"In search of the Man" - How I think Islam possibly began (ELF-FOCL)

[Music] well dr. J Smith back with you again we've um this has been a fascinating pandemic locked down where we're all at home and most of us are looking for things to engage with and I have been getting an awful lot of requests from you and from those who are on my email to engage with this area of the historical critique of Islam concerning the beginning of how Islam all began remember we have always had this problem with Islam with a man named Mohammed and also with the city of Mecca with the religion itself as far as the people called Muslims and of course with the Quran and we've always wondered where I is it that everything we see about these five areas are all referred to in the 8th and 9th and 10th century but not in the 7th century where they existed and this has always been a perennial problem for those of us who try are trying to find out how Islam really began we don't trust those 9th and 10th century biographies the set up or that sayings the hadith or the tuffsy of the commentaries or the histories that happening we've and we've always asked us as historians you always go back to that which is the closest to the event hopefully to the originals or to actually the eyewitness account of who this man Muhammad was what he did what he said and where he went but we can't and that has been a real problem because none of that exists none of this material on Mahmud or on Mecca or on the Quran all of this either comes from the 8th or the 9th or even the 10th century and so over a month ago back on April the 19th I decided to just zero in on the 7th century zero in on the very beginning looking at that century and looking only at artifacts from that century and I've been putting up trying to put up video after video because you've been requesting if most of you are in lockdown you have the time on your hands to look at these videos and I've just been interested in what we can discern from that century not from the 8th or 9th or 10th I want only the seventh century that's the century that Muhammad was living that's when he died that's when the Quran was put together that's when he supposedly lived in Mecca that's when he claimed to be according to Islamic traditions that he was a Muslim and that's when Islam really birthed itself took it took on the the image of Islam that we see today that's what the Islamic traditions have always been telling us so I'm back there looking and delving into the Astana me these letters from Muhammad supposedly looking at the concert constitution of Medina and when I've been looking at that I've also tried to ask what what do we know about Muhammad himself and that's why I've brought Robert Spencer on board a few days ago to have this interview that has gone really viral and it's been terrific than people who have responded and there are many questions nonetheless who is this Muhammad what is this Islam who are these Muslims where is this mecca and where is this gone that Muslims keep telling us about from that century from the seventh century well about a year ago I was at a large conference in Poland it's called the European Leadership Forum and back there in 2019 right a year ago almost still today they asked me to do a workshop on this very question and I did a two and a half hour workshop which they put up on YouTube they just put it up two months ago it's been up on YouTube for only too much on their f o CL focal site and already a hundred and fifteen thousand people have watched that workshop now that al F forum is now starting today today the 22nd of May a year later but it's not in Poland today it's actually online because everybody who this would be going to that conference has yeah has had to stay home and all the various countries all over Europe also here in United States and in Asia and Africa and other places so there there is nobody able to go to Poland right now so they're doing it online and I asked a request and I asked them if I could take that workshop that I did a year ago which is all about what we're talking about right now and if whether I could put it up onto my site if I could look at that workshop in that people see it because it would not only fit in with the rubric of what Elif is doing right now in this next week it also comes from a LF it's already up on their side 150,000 people have already watched it I wanted this my people see where I was a year ago now this is 2019 remember in 2020 now were in May 2000 and 20 year later and this is the problem in some ways with historical criticism historical criticism keeps changing because new material is being found I didn't know a year ago about the coins I wasn't aware about these letters I did what hadn't really looked at the inscriptions this is all new material that we've come to like that has come to light in just the last year and what I say today even in are I am saying today in May or June or July in 2020 I will have to move on and continue to eggs to embellish that because of new material that will yet come to light so what I want to do is I want to share this workshop that I did a year ago I want to share it with you now those of you who are watching my channel it's a long workshop it is two and a half hours it is owned by e.l.f European Leadership Forum it is up on their focal YouTube site there are two other workshops that I did there one on the 10th must often ask questions and also a the 20 large Co fallacies and those are also up on the website I think are about 24,000 people have watched one of them another 12,000 have watched the other so they're becoming very popular and they're just moving right up the scale proving that there is a real desire to understand Islam historically there is a real desire to in to engage with Islam publicly and because of the fact that this is such a popular theme it makes sense therefore to also put this in many different platforms so I will be bringing those videos of those workshops I will be putting all up on founder films at a later date this one however deals with exactly the topic we're dealing with it deals exactly with the 7th century it asks the question how then did Islam begin or as I titled it where is the map in search of the map in search of the man you know where is Waldo I'm asking where is Mohammed and so this workshop tried to look at all that we are now coming to all that has been given us all the different artifacts and the different letters that the buildings the manuscripts of the Quran looking at what we now know that was a year ago what we know then concerning what we think or how we think Islam began not what the traditions are telling us not with the sitter or the tough see it or the thought leak or the hadith are telling us what actually did happen from these sources of that century that's the historical work that everybody should do in what we own and want to continue to do here at founder films so sit back take out your notes and try to engage with the material that I'm introducing I do go into an introduction of why I'm asking these questions who I am where I come from and also the need for apologetics and polemic so I do a kind of an introduction before I get into the real meat of this question how then did Islam really begin what do we know about the emergence of Islam okay I'm gonna stop there and let you get right into it this is Jay here on the 22nd of May 2020 so you can see the date and let's see what we know today and what we're gonna know in the future this is Jay over and out you whenever these videos get put up on your left ik on their focal site the Muslims grab them and they pulled them down and then they unpack everything I've said and then they take me on and it's great fun so I know this is all gonna be you Muslims you're gonna take all of this stuff and you're gonna pull it down and this is one way to engage in some ways it's a good way also to be peer reviewed this is a way of being peer reviewed I know that hundreds of Muslims are gonna see what I'm gonna say today and they're gonna put up videos I'm gonna have to then respond to them and that's how we learn and that's how we actually increase and so it's it's great fun this kind of interaction a month let me give you our background as to why and who I am so you understand why I'm saying what I'm saying because it may disturb you especially being European this kind of talk I grew up in India was born in India my parents are missionaries my grandparents were missionaries so I'm third generation Mich kid from India my parents my grandparents went to India in 1913 my parents graves are there my grandfather's grave is there they never left India they loved it so much and dedicated their whole life and to understand why Islam all of North India is mostly Muslim so having grown up in northern India and having had Muslim roommates I've had I've grown up with Muslims in my school I did all my first 12 years in India and then I left India and when I remember when I left I I was so glad to leave India and so glad to leave all the Muslims because they were very aggressive they were any discussion we had it was always the Muslims against me we and so I've grown up my whole life debating that's why I have no fear of Muslims I love them they're the most engaging people but I didn't at that time in 1971 and I was so glad to finally leave and go to a place called America now my accent is American right but this I didn't get in America I got this in India at a missionary school called we're moving into the American accent I have to use that in the West and it's that background that prepared me for what I'm doing now I didn't plan to go back to the Muslim world I married a a mish kid like myself from Kenya Judy here's her picture here my wife and she grew up in Kenya I grew up in India we met in America in undergraduate studies but we after we got married where I was doing postgraduate studies at that time and I went to a seminar a one-day seminar some like what we're doing today on Islam and we were told back this is 1981 now so we were told back in 1981 that there were 800 million Muslims huge number how do you compute a number like that too big but then we were told that there were only 1,500 missionaries working amongst them now that number I could I could compute that was a small number and we were told that 1500 only made up 2% of all missionaries so worldwide we were sending only 2% to the fastest-growing religion on earth and those two numbers were like a slap in the face and I turned to my wife and I said what in the world are we doing wrong why is it were only sending 2% to the one religion that's attacking us at our foundation the one religion that is growing faster than any other the one religion that is taking over the world now that back then in 1981 it was still pretty much in the Muslim world there weren't that many Muslims in the West yet and so we went to our mission board and we said listen send us to the Muslim world and they had no work with Muslims which was symptomatic of the very problem so I we were seconded that means we were lent out to SI em which used to be called Sudan interior missions now they call it Society of International Ministries and they sent us to Senegal West Africa by this time I had already I had a master's degree in Islamics from fuller seminary under dr. Dudley Woodbury so I thought I knew everything I need to know about Islam having grown up with it having had in a master's degree in it and I went to Senegal and the reason why they sent us to Senegal is cuz no one else wanted to go there because you have to learn two languages to go to Senegal you have to learn French and then you have to learn wool off' so we weren't to work we went to work amongst the wool of and I immediately realize that my training did not prepare me for this kind of Islam because this was a very much of a Sufi Islam it's the contraries the Brotherhood's the kata linea that did janilla the more ease especially the more ease which was an indigenous organ of Muslims and every one of these Brotherhood's had Pietists or Mara booze Maru booze would be like chefs they would be authorities but they became ace mediators between God and man they took on the role of mediation now that I had never really studied I didn't that doesn't exist in Orthodox Islam at all in fact it's in a themá-- in Orthodox Islam and most of these conferees these digit ears the Scot that aniyah's had come out of Iraq and had filtered down through West Africa and remember in West Africa we've had Islam there since the 11th century so it's a very old form of Islam while we were there and we he'd get dedicated to get five years there and we started a church in Wolfe there in our front room and we were the first wool of church in Senegal it is now daughter two or three other churches but after five years we got a mess I a warning or not a warning but a call from our missions office saying there's a real problem in London now I looked on the map and London did not look like it was in the 10/40 window in the that window that you think of the majority of Muslim populations the tenth and 40th parallel London was outside of that window and I couldn't figure out why there were a this large group of what they call radical Muslims and they didn't know how to deal with them and they didn't know no one know that none of the missionaries had ever come across this kind of Islam well I suddenly perked up and said hold on him and radical Islam those are my people they're the ones I love they're the ones I work with that's what I grown up with do you understand what I mean by radical Islam well what's the word radical mean give me a definition of radical a radical number is what route there you go so let's use that definition radical Islam would be the root of Islam to be a radical Islam means to go back to the root so what would be the root of Islam there you go and the model for this book okay so the book in the map the book in the man would be the root of Islam and this is a this was created by a man named even Tamiya in the 1300s and he was the one that actually defined real Islam he said to be a good Muslim you must read the Quran and you must follow Muhammad the book in the man the book in the man 1300 remember in the 1500s two hundred years later a man in Germany said much the same thing about Christianity his name was Martin Luther nailed up that was 95 thesis on the Wittenberg door remember that what did he say to be a good Christian we must Sola scriptura we must only come back to scripture who which is modeled on Jesus Christ and we call that our Reformation and I've heard so many people say when is Islam going to be reformed and I said folks it got reformed before we got reformed they beat us by 200 years even tamiya is the foundation for Islam worldwide all all year radical Muslims go back and they coat him the reason why is because there were two men in the 1700s one named eben alwa Abdullah Ababwa was living in Medina and he was studying in Medina 1700 so you're talking about well 400 years later with him was another man named WA EULA who had come from beehad in India eastern India or my grandparents worked now they weren't living in 1700 obviously but back in 1700 these two men were studying even tamiya´s material so they were inculcating this whole paradigm of going back to a book modeled by a man to be a good Muslim that's the definition al-wahhab stayed there in he remained there in Arabia he then amalgamated himself with a family called the eben Saud family the eben son family then eradicated all their enemies and took over the entire peninsula but they were nothing more than a political control they needed some little they needed a religious a real authenticity and that's why then they brought in Allah because he became he gave him the legitimacy of theology and that's where Wahhabism started so what a business based on even love that's where the name comes from 1700 look at your dates that's 400 years ago meanwhile ye hoola went back to India and he back in India he's the one that started the madrasas all over East India when the British came to India his disciples were so strong that the British had to contend with them and what the British did is they just moved them right across or from North India over into the mountain synthesis so they fled up into the mountains the Hindu Kush in the Himalayas where they still are today that's why places like was it Astana where the Pashtuns are all this North frontiers Northwest Frontier that was all became strongly radicalized Muslim all based on why he hulis teaching that was based on eben tamiya´s teaching so this has been around for a good seven hundred years this is not new now let's jump to the 20th century in the 20th century then you had there in India you have two names that you need to know of one is not duty who lived in northern India in fact he lived very close to where I grew up before me and in the 1920s and the 19 to the 1940s he was in the in the city of Dale bond which is between Delhi and world I lived up in the masucci up in the mountains I remember when whenever I'd go back to visit my parents from boarding school the train would stop there and Dale bond and there'd be this big huge madrasas on either side of the railway tracks now being a young kid I didn't really see the significance of these huge madrasahs I've now learned about more about them now that I've left but it was fascinating because he then in 1947 when India got its independence he then took a move from India and moved over to Pakistan and started the jamaat-e-islami and the jamaat-e-islami then took over many of those madrassas in the north western frontier and they created huge schools of training all training and teaching even tamiya´s material go back to the cron modeled by the Prophet Muhammad their students were tally base tally by means student in Arabic and in Urdu the Talib a became the Taliban the Taliban then moved into Afghanistan because that's all pushed in they're all the same tribe moved into Pakistan and throughout the Russians that's probably where you all came into the picture that's where many of you then worker we're living and you know what happened once they threw out the Russians meanwhile in Delhi well even before that in 1920s a man named Muhammad Ilyas Muhammad Ilyas was another very radical Muslim who had been brought up on even time years material he had been heard about all that why he's gone but we're now in 1920 she started another group called the topically Jamaat in Delhi capital of India and remember at that time Pakistan India and Bangladesh were all one country created by the British so that was a huge block of Muslims right there in one country in 1947 then it became three countries West Pakistan India and East Pakistan or the other way around for you West Pakistan India and East Pakistan so here you have the Tablighi Jamaat growing in India you have the jamaat-e-islami growing there in Pakistan that's what's happening Indian subcontinent now this group that the book is about has grown and grown and grown since 1920s in 1924 so almost 100 years it now is in a hundred and twenty countries and it has a membership of 80 million then repeat that number 80 million that's a big number isn't it that's the population of Britain right there those are the Muslims I had to content I have been having to contend with in Britain most of the radical Muslims I'm engaging with or the EE Jamaat it was the typically Jamaat that came and blew themselves up and killed 52 people in July 7th 2005 in London do you all remember that that is a typically Jamaat most of the attacks that we've been getting in London and Manchester we're just celebrating yesterday or today the bombing of Manchester that was yesterday I think that was at the big of Jamaat so almost all the attacks that we're getting in Britain are infused by the teachings of the typically Jamaat these are the groups that you none of you have heard about and you've never will hear about because you're not engaged in that level most of you have only think about Islam as being Arab you're not thinking about the Indian subcontinent the Indian subcontinent I are much greater much bigger than anything in the Arab world and it's the Indian subcontinent where we're getting all of our tax against Christianity there is not one well-known Muslim Arab who is attacking Christianity nimi one let me give the names of all those who are attacking Christianity Ahmed Deedat is he Arab no he lived in Durban in South Africa but he's from India zakir naik go up on YouTube put his name there thousands of videos by him he's from Bombay probably the most prolific today Shabbir Ali No lives in Toronto but he is from India Hutton and Rossi from Pakistan monster Rothman from Bangladesh most all of the best known debaters today polemicists who are attacking Christianity are from the Indian subcontinent and there's a reason why they're from the Indian subcontinent two reasons really one is because they were colonized by Britain and being colonized by Britain they have grown up with the English educational system from Middle School on up everything is in English in India Pakistan and Bangladesh unlike the rest of the Muslim world where everything is either in Arabic or whatever the local languages Indonesian are all the rest but secondly because British British Britain is a Christian power they have already engendered and engrained himself on how to attack Christianity and they solved quickly much quicker than the Arabs world that Christianity was Islam's greatest threat and it stands to reason where their greatest threat because we stand against everything they believe we stand if you look and see the two religions when you look at them and you do a comparison between Islam and Christianity Christianity on every in every major case stands against Islam so can you see then why in the Indian subcontinent this has gone much quicker much faster and the other reason is just look at the numbers just look at the numbers of Muslims in Pakistan India and Bangladesh if you just add up their Muslim not Hindu not anything else just Muslim population you have over 650 million Muslims look at the numbers there's nothing that is as big as that nowhere else in the world is as bigger than Indonesia only has 200 million the whole Arab speaking world the entire Arab speaking world is only 270 million 650 million just in one block and yet we're not doing anything hardly anything no one wants to go to the Indian subcontinent so that's why I've dedicated and done most of my work again on the in the Indian subcontinent that's why I have to work in this area because when you work with India's and Pakistan Bangladesh you have to engage in the historical critique the reason why is because they're using it no Arab I've never met an Arab that attacks me historically or that even defends Islam historical they don't even understand that there's a problem there and the reason why it's not that they're not intelligent enough it's because there's Christianity is so small and so weak it doesn't even appear on the radar it's not a threat to them there's no threat whenever I'm at speakers corner for 25 years I would go every Sunday down to speaker's corner and I'll be there this next Sunday a few days and we would engage with whoever's in front of us and almost invariably if I'm talking to an Arab I'm just gonna go in a circle with them they won't in they've never heard of the Trinity they won't even know about the Christology of Jesus about authority of Scripture they don't even know that that's the problem none of these things you mean they've never heard this they have no idea that Jesus died on the cross or essa died on the cross these are things that they don't think about they want to talk about George Bush they want to talk about trunk they want to talk about politics they want to talk about Israel they want to talk about anything but not theology because they don't believe that there's a problem with theology they don't even know that we have a difference in theology so I don't engage at that level with them well that's not quite true I make sure we engage the elantra figures I'm not there to talk politics I don't care Dilys what about politics that's not true I do but not when I'm engaging with Muslims if I have a Turk standing in front of me I have to tell them what they believe before I can even take them on because they have no idea what they're to believe if I have a North African either somebody from Algeria or and we get quite a few from Morocco they come through I have to quickly switch to French and then we go at it but they all want to talk about the French colonial system they all want to talk about how terrible the colonial system is they don't want to talk theology because they don't think theology is important but when I get somebody from Indian subcontinent anybody from Pakistan India or Bangladesh I have to take a deep breath because I know I'm in for a real battle and they will have Bibles in their hands they never have a Quran they never bring a crown they only have Bibles and they have little post-it notes all the way through with seeming errors or historical mechanisms or scientific problems god bless them aren't they great times so excited when I see a Muslim with a Bible in their hands because then I know I'm home now I know that we're gonna have a great discussion and we usually go out to tea afterwards and usually they pay for it and this is the lovely thing about Muslims they love especially from what the Indians have gotten they love to talk theology and they love to talk about two things what are the two things they like to talk about what would you guess the book in the man they always want to take on this book and they want to take on the man behind this book Jesus Christ to me I those are the two things I want to talk about and I don't even have to dangle a carrot in front of their eyes all I have to tell them as to things and I wish whenever we get into especially facts I haven't seen them before they're the first time I've ever seen them I always say I believe Jesus is God I believe the Bible is the Word of God you have an opinion and you might get six hours opinion just on those two subjects especially here in the West especially here in Europe because they already have been trained up on how to confront those two areas and that's why I encourage you get to know some Muslims wherever you are find out where they are and just talk about Jesus and the Bible then you're gonna have to talk about the Quran and Muhammad at some point you're gonna that's gonna come into your conversation because they will make claim after claim after claim and this is now where we're gonna get in today's today's talk so that's the introduction which took me what 15 minutes sorry about that to get into how many have heard seen this lecture before that I've done this lecture once before back in 2016 none of you one too well you've seen everything I've done so you don't count in fact I might have you come up here and do some of this this is my other expert over here so he's the other one died other Islamists in the room what we're gonna do then I'm I wasn't gonna go through all introduction but since none of you have seen this or don't where I'm gonna go we're gonna do the whole introduction and go and walk you through it so that you know where we're going now we are gonna go till 10:30 then we're gonna have a half an hour break for coffee and try to peel yourself off the floor and I'm gonna come back at eleven o'clock and go till 12:15 am I correct 12:15 under orders of my friend from Scottsdale because she wants to then give you I guess a handout for after that and we do need to get out of here and get our luggage so we don't get stranded here from getting our planes so let's go ahead and have any time if you have any questions just raise your hand because we have lots of time to get through this we're in no hurry and I really do want to engage and I want you to come back at me try as best you can especially email you put on your Muslim cap today alright try to be a Muslim and try to listen to this from a Muslim spec perspective and try to hammer me any way you can because the more I can get hammered now the better it's gonna be for that film but also it's better for the Muslims to see that we are able to engage like this as Christians let me define terms I am a polemicist my PhD is in polemics in fact I think I'm the first in the world to get a PhD in Islamic polemics for one very good reason most people don't even know what the word means secondly there is no school in the world that teaches it this doesn't exist am I correct there's just no school that would would dare teach this because they would be targeted by Muslims polemics do you all know what this is someone who doesn't know what that word means you all know what it means yeah great so we can go right ahead so I go on the offense that's what I am I'm very offensive and I don't apologize for being offensive because this is exactly what I'm called to do don't you do this in the arab speaking world in pakistan you can do this in india but not in bangladesh all right you can do it in indonesia i have i have used this in indonesia but i we got in and we are able to do so i can teach it in these countries be careful about using it in muslim countries that's all i would say and it's sad that i have to say that isn't that interesting we don't said we don't do this with the christian world no there's no christian or any organization that would censor anybody criticizing the bible or criticizing the emergence of christianity or criticizing jesus christ this just doesn't exist it did historically we did have a historic appeared where that did happen but not today and certainly not in the New Testament period and that's why in fascinating that we're now coming full circle we're doing what Paul did and what I'm doing today is what Paul did when he was in Ephesus or Berea Cappadocia Laodicea whenever he went into the synagogue and confronted the Jews with what they had done to the Messiah that's what I do I fall he's my example and he's my paradigm so what we're gonna do today be aware of the fact that this is more for Europe this is for your locale this kind of material you can use all over Europe and really all over the world just not in the 1040 window and I'm even saying that be careful because there may place that are many places you can use it in the 1040 window I'll let each one of you decide in your own wherever you're going to move or what cover country you're in how it is effective or not so let's start with this claim that Muslims make so what do they claim well they make the claim and for the last 1400 years they've made this claim now I am gonna tell you put your pencils down you're not going to keep up with me however all of you can have this pop power point at the end of the at the end of the session just give me your USB Drive and I'll slip it over to you and you can put it on your computers so this is available to all of you not to those on the camera I get this all the time people all over the world because you said we could have this PowerPoint because I said it on camera for people only in this room you can have this PowerPoint all right because I do not want to spend my whole life sending powerpoints all over the world and remember even what I say today in another six months it'll have changed because we're getting in so much new material all the time that's the exciting thing about this material it is new and it is exciting and it's all going one direction which is really helping us out so let's go ahead start with this claim whether they Muslims are radicals whether they are nominal whether they are liberal they would all make well maybe not the Liberals let's hold off on the Liberals they may not make this claim but anybody else would say that the muhammed is the last and the greatest of all prophets they would say that the quran was his revelation sent down only to him and that is the final and greatest revelation so it supersedes anything that comes after it or sorry even before it and therefore Islam is the final religion based on Muhammad's life in sayings and the Koran teaching so that's the book in the man this teachings of Muhammad would be the Sunnah and that would include the sila which is a set of dual Osceola his biography the hadith which would be his sayings the tafseer which would be the commentaries on the quran and the topic which would be the history so those are the four genre of the Islamic or the Sunna of the Prophet looking at his example to then apply what's in the Quran so Islam is completely dependent on one book in one man the book in the man so we need to investigate both the Quran and Muhammad and see if indeed the Muslims are correct we've already done the book two nights ago and that by the way is up online that what I did two nights ago is already up online on Van der films if you want to take a card here's the thing on YouTube founder films go up and look at it I put it up about a month and a half ago it was a talk that I did on the Quran in Hong Kong back in November where I was to debate a Muslim and he never showed up so what I did we decide to go ahead and put it and do it at the University there the the City University the day before we were to do that talk at the City University the Muslims in Hong Kong went to the authorities and said that I was a hate preacher and that I was an Islamophobe now the City University didn't even ask to talk to me about it they just banned me from the University just like that this is the second year running where that has happened the year before in 2017 I was also in Hong Kong to go to another university to talk a similar talk and we had already started to talk like I were doing right now we were half when an hour into the talk when the authorities came and threw us all out 200 of us and we all had to walk down the hill to a church and continue it but you know you can ban us all you want we still film everything we say and that went up on on my Fender film site about a month and a half ago over 40,000 people have watched it now and we're getting reports in Muslims are now contacting me who have become Christians because of that talk the same talk that you all hurt but you heard very encapsulate a very short form that is now up so you can get the one on the Quran on founder films that's up there now now this here is the next step this is going now to Muhammad himself this is going to the emergence of Islam and to these claim one book modeled by one man so what about the math well let's see what Muslims have said and this is what I called this is the classical account this is the only account you're getting here on University campuses this is the one you've grown up with this is the one that every Muslim knows and it starts from the premise that Muhammad was born in 570 in Mecca that he received or he came upon an angel in the hid acavie now he would go up there and meditate according to the classical account I'm gonna keep saying the classical account okay you'll see why according to the classical account based on eben Hisham and even you suck so anytime I say even his shaman even you suck hold on to that you'll see why in 610 then when he was approached by this angel well he didn't know who it was but and the angel says gonna which means read or recite and his response was mark I cannot receive I could not recite the angel squeezed him this happened three times and finally the angel let him go he fled back to Mecca went to his wife Khadijah his only wife at that time told her what had happened and so she did a quick test by having him sit on either leg asking him the question and then disrobing knowing that if it was an angel they were the angel will not be in her presence while she was naked and so when he's still considered to sit still said yes this was what happened to me she realized he was telling the truth went to her cousin I been water ke been no fault to have him listen to this story Watergate but no fall according to their traditions was a nestorian christian isn't that interesting so her cousin is the one that listens to the story turns to Muhammad and says truly the you are a prophet this is a revelation coming to you so it's a nestorian christian that gives muhammad the authority as a prophet one of the ironies of history he that restarts to receive these revelations and he receives them from 6-10 to 622 there in Mecca he then while he's receiving these revelations he then recites them he does not write these down his companions there in Mecca would memorize what he was saying so if you look at the Quran and you just split it in half now this goes from right to left because it follows the Arabic that would be Medina this would be Mecca so it's these surahs at the bladder half the second half of the crime there are some Medina and material here and there is some Mecca me Tyrael here but that's the Meccan it's the second half of the Quran because they're the largest surahs sorry the other way around they're the smaller sewers so these revelations were much more short-winded to begin with and they got more and more long-winded as he moved to Medina he moves to Medina in 622 but before he moves to Medina and there 621 he is woken up in the middle of the night and he's told to go up on the back of a winged horse who flies him up to Jerusalem and from Jerusalem he elevate he goes up to this seven heavens gets up to the seventh heaven and meets Allah up there who tells him to pray fifty times a day comes down to the fifth heaven meets Moses Moses how many times asked you to pray is 50 saw its way to me go back up and see if you get it down so he bounces back and forth between the seventh and the fifth heaven bringing the prayers down from 50 45 down to ten five prayers once he gets it to five prayers Moses is fine now you can go back down to earth that's where we get the five prayers from the it's called The Mirage and that happens there in 621 while he's in Mecca interesting so the five prayers we the Malta Muslims pray today come from Moses don't and it's fascinating because you will not find five prayers in the Quran you will only find three ironic isn't it nonetheless this happens in 621 622 that he is invited by the unsilent to come up in arbitrate between the unsought and the Jews the boundary of kind of a family the bottom of the deer family the Banu Qurayza these are three Jewish tribes that were very wealthy and they were dominating the trade in the unsub we're having difficulties with them and that's why they used Muhammad as an neutral arbiter to come and do that arbitration so he moves up in 622 it's known as the hitter hitter means as you know it means exodus so he has an exodus to Medina with around 80 some traditions say as many as 200 followers so it was not very large not very many people at that time 622 then he starts receiving these this part of the Quran the first part the hit Medina in material much longer much more violent these are the problematic chapters not these 622 then that begins and then in between 622 and 633 then in 630 he then moves down to Mecca takes over Mecca without firing a shot so now he now controls all of the central part of Arabia called the Hejaz and then in 632 he suddenly dies which tends to happen to all of us now at his death the Quran had not yet been written down it was still on pieces of bark stones and on in the memory of his companions up a bucket of takes over control and he rules for two years and at that time he then is the first to write to have the Quran written down he takes a man names idea bin tubby to is his the secretary Muhammad to gives him that responsibility so there's the first recension the first copy the first codex of the Quran written in 632 to 634 how the bucket dies normal death Uman takes over and he's the one that it starts to expand the borders and moves starts moving right across North Africa in your direction this way and then goes this direction over towards the sanitary the sustenance these are the persians now he then is killed in 646 and booth month takes over so he's the third calif calif would be like a king so from 646 to 656 booth Minh is in power and then he takes that copy that was made by xiah demon Thabeet and that had been hidden under the bed of Huff's ax one of the wives of Muhammad he takes that copy of hers and has ID Ben tubi redo that Quran again recopy it and to do it in the quad-hd dialect that happens in around 652 and then from that one copy they make nine copy send it to nine different provinces and then he is killed in 646 and the cousin and son-in-law of Muhammad Ali then takes over as the fourth caliph and he only survives five years on the in 651 then he is killed at the bottle Battle of Siffin by mooyah so here you have you have the four caliphs you have Muhammad's life and you have the 4k dose and I said I say six if you went 661 because he takes over in 656 to 661 so that's the story the classical account have any of you heard any different now you may have heard many other things I'm just giving you the bare skeleton okay is there any reason to doubt that everything I've told you where does it come from I helped you out about five minutes ago I gave the names of where this comes from Ibanez suck Ibanez Shawn Albahari Sahih Muslim even doubt al-tabari have you heard these names before if you were a Muslim and those who are listening you would know these names immediately and you would know that this is the only source for everything I've just told you there's no other source what are these names eben is suck even his shell Sahih Bukhari Sahib Muslim eben doubt on top of good man you do remember hi give them a combination take a look and see where this material so everything we've talked about is right here in this period right there's the 572 632 and then on up to 650 600 necessary so all this that we're talking about is where that red line is now hopefully you would assume that everything that we're talking about was written by people who live then right should be right but they don't the first time we hear anything about about Muhammad's life is from ebony suck right here look when he died 765 but we don't have any of it Benny sucks material everything we know about Muhammad Allah Islam began was actually written down by this guy right here opinion Shama look when he died 833 Muhammad died in 632 how many years 200 years so the first time we hear anything written down about Muhammad's life anything we've heard about how Islam began about Medina about Mecca about this story about him going up to the seven heavens all these great stories is first written down two hundred years after the fact even Hisham didn't even live in that part of the world he lived far to the west and hundreds of years later in hundreds of miles away he gets from ibanez suck but as he says himself much of what even a sock said he did not trust so he threw it out and only tane that which he trusts so we have no idea whether or not even the material from even his sock is in his writing so therefore everything we know about Mohammed begins to be written down in 833 what about the sayings of Muhammad which are even more prolific we're told by the Islamic scholars that a man named Abu Hadi was given six hundred thousand of these sayings of Muhammad their whole bodice and he took those six hundred thousand thousand and then he whittled of done to get it throughout 98% of them and only retains seven thousand three hundred ninety-seven so basically seven thousand four hundred of the six hundred thousand he only retained 2% of it and through all the rest away he dies in 870 so that's two hundred and forty years later that you get the first sayings of Muhammad written down in a codified form we don't even have Alba Hadees original text the earliest texts we have for a body is not to the 11th century when you get all set nine volumes the nine volumes of Al Behati are not do not appear until a 17th century Huachuca - are you seeing what I'm saying now the others that write down the hadith men like Sahih Muslim even now they all right after 870 so you're talking about 240 and later that you finally get these references to what Muhammad said but these people don't even come from Arabia Bull Hadi comes from Buddha which is up north of Iran today hundreds of miles away hundreds of years later they had never met Muhammad yet they suddenly know what Muhammad said so everything that we're depended on for our Muslims are dependent on for the classical account comes from not 765 but from a t-38 33 and later now let's look at Christianity let's look at the biography of Jesus and look at the sayings of Jesus the biography of Jesus would be the Matthew Mark Luke and John the black-letter part of Matthew Mark Luke and John the sayings of Jesus the hadith of Jesus would be Matthew Mark Luke and John the red-letter part where it's red-letter so you have read letters wherever Jesus speaks that's the hadith of Jesus the tough seer I didn't talk about that tafseer the tafseer of of the commentaries don't begin to appear until 923 that's the tenth century that's 300 years later he's the first to write down any tough and he's also the first alpha body is the first to write down any topic which would be the histories of all mankind 10th century so everything we know about Jesus what he said and did was written well the first three Gospels were written within 40 years of Christ's death brah by 60 AD 70 AD and then you have John though Turin written about 90 80 so within 60 years of Christ's death you have the hadith of Jesus and the citta of Jesus am I correct 60 years written by those who actually knew him John and Matthew were right there they were with Jesus for the last three years they saw what he did they heard what he said so they were I witness the other two Mark and Luke got it from the eyewitnesses who are with Jesus so here you have the tough sit in the tip end and then that tough see the tough set of Jesus would be the commentaries that explain what he did would be Paul's letters the gospel of Jesus applied in Philip I the gospel of Jesus applied in Corinth in court in Ephesus these are the letters so that's the commentary that would be equivalent to the tafseer of Mohammed these would be the tough seer of Jesus they were written within 15 to at least 65 because there are 62 when Paul was then finally killed in Rome so all of them would have been written within 30 years of Christ's death am I correct on that though he was not an eyewitness to Jesus himself he was the one that took and then applied it to each one of those cities and the party would be the book of Acts there's the equivalent the book of Acts which is this history of the early church that would have been written by Luke it had been written between six-six I'm sorry 50 to 80 and 60 to 80 within a ten year period so you then you understand that within 30 years you get the 30 so all four genres are written within 50 to 60 years of Christ's death all four genres for Mohammed would rewritten two to three hundred years for Mohammed's death which is more authoritative and yet no one's asked this question I remember hearing this in 1994 when I was studying there at school of Warrington African studies under dr. Gerald haunting and I heard these late dates and I said wait a minute I raised my hands and I said this is hugely problematic he says yes but we're not going to talk about that because there were 25 Muslims in the class and he was the first one to introduce me what I'm gonna be doing next but it was fascinating that he did not want to come to any conclusions because she was fearful of what the Muslims would say in London the premier school in London on historical the historical history of Islam so 21st century scholars are deeply troubled by this these late dates and so they're saying this Islam as we know it did not exist in the seventh century but evolved over a period of two to three hundred years the Quran probably was not revealed to one man in 22 years but likely evolved or a period of 5200 years their conclusion is that the history of early Islam at least from the time of the caliph of the Mallick and before it's a later fabrication now that's a huge bit to say how am I gonna prove it I'm not gonna prove it I'm gonna let them prove it we're gonna use their material so let's look at their concerns this is the primary concerns why is it it took so long to write this down why did it take 200 years to write down what Muhammad said and did Oh 240 years in some case where the people not literate remember they controlled by six six eighty five this is by the time of the mullet comes to power and creates and we're gonna see remember that name we're gonna talk a lot about that name this morning of the Manik he is the great Calif from 685 to 705 who then introduces the Arab the whole Arab identity but nonetheless up until his time they met control bas a toboggan Damascus Druze from Cairo by 642 and then from Spain to India by 685 Spain to India that whole swath of land from Spain to India was under the control and still is under the control except for Spain and Jerusalem Israel all the rest that land is still under their control 1,400 years later so there's no reason not to have written this down plus people could read and write could they not in those countries certainly they could we know there was a library in Alexandria in the 5th century that was burned to the ground so people could read and write Muslims tell us that they could read a bite they are the ones that tell us that this was written down in 632 by Zayat even thumbi if you're writing down that means you're putting together a book right it's their claim so you cannot excuse it by saying no one could read and write that early doesn't work any more more than that where did the 9th century biographers get their material from well if you look at every one of the UH cabarrus there's a month in that in that procedure and that would be the names that it's not the it's not would be the names of those from what the spectate got it from so I got it from so-and-so we got from some so we've got from Stone Soup who got from a companion of the Prophet and in every case of all of these uh commodities they have these missed ads that are derived there now what does that tell you what is this all based on oral tradition everything we know about Mohammed everything we know about Islam everything we know about the emergence of Islam everything we know about how the Quran was put together all comes from oral tradition I have a problem with oral tradition because I know what'll happen if I told you something in your ear and you tell her and he comes on down here by the time it gets to him what I tell you and what I tell him are two different things you pay that you've probably played that in birthday parties we call it Chinese whispers sorry if there's any Chinese here but or telephone it's a great thing to play but infini 15-minute period if you can get a whole different story can you imagine what happens over 200 years and so you can see that this is problematic this is enormous ly problematic if this everything that Muslims are dependent on everything they know about how Islam began who their prophet was and also how the Quran was written is all based on oral tradition can it be trusted absolutely not and that's why we're the historians are very concerned and what they're saying is why not if we cannot trust that why don't we go back to the seventh century let's go back to the seventh century let's go to this time period when the world looked like this and this is by 661 so we're talking about 60 51 they already controlled this part of the world they moved into that part and so from from Andalusia which is Spain the name for Spain today it's called Ana Lucia then all the way over to the Moghul Empire which is now India today that whole swathe of land was under their control very literate and very certainly would have had no excuse whatsoever to have written this down now what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna look at these scholars here these are the scholars I get my material from dr. John Juan's burrow who was head of department at school of Warren's on African Studies he came out with two books called chronic studies and sectarian milieu in the 1970s that blew open this whole criticism and so he's he's I'm gonna be using him dr. Gerald haunting was my teacher in 1994 when I studied there at school of Warrington so as and he looks at the first century of Islam and his the probably the best one that I've come across that unpacks that material for us dr. Patricia Corona was a I knew her she when I started my doctorate she was the MA she was my one of my first supervisors she was at Cambridge at that time she reads and writes 15 languages all archaic languages so you can see the scholarship that we're talking about I don't think anybody's been able to equal her she didn't just passed away about a year and a half ago she got death threats for writing a book on mekin trade I'll be using her material on Mecca they were gonna come to and she had a move from Oxford University to Cambridge University that's when I knew her my first debate in 1995 I went to her office and she was the one that actually walked me through all this newest material and it was her material that I used in that debate I gave ten historical questions to dr. Junger Badawi in 1995 August of 1995 that was my first debate on this material we're in 2019 this is 24 years later and yet Jim Obadiah and none of them have been able to answer those ten questions all of them came from dr. Patricia kroner now that was we put that up on the internet it's still up there and you'll see why because some of those aren't gonna introduce in this talk so this is nothing new for me this has been around for 24 years 25 years moving on 25 years dr. Andrew Ripon out of Calgary he has probably one that has brought these difficult ideas and put it down to layman's terminology he just passed away as well dr. Robert Hyland out of Oxford he's no longer there I think he's up in Edinburgh I'm not sure he's at right now but when he wrote his book on seeing Islam as other saw it he reads and writes 18 languages so these scholars are really linguists they go back to the original language and they read him in the rigid language and they usually don't translate them for the rest of us because they don't want Muslims to read this which is tragic because they're up in a Scholastic world they're in the academia world and they do not want this to get down to the streets when I was studying with dr. Gerald hunting I would take what he was saying in class and after two weeks every Muslim in that class left the class own I said not every two remained this is the 1994 when we were getting it hearing this material and it's the first time I'd ever heard this material I had a master's in Islam and I never come across this material because they were not teaching this in America yet this was only being taught in Britain and Germany those are the only two places they were teaching this new material and I remember there's the Muslims left they slammed the door yelling a LaHood but as they slammed the reason why is they could not come up with any rebuttals they had no idea how to handle this kind of material and that's why gerald hunting was going very soft he didn't want to come to any conclusion he just put it out there well I was going to speaker's corner at that time and I just started to try it out at speakers corner and I got filmed there they didn't have you know these smart phones back then but they did have cameras and it was put into a video cassette and they were selling it in the bookstores there in London and one of the students saw this VHS remembered the old VHS has brought it to dr. Hawking and showed him and one of your students is getting up and actually introducing what you're teaching down a speaker's corner he called me to his office and he gave me a lecture he says don't you ever do this I said sir if you're putting it out there I've got to use it if you're refusing to use it I've got to do it don't stop me Muslims need to hear this it's no good for you just teaching teaching it in a class and keeping it cut cut couched and keeping it private this is devastating for Islam this is going to destroy and I set it aside this is the Achilles heels of Islam right here and here you are keeping it to yourself keeping an academia where it doesn't belong thank God you're doing the research but let us if you're not going to do it don't stop me from doing it let me get it out there 1995 I was introducing it I was back in the 1990s that the speaker's corner was very violent this is before if Muslims became peaceful there was no narrative a piece back in 1990s that only came after 9/11 where the narrative suddenly changed overnight but back then we would they would have all these speakers on different ladders and there was about 10 speakers down there and all around that would be their toddy base there are disciples from the jamaat-e-islami and the publicly Jamaat and I would go into each group and I would try to confront the speakers and I remember introducing dr. Gerald hunting's material and one day in 1995 the guy who was up on the ladder he was a convert Trinidadian called convert to Islam I can't remember his name anymore but he got off the letter and he was he had been a professional boxer and he just slammed me and I went flying and I went out I went unconscious I don't know what happened after that what I was told is about 60 Muslims came and start kicking me on the ground and dennah a big black man came and laid on top of me and took all the blows that's what I was told the police finally got and were able to pull me out and it was in the news the next day and I asked the police where's this black man I'd like to thank him says he's disappeared had no idea who he was a number of years ago I was at speakers corner and I was on a ladder and this time what was back there in 1995 the police were so concerned because they said listen next time you're gonna die there's no way we can protect you you've got to get on a ladder so we can see you at all times no I said okay I've never been on a ladder before and I'm not really good at homiletics and I don't know how to yeah I couldn't string a lot of words together I wasn't really that as clever as I am now because speaker's corner trained me to do what I'm doing now I see I said you've got to get a letter at least for your own protection so I said okay I'll get on a ladder and I've been on a ladder ever since I'll be on a ladder this Sunday but in I was in the middle of a debate I had done my four debates what was happening by them not by 2010 11 12 I've can't reverse this 2012 I would talk to the camera and I would tell Muslims this and I'm here every Sunday if you have any problem what I'm saying come and see me coming and debate me and I always keep a second ladder for that reason and they would come up these guys would come from all over the world they would come and we would have these half an hour debates 5 minutes 5 minutes 5 minutes 5 minutes back in 45 minutes and it was so much fun because you really engage them very quickly and you don't know what the subject is but you don't have any computer you have no books in your hand you have nothing you just have to have it all in your head and that's a great way to learn how to engage like that because if you can do it at speakers corner you can do it tea shops anywhere in the world and it's a great way to train us and after this one day day I had debated maybe four different Muslims about half an hour each I'd got off the ladder and suddenly I start getting beat up I just start they're punching me these young there I think they look they look there are Middle Easterners because they had never heard this kind of criticism before and you can understand if you're hearing this kind of criticism how damaging it can be for the Muslims and suddenly a big black man came and put his arms around me said let's go J and he took the blows for me when I turned around to thank him he had disappeared so I called him Barry my black angel I was told by the Muslims that there are two angels above the branches who sit there and they could see them a fellow Mubeen guy in nine 2010 came from Canada and he saw these angels on the branches above me and he's scared to death we went and had dinner afterwards and he told me about it and he had no idea what those two people were why those two guys were up in the why they were up in their in their branches and I said well tell me what did you see because I've never seen them in the 25 years there I've never seen any anybody in branches above me these big oak trees that we stand under there at High Park and he says well there were two men sitting on a branch looking at you smiling at you must have seen them Jay they scared me you must have seen him I said no but I know what you saw and I said every day I get up on the ladder there are churches in America 20 churches or so I get up on a ladder at four o'clock in the afternoon they're there at eleven o'clock in the morning so five hours difference they're starting to pray that I preach the gospel they're starting to pray that Muslims hear it they're starting to pray for my protection you saw the answer to their prayers those are angels I have never seen them and I know that Christians see angels everywhere but Muslims are not used to this you have no idea of the index that's why God wanted you to see them so that when you told me you saw these two men I could trust you before I can trust any Christians on this so I called him Harry and Barry Harry and larry those harry and larry on the branches in very on the ground but this is the kind of stuff that when you unpack it you're gonna have to you're gonna have to use this kind of protection when haunting heard that I was doing this I said to him you keep doing the research I'm not asking you to go public with this however anything you publish I can quote so be careful what you publish but please do publish it because we want to quote them and I said this is I understand this is not your battle you're nothing more than an academic you don't have any anything really there's nothing that you're in that there's no reason why you would want this to go to the Muslims because you don't have a better answer you have nothing to give them I do and the question is what do we do and we if we're going to talk about oral tradition or we're gonna talk about historical authenticity and credibility should we not apply that to every faiths including the Jehovah Witnesses including the Mormons and especially the Mormons because I understand and I'm not a expert on Mormonism like you are but when you look and ask the same question historical critique on Mormonism it destroys Mormonism especially with the glasses of Joseph Smith that's can you see then why if this this exercise that we're doing today must be done to every book it must be done to the Book of Mormon it must be done to the Obon assad's the bhagavad-gita the Vedas all the Hindu scriptures have to also pass the same historical test that so far only the Bible has so getting to your second question there's the segue right to the second question I don't want to leave them hanging I don't want a theist to take this material and use it because they have nothing to replace it with I want to make sure that when Muslims hear the the criticism that we're gonna give the historical criticism that we're gonna give on there emerged on the emergence of what they believe has always been authentic I don't want to send therefore destroy that faith because God bless them they have a faith in God they already believe in heaven and hell they already believe the prophetic line they already believe that there is a that there is a beginning in it and in more than that they also believe that there is a problem with sin so already we see have some commonalities I just want to bring them home and I want to bring him home throughout another book that has passed every one of the tests we're asking of the Quran I also want to bring him to home to another man that's also passed this historical test that we're now applying to Muhammad so for heaven's sakes don't destroy that but I also want to say same thing to all of our Jehovah Witnesses and certainly our Mormon brothers and sisters they need to ask the question we're asking today of the Book of Mormon and they're gonna find that there are holes enormous holes historical holes with the Book of Mormon therefore don't give up God just come on home just come on home and I say that to my Muslim friends come on home because their their faith in God is beautiful and the fact that they have such a strong faith in God I'm jealous of that that faith but they got the wrong God they've got the wrong history they've got the wrong prophet they've got the wrong book so let's move on let's go ahead and look at these characters well they're not characters they're quite well-known individuals Hoyland as I said from Oxford and Neville are huge the cross his up was at the University of Jerusalem he is the one that actually want and looked at the earliest inscriptions and noticed all these inscriptions had no Shahada on them no reference to people called Muslims no reference to a religion called Islam yet these are inscriptions from the mid 7th century moving right up to the late part of the seventh century Muhammad died in 632 in the beginning of the seventh century so he's done an amazing work looking at the earliest Arab inscriptions and that's why I purposely say Arab not Muslim and then you have the German school Luling twin von both for Oleg these are the ones who are far far the best in the world on the earliest Islamic or chronic manuscripts and we're not going to talk more about them today but the others we will but there have been three books that have come out one of them is right here in the shadow of the sword by Tom Holland in 2012 so it's been out seven years if you don't have it get it because he took that this very academic material and brought it down to layman's terminology so that you can use it you can get it on Amazon it's it's large thick book so be careful read the first hundred pages then jump to the last hundred pages and then you get everything that's essential anything in between is as good but it's not dealing with the historical critique and then he did a documentary that tried to encapsulate what he was saying in his book in 2012 in August 28 called Islam the untold story that was shown on channel 4 television and just it's only 90 minutes long and if any of you wanted I have it right here on my computer I can give it to you before you leave today what's fascinating that he was very careful not to come to any conclusions he just put the material out there and they you would have a scholar a Muslim scholar I think from Georgetown University who stood next to him and asked him for his response much like the question you just asked and he's a scholar and his response was who cares basically that's what he said I don't really care because I realize that we have 1.6 billion and on camera he would have to say that and that's what they're they'll say at speakers corner this Sunday who cares what's happening is the people who are watching the film care they have to save face and this is called what we call the the the private vs. the public face I don't really want them to say anything I want them to go home and then deal with it I want them in private to ask now what are you gonna do want everything you know is get has been destroyed from underneath you your foundations have been thrown out so they tried to show this film a second time in November the Muslims we wrote in they had they refused to let it be shown and so it's never been shown a second time the censorship is so strong in Britain now for anything that's against Islam then you have Dan Gibson now dan Gibson is an archaeologist archaeologist he has rather than write read books although he has read book his whole life he grew up in a family there were archaeologists his grandfather was an archaeologist his father was an archaeologist they all lived in the Middle East so he grew up in the Middle East he spooks speaks fluent Arabic and he went in 1979 and started did research on the the geographical areas that in the Quran and also on the giblets especially the giblets that means the direction of prayer and I'm gonna use a lawful lot of his material because he has come out with me he has probably been the most prolific in this area so from 1979 to 2004 for 25 years he lived in Morocco he lived in Jordan he lived in Yemen and he just spent his time amongst the Bedouins and he is the first one to actually go to every one of these locations physically go to every one of them and then take coordination get his coordinates in situate in stay in London or in a large city away from their place he actually went to each one of these locations to find out how to answer these questions so what are they finding I mean to give you the conclusions before I even support those conclusions what they have found is that the first Arab inscription referencing Muhammad is in 691 hold on him and he died in 632 do you see how problematic that is the first Arab I'm not using the word Muslim I'm saying Arab inscription we don't see any reference to Muhammad in any Arab text prior to 691 that's 60 years too late the first reference to Muslims is in the six 90s around the same time that Muhammad is introduced so is the word Muslim introduced yet Muslims were supposed to been around since 624 Muhammad was the first was the Muslim that actually introduced it so what did these Arabs call themselves well they call himself Saracens that stayed renamed for an Arab they called himself Huggins because they came in the line of Hagar they call himself Ishmael Isaac the son of Hagar so they were Ishmaelites they called himself my grades because they're from the Maghreb and they call themselves maja Giroux these are the names they get himself when you look at their documentation they refer to themselves in these five names Mahajan are people of the hijab people of the Exodus could also be refer to being nomadic the first reference to the word Islam is not till 691 that's first recorded on the Dome of the rock there in Jerusalem built in 691 by of the Malik that's why other Malik is so important and then the first reference to Mecca watch this the first reference to Mecca is not till 741 whew - two - two that's the huge one that's the one that it's disturbing everybody you'll see why as we get to it the first biography of Muhammad as I've already said does not even appear until 833 so let's go right into it let's look at geography now damn Gibson when he looked through this book here and of course he scoured it he noticed that there are about 65 references to geographical locations only nine places are named what was over what was overwhelming where the number of references to these people that had contact with this prophet but it doesn't name the prophet in the Quran you will only find Muhammad's name four times did you know that I'll give you the references right here these are the only places you'll find his name chapter 3 verse 1 44 chapter 33 verse 40 chapter 47 verse 2 and chapter 48 verse 29 that's it all the way through the Quran it refers to this prophet it refers to the place of the prophet but doesn't give a name there's only one place where Mecca is referenced and that's in chapter 40 verse 24 that's it so this man this prophet who lives in the place of the prophet or the settlement of the Prophet but is given no names suggests that there's a problem here with that name I love this can you then understand that we're already we're starting to see that there are some there looks like that this name was then added at a later date nonetheless what we do know is that this Prophet 24 times has contact with people from the mood which are the Nabataeans 23 times has contact with people from wood or uh which we now know is the biblical use and seven times has contact with people from millions who are the Midianites the difficulty is look and see where the people from a thumb would in Midian are they live way up here 600 miles further north he's down here in Mecca how did he have contact with these people over and over again day after day unless he had a helicopter to trough travel 1200 miles do you see the difficulty that immediately shows you that there's a difficulty with the Quran itself so let's then do a comparison in the Quran there are 65 geographical references nine places are named 600 miles too far north every one of the places is in the wrong place just look at the Gospel of Luke as a comparison which is much much older it's six hundred years older seven hundred years older than the Quran 110 geographical represents 31 places named every one of them in the right place no one disputes the Gospel of Luke or the book of Acts that's the beauty of the Bible so like with like you can see enormous disparity just between something as simple as geographical locations in two different books so let's now go to the second problem Mecca and this is the biggie what are you gonna do with Mecca well it's only referred to in chapter 48 verse 24 that's the only place you will find in all it says is and he it is who have withheld mints and from you and have withheld your hands from them in the valley of Mecca so we do know it's in a valley after he had made your victors over them Allah's here of what he do so that's it that's all you're gonna get from the Quran on Mecca it's in a valley we need to know an awful lot more now according to not only the Quran according to the traditions there's an awful lot that Muslims impose on Mecca though it doesn't say Mecca it just says the place of the Prophet the Prophet whoever this prophet is but according to the Quran it's the first sanctuary reporting to mankind is Bukka which could be Mecca it is the mother of all settlements according to chapter 6 verse 92 in chapter 42 verse 7 but it doesn't refer to Mecca it just says again over and over again the place of the Prophet it is where Adam and Eve supposedly were lived it was where Eve was thrown down - according to their traditions in Chapter 7 verse 24 they're thrown out of the Garden of Eden which is up in space see their gardening medians in space ours is on earth two completely different Garden of Eden thrown down to earth and Eve was sent down - to the place of the Prophet which Muslims claim is Mecca Adam was sent over to India southern India and he walks across he just strides across and gets to Mecca the guy must have been huge but nonetheless there you can see a reference to Mecca so that would suggest that this place called Mecca was the first settlement for all of mankind I'm guessing it because I don't think there's anybody before Adam and Eve am I correct in chapter 21 verse 51 to 71 it talks about Abraham it doesn't say Mecca but he is in the place of the Prophet and he built rebuilt the kaaba with Ishmael what is Abraham doing way down in Mecca 600 miles too far south he was up supposed to be in Mesopotamia and in Canaan way up in the north but nonetheless in chapter 21 he's there in the Kaaba and he rebuilt he destroys the images the idols in the Kaaba and then he's thrown into a fiery pit which seems to come from the story of Shadrach Meshach and Abednego and then according to the traditions Muhammad now the traditions are written in the ninth century now they're referring to Mecca but these are the traditions not the Quran accorded additions he then was born in Mecca lived there until 622 so from 570 to 622 about 50 for 50 years and that he then canonized the Qibla towards Mecca according to chapter 2 verse 149 in the quran itself yet the only reference to Mecca as I said earlier is in chapter 48 24 and as I say none of these verses reference the name echo it's been imposed on it and whenever you see it in the Koran they always put it in parentheses because it's not there in the Arabic important whenever you see parentheses in the Quran that's commentary okay that's not the Quran that's not the text so what we do know from the traditions is that this place where the Prophet lived that it was in a valley in a parallel valley according to eben his sake it had a stream going through it according to Albahari it was outside it are the ruins where the pillar of salt were supposedly Lot's wife was made into a pillar of salt and that fields according to Albahari it had trees burn his sake Ltd it had grass Cornell Buhari have fruit Cornell Bihari Albahari al Tabata talks about has clay in law and both the according to the Souris it had all of trees with mountains overlooking it according to you betta suck now stop and think this is a very fertile place am I correct and has streams it has a valley it has clay loam tree it has all of trees can you see the problem right there there are no olive trees outside of the Mediterranean world nowhere you only have all the trees in the Mediterranean world you do not have any olive trees in anywhere in Arabia so you can see immediately when you look at this this is not Mecca why haven't Muslims talked about this before why I'm no historians mentioned this before well Dan Gibson saw this and he said this doesn't make sense none of this makes sense he started the whole problem of Mecca the difficulty is when you look at maps this is just a modern-day map looking back at the 7th century look at all the trade routes are in the green lines and notice Mecca should be right here that should be where Mecca is notice they don't go through Mecca so let's here's another map of the trade routes and notice they all go through come they come down through here Petra so these ones are coming down there notice this one here that's important as well the one that comes along the waterway so here's a map this is a map from the 6th century that's where Mecca should be it's not there here's another one Mecca should be right there listen seventh-century Mecca doesn't appear on that map here's another one from the 7th century Mecca still missing a 7th century map Mecca should be right around there non-existent every one of the maps that were getting from the 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th century do not have Mecca on them doesn't exist so that's curious now let's look at this map this is a modern map looking back redacting back to what scholars believed existed back in the 7th century and this is the map that dr. Patricia Karuna looked at and she saw problems immediately now Montgomery watt the famous Islam assist Scottish Presbyterian who is well known for in creating what we know is the trade route theory suggested that the trade coming from China in India over here could not come this way because of them of the Hindu Kush and the Himalaya Mountains so that stopped the trade from going this direction so they had to come this direction and they came to the western coast of India Gujarat and all the coastal areas and they went across the Arabian Sea up through the Persian Gulf disembarked there and then they took their goods over here to the Mediterranean world so all the trade needed to get to the Mediterranean world they came this route that was where trade went until the 5th century AD when you had the Byzantines up here were warring against the sustenance were the Persians over here so you had these 2 great empires warring against each other which shut down all the trade going from the Persian Gulf had be redirected therefore down here to Aden down here c8 in there the tip of the Arabian Peninsula they would then take off their goods here in Aden and then transept across along this green line here all the way up 1200 miles up to Gaza in the north so it go from Aden to Sanatana to run to dive high Yathrib kaiba the book and then on up to gaza and what's interesting when Patricia wrote Crone looked at this map she said hold on a minute there are two problems first and foremost you can see the western plateau here here's where the trade would go the Western Plateau but look where Mecca is it's not on the plateau it's down off the plateau can see there's kind of a there's a detour from Taif to come down to Mecca then to get back up to you up there yes Rob is the archaic name for what is now known as Medina what's more she said look at Mecca it's not only on the Platte Western Plateau it's down off the western plateau on top of which she said it has no water how could it have been a caravan stop off place since it had no water to accommodate any caravans it was not an oasis it only has one well called the zum-zum well and other than that it was air it had no vegetation that was the first problem secondly take a look at that map again and this trade route theory that Montgomery want introduced suggesting all the materials and goods coming from the east we're offloaded here in Aden what's wrong with that theory now my ten-year-old son saw the problem immediately let's see if yours clever is my ten-year-old son let's see why didn't it go through up the red see exactly if you're on ship already why don't you continue on ship why do you take it off and go on land purchase a chrome found that if you go 50 miles by land just that distance it would be the same expense as going 1,250 miles by sea that's why we ship goods all over the world today by boat it's the cheapest way to send large amounts of goods even today these huge containing ships because you don't need any caravans you don't need any camels you don't have to feed camels you don't have to protect them you don't have to have a sister to be able to water them you don't have to you don't have to have any type of armaments you basically just stay on board ship it would make no sense to take off all the goods here in Aden and go 1,200 miles 50 miles by land so but she went one step further back in the 1980s she went and she went to all the trading documents from the second third fourth fifth six up until the seventh century now she remember she reads and writes 15 languages so she can read all the documents in their original text she wanted to find out if they knew of a place called Mecca she wanted to find out if there was any trade that went overland and what she found is the 15 spices that all the traditions say existed in Mecca not one of them existed in Mecca they all existed over here in India and China and also here in Africa only two spices came from the Arabian subcon and they were down here in what they call the Hudler MOT area what is Yemen and Oman today none of them were up here in Mecca nari in the hey Joss there were no spices up there because it was too arid for spices on top of which all the trade from the second third fourth fifth sixth and seventh century was controlled by this place right here ad Julis which is in Eritrea today it was the agile agile ooh cience there retrains who controlled all the trade they were the ones that plied the boats their names are found over here in India there were no Arab names found over here in India in the trading documents the reason was very simple the Arabs didn't really weren't really seafaring people they were mostly camel herders they plied the deserts their caravans were in the deserts and the only trade that they were interested in was leather and milk no spices so all these traditions were fallacious but most problematic was she could not find any reference to Mecca in any of their documents oh she found references to DYFS just over here she found references here in Stefan where which is now Baghdad they sent down they found up here in Yathrib they found some silver and they oppened up silver mines in Yathrib and they had silver just north of Mecca today's mecca they have found silver mines and she found lots of references to Yathrib in 2002 Naja ran into table oak and the khyber no reference to a place called Mecca at all can you see how this is rather disturbing now she got a death threat for writing that book and so she had to move to Cambridge University but that book is still out there you can go read it today it's up online go pull it down and read it and you can see this destroyed the trade route theory of Montgomery what and destroyed what everybody has assumed and she said even if they had applied in these spices of myrrh myrrh and frankincense which was you use here in the HUD room on your way up here how could these people control the trade that was down here why would they let these people hundreds of miles away control that trade and where was there any evidence of any of that trade so the first place that she could find any reference to the city of Mecca was the apocalypse of pseudo Methodius continued Tobi's on Tia Arabica that's it that's the first document anywhere she came out with this in 1987 we're now in 2019 nobody can find an earlier document 741 Muhammad died in 632 supposedly Mecca existed at the time of Adam and Eve Mecca was where Abraham went to in 1900 BC Mecca was the center of trade north south east and west according to all the Islamic traditions from the ninth century yet the first reference to the city is not till seven forty one the mid eight century it was not on any map until 980 no map included it if it was such an important city the oldest city in the history of mankind if it was the center of this enormous Kingdom if it had everything to do with the trade off now north south east and west why had no one heard of it so what about modern Mecca today they're now building huge stories of this huge story buildings this building here is the fourth tallest building in the world its enormous clock tower that they have built there overlooking the Kaaba down here now they're there they're trying to design it very much like Big Ben in London because they want to make that the center of time they want to change Greenwich Mean Time and put it to mekin meantime and so that's why these buildings are being built what's fascinating this is the future of Mecca this is what it's going to look like these are the four different plans you can see they're cementing up the entire place now why do you think they're building so many big buildings well obviously because they would say the Hajj is there but take a look at what they're doing here you can see the property where wife khadija this is her property it's no longer exist that's where the Prophet Mohammed supposedly was born and where he foo grew up you can see it's now being covered over look at all these enormous amount of cranes as they're building up they're gonna build 62 of these skyscrapers all around the Kaaba when you build skyscrapers you need to have deep foundations don't you therefore you need to dig into the sand whenever there is an archaic city an old city anywhere in the Middle East or anywhere in Europe what's the first thing you do you dig foundations and who are the first people to show up the archaeologists because the archaeologists are licking their lips because as you dig those foundations you're coming across artifact after artifact at artifact which recreates the history of the city and they're doing the job for you all you do is collect those artifacts and put them into a museum and that's what's going on here so the archaeologists are all there licking their lips and guess what they have found zero proving that there is no history to the city this history has no city that goes back to the seventh century now you can see why they're cementing the whole place up I think they know what we know if there's no history they don't want they want to destroy the evidence that's me saying that I am NOT saying that others say that if you have a problem with Mecca you're gonna have an even greater problem with the Qibla the Qibla is the direction of prayer you've seen Muslims pray in one direction anywhere in the world they have to pray towards the Kaaba towards Mecca am I correct and that's why when you go around the world there's the Kaaba right there that's the square building they'll pray there it is right there in there this is the big mosque that's all they built this is actually an older picture that doesn't have all the skyscrapers around it that have been built but the Qibla is found anywhere in the world when I was in Malaysia that was in my hotel room show me where the Qibla was if you go into a mosque you can find these myth Rob's these little niches in the wall and that's where you know where to pray today you can get it on your app on your phone apps to find out where the Qibla is and the reason for that is because five times a day need to know where Mecca is so the Qibla is absolutely important for every Muslim everywhere at every time according to chapter 2 verse 143 to 150 in the Quran it mentions that the Qibla was changed from Jerusalem down to the Great Mosque which they say Muslims believe was Mecca doesn't say so in the Quran but it says they claimed it was Mecca so at one time it did look it did face what one place north and then it was brought back down south again when the Jews rejected Muhammad as a prophet he then got a revelation from God to change the qibla back down to the great the Great Mosque now what's fascinating there were some researches back in the last century 1905 dr. Fahad Oddity and dr. Creswell who were doing archaeological digs and they went to Iraq and they went to two mosques in Iraq and they dug down to the original floor plans of those mosque and they found that this mosque these mosque in Kufa and in wasit just south of hug that today were facing straight West this should have been facing south they went to foot stock which is just out of sight of Cairo in Egypt which is they are the that that the town that was built as a for the rulers at that time garrison town and they went to the original floor plans of the fouché mosque and they found that the Qibla there is facing straight east if you look on a map you'll see the problem so here's what's up there's Kufa they're facing straight West they should be facing down here here in foot study in Egypt they're facing east there should be down here so as late as that's over a hundred years ago they already saw that there was a problem with the Qibla now there their response was ah these this these must have been facing Jerusalem that's how they responded and I remember doing a debate in 1998 where I said the same thing I was quoting them and I said if you look at the mosque and Wasat in Kufa and pushed up they're all facing Jerusalem and I got hammered by that the Muslims got up there and they RIS hammered me and they said Jay you have no idea what you're talking about you're three to five degrees off I said oh okay I should have taken them afterwards and I should have found out why I was three to five degrees off and they were correct I was three to five degrees off but back then I didn't hadn't met dan Gibson yet so I didn't know why I was three to five degrees off I just realized that they were very clumsy they were so there are three to five degrees up that's close enough but they certainly weren't facing Mecca okay so we've known about this for over a hundred years purchase a Crone knew about it but she didn't know how to come to any conclusion she just assumed like everybody that the earliest Arabs didn't know how to do their directions and so that's why they're well ninety degrees off in this case but three to five degrees if you're not if you're talking about Jerusalem even Jacob of Edessa in 705 so this is the eighth century mentions that he says about the mug racing so from all this it is clear that it is not to the south that the Jews in the mug nay the mug day is the name that is given to Arabs remember this is the name that was given to them because that's where they're from here in the regions of Syria pray but towards Jerusalem or the Kaaba even he thought it was Jerusalem back in the eighth century it was until Dan Gibson finally got on the scene and started to doing his research from 1979 to 2004 that suddenly we started to see a clearer picture and he went to every one of these Mosca's he was curious as to why so many of these mosques were misdirected and he thought they couldn't have been that bad because these were desert caravans camel herders they didn't have roads back then these were Nabataeans the Nabataeans were famous they were the ones that took the goods all the way over to Baghdad and beyond because they were the only ones that could transverse the gonna desert without ever getting lost because remember in the desert you have huge winds and every time the winds come it changes the sand dunes so you cannot have locations unless of course you're using the Stars so if they were that if they knew how to get from one place the other if you can't get to an oasis you die they were absolutely dependent on getting knowing where their direction was how could they be so off in all of these directions so he decided to go and look to every one of these places and he went to around 65 mosques I'm gonna show you 23 of them now and what we're gonna do there everything that I'm doing from here on out is from dan Gibson alright so you can go up on his side go up on Dan get some sight and look at his material but also get his books these are the books that he wrote just go back here no I don't have it here I thought I had it here did I not show his books before that even way back here my goodness there we go this is a book you need to get the Nabataeans wrote in 2003 where he first came out and showed that almost everything we know about Arab the Muslim world today is dependent on the Nabataean world the language Arabic comes from the Nabataean script the name Allah comes from the Nabataean God it's a generic title the god ilaha of whom do sharra is the proper name Allah is not all no longer it's only his generic title so most of what we know about Islam comes from the Nabataeans who were way much farther north but let's don't worry about that now we're gonna come back to that chronic geography then came out in 2011 where he really unpacked the geographical problems with this book and that was a huge eye-opener but then he did this a sacred city in 2016 and then he finally became with this book two years ago 2017 since this book has come out many researchers have really attacked Dan Gibson because people like dr. Dan David King who did his whole career is the world authority on the Qibla but never went to those places himself he well he may have gone to some but he never really did any of a forensic testing like Dan did has been just apps and he's at the end of his career can you imagine his whole career is now in jeopardy so you can see the problem there has been an awful lot of anger as to what Dan is saying so what Dan has done you need to go up on his site dan Gibson this is this year and he is now taking all their accusations in giving responses to them so I'm gonna help you with the responses but he still has another four or five videos to put up so even next year we'll have even more responses and this is why this it's it's back and forth as we wrap as is going on right this is what we call peer review he's getting peer reviewed as he goes as being confronted so Lansing I'll jump ahead to what we're going back and let's go through these slides real quickly so we come to Dan Gibson's Qibla now this is what he found on the ground he went to the maps of the area accumulated the historical data of the area and measured the GPS coordinates from outside and inside the building so he would go to the situation and you do he would not use Google Maps I know the Muslims have hammered him saying all he's using is Google Maps why would you not use Google Maps has nothing to with America Google Maps does not take the color of the earth into consideration it's just flat it's only interested in going from A to B it's not interested in the curvature of the earth so therefore and rightly so when the Muslims say ah you've just used Google Maps that's why you've got your year of coordinates wrong he was not that stupid he did not use Google Maps he used advanced thermal emission and reflection radiometer the astral satellites which are the most sophisticated satellites put up by the Japanese they are what they do they advanced spaceborne thermal emission and reflection radiometer obtains high resolution 15 to 20 square meters per pixel images of the earth in 14 different wavelengths of the electromagnetic spectrum ranging from the visible to the thermal infrared light scientists use aster data to create detailed maps of land surface temperature and emissivity reset reflective and elevation aster is the only high spatial resolution instrument in the terra platform it collects an average of 8 minutes of data per orbit so it's always taking pictures of the Earth's surface that's why he had to go to the best now you have to pay for that and of course it costs an awful lot of money but because of the fact that he wanted to make sure his coordinates were absolutely accurate he used them often and what he would do he would then look at from the satellite looking straight down onto the moss and make sure he got the Qibla line he already had been there he knew where the Qibla was he had seen the Qibla it's very easy to find a Qibla on on a building is it's either one of two walls it's either this wall or this wall or this wall or this I mean the same thing those two walls go the same direction these two walls just so you really only have to to choose from and it's always the longest wall all right because that's what the hot mosques are made they don't like churches ours are within a cross formation looking towards the front the Qibla and wants a long line of men who are standing side by side so the Qibla wall is either one direction or one direction 90 degrees off and so it was fascinating because he could find the kid was quite easily than what he would do is he would find that wall and he looked down from the from the space looking down onto it and then take the coordinates from space proving how accurate his material is so he used on his if you want to go up and question his material you can go up on his website the sacred city dot Canada on the website so go up there and look at it and look and see how he goes into it more specific than where I'm showing today now the tools here he'll in this site help you find every known early mas Qibla in the first 200 years of Islam go to data on his site and then early qibla tools and then also used the papers and the maps that are up there now for instance he says the Yamamah al Hajj mosque is completely covered with sin so how can we find the Qibla there's no wall to see anymore those who research this mosque then in covered it with sand but on dance site you can zoom in and find the original pictures of that mosque taken by the researchers and then see where the Qibla was as it is uncovered in the picture okay because Muslims are playing see how can you have known where the Qibla theirs it's all sin yes that is today but it was uncovered at one time and that's why he knows by looking and seeing when he was there when it was uncovered he knew where the Qibla wall was that at that time so another cut claim is that he was only looking at solstice lines so what he did when he first came out of his material he only had the Qibla lines and then he also had the Qibla towards Jerusalem the Qibla towards the Qibla towards Petra and the Qibla towards Mecca he has now added a another dimension which is these what they call the solstice line those that's the X they're those blue lines to show you that none of these none of these mosques follow the Solstice line that has been nothing more than a benefice allegation this is interesting is that to the Dome of the rock you're looking at right there there's the Qibla but that's not really the Qibla it's this little moss to the side that actually has the Qibla in it and that's the one you need to use so you need to know the history of all these places to know where there is so let's look at these mosques and let's start with this one here this is known as the Qibla teen mosque now many early mosques don't have tip lists to help us because they have been rebuilt many centuries later in the original floor plans the structures have been lost other mosques have been rebuilt but we can see where the original plans still are the Qibla Tomas Medina is a case in point we only know this Qibla here and so it's but it's called Qibla tain which means the mosque of two Qibla or in the name of the mosque you can see that that suggests that there was another Qibla at another time and was not till 1987 that they were enlarging the moss and as they started digging down to do the enlargement they came across an entire structure right here showing the first Qibla but take a look at what direction it's going it's going an almost exact opposite direction from the existing Qibla that's there today the Qibla 10 mosque is in Medina just north of Mecca today is directed towards Mecca but the earliest Qibla did not trek towards Mecca so where was it directed towards well if you pull back and you look and see see where it's directed towards now when it first went in 1987 when they thought they thought it was Jerusalem because as you can see it is pretty much going towards although it's about off by about a degree or two from Jerusalem but look what else it's more directed towards petra hold that under your hat so the Great Mosque of Guangzhou in Canton this is thousands of miles away this is in China look at the Qibla there it's directed towards petra there you can see if you look at the red line that's the or cake that's the qibla that's still there and that ma still exists today it hasn't been really destroyed or rebuilt in canton what week a long so is the Chinese name look at this mosque here in Chatham on now we're in India in six look at the date 629 Muhammad's still living at this time if he was living nonetheless according to their tradition he'll be living because he didn't die until 630 - so here's a mosque in fact when also this one here is 627 so this is while Mohammed still living so here you have moss at the time that Mohammed still living that are not directed tour where he's living if he was for Mecca they're too far north there are 600 miles they're directed 600 miles further north Chad Amman Masjid in India 629 directed towards petra jami hama al kabir of mosque in syria 637 now Muhammad is dead he's been dead for five years look where it's directed Petra now we go to Egypt the foot start mass remember the ones that the federal body and Creswell found in 1905 well they thought it was Jerusalem it was not towards Jerusalem Gibson founded they were actually directed towards that those mosques were directed towards the Petra the Dome of the rock there's the Dome of the rock right there now he has a question mark here because that really is not a Qibla and what's more that was built in 1918 I want to say 76 or 1886 so a little over a hundred years ago the Dome of the rock has been built and rebuilt 11 times so the outer structure that you're looking at including the dome itself we're a little over a hundred years old 100 over a little hundred years old they then put the qibla on that but that's it wasn't therefore the original structure that's why Muslims have hounded me on that I said okay but then take a look at the entire citadel which way is it directed straight towards petra we're gonna come to this mosque right here that's the alexa mosque built in 709 in the 8th century so that's built in sucks 91 this is built in 709 so now we're in the 8th century and look what direction it's facing petra not mecca you can't destroy it and rebuild it again that's the problem there whom I'm a mosque in Jordan built 699 so we're now at the end of the seventh century it's directed towards that truck the imam mosque in jordan swear we've been in syria we've now been in israel now we're into jordan we've been into india we've been into china all these mosques from all over the world facing petra now we're into the 8th century 705 were now to yemen a whole nother country this is the Grand Mosque in sana it's facing Petra the kid about alminia mosque in israel 7:06 it's facing Petra take a look at all these mosques I'm just gonna pull back pull back and now come forward notice where they're all coming in so these are the mosques that we've looked at coming from all over the world they're all coming right to Petra there's a map of them medina china india syria egypt israel jordan yemen all these countries these mosques from all over not one of them is facing Mecca they're all facing Petra up until 7:06 every mosque is facing Petra so far no mass has been found its facing anywhere else but Petra are you following that Muhammad died in 632 the mosque was canonized according to Islamic tradition in 624 so we're talking almost we're talking we're coming up with about 80 years later they're still all facing petra according to archaeological finds here's a look of looking down straight on them and you can see that all the 17 Petra gibbler's fall within a 45-mile dotted circle proving how accurate they were this will become important later on then in 706 a new mosque with a completely different Qibla was discovered and it's somewhere in between almost halfway between Petra and Mecca you get a new Qibla this is Qibla number two all right but there's nothing there that's curious hold on to that I'll show you why back in 708 another mosque this is in Iran it's facing Petra again the al-aqsa mosque as I said earlier in Jerusalem Israel 709 it's facing Petra like the Dome of the rock like the entire Citadel if you look at it you can see here here's the Alexa mas there's the Dome of the rock and you can see the Qibla is in the red it should be in black it should be going that direction it's actually come off by those degrees there now when you get to Damascus in Syria the Jomon Jimmy Jimmy I should have you read this because you're what does that say in Arabic so I don't dis interpret your language you Maui al Kabeer yeah Damascus seven right in between again here's the second one that's in between almost exactly the same place is the earlier one then we get the kid about Alma Jonathon Jericho and Israel back to Petra again can you see MEK let's go back here Mecca is the almost exact opposite direction can you see that right there that's Mecca today that's where the mosque is directed in the red line the anjaan Mosque in Lebanon in 740 Petra again the most mosque of Omar Basra Syria then we come to the in-between mark now we're in 721 were now almost a hundred years later still no mosque is facing Mecca al carbee mosque in Syria 7:26 in between it's not till we get to this moss 7:27 look at the date now we're over a hundred years later the first Moss we have been able to find it's facing Mecca the this is a third Qibla so this is now Qibla number three the first Qibla number one is Petra the second is in between the third is Mecca Mecca is introduced in 727 here's a custom gussa hierarchy mosque in Syria 728 it's in between the Amman citadel mosque Jordan 730 it's in Mecca now take a look at this I want you to look at this a little bit better let's look at this next picture remember right in 701 I said that this one down here was facing Mecca and it still is it's the older mosque in 701 that one faced Petra sorry did I say Mecca Petra that's facing Petra they then rebuilt this mosque up here behind it and above it that's 730 that's facing Mecca so something has happened between 701 and 730 both mosques are still there today so the evidence you can't destroy the evidence proving that something happened that changed the Qibla between 701 and 730 that's why this one's such a good one because you can see both mosques in the same area proving that there was a change of direction between 701 and 730 hold that under your hat the Jamil is like doing a mosque in Tunisia now we get a fourth Qibla all the mosques that he found in North Africa and in Spain or facing straight south parallel to a line that goes between Petra and Mecca Ruta - why for qibla petra in between Mecca parallel this is a four Cable number for Baalbek Mosque in Lebanon in between 740 Tomas Tomas in Amman Jordan 743 Petra again so here Petra raises its head again look at the date 743 this is 120 years after the because they the Qibla was supposed to have been canonized towards Mecca the Heron mosque in Turkey way up in Turkey in between not Mecca Casa Qaeda Cooper Ross there's one that is facing Mecca 764 the Rabat mosque in Tunisia remember I said all the ones in North Africa are facing parallel not in-between not Petra nor Mecca the Saharan de Bourgh mosque in Oman around 771 we know they don't know exact date for that that is facing Petra again the Somali Omani mosque in Oman around 771 it's facing Petra again so here's the still this hold out towards Mecca Petra why LaRocca mosque in Syrian 772 it's facing in between the be balsamic on in Uzbekistan way overnight it was Mecca Stan way off to these it's facing Petra possibly Jerusalem most people now think it's now Petra the Cordoba mosque in Spain like I said like North Africa it's facing parallel the jameelah even NAAFI the current in Tunisia again 836 836 this is the ninth century it's parallel it's not facing Mecca so here are the four qiblas the Petrin kibbles are always the earliest one up until 706 every qibla was facing petra then they start introducing a second qibla in between then you have the Meccan mosque which starts to be introduced in 727 and then the parallel mosques which are in North Africa and Spain that are facing parallel all the kibbles were facing towards petra in 706 there was confusion for the next hundred plus years 17 faced Petra eight are in between ten face Mecca six are parallel the Qibla was not finalized towards Mecca until 876 after eight 76-year talk about the late 9th century all the mosques then face Mecca but that's two hundred over two hundred forty years too late 250 years too late sorry so let's look at them those that's the first Qibla see how accurate they are Huck specifically they are coming right to Petra and look at their all over the world they're not all in one area all the way over in Guangdong Canton India here in the Oman in Yemen all the way up here maybe somewhat Connie in and it was Becka Stan so you can see these are not spit these are so specific but they're so accurate from such thousands of miles away how did they get it that accurate the second mosque then take a look how they come to one point but there's nothing there what's going on here and then you get the Meccan qibla starting in 727 then you have these parallel calculus which are up here in North Africa and in Cordoba this looks like a political statement to me hold on you'll see why so why are the Qibla is multi-directional mountain scholars assume that the variety of qibla directions were due to the inability of the ancient Arabs of finding accurate qibla direction its ineptitude is what they're saying they just weren't very accurate modern scholars simply quoted earlier ninth century Islamic scholars concerning this theory and that's the theory that David King has taken and that's his biggest theory is the ninth century scholars considered them that they were just inaccurate but once they got to the mecca they were much more accurate they assumed that the Meccan kimba's were the most accurate well let's take a look and see how accurate the Meccan gibbler's are when you look at they look at it according to the all the Petrin qibla they were 2.9 degrees of accuracy if you take out the two the ones of the tula take out the two words it's down to one point nine degrees off the in between were point less than a degree off they were by far the most accurate the Meccan ones were four point seven eight degrees off they were by far the least accurate so this whole theory goes off the window they didn't get better they actually got worse so why were the early Arabs so accurate modern Muslim scholars assumed the early Arabs were not and that they where they didn't have adequate mathematical abilities yet what really happened was that the Arabs lost their ability to define directions accurately because Roman roads were introduced which they use and thus they didn't need the Stars to guide them thus the ability to detect very accurate measurements became lost the earliest Arabs who built the earliest mosques use astronomy the study of stars to find one's direction not astrology the use of stars to tell the future they had to because the trip their trips across the desert was always across the desert where the sands shift and move and they would die if they didn't know how to find their way and what they would do is they would use these these type of things they would use to find the north and south they would always use the Northstar which never moves and they'd use the fingers or the camel a block of wood on a string which measured how far up and down the knots on a string where once that that block sitting on the horizon reached the north star so by pulling the string back they put it on their horizon there's the North Star and as they pulled it back as it hit the North Star than they knew where the knot was on that strain they knew exactly where the direction was something as crude as that yet saved their lives for East and West they needed to use a constant so they used the number of steps a man walked in order to arrive at his place they were going men traveled on foot while camels were used for carrying the goods as they walked they employed poetry which had a rhythm and a lot of number of lot of number for each poem so when they came to the end they would know how far they had reached and simply added up the number of times they had recited a certain poem thus the reason they chanted poetry as they walked they still do that today now you know why it actually saved their lives to chat this poetry and that's why poetry was so important for the early Arab especially those the traders now the use stars to find the direction they employed 32 stars which were used on a compass to know when they needed to go east and west from their location in relation to the North Star thus for instance they would walk towards naka there's naka right which is a star in the north western direction when they went for a certain number of strides depending on the poetry they were reciting they were use this port to do it 32 times and you'll get that direction going towards naka then they turn the other direction they went towards Altea for certain number of poet poems and you go and now go towards this direction 4/10 of this power of poems and in the eastern direction and so on and that's how they found their direction we don't do that today so we don't understand this but if you're in the desert where you better know how to do these directions accurately and that's why the earliest kimba's are the most accurate the later ones they no longer needed that because now they were using roads which had 'add mile markings on it so why Petra why is Petra so significance we'll take a look at where Petra is it's right at the center of all the trade it was the sanctuary City for the Nabataeans the Nabataeans did not have their empire they were traders so they were all over the world and they would have families that would stay in different cities in the different trading outpost therefore they did not have any Empire or any capital city but they did have sanctuary cities where they would keep tombs and they would have their temples there carved out of sheer rock you can see if you've been to Petra these beautiful carving that's a Treasury there these are the tombs in temples so it's the city of tombs in Temple for the Nabataean people and whenever someone died they would send the body back to Petra or Medina sali those are the two major cities of the Nabataean kingdoms and they would then send them back to have their bodies there and they would make a pilgrimage back to Petra 2 then were not worshipped but to honor their ancestors there so Petra was the center of the Nabataean Kingdom it was a center of the trading bloc the trading routes for all the trade north south east and west and it's still there today but take a look when you go to Petra notice that Petra is in a valley it has a parallel valley there's the valley there's the parallel valley it has a streams it has whole stream and in fact it has whole waterworks that have been created exactly what we're finding in the traditions it is outside outside the rooms would be a pillar of salt if there would be any pillar so it would be outside the ruins of Petra it has fields it is a place for the it has trees and grass and prom and fruit and clay and log everything that the Quran is talking about everything the traditions are talking about exists in Petra not in Mecca and it has all of trees the one thing you cannot find anywhere in the Arabian Peninsula you can find in Petra it has mountains overlooking the Kaaba so everything that we see these tradition even his sock in his sharm al tabari all I'm talking about this place where this prophet came from and they named it as Mecca in the ninth and 10th century everything they were looking at everything they're describing everything this book describes fits Petra doesn't fit Mecca what's fascinating Petra has all the items listed above thus could petra be the place they are referring to remember also the people up some wood 24 times refers to these people from thumb wood 23 times the people from odd since 7 times that people are meeting they're all up here around Petra so if you're gonna have any contact especially as a trader you'll have contact with all these people that would make sense if you're in Petra it would not make sense if your way down here 600 miles further down in Mecca so why is this significant let's review so far nothing is known of Muhammad until the late 7th century from within Arab sources his book the Quran is in its manuscript don't appear until the early 8th century his city Mecca isn't referred to until the mid eighth-century his biography and his sayings are not don't even appear until the late 8th early to late 9th century thus much of what we know of Muhammad is written down hundreds of years later and hundreds of miles away looks like he is nothing more than a later redaction possibly begun by Abdul Malik so can you now no I'd understand why Stephen Humphries who is a historian says Islam and the prophets life as we know it was not derived from the seventh century but he evolved over a period of two to three hundred years and then redacted back that means put back on the prophet's life and compiled in the ninth century so everything we've known about islam everything that i talked about from the very beginning that classical model is not from the seventh century it's from the ninth and 10th century you know hold on that's the next question york prophetic you want me to get into that so let's go into that we're not finished yet we still have another half hour so here are the questions we need ask why are there no Muslim sources for 200 years number one why do the claims they make not fit the 7th century historical record number two why are the geographical references so few in confused again why do they all seem to fit on area much further north why are so many references to vegetation which would not exist in Mecca and why is Mecca not even on the trade route why is Mecca not even mentioned till seven forty one nor included any Maps until 980 why do all the qibla face petra for the first hundred years well up until seven oh six then they are confused for the next hundred and aren't standardized to Mecca until eight twenty to two hundred years too late is it not surprising therefore that historians now consider much of what we know about early Islam is possibly historic historically spurious so getting to your points so what really happened now to make sense of this I'm gonna give you the scenario that we think is happening in may 2000 and nineteen it may change completely by the next year because new materials coming in all the time so be aware that this is only hypothetical alright for those watching this is hypothetical this is what Jay Smith is saying and others are now saying it but I'm gonna say it now on the camera so that you can honestly see where we're moving and where are we from everything we know so far this looks like what's happening to make sense of this we need to begin with Abdullah even Zubair who is well-known he was the governor of Petra during the time of Abdul Malik and Marwan before him you have two great empires that are being credit you have the Umayyad Empire which starts in 661 there are two families with nakooma id Empire you have the sufyani family that's from 661 up to about 680 and then the mud ones take over the mud when it's take over in 680 mud 1 the first is the first king his son Isobel Manik he's the second king he comes to power in 685 now remember up until that time the Arabs had destroyed the sassanids off to the east which is the Persian Empire and now their biggest their biggest enemy their biggest competitors are the Byzantine Empire to the north the sassanids were Zoroastrian the Byzantines to the north are Christian they have much more in alliance with the Christians because they trace their lineage back to Abraham both the Christians Jews and the Arabs trace lineage back to Abraham 1 through Isaac the other through Ishmael so they are cousins with the Byzantines they have nothing to do with as erasmus+ they have already destroyed the rest they're not really a problem for them Petra but look and see and let's just go to this map and then I'll come back to this take a look and see where their headquarters in so when you look at their headquarters here is Mecca down here right if as the classical account says that the Umayyads were headquartered down here then why is it that everybody knows that they weren't living down here they were up here in Damascus 1,200 miles further north what were they doing in Damascus why weren't they got in the hizz-ouse in Medina no one's asked that question before we're asking it so they're way up here in Damascus here's the Byzantine Empire up here and further to the west here's the Sassanid Empire over here now the assassins were destroyed by the Arabs coming up now and they took over and they took over boss at about Damascus Jerusalem and Cairo all these cities along here what they call the the Crescent the golden Crescent all those cities were destroyed by 652 they now control those great five cities of the Levant but all of the people that because they were nomadic there are Arabs they needed people to run the cities people who were literate so the best people that run the cities were the Jews and the Christians that live there because they were not only literate they were their cousins via Abraham so they made the mollies or mow alleys and that's well documented they became the ones that ran the cities the Arabs being nomadic didn't even live in the cities they didn't like they were not urban so they lived outside the cities in their own garrison towns Bush dot is the garrison town of Cairo over here so first up is the garrison town where they lived the Jews and the Christians ran the cities for them now here's the problem so from 652 up until 685 one of the mullet comes to power the Jews and the Christians had ran the cities but yet hold on a minute the Arabs were the ones that controlled it the Jews and Christians have a prophetic line the Arabs don't the Jews and the Christians have a scripture the Arabs don't yet you control now the Jews and the Christians but you don't have the identity that the Jews and the Christians have so what are you gonna do Abdul Malik knows that he's been in he's now he has seen 40 years of Arab dominance he now moves into Damascus he's taken over from his father he also owns all that swath of land from all the way from India to Andalusia which is Spain from Spain Dene he was under his control and yet he has no identity because he has no prophetic line there is no scripture to the Arabs they have no scripture so what are you gonna do you want to create an Arab identity hold on to that so he's up here in Damascus but his sanctuary is here in Petra because he's just taken over the Nabataean sanctuary which is the sanctuary that all the Nabataeans who from which he has derived his power their sanctuary is here and that's why all the mosques all lower from all over are facing Petra then in a 685 abdullah IBN zubair rebelled against him he is in petra he destroys petra and takes the black stone and flees to the south it's well documented black stone what's the black stone look at the antecedent it's a Nabataean it the black stone is where God's presence is when he takes God's presence out of Petra you can see this is a huge slap in the face to the Umayyads they have to come down and of course as he's coming down he something happens in Damascus someone is killed he has to return Zuba of the mark has to return back up to Damascus never finds even Jabbar so he goes to the south but we don't know where he goes to in the south we just know he goes to somewhere in the Hejaz now evens yeah abdullah evens about he needs allies against the great Umayyad empire so who does he look - well he looks over here to specify which is the archaic name for what is now called Baghdad so who's over here in so fun these are the original these are the Arabs who hardened they're left behind after the Sesana kingdom is destroyed they're the ones who are living in Stesha font they come to his aid because they hate the Umayyads because they're in competition with the Umayyads you have the Umayyads here you have the Abbasid here so they come and they become an ally with images about demons about it looks like and it looks like now that's where Mecca then becomes important because they now need to put the black stone in a place a new sanctuary so that's why Mecca was chosen but remember Mecca has no history we can't find any history for Mecca well why is Mecca chose it take a look at Mecca today look and see what Muslims do when they go to Mecca they go between these two hills back and forth seven times what are those hills for well they say that's where Hagar went to look for water why do you commemorate looking for water in these two hills when she never found any water she found it were the sums and well is according to the tradition why do you then circumambulate seven times around the Kaaba why do you go out to these three zoom rods and throw seven or forty-nine of numbers of seven stones at these three summits what are these I'm gonna these are Devils wait three I thought there was only one devil only one Satan what does this suggest to you looks like the Mecca was a pagan sanctuary a pre-islamic pagan sanctuary that did have similar that had enormous importance for the nomads in that period they have taken over that sanctuary they've taken the form and they put their own meanings on to it so now running back and forth between marwah and sulfa those two time those two hills now is to commemorate hagar trying to find water for ishmael and the zum-zum well there is where ishmael where the water came out so she could feed her son in 1900 BC in a city that didn't even exist in 741 AD but can you see than wide that has been taken over and now everything has been imposed on what is fascinating is now the Abbasid have their sanctuary while you have the who might have their pre-existing sanctuary so here's of the Manik he wants to create an identity so what's the first thing he does he poins coins he mints coins now before if you want to look at the the numismatic section in the British Museum you'll go back there and you'll see these coins these are Byzantine dinars there's a picture of the Emperor with two of his conscripts and on the back side of the coin is the Byzantine cross and that's a denote in the 7th century of the the sufyani is coming to power the model that we might but and they they're mint these coins which are very similar in order for them to trade they have to admit them very much the same coins so now instead of the Byzantine Emperor now you have the hail if mooyah with two of his retainers on either side on the backside there is the Byzantine cross but they've taken off the cross the cross piece can you have images on coins there's a problem with that that's obviously this is not Islamic because no Muslims will have image any image on any coin so what are they doing with images on their coins obviously iconoclasm was not a problem for the early Arabs but then remembered they weren't Muslims theirs they didn't refer themself as Muslims so then man when of the money comes to power and he takes off his image the first one is if that's of the Moloch right there with a sword and there's that Byzantine cross on the backside so here you have his coin minted between 685 up until 692 then in 692 he takes off the image and replace it with Arabic script and what does he have on that Arabic script can any of you read that can you read it Lila ilaha mohammed rasoolallah that's the Shahada that's the first time we see the Shahada introduced on that coin in 692 that's the first time we see Muhammad's name introduced on that coin by Abdul Malik in 692 look at the date 692 all right now let's go to the Dome of the rock meanwhile a year earlier he introduces and puts this building in the middle of Jerusalem why in the world does he put it in Jerusalem why does he put in Damascus the biggest structure of its day the best most responded building of its time using Byzantine architecture the ones who built it were Byzantines but look and see where he puts it he puts it above the church of the supply curve there's the church of suffering it looks down on to the church in the supply curve the church of the supplier is the sanctuary for the byzantine the Christian Byzantines that's where they go for their pilgrimage so he's coming into Jerusalem and basically he's saying we are now the new people on the block he goes to their sanctuary builds the largest building but it has no Qibla which is true it doesn't have a Qibla the reason why is because the entire Citadel is facing their Qibla it's facing Petra can you see what's going on now let's go one step further he employs the Byzantine architecture much larger and more prominent and sits above the Church of the Holy Sepulchre which is the Byzantine Christians sanctuary it is situated in the holiest city for Jews and Christians why should it should really be in either Damascus or Mecca unless of course he's trying to make a point here Muslims say it was built there to commemorate the Mirage the Night Journey of Muhammad going to the seven heavens in 621 go look at any of the ambulatory look at any of the inscriptions on the Dome of the rock you won't see any reference to the Mirage at all no reference so let's look at the inscriptions let's look now the Dome of the rock the only part of the rock of donor rock that is original are these two ambulatory these two circular colonnades all the rest has been rebuilt and built and rebuilt and destroyed eleven times so the only original part are these two so that's why you need to look at the inscriptions of there you need to look at the ones along they top all those inscriptions there along the outer ambulatory or revealing when you look at the inscriptions you will see sure for 171 oh people of the scripture that's us do not exaggerate in your religion nor utter up concerning Allah save the truth the Messiah Jesus son of Mary was only a Messenger of Allah and his word which he conveyed into Mary and a spirit from him so believe in Allah and his messengers and say not three seas it is better for you Allah is only one God for is it removed far as it removed from his transcendent Majesty that he should have a son who is that attacking Jesus the Trinity and his sonship right it's attracting his divinity the sense of a Jesus Christ and the Trinity all in one verse sure 17 I 11 is there praise be to God who have not taken unto him a son there's the sonship who have no partner there's the idea that God would have it there would be two gods God the Father and God the Son in the sovereignty nor hath he any protecting friend through dependence then you get Sura 1:12 there is no god but God there's the Shahada he is one he has no associates attacking Jesus there again say he is God the one God the attorney beside me sought of all he begetteth not nor was he begotten there is John 3:16 it's attacking and there is none comparable unto him Mohammed is a Messenger of God here where is where Mohammed is introduced a hundred years I'm sorry a year before he's introduced on the coins he's first introduced on the Dome of the rock this is the first reference we have to Mohammed anywhere in the world I'm sorry within Arab sources he is actually referred to in other sources outside of Arab sources like the doctrina Yacoubian 634 and The Chronicles of Ceballos in 660 but this is the first time that we see his name on any Arab inscription so here take a look and ask what does this have to do with the ménage this has nothing to do with the Minos this has everything to do with Christianity it's an attack against Jesus it's an attack against the Trinity it's an attack against the sons above God it's an attack against everything we believe these are the first Quranic verses we can find anywhere isn't that interesting on the Dome of the rock fascinating so let's move from there and you'll see what's going on so of daemonic introduces here his ire of identity in the guise of an Arab prophet beginning with the Dome of the rock it's larger than any other Arab structure its facing the Arab sanctuary Petra it incorporates descriptions against visiting Christianity it introduces their faith Islam it introduces their prophet Muslim and introduces their people Muslim and introduces their Prophet Mohammed meanwhile the careful protocols that were being studied by Yehuda Neville he was there looking at all these scale for protocols and he finds the capable protocols from the sufyani family up until the mutter Winnett family he finds no bismillah that we find in the Quran today he has finds no reference to people called Muslims in them no reference to any religion called Islam in them no reference to any man called Muhammad in them and no reference to any book called occur on which should be in all through these material because these are the first Muslims it should be replete with references to the word Islam to the word Muslims to Muhammad and to his book right nothing in any of the scale for protocols until 691 in 691 the Shahada is introduced into the paid Kaila for protocols overnight and then from then on every careful protocol starts with a Shahada introduced by Abdulmalik the same year that he introduces it on the Dome of the rock a year before he introduces it onto the coins so now you have the building the inscriptions the Caliph reporter calls and the coins now introducing an Arab prophet to the air of people replaces the image with Arabic skipping induces Shahada on those coins so once of the Manik introduces Mohammed then he needs to have an Arab revelation the this is why the earliest Quranic text are on the Dome of the rock 691 the earliest Quranic manner skits begin to appear during his reign the lower tax member I showed you the poem sister Sunnah that lower text probably comes from the last two decades the time of the monarch I was in power and you notice it is only 63 verses there are 70 variants in just those 63 verses so they have to wash it off and then right over top the upper layer is from 705 the 8th century that's the earliest text we have all the other manuscripts come after 705 oh I love this so the documentary evidence is supporting what we're now seeing in the archaeological evidence not only from the Dome of the rock but also from the documentary evidence of the inscriptions the earliest Quranic managers begin to appear during his reign the Quranic manuscript begin to proliferate during the reign of his son al walid from 705 to 750 then we see other manuscripts starting to appear why weren't they appearing at the time of with money in 650 - why are there suddenly appearing in the 8th century why so late because now they have a profit every profit has to have a book can you then understand when you put a book together you have to put her together hurriedly and where do you get your material from well you borrow that's why 70% of the Quran is borrowed from other sources mostly from Jewish apocryphal writings and Christian sectarian writings they borrowed the wrong material god bless them they should have gone back to the Bible why didn't they borrow from this book because this book was not in Arabic yet it had been translated into Arabic this was only translating they are the earliest document we have for the the Arabic Bible is 6 I want to get this right it's eight seven-inch 68 two years before of the al-balad e8 ninth century this was not translated into Arabic until the ninth century and that's the doctor the cine Atticus one five one which is in the monastery there in Sinai now fascinating so they didn't have the Arabic Bible to them to which to get their material from now can you understand the Quranic inscription begin to proliferate during his reign none of the manuscripts are complete nor are they parallel to today's Quran they continued to be changed and corrected by later caliphs up until to the 9th century the Quran is finally canonized at al-azhar university in Cairo just for Cairo in 1919 24 that's not actually should be 95 years ago but was not canonized for the whole world until 1985 just 34 years ago but can you see why then once you have the man once you have the prophet you need to have a revelation that's why the Quran had to be correlated that's why they had to have a crown in place quickly now at that time you have two empires that are created that come they're competing for an Arab sanctuary the Umayyads in the early Nabatean sanctuary in Petra is destroyed by an earthquake in 713 getting back to your question in 713 once there's an earthquake that which they totally destroys Petra then God's presence is no longer in Petra so that's significant so that pretty much weakens the ascendancy of the Umayyads and that's why really you can see now they know if they have no longer sanctuary they no longer have any theological legitimacy that's important thus a new place is needed and that's why Mecca is first noted in 727 possibly chosen by the rebel of the eben Zubair 687 as allies from Kufa the Abbasid in defiance of the Umayyads in petra the Abbasid and Zubair with their century in mecca then demand allegiance to the surrounding tribes all of those kibbles facing Mecca are those who allied himself with the Abbasid so this is a political statement I'll judge however remember our other judge is a governor in over in Kufa in 706 he rebuilds against a villain Malik well actually mud one because 706 a mud one comes to power Walid comes to the power excuse me in Walid he rebuilds in 706 against both and it is his mosques which are facing in between so he's demand that all the mosque faced not Petra nor Mecca because he's making a political statement he wants to see who's gonna win out who is gonna be the one he's being basically he is being clever this is what you do when you don't want to lie with either one you want to see who's gonna win out and that's why as a rebel he does not like of the demonic he does not like the mud one family and so his mosque or facing really a piece of desert in the sand no real significance other than their halfway in between now that's fascinating because they continue to face summer in between until he dies in 744 and when he dies his killers die with him that's the second Qibla those in North Africa and Andalusia don't show allegiance to either Empire so they have mas facing parallel they are waiting to see who's gonna win out and that's why all their mosques are facing straight self parallel to the line between Petra and Mecca when the Abbas is finally overpowered their minds in 749 most of the Qibla then face Mecca with a few holdouts until 822 after which they all face Mecca so the ones that you see that still come out after 749 are those who still have allegiance to the Umayyads but they're dwindling in power the opposites are coming out gaining in power so this is nothing more than a political statement so here's what the what if if possibility now that the Muslims have a prophet called Mohammed his name is now introduced in 691 a revelation the Quran which starting to be introduced in 705 a sanctuary called Mecca which according to documentation is not referred to until 741 but looks like it cut it comes in to exist in to existence around between 713 and 727 because the first Moss that's facing Mecca is 727 they then need a history now can you understand why the histories only begin to appear in the 9th century it takes them a hundred years to finally introduce the citta the biography of this prophet it takes him another two hundred forty years to contra Deus the hadith the sayings in 870 and then the toughs yet is introduced in 9 23 so by the 9th century they then have the book the man the place in the story and a new religion is formed and growing yet not something that was created in 22 years like Muslims like to tell us it took two to three hundred years to do this what did they do with all those that disagreed they eradicated and burned anything that disagreed with that narrative that's why you have wholesale destruction of other texts now that's actually inaudible hottie but how he does talk about that but he puts it at booth months time when he says that all those manuscripts were destroyed no it probably didn't ever happen there was no manuscript at the time it was blood but what he is saying is this is very clear the Abbasid then destroyed anything that disagreed with this narrative that's why you can burn books but you can't burn buildings and you can't destroy artifacts that's why the qibla is so damaging and that's why the problem with Mecca is even more damaging so summation why are there no Muslim sources for 200 years why do the claims they make not fit the historical record why are the geographical references so human confusing why do they all seem to be much further north and why are there so many references to vegetation which would not exist in Mecca and why is Mecca not mentioned until 741 nor included in any maps until 900 why is Mecca not even on international trade route why do all the qibla face petra stop until 706 then are confused for the next hundred years up until 88 22 and then finally canonized in around 822 to 847 two hundred years too late why what is of the monix role in all of this and does this not show that what he was introducing was a nascent Quran the beginning of the Quran of the Islam and the reason why he's beginning it because he's created an Arab I entity now can you see when you read the Quran you notice over and over again it says this is an Arab book in the Arab language for the Arab people now can you see why there's so much emphasis in Arabic now can you see why you can only read this in Arabic and why even as you know as an Iranian the Arabs are always elevated above all other people it's very it's very racist isn't it the Arab world always sees himself as superior because that Arab identity was kraid by abdul malik himself that's why the arab language then was introduced on all the coins in 691 as a script that became the script for all people in all places in all time so with that in mind what are we gonna do with Mohammed how should we critique him is considering this new information we now have about him since much of what we know about early Islam is in doubt since much of the Quran is also in doubt since nothing is known of Muhammad until late the late 7th century or Mecca until the mid eighth-century or his story until the 9th century hundreds of years later in hundreds of miles away can we therefore conclude that Islam is nothing more than a later redaction posture begun by Abdul Malik then continued by his descendants proving Muhammad had nothing to do with the Quran so who is he and what is his purpose it looks like Mohammed hell is the wrong man at the wrong place during the wrong thing at the wrong time but I like to end with Jesus how should we critique Jesus using the same historical criteria we use for Muhammad we know where Jesus was born Bethlehem we know where Jesus grew up Nazareth we know where Jesus died and then and when in Jerusalem we know what Jesus did for the last three years of his ministry we know this all from I winced account Matthew and John we know this all from hostile accounts even people like Dallas Tacitus and Josephus do talk about that death there on the cross we know when they were written between 15 and 60 years for that Gospel accounts in the New Testament we know that the few there that few doubt his historicity proving that we have the right man at the right place doing the right thing at the right time like with like so where to from here we must confront Islam's historical foundations I don't think we have a choice any other choice but to more than that we must challenge Muhammad in the Quran this material is too damaging and too important yes it is controversial yes it is confrontational we must demand that the same of all books not just the Quran not just the Bible the Upanishads the Vedas the Bhagavad Gita the Book of Mormon all have to go through the same tests that I've just given to Islam and we must bring it into the public sphere too many do not want this to be known like dr. Gerald Hutton he did not want me to go down to speaker's corner I said I'm not asking you to do it let us do it and really this is something that we have to do because we're the only ones that have an antidote that you're all hot things of pressure Crohn's have nothing to offer Muslims we do because the very same questions I've asked today of Islam have been asked of this book in am our Lord Jesus Christ we have answered every one of those criticisms we created the criticisms looking at the Bible looking at Jesus looking at early Christianity redacted criticism source criticism literary criticism historical because it would not exist without Christianity mostly done by Christian scholars can you then understand why we are the best equipped because not only do we understand the material better we are the only ones that have an antidote we have the only or alternative we need to bring them home [Music] you

Channel: PfanderFilms

Views: 240,235

Keywords: European Leadership Forum, ELF, FOCL, In search of Muhammad, Islamic History, Jay Smith

Id: ZZE_TXn3qxw

Length: 151min 30sec (9090 seconds)

Published: Sat May 23 2020