>>> IN CASE YOU MISSED IT, THIS IS HOW MOST OF THE DAY WAS SPENT IN THE HOUSE EDUCATION COMMITTEE HEARING ON ANTI- SEMITISM AT COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY. >> I HAVE YOUR ANSWER. LET ME, LET ME MOVE ON HERE. >> REPUBLICANS IN CONGRESS BROUGHT COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY PRESIDENT MINOUCHE SHAFIK DOWN TO WASHINGTON, LESS TO HEAR HER ANSWERS AND MORE TO POINTEDLY SAY QUESTIONS AT HER. NOW, IF THE REPUBLICANS IN THE COMMITTEE WERE ACTUALLY LISTENING, PRESIDENT SHAFIK WAS QUITE CLEAR. HERE WAS A RESPONSE TO A QUESTION ABOUT WHETHER ANTI- SEMITIC SPEECH IS TOLERATED AT COLUMBIA. >> IT'S ABHORRENT, AND HAS HAS NO PLACE IN OUR COMMUNITY. I THINK ONE OF THE ISSUES THAT WE ARE ACTIVELY DEBATING NOW, AND WHICH DAVID SHOWS HER, I HOPE, IS PART OF THE ANTI- SEMITISM TASK FORCE, WILL HELP US FIND SOLUTIONS, AS YOU'VE ASKED FOR, CONGRESSWOMAN, IS TO ACTUALLY CLARIFY WHERE LANGUAGE CROSSES THE LINE FROM PROTECTED SPEECH TO DISCRIMINATORY OR HARASSING SPEECH. >> PRESIDENT SHAFIK WAS VERY PRECISE THERE. THE DEBATE THAT SHOULD BE HAPPENING ON COLLEGE CAMPUSES RIGHT NOW IS THE ONE ABOUT WHERE THE LINE IS BETWEEN FIRST AMENDMENT SPEECH AND DISCRIMINATORY SPEECH. THAT IS A VERY WORTHWHILE CONVERSATION. BUT THAT IS NOT THE CONVERSATION WE SAW IN THE HOUSE TODAY. INSTEAD, WE SAUCED OFF LIKE THIS. >> HOW MANY, COULD YOU RATTLE OFF, LIKE, 10 REPUBLICAN FACULTY OUT OF YOUR 4000 OFF THE TOP OF YOUR HEAD? >> YEAH, I COULD, ACTUALLY, BUT WE HAVE TWO OF OUR FELLOWS FROM OUR INSTITUTE FOR GLOBAL POLITICS WHO ARE FORMER TRUMP ADMINISTRATION OFFICIALS -- BUT LET ME ASK ANOTHER QUESTION. >> WHAT IS THE NUMBER OF REPUBLICANS ON THE FACULTY AT COLUMBIA HAVE TO DO WITH ANTI- SEMITISM? WE'RE GOING TO GET TO THAT. THE CONGRESSMAN ASKING THE QUESTION THERE CLEARLY DID NOT LIKE THAT PRESIDENT SHAFIK COULD ANSWER HIS QUESTION. IT DIDN'T FIT THE NARRATIVE THAT HE WAS TRYING TO ESTABLISH. A NARRATIVE OF THE REPUBLICANS TRIED TO CEMENT WITH QUESTIONS LIKE THESE. >> CAN YOU EXPLAIN WHY THE WORTH -- WORD FOLKS IS SPELLED FOLX THROUGHOUT THIS GUIDEBOOK AND IN OTHER PLACES AT THE SCHOOL SOCIAL WORK? >> THIS IS HOW COLONIAL UNIVERSITY SPOKE THE WORD FOLKS? >> NO. >> WHAT IS A STUDENT GROUP SPELLING THE WORD FOLKS WITHIN X TO BE GENDER INCLUSIVE, WHAT DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH ANTI- SEMITISM? WELL, BOTH THAT QUESTION, AND THE ONE ASKING PRESIDENT SHAFIK HOW MANY REPUBLICANS ARE ON THE COLUMBIA FACULTY, BOTH OF THOSE QUESTIONS HAVE A LOT TO DO WITH THE CONVERSATION REPUBLICANS WERE ACTUALLY TRYING TO HAVE IN THE HOUSE TODAY. A WEEK AGO, A GROUP OF JEWISH FACULTY MEMBERS AT COLUMBIA PUBLISHED THIS OPEN LETTER TO PRESIDENT SHAFIK , IMPLORING HER NOT TO FALL FOR THE EXACT REPUBLICAN CAMPAIGN WE SAW IN THAT COMMITTEE HEARING ROOM TODAY. RATHER THAN BEING CONCERNED WITH THE SAFETY AND WELL-BEING OF JEWISH STUDENTS ON CAMPUSES, THE COMMITTEE IS LEVERAGING ANTI-SEMITISM IN A WIDER EFFORT >>> IN DECEMBER, REPUBLICANS ON THE HOUSE EDUCATION COMMITTEE QUESTIONED THE PRESIDENT OF HARVARD, M.I.T., AND THE UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA ABOUT ANTI-SEMITISM. DAYS LATER, THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA, ELIZABETH MAGILL, RESIGNED. AND THEN, AFTER ENDURING A MONTH OF ADDITIONAL PERSONAL AND PROFESSIONAL ATTACKS, THE PRESIDENT OF HARVARD, CLAUDINE GAY, ALSO RESIGNED. AND NOW, TODAY, IT WAS THE PRESIDENT OF COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY, MINOUCHE SHAFIK, WHO REPUBLICANS HAD IN THE HOT SEAT. JOINING ME NOW TO HELP UNPACK WHAT IS ACTUALLY HAPPENING ON COLUMBIA'S CAMPUS, AND WHAT THESE HEARINGS ARE REALLY ABOUT , IS JELANI COBB, DEAN OF THE COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF JOURNALISM. DEAN COBB, IT IS GREAT TO SEE YOU. I KNOW IT HAS BEEN A BUSY TIME ON CAMPUS. CAN YOU GIVE ME A SENSE OF, OF WHAT IS HAPPENING ON, ON YOUR CAMPUS? THERE WAS A HEARING TODAY WHERE I FEEL LIKE WE DIDN'T ACTUALLY REALLY GET AN ACCURATE PICTURE OF HOW DEEP THE BATTLE LINES RUN AND WHAT THE FUNDAMENTAL ARGUMENTS ARE ABOUT. >> WELL, IT'S CONTESTED, YOU KNOW? THERE ARE, YOU KNOW, DEBATES, THERE ARE HEATED DEBATES HAPPENING. THERE ARE PROTESTS AND DEMONSTRATIONS AND COUNTER PROTESTS AND COUNTER DEMONSTRATIONS. AND, YOU KNOW, JUST AS THIS HAS BECOME, YOU KNOW, A HUGELY POLARIZING ISSUE IN LOTS OF DIFFERENT AVENUES OF AMERICAN LIFE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE SEEING THAT PLAY OUT ON THE UNIVERSITY CAMPUS, WHERE PEOPLE ARE SUPPOSED TO ENGAGE WITH IDEAS, ARE SUPPOSED TO DEBATE, THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO THINK ABOUT THESE THINGS CRITICALLY, AND SO ON. SO WE ARE SEEING A LOT OF THAT HAPPENING. AND IN ADDITION, ON THE DAY TODAY, PEOPLE ARE GOING TO CLASS, LEARNING, YOU KNOW, READING, PREPARING TO GRADUATE, AND ALL THE OTHER THINGS THAT HAPPEN IN A NORMAL ACADEMIC YEAR. >> IS THERE A CONVERSATION ABOUT, I MEAN, PRESIDENT SHAFIK GOT AT THIS IN THE HEARING TODAY, THAT THE CONVERSATION NEEDS TO BE ABOUT WHAT IS FREE SPEECH AND WAS DISCRIMINATORY SPEECH. IS THAT A DEBATE THAT IS HAPPENING TO ANY AND AT THIS POINT? AT THE COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY CAMPUS? >> SO THE IRONY OF THIS, AND THIS IS THE DEBATE THAT WE'VE HAD SHE REALLY, YOU KNOW, LONG BEFORE THIS CONFLICT BEGAN. THIS WAS A DEBATE, A ROBUST ISSUE THAT WE SHOULD BE DEBATING ON COLLEGE CAMPUSES. NOW, OF COURSE, THE IRONY OF THIS IS THAT, YOU KNOW, THE PRESIDENT WAS BEING QUESTIONED BY CONGRESS, WHICH ACTUALLY HAS PURVIEW OVER THIS, THAT MAKES LEGISLATION, LAWS, AND, YOU KNOW, THE SUPREME COURT, WHICH DETERMINES, YOU KNOW, BY PRECEDENCE WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE AND WHAT'S NOT ACCEPTABLE. AND SO, REALLY, UNIVERSITIES ARE BEING BEATEN UP, YOU KNOW, IN COLUMBIA IN PARTICULAR BEING BEATEN UP OVER THINGS THAT WE HAVE REALLY NO CONTROL OVER. WE'RE FOLLOWING THE GUIDANCE OF THE PEOPLE WHO ARE ACTUALLY DOING THE QUESTIONING THERE. >> WELL, IT SEEMS LIKE, TO THAT END, WHAT WAS HAPPENING IN CONGRESS TODAY WASN'T REALLY ABOUT COLUMBIA , IT WASN'T NECESSARILY ABOUT ANTI- SEMITISM. IT SEEMED LIKE IT WAS VERY CLEARLY AN OPPORTUNITY FOR REPUBLICANS TO GO AFTER WHAT THEY PERCEIVE TO BE A GROUP OF LIBERAL ELITES, AND THE WOKEISM THAT HAS PENETRATED AMERICA'S COLLEGE CAMPUS SYSTEM. DID YOU THINK THAT THEY WERE SUCCESSFUL IN MALIGNING COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY TODAY? >> I MEAN, THEY SET ALL KIND OF THINGS ABOUT COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY, AND THAT'S NOT THE INSTITUTION THAT I THINK, YOU KNOW, MOST OF US EXPERIENCE. EVEN THOUGH, YOU KNOW, THERE HAVE BEEN INCIDENTS OF ANTI- SEMITISM, NO QUESTION, AND THOSE INCIDENTS HAVE BEEN ANNOUNCED, YOU KNOW, BROADLY BY THAT COMMUNITY. BUT WHAT WE'VE SEEN IN PLACE OF THIS HAS BEEN A KIND OF DISINGENUOUS CARICATURE OF WHAT THE UNIVERSITY IS, WHAT THE UNIVERSITY STANDS FOR, WHO OUR STUDENTS ARE, WHO OUR FACULTY ARE, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S GOING ON. AND THAT'S GOING TO, YOU KNOW, NOT SIMPLY, YOU KNOW, TODAY, THAT'S BEEN GOING ON FOR WEEKS BEFORE THIS. AND SO, YOU KNOW, LISTENING TO THAT HEARING, YOU WOULD NOT THINK THAT THERE WAS ANYTHING REDEEMABLE, YOU KNOW, HAPPENING AT COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY. >> DO YOU, DO YOU THINK, I MEAN, IT SEEMS THAT THE WAR IN GAZA, AND THE ABSOLUTE SCHISM THAT HAS BEEN CREATED IN ITS AFTERMATH, AND SOME WOULD SAY PREDATING THE WAR IN GAZA, HAS BEEN A POLITICAL OPPORTUNITY FOR REPUBLICANS AND CONSERVATIVES IN PARTICULAR TO KIND OF GET THE CULTURE OF WOKEISM AND THE CULTURE OF LIBERAL ELITES, NOT TO BE REPETITIVE, BUT I DO WONDER HOW EFFECTIVE THEY HAVE BEEN IN TURNING SOME PART OF THE COUNTRY AGAINST WHAT IS PERCEIVED AS, YOU KNOW, HIGHER INSTITUTIONS. >> SURE, BUT I THINK THAT ONE OF THE, LIKE, MORE PERNICIOUS THINGS, AND ONE OF THE MORE DISINGENUOUS THINGS HERE IS THE PRESENTATION OF THIS AS IF THIS WERE A KIND OF MATTER OF PRINCIPLE. WHAT THIS IS REALLY ABOUT IS THE PERCEPTION THAT UNIVERSITIES, ESPECIALLY ELITE INSTITUTIONS, ARE TOO LIBERAL. SO THIS IS, YOU KNOW, PART OF, IS ON PAR WITH THE ATTACKS ON DEI. IT'S ON PAR WITH THE ATTACKS ON AFFIRMATIVE ACTION. IT'S, YOU KNOW, KIND OF FOLLOWING THE PLAYBOOK OF WHAT WE'VE SEEN HAPPEN AT NEW COLLEGE IN FLORIDA, FOR INSTANCE. SO THE IDEA IS SUPPOSED TO BE THAT WE ARE, THAT LAYING THE GROUND FOR THESE INSTITUTIONS TO BE SOMETHING OTHER THAN WHAT THEY ARE PERCEIVED TO BE. NOW, THESE ARE ALSO HETEROGENEOUS INSTITUTIONS. I TEACH OPINION WRITING. I HAVE STUDENTS WHOSE VIEWS ARE ALL ACROSS THE SPECTRUM. AS YOU WILL FIND AT THIS UNIVERSITY, AT THE INSTITUTION. >> REPUBLICANS ATTEND COLUMBIA TOO, IN OTHER WORDS. >> SHOCKINGLY ENOUGH, THEY DO, YEAH. AND I'VE ACTUALLY TAUGHT A FEW, AMAZINGLY. BUT, BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT, YOU KNOW, NONE OF THESE ISSUES OF SUBSTANCE WERE ON DISPLAY THERE. THIS WAS A KIND OF THEATER, IN ORDER TO CARICATURE THE UNIVERSITY, TO FURTHER AN AGENDA OF KIND OF MAKING IT MORE DIFFICULT FOR OUR INSTITUTIONS TO FUNCTION THE WAY THAT THEY HAVE GREAT >> YEAH. I WILL SAY, IF WE HAVE TIME, I WOULD LOVE TO PLAY AN EXCHANGE BETWEEN PRESIDENT SHAFIK AND REPRESENTATIVE RICK ALLEN, WHO WAS ASKING IF YOU WANTED COLUMBIA TO BE CURSED BY GOD. CAN WE PLAY THAT? >> ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH GENESIS 12:3? IF YOU BLESS ISRAEL, I WILL BLESS YOU. IF YOU CURSE ISRAEL, I WILL CURSE YOU. DO YOU CONSIDER THAT A SERIOUS ISSUE? I MEAN, DO YOU WANT COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY TO BE CURSED BY GOD? OF THE BIBLE? >> DEFINITELY NOT. >> OKAY. WELL, THAT'S GOOD. >> IT'S, IT'S LIKE A VERY CURIOUS LOGIC TO SOMEHOW BRING IN WHITE CHRISTIAN NATIONALISM IN A CONVERSATION THAT'S SUPPOSED TO BE AND THAT IS THE FIGHT. >> I ALSO THOUGHT IT WAS, THE PERSON WHO IS OF EGYPTIAN ORIGIN, I THINK IT WAS A DIG IN THAT DIRECTION, SO IT WAS THINLY VEILED, THE MOST PERNICIOUS PARTS OF WHAT WE'VE SEEN, PARTICULARLY GIVEN THE PROLIFERATION OF ANTI-SEMITISM THAT WE'VE SEEN IN THE RIGHT WING OF THAT PARTY ITSELF, AND SO, -- >> SO MAYBE THE MIRROR SHOULD BE TURNED UPON THE PARTY AND THE LINE OF QUESTIONING. I'VE GOT TO ASK YOU, YOU KNOW, WE TALK ABOUT THIS AS A KIND OF AN EXERCISE IN POLITICS BUT IT'S HAD REAL CONSEQUENCES, THE NUMBER OF UNIVERSITY HEADS WHO HAVE HAD TO STEP DOWN, THAT HAVE, YOU KNOW, HAVE HAD TO LEAVE THEIR POSTS OR BEEN OTHERWISE YOU KNOW, SERIOUSLY PROFESSIONALLY WOUNDED IN THE COURSE OF THIS, DOES THIS MAKE YOU WORRY, DO YOU THINK WE ARE TURNING A CORNER WHEN THE GOALS OF AT LEAST ONE SIDE OF THIS HAS REVEALED TO BE NOT PURE. >> I THINK THE REAL CONCERN IS THAT WE ARE IN A MOMENT OF DEMOCRATIC CRISIS, SO THIS GOES BACK TO THE 1950s WHEN WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE COLD WAR. HOW DO YOU HANDLE CHALLENGES TO DEMOCRACY, THE WAY YOU HANDLE CHANGES -- CHALLENGES TO YOUR DEMOCRACY IS BEING MORE DEMOCRATIC. YOU HAVE TO DOUBLE AND TRIPLE DOWN ON
