Is It Too Late: Black Leaders Discussion (1972)

the following program is from n-e-t can black people survive culturally and physically in america can we ever be a part of the existing white institutions or should we be developing our own can we as a people develop solutions to our dilemma fast enough to counteract the present rate of growth of the oppressive factors built into this society by institutional white racism as black people we must deal with the issue is it too late [Music] tonight on black journal reverend ralph abernathy imamu amidi baraka dr james chief reverend albert clay congressman charles diggs jr mr dick gregory miss dorothy hike mr roy innis mr vernon jordan dr john marcel what is the present condition of black america and what will black america's future be or will there be a future black america in essence is it too late the special black journal program is designed to discuss that complicated question for the next 90 minutes we will present a live unedited two-way communication system between you and our congress of black spokesman we will be using television as an instrument of positive social reform allowing black america for the first time to question members of her leadership and make herself heard collectively this program is being aired live only in the eastern and central time zones by calling regional phone-in centers in eight cities you can address questions to our assembled panel answering these phones are members of the friends of black journal you can call the regional number nearest you and in the east the regional area code and numbers are for the boston area 617-491-5600 for the new york area 212-765-5960 for the washington dc area 202-628-1222 in the midwest the area codes and numbers are for the chicago area 312-591-6400 for the cincinnati area 513-621-7200 for the detroit area 313-871-8700 in the south the area codes and numbers are for the new orleans area 504-486-5511 for the st louis area 314-725-2460 we do appreciate your patience please understand that we cannot use all of the questions we receive but every effort will be made to use as many as possible we are also thankful to the members of the panel for accepting this invitation understanding that their allotted time for discussion will be less than they are normally accorded in television appearances we have asked that their responses be as brief as possible this is our first attempt in the black journal series at using television for a live two-way communication but we do not intend it to be the last indeed there are many other black spokesmen but our physical and technical capabilities have limited us we do want the public to understand that our black leadership does include persons not on this panel sister fannie lou hamer president of the mississippi freedom democratic party was scheduled to appear with us and has suddenly and unfortunately been hospitalized she sends her regrets and her love in selecting tonight's panel we're tempted to bring together a diversity of positions and philosophies held together by the common thread of concern for all black people the st louis argus a black community paper describes this event as follows i quote all over america black men and women of purpose will be sitting down with their children to view this historic program to ponder on its message to listen to learn to go forward each panelist will now make a brief opening statement after which we will place your questions before them reverend ralph d abernathy president southern christian leadership council the southern christian leadership conference known to many throughout our nation as sclc is that organization that was founded by martin luther king jr and used as an instrument to redeem the soul of america sclc is now a national organization working across the south and in the major cities of the north for the rights and the needs of black and poor people basically we organize masses of people and non-violent community action movements and programs we're working for the total liberation of black people through economic development and control of our black communities we believe in amassing the collective power of blacks other minorities all people and progressive forces we seek a radical change in our national priorities a redistribution of wealth and power and the creation of a nation of peace and human decency we also seek to develop and to strengthen our international ties to movements of other people across the world sclc is that organization that will see to it that america feeds its hungry house its ill house provide adequate medical care for all of its citizens and live up to its pronouncements and its dream imam amidi baraka executive committee congress of african people the congress of african people is a pan-african nationalist organization but as we believe in the unification of black people africans wherever we are in the world we also believe that we will not survive and develop unless we are able through unity to achieve self-determination self-respect self-reliance and self-defense we also work to unify diverse groups of black people african people we believe that there should be unity without uniformity that all black groups must be able to work together around common purposes before i continue i would like to uh state that the honorable elijah muhammad is with us by phone from his home and along with him is minister louis farrakhan the honorable elijah muhammad will at the end of the visible panel make a position statement by phone from his home our next statement will be made by dr james cheek president of howard university one of the major issues facing our nation in this decade is the issue of quality education many americans black and white assume that quality education can occur only through integration where integration has come to mean the destruction or closing of black colleges and institutions of learning and black students enrolling in predominantly white institutions at the level of higher education that is beyond high school this attitude enacted into public policy has resulted in the continuous deterioration of one of the nation's most important most strategic and most essential groups of institutions the black colleges and universities after more than a century of service in educating and training most of the nation's black college trained population these institutions have experienced during the past 10 years erosions in their resources which have seriously affected the quality of their services and which today threaten their vitality and from a number of standpoints threatened their continued existence unless a major national effort is launched to change the public attitude toward the black colleges and universities and to provide for them substantial sums of financial support many of them will not exist by 1980 and those that do survive will have become either predominantly white in student body and faculty are so poor in quality as to render them meaningless as collegiate level institutions in such an event america's black population will be deprived of a major resource that is essential in our efforts to achieve for ourselves and the nation as a whole through social justice the destruction and impoverishment of black colleges and universities will contribute to the destruction of any possibility of this nation achieving true democracy true freedom true equality and true justice it will be a national tragedy if america through indifference disinterest and outright bigotry allows the black institutions of this country to become academic wastelands it is very clear that the development of strong and distinguished black institutions not simply the inclusion of blacks in white institutions is indispensable for the attainment of racial equality in this society reverend albert b clegg jr chairman black christian nationalist movement i represent the black christian nationalist movement and i state the black christian nationalist movement's position we feel that it could very well be too late for the black man in america probably the next five or ten years will indicate whether or not the black man can survive our struggle for survival is a very real struggle and the white man has prepared genocide for black people unemployment the black man is no longer necessary unemployment is going to be a way of life for black people we are going to face increasing dangers and problems as the days pass and we're totally unequipped as black people to deal with them we're part of a slave culture we have no preparation we have no black institutions capable of dealing with white racist institutions designed to serve only white people we must deal with the problem that confronts black people by building black institutions by understanding that only a separate disposition is a viable position for black people any organization or any leader in america who today advocates integration is a foe and an enemy of black people and their survival in the coming years representative charles c diggs jr democrat michigan and chairman of the congressional black caucus the united states is the second largest black nation in the world the west african nation of nigeria ranks first having a population of over 60 million blacks which more than doubles our own the congressional black caucus composed of the 13 black members of the u.s house representatives believes that we are on the threshold of a new era of political power for blacks not only in america but in africa and in the caribbean area there is a kind of of heightened solidarity among black people uh now who are becoming more conscious of the intricacies of politics uh as an instrument for change we are witnessing the emergence of of a kind of of of nationalism uh of a kind of black awareness that has spilled over into the political arena on an international scale and the congressional black caucus is committed to that kind of objective mr dick gregory social commentator is it too late it could be if america insists on dealing with her problems with might instead of solving problems with right it could be too late if american system fighting the sick degen insane war in vietnam and not deal with the sick insane problems that confronts americans it could be too late if america insisted this day and age that we are to run around the world to guarantee foreigners a better way of life than we guarantee our own indian brothers who we have locked up on the reservation who she stole this country from is it too late it could be too late if america insists on solving her problems with political muscle instead of states and ship ability ms dorothy height president national council of negro women black women face the double handicap of racism and sexism and mary mcleod bethune recognized this as far back as 1935 when she founded the national council of negro women because she realized that the black woman whether she was trained or untrained stood outside of the mainstream of american opportunity influence and power the national council of negro women has encouraged black women to assume leadership roles and to serve as catalysts for social change today as a coalition of 25 national organizations we've realized that it is too late to have divisions women from all walks of life different ages political persuasion social economic backgrounds are mobilized to help increase the strength of the black family and the whole black community the work of the national council of negro women is based on a philosophy that i think could be expressed in three words commitment unity and self-reliance and the energy of its woman power is harnessed to fight such chronic inequities as racism itself inadequate education and substandard housing hunger and malnutrition insufficient child care drug addiction the lack of economic opportunities especially for women and their families in the rural south and the demeaning conditions com facing so many of us as household workers it is late it's too late to think about a matriarchy it is a time to think about the unity of the whole family and women of the national council of negro women feel that in this day black women can make a difference for justice and liberation mr roy innis national director congress of racial equality the congress of racial equality is a nationalist pan-africanist organization of the graveyard variety we feel the survival of black america is threatened by racial schizophrenia that plagues a great portion of black leadership malcolm called this problem the problem of the house [ __ ] against the field [ __ ] is destructive ramification exists yet today black masses are governed and led by an elite few who have split loyalties between their black and white families these racial schizoids are leading us down the path of racial genocide through the propagation of forced integration and the calculated assimilation black people could very well disappear as a people and certainly lose our prospect for black political economic and social power and unity i say this feeling a profound sorrow and a heartfelt concern for destruction looms critically before us unless we meet head-on the problem of the white imposed leadership of the mulatto aristocracy and their bantu lackeys core will not shirk its responsibilities to reveal this truth and expose this conspiracy against black people mr vernon e jordan jr executive director national urban league the national urban league believes in a pluralistic open society one in which black people have the same range of choices and options as any other citizen the urban league's action programs are carried out by 100 affiliates across the country and they serve the minority community that is in need of our programs and our community organization projects we believe that a necessary precondition for an open society is the presence of a strong of strong black institutions and the achievement of economic parity we say it is not too late for black people to get themselves together and to join with others blacks browns and whites to bring about the necessary restructuring of our society we believe it is not too late to realize the political and economic empowerment of black people and thus to achieve parity with those whose skin is white whose opportunities have not been withheld and whose progress has been steady dr john a marcel assistant executive director national association for the advancement of colored people when the naacp was established some 63 years ago a number of leading authorities in this field declined to join with it because they said it was impossible that black people could survive 50 years in this country under the conditions then prevailing 63 years of history has passed and like my organization i am dedicated to the proposition that it is still possible to achieve genuine racial justice and meaningful equality among black and white americans through the social and governmental structures we now have modified as needed through the democratic process i believe that the goal of an integrated society nourished and formed by healthy cultural diversity is still attainable i also believe that there is no guarantee that we will be successful but i am convinced that if we have any chance at all it is along the road which seeks a common american destiny and insists upon a partnership of equals along the way the statement for the nation of islam will now be made by the honorable elijah muhammad by phone from his home go ahead please opening statement of the nation of islam by the honorable elijah muhammad go ahead please that the black man suggests for the together of white americans it is too late for that it is too late to adopt the politics of the white men of america it is too late for us to try to integrate with the white man it is too late for us to continue the religion called christianity that the white men organized for himself and for those who would want to be in such religion it is too late to talk of integration unless we want to be lost in such integration we have not never didn't such thing as a white person unless the white man integrated and our family made us white by nature we are different to people we cannot claim ourselves right if we are not born of the white that there is so many black people want to be white rather than black therefore they will speak in that direction of being white but i say it is too late unless you want to taste helpful it is too late the end of the white man's time have arrived and therefore what rights do the black man want to go along with a person that is doomed divinely doomed that person should go ahead and take us on and we take our on salvation has come for the so-called american negro the black man of america why should not he be wise enough to accept it your god have come in not said in no spooky manner he's in person and offering to the black men of america money good home friendship in all walk of life i believe that you know these things is now true i don't said that i hate the white man's respect for us we surely got it we went to washington and the white government of america honored me better than all the black people in america's ever have respected me for 40 years they left me up pennsylvania avenue like i was a cane or queen upon me saying queen like if i was a prince for the new government somewhere else i thank the white people they did a wonderful honor to me twice that i visit washington they have never disgraced me in the way of trying to mock me as a messenger no they honored me and i thanked him for the honor they give to me that my black people never dared to do out of washington or in washington so this is true that they know more about me than my own people they know that god have raised me up to teach the truth they don't argue with me about it they don't try to mock me disgrace me they are very nice to me that is my black people that is the one who does the mocking and disgracing they try to do but i want to say this and this is it is true you cannot disgrace a true servant of god you disgrace yourself i don't say this trying to say anything against too late i'm coming to that and right it is too late for us to go to work to try to be equal in politics with the white man you cannot be equal with him in politics that he has made himself you cannot go and get beside him if he give it to you in office in washington to be the equal with the white men volume don't know why he knows he makes something himself i said we need to make politics of our own if we want politics make them of your own we cannot use this politics because that they are made up of his know-how herself and this thing that we are after today is something for self and not something for the white man that has 6 000 years to have made his world and he has made it that is no doubt he didn't lose one minute and making him a world but we are this poor slaves who has been trotted down by the white race and trying to do something for self we have not did nothing for self i want the big white people to do something for us i don't give two cents for a black man laying around washington chicago san francisco anywhere in the country begging white folks to do something for him get out and do something for yourself he said you were free take advantage of this freedom he said that you can go for self go for self like man what's hindering you if he boldly tell you in the world to go for yourself we are trying to go for ourselves we muslims we are trying to dignify america wherever we see our partners to english wherever we live we're trying to dignify the country we're not trying to make the country look ugly we're trying to make the country to look beautiful because we are living in it and we want to live wherever we live to be beautiful we are trying to do something for ourselves and we are trying to teach our people to do something for self we're not trying to be with the politician black people we are not trying to outreach you brother we just want to preach the truth that's all we want to do akin we are trying to farm you may not like farming but some farming comes everything that we get therefore we trying to farm i am begging you all over the country coming in to help do these things which i know that you will love me for teaching you to do these things and pretty soon we cannot depend on the wheat house of america we cannot depend on the the livestock of america we got to depend on something for self let us go to the good old earth if the white man will sell it or read it or release it to us and there get out of that way what he has gotten out of it we no more must do these things about laying around begging the white man for this and that and i said to the preachers preach the gospel of doing for self and don't preach the gospel of begging this is a shame for us after 400 years and 100 years up from slavery to go and beg white people to give us anything go get it ourselves it's out here i helped here on the south side of chicago with the help of my father have did things that you never dreamed of doing we have a program of what we're going to do for the south side in chicago to show to you in our paper now within a week or so and you will be happy we want you unemployment is bound to overtake you i said to you hungry is bound to overtake you i said to you revolution is bound to take to overtake you all kinds of bad weather that you have never dreamed of don't overtake you we are in the throes of divine destruction of america don't think that america is now setting free of these things he's in them [Applause] salvation of the black man thank you that was the uh statement from the animal elijah muhammad again we invite your questions uh to this distinguished panel make note of the phone in center nearest you in the east the regional numbers are in boston in the boston area 617-491-5600 the new york area 212-765-5960 washington dc area 202 202-628-1222 chicago area in the midwest 312-591-6400 cincinnati area 513-621-7200 the detroit area 313-871-8700 and in the south the numbers and the area codes are in the new orleans area 504-486-5511 st louis area 31472 we have quite a few questions and we'd like to progress as rapidly as possible first question is from new york city for reverend abernathy would you categorize a struggle between yourself and reverend jackson as a power struggle between black men well there is no struggle between myself and the reverend jackson as you will recall reverend jackson served as a staff member of southern christian leadership conference and he did an excellent job i think in that capacity as the director of our department operation bread basket and when he could no longer carry out the orders of our organization and be governed by the organization he resigned he quit and i understand that he has established now his own organization there is no power structure between ralph abernathy and jesse jackson i'm fighting so that america will feed its hungry house its ill house care for the sick and the needy in the war in vietnam solve our domestic problems here at home stop spending billions for the moon and only pennies for the poor this is our program in sclc thank you the next question sure i i don't care about you know the whole concept of a power struggle between two black folks neither one having any power is absolutely ridiculous and points out the basic problem that confronts all organizations that have been speaking here other than core even the the muslim harang did not deal with the basic problem of the black man's powerlessness black people don't have any power abernathy and jesse jackson can wrestle from here to to los angles they're still not dealing with power black people are powerless they've been put outside of the whole white power structure and all the organization the naacp urban league sclc national council negro woman all of them are talking as though black people have power black people don't have any power unless we can begin to build black institutions and realize that we're dealing with a power struggle for survival all these organizations are leading us straight to hell and genocide and uh dr abdullah ought to understand it couldn't be a power struggle because neither of them have any power naacp has no power urban league has no power no black organization no black people in america have power they fighting for survival from a powerless position flat on their back begging white folks and that's that was almost the tenor of the muslim position they were begging white folks please please sell us some land give us some land let us exist white folks are good that's a self-hate kind of thing that black folks find themselves degenerating into because black people have no power and they have to beg white folks to give them whatever they want i say black people and black christian nationalism says we have to approach the whole problem in terms of power black people have to begin to build institutions every institution that exists belongs to white people was built by white people and serves the interests of white people and for black organizational leaders to be sitting here talking as though they have power as though they represent something like we want to represent everybody we want to bring everybody together we want to build a beautiful america we don't want to build no kind of beautiful america we want power for black people and we're going to have to fight for it it demands confrontation and the willingness to do anything necessary to get power and we got to take it away from white people white people are not going to give black people anything politically economically or any other way black man is no longer necessary in america and the white man is hell-bent on genocide so we have to understand we've got to build institutional power to deal with the white man who has decided to destroy us well thank you reverend for underscoring my point yes that this is merely a gimmick on the part of a white racist society to divide black people right there is no power structure but struggle between ralph abernath and jesse jackson thank you i'd like to proceed if i can and if you could keep your questions as brief as possible but i know you need time to develop them the next question is for dick gregory what is being done about sickle cell anemia and what can black people do to help this comes from uh charlotte north carolina i think one thing what we got to do is develop ways and means of doing some basic research to find out one the origin of sickle cell anemia was a sickle-like shaped cell in the blood that guarded black folks against malaria and when we were brought to this country and got on the high greece high starch diet that we on it created problems which was once a protection and so the millions of dollars we fixing to spend to counteract sickle cell if we would spend a little time doing some research and change the diet because most black folks knew that soul food was taking 30 to 40 years off of their life and almost charging a third of their salary for doctors and what have you a lot of sicknesses we die from we wouldn't and i think the important structure of the black man's health be it sickle cell anything else lies basically with the diet because you are what you eat thank you we now have an on the air call from cincinnati ohio would you go ahead please caller from cincinnati ohio you're on the air would you go ahead please technical difficulties we have a call a message here question for any member of the panel does the panel think the democratic party can serve as a tool for the liberation of black people or should it be necessary to create a new political party i'll have no political party can serve as a tool if it's dominated by white people black people have to build their own institutions their own institutional power base from which to work and the only possible power base that black people have is the black church which has to be restructured its orientation has to be taken out of the clouds and began to build on earth a kind of a nation of black people here on earth who are dealing with reality in a programmatic kind of way uh would mr barack or congressman diggs like to speak to that century involved in the political community national black political convention which takes place in gary indiana march 10 through march 12th will be addressing itself to the empowerment of black people any uh reference to partisanship uh and i i think that it is consistent with the implications of that question because uh without uh confrontation with both political parties and outside of the political party uh political structure uh obviously we're not going to be able to translate what uh what uh represents our potential power into anything meaningful mr barack you want to respond to that yes um a basic position is that first thing we have to realize that we are a people a particular people that we are not uh americans except by default of being here in the same space but what we have to realize and what we are trying to uh articulate is that i think almost all of our brothers here have a correct position to a certain extent uh from the honorable elijah mohammed to uh brother clay to congressman diggs that our problem is that we seem to think that the diversity of our beliefs is uh somehow has to keep us apart that i think when we learn to that the it is institutions alternative institutions that will be our salvation but we have to be able to to orchestrate our community that is to pull together a kind of unified national black community so that the the christian nationalists or the christians or the muslims or the people who are talking about integration or the people who are talking about garveyism that somehow we can function as a nation of people as a people that we can sit just like we're sitting here and uh say to each other try to agree on certain things that we have to do as a people so that say we can agree that the christian nationalists and the muslims and the you know people who are politically motivated that say on one issue we can get together and deal with that particular issue from the point of our collective strength because uh we don't have any power because we have not focused and created an instrument through which to translate our power potential into actuality any such instrument would be wholly dishonest unless we are able to come together and admit our diversities and i identify them for us to stop lying about what we are we have a serious problem in this country among black leaders women very few these days will honestly call themselves integrationists while pursuing that path uh with all of their energies and and resources we need to be able to admit our diversities identify them then there might be a chance to come together in some kind of instrument i would now have uh yes uh dr i can make a brief uh quick comment i hope it would have the effect in part of bringing our discussion back into a reality of the here and now and i have no quarrel with people who want to engage in philosophical speculations about the ultimate culture and the ultimate this and the ultimate that but i call attention to the fact that we are a minority of 10 or 11 percent living right here and now in the united states in the midst of institutions in which it is certainly true we have very little power it seems to me that while some are pursuing the long-range goals in one direction or another that they some of which have been enunciated here somebody has got to be in effect mining the store and seeing that the problems of black people who are hungry in mississippi and alabama are being met that they're being fed as our emergency relief program is doing as dorothy heights council's program is doing somebody has got to see about finding jobs about seeing people are trained for jobs because no matter what system we have people are going to work by the sweat of their brow and that's the way they're going to earn their bread they're going to have to know how to work and how to work skillfully and well and these are problems to which we have to address ourselves now imamu baraka has has has notably in newark operated on this level i'm quite sure that his views as to the ultimate future of black people are very different from mine and god will only tell some years hence who is right but he works to get people registered to vote in the city of newark so that they can use some of the power if people are powerless in newark in part at least it's because they don't use what power channels they have and i think we need to address ourselves the ways in which we can build unity on specific problems specific needs where there is analysis and action i mean i say this uh because so we won't get bogged down in in our differences and in having an argumentation over our organizational philosophies we have literally thousands of people who are phoning and i would certainly appreciate if you could respond directly to the questions and please respond as succinctly as possible we have just we're just overwhelmed with phone calls thank you very much we now have a live call uh from a viewer from cincinnati uh with the viewer from cincinnati go ahead please yes what appears to be the best and most perhaps the most logical position to take concerning the 1972 presidential election the panel like to respond to that she wanted to know what the most sensible position would be uh in the 1972 election to vote for that candidate who can openly come out and recognize the diversity among black people and be willing to put together a platform that can satisfy the diverse interests of the various black groups thank you the next uh question is for dr cheek what goals should black students seek at this time in order to succeed in today's society that's from brooklyn new york i think one of the most important things is for black students to assure themselves that they are receiving a kind of education that will make them competent to function in this society as well as competent to change it the next call is from cincinnati ohio for miss height do you think if there were ever do you think there will ever be racial pluralism in american society and if so how soon well i think there is uh actually the myth of the melting pot has led us down very sad paths but that there will be pluralism when we recognize the contribution of every group and i think that is why it seems to be when black people are talking about our contribution that we are trying to make america more of a pluralistic society by recognizing the contributions of all of its people rather than expecting any of us to give way for something called a melting pot the next question is directed to reverend clay [Music] if there is no difference between your organization and that of the honorable elijah muhammad why don't you join forces well that's you know kind of ridiculous question there are differences between black christian nationalism and muslims who have a muslim position i we're willing to join forces with anybody who rejects integration and is willing to take a programmatic approach to the solvent of the black man's problems we have to understand that the black man is in is is in a slave culture that's why so much of the talk that's coming out here is coming out of a slave culture where black people feel inferior where the white man's declaration of black inferiority has been accepted by black people that's why black leaders talk out of a slave culture whenever they open their mouths and their organizations even when they've learned that black people have changed and they start to try to sound like they're opposed to integration begin to talk in in goblin book because they really are working for the integration and that's what they believe in so it's i would work with uh with elijah muhammad he's he's closer to trying to do something than most of these other organizations that are represented here with the exception of roy in it i've just been uh informed that uh mr muhammad would like to respond to your comment uh mr muhammad you may go ahead on the please the next the next question is for the panel from reverend leo johnson in las vegas nevada what do you envision as the major issue facing the black community having identified the issue of all of the announced and unannounced presidential candidates who do you assume would work to alleviate the problem obviously we got to face one thing that this all the questions are grown out of the same distortion of the truth no president has any power america is not run by presidents but by people whose names are never even in the newspaper they're run by a white institutional establishment and the institutions control our people act we've elected this president to keep us out of war and this one to keep us out of war and we stay in war because the president has nothing to do with any kind of decision so for black people to be sitting around trying to pick a president who's going to solve the black man's problems is totally ridiculous the black man's got to solve his own problems and the president is not going to do it for him mr jordan would you like to respond to that i think that the the basic answer to that is that black people have to say to the democratic party that it cannot take its vote and its power for granted i think on the other hand that it has to say to the republican party that it cannot in 1972 ignore the black vote i also think that if in fact there is a taken for granted on the part of the democrats and there is an ignorance on the part of the republicans that there are clear options for black people in 1972 elections uh and it seems to me that the gary meeting uh is is an opportunity for black people to get themselves together and to deal with the question of what those options are now this question is directed toward the panel and i hope you can be brief whoever answers it from richard green in cincinnato ohio what is the opinion of the panel on bussing to achieve school integration it's ridiculous i think that you can only receive quality education in light of our geographical locations and where black people and white people live through blessing i think they're blessing is very necessary to achieve integrated quality education i would like to associate myself with that point of view i do not think as does reverend click that it is ridiculous i think that the issue is one of quality education i think the issue is one of assuring black people and opportunity to equal educational facilities and consistent with the court decisions in richmond and the charlotte mecklenburg county case i certainly i put myself on the side of the issue but i'm for it to achieve let me agree with the reverend klee and state again that it is ridiculous it is insulting to black people to assume for one moment that for all these years white people have been getting a good education you know the kennedys have been going to their racially exclusive and isolated schools and becoming presidents and for us to assume for one moment that black kids must be bossed into white schools to get a good education is nothing but racism by black people against themselves sophie let me just add quickly mr brown bussing in the concept in which i joined vernon jordan and ralph abernathy is not intended to be an exclusive process of bussing black children into white schools it is one of a number of devices which can be used and are being used and i hope will continue to be used to bring about quality integrated education and obviously if one does not accept that as a goal then busing is anathema if one does accept that as a goal and blessing is certainly a legitimate means of achieving it and ought to be used and not disused that's that's not even the question the question is education itself quality education does not necessarily mean going into a white school or whether the students are predominantly white no school in america other than the muslim school could be accused of teaching black children anything that would be helpful to black children it doesn't make any difference whether you bust them out to a exclusive white suburb or leave them in the ghetto they're still going to be learning the same nonsense that has destroyed the black man's mind the black man does not understand the whole question of power because he has been destroyed intellectually by white education and white education is not even touched by blessings then maybe we ought to bust the black uh that we ought to bust the white students to the black muslim schools uh dr cheeky that might be an improvement certainly for the white students it would be an improvement except it would so tear up the muslim school i think a fundamental consideration is whether or not an inordinate amount of attention and energy have been devoted to the issue of busing and the fundamental issue of what kind and character and quality of education is being provided students has gone into the background i myself do not see the issue we face in those terms that are described by bussing and its related phenomena i think it's very important for the black population in america to disabuse its mind of the notion that the only way in which quality education and by that i mean more than what is represented in how much one spins but also what is the kind and quality and character of education is being provided are far more important considerations than the question of what school won the tens tony i think you know that in a way we're taking a lot of time on this question but there's no question more fundamental to describe the crisis in black america than this right now today in richmond virginia white people in a conspiracy conspiracy with a small number of black people are trying to disperse father disperse black people just at the time when we are talking about group togetherness group identity black power social political economic and it is important that we stay in this question a little bit longer and all these panelists because this is the first time in a hell of a long time that the black population outside here have been able to hear from his so-called leaders on this issue of schools let everyone declare himself is he an integrationist or is he a national brotherhood is it for school integration or for community control we also have responsibility to all of these people who are calling us we could certainly have a 90-minute program on bussing that's as hot as you can get but i certainly would appreciate if you keep your responses brief and i'd like to move on as a matter of fact uh the honourable elijah muhammad would like to respond to reverend clay and uh if he is if he can now listen to me i would like for him also if he can to make his statement as brief as possible uh you may go ahead you're on the air please mr muhammad yes it is not too late for the black man of america to accept his own place in the sun as other nation has accepted their places this is the best time for the black man that he has had he been in america to accept his own the black man in america has been read by white people therefore he don't know how to accept his own but i'm here to tell him how to accept his own god have made me for just that push purpose and it's not too late for him just left his own it is not too late for the black man in america to separate himself from white america this must be done the black man i want to say to him he's not too late to set up a government for himself it is not too late for the black man to take over that which god has offered him to take over and that is the whole entire thing the whole place belongs to the black man everything belongs to the black man but white man you don't own white people but everything else belongs to and it is time that he take it over it is time that we realize the fact that we have been here 400 years serving almost 72 slavery for all these years and now for us to take and try and be shy of speaking up and taking over that which actually belong to us by right of justice it's making a fool out of us ourselves we can't take and make a fool out of ourselves for taking what is our wrong this is our own earth we made it our god made it our god now today want to give it back to us and why should not we take it over it is all everything is ours but the white man he don't belong to us and therefore we should take that which belongs to us to be made markov by white people just because that is your time that you accept your own and take over the whole entire earth and the humans they bumped earth is only because that they don't like to be removed but it is time and america's displaced therefore we black people must remember and must must act upon the principles of this one thing that we are a black people of the earth the original people of the earth their faith and we're not going to have in the last will forever thank you very much sir i'd like to say that we exist black christian nationals would certainly accept that position that that that he's uh enunciated in this statement and with one exception that god's not going to do do it for us no matter what name we call god by that we're gonna have to do it for ourselves the other the historical aspect of his statement is absolutely correct thank you now the next question is the similar question phoned in from three cities and three people curtis richardson in columbus ohio joseph jackson in boston massachusetts and ruth scott in manhattan new jersey question is to the panel can the panel function as a group in resolving problems for black people no the panel can't function as a group because the panel doesn't have any position most of the panel is integrationist which is out loaded and obsolete and will tend to destroy black people the members of the panel who believe in the black man building his own life building his own nation are separatists and cannot possibly function with a panel of integrationist integrations are going to have to learn through the process of the white man's efforts of genocide that integration will not work white people do not want to integrate with black people now you can haul about if they will do this and if they will do that white people are not going to integrate they're not going to deal in terms of morality or moral values they're going to deal as they've been doing in terms of the self-interest of white people and as soon as black people learn that then black people can begin to deal in terms of the self-interest of black people i think the the question is to the point of uh a functional uh operational unity it's impossible to function together if you don't have the same position how can a separatist and an integrationist who are both black function in terms of a white man who's out to destroy both of us mrs barack you have any views i think what i tried to say before is that what is lacking just like what is lacking in our community like is what is lacking on this panel is the sense of trying to integrate the black community uh in order to have a nation to have a national consciousness you have to have national integration it is you have to be able to move to a point of sophistication and maturity where you are able to take diverse groups within a national group the one similarity that nationalists and integrationists have is that we both black and neither one of us by our ideologies and philosophies can erase that fact so what we're saying is if we can bring about the integration of our own community and begin to create an institution of our own communities political development and politics not meaning just voting but politics meaning community organizing making alliances and coalitions developing the power to disrupt and also being able to uh elect people to office but by able to integrate to bring together our community as one totality based on the fact that we are black people and unless we are able to do that bring our people together then we'll never be able to make any movement because we'll always be working at cross purposes and against each other now the fact that someone can say they're integrationists and i know as well as you do that that is an absurd position to in in a theoretical way you see or a real way but what i'm trying to say is this i am not going to press the theory to the detriment of the reality i would rather try to get black people together you know to solve all kinds of diversity than to be so hung up on the theory of my own ideology that i would drive people away from me that's beautiful but what we've got to understand is one thing that we cannot go along with integration we have got to black people have got to drive integrationist integration organizations the black churches integration saying we have got to drive them out of the black community we can put together a program that's dependent on dealing with black integration they are the enemy black integrations are just as much the enemy of black people as white people are because they are the lackies the white people doing the the dirty work that white people would ordinarily have to do for themselves if we can because we're running very short of time may we yes may we may we may we house our philosophy in our responses to the question right and i think that way we can stay out of other people's ideologies and because we only have i think 20 minutes mr jordan you're trying to make a point and then mr gregory it's already proven to that uh in response to that question that there are those of us on this pound with the exception i think of reverend clay who have demonstrated and demonstrate on a daily basis that despite our differences and despite our diversion approaches and views that we have found in various programs and in various situations instances where we could come together and agree and work together and it seems to me that that is that is the only way that we can bring about some kind of unity out of our diversity and i think that reverend clear got to understand that uh those of us who do take a position of an open pluralistic society that we're not going out of the black community we're not going to be run out and that we're there just like the tree planted by the rivers of water i mean we have one more response wondering what uh you know mr jordan and the other assimilation is integrationist will be willing to refrain from speaking exclusively for the black community recognize their two goals and agree for us to function and possibly have a peaceful coexistence and reinforce each other's goals the problem is the integrationist in conspiracy to silence the true aspiration and goal of most black people which is that of self-determination right the problem is not the integrations the problem is the europeans maybe may we please i promise i'd like to see the integration it serves the europeans right once we unify our community then anybody who doesn't serve that community will be isolated and can be diminished in their in their influence on our community by the totality of our strength but you'll never unite the black [Music] would you go ahead please you're on the air all right uh we're having difficulty there too we'll be back to it in a minute uh you want to make a statement yes i think you know many people have different ideologies uh sitting here but to the basic point of that question i have nine kids and the physical suffering that go on in this country uh i could leave this earth today and have no doubt that everyone on this panel could deal with all of the physical pains uh without getting involved with ideologies uh there's no one on this panel here that couldn't deal with that in a very brilliant and honest and ethical way thank you the next question is for uh miss hike from darlene williams in chicago please comment on black women and the women's lib well black women have always had to fight for liberation i think that uh this question probably pertains to some um of the new threats towards liberation that have been strongly pushed through white women um seems to me that the one of the best examples we have today is the thrust of a charlie chisholm on the national scene where black and white women are recognizing the need for the uh the talents of women to be fully expressed and i think that black women have not been able to communicate only around the issue of personal development because we feel that our problem of liberation is tied up with the whole liberation of black people so we have to work not only for the liberation of black women but for the whole black family but indeed we are joined with all women in the struggle for liberation thank you now this will be another hot questions to the entire panel whoever responds to it i would appreciate brevity from phyllis waller in new orleans louisiana how does a young black listening to this program comprehend the idea of being black faced with so many concepts first the first the young person ought to read my book black christian nationalism and that would answer all the questions and dispose of most of the arguments that the integrationists have brought up here the young fella cannot locate reverend clay's book it ain't hard to locate morrow william published in new york if the young fellow should happen to have difficulty locating reverend clay's book and a great many best sellers are not always available on the shelves they're being snapped up so fast that they run out of them i would say that his first job is to become true to himself as a person an individual he can do this and it may well be through reverend clay's book he's got to know a great deal about his own past about his own capacities about the fact that the the his blackness is not a limit upon him now it's easy to say that people have been saying it for many years the actual achievement of it is far from being that easy or as simple as it sounds because it has to be twofold he's got to know what the past was he's got to know what he himself is and he's got to struggle against adversity and make it nobody can achieve true manhood either by reading books or by engaging in philosophical dissertations or any other way except by struggle individual struggle and group struggle and that's what is ahead of this young man and all of our young men thank you i should also think that that this panel is reflective of the fact that all of us are shaped in our ideas and our attitudes bound individual experiences and it seems to me that that young man must deal with himself as john marcel indicates based on his own experiences and i think he not only ought to read reverend click but he ought to read booker t washington and du bois and malcolm martin king and everybody else garvey whomever and based on that it seems to me that he has for himself and by himself influenced by whomever might influence him anybody on this panel arrive for himself as to what he is what he wants to be and what his philosophy of life is and i think that this pound is to a large extent reflective of that [Music] i'd like to see him consider the black woman as his full partner and may i say this but even more important in my estimation than all of this is the fact that we are all here this evening grappling with problems and working in the field of of ideas we're here because we are black we're here because we are concerned certainly there is not uniformity but i have a great feeling that there is unity and we must find that unity we're in search for that unity and i think that that should reign clear in the mind of that young man that we are searching for that unity we are searching for that truth and if we keep searching certainly we shall find it all right this is yes briefly to the young man that we've all this diversity is not unique to black people sitting here no one else in his life he will find a choice of religions which he can choose one or many a choice of foods a choice of music i think the ultimate end for this young man in most young people in american world over you got to make a mall stand and that ethics is what's going to be the guiding force and in the total end victory will be won because what we're really talking about in all of us sitting here talking about to relieve suffering of black people uh the safest way we can all unify that is say rally behind the mall force and the ethical power and we'll move i'd like to say to the public uh we certainly appreciate their patience we're dealing with as many questions as we can and as rapidly as we can the next question is to congressman diggs how relevant are president nixon's policies to the black community today is he expected to get much support from black communities in his re-election bid that's from the black audio network in new york well i think one of the uh strategic questions for black people in 1972 has to do with the political implications of a presidential election year and i think rather than concentrate so much on the whole thought of who we're going to support uh there are many people who are very much concerned and are prepared to concentrate on unelecting uh nixon as a goal uh with uh whatever combination of forces that can be exercised to accomplish that based on the record of his uh benign neglect on a domestic level and and certainly a crowned by his uh his attitude toward the emerging nations uh in in black africa we now have a live call i'd like to get on uh we have a call from boston if you're on and can hear me would you go ahead please response to congressman dick's question which black congressional congress caucus plan to endorse mrs chisholm as the presidential candidate uh black convention plan to endorse as a presidential candidate well the congressional black caucus as a matter of policy uh does not endorse candidates obviously uh the uh the uh candidacy of of shirley chisholm is is a matter of keen interest to all of us uh there's no question that shirley chisholm candidacy has raised the the level of political aspirations of black people in this country uh and there's no question that her impact in these uh presidential primaries and that she plans on entering from florida all across the country hopefully in my state of michigan is going to be a a very strategic instrument for bothering black political aspirations for 1972. thank you this is a question from miss j williams in boston do you believe that it's possible that genocide will take place in america within the next 10 years and will it be sanctioned by the government yes very possible and it will be sanctioned and led by the government thank you the next question is for dr cheek from patricia hammond in milwaukee wisconsin what is your opinion concerning the black intellectual quote brain drain from our black colleges and how will this affect the black race in the next decade i think the so-called brain drain has been characteristic of what took place during a good part of the 1960s but i think that there is some evidence to indicate that the brain drain is in the process of being reversed there is certainly no question that the black institutions will depend upon black scholars if they are to pursue the goal of excellence that we alluded to in our opening statement all right the next question is for anyone on the panel from aretha johnson in chicago when will the black when will the white man be destroyed in america when black people unite and start fighting uh for their own freedom and the destruction of the white man really is a not not relevant question it's the when will the black man build a nation and be able to control his own destiny the next question is from cheryl rabford in brooklyn new york uh how can we get white merchants out of the ghetto how can we start an economic boycott just stop buying it white stores in the ghetto that's very simple if black people would stop buying they'd have to leave the whole question of again of control of the community uh it begins first with a movement to unify all the diverse forces in the community to build some kind of power political power based on that unity and then to move to economic development but as long as we are diverse and don't have a structure to deal from a national structure that includes all the diverse elements to put together national black policies and national black agendas you know to deal as a quasi-governmental quasi-national forum and structure then we will still be dealing with very small programs engulfed by a very large program but barack is talking continually about this national structure and it's important but the brothers should deal with the fact that most of these national structures and national meetings called are called by the integrationist assimilationists to serve their own ends and usually they include the rest of us the nationalists so that we can help further that in well i think this is this ought to be known is that the people sitting on this panel if they are actually real each have constituency so to say about an integrationist as if he were one person in the world if you go out in our community you will find that there are many many many integrationists out there and many many moderates and many many nationalists and many many muslims and many many christians what i'm saying is we each have constituencies but how to unite those constituencies so we have a nation a national presence a national political and economic strategy and i don't think that nationalists are so weak-minded that they can be co-opted by uh so-called gentlemen can we move to some more questions so we can get out of the ideological argument uh another question for anyone on the panel can blacks live under capitalistic society shirley waits in philadelphia we've been living under it but it's a process by which we die slowly we have not been living very well and the black man is going to have to cease being purely concerned with consumption and began to go back and build his own type of economic system pulling himself up by his bootstraps given service working doing the kind of communal thing that's now being developed in africa called ujima where communal work programs where black people contribute both money and time to bill for black people right this way tony that uh black man can live under capitalism as reverend clay says he's been doing it i think it's one thing he and i agree on so far tonight but there's also this to be said that most of the white people who come after black people urging them to overthrow capitalism are anxious that they not enjoy any of the fruits of that capitalism and i would say that when we have achieved if we achieve genuine equality in this country under capitalism then we can all get together and decide whether we want to change it i just don't want to see us made petsies by people who have ideological access to grind but i think it does mean that we have to be willing to examine the systems under which we live to see what kinds of change might make them more humane and so that we would not have to have enough unemployment enough racial discrimination enough war to keep our system going change is really it seems to me what we need to examine and find the basis to move towards it's very clear to me that uh we do live in a capitalistic society it's also very clear to me that blacks are on the short end of the fruits and benefits of that capitalistic society and also it seems to me relates to the question asked by the young lady about should black business white businesses move out of the ghetto it seems to me that another question should be can black businesses exist on fifth avenue and peachtree street uh and that seems to me to be a very basic question as we look at the whole question of the campaign for a few minutes and i'd like to feel this one from bernard witt in north new jersey who is the most powerful black man in america today no black man in america is powerful there are no such thing no nothing exists that what you could call a powerful black men there there are black people who are projected by white people but there are no powerful black uh individuals because no black individual controls any organizational structure there's no mechanism for us to determine that by since most black leaders are the creation of the white structure right the question is almost impossible to answer but i would suggest uh just for starters a man that you don't often hear about andrew brimmer i would say a man who is a member of the federal reserve board of governors exercises genuine power over money in this country and anybody who exercises power over money in this country exercises power it may not be power exercise that some of us would like to see but he is a man of power and there are others he's spooked by the door though he doesn't have any power there will be no real um total power for black people in america until there is some attempt to unify black america to bring it together where it has one single consciousness and one single focus you know so that we're all acting collectively for the collective good all right speaking of that single focus that ties into the next question by from joe text from nova scotia texas to the empire panel why can't we find one black leader or organization through which we can all join forces and unite in the common struggle that's the basic basic black ridiculous approach to the whole problem there's no such thing as any one black leader who's going to lead black people until black people reject integration and begin to put together a black nation with power black people have two sets of goals and aspiration until we identify those we cannot talk about that kind of unity thank you the next question ties in somewhat uh from william reed in plainville new jersey is there a common ground then that anyone can agree upon for the advancement of all blacks yeah to get some power our powerlessness is the thing we suffer from either we escape from powerlessness and get power to control our own destiny or we end up the victims of genocide i think that there will be a consensus here if that's possible that the goal of political and economic empowerment on the part of black people is is a is a desirable goal and hopefully an achievable one i think that the difference comes as we relate to how as we relate to how we get there and the means by which it ought to be achieved thank you this question dick gregory i hope you can answer succinctly from ronald webb in washington d.c do you feel that the u.s government will use sickle cell anemia as a form of genocide no i think you use sickle cell anemia as a form of getting your attention off the real killers uh we as black folks got to ask ourselves how many sickle cell anemia funerals have we been to compared to how many black folks that we know have died from lead poisoning and rickets and sugar diabetes and heart trouble and all the other things and from that point put it into its perspective this question uh is uh from leroy davis louisville kentucky to dr marcel how can parents prepare their children when they are sent to schools where the thinking is not within a black spectrum well whenever parents have a problem of a diversity between what's taught in schools and what the parents believe the kids ought to know they have two possibilities one is to find another school if there is one if not and this has been done successfully over the years as witness this panel right here we did not all learn the same things in schools we went to and the product of our minds today shows that other influences in school were at work and in most of these cases i would bet it was our parents who were able to exercise the kinds of influences they want school can't do it all the parents thank you i can understand why that gentleman from louisville kentucky is the question because it's a more sales organization has been successful in this person black people in louisville so much so you can hardly find a black administration school until this young man is able to go to school control by his people he cannot get a good education thank you very much i have a very direct question uh and this viewer would like a simple yes or no answer this is directed to dick gregory imamu baraka and dorothy height simple yes or no are you for or against bussing i suppose i should say or are you for busing yes or no mr gregory i'm falling under certain conditions miss baraka no i'm not for it i think it's an irrelevant question actually miss height i'm for busting and anything else that assures quality education i think that's an irrelevant question though the question should be how can we create institutions to benefit our own people you know our control institutions that our people are in how can we gain control of the public institutions like schools now we only have uh uh two minutes left one minute and the messenger would like to uh make a uh closing statement and i hope we can make it brief because we're going off the air in a minute uh mr muhammad can you hear me if you can would you go ahead please go ahead please we only have one minute left hello hello uh we only have one minute left would you go ahead please all right uh this uh question having technical difficulties with the phone this last question and it has to be with someone answered very briefly to the panel what are we going to do about the forgotten black brothers in prison we're going to work on prison programs at penal reform we're going to try and change the whole system of the way we deal with crime and criminals and we're going to see that all largely black criminal populations are not watched over by largely white are all white guards wardens and other and other uh caretakers apollo is like people can't do anything about the prisons we are doing something about it that's an illusion that black people go through that they can do something about the problems i think also it's very important that we realize that at the heart of the problem is how do we keep them out of prison thank you very right and that much we're working for lauren order we have to be sure we're working for equality and justice thank you our time is out and we would certainly like to thank all of you for not necessarily an agreeable panel but certainly a very interesting panel and i think to some extent we have to reflect the diversity in the black community which is very honest thank you again [Music] [Music] you

Channel: AfroMarxist

Views: 162,712

Rating: 4.8999386 out of 5

Keywords: Socialism, Communism, Rev. Ralph Abernathy, Imamu Amiri Baraka, Elijah Muhammad, Dick Gregory, Dorothy Height

Id: t4FAlJFHkL4

Length: 88min 20sec (5300 seconds)

Published: Sun Aug 30 2020

Reddit Comments

[u/cydbeefree]

I watched this video last night. Really something to see this discussion feeling so current. It's like not much has changed.... in fact, in some ways it feels like we've taken some steps backward.