Is Israel losing the information war on Gaza? | UpFront

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[Music] joining me to discuss Israel's information Warfare effort is Su Jolly he's a professor of communication at the University of Massachusetts and founder and executive director of the media Education Foundation uh good to see you you produced a documentary uh the occupation of the American mind in 2016 which highlighted uh Israel's public relations strategy and of course I was uh a part of that film uh this has been called husb uh can you talk about what the husb strategy is and and whether or not it's been effective it's what Israel has uh been doing since at least 1982 1982 was when uh in the invasion of Lebanon um their control of information wasn't that great and there was a lot of very negative stories on American Media and since then they decided they're not going to let that happen and they're going to control American media and the stories and narratives that here on American Media in relationship to the situation in Israel Palestine they're going to control that very closely and the overall strategy is called hasbara it's it's a PR propaganda strategy to make sure that the stories of the American public here uh come from uh have have the um the the the narrative that Israel would like to have back in March uh prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu complained uh to a highlevel meeting of Israeli Parliament that the problem with the husb strategy not just social media not just other narratives but he said it's because he was quote surrounded by people who can't put two words together in English uh since October 7th we've seen some very clumsy attempts at propaganda I'm thinking about uh the supposed list of Hamas operatives uh in Al shifa Hospital uh that was just a calendar in Arabic uh amateurish amateurish like digital Renditions of a Ed Hamas Command Center under that same shifa Hospital uh how does a government that has Cutting Edge technology a qualitative military Edge all the Diplomatic and political power how are they this incompetent at messaging in the 21st century uh well I think they have they have structures that they're used to they're used to dealing with kind of you know this is how we deal with American Media American Media are totally under control but I think October 7th and this is what they're dealing with October the 7th was such a shock to them in one sense it was humil not in one sense but it was a humiliating defeat where you know where the the Israeli military was simply overrun uh you know by a few battalions of uh of of Hamas and I think they were in a panic and I think they're not used that they they simply did not re they did simply didn't think that they would be this level of opposition to them and so when the level of opposition is so great as it was in this case and they have to kind of think on the Fly and they have to think on the Fly then they do these you know these amateurish things I mean but I also want to say you know these things become apparent after a while but when they first happen um there is no questioning of it and when it first happens you know it's like the the stories about the beheaded babies I mean clearly something that was made up but it it performed its function in the short term even though in the long term it is being totally debunked let's talk about that for a second I mean you're right I mean after October 7th there were so many alleged atrocities committed by Hamas that were being reported and to be sure war crimes were committed by Hamas uh but some of the most uh egregious claims like the 40 beheaded babies by Hamas and kufar AA or the idea that they were ripping out the fetuses of pregnant Israeli women uh these ideas were later debunked uh these horrific claims uh were Illustrated in great detail later to be false but in the moment they were accepted wholesale by mainstream corporate media outlets and CNN CBS FOX I mean I can go past it President Biden even said at some point yeah I saw the pictures you know what role do does this kind of complex of media and powerful people co-signing false Nares how does that influence public opinion well in the in the short term I think again you as you said I mean the the claims are so outlandish but what Israel needed to do was to get political space to be able to operate and to essentially you know destroy Gaza and for the first few weeks that is what they did they had there there was no opposition because every time anyone raised any opposition uh these you know these stories would be would be would be uh brought up you know that we're dealing with barbarians that we're dealing not with civilized people we're dealing with people you know who are not like us and therefore you have to take these very very Extreme Measures you know like like flattening the hole of of Gaza so again the atrocity propaganda works it only needs to work in the short term let let me let me go back I mean there's some historical examples of this right uh if if we go back to the first Gulf War you know back into you into the early 1990s early 91 um when Sadam Hussein went into Kuwait um there was not much support among the American population to uh to oppose that and so there was a propaganda campaign run uh actually focusing on uh Iraqi soldiers ripping babies out of incubators and leaving them on the floor to die and this then became what American public opinion was rallied around so these atrocity stories these atrocity Fabrications they have a shortterm goal even though later on they are they are you know proved to be false on the other hand just this week we've seen video footage from uh the T suan refugee camp in Rafa where a man is screaming in horror holding up a dead baby whose head had been blown off we've heard accounts of parents and children being burnt alive inside of their tents and yet despite the fact that these atrocities have been confirmed we haven't seen the same media outrage we haven't seen the same political outrage from the White House or anywhere else in the mainstream why are we seeing such a sharp contrast between how a baby or any human being is treated in Israel versus how a baby or any human being is treated in Palestine and again I think for that is you just have to look to see what the function of the mainstream media is the function of the mainstream media when it comes to foreign policy uh is to tell stories from the Viewpoint of our allies you know non Chomsky a long time ago in a book with Edward Herman uh talked about he said there are you know there are sympathetic victims and unsympathetic victims and sympathetic victims are the victims that are caused by our enemies and so what you know whereas whereas unsympathetic victims are the victims that are the people that we've killed that we're responsible for and therefore you know the beheaded Palestinian babies they're not like us they're they're they're barbarians you know they're they're they're Muslim Savages and therefore we don't have to think about them in the same way and and I mean I can you know you're outraged about this as you should be as anyone should be and as I think more and more people are being outraged by this um and that is I think changing uh the conversation within the country so in one sense I think Israeli hasb has really broken down and it's broken down on the edges but it's increasingly making its way into the mainstream uh the American right-wing pro-israel group uh stand with us uh has claimed that your film quote unambiguously accuses American Jewish leaders of involvement in a semi secret conspiracy and therefore they're arguing that you perpetuate the Trope of quote nefarious Jew Jewish scheming how do you respond to that how do you respond to the argument uh that you're advancing anti-Semitism through your critiques and through the the way that you critique the media and Israeli government I mean my my first response is I simply haven't watched the film because in the film we explicitly say that this is not about a Jewish Lobby this is about the Israel Lobby and the Israel Lobby is made up not just of Jewish groups is made up of of of Christians is made up of American politicians is made up of American Media so this is not about religion this is not about a and it's not done as a conspiracy this is done quite openly you know out in the open um but the but by being accused of being anti-semitic it's a way of trying to shut down the discussion it's a way of trying to shut down the an the very careful analysis that we give uh in this and to instead paint Us in these very very broad ways uh the the interesting thing is this these accusations are no longer working because I think there's the there there are broader stories around this now and a lot of the opposition of course to what Israel is doing you know comes from Jews comes from non Zionist Jews um you know there was a um Frank luns the Republic poster yeah uh he did some research recently and the and the the results of it were leaked uh at the gry Zone um and he said you know the most the the two most dangerous things to Israeli uh propaganda and to Israeli Nar the two most dangerous things are when Jews speak out against Israeli policy and when you see the images of what Israel has has been doing in Gaza those two things are the most negative things that that that work against Israeli propaganda and so when you know young Jews are saying you know for me to be a Jew for me to live up to my values of of Judaism means to stand up stand up against what Israel is doing in stand for the Palestinian people and I think that's one reason why the anti-Semitism claim the anti-Semitism accusation is simply not working anymore uh because there's so much you know counterevidence to it so J thank so much for joining us on up front thanks very much
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Channel: Al Jazeera English
Views: 41,483
Rating: undefined out of 5
Keywords: American media, Benjamin Netanyahu, Gaza, Gulf war, Hasbara, Iraq, Is Israel losing the information war on Gaza, Israel, Israel War on Gaza, Israels information warfare, Israels public relations strategy, Kuwait, Lebanon, Lobby groups, Marc Lamont Hill, Palestine, President Joe Biden, Propaganda, Rafah, Sut Jhally, Warfare effort, antiSemitism
Id: bIPpsf6anfY
Channel Id: undefined
Length: 11min 14sec (674 seconds)
Published: Fri May 31 2024
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