Indict Us Too: Daniel Ellsberg & Cryptome's John Young Demand US Drop Charges Against Julian Assange

pressures growing on President Biden to drop charges against WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange who's been jailed in Britain since his arrest in April of 2019. the Biden administration's asking the UK government to extradite him to the U.S where he faces up to 175 years in prison on Espionage and hacking charges if he's found guilty at trial Wikileaks says Assange could be extradited within weeks Assange was first arrested 12 years ago this month on December 7 2010 after a period under house arrest he lived in the Ecuadorian Embassy in London where he had political Asylum from 2012 to 2019. five major news organizations including the New York Times which once partnered with Wikileaks recently called on the Biden Administration to drop charges against Assange writing quote this indictment sets a dangerous precedent and threatens to undermine America's First Amendment and the freedom of the press unquote the letter goes on to say publishing is not a crime the letter was signed by the New York Times the guardian in Britain Le Monde and franster Spiegel in Germany and El Pais in Spain meanwhile Pentagon Papers whistleblower Daniel Ellsberg recently revealed he was in possession of confidential documents containing evidence of U.S war crimes leaked by former military analyst Chelsea Manning and given to him as backup by Wikileaks in a recent message to President Biden and the justice department Ellsberg wrote on Twitter quote I'm as indictable as he is on the exact same charges unquote the founder of the website kryptone.org has also written to the justice department asking to be indicted as well krypton's founder John Young says he should be added as a co-defendant in the prosecution of Assange because he published some of the same leaked government documents at the center of the U.S case against Assange kryptom is a website that began in 1996 and is seen by many as a precursor to WikiLeaks young also helped to Sun start Wikileaks in 2006 when Assange while Assange faces 175 years in U.S prison if he's extradited and convicted the U.S government has never moved to prosecute Young Who says he published the unredacted state department Cable's two days prior to WikiLeaks the U.S government has never even asked young to remove the documents well today in a democracy now exclusive we're joined by both Pentagon Papers whistleblower Dan Ellsberg in Berkeley California and kryptom's John Young here in New York we welcome you both to democracy Now Dan Ellsberg let's begin with you why don't you lay out what you're asking the justice department to do I'm asking them to look closely at the charges they have brought against actually past whistleblowers all past and uh Chelsea Manning and Julie massage potentially against me and John Young because as lawyers said at the time of my first trial back in 1971 Melville nimmer the leading scholar of law of information at that point said that if the Espionage Act were used against someone who had done what I had admittedly done copy and distribute 7 000 pages of top secret documents that law was unconstitutional and that's been true ever since it's unconstitutional use against sources as it has been done several dozen times especially in this Century under Presidents Obama and Trump and now Biden it's also unconstitutional use against journalists that's latently unconstitutional uh the they never tried it even under President Obama when President Biden was vice president they backed off because of the clear unconstitutional totality under the First Amendment which says no law should be passed abridging freedom in the press and finally by raising this constitutional issue that I focus on in particular I'm showing that the law can be used absurdly at least absurdly broadly against someone like me who admittedly retained and failed to deliver these are the words of 18 USC 793 paragraph e and I know that so well as a non-lawyer I'm a defendant because I was the first person charged with that for giving information to the public so I am as guilty in their eyes as Assange how come they haven't come after me for this I did much the same a year ago and raised this challenge if the at last the media who have been derelict in informing themselves on a law which was always potentially there to indict them if they do this and really raise the issue of the necessity to abandon or strongly amend the Espionage Act so as to exclude journalists and exclude whistleblowers who are trying to inform the American public uh they can if they want to continue as they are they can come after me which means anyone who retains a copy of the New York Times which has the word classified in it and who fails to turn over that copy to authorities authorized to receive it mail it into the justice department I guess is asilty as I am under the plain language language of that act a British type official Secrets Act is barred from America after a Revolution by the First Amendment of the United States freedom of the press they don't have that since my prosecution the justice department has been using the Espionage Act intended obviously for entirely different reasons spies who secretly give information to America's enemies especially in Wartime they've been using it as if it were an official Secrets act if they succeed with Julian Assange in extraditing him which Biden could stop tomorrow and should if they succeed in that prosecute him and convict him we will not have the First Amendment it's as if we didn't fight a war of independence actually with respect to anything they regarded as related to National Defense free speech is pretty much out the door and I want to raise the issue that the ACT is even promotes the possibility of Prosecuting people like me who do not even publish I was a backup for Julian Assange didn't have to publish but it can get anybody who handles that material any Secretary of the newspaper paper and any reader of the New York Times John Young Dan Ellsberg is perhaps the most famous whistleblower in the world in releasing the Pentagon papers you are not as well known you founded kryptone.org back in the 90s explain why you are saying if Julian Assange is guilty you should be jailed as well but it's pretty clear looking at the indictment of Julian Assange in the 18 citations that he's charged as far as I could tell all those apply to me in kryptones that um we've been doing this now since 1996 we published classified information secret information from other countries within the United States and so that on unclear why if they're charging him what he's never a charge someone like us by the way we're only one of dozens of people who are putting out this kind of information from it's Federation of American scientists at the National Security archive this has been going on for quite a long while so our sense is that they're trying to use Assange as an example to frighten people that to me is selective Vindication against him and he should not face this alone I think all of those us who are doing a similar kind of work to serve the public rather than the government should do more than just protests I said we've got to raise more hell and take more legal action and publish more um and as Our obligation of citizens that I think think of these agencies are completely out of control and National Security people are completely out of control they're actually trying to use a science as a threat against everyone else not only in the U.S but around the world and it does seems to be anti-democratic and we'd like to help uh combat that by sharing the theme responsibility that Mr Ellsberg and carrying the scientists facing we hope others will step up as well by the way we are not Publishers we're private citizens practicing architects and so we are not doing anything more than exerting our constitution why so the First Amendment so this accusation against Assange would be illegal against an American citizen so we think it's elected prosecution and it should cease um on Monday you filed this motion against the U.S government for violating your constitutional rights to provide unlimited documents to the public now specifically in the case of Julian Assange you say you published at cryptome.org two days before Wikileaks did State Department cables explain you're saying the same thing that Wikileaks revealed and so you are guilty of the same crime Yes except we don't see that as a crime it's just revelation of privilege information uh we don't see it it's coming out we used to hear it as free speech and it's all the citizen has to work with if they're not quarantining press is to speak up take responsibility for their views so that's why we did it is that it was available as a worthwhile for the public to know it's been there now for 12 years hundreds of downloads no complaint from the US government against us um I wanted to ask you John Young the UK Crown prosecution service responded to your request to be included as a co-defendant what did they say they said that the prosecution service is not the one to take this up with they said it's the U.S government which is handling this and they are just being minor party to it so they basically disavowed responsibility for this um vindictive attack on Julian Assange which I thought was interesting so they're actually acted as a hand serpent to the US government is what they're saying Dan Ellsberg um if Julian Assange were extradited he would go to trial here if convicted he faces up to 175 years in prison talk about what you think that trial would look like I presume that his lawyers would begin would raise the Constitutional issue right at the beginning here's something that I think has never gone public but I've been well aware of it the legal aid to my judge facing these same charges 50 years ago told me many years later decades later that his recommendation would was to judge Byrne that he's now a law professor or even retired I believe because his recommendation was that the our defense brief that this prosecution was manifestly unconstitutional and that the Espionage Act should be rescinded as unconstitutional right at that should be followed and it was his understanding that Matthew Byrne my judge agreed with that but it was Burn's first case and to rule a major piece of legislation like the Espionage Act unconstitutional in the first days of his first case was something he didn't want to take on so he took that under advisement to judge on it at the end of the trial and since the trial ended before just before it went to the jury or he made his closing comments because of governmental crimes against me that had just been revealed Crimes by the way that have been now revealed to be committed exactly against Julian Assange these were crimes that led to dismissal of all charges against me as they should have he was a Sarge like me was illegally surveilled in his case even his lawyers and his doctor's discussions or surveilled and efforts discussions were made of kidnapping and killing him or poisoning just as a dozen CIA assets were brought up from Miami on May 3rd 1973 by President Nixon with orders to incapacitate Daniel Ellsworth totally whatever that means but obviously a son should be let out for that the lawyers will undoubtedly move to introduce that evidence as well uh if they're constant if their constitutional argument is still being under advisement that argument has by the way never been addressed by the Supreme Court the classification system rests on no legislation it's an executive branch set of regulations like the non-disclosure agreements in any Corporation or Union or whatever private group no legislation backs it but as a government regulation but the First Amendment does keep the government from enacting acts that would limit speech to that extreme uh except then while all perhaps this is pending maybe they have that under advisement and the acts that should end his uh prosecution of uh listening in in his bathroom from in case he went into there for private discussions with his lawyers and all that went to the CIA that should end the trial if it continues then I presume he will very strong I am certain he will plead not guilty not with respect to the facts which I stipulated entirely I did what I did but to the very point that John Young made a moment ago if I may say correcting you Amy we were not admitting to and Julian would not be admitting to any crime and would not feel is made any crime any more than I did he had violated regulations which put into criminal law constitute a constitutional violation of his rights and of the possibility of democracy so we're repleting not guilty on the grounds that we had violated no constitutional law um Dan I wanted to read from the join open letter from the New York Times the guardian Le Mans of France der schmiegel of Germany and El Pais of Spain who wrote against the prosecution of Julian Assange under the Espionage Act saying it quotes sets a dangerous precedent that threatens to undermine the First Amendment the freedom of the press quote obtaining and disclosing sensitive information when necessary in the public interest is a core part of the daily work of journalists if that work is criminalized our public discourse and our democracies are made significantly weaker it continues holding governments accountable as part of the core mission of a free press and a democracy um can you talk about having the Pentagon papers published by the New York Times decades ago Dan Ellsberg what it means to have the times and these other major papers in the world demanding the Biden Administration drop this case and whether you've heard from the Biden Administration well I'm very happy that the times El Pais Le Bond the guardian and the Israel Place Lavone the guardian times I'm missing somebody there Spiegel to Spiegel have all finally realized the foreign ones that they can be extricated it's just like Julian or Australian who happened to be in England and he's being extradited for this meaning that any one of those editors uh is as indictable as he is or exactly the same charges and uh they're secretaries on the charges that could be brought against me of holding this material not delivering it up not telling the FBI Etc so they finally realized what I've been telling them for 50 years literally since my trial uh without success and that is that the plain language of this act applies to them as well as to their sources and to their readers as a matter of fact or to anybody who handles this information they paid no attention for 50 years to my knowledge none of those papers ever lifted a finger for any of their sources their legal processes or anything they don't seem to regard sources as any responsibility there's even if they've gotten a Pulitzer Prize for those efforts so uh no no effort to the defense no nothing nor have they informed themselves about the law well for decades I they probably saw me as crying wolf that hadn't yet been a case against a journalist although the language was right there to do it if if a president came along and a justice department uh that was prepared to experiment with using it more broadly against a journalist well finally that happened under under Trump and they have suddenly come to realize that he's right against now extradition and a court case which will raise these issues and uh I'm trying to point out to them that it can go even further uh I had all of the material that Julie massage had from Chelsea Manning I did not publish it because I was a backup and the newspapers ended up publishing it except by the way Amy for a particularly atrocious attack a video and report on guarani in in the Middle East war that killed over a hundred women and children and although it was known the uh that it happened the report and the video of that like the collateral murder video of the killing of of civilians in Iraq was held it may not even have been classified as the collateral murder wasn't classified but that doesn't mean it wasn't held closely Chelsea got it only under and then she saw it initially it was very moved by it she says in her wonderful book read me I just read that and describes the impact of seeing that uh Carey says much more than just reading words about it but I had that at the time but I didn't know it it was among a hundred thousand documents and I was merely retaining and uh any discussion of what to do about them would have weighed if it was blocked otherwise I didn't realize I didn't know about the granny videos we've been trying to get now there's a Freedom of Information Act request for 12 years that hasn't gotten anywhere but you and I discussed that when we heard about the attack and that it was had not been released for reasons we didn't know turns out it's still too in ciphered by the way President Biden has no problem Insight disclosing it any day and he should that should have done that Trump the same Obama the same it's been 12 years and we discussed it here on Democracy Now I would be questions all still remain before we end the segment we just have 30 seconds but John Young founder of kryptone.org you still have these documents up um that in on krypton.org that Julian Assange has been charged for at WikiLeaks yes are you going to take them down no as the government asked you too Dr I'm just like to make a kind of equip here that I think that this whole thing is might be called Espionage theater I think the interpreted agencies are looking for a spectacle in the field of cyber security there's something called cyber security Theater which is fake threats I think that there if you read these charges they are repetitious they cited just a few paragraphs of Title 18 and I think if they want this trial for their own purposes those are hearing a few days ago in which all these Intel people were petting each other on the back at assange's expense so I think until the people want this spectacle to to feather their own nest and it's an unfair treatment of the song for this purpose well I want to thank you John Young for joining us founder of cryptome.org and Dan Ellsberg Pentagon Papers whistleblower if you could stay with us want to ask you a question uh about the growing threat of nuclear war stay with us

Channel: Democracy Now!

Views: 118,602

Keywords: Democracy Now, Amy Goodman, News, Politics, democracynow, Independent Media, Breaking News, World News

Id: Wln56odE7oo

Length: 22min 37sec (1357 seconds)

Published: Wed Dec 14 2022