NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW WAS REAFFIRMED. >> GOOD EVENING, ONCE AGAIN, I AM STEPHANIE RUHLE. WHAT A WEEK AND WE HAVE HAD. WE ARE NOT 158 DAYS AWAY FROM THE ELECTION, AND DONALD TRUMP, THE PRESUMPTIVE REPUBLICAN NOMINEE IS NOW THE FIRST U.S. PRESIDENT TO BE CONVICTED IN A CRIMINAL TRIAL. A JURY IN NEW YORK CITY FOUND HIM GUILTY ON ALL 34 CHARGES OF FALSIFYING BUSINESS RECORDS TO HIDE HUSH MONEY AHEAD OF THE 2016 ELECTION. IT IS AN HISTORIC MOMENT, AND THERE IS A LOT TO UNPACK. WITH THAT, LET'S BRING IN OUR NIGHTCAP, MY DEAR FRIEND, EMISON B HOST, IT NBC CORRESPONDENT, AND NEW YORK TIMES BEST-SELLING AUTHOR. SHE WROTE THE BOOK ON BELIEVABLE ON THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN. MY DEAR FRIEND, KATY TUR. SHE WAS THERE WHEN THE VERDICT WAS READ. TIM O'BRIEN JOINS US. BLOOMBERG SENIOR EDITOR AND TRUMP BIOGRAPHER DANNY ZAVALA'S JOINS US. NBC LEGAL ANIMIST AND COMEDIAN, THE HOST OF THE TELL ME EVERYTHING PODCAST ON SIRIUS XM. WE HAVE THE VERDICT. THERE IS NO MORE USE OF THE WORD ALLEGED. DONALD TRUMP HAS BEEN FOUND GUILTY. WHAT DOES THIS MOMENT MEAN? >> COULD YOU SAY IT AGAIN, BUT SLOWER FOR ME? IT WOULD BE LOVELY. >> GUILTY, ALL 34. >> I THINK WE CAN SAY IT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT, COMPLETELY INCONSEQUENTIAL EVENT IN POLITICAL HISTORY. IT IS NOT GOING TO CHANGE ANYBODY'S MIND, BUT THERE IS NO WAY TO OVERSTATE THE HISTORIC IMPACT THAT IT ACTUALLY HAPPENED. THE TRIAL NO ONE TOOK SERIOUSLY. THE CASE NO ONE THOUGHT COULD YIELD A CONVICTION. AND YET, THE EMOTION AND SO MANY PEOPLE OF REALIZING AFTER THE MUELLER REPORT HAD 10 COUNTS OF INSTRUCTION AND KNOW AND CARE, AFTER THE TWO IMPEACHMENTS ANY LOSS. STEALING FROM VETERANS. NOT ENOUGH OF CONGRESS CARED. AND THE EMOTION I GOT ON SIRIUS XM LAST NIGHT FROM COLORS, GROWN MEN CALLING AND CRYING BECAUSE THEY CANNOT BELIEVE THERE WAS A BIT OF COUNT ABILITY. I WENT FROM BEING VERY CYNICAL ABOUT THE WHOLE THING TO BEING SO MOVED BY HOW MUCH PEOPLE'S FAITH HAS BEEN RESTORED BY THESE 12 NEW YORK JURORS. >> LET ME CHIME IN. HE LOST THE LAST PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION AND PEOPLE CARED. >> YOU LOST THE LAST TWO IF YOU WANT TO BE CYNICAL ABOUT IT. >> HE LOST THE MIDTERM ELECTIONS, AS WELL. THE OVERFLOW ROOM INSIDE THE COURTHOUSE THAT WAS RIGHT NEXT DOOR. >> SHE IS FLEXING, SHE WAS THERE THE WHOLE TIME. >> I WANTED TO SEE HIS FACE. I WANTED TO SEE HOW HE WOULD REACT TO POTENTIALLY BEING FOUND GUILTY. AND I WANTED TO KNOW IF HE WOULD RAISES EYEBROWS, IF HE WOULD SHRUG HIS SHOULDERS. WHAT WOULD HIS FACE LOOK LIKE LEXI >> YOU BROUGHT BINOCULARS. >> I DID BRING BINOCULARS, THE SCREEN IS VERY SMALL. ANYWAY, IT WAS SUCH AN OVERWHELMING EXPERIENCE, BEING IN THAT ROOM. BECAUSE WHEN THEY STARTED READING THE COUNTS, IT WENT SO FAST AND THERE WAS ANXIETY, THERE WAS TENSION. PEOPLE WERE SHAKING BECAUSE WHO KNOWS WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN NEXT? DOES IT IT AFFECT THE OUTCOME OF THE ELECTION? IS THE CLINICAL VIOLENCE BECAUSE OF THIS? HOW THOSE JURORS MUST BE FEELING TONIGHT, TODAY, TOMORROW, AND THE NEXT DAY AS THEY THINK ABOUT OH GOD, WHAT IF MY IDENTITY GETS RELEASED? WHAT IF I AM DOXXED? WHAT IS THE JUDGE THINKING? IT FEELS LIKE WE ARE STANDING ON THE EDGE OF SOMETHING, I JUST DON'T KNOW WHAT. >> WE ARE ON THE EDGE OF SOMETHING. IT IS THREE MORE CASES. WHETHER OR NOT THEY EVER GO TO TRIAL REMAINS TO BE SEEN. WHAT IS AMAZING ABOUT THIS CASE IS THIS IS THE ONE THAT WAS ON NOBODY'S RADAR INTO REALLY ONLY A COUPLE MONTHS AGO. PEOPLE WERE SAYING OH, THAT IS SCHEDULED BUT IT WON'T GO FORWARD, BECAUSE ALL THESE OTHER TRIAL DATES KEEP GETTING PUSHED OUT. NOBODY EXPECTED THIS CASE TO BE MUCH. PEOPLE PUT IT AS NUMBER FOUR OUT OF FOUR OF THE CRIMINAL CASES AGAINST DONALD TRUMP, ME INCLUDED. I DID NOT PLACE IT VERY HIGHLY. IN MY VIEW, ANY FEDERAL CRIMINAL CASE IS ALWAYS GOING TO HAVE A BETTER CHANCE OF CONVICTION THAN ANY STATE CRIMINAL CASE. AND I STILL THINK THAT IS THE CASE. BUT THE PRACTICAL REALITY IS THAT IF DONALD TRUMP IS ELECTED AND HE IS INAUGURATED IN ANY OF THOSE FEDERAL CASES ARE STILL PENDING, THEY WILL GO BYE-BYE. THEY WILL GO PROOF. THERE WILL BE AN ATTORNEY GENERAL APPOINTED WHO WILL MAKE THEM GO AWAY. SO IF THEY EVER GO TO TRIAL, HIGH LIKELIHOOD OF CONVICTION. I JUST HAVE TO SAY, THE NEW YORK CASE, I DID NOT SEE IT COMING UP THIS QUICKLY. I FELL ASLEEP ON IT, AND ALL OF A SUDDEN IT WAS UPON US. EVEN TO THE LAST MINUTE, I THOUGHT WELL, THAT TRIAL DATE HAS TO GET PUSHED OUT. AND THEN IT DIDN'T. AND IT WENT FORWARD. >> WHAT DO YOU THINK THIS MOMENT MEANS? DO YOU THINK IT ONLY CONFIRMS PEOPLE'S POLITICAL VIEWS? >> I SORT OF DON'T REALLY CARE ABOUT THE POLITICS OF IT RIGHT NOW. I THINK THE RAMIFICATIONS OF THIS, THERE IS A SENTENCING COMING UP, THERE IS AN ELECTION, THERE ARE DEBATES, THERE ARE SO MANY MOMENTS BETWEEN NOW AND NOVEMBER. BUT SOMETHING JOHN SAID EARLIER ABOUT MUELLER DIDN'T GO THERE, THE IMPEACHMENTS DIDN'T GO THERE. I THINK THAT IS A REALLY IMPORTANT THING TO LAND ON, BECAUSE BOB MUELLER ASSEMBLED A DEVASTATING INFORMATION ABOUT DONALD TRUMP, BUT HE CHOSE NOT TO PROPAGATE IN THE COURTROOM. HE LEFT THAT UP TO THE U.S. ATTORNEY'S OFFICE IN NEW YORK AND CONGRESS TO LOOK AT THE EVIDENCE AND DO SOMETHING WITH IT. THEY CHOSE NOT TO DO ANYTHING WITH IT. >> AND ALMOST NO ONE READ HIS MULTI-HUNDRED PAGE REPORT. >> WE DID, AND ARE MEMBER TALKING TO YOU ABOUT IT. AND CONGRESS IMPEACHED HIM TWICE. THE HOUSE IMPEACHED HIM TWICE. THE SENATE CHOSE NOT TO TAKE THE TRIAL. DONALD TRUMP IS TURNING 78 YEARS OLD THIS MONTH. AND FOR ABOUT FIVE OF THOSE DECADES HE HAS GOTTEN AWAY WITH LYING, EXAGGERATING, UNDERMINING THE ROOTS OF CIVIC AND CIVIL SOCIETY. AND THIS IS THE FIRST TIME THAT HE HAS BEEN BROUGHT INTO A COURTROOM AND THAT ACT NO LONGER WORKS. AND IN ALL OF THESE INSTITUTIONAL MOVEMENTS THAT HAVE OCCURRED AROUND HIM DURING HIS PRESIDENCY AND HIS POST- PRESIDENCY, THIS IS THE FIRST ONE WHERE HE GOT PUT IN A BOX AND THE FACTS GOT PRESENTED TO A JURY, AND ALL THE BLOVIATING AND THE BS LOST THEIR POWER. HE EMPLOYED ONE OF HIS THREE LAWYERS TO ESSENTIALLY TRY TO DO THAT FOR HIM. EMBARRASSED THE WITNESS, DEFEND YOUR CLIENT IN A NONSTRATEGIC WAY THAT APPEALED TO HIS EMOTIONS, BUT WASN'T STRATEGICALLY WISE. THE JURY SAW THROUGH THAT. JUSTICE MERCHAN SAW THROUGH IT. AND THEY DELIVERED A 34 COUNT GUILTY VERDICT. >> I WANT TO STAY ON THAT POINT. BECAUSE HE JUST SAID HE INSTRUCTED ONE OF HIS LAWYERS. KATIE, YOU HAVE COVERED HIM FOR YEARS. YOU KNOW HIM SO WELL. WAS ONE OF THE BIGGEST CHALLENGES FOR TRUMP'S DEFENSE TEAM TRUMP HIMSELF? >> OF COURSE. OF COURSE. WHY DO YOU THINK THEY DENIED THAT HE HAD SEX WITH STORMY DANIELS? THEY DIDN'T NEED TO DO THAT. THEY OPEN THEMSELVES UP TO STORMY DANIELS TESTIFYING ABOUT THE DETAILS OF THE ENCOUNTER. ANYTHING THEY MADE A POINT TO REPEATING THAT DAVID PECKER SAID THAT HE SOLD THE MOST MAGAZINES EVER? WHY DO THEY KEEP SAYING THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES? ALL OF THAT WAS AT LEAST, IN PART, TO ASSUAGE THE EGO OF THEIR DEFENDANT. I MEAN, WE WOULD NOT BE HERE IF IT WASN'T FOR THE EGO OF THIS DEFENDANT. THAT IS WHAT GETS HIM AND ALL THIS TROUBLE. HAVING THE AFFAIR, ALLEGEDLY, WITH THE ADULT FILM STAR WHILE MELANIA HAS A BABY UPSTAIRS. ALL OF THE EGO SURROUNDING THIS IS WHAT GOT HIM INTO THIS DECISION. THE FACT THAT HE RAN FOR PRESIDENT, THEN HE RAN FOR PRESIDENT AGAIN IN LIGHT ABOUT ALL THESE THINGS. IT IS ALL EGO DRIVEN. >> AND HE WAS NEVER HELD ACCOUNTABLE, BECAUSE OF WEALTH WHEN HE WAS YOUNGER, CELEBRITY WHEN HE WAS A LITTLE OLDER. >> AND HE HAS THE UNIQUE ABILITY TO HAVE NO SHAME. >> IT HAS BEEN HIS SUPERPOWER. BUT THINK ABOUT ALL THE PEOPLE IN THE LAST 24 HOURS WHO WERE SAYING IT WAS A KANGAROO COURT, IT WAS UNFAIR, IT WAS A SHAM. I HAVE YET TO FIND ANYONE SAYING HE DIDN'T DO IT. >> I HAVE YET TO FIND ANY OF THEM SAY WHICH SPECIFIC CHARGE, AND THERE ARE STILL 54 CHARGES TO GO. AT WHICH SPECIFIC CHARGE HE IS INNOCENT OF. MY FAVORITE OF THE DEFENSE IS WELL, JESUS WAS CONVICTED, TOO. AND I HAVE SEEN THIS ALL DAY LONG. LITERALLY COMPARING THIS MAN TO THE NAZARENE BECAUSE THE IMAGES, THE AI. >> IS NOT SURPRISING. THERE IS A WHOLE RELIGIOUS MOVEMENT AROUND DONALD TRUMP. THEY TAKE HIS NAME AS THE TRUMPETS. THE RELIGIOUS MOVEMENT SEEING HIM AS A SAVIOR. >> FOR ME THAT IS MY PET ISSUE. THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN SUPPORT TRUMPETS IF YOU THROW OUT THE ATTITUDES. IF YOU THROW OUT MATTHEW 25. AND THE IRONY OF THE SITUATION AS TRUMP AS A CHRIST FIGURE IS IT WAS MIXING CONSERVATIVE RELIGION AND AUTHORITARIAN POLITICS THAT GOT JESUS KILLED IN THE FIRST PLACE. THEY DON'T KNOW HOW TO DEFEND HIM. THEY ARE JUST ATTACKING THE SYSTEM ITSELF. THAT IS WHY IT IS SO MOVING TO ME TO SEE THE REPUBLICAN PARTY FINALLY EMBRACING CRIMINAL JUSTICE REFORM, BECAUSE THEY'RE GOING TO START FIGHTING FOR A CONVICTED FELON TO GET DAILY BRIEFINGS REALLY SOON. >> DANNY, LET'S TALK ABOUT SOMETHING THAT THE JURY DID THAT, AS LAWMAKERS HAVEN'T. ANYONE MEMBER OF THIS JURY COULD HAVE IGNORED ALL EVIDENCE AND SAID NOT GUILTY. AND IF THEY HAD THEY COULD IMMEDIATELY HAVE MONETIZED IT AND BECOME A RIGHT-WING MEDIA STAR. THEY WOULD BE ON TELEVISION. THEY WOULD BE DOING SPEAKING APPEARANCES. MAYBE THEY COULD GET A JOB IN THE NEXT POTENTIAL TRUMP ADMINISTRATION. HOW EXTRAORDINARY IS IT THAT THESE 12 ORDINARY NEW YORKERS, NONE OF WHOM ASKED FOR THIS, RIGHT? WHEN YOU GET CALLED TO JURY DUTY IT IS LIKE GETTING CHAIN MAIL. THEY SHOWED UP, THEY DID THEIR JOBS, AND THEY PUT PUBLIC SERVICE ABOVE SELF. >> IT IS MORE IMPRESSIVE THAN THAT WHEN YOU THINK OF IT. WE ALWAYS SEE THE END RESULT, THE 12 JURORS. REMEMBER, WE HAD A PROCESS WHERE YOU ALSO HAD OTHER NEW YORKERS WHO WERE WILLING TO RAISE THEIR HAND AND SAY YOU KNOW WHAT? I AM TOO BIASED. I CAN'T SERVE, I CAN'T BE IMPARTIAL. AND THEY STOOD UP AND WALKED OUT. THAT IS ACTUALLY SOMETHING THAT TRUMP AND TODD BLANCHE WERE COMPLAINING ABOUT. I ACTUALLY THINK IT IS AN ADMIRABLE THING ABOUT OUR JURY SYSTEM, THAT PEOPLE IN NEW YORK ARE GOING TO HAVE CERTAIN BIASES, JUST LIKE PEOPLE IN STATEN ISLAND ARE GOING TO HAVE DIFFERENT BIASES BASED ON POLLING, BASED ON ELECTION RESULTS. IN ALL OF THOSE PEOPLE WERE HONEST ENOUGH, AT LEAST TO THE BEGINNING. SOME OF THEM SELF-SELECTED, RAISE THEIR HAND, AND SAID YOU KNOW WHAT? I'M OUT OF YOUR. I CAN'T BE FAIR AND IMPARTIAL. IN THE 12 THE REMAINED WERE NOT 12 RANDOM PEOPLE. THEY WERE 12 PEOPLE WHO HAD TO LOOK THEMSELVES IN THE MIRROR AND SAY I CAN DO THIS, I HAVE OPINIONS, I MAY HAVE VOTED A CERTAIN WAY, I MAY HAVE THOUGHTS ABOUT THE PRESIDENT. BECAUSE, LOOK, THIS IS NOT A CASE WHERE YOU WILL FIND SOMEONE WHO DIDN'T KNOW WHO DONALD TRUMP WAS. THIS IS NOT A CASE WHERE YOU WILL FIND SOMEONE ON THE JURY WHO HAD NO OPINIONS ABOUT DONALD TRUMP. I THINK IT IS VIRTUALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO HAVE ZERO OPINIONS ABOUT DONALD TRUMP AREA AND EVERYBODY IN AMERICA HAS A THOUGHT ABOUT DONALD TRUMP. AND YET, BY THE TIME YOU GOT THOSE 12, ONCE THEY HAD WITHSTOOD THE CRUCIBLE OF EXAMINATION DURING THE PROCESS, THOSE WERE PEOPLE WHO I GUESS I AM NOT THAT SURPRISED, WHO HAD SELF-SELECTED, KEPT THEMSELVES ON THE JURY, AND YOU ARE RIGHT. THERE WAS ALWAYS A CHANCE OF A STEALTH JUROR WHO WOULD'VE SAID I AM GOING TO SAY ALL THE RIGHT THINGS AND SNEAK ON THIS JURY. YES, THAT WAS A POSSIBILITY. MAYBE WE GOT LUCKY. MAYBE WE GOT HISTORICALLY LUCKY. MAYBE AMERICAN HISTORY GOT LUCKY BECAUSE NO STEALTH JURORS APPARENTLY MADE IT ONTO THE JURY. ALTHOUGH REPUBLICANS MIGHT SAY A STEALTH JUROR FOR THE PROSECUTION GOT ON THE JURY. >> I'M SURPRISED YOU WOULD EVEN PUT THE MAY BE ON THERE. LIKE THERE MIGHT'VE BEEN A POSSIBILITY. I WOULD'VE THOUGHT YOU WOULD HAVE LOOKED AT THAT JURY AND SAID OF COURSE THEY WERE IMPARTIAL. >> I DO THINK THEY WERE IMPARTIAL. I DO THINK THIS WAS AN IMPARTIAL JURY. I THINK THEY SELF-SELECTED THAT
