Interviewing and Hiring Senior Engineering Managers

[Music] hello my name is kuba Karski and this is deaf team project a podcast exploring methods approaches and skills needed to build great engineering team everyone's ready so welcome to today's deaf team project episode another deaf team project episode and today our guest is Amy Miller recruiter engineering management record are actually at Google and she used to work for for Microsoft a really long time and I know that she also did a lot of job for like recruiting agencies and you know recruited every everything from truck drivers to CFOs and and yes Amy thank you for being here thanks for having me I'm excited good to chat with you again yes so like our goal is to figure out what makes engineering teams really really great and I think like engineering management culture is definitely part of this and this is what we would like to talk about today with you so can we start with just you know some info about about your soul yeah absolutely so I've been recruiting forever like a hundred and forty years in dog years or something so no it's been a really long time I've been recruiting in the industry for about twenty years half of that time has been pretty solidly in tech so a couple big companies obviously that I've worked at I've worked in agency I've worked with smaller firms as well and I've hired a lot of engineers and I've seen a lot of teams being built and a lot of teams doing great and so seen a lot of different flavors of it and yeah I'm just excited to explore this topic with you guys and you know it's really the leadership is so important so thanks for having me mm-hmm maybe like we could kick this off with kind of a differences between you know Microsoft and Google you know I I think super interesting really when you think about any big tech company one thing that I really appreciate about both companies that I've personally had experience with is they recognize that they're really they're engineering companies at their hearts like the heart and soul of the organization is built on engineering and it's built on building and creating amazing technology and making the world better through products and services that that are just I mean the technology has changed so much in the last several years and I know for myself my first recruiting job I was handing people paper applications and so now being in this amazing organization and both companies really where I've had an opportunity to hire the smartest people and artificial intelligence and just all the the amazing stuff they're doing and so just recognizing that the engineers are the heart and soul of the organization's is is huge one thing that I would say if we're maybe trying to compare a little bit I do appreciate that that my current employer is really embracing a variety of sites it's not just Bay Area centric you know that's obviously a huge spot for a big tech Silicon Valley is still you know of a huge place for for this stuff to happen but I sit in Seattle you know I'm up in the northwest and I'm helping recruit Europe and so they're just cool stuff happening globally which i think is really nice and that's that's one of the distinctions I think between companies that are maybe pretty location centric or headquarter centric versus recognized that this talent exists everywhere and build it where they are it's kind of cool yeah I think that's three great and helps a lot you know with bringing all the diversity yes into their company absolutely and if like we're at the subject so maybe we could tell our audience a bit about you know Google engineering management hire area and you know how it looks and you know still like remembering that our audience our engineering my absolutely gosh I'll try to do right by them yeah so you know hiring managers versus hiring a more traditional you know entry level engineer university hiring things like that I mean there's definitely some subtle differences and I've I've hired managers at a few places but I so I'll speak somewhat broadly but hopefully still provide some good context hiring a leader they're focused on a couple of key things first of all a leader wants to know what they're getting into more so than then it's not just myself as a leader I have a team I might be leaving I might be walking away from an organization that I've built and people I've managed so there's definitely a people element to even just getting a leader to think about leaving to think about coming to my company is like well gosh I've I've hired ten people in the last five years and I watch them grow and it's kind of like leaving your kids that may be right so so that's one thing that's definitely top of mind and then the second that I guess maybe the other half of that is what am i inheriting versus building so am i coming into an organization that's well-established that has a team of engineers that may or may not love having a new boss or am i coming in and building from scratch am I gonna start over and build something new so there's all the usual stuff there's what kind of tech them I gonna work on what am I going to build what am I gonna fix what am I going to improve all of those things are still very important and I think most engineers I hope would agree with me on this like you want to work on cool stuff you have an impact maybe it's a global massive impact you're gonna go build Twitter maybe it's a smaller like hey I'm building internal tools for people sit close to me impact can look like a lot of different things but you have all of that that I think resonates with nearly every engineer plus the leadership element the people focus and the best engineering managers that I've been able to work with over the years have that sense of the importance of that side of their job it's not just the technical leadership it's not just project scoping or you know driving for a particular result it's taking a team of people and making them the best that they can be so I always want to make sure that I'm thinking about that I'm asking questions about that and making sure that our opportunities are kind of aligning with what's important to my candidates as well mm-hmm and maybe let's talk about like let's say I'm an engineer eater and I want to be hired by by Google let's talk the process look like what should I expect right right let's talk briefly yeah I mean you know certainly in an organization like this the bar is high you know I think everyone knows that that's no secret couple key things that we look for are the technical expertise and aptitude and then the leadership stop so we kind of talked about that but we're really still vetting both sides very carefully we we are looking for those strong signals that hey this person's been an individual contributor and has been a strong engineering and has has written great code developed great things so that's important but we're balancing that with the leadership stuff and people management and growth and development so I really as I'm as I'm thinking about the the people that I'm hoping to talk with and hoping to convince to maybe enter into this being my candidate I kind of want to see both sides of that I I really you know they're both equally important it's really hard to say you know well hey I don't need this piece I need that piece because we really need it all we need that great blend of just technical strength and the soft skills on the leadership side and a great question is how do you evaluate those how do you know yeah that's I mean that's the problem with interviewing no matter where you are no matter what you're looking for no matter what the question is it's a lot of it it can be a bit of a leap of faith you know we can prove some stuff can you write code or not you know I mean that's pretty clear right you can stand at a white board and knock it out or you can't or you can show that you've built this or or created that leadership is a little trickier because it is it is a lot of just anecdotal behavioral type stuff tell me about a time when and so I really look for those stories you know tell me about who was the last person you promoted what would that look like when have you had to maybe let someone go or redirect someone if they weren't being successful in their current role so we're kind of looking for the the proof if you will or the the situations that you've encountered the things that you've run into that show us that you've been through it you've been there done that got the t-shirt maybe some scars so yeah we really want to understand your stories we want to kind of see what problems you face and really how you handle them the thought process is important too and how do you know these are like really true great question you know I think a lot of interviewing is on the honor system ain't like we're gonna trust that you've done this we're trusting you to enter our organization we're trusting that you know you you've said you've done what you've said you've done what's interesting with with engineering and maybe this is a Pacific Northwest thing again thinking of a couple companies I've been at it's small world a lot of people know a lot of people so there's certainly you know referrals are great and we we always I actually encourage my candidates you know hey who do you know here who know that can kind of maybe speak on your behalf or might have some insight into who you are so so that carries some weight as well but yeah I mean it's a tricky thing you know it's a lot of its trust I wasn't there I didn't watch you manage your team I didn't sit in those performance review discussions please don't lie to me and can you tell us more about project oh yeah so this is a great you can you can google it please google it's magic oxygen but it's it's a great article and basically a case study if you will that was done it talked about the importance of leadership so I share this a lot with with folks that I'm chatting with whether they're interviewing or not I think when you just think about the management philosophy here and and what I personally believe makes a good leader a lot of that is going to be you know in this in this study so again publicly available definitely encourage you you all to take a look and I just think it's a great kind of lays it out you know and it really goes into a lot of the softer stuff around you know how big of a team and how you kind of navigate the technical stuff but still remembering the people and so it's it's a great little write-up it's kind of like Google's week patio so yeah I think that's a good way to put it actually I kind of feel like I need to spend more time on it myself now I shouldn't matter that I apparently seem to uh but yeah I mean I and I loved it it was something that was made available you know I mean it this is this is something that that I think we can all anyone that's involved in leadership especially in tech can benefit from and just you know the thought process around the importance of leaders I would not be here if not for great bosses so there it's there more critical than we know sometimes mm-hmm and mmm how does the great engineering manager candidate looks like are they who are they yeah uh well they're really nice to their recruiter that's a bonus so yeah I think it's it's again it's that combination of someone who really has a good strong foundation in technical expertise you know we can't minimize the importance of knowing your stuff from from a technical point of view I don't necessarily need someone that writes code that's not I mean if you're managing and you're leading a team and you're driving technical direction you probably don't have time to code this so so I'm less concerned about that but I love seeing folks who have kept close to the to the technology and are just interested in it and are just passionate about it maybe they're doing cool stuff on the side or maybe again not required at all don't don't miss read me I hope I'm not you know sending the wrong message but you know I think it's people who have a passion for the work and people who have a passion for the direction technology is going so they're staying close to it they're heavily involved with their team so they're doing code reviews that during design reviews they're really able to take maybe an ambiguous project okay we need to go monitor comments on this and I'll just I'll use Facebook as an example right maybe there's like a safety team or you know a community standards type of team that says hey we need to figure out a way to to monitor this and manage this make sure people aren't saying nasty things in comments so how do we apply technology to that and how do we build a team that can do that so if I'm thinking of a leader for something like that you know it needs to be someone who can take what's kind of a big meaty problem and here's here's this big broad how do we stop bad actors and then how do I kind of narrow that down into the specific work that needs to be done I need to use machine learning algorithms to apply to a specific function to search for certain keywords whatever it might be can you tell how technical I am I try but I picked up a thing or two but I'm no expert but so taking those big ambu ambiguous meaty projects and turning them into Nicolle direction so being able to say hey we've got 17 projects that are all gonna feed into this larger initiative here's how we're gonna deploy that here's what I need you three folks to work on you five folks are gonna do this thing and so really being able to manage that entire team and make sure that we're meeting all those milestones or prioritizing if we can't anybody who's had more than one thing on their plate knows that something might fall off there's a possibility that I'm not gonna get everything a hundred percent so being savvy enough to recognize you know look there's something's gonna have to give so this is the most important this is mission critical for whatever reason this is the thing that something else breaks if I don't get it done and recognizing where I can make trade-offs that that's gonna be important I think in any industry certainly tact and so for the purposes of an engineering manager really being able to stand firm on those decisions and being able to say this is what's right for the company this is what's right for my projects and this is what's right for my team I can't have them working 90 hours a week I believe but you started with I don't need you to call but I guess right you need them to be able to go like you need us to holders so changing news in the past for sure for sure I think that's a critical thing at least you know the hiring that I've done in the last several years I would say it's it's difficult I certainly don't want to say impossible because what do I know but I would say it's difficult if you yourself don't have that foundation how do you train teach and guide others in it there may be a way I'm curious now you've got me thinking designers okay moving into this part of being engineering so I've heard this but I never selling myself yeah I think the question I would ask if if that was proposed to me like if I get a great referral hey this person is a designer or hey this person is a former PM or something great where can we draw parallels where there's some relatable work that you've done some great things you've accomplished something that's maybe on a different side of the project and then how do we kind of turn that into an engineer so it's it's a great question I think it's something I know I personally haven't explored but you've got me thinking but yeah I think for the most part the the ones that I've seen be successful again even if it's on the side even if it's just something they're passionate about just being close to that that software development lifecycle is definitely a great yeah I'm asking this question because I wonder if this like if this would even fit within the Google process the process for hiring a manager it's like yeah technical interview asking them we do yeah we do do we do index heavily on technical expertise for sure I mean there are there are technical interviews in addition to the people interviews yeah definitely so I think you know it with any with any organization with any team with any role we want to be flexible and we want to kind of make sure we're casting the right net and and and talking to enough of the right people but you know the bar is high there's a technical bar at an engineering organization and you know we got to meet it and if I'm coming from a small town you like really small like a start-up I'm sorry miss like yeah acting developers yeah and I've never worked for a bigger company yeah that I kind of you know people might kind of feel that ok I'm not fit for Google I never worked as an organization total and I I've heard this a lot so is this true I felt that as a recruiter you know coming out of agency coming out of small companies the company I worked at before Microsoft was about 1,200 people and I think I hired 200 of them so I said the same thing to myself I will never work for a company like that Google would never want to talk to me I have no idea how that works there's probably politics and those people are so smart and so much better than me and somehow stumbled my way into Microsoft I still don't know how I got there but I'm grateful for that time and you know even the same thing coming to Google I still even after so many years at Microsoft I felt like I'm not good enough for this that's a bunch of unicorns and I'm kind of more of a donkey no it's stubborn and everything but you know the reality is like any other company were made up of people and people come in all kinds of forms and experiences and knowledge and and just everything you can think of and so so yeah I'm proud to say that you know hey my company hires the best so we have we have strict you know criteria and a high bar but we really embrace this this diversity of experience and and people who are coming from startups and what I love about candidates from startups is Dave often had to carry a lot they've done it all start to finish there is nobody helping you there is no massive infrastructure for you to rely on and so I kind of feel like there's a scrappiness almost and I think myself like that as a recruiter to like I was used to doing a lot of the heavy lifting and I think in some ways it actually made me better at my job because when I did get into a larger organization that had infrastructure and had things to help me I was grateful for it and I was ready to take advantage of it and so I personally loved candidates from sort of I loved cannons from anywhere but you know I think there is definitely it's it's a different skill set and it's kind of a different scrappiness that resonates with me totally sense of ownership sense of pride in what I've done like I built this and I love telling candidates you know like hey if we're hiring you for a specific thing hey here's a button you can go home and show your grandma like look at that I made that happen you click that that was my team like that's cool so I love people from startups or self-employed or people who've again even going to the side stuff like hey I published 16 apps on the iOS store I mean I love that stuff it's just this this innate self driven self motivating kind of derive that that I just I it resonates with me because I'm like that too okay so like let's wrap up this Bob soil for engineer yeah curious about this yeah and let's talk about you know cooperation between you like recruiter of engineering managers and you know engineering leaders yeah inside Google how is like sure so yeah I mean I have a specific partnership with one of our product areas I personally work with you to which I love great organization abso I do work in that that kind of that small vertical that that little tiny piece or whatever horizontal anyway I work with that section right of leadership which is kind of small when you think about the whole of of the team and you know managers which we we kind of talked about early on its high-touch I mean these these folks have any number of options all the big competitors are hiring them all the startups are hiring them and giving them big fat titles so you know there's a ton of opportunity and so for me to talk them into coming into this crazy process with me and and considering a company like this especially when there's so much like oh I think I already know about you guys or I think you know the process looks like something totally different because my friend said you know there's a lot of myths that we have to kind of bust and try to undo and there's also and you kind of alluded to this about just the fear like can I even get into some place like that is that even you know is that somewhere I could be successful it would they want me and so the partnership with my leaders and my hiring managers and my team members is critical because they've been there they're able to answer those highly technical questions that I can't not a technical person believe it or not but they're really able to champion for our candidates and for our prospects like hey this is a great place to work in here's why or you might have questions about a specific process or a specific team or oh gosh it's a giant corporation now how do i how do i navigate that how do i get visibility if i'm you know again coming from that startup that we talked about and I'm used to being you know second-hand of the CTO why would I want to come be one of 10,000 people well let's talk about why because you get to work on world-class stuff that affects people all over the globe so my leaders in partnership with me are really able to provide some very specific honest true detail around that because they're living it every day and a lot of a lot of candidates and we kind of touched on this earlier their smarts I mean they think you're not gonna pull it you're just you're not gonna pull anything over on them you know I mean they're talking they're hiring themselves they're working with recruiters in a different capacity and their own companies you know far be it for me to think I'm gonna outsmart outsmart somebody exactly great word I can't even think of the word so I'm certainly not gonna do it but you know so having my hiring managers really be partners with me is critical it's so important because I need them to sanity check me and I asking the right questions am I looking at the right profiles am i kind of you know vetting for the right things that matter to you and then also just the credibility of having that person that's going to jump on the phone you know hey let's let's 15-minute coffee conversation and we can talk about some of the early stage questions and then also even getting through the process even when it's time to make an offer to someone write an engineering manager which we talked about early on they care about what they're gonna work on who they're gonna work with I'm not the only person they may not talk to me again for six months after they get here until they're ready to hire right so knowing the people that they're going to be closely aligned with who they're reporting to who's going to report to them those are conversations I want to be able to have and so pulling in my hiring teams and my partners is critical because it really takes all of us to make a hire it just does I can't do it in a vacuum I can't do it on my own and I really count on them to to you know just be my partner just be my partner we're all in this together we're all have the same goal we want to make an amazing hire for the company help me do it mm-hmm and is there like any specific way that you can partner with them on nurturing relationships no thanks so long to you it's a tie or someone it's like more than once a month yeah I can't really think about so you know it's interesting and it definitely depends on the individuals level of comfort I don't think there's a one-size-fits-all here but I've done everything from sit with my managers and say hey let's look at your network who do you know would you go to school with who are you friends with who who's on your kid's softball team you know we get creative right where are we gonna find this pipeline so we'll we'll partner on that I certainly as a recruiter have search tips and techniques and different things I can do to uncover information and kind of freak my kids out with it sometimes but you know it's all good if it's publicly available I'll find it so we partner together on that and then once we have that shortlist or we've got kind of our pool of folks that we really really want to talk to get the manager involved hey why don't you send an email I'll help you write it but you know what you're the one that's gonna make this hiring decision you're the one that this person is gonna work for if I'm a reliable as someone who gets recruited on occasion I'm definitely taking a lot more seriously a message I get from a recruiting manager that I might work for versus just any random sorcerer recruiter in another company so I think the same thing apply is maybe even more so because hey if I'm a director reaching out to inge manager I got other stuff to do I must be serious if I'm the one that's making the call so it just provides like some instant credibility and yeah like this is a real job and there's a real problem to solve and we want to talk to you about it definitely from a point of view of a candidate that helps a lot yeah so let's shift a bit right now into this topic that I really wanted to talk about which is like levels I know that was all I know some folks out there are aware of this but they're like a lot of it I heard that you know they believe in some myths about you know there's a lot of misunderstanding around it I mean what is this all about what is it all about okay so a couple thoughts on this I'll share just personally because as a candidate having been there I was very salty when I found out my level going into Microsoft I not wait I've been doing this for a long time what do you mean I'm a level such-and-such I learned very quickly that the numbers I don't want to say meaningless I feel like that would be the wrong word but it's it's interesting the mental gymnastics we put ourselves through and what I learned though was that hey this actually the number is is not as important as the expectation behind it so when I came in and thought oh man I met like this junior level so to speak it's not what we called it but that's what it felt like to me once I got in and saw the chart I felt bad and I felt like man do they know what I'm can accomplish do they understand what I can do and then when I started looking at the expectation and saying okay so when you're gonna review me in six months I need to be able to do oh now I get it because I was coming in to a very large organisation that had a lot of moving pieces and I coming from small companies hadn't had the depth of that experience and didn't have necessarily the knowledge of all the moving pieces within a really ginormous engineering org so I was brought in at a level that not only was appropriate for the ramp I needed but that allowed me to have a good first year if you know what I mean so I actually felt better after it thinking okay yeah they did have a method to their madness here they did think about what I'm going to accomplish right out the gate because I'm really good at certain things they thought about the things that I'm gonna need to ramp up on and learn to get promoted quickly which I did and so those things really put the entire level discussion and a different light for me so I'm glad I got to experience it because I think a lot of people look at it and say well I'm a level seven at Amazon there's no way I'm leaving for less than a seven that's one approach and certainly any candidate is well within their rights to feel that way but what I would caution you is if you're getting hung up on a number or on a title or something dig in with your recruiter or with your potential boss or whoever it is you're talking with at the company and say I want to talk about what this maps to I want to talk about what the expectations are of this level there are definitely external sites that you can go to I wish I find the Lincoln's okay but there there are sites where you can go to where where folks have actually mapped this out and you can pick you know three four big competitors my company my former company and a few others and see okay this level looks like this here because the numbers are all different somehow single-digit somehow double digits it's all over and that's a guideline but I wouldn't over index it on it so much without asking for more clarification I really want to know okay if you're bringing me in at that mythical six let's say and I'm a seven somewhere else what does that mean what is the true expectation tied to it how does it affect things like my compensation structure my growth potential what do I have to accomplish to get to the next level and what does that timeline look like and so hopefully especially as you're considering an offer and you're thinking seriously about making a career change I never want to make an offer that someone feels bad about and I never want to make an offer that is perceived as a step back okay so these are important things to discuss but I would really caution folks to focus on what is the impact and what is the expectation mm-hmm that's what's showing up on your performance review not your number hmm so like do you I understand correctly this is actually a framework for setting the expectations right and you know something clearly within the company absolutely every company I've worked at that has levels absolutely it is specifically tied to the expectation so as a as a level 5 engineer for example you're expected to perform certain things and you should be accomplishing certain things and so there's a whole performance review around at every company I've been at around these expectations this role does these things did you not do it did just show up and get it done or did you exceed it we want you to exceed we always want you to exceed never exceed gets you promoted so you know one thought I would I would just share you know for anyone who's struggling with a level discussion or you know if the recruiter maybe doesn't want to tell you or you know there's something going on that you're kind of like I don't have enough information just dig into the expectations dig into okay what does promotions look like how often do they happen and what do I have to accomplish because I gotta tell ya I've done not not at my current company but in a previous company worked with internal transfers and what we don't want to see is people at one level for a long time so I've seen folks be impacted in the past by maybe pushing for something a little aggressive a little higher than we might have initially been thinking and then they're there for years and years and years and we're not seeing the trajectory so just a side thought I would hope everyone keeps in mind but you know we we want to position you in a way that you succeed quickly you ramp well and you you're starting a trajectory that's gonna benefit you long term but for all the people out there that you know in the car in the companies that you know they don't have levels right yeah right why is this beneficial because often there are these systems for huge and reprise company for sure there are really you know too much of a household too much free for fur you know absolutely absolutely you know and I think that that makes it even more important to really index on expectations right I think might be different for some startups I don't know but I would I would think that each roll each designation probably has some kind of expectations tied to it so as maybe an entry-level person or a more junior person I'm probably expected to show up right X amount of code not break anything you know and so that may or may not have a level designation associated with it but you should know what does it mean that I've done a good job what did I accomplish that says I earned my paycheck and hopefully a bonus when you are looking at the larger companies whichever ones they may be that is going to map to a certain level and so it's it's sometimes it's as simple as things like X number of years of experience it may be certain education I mean there's different things that that might impact those discussions but for me in and every company I've worked with the leveling rationale it's the expectations can the person perform these specific functions at this specific expectation so is there a lot of their levels just for managers no it's just engineering yeah it's yeah I mean you have managers and you have individual contributors and they can be at the same band so but they just obviously have a different work so where does the manager start you know ladder-like which level I've seen it very pretty wildly I mean there there are some companies that may have a rule that it you know and you have to be at a certain level to be a manager it can also vary depending on on even the product area or the specific team sometimes there's internal rules but you know gosh if it's Microsoft it's 60 something Google it's probably at least a five six seven you know so yeah and five would be like a manager oh I need five software developers or is that that is it doesn't map that cleanly unfortunately yeah I mean I wish it did cuz that would be so easy oh we could just say here it is but there's it's really more around the person you know it's what what expectations does this person match what you know what can they accomplish and that might be a smaller team that might be a larger team you might be managing managers that's gonna be a higher level but in most cases but not always right because again there's all these other variables that that we look at and it's really just about making you successful putting you into a category if you will that you're gonna shine you're gonna do well and you're gonna beat those expectations and get on your way to promotion do you think it's fine or still missing something in this framework I personally miss something I mean I I gotta be honest this is this is always and I get the question a lot and I know it's important because I know engineers were talking about it um I'm always really curious and I would I would want to kind of put the question back on on our listeners like what does it mean to you you know if you're coming to me and saying hey listen again I'm a seven in Amazon right we'll use that example again and it makes no sense for me to take a level six at Google or level sixty-six at Microsoft or whatever it might be well why is that you know what what is the what happens to your paycheck or what happens to your resume if that number doesn't match the way you think it should I mean it's a really I'm curious and I think you know different people have different thoughts on that every person has to drive their career in a way that makes sense so far be it for me to tell somebody that they shouldn't care but I know for me and having gone through my own kind of mental gymnastics with that and thinking I'm a level what you know I'm really kind of being offended by it I realized that I just don't care that much I want to beat my targets and get a fat bonus that's what I care about that's the number that matters what is the number on my paycheck so yeah so I mean I think like I said there there's definitely resources out there that will give you some indicators or a lot of research that's been done externally that folks share but I just I would if if you all take one thing away from from listening to us have this discussion it's ask questions you know ask about impact ask about how does this really matter what does this look like internally I can tell you nobody cares we don't look at that we look at you know what's the scope of the work you're doing you know if you're leading a team of five but you're doing something so mission-critical that the CEO is watching pretty important but if you're two levels up but you're leading a team of 10 that's just keeping something awake that's important to but each person's gonna have a different kind of emotional currency around that what's important to them gosh you're so natural at that right and interview is like I was just going to ask you like if we could leave our audience with like one last takeaway is this the one yeah I know I think I this is this is my my takeaway from working with managers for so long at a variety of places awesome you have to really know what's important to you you you have to really take the time when you take that call from a recruiter when you say you know maybe I will answer that email or maybe I will talk to my friend that's over at that dream company take stock of what matters to you it might be leading a big team it might be working on a big media project it might be not writing hours and hours and hours of code all day and night because you got to push something out maybe there's a work/life balance issue that you you want to try for I mean everybody's gonna have their own thing it's okay at this stage in your career like you've made it your leading team you know you have been trusted with big important work now so take a minute to sit back and and really pat yourself on the back and and recognize how amazing you are right now at this stage in your career and don't be afraid to focus on the things that you want in the next phase of your career okay I've made it to management leading a cool team I'm doing really neat stuff now what and that's gonna be different for everybody but as a recruiter and hopefully as your partner and getting you through the process that's the stuff that I should be mindful of every time I pick up the phone every time I say hey there's a team that wants to talk to you hey we're ready for this next step in the interview process I need to be constantly thinking back to hey you said this thing was really important you said this was the the the critical piece you needed in your next job don't let me forget that because you have paid your dues and you have earned it thank you Amy this is like a lovely note to end on really I had a blast and this conversation is really great I could keep talking all day but I know we don't have time for that we have our 40 minutes we tried to stick it will include the links to the definitely you mentioned in our highlights and see you all in the next episode thank you [Music] [Music]

Channel: Codility

Views: 39,622

Keywords: techhiring, talentacquisition, technicalrecruiting, talentdevelopment, recruitmentstrategy, recruitmentprocess, tipsforworkingremotely, hiringdevelopers, remoterecruiting, remoterecruitment, talentrecruitment, candidateexperience, employmentscreening, talentsourcing, technicalinterviewing, managingremoteteams, talentacquisitionstrategies, hiringsoftwareengineers, hiringengineers, recruitmentstrategyplan

Id: 2kfc2hQAonM

Length: 43min 43sec (2623 seconds)

Published: Tue Jul 14 2020