I'm Matt Gibberd, co-founder of The Modern House and author of A Modern Way to Live. I believe that the most successful homes are designed according to the same five principles: space light, materials nature and decoration. In this series, we explore these principles, tour some fantastic homes and meet the people who designed and live in them. Along the way, we'll share some tips on how these ideas can be applied to any living space and how they might just make for happier homes. Hi Nikki. Hi Matt. How are you? Good, how are you? Good to see you. Do come in. Today, I've come to see the celebrated artists Ben Langlands and Nikki Bell at their self-built eco house in the Kent countryside. Light informs everything they do. They use neon in their work and their home has been designed to exploit the power of sunlight, which dances off reflective surfaces and whitewashed walls. How would it feel if it wasn't all white? Well we just wouldn't do it. White has always been part of who we are. They've named the house Untitled, a witty nod to their artistic output that also acknowledges its minimal impact on the landscape. We want to disappear, not appear. We don't want to make a building that's going to be a statement. We want to be understated. For Ben and Nikki, it's more than simply a home. It's an extension of their remarkable relationship. On a personal level, I mean in a way we're reflecting each other, because there's two of us and we work in a relationship and we've worked together for 44 years now. What we do, you know, we're sort of bipolar. We're very different people but we put the two things together and I think yes I think that's sort of fundamental, don't you? That's so interesting. I would love to start by asking you just about how you found this site and what was here, and what attracted you to it. Well, how long have you got? Is that the wrong question? No it's a very good question because we found it very intuitively. We were visiting Derek Jarman's house in Dungeness and coming back we took a country route through the country lanes and as we passed down this lane there was a filthy sign saying for sale. And we were intrigued and not having really thought about anywhere in the countryside, because we're very urban people. But this sort of led us to look at this filthy shack, which was crumbling and very nondescript. And, we stepped out and saw this incredible view and and we just thought: wow. It was mind-blowing just to see it in this position. We rang up and they said: “Oh, it's just been sold” and we said “Oh”. And they said, "By the way it's off-grid." So you liked it even more at that point. Well we thought it might be affordable being off-grid, but it was sold. Then we rang a very close friend of ours who said: "Don't take no for an answer; call them back." So we rang up again, and they said it's just been taken off the market and it was partly probably because it was off-grid and quite difficult to manage. It was actually inhabited by a Hell's Angel – a former Hell's Angel – a biker who only had partially one arm and one leg. He'd had a catastrophic motorcycle accident and his wife left him. His wife was called Nikki, like me. Nikki Leather. Nikki Leather? Yeah. Nikki Leather the biker? That's absolutely fantastic. Wow, look at that. What's lovely about this, I think especially, that you arrive above the room and you get the sense that it's sunk down into the landscape. And then your eye level is with the top of this meadow so you really feel like you're part of the outside, I think. Why buildings? Because we're surrounded by them, because they affect our life and our well-being. Buildings say so much about us and our relationships, the relationships we have with each other. They're all recorded in architecture. They're all demonstrated by architecture. They're the biggest found objects you find in the city or you know, here we're in quite an isolated position. But you know. So that begs the question, what does this building say about your relationship? It says that we like peace and tranquility and being away from the crowd, but we also need both. We like being in a city too. We're Londoners, we're both urban. And also it says that, if you want to, you can change your situation by changing your surroundings. I think building a place from scratch was a very kind of important thing to do for us and I think for a lot of
people. We’d always restored buildings previously so to actually demolish something that was here, which was a tiny shack, and then create something to our own design ourselves, was very important to us. I've got to ask is it always this tidy or is this for us? Um no, obviously when we're working, we can get very messy and then we clear it up afterwards. So does all this moves so if you need it to? Everything moves, everything's movable. It’s a movable feast and as you can see from the paint marks and the splatters on there. Which is itself extremely artful. Thank you. Are you sure you haven't done that on purpose? No. We met the planners and they said when they came, are you the sort of people that are going to put concrete horses heads on your on your gates? And we said do we look like the kind of people who put concrete horses heads on our gates? We said we want to disappear, not appear. We don't want to make a building that's going to be a statement. We want to be understated and that was something that was very important to us. We said we didn't want to cut down the trees. We wanted to keep it as natural, very discreet and we didn't want to make an impact. That was
something that we definitely wanted. And also we we explained that, you know because it was off-grid, we wanted to have micro-generation and that
the idea was to make it as sustainable as possible. They liked that. So, they turned out to be quite supportive. At first they were horrified because when they said who's going to design it and we said we are, they just rolled their eyes and thought “Oh no: They've been watching Grand Designs." Which actually we didn't have a television so we've never watched it but we've heard about it. And then we said but we we're going to design it but we're going to work with
Atelier One. And they said who are they? We said well they're engineers, they're very good. Go and look them up on the web. Anyway, the planners checked out Atelier One then they came back to us and they said: "Just go ahead, get on and do it." It's amazing, isn't it. We never really saw them again. It's a brave decision to design it yourselves.
Was there ever a question that you would use an architect or did you think we know exactly what we need. I think having worked with architecture and being familiar with plans and so much of our work is with real plans of real buildings, we just felt we'd really like to do this as part of the process, you know. We wanted to design it. We sort of felt we should test our own abilities and assumptions. We weren't really, we know how hard architecture is. We weren't really under any illusions about how difficult it would be. And it was very difficult. One of my absolutely favorite things about this house is the name. So you've called Untitled. But it's the only piece we've never named. All our works have a title and so we thought we'd do the opposite. Why did you? Well, I think also it goes back to what Nikki was saying about we don't want to make a statement. We want it to be understated. We want it to be very essential, very simple. So calling it Untitled is the ultimate expression of something that's just there. Just there, just going to be. I mean the postman knows us. But it does cause a few problems with deliveries sometimes. Does it? Yes, because they don't believe it's the name of your house. They think the name is a computer error. That's great I love that. So clever and I think it's genius I really do. I just love it. I mean obviously artists and light go together but for you in particular, it's so clear that light informs everything that you do. Tell me about that, why is that? Well, in our case because a lot of our works are very monochromatic, we need light to reveal the structure of the work. So it's light and shadow, and so in that sense we're very, very conscious of light. And on a personal level, I mean in a way, we are reflecting each other because there's two of us and we work in a relationship. We've worked together for 44 years now. What we do you know, we are of bipolar we're very different people. But, we put the two things together and I think yes I think that's sort of fundamental don't you? That's so interesting. We wanted as much light as possible but of course you know, we need light for our work in quite a specific way. We need plenty of it and we needed to be the right kind of light. So we were very conscious as we designed the building that we wanted even light; north light is good. I mean, we're not painters – we don't need light in that sense – but we were still very conscious of it. And also because we built the house off-grid we wanted the house to use as little energy as possible. And you've used a lot of top light noticeably. What is it about top light that you like? The quality of it? Why do you like it? So we were thinking really about maximizing the amount of light, rather than specifically that it's top light. Tell me what's it like to live with your own work. Is that something that you've always done and are you comfortable with it? Very comfortable. Yeah, I think it's important to live with one's own work. It kind of reflects you know, who we are. We can change it and depending on what we're working on at a particular time. Yeah OK, so it doesn't remind you too much of your the other part of yourself, which is the kind of busy part. Are you able to relax in a space that's got your work. Yeah, as long as it's displayed in the way that we want it to, which here we can display it in perfect conditions, in a way. What if it's a bit wonky? You can straighten it out. I think the mirrors create unexpected views and you know you get this sudden, startling moment, where something from outside is inside, and you're thinking, "Gosh how can that be?" Do you have a problem with finger marks? No, not really. I mean you know we've got door handles. We don't have children. But, we have art. But if there are marks, then of course, you just wipe it with a a clean cloth. It's very simple, it's like anything else that you wipe with a clean cloth in your kitchen or anywhere else. It guess it's quite practical, really, as a material and we love reflections, and I think it enhances the beauty of a space. One of the things that's maybe slightly counterintuitive, is that it's the reflected light that is most beautiful, rather than direct light a lot of the time. So, in the morning, although the light here is very beautiful, it's actually the reflected light that you see through all of the windows is very, very beautiful. It was really lovely, so the sun just came out as we were talking and we got a a cast of it there. It's very fleeting here, the light and it kind of races across the landscape so it's always changing. I think that's very exciting. This room is particularly beautiful because you can see in all directions and you can see the light changing and racing by you and it's never the same. In the evening you get this extraordinary kind of golden light at this time of year, probably around 7:30. You get this wonderful, golden light which kind of turns everything this amazing kind of orange intense, intensity of light which is just sublime. You can see the light changing now and how beautiful it becomes. Stunning, but also the wind whipping through it and moving the meadow as well. And, the leaves, it's got a kind of movement. There's a client of ours who had a single storey house up near Scotland on the Borders and she had a lovely quote which I've also liked. She said: "When the sun comes out everything starts to dance. And that's the way I see sunlight in a space. So what's immediately obvious standing here is that I'm looking down on to this mirrorred surface, looking up into the canopy of the tree which is just such a rare thing. You don't really ever do that. No it's nice seeing the tree from that position as well, looking down. You can look up the squirrel's bottoms. Quite, and we have plenty of those too. I bet you do. It's amazing. A lot of people might think this would be very hot in summer, very cold in the winter. Is that the reality? No, well it only gets direct sunlight in the morning and then, by midday the sun has moved around so it doesn't heat too much. And in the winter it's very well insulated. Come night time, is this pitch black? Yes it gets very, very dark, which is very atmospheric actually, because it's like a a dark envelope around this centrally lit space. And there's lots of bats. The bats love it. Bats and owls. We have incredible owls actually here. But you can see them can
you? Yes, barn owls come sweeping by us. I mean that's the most amazing sight when you see a barn owl. So are you good sleepers both of you? Yeah. Because obviously light plays into the way one sleeps quite a bit. Did you think about that in terms of your sleeping space and making sure you could cut out the light? We’re used to it because we had skylights in our bedroom in London in Whitechapel so we're used to having ... and our studio has skylights. So we're used to having a lot of light. But at the same time we can shut out the light in our bedroom because we have wooden oak shutters. They act in a sense, as you know, as blackout blinds. We don't need blackout blinds because the wood is a natural thing and it just opens and shuts and I sort of like the simplicity of it. So we have an oak tree and
these are the shutters which we mentioned so we can completely shut it up. Nice. So we don't have to have curtains. What a beautiful picture window. It's like you're worshiping at the altar of the oak tree. When Michael Craig-Martin came here he did say that. It's stunning, it really is. How do you light the space and what's it How do you light the space and what's the atmosphere like at night? Well, we have, as you can see, we've got lights in the ceiling. But, we tend to use just side lights. We have two ball lights and that's almost sort of enough. We sort of like the two side lights and if we need, of course, to put on the lights the LED lights in the studio or we want to look at the works then of course that reveals the modelling. Because a lot of our works are three-dimensional and the shadows are important and so is the lighting. So the lighting has to be right and we find LED lights are very, very good and they give a very nice white light that bathes the work in the kind of light that we like. Do you have it quite dimmed down in here so that you can also see out because I think if you lit it up a lot you wouldn't be able to see? Yeah it's a kind of relationship between the outside and the inside. I mean at night it's very dark outside, because you know there's nobody there. Or is there? A creeping cat maybe. Someone in the deckchair. So these very large windows, they become in a way like mirrors as well. We imbue a lot of our sort of heart, body and soul into the spaces. And we put a lot of our energy into them partly because you know every surface we've painted ourselves, we've built every cupboard, we've hung every door. You know we've immersed ourselves in the space totally. So in a sense it becomes a total work, if you like, and we see it in as an extension of ourselves. That's interesting so you see it as a total work of art. Yeah. Yeah. That's really interesting so there's there's no distinction for you between living and working really. No. I mean obviously when you're working, you're working and then you put the work away. And becomes your living. I mean they're quite seamless and interchangeable and we live and work together. So that's why for us the house and the studio, although we've got that studio space. But when we're working the whole house is a studio. We could be working on here, we could be working in there, we could be working in there. It's not a fixed space. It's not like, oh you have a dining room or you have this space or that space. It's a very flexible, movable space you know which can change. Does that ever get too much, too intense? Well, I think everybody can feel the stress of working very, very hard whatever you do. But on the whole no. You know if you're feeling you know it's too intense, you can sort of go out and change direction. You can go for a big walk around, you know. You can kind of change your mood and that often clears your mind. That's very good for your work. Yeah, because I mean you two have lived together for many, many years and worked together for many, many years as well, And you're saying that your living space is also a total work of art so there's no separation really for you between your working day and then your relaxing time. No, but it is with the people that enter into it. Because you know a lot of friends and visitors who come here we enjoy interacting with. And we interact with them in their spaces and situations too. So it's sort of interchangeable in that sense, and we enjoy it. Do you always get on well with each other? We do pretty well. What do you think? We argue about the washing up. Don't we all? Obviously you've got white walls here it which is the ultimate for reflecting the light around. Do you always use white? Tell me about that. Not always. Our last exhibition at
Charleston, we used lilac on the wall. And why white in here though? I think white is a wonderful neutral palette. It's optimistic because it reflects light, it's optimistic. We love white. I mean also the thing about white is that you just concentrate on the structure. So the structure, the space, the volumes, you concentrate on those in a way that – if you have colour – it can mediate it too much. It can influence your perception in different ways. Of course you can use that, you can exploit that intentionally. But for our work, we need to start from a more neutral position. Obviously because this is a house built from scratch, we didn't want skirting boards and also we didn't want distractions when we were displaying our work. And why didn't you want skirting? It's a modern house. I don't think it's necessary. And again everything is white. Everything is white. How would it feel if it wasn't all white? Would you find that hard? Well we just wouldn't do It. It's not us. I think you know white has always been part of who we are, so we identify with it. You can see clearly with white. What is the meaning of this house in your lives? How is it important to you? What part does it play? I think it's an important part of our identity. It's a important part of who we are and how we project ourselves and how we feel and how we relate to the world. I mean it's you know, in some ways it's everything to us. It's our life and our work. It's our relaxation. It fulfils all of those functions and it's our future and it's our past. Thanks so much. It’s been an absolutely fascinating visit, I have to say. I really enjoyed it. Oh lovely, really lovely you came over. Yeah I really appreciate it. Super.
