- People wanted to know the difference between introversion and depression and for me, I thought why,
those are two separate things but people confuse them all of the time. - I can't imagine why they do. I mean, it's really, I mean, it's like confusing a
banana and a chocolate cake. - That's the way I look at it. - It could not be, you eat them both. That's it. So I think that a big
issue is that introversion, a couple of things, it's a
very pathologized pattern in our society, right? We view it as somebody who is, we don't value people who wanna be alone and we view depression as being consistent with social withdrawal. A person who's depressed is
gonna retreat to their home. They're not gonna come out. They're gonna close the blinds. That's not what an introvert does. An introvert's got the windows open. An introvert's just fine. They are not, they are not depressed. They are not sad. I think a term that has
actually come up in past classes on MedCircle, it's a fancy
term called egosyntonic, okay? Egosyntonic merely means
that the state you're in is consistent with who
you are like it's good. So introversion is by and
large an egosyntonic state. Introverts are cool. In fact, the only reason they're not cool is people telling them it's not cool but otherwise, they're like,
yeah, I'm kind of feeling this like this works for me, please let me be. That's not depressed. Nobody who's depressed
is that ever egosyntonic. Nobody wants to be depressed. So they're really unrelated. Now, can an introvert be depressed? Sure but so too can an extrovert. - That's right. - So I mean, it's sort
of an equal opportunity mental illness. - Yes, yes. Now, how does an introvert compare to someone with social anxiety? - Okay, so Irene told
me something brilliant. She, this is how. - And in case someone
skipped our first session. - Yes, I will. So my graduate student and assistant and introvert expert extraordinaire, Irene Hernandez taught
me this beautiful way of remembering it. I wanna give her credit 'cause
it's really, it's lovely. It's "introversion is your way. Social anxiety is in your way." - Wait, say it again though. - "Introversion is your way." - Is your way, yeah. - "Social anxiety is in your way." - Got it.
- Okay? - Got it. - So introversion is simply who you are. A person with introversion may not necessarily be socially anxious. Social anxiety is
characterized by almost a fear of being criticized,
ridiculed or looking foolish in a social situation and it's a real concern
with being scrutinized. Now, that's not to say your
average bear who's an introvert wants to get up and talk
in front of 1000 people. That's in fact where you and
I who are both introverts may be a little bit of an anomaly but the fact is though that they are not, if they go and they're
with a group of people, they're not sitting there
the whole time wondering, do people dislike me? Now, is it possible for an
introvert to be socially anxious? Absolutely. It's not synonymous though and I think a mistake that people make is that she's introverted
so she's afraid of people. That's not true at all. She's introverted 'cause
she's introverted. - [Kyle] Right. - That's it. - So my friend invited me to Coachella, the big musical festival in California. I said, I don't want to go to that because that seems like a terrible way to spend money and time
and why are you laughing? - I'm thinking like the
introversion rates at Coachella have to be less than 1%. - Right, right, exactly. And so I said, no, I don't wanna go. So my friend goes and
then texts me and goes, you would hate it here. - Oh yeah. - Because they know how I
would react in that group. That doesn't mean I had a fear of going or I thought if I go,
people won't think I'm cool or that I'm gonna be judged
'cause I'm not a music fan. I just didn't want to be there. It was not my way. - [Ramani] That's right, that's right. - Okay, social anxiety
did not get in my way in that example. - Well, that's a beautiful example of that and if for some reason
you had to go to Coachella like we did MedCircle
Coachella Series, right, you would go, you would do your job but you'd probably be pretty
tired at the end of it. So it's not and you wouldn't be anxious. You would just say, this
isn't really my scene but you'd go, you'd go
with it but you wouldn't, a person with social anxiety
at Coachella would be anxious. Their heart might even be racing. They might even sometimes have
symptoms of panic attacks. They may be worried that
everyone is staring at them and making fun of them and
they'd be afraid to talk because they're afraid
they'd look foolish. That's not what your experience would be and I think if we only do
one thing in this session is to debunk these myths about introverts because it really breaks my heart to think about how many people
out there who are introverted who actually think there's
something wrong with them. That's like saying
somebody who has brown eyes that there's something wrong with them. It's who you are. It's a trait. It's a quality and I think
that it's just that we happen to be an extroverted society, certainly at least in the United
States so we celebrate it. - It's like you are taking
the words out of my brain and speaking them but
it makes me feel good. It's such a relief because you're right. If I did go do a MedCircle class, by the way, Callie's here,
she's an extrovert, okay? - Like all dogs. - Like all dogs, extrovert. We said on the break cats are introverts, dogs are extroverts but if I had to do the MedCircle thing, I would be exhausted at the end, exhausted because I would have to be extroverted. - Yeah, absolutely and I feel the same way when I
spend a whole day on a shoot, I'm making a documentary
or something like that and I'm with a big crew and everything, I'm tired at the end. - Yeah, yeah. Does depression look
differently in an introvert than it does in any other person? - I think in a person who's introverted, there may be some risks. For example, when a
person becomes depressed and they have friends or
loved ones around them, they, one of the first things we may
notice is social withdrawal but if an introvert is
already keeping to themselves, that pattern may not be as
pronounced in them, right, 'cause they were already kind
of like prefer time alone and so some patterns might get missed. I think though for an introvert, you would see the same patterns of sadness and loss of pleasure and changes in how they
think and perceive the world and all of that. What they may be less likely to do is reach out to people and talk about it. So other people may not
hear about it as quickly because that may not, even on a good day, they may be less likely to do that 'cause just less likely
of what they might do but that said, doesn't mean
that a person who is introverted won't seek out help. People with depression are simply less likely to
sometimes seek out help because they are sort
of feeling ineffective and apathetic and exhausted but since people who are introverted maintain perfectly fine
close, close relationships, they may feel comfortable
saying, I don't feel great. However, for an introvert, therapy and making a new
relationship with a therapist, there may be a little bit
more of a step back from that and more reluctance and sort
of a slower drive to get in and for therapy to take hold. It doesn't mean it can't work
and can't work beautifully. I've worked with many
introverted clients actually. Once we make the connection,
it's wonderful, it's great. They really use the space well, but some of these things just
take a little bit longer. - It seems though that an introvert would be more likely to socially isolate. - They're always going to
be less socially active. So I think socially isolated almost actually feels more
of like a pathologized term. They may do less of that kind of putting themselves
out there with other people. Isolation almost feels
like I'm cutting myself off from the world. They're actually just, I'm
pretty content to be at home. So does that make sense? It's not like I'm locking
the doors against the world. - It does make sense and the reason I'm speaking
from personal experience so much is because I both have had
depression and I'm an introvert but I have noticed that
I will socially isolate but that is a symptom of depression. - Depression, bingo.
- Not introversion. - That's the point. So you will socially isolate
in the name of the depression but when you're not depressed,
you won't socially isolate. You'll have the same
level of social engagement as you did before. - That is such a big moment for me and anybody else who's an
introvert with depression I would imagine because I
can recognize the difference between social isolation and just preferring to
spend the night by myself. There's a huge feeling that,
the difference in feeling and so if I'm noticing myself
on the social isolation point, I think there would be a
part of me before this moment that would have said, well, no, that's just because you're an introvert and you're ignoring the red flag that is no, your depression is acting up. That's big. - That's a big one. I think many times people
who are introverted often feel sort of
unheard and unrepresented in a lot of the conversations and writings about mental health because it feels sometimes it's different in their experiences than represented. So I hope that's an important takeaway.
