news when I get fired that you've been fired I'm in Los Angeles speaking to employees and I see it on TVs at the back of the room actually at first it said Comey resigns and I knew that wasn't true and so I thought it was a prank I turned to my staff you probably believe this but the FBI is a hilarious place my staff was over here to my right and I turned to them and said that took a lot of work and then I went back talking to the employees and then it changed and said Comey fired and I thought okay they're not that's not them and that's how I found out without you being fired there would be no Muller investigation presumably Steve Bannon called the firing of Jim Comey the worst political mistake in modern history what he meant was that you weren't about to hold back the gloves were off and everyone would get to know everything do you sense that if you hadn't been fired we wouldn't be having the Muller investigation I don't know we might have that because the Department of Justice was still trying to sort out how they were going to supervise that investigation because the Attorney General was about to recuse himself step away from anything related to Russia and I knew that was coming which is why I couldn't go to him to tell him about this and the incoming number two had promised during his confirmation hearings that he would look at the question of whether they should appoint a special prosecutor to handle this so it's possible that even if I hadn't been fired there would still be a special prosecutor I think would hasten the appointment of the special prosecutor is that I caused the world to know about Donald Trump's request on Valentine's Day that I dropped the investigation and do you think and I put tremendous pressure on the Department of Justice is your sense at this point going back to the other Giuliani the one you're not so fond of that we will see a closure to the mole investigation that is satisfactory depends of what your definition of satisfactory is do you think well but Muller will be allowed to finish his job I do I think despite the noise that it's likely you know you never want to say for certain with our president but it's likely that he's figured out that not only would it be politically disastrous to fire Muller it would be ineffective because the Department of Justice is almost entirely made up of career people somebody else would pick up if not the whole thing pieces of the investigation and you can only fix it by firing everyone in the FBI or the Department of Justice Deaton that can't happen do you think the Muller investigation will ultimately find there were connections between Trump himself and Russia I don't know what is your gut feeling I don't have a gut feeling because I don't know what he's developed since I left I can only say one thing with certainty well two things everything you've read in the media about Bob Mahler's investigation is uninformed because there been no leaks from Bob Miller's operation and so we none of us Gooding may have any idea what he knows we've seen the charges against 19 different people which shows he's working very quickly but I don't know where he'll end up except my second certainty is if he's left to do his job he will find the collection of facts that allows us to see what the truth is and I hope Democrats aren't I know they are but they shouldn't be rooting for a particular outcome Republicans shouldn't be we should be rooting for the truth if Bob Muller can do his job we will be able to see the truth and I don't know what it'll be I really don't it's entirely possible he will find there is not credible evidence that President Trump either participated or knew about conspiracy with the Russians in connection with their election interference it's possible he'll conclude Donald Trump did not have the requisite state of mind under American law to obstruct justice even when he I didn't mean that as a shot at him but I see what you're doing I want to open it up to questions in a second just before I do because we're right on the cusp of an extraordinary moment in Trump's own political fortunes dare I say in the heartbeat of America right now we saw the President Roh back on the child separation immigration policy last night a sign presumably that he saw how damaging that had been a question from somebody earlier via Twitter asked me to put to you are American children safer in schools or cages which probably gives you a sense of how that whole thing was received here and the questions that the world has about it what are your thoughts on that it was horrible immoral conduct that may serve as an inflection point for America the challenge in America is we go through these our line is always upward sloping but it's a jagged line we make progress we retrenched you react we make progress we were chance to react and the turning point between the ending of a retrenchment and more progress is often what I call the awakening of the Giant the American people are a bell-curve at the wings our wing nuts from the far left and the far right they're passionate they follow politics all of that at the middle is the sleeping giant it's the embodiment of the values of the American people they're not following politics they're raising their kids every so often in American history they awaken they awakened when dogs bit children in Birmingham Alabama and children were killed with bombs in Birmingham Alabama in 1963 and as a result of that Lyndon Johnson changed our country because all Americans vast majority supported voting rights for black Americans civil rights for black Americans every so often the giant is awakened by something that offends no matter where you are in the political spectrum I don't want to say this was worth it but if there's good to come out of this it may be stirring the giant and that's why Donald Trump ran so fast and lied so much about this policy because he one thing he is gifted at is sensing the Giants awakening he can feel it and the Republicans could feel it and they ran from this if there's good to come from children being in cages in my beloved country it's the giant awakens and realizes our values are at stake now forget immigration forget taxes forget guns important issues we are a collection of ideas in the United States of America and they are values and if we lose those we're done the giant awakens and focuses on those values our country changes we see though here in Europe a creeping authoritarianism in Poland now in Hungary the response to migration initially the idea of a census for the Roma I'm wondering whether you sense that America is in its own grip of the rise of a new fascism no America is reacting as it has done so many times throughout its history one of the reasons I'm an optimist is I know American history we have been here before our country was in the grip of Joseph McCarthy from 1950 to 1954 we're in the grip of the Ku Klux Klan from 1922 1924 all as a result of a reaction to tremendous change in progress we just had a period not only the financial downturn we are on a path to becoming a majority minority country I think that's a really cool thing that's deeply unsettling we elected a black black president we have globalization depriving people of their blue-collar jobs in middle America that's deeply unsettling and as a result we have a reaction to that donald trump's not a cause he's a reflection he's a product of this unsettling inevitably the fever breaks in america and the central values reassert themselves has happened so many times before it will happen again our job as Americans is to drive the conversation to shorten the period of recovery and to waken the giant as fast as we can to speed that recovery okay we're going to open the floor to questions if we can have some lights up then I can see you a bit more oh that's much better [Music] finished yet we haven't finished yet it's your turn and as I said at the beginning if you can keep them as tight and concise as you can we get lots more in rights let's do them in order thank you hi Rebecca Windsor here I thank you for talking it was absolutely amazing short question Donald Trump's approval rating is surprisingly rising recently she's trying to bring this child Caitlyn cages policy on Democrats and fox news's his constant cheerleader do you think there's a chance of him being reelected okay so will Donald Trump be reelected don't answer that one yet we've got this lady here number five Mike number five thank you CNBC my question really is them so did Trump has repeatedly broken and long-established protocols and for example Trump tweeting recently about the forthcoming jobs report that prompted a shift in financial markets as traders speculated strong employment figures it was a move that essentially violated procedures aimed at avoiding market-moving disclosures oh that so sorry so my question is what do you see for the futures will these so-called longest stablished protocols be once again restored after the Trump administration okay or have Trump's actions set precedents for a tenuous White House relationship right so for example tweeting job figures breaking the the market rules by treating job figures are we going to go back or has he broken those protocols for good that's number two and sir yes thank you how likely do you think it is for the giant to weaken up in time for the midterm elections there we go you can choose your order so do you think Trump will get reelected because his approval rating seemed actually to be holding in some cases growing do you think the protocols who's broken will remain broken and will the giant awakened in time for November for the midterms yeah great questions and and they connect obviously in a lot of ways I'll take the reelection first it's possible in this way he has the reliable support at least so far of in the upper-30s percent of the people in opinion polls which seems depressing until you realized that Richard Nixon on the day he resigned had a 36 or 37 percent approval rating there's always gonna be a portion of America that for reasons that we've touched on here today believes that there's a the trade of the impact on our values for the policy gains is worth it it's just always gonna be that way the vast majority his numbers have creeped up towards forty percent still historically low the vast majority disagree if they turn out and vote which is one of the things I'm trying to accomplish I'm never gonna run for office but I need people to vote their values so that the giant awakens and participates in the election but he's counting on this that the Democrats will pick someone from the far left it talked about the wings and the nuts at the wings that they'll pick someone far left and that will lead the great middle to stay home they won't vote for that they won't vote for him but they'll stay home or an independent candidate will be compelled to run in the middle and he'll get reelected with thirty four thirty five percent of the vote it's possible I don't know whether it's likely it's also possible that he sees if it shakes out the Democrats picks someone who can actually attract run on a values campaign and attract the middle he may decide he's already made America great I'm going back to casinos or whatever it is so that's the first will will the giant awake and then I'll come to the normal inevitably yes the only thing new is the history you don't know I have a pretty good sense of American history and the patterns of it the giant always awakens now sometimes it takes a while Winston Churchill said you can always count on Americans do the right thing after they have exhausted all other possibilities they do you think in terms of the the midterms do you think Donald Trump can hold always John senator hold on to the house I don't I don't know whether awakened in time for the midterms these children in cages is a big big deal for all the right reasons being horrifying and touching our core values as Americans and so we'll see there's an energy in America that's inspiring right now we have record numbers of women running for political office [Applause] we have kids engaging in ways they haven't in a generation or more on issues across not just guns but on lots of issues we have people and I don't mean this sarcastically there's a renewed appreciation by Republicans for Barack Obama and by Democrats for george w bush because those are very different people but they were both traditionalists and institutionalists who respected the office and so people are starting to rise above the reason I called this book a higher loyalty is to me all of leadership in life is about looking first at the things at the higher level the values so I see that happening and being hastened by what's happening to these kids and I think we may see us maybe a slightly groggy giant but a much more awakened giant come November than even today now in terms of the norms President Trump has broken all kinds of norms the norms about the control of jobs figures and those sorts of things are very important to my mind not as important as the norm that we judge our presidents by their tether to the truth we will get back to our norms but our recovery period will be longer or shorter based on how we act today we cannot become numb to the destruction of the norms and I'll make it very personal president of the United States of America wakes up nearly every week some morning and tweets that I should be in jail okay I laugh I actually does not bother me at all because I know it's silly there's nothing there I'm not worried at all and then I stop myself and say shame on you you are becoming numb to the President of the United States of America pronouncing the incarceration of a private citizen and so I refuse to be numb one of the reasons I'm doing this is I refuse to be numb and I'm going to talk about this until it's no longer necessary to talk about if we don't become numb he will still break norms but the next president United States I don't care who it is who he or she is what party they're from they will take office talking about values and norms and tradition and respect and Prejudice and all the values that have been offended by this president they will have to and we will make it easier for them maybe put some pressure on them by not forgetting what's going on here today that's going to be three more questions if we can from the circle this time number seven yeah there is you may raise the issue of potentially being jailed by Republican president you've got a Republican Congress there's a whole lot of pressures in the system which might lead to another Republican Congress after this one and possibly the reelection of Trump have you thought that the best option for you would be to go down the road to the Ecuadorian Embassy in the sauna because you both seem to be very very good at leaking American secrets right okay so in the style of Julian Assange a sweet yeah are you a leaker of American secrets sir I'll take your question next and then I'll come to this side is there a lady there yet number six there sir recent reports have shown that while you're conducting in the investigation into Hillary Clinton's emails that you were using your own private gmail account don't you think that that's a bit hypocritical and that cast a shadow over the FBI yep okay the gmail account yeah I'd like to ask about tampering with voting machines and whether you're aware of any credible reports that voting machines were tampered with in such a way that would affect the tally yeah voting machines okay let's take one more so there's a lady behind you yep I'm wondering that what the chances do you think of the giant going back to sleep if Trump is not really like it the joint going back to slugger if it's fine okay you're ahead of me on that one though right so just in summary them Julian Assange Gmail's voter machines and the giant yep I don't need the Asajj suite at the Ecuadorian Embassy for two reasons first that would be exactly what I don't want to do which is withdrawing from the conversation in the United States and I defy anyone to show where I have disclosed classified information in anything that I've said or written or done second point that's the Gmail answer right Asante okay [Music] second the the gmail thing yeah it's absolutely true that I wrote my own speeches as director of the FBI that I would write them at home on my personal laptop and then send them to my office account these public speeches on my gmail account to my government account and if I want to keep working on the draft I would then send it back home then send it back into my office it reflects a fundamental misunderstanding and I'm sorry to say even by Hillary Clinton herself about what the investigation was about you said this at the beginning it was not about her use of a non governmental email system I don't care it was about did she mishandled classified information by talking about it on an unclassified system there is not any accusation that any of my speeches involve classified information so I I guess I get why it was included in the report but it reflects a confusion about what the investigation was what was the next one facing machines voting machines the good news is no just to explain that yes she never found any evidence that the vote itself was hacked that Russian hackers or anybody else reached down to the precinct level to the machines the great thing about the American electoral system is it's a huge hairball that there's no centralization whatsoever it's an old lady and an old man wheeling something out under the basketball hoop at a gym it's very very difficult to penetrate we never found any evidence of penetration we found evidence that the Russians had penetrated voter registration databases at the state level but and we're not actually sure what they were doing with that but that they never went attempted or got to a voting machine and the fourth one and the fourth one was oh the giant if it goes back to sleep so could there be more Trump and more unconsciousness there will be I mean the pattern of American history is there will be it will happen again it's happened many times in our history Abraham Lincoln was followed by a man named Andrew Johnson as president to the United States he was a raving race and a demagogue who immediately reversed reconstruction in a civil war south he was a terrible person he was followed by ulysses s grant who despite corruption issues did extraordinarily good things for newly freed black americans and reinstated Reconstruction America a lot of Americans here you all know this it's this amazing bumpy diverse occasionally screwed-up mostly wonderful collection of people that shouldn't exist right we're not unified by race nationality ethnicity religion any of the normal things that cause a nation to form we formed around a set of values that's a recipe for some wonderful things and for tremendous volatility in our country and we've seen it since we started is a book I would recommend to you not my own book called the soul of America by Jon Meacham that I just finished where he traces these patterns of American history I left that book consoled that we have been screwed up so many times before that we will not only recover from this we will be screwed up again I think that might be the first the only book tour where you actually recommend somebody else's book as a spirit too of that I'm gonna go right up to the top to the I think we call that the balcony number eight yes hello can I ask if you could go back to September October 2016 knowing what you know now so knowing about the Trump Tower meeting knowing about all of the interactions between Trump associates and trend campaign officials and Russia and knowing that there was a real possibility that Trump would be elected president what would you do anything differently okay what and why what do you would you do anything differently if you could live that again and number nine hi my name is Nina mohanty I'm an American citizen as well living here I wanted to thank you so much for your service I once had a dream of working for the FBI and I no longer do so what advice would you give to young Americans like myself who feel a strong calling to serve but feel a bit disillusioned or put off public service right now given the political climate great ok thank you very much is there anyone up there is there one more up there I'll take one more hi my name is Chloe Thomas I'm at the student at the University of Virginia I was wondering if you think that there'll be Russian interference in the upcoming midterms if you think so I didn't hear that Russia interference okay let's I'm gonna put Russia in big bold capitals now and ask you to expand on Russia interference how far do you think it goes do you think it's in the midterms do you think it was part of anything that happened here with the brexit vote do you think it has changed the way elections have gone since 2016 or before if you don't mind me piggybacking onto the rest of that and the other two questions this lady says she'd like to work for the FBI but feels very disillusion now about gained public service in America and what would you change if you could go back to September October 2016 yeah what would I change question I've asked myself that probably not a million times but probably a thousand times and I've asked myself this question if I knew what I know now would I do something deeply unprincipled in October and concealed and that's a hard question I I'd like to think I would still do what I did I would still even knowing the future no I can't do that as director of the FBI I can make decisions based on my assessment of politicians and one of the searing moments on October 27th was one of the best lawyers I had was a woman who was very quiet and brilliant and I used to have to draw her into conversations because if you could get words to come out of her mouth you needed to listen to them and she actually volunteered and said should you consider that what you're about to do may help elect Donald Trump President of the United States and ice thank you for asking that question because I suspect it was on a lot of minds I said not for a moment because down that path lies the death of the FBI as an independent force in America if I ever start making calls that way we're just another partisan tribe so I don't think I would do anything different but it would be an even harder decision if I was back there now able to see the future can I talk about the FBI recruit for the FBI hmm one of the reasons fact the main reason I wrote a book is not to write about Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton's emails but to write about ethical leadership so that I could offer a vision especially to young people of what it can be and what it should be so they don't withdraw we need you so much we need you so much and we can't have you saying it's just so icky and pulling back from public service from public life we have to have you and so what I hope to do is show people there's a whole lot of good people making really hard decisions but in a thoughtful ethical way and it's really cool to do moral work work with moral content it doesn't pay any money it's incredibly stressful it's addictive and one of the things I hope with the book is to show people that vision of leadership and what it's like to choose to do good for a living you will never regret it but there's a chance today young people are gonna pull back now I said to you already see in the United States they're resisting that they're literally out in the street participating but it's still a danger Russia the last one was about Russia lady was asking specifically about Russia interference in the midterms if we can just piggyback on that and because there's a lot of debate as well in this country about what those Russia interference in the brexit vote or other causes so I want to be very careful about I don't want to answer the question about brexit that's a question that the UK authorities should answer it's a very important question to ask because of the nature of Russia's active measures campaigns they actively and regularly interfere in proceedings of the West with the overwhelming goal being to divide us and weaken us and undermine our democracy ah cracy they came for our election not because of Donald Trump or because of Hillary Clinton they came overwhelmingly because they don't want America or the UK to be a shining city on the hill to inspire other democracies they want to show the world it's just as corrupt and dirty as anything else don't listen to them now in our case Putin also happened to hate Hillary Clinton and decided he likes businesspeople he can make deals with them he liked Donald Trump they succeeded beyond their wildest dreams their wildest dreams not only did Donald Trump get elected president who refuses to criticize even in private Vladimir Putin but look at the division that we see in our country right now so you bet you they're coming back for 2018 they will sure be back in the United States in 2020 and I'm very worried I've been out of the government for over a year so I don't know for sure but I see indications that we are not doing much to try to meet that threat the outgoing director of the NSA and someone I very much liked Admiral Mike Rogers testified publicly that he has tools that could be used to thwart that threat that are not being deployed because he has not been given the authority Mike Rogers is a guy who does not say much that's deeply concerning so they will be back and we will not be adequately prepared for it why not why do you think there's no one on the well on either side on Republicans or Democrats side that are willing to implement what you need to do to stand up that well I think the only thing you can point out is the executive branch led by Donald Trump because Democrats don't have the power and there's a reluctance that I honestly can't fully explain by the president personally to take action adverse to Russia there's energy in the Congress to do that even energy I gather from media accounts and lower levels in the White House not in the President himself I don't know whether that's there's a causal connection between that and what Admiral Rogers were saying but it seems reasonable to me we've got about five more minutes let's take some yeah we're back down here make them really good ones number five Michael Flynn but not that's bolt for the door what do you think of this whole breaks it malarkey what do you think this breaks it malarkey what do you think of doing yeah right what do you think of brexit that's kind of open um part from the malarkey bit um yes I les Liberto former Clinton Foundation employee curious um how do you think the media plays into sort of the current situation and what extended and played out with your investigation and if the media is doing it wrong if perhaps they contributed to the election of Donald Trump the role of media in in swerving in in in the election itself and covering the and McLaren yep absolutely and three hi Ben Miller you said 28th of October 2016 was such a tough decision nine days later you went to Congress and said actually no problem despite several hundred thousand emails you went through during that period of time you must become increasingly confident there wasn't an issue had you waited 24 hours of 48 hours you don't know more had you waited four days you'd have known more surely there was no reason to decide on the 28th to speak you could have waited a few days you could have gained some confidence where there was something really there before you put your nose into election okay did everyone get that so why would you open an investigation on the 28th that you thought was gonna take you forever actually that stayed you had hundreds of thousands of new emails on their Weiner laptop and yet actually it was all over and done with in nine days so right why didn't you wait why didn't you wait a few days to see what your head writes a good question um start with brexit malarkey I'm feeling this one's gonna be short not to disappoint Michael Flynn wants to know about brexit I I don't think I am I'm in a position to comment as an American it doesn't make much sense to me as someone who just flew from London City Airport to Berlin and then from Hamburg back here I can only imagine what a pain in the rear it's gonna be down the road and how bad that will be for commerce in the UK I don't know why you would do that honestly do you think it's gonna happen if you'll sense what it won't happen no disease bug there's a book wisdom of the crowd sometimes the crowd is not wise right do I think it's gonna happen do I think it's gonna happen I don't know that I'm not I'm not informed enough to tell you whether it's gonna happen or not so that's the malarkey answer role of the media in a selection and now in supporting and criticizing Trump that's a such a great question that calls for a long and probably more sophisticated answer that I can give but let me just pick a couple of pull a couple of threads one is the current structure of the media and the nature of human brains creates a craving for the next conflict conflict narrative conflict narrative conflict narrative car accidents we can't look away from even though we tell ourselves we won't you wait in line because of a traffic jams of car accident you will look at the car accident when you get up there because you've earned it and that's the way people think and so I don't know what to do about that that the attention is so short and the craving for conflict is so extraordinary and this is one of Donald Trump's several reflections of his genius he sees that he knows that he can tell a lie that's a there's a crime wave in Germany that's false and then you're told the facts and then he repeats it the next day so whatever this was this is a lie because you know it's not true now that was I think yesterday or the day before it's gone in America because we're on to the next thing the next thing and I don't have a great answer for that first second the the media is now obviously much larger than journalism the way in which we receive information share information process information leaves us very susceptible to tribalism and manipulation in America we frankly didn't need the Russians to so division we do that so incredibly well through Facebook and Twitter on our own I'm on Twitter I don't read Twitter comments there's some ugliness out there it's a reflection and it also produces this division among us and we live this room is full of these brains that have this incredible confirmation bias I crave information consists of what I already believe and I will not consciously process information that's inconsistent and then I'm able to program my life to receive only information consistent with it I don't know what to do about that so I just wanted to depress you with a couple of small things the way we get information the way we communicate with each other has changed in ways all of you understand as well or better than I do and that changes the way not just that we live but the way we are led and the way we evaluate our leaders and I'm not expert enough to tell you what to do about that seems really unfair to make you end on this rather sticky one about the dates no this is a great but with that the question is its October 28th and the team tells me we got hundreds of thousands of emails we cannot I press them so hard on this they said we cannot complete the review before the election it'll take weeks and weeks and weeks for two reasons we don't have the capability to deduplicate electronically on our classified networks all this material has to be on our classified networks because we know it contains classified information and so we'll have to read each email and we can't bring in recruits like we would to look for a knife or a gun at a crime scene because they have to know context there's only six or eight or ten people who can actually do this and know what they're looking for so we have to have a small group of people read hundreds of thousands of emails we cannot possibly finish it and I pressed impressed impressed and so given that why would I wait now to come back to the question knowing what you know now I forgot this if I knew now that the Wizards at the FBI's operational technology division would write custom software that could be loaded onto the classified network and deed electronically and cut it down to six thousand unique emails that had to be read that they could then read night after night after night after night and finish on the Sunday before the election you're damn right I might have waited I might have the reason I say might is two things if you wait and then find out it's significant you're even closer to the election and also Loretta Lynch raises to me there's the prospect of a leak we're seeking a criminal search warrant in New York so the circle of people who know about this has just gotten a whole lot larger what if it leaks the week before the election then you've got the worst of both you've spoken through a leak and you concealed it and we're exposed by a leak and so look a reasonable person might have said let's wait four days and see what happens give them what they were telling me I couldn't think of a logical reason to wait and and then once they finished again the Press reports this all the time they found nothing no no no not true we found thousands of new emails we found new we found emails with classified information in them we found things that made us need to investigate further but not as to Hillary Clinton it did not change the investigators view of Hillary Clinton even though we found new material and so look if I'd known we could have gotten it done I might have taken the chance of waiting although even that would be dangerous the only dispute actually that only the diversity of opinion in the bureau team of twelve that argued about this was having finished should we tell Congress that it hasn't changed our view and there were one or two dissenters who I think we're just so pained by the whole experience they said we shouldn't be talking anymore and my view was look I told Congress we reopen this thing if you are all really done and you're telling me it's not fatigue talking but you are done and our view has not changed how do I conceal that from the American people and so I sent the second letter on a Sunday and then I went and got a margarita as big as my head [Laughter] you've called your book a higher loyalty you've said that you have no interests no desire to go into politics I'm assuming that as an FBI director you didn't vote would I be wrong correct I did not so now you're a private citizen who do you want to vote for in 2020 you're not a Republican anymore do you vote Democrat who is your ideal candidate I don't I know it's not I intend to find and God willing there will be this person some man or woman who most importantly reflects those values and I don't care that much about their policy views the next president has to restore has to move the line back up when it comes to truth and the rule of law and equal protection of the law the things are at the heart of the United States I hope the Democrats are thoughtful enough to find somebody who reflects those values and can attract a big portion of the giant if that happens this will not be a close call and that's the person I want to vote for I don't know who that person is yet so I'm not prepared to answer your follow-up question but I I crave America craves that person who can represent us and say this is who we are as a country and so that's who I'll vote for Jim Comey what an absolute pleasure to talk to you this evening thank you you [Applause]

Channel: Intelligence Squared

Views: 31,304

Rating: 3.905983 out of 5

Keywords: james comey, comey, FBI, donald trump, emily maitlis, USA, US politics, Hillary Clinton, Robert Mueller, A Highler Loyalty, Republicans, Democrats, mafia, Martha Stewart, email server, private emails, American politics

Id: FSs8L34pZ5c

Length: 83min 38sec (5018 seconds)

Published: Tue Aug 28 2018