[Music] I'm Matt Gibberd, co-founder of The Modern
House and author of ‘A Modern Way to Live’. I believe that the most successful homes are
designed according to the same five principles: space, light, materials, nature and decoration. In this series, we explore each of these
principles, tour some fantastic homes and meet the people who design and live in them.
Along the way we'll show how these ideas can be applied to any living space and how
they might just make for happier homes. [Music] First up, it's Simon Allford, architect
and former president of the RIBA. His flat in central London is a
masterclass in how to adapt space and we'll talk to Simon about how it changed from a bachelor pad to a family home in the sky Stay tuned for concealed cupboards,
disappearing doors and secret sculleries. [Music] Matt: How are you?
Simon: Nice to see you. Matt: I'm dying to have a look.
Simon: It's half a mansion block so you get the light that you don't normally get in a
mansion block. It's an incomplete mega-structure. This is the top of the mansion block
but then in the '80s they built what they call the penthouses, which was
the original flat I bought. Then we drilled down to this flat.
Matt: It's a remarkably quiet street in an incredibly urban area.
Simon: It is an incredibly busy, noisy area but it is pretty, pretty good up here. You know,
we all think it's like having a house in the sky. [Music] Matt: Simon, in relation to space specifically, I'd love to ask you about your childhood
home. Could you tell me about what it was like spatially and whether that had any
kind of impact on you and what you do? Simon: I mean, I grew up in London but we spent
most of our weekends and holidays in Wiltshire, in a place we called 'the Cottage', which
people walking past thought was an electricity substation. It was a brutalist – but actually
not but brutalist – modern house. It was all on one level and it had beautiful clerestory
windows, so you always saw the sky and the light changing. It was open-plan, with a
little bedroom where four kids stayed and a bedroom where the parents were.
Matt: So what were the downsides of that open-plan living when you were
a child? What specifically was it? Simon: Yeah, there was always someone trying
to do something that's getting in the way of someone else. It was quite an inspiration to me.
But also it taught me that perhaps open-plan, much as it's very nice, you need some more
acoustic privacy, and rooms to break out. So in this house although we have a very large room
here, we do have lots of spaces where people can go and do different things and not be
living on top of each other and we're lucky enough to have the space to do that. But you
know I've become a fan of visual connection but also acoustic enclosures. Matt: So this is basically, kind of kids homework/art room. So I see you've got a pivoting door here. Simon: Yes.
Matt: Why? Simon: Because I like the idea that this door
would be open a lot more and therefore again that idea of you can close it all down or you can have
the doors open, you can be borrowing vistas. But this one is very much the door that's closed into
another room where they... So that's the stop.And then this is much more of a flow. And so we'll
be in there, one or two of them will be in here, you know, so it all kind of connects
much more. And here's the clerestory, borrowing light into that kitchen scullery.
Matt: Really nice. Yeah, very modernist isn't it? Simon: It's a great thing, actually,
that high-level light. I mean, in my mum's house you just get views of
trees. Here you get views of artwork... Matt: Light fittings...
Simon: Exactly! Light fittings, exactly that. Simon: I think there's a thing about acoustic privacy,
about visual connection, about spaces flowing, about spaces opening up and shutting down across
a day. But also, then, across the cycle of family life. Try and build some
accommodation of different moods into the environment you're making.
Matt: And then you've got really quite an elaborate one on the top
floor, where your study is with a sort of curved slide around the staircase.
Simon: Yeah, that's a very special project. The way that the staircase concludes is a spiral
that takes you up to my office and I wanted it to be open so you could see all the way through the
room. And Fiona was like, “You know they'll come in. You know you'll be having a meeting. You know
there'll be stuff, there'll be footballs flying up the staircase, there'll be piano, there'll
be flute, there'll be screaming and shouting and fighting.” It's my version of saying "Keep out.
I'm in this room. Keep out." It doesn't stop them, by the way. They just push it. They come in. But
it's a beautiful piece of engineering and joinery. [Music] Matt: I want to ask about your prep kitchen
over there. So, tell me why have you got that there and how is it beneficial in terms
of when you've got people over and things? Simon: We went to a friend's house and the the
lady of the house kept disappearing into this room and everything looked very tidy and neat. It was a modernist house in Hampstead. And then Fiona said to me, "They've got a scullery. We've
got to get a scullery into this house." And I was like, "I'm not really bothered about a scullery."
But then I thought I've always wanted a larder... I started designing this with her and she
started saying, "Well, why are you putting all this marble in there?" I said, "It's a
scullery to you, but to me it's a pantry where I can put ham and cheese out.
Matt: Right, right, right. Simon: So then it's got the drinks cabinet,
which, you know, is kind of, you know, part of the life the building. So it does
double up. You can dump all your stuff there, there's two drawers and a dishwasher, two
dishwasher drawers and then your microwave, oven, fridge and freezer. So it's actually quite a
hardworking space. And it borrows light from the room beyond, so it's kind of got this clerestory light.
You can free this room up to be much more than... It's where we cook and eat, but it's much less
industrial, so it gives you a bit of contrast. [Music] Matt: I think it's so interesting that you...
in one open space you've got so many different functions. As you say, you've got kind of family
dining, more formal dining. You've got a sitting area where you can sit quite formally, or as
you say you can sit in a more relaxed way. You basically use this rug to kind of demarcate
the space within the space, haven't you? Simon: Yeah, so the rug is is the piece that
allows everything to come together. I designed it with a friend of mine. The strong black
borders hold everything together and allow everything to sit within that rug, so it
becomes a powerful room within the room. [Music] Matt: You've talked about architecture being a
kind of combination of utility and delight, right? Simon: Yeah.
Matt: What do you mean by delight in architecture?
Simon: Delight is that thing that it could be basic, modest, but actually it brings
some joy. Just, you know, the touch of it, the way you look at it, the way the light
hits it – whether it's an item of clothing, or a chair, or a table, or a room. It's the idea
that, at its best, architecture can bring some joy to a sometimes grey world, you know? And
I think that's no mean achievement. It kind of grounds you in the material world in which you
live, rather than the digital virtual world, which you probably spend too much time trapped in.
Matt: What can architects do with space to give you that delight, would you say?
Simon: Really good design is about making spaces that people can inhabit in different
ways to the ways you've imagined. And not to be too specific. I always try to think about a
space saying, "Well, you could live like that." And I think you should mock up how people could
live. But they could also live like that. You can borrow views, you can borrow dimension, you can
make a small space feel bigger visually rather than physically. And then, actually, when you
finish – because when we finish, life takes over, we complete the project, but it really only starts
when we've gone – then actually people come and do something quite different with the space. And
that's actually successful design. That's not a failing, when people are using the space
differently. That actually shows that the space is generous enough to accommodate
life. It's not telling you exactly what to do and that's fabulous because I think, you
know, it's great saying: life is always right. [Music] Simon: So that's a Joe Tilson. And then of course the reality is it looks very nice now. This is the the reality of our lives.
Matt: Look at that. Simon: The kids love the pretend idea that
we look intellectual, but actually that's where the real... Joe Tilson disappears
into the corner. That's the real action. And then that's a beautiful... if you like
details, it's been routed round the plugs. Matt: So nice.
Simon: It's a fun detail that someone's bothered to get right.
Matt: So if someone wanted to replicate that, what would you call it? Fluted?
Simon: Yeah, it's concave fluting. Matt: Concave fluting.
Simon: And it's the same behind the fire. Simon: This was added because school bags, hockey sticks, football boots, everything – this hallway is is like a transit yard, with things
coming in and going out, you know what I mean? So we've tidied it for you, but normally
there's three bags going to the charity shop, there's this, that, there's three school bags,
there's sports bags. Then that gets hammered, so we... And also, actually, we decided that
mirroring that with the staircase actually... Matt: ...Really works...
Simon: ...Completed the room anyway. So this is the staircase built by
the builders. This is the secret cupboard. Matt: Oh, that is excellent.
Simon: And this is, I think this about three and a half years old now,
and it still hasn't failed. You know, I live in a world where failure is
a possibility or even a likelihood. [Music] Simon: The youngest child lives here, next to us.
And then you were talking about details: she thinks she's special because she's got a sliding
door. The reason she got a sliding door is that I couldn't make any other door work. Then also
she's got also next to her a little art cupboard, so you can store all the pictures that are due
to be framed or reframed or whatever. So it is actually quite a neat little thing. Matt: And
I notice she's written, "Keep out" on the... Simon: Yeah, yeah, she does.
Matt: Children always do that, don't they? Simon: Slightly less offensive
than some of her notes. [Music] Simon: So that was a bathroom, became a bedroom. That was a bedroom for two kids, now it's my dressing room. So it's spatial luxury. Again, trying to open
the vistas up and playing with the mirror there, which obviously the cameraman doesn't want
to see the mirror, or be seen in the mirror. Matt: He's not here! What camera?
Simon: Exactly. That's the plan of Le Corbusier's Pavillon Suisse, which was my old
man's favourite plan, so he had that printed, again, many, many years ago. And so
they all come together as a piece. Matt: Why out of interest, do you think
this was your father's favourite plan? Simon: He just thought it was the most...
He always... He had to... I think during the postmodern row he had to give a talk and he
just said, "Find me a plan that is more beautiful than that." And I think he meant it both a visual,
but also if you look at the kind of... The plastic twisting of space and, obviously, it was you
know the famous early piloti through which you walked to enter the pavilion that was sitting
outside the pavilion above. So I think it just became important to him as as an architect.
And then, you know, I've kept it because obviously I went to see the Pavillon Suisse
30, 40 years after him, so there's a bit of history there. Everything I like is out to be
enjoyed: cigarette cards, stamps for letters, you know. So it's just, kind of... I never had train kits as a kid, but I'm a football nut and a Sheffield Wednesday nut and I bought myself the
Sheffield Wednesday 1933 locomotive from Hornsby. I do actually have the track and I put it up once
or twice but I just like the fact I've got it and it's out now. This just means I'm surrounded by a
little bit of history. So that's my late sister, who died 25 years ago. You know, pictures
of people you know... So it's architecture, people I knew, so it's just kind of comforting,
which is what a home can be at its best. [Music] Matt: And what about the changes of level,
because especially in your bedroom it's very noticeable that you drop down into it? Simon: Because in the '80s they'd built these penthouses over these original flats,
they floated the floor. So there's the old joist and there's the new joist. And it was a
one-metre zone and I just thought that's wasted, so I took all of that floor out. But where there
are steels holding the whole structure together, I didn't touch it. And they almost make wells
of space. It actually wins you volume because as you drop down, the headroom increases, the
actual usable floor area increases, so it works on a multiplicity of levels.
Matt: Yeah. Simon: Before the kids came there was... I
did the flat up. Then Fiona moved in. Then we bought upstairs. Then the twins came, so
we moved a bathroom and put it where the staircase is now. Then Orla came so we redid the
kitchen. So we've lived too much with builders. And so this is our room now. So it's quite
ridiculous, what we used to live in as a family has become our bedroom suite.
You want to come in? Sorry. So there's the bath. Those are the tiles;
they're the spares from all the different bathrooms.
Matt: OK. Simon: So Ponti always made compositions
with them, so I looked at his composition. Matt: There's a theme emerging here, though
isn't there, which is that you've used it and then you've discovered where the high-wear
areas are and done something about it. Simon: Yeah, exactly. I mean the the theme
is I got it right 70 per cent of the time, but the other... My other one
is don't try and do everything. Matt: Yeah.
Simon: Get the basics right and then get the spatial arrangements right, then we're all right, and then add the detail where you need to, rather than finishing it.
Matt: Yeah. Simon: Wherever possible try to extract volume
out of the space and allow the journey to be, kind of, interesting. You know, this is a hanging
office above, that I've hung into this space because there was the opportunity to do it. So you
can't... In a highly complex project, you can't solve it all... We do in a real-world situation of a proper job – we have three-dimensional BIM models, but in a domestic project it is... I
think part of it is allowing it to emerge. Simon: Spaces interlock. You glimpse into a room,
one room looks into another room. I think we, in domestic interiors, we crave dimension because
they're often, you know, not as as generous as you might like them to be. If you build in a city you
are informed by your neighbours, and the building gets contoured and landscaped to fit within the
city. You should celebrate those differences. Simon: And that's the amazing view, which
I say is... There's the new Renzo Piano cube.
Matt: Oh yeah. [Music] Simon: You know the saying about being right
first time? We've done about nine projects here, so it was right ninth time. We got it right the
ninth time. But each project was an accretion. We make this work because of the light
and the location and of course actually it's full of history and character.
Matt: So how do you feel when you walk through that front door at the
end of that day where you've been in the office and you've done your commute?
Simon: I try to dump everything and I have a little joke as I walk through the door –
I go, "Bonjour, Papa!" And then this idea that my wonderful children will run over
and greet me. In fact, no one looks up. Matt: Tumbleweed.
Simon: Yeah, they carry on doing their own thing
and I have to wander around the house to find people to tell I'm home.
Matt: What would the kids say if we asked them what they thought of the flat?
Simon: You know, they would actually say it's kind of cool. They like the screen that slides
across the television that makes people think we're intelligent. They like running around,
they like kicking the football in the hallway, you know. I always say to them, you
know, "You're lucky to have this space and have this light and to have these views."
Matt: Do you think there's a part of them that would prefer to have a more conventional house
arrangement, like maybe some of their friends do? Simon: The reality is I think actually
they've got a conventional house... Matt: Yeah.
Simon: ...Tailored to our to our life, because everyone's got their different conventions...
They complain they haven't got a trampoline, or they haven't got back garden. But in reality the
whole world's their back garden, because they've got all the playgrounds and the parks
around here. But in the end I think that they know they've got quite a special place to live. Matt: The conclusion of my book, 'A Modern Way to Live', is the idea that your house is never
going to be perfect or your flat's never going to be perfect, but you have to invest yourself in
it emotionally and it will kind of give back to you and I think this is actually the kind of... I
think this is the absolute pinnacle of that idea, because you've been here for so long, it's seen
so many different iterations, you've had so many different days here – be it single or in a couple
or as a family – and I think it's really poignant that you've decided that you will see out your
days here as well. I think that's incredibly rare, actually. So given all of that can you put
into words what this place kind of means to you? Simon: It's a personal history of the
family mapped out in space so, you know, you're always going to think about what
child broke their finger in that door there, and another child has broken a window there, and
a row that happened there. But also the fun times. Simon: The long history of family life captured not in a photo album but in the spaces in which you're in. Simon: You can move to another country and
be different and happy and people do that and they make amazing new lives for themselves.
But we're lucky enough to be in one place and to have endlessly kind of reinvented it. But you
never lose the old memories, you're just kind of creating space for new ones. That's all
rather, I think, reassuring in a dynamic world. [Music] Matt: Do you have a favourite space in the flat?
Simon: I think actually I like sitting in that chair, here by this fire with everyone
else around me in a very, very large space, just being peaceful on my own. It should
be my office, but then that does have a slight association with work. Life going
on around... I might hear too many rows and I'll go upstairs. But this is the place
where I think I can be very, very calm. Matt: Thanks so much, Simon. It's
been really, really interesting. Simon: It's been a pleasure having you here.
Matt: No it really has, actually. That was very touching, I thought, at
the end, actually. You know, I mean it. It's kind of... I've
met very few people that have invested themselves in a place like you have.
Simon: Emotionally and financially. Oh dear! [Music]
