How to Write Addictive, Page-Turning Action (And Keep Your Readers up Until 3 AM)

we're sisters best friends and authors on a mission to help you stoke your creative fire and live the life of your dreams we believe that purpose fuels passion and that creativity is your secret weapon for mass construction there's never been a better time to bless the world with your dream realized you're listening to the kate and abby show what's up guys welcome back to another episode of the kate navi show today we're diving into a story mining episode we haven't done one of those in a while so we figured it was about time and the topic we're going to break open is something abby and i have spent some time chatting about over the past couple weeks um analyzing some of our favorite stories and also some stories that didn't capture our attention as much and analyzing what was it about that that worked and that that didn't on this topic which is action sequences action sequences in movies and what makes action meaningful and engaging versus low stakes and boring because let's face it can be one or the other if you have an action sequence in your story whether it's a screenplay a novel a play whatever it is it can either be extremely engaging you're on the edge of your seat waiting to see what will happen to these characters and how this battle or argument or fist fight will play out or you might be sitting back wanting to skip forward 10 seconds or skim through the page because you feel like it's so low stakes there's no suspense and you already know what's going to happen so what makes it one or the other how can we make an action sequence high stakes and super engaging so we're going to dive into that and give you some really great examples so if you're listening on another platform be sure to check out the video version of this podcast to be able to actually see clips from the films that we're going to be using as examples so that's what we're diving into today but before we get started we first have to thank our sponsors who are you guys you're the ones who support this show and keep it going and we so appreciate your support so if you get value out of this podcast go to patreon.com the kate and abby show and help us keep this podcast alive and free of interruptions okay let's let's dive into it i'm excited to talk about this because this is something you and i talk about a lot yes a lot lot especially after watching a movie or reading i know you don't read but i will i will complain to you about books that i read that are um just full of action that's not engaging right and whether you're writing you know for any storytelling medium whether it's film or books anything a story is a story and when it comes to action sequences there are a few things you have to get right in order to really keep your audience turning pages or you know glued to the screen clicking next episode five more minutes that kind of uh addictive quality right like when someone stays up all night reading a book it's for a reason it's not because it's low stakes and they it's predictable it's because you want to know what happens next you it has that addictive quality to it and i think that an action sequence done right action done right in a book or movie will have that addictive quality it will have that immersive meaningful engaging quality to it so what would you say is the number one key ingredient you already know internal conflict so i think a lot of writers sometimes overlook the fact that the intensity in the scene in the action sequence itself is it starts so far before the battle or the fight begins it starts with the internal conflict of the character yes because otherwise it's just plot driven like literally and i made a video about this one time about plot driven uh stories versus character different stories but what's happening literally in your brain when you're watching a plot driven movie usually with a lot of action sequences in it is just your near your mirror neurons are firing in your head and you are kind of experiencing vicariously the same suspense and stakes that the characters on the screen are experiencing but if that's it and it stops there and you like don't even care about them as people you don't understand what they're internally struggling with and what they're carrying around and what they believe and what they may mistakenly believe is true about the world and about themselves well then you're just kind of invested only as far as you can kind of understand what they're going through and what they are experiencing physically but not emotionally and so it's that syndrome of like you know turning on a movie when you don't even know what's going on and there's like an action scene well okay so if i watch this then my my mirror neurons are firing as if that's happening to me but i'm not putting myself into the shoes of the character really right and that's what makes it memorable too right long after the film ends or long after you've finished reading the book and you still think back to that sequence and like oh my gosh that was so intense now when it's just something that you're experiencing and you're like abby said your mirror neurons are firing because you're like oh if i experienced um you know falling off a cliff you know that would be scary that would hurt you know what i mean or if i experienced you know breaking my arm that would hurt and i can i can wince and realize like oh wow you know but i'm not going to remember that there's nothing memorable about that that will stay with me i'm just reacting kind of inwardly in my mind to what i would do if i was that character right whereas when i can tie into what the character is feeling based on their internal conflict that's been built up since go that's what makes it memorable yeah is seeing our favorite characters get broken that's what we all love and and um we can't experience that until you've established the internal conflict yeah first right before the battle begins before the fight so as we're talking about this you guys are probably thinking of some examples some examples of stories that do this well and also not well are probably springing to mind right now um i know that i notice it every time because it's like if you're not emotionally invested it's because the writer didn't take the time to build up who is this character what do they value what do they believe what do they want um how what is the point of conflict emotionally before there is conflict externally yes you know and that's the reason why we enjoy watching movies about like historical events too like that you absolutely know what what's gonna happen like titanic or pearl harbor you immediately know exactly what the events are going to be like the actual external plot driven stuff but the thing that makes you care is the characters and what what's internally happening with the characters and that's kind of what brings the personal emotional stakes um so it doesn't have to do with like you know oh i can't i can't reveal you know what might happen physically it doesn't even matter what happens physically what matters is who it happens to that's what we really care about um and so an example that kate and i were talking about recently that that we both watched recently is captain america civil war and how there's a lot of action sequences throughout that film and a lot of them are well choreographed and well designed but you don't really feel as intensely about all of the action sequences in my opinion as you do for the final sequence final battle between captain america and iron man which is kind of like the whole thing leads up to this crescendo moment and although there is internal conflict throughout the course of the whole film that's really the point where i would say the most internal conflict is yeah absolutely because we have obviously these two separate conflicts kind of coming together into like this boiling point moment did you know i didn't know it was him [ __ ] you know yes so we have the story with steve is protecting bucky and he cares very deeply for him so it's like this conflict here and on the on the opposite side we have tony who's just learned that his parents were killed by bucky inadvertently through a sequence of villains and a web of deception and right all that stuff all that marvel goodness this isn't gonna change what happened i don't care he killed my mom but we have two very personal conflicts there exactly and that's what makes it so intense it's emotional it's what it is and it's it's outside of just the realm of like do or die i'm on this side you're on that side that's what made it more emotional in my opinion is that it was like it's a personal emotional thing for each of them yeah and you could actually under you could understand the internal conflict of cap and you could understand the internal conflict of tony and that's what made it that clash be so memorable and it's actually intense to watch and that's one thing that even though abby and i enjoy marvel and i'm sure many of you do as well there's a lot of fight sequences and people sort of i've seen a lot of articles poking fun of they're like solo stakes because no one ever gets hurt hardly ever no one's gonna die you know they're all gonna make it out okay for the most part in in like 90 of the movies so when you add the internal conflict of the characters that's been built over time and you have these two characters clashing that automatically makes it higher stakes and more engaging than just hare's the hero in combat with a bunch of red shirt guys we call them which is kind of a for some of you who have watched star trek the original series you always knew when they get off at a new planet and there's the guy in the red shirt who has no name and you've never seen him before it's like that's the character that's gonna die and you don't care that he died because you don't even know who he is you know what i mean yeah that sounds terrible but it's like they they don't want it to be any of the characters you care about again none of those characters ever get hurt it's just the red shirt guy so that's the thing is they they use that because they don't want to spend a lot of time on it it doesn't matter so when you have your main characters you don't want your main characters to feel like you know they're just in battle with red shirt guys you want it to be no this is meaningful and i can't wait to see what happens next not just like pew pew smash cgi and or if you know it's in a book you know just nameless villains coming at them out of the ether that we don't care about these villains there has to be more than just the heroes internal conflict there has to be who are they battling why why is that meaningful to them and why is it meaningful to the villain yeah and when you have those ingredients together especially when it's not a villain and that's one of the things that was great about this conflict in civil war was even though there was a villain involved it wasn't the villain they were battling they were battling each other two heroes that hero battling hero that's like ah so much good conflict there and that's what made it stand out and be so iconic right when a bunch of other action sequences had followed it but this one was obviously much higher stakes much more on the edge of your seat waiting to see what happens next yeah for sure and so that's that's what you have to take the time to set up i think when you're when you're planning on writing something that's kind of this climactic confrontation is take the time because a lot of times that will be towards the third act of your story anyway but take the time to really build up what is the emotional um core really at the heart of all of this because it has to be very basic and emotional that's that's what makes us care at the end of the day definitely um and you're right it requires setting up like so if you're in the middle of writing a novel don't wait until that climax at the end the big battle at the end to start developing why it's going to matter to the character and to the person or the force or the event or whatever it is that they're battling we have to understand why that means something to the main character and that's what's going to have us on the edge of our seats that's what has us reading till 3 a.m yeah 100 which kind of leads us into our our next story example which is around the world in 80 days and we're drawing this example from the bbc series that recently came out i think last year which is such an awesome adaptation of the story i love it so much and um just the acting the the the production design itself is fantastic but the characters are so on point and so well written and right from go right from the first episode basically like the first 10 minutes of the first episode you learn all three of the main characters internal conflict you have fog i'm going to circumnavigate the globe in 80 days passport two i've been sent by the agency mr your new valet and miss fix would your readership really suffer a mass coronary if they discovered a woman had written this and they're all going on this adventure together and they all have personal stakes in fact i'm going to be talking about this in one of my askgabby videos soon but they all have personal stakes in the adventure to go around the world in 80 days and it's interesting to watch each of their journeys because you know that they each have a different reason for being there so for fogg it's kind of about the wager with his frenemy uh long time in front of me and the fact that he has been like kind of stuck in one place forever and is tired of being just the same old thing all the time just like experiencing the same thing day after day has something happened for nothing's happening not for years i'll start today and kind of challenges himself and creates this bet that he can circumnavigate the globe in 80 days and his friends are like huh you can't do that what a joke he's like okay want to bet and then creates this wager 10 000 parts what 20 000. with an excellent example of an inciting incident too like yes just such a good the way it was timed the way it was executed really good and meanwhile we have miss fix who is the daughter of one of his friends um and she's trying to kind of break into the publishing world and be taken seriously as a writer all right i'm not worried it's just my first credit that's all nothing remotely important and she sees this as her first opportunity to really write seriously and be have her writing be taken seriously so she kind of like coerces to get to be part of this trip and on and simultaneously we have passpartout who is a character who really feels like he doesn't have a place in the world he's always traveling always moving on kind of leaving responsibility behind you deserve much more than me find a good man a man who wants to settle down it's for the best sherry and we see that he really wants to feel like he belongs and he wants friendship and connection but he's kind of standoffish and kind of afraid to trust people and so we see his internal conflict right away and then we have them all three together on this adventure like okay some things you know something's gonna happen a lot of stuff happens throughout this the course of this story but what's so interesting that to me really creates a good sense of action and suspense throughout is that there's the ticking clock yes you know literally i mean the introduction is so great too the intro to the show yeah on zimmer and just the actual ticking but you have so much chemistry you have actual chemistry between these three characters that you're like you just can't wait to see the the conflicts that are going to arise out of their own internal conflicts because you can see that they're all ticking time bombs of things that are going things that are inevitably going to go wrong conflicts that will arise things challenges that they'll have to overcome and it's all going to stem from their internal conflict as a trio yeah exactly and we know that they're each going to go on you know internal journeys that's the point is the internal journeys not just the external journey which to me this is just a great this this series is such a great example of pairing the external journey with the internal journey because every episode has like kind of character arcs for all three of them right which is really fascinating and but some of the action scenes that's what we're talking about action scenes um some of the action scenes are very well executed because it it ties the internal conflict into the action itself so like one of our one of our favorites is the episode where they're in the west the west of america wild west and it's i love also how each episode has like its own vibe which is so cool and unique but in that episode um i feel like i've been rambling too much so why don't you go into it yeah in this episode they're like there there's a huge like showdown where they're fighting off the villains basically of that episode the bad guys that have been kind of trying to track them down in this episode and they have this huge like showdown in the old saloon so if he's going to do this i just want him to be prepared just be prepared [Music] and there's a ton of action going on and it's all driven from internal conflict because the way that they're all reacting to it you just are on the edge of your seat waiting to see what's going to happen next you know what's at stake yes that's that's kind of the thing actually that's like that's what i meant about like the ticking clock thing is like that's like such a um important uh component of the story is like the ticking clock like we have to get back to this place at this time on this day right and so anything that you know we we are simultaneously seeing the antagonist kind of trying to slow the mission down right so that fog will fail and so simultaneously we see that conflict happening and then every time it's oh no we're going to see a conflict and a challenge that comes up you see why it matters to them right and why this whole journey matters to them and those two things paired together make it so intense every challenge that they face and every conflict that comes up so when there's an action sequence you are so rooted in you're anchored in these three characters and you understand how they're going to react you're like waiting to see how they're going to react and their their chemistry together is amazing and so you're it's kind of almost a form of suspense anticipation you're waiting to see you're like oh i think this is what's gonna happen now if we didn't know that if we weren't that rooted in these characters and we didn't have that basis there wouldn't really be much suspense yeah and that there wouldn't be any consequences exactly i think the consequence thing is honestly like a huge part of it is like yeah there has to be consequences is there a consequence to whatever if if this goes wrong or if the characters lose or fail what's gonna happen you know and if we know what the consequences are and they're as real and high stakes to us as they are to the characters suddenly you are way more immersed in the action yeah you know and i feel like that that show did a great job of really encapsulating like here's the stakes here's the ticking clock here are the consequences if we fail yeah exactly and then why it matters uniquely to each of them rather than just them all having the same reason right they each have a different reason yes and they all it all corresponds together it's really phenomenal and so that's a great example of that those principles that we're talking about working so well in something that's not a big um action-packed fantasy or sci-fi if you're not writing something that's like a marvel film and you're like how do i make this action meaningful and feel really intense it's not so much what's happening on screen because how many times have you watched some um type of like action movie that you're like oh i just want to like skip through these sequences that's not action that's captivating our focus and attention then so that it's not even the action itself that's making it intense what makes it intense is when we feel for the characters and you can do that in any genre and that's why we picked kind of a plethora of different genres to show you here because it doesn't have to be some high-stakes space adventure in order for us to feel the drama of these action sequences it's all about feeling for the character and why it matters to them now that's honestly why you see why you don't see it as often in those genres i think is because a lot of writers rely so much on the genre or the plot or like the world the world building and the magic and they rely on that to be entertaining and forget about the fact that you have to you have to capture the audience's curiosity you have to make them care you have to engage them emotionally before anything else can matter now magic can be cool setting can be cool um but it has to come from there has to be something at the core you know right like we've talked about in a previous episode too like starting from the lens of the character like super uh uh macro i think is right word and then working your way out rather than starting way out here with the universe and the world and the structure and the society and the government and now the character like start us with the character and then work us out from there to the government the society and the world and the magic and the universe and it let us experience that through the characters rather than seeing that first yes but that's kind of a whole different topic but but but there you go there you go the world building tips but we did another episode uh i think we did an episode about world building yeah uh if i can find it i'll link it below but in the inaudible non-committal linking in the description um also i think another another thing to address here with action sequences is making it feel like like there's progress being made and there's a choreography involved it's not just the same thing over and over again and i know that can be tricky to navigate um but i think there are there are a lot of examples of it done well that when you notice them definitely take note of them and pay attention to okay what is it about the choreography of this scene that makes me engaged with every moment right everything is slightly different it's changing cause and effect something's moving forward it's not just the same thing over and over again right you don't have the urge to like fast forward because it's or skip through paragraphs because it feels like the same thing over and over again um and kate and i both both concur that a great example of this actually a lot of a few examples of this that are really great are can be found in um the chronicles of narnia absolutely yeah um particularly an example we were thinking of like the first the first movie the final battle in the first movie the choreography of that is fantastic also the choreography of the raid on the castle scene in prince caspian is like exactly what i'm talking about here with like something is unique and special about each scene each element of it um and there's like that feeling of cause and effect like there's a choreography to it i don't even know how to describe it other than that because it's like every movement matters and it brings you seamlessly to the next movement um but particularly in the final battle scene in the first narnia film we have a lot of internal conflicts happening at the same time with our four main characters the pembensees and how they react and respond to what's happening in the battle is really what engages us about it and like pulls us in and the thing that's unique about it too and something super important to remember when writing any action sequence but especially with fantasy and high fantasy is the big obtuse fantasy battle that's like you know huge big scope we're out in a big environment with lots of people involved sword fighting and clashing armies that whole vibe can be this massive scope we're using a super wide angle lens to get all this but if we stay at that point where it's it's really zoomed out that's what makes us want to skip ahead like okay okay okay when do we get back to the main characters so we have to anchor i like to call them anchor points and in the first uh narnia film and book but we're kind of pulling more from the film here um in the final battle we're really anchored with peter and edmund and that's really where a lot of the conflict lies is between the two brothers who have had you know not seen eye to eye this whole time edmund had the whole betraying everyone for turkish delight issue and then peter was a little angry about it understandably and so now edmund's gonna basically you know make a big sacrifice on the on the battlefield to help save peter's life from the white witch who's like turning everyone into statues so at that moment that action is so intense it's it's stan it's the centerpiece of the whole battle and you can see the way they choreographed up to that moment that big crescendo of when peter sees edmund sacrifices life to save him [Music] and you feel it in your chest it's so good you're like oh my gosh this is so intense so um immersive and the reason why it feels like that is because we've watched this slow build up with all this goodness all these different layers between peter and edmund and also their individual respective internal conflict why this battle even matters to them personally not just to narnia not just to the world they understand that aspect of it but also they have a personal stake in this yes they have a personal stake in this and they understand what that is and you as the viewer it just adds it's that frosting on top that just um makes it chef's kiss it's the character arc yeah you know it's the character's transformative moment and it's kind of like the aha moment and the climactic confrontation like all wrapped up in one and that oftentimes is such a winning recipe for a really memorable climax is to encapsulate your character's turning point their real like transformative moment in that ending crescendo whatever it may be and it might not be a final battle it might not be um an action sequence or a fight of any kind it might just be a personal thing for them and that moment of conflict like the biggest moment of conflict that this whole thing's been building up to it wouldn't mean anything if we hadn't had that build up like you're saying and so those moments are so important early on to capture and to pay attention to crafting that conflict as we go along making it super emotional for the final battle because that's and like you were saying even if it's not a battle or a fight it could it's really the challenge the character rising to the challenge whatever that is whether it's an enemy or whether it's something within themselves that they've been fighting this whole time to overcome and actually all these principles we're talking about a great example of it in a like kind of way subtle method is the film the king's speech which is a perfect example of using all these elements but applying it to someone overcoming a personal challenge in this big moment of internal conflict for them yes so you can take all these principles even if you're like hey i'm not writing anything that has like big action sequences like that you can make that work for your character's internal conflict rising to the challenge and overcoming the obstacle that stands in their way even if it's something in their own mind yeah that's so true and that's really what's at the heart of every scene that has any level of intensity that we're kind of on the edge of our seat or there's some sort of suspense that's really what creates the suspense is you have you personally have like an emotional investment in it you know it's not just that you care about the characters it's that you can feel what they feel i mean that's the empathy that we want to create between the reader and and the character exactly and there are many ways that you can do this for sure like we've been discussing um but another example our final example is another kind of contemporary not contemporary but like historical realistic fiction um which is the series poldark big surprise we talk about this all the time i do anyway i've used it as an example a lot yeah a lot of you guys have watched it based on a recommendation which makes me super happy because it's such excellent writing such excellent story telling it it nails so many things so just case study it especially the first two seasons yeah for sure there's quite a bit of action in the show but um there are a particular like few scenes that to me are like more intense than others um and usually they're not even like the most action-packed technically speaking right um one of my favorite action scenes fight scenes i guess is between our hero character ross and the villain character george and they're kind of always at odds throughout the course of the series um there's a lot of conflict between them for myriad reasons but there comes a point i think it's in season two it's somewhere in like mid the middle of season two where we have this conflict going on between ross and george because of ross's cousin francis who is very much involved in his family and it's kind of like there's been conflicts building up to this point and uh ross has seen how george has like tried to come between the two of them and kind of create this mistrust and kind of sabotage their relationship as cousins and as friends and ross has finally come to the point where he's like he's going to go into business with francis they're on good terms suggesting we go into partnership yes and he encounters george and george sees that like oh no my plan is like being foiled sort of thing and he just throws in this dig to really get under ross's skin and reveals the fact that in the past francis once betrayed ross's trust by revealing some aspect some secret aspect of his business which later helped to destroy his business it was all like this master plan that george had going but he kind of reveals in that scene like francis sold you out basically and it's like this this uh this pin being pulled out of the grenade moment where we feel like this intense suspense and like tension in that scene i think um that is so well crafted and it's well crafted because we've built up these characters we've understood their relationships i suppose you know where francis got the money he's investing yes and we're very much obliged to george yes we paid it in for services rendered in exchange for the names of the khan more copper company shareholders 600 pounds or should i say 30 pieces of silver both on a personal and professional level and we understand like what's at stake and why george wants to sabotage ross and how ross has these mixed emotions already and it kind of escalates into this fantastic brawl right this great fist fight in the um in the pub and it's just a well choreographed scene but it's so intense not just because like you know these two characters hate each other and they you know start beating each other up it's way more than that it's like this build up of their characters and there's such there's so many reasons for the hatred reasons why it's boiled up to this point and why we understand why that has happened for each of them it's not just like oh they hate each other so you know they'll just beat each other up this is this fight is gonna happen because like we need it to happen because it's been 10 minutes since the last action sequence you know what i mean so there and that's what makes us feel it is to have watched many episodes of this slow build and also seeing the betrayal moment way earlier and waiting when is that bomb going to get dropped so little for my interest why should i care for his and you can use suspense yeah you can use that as suspense that will add to your action sequence when you use suspense to like when is that going to be revealed when is that going to just blow up in someone's face and cause this massive conflict that we've been waiting on the edge of our seats to like oh when are they going to find out you know what i mean right yeah that's another thing that can make action so much more intense because you're waiting for it yeah you know it's like it's like getting the answer to your question like instead of i always say that about world building like don't answer my questions before i ask the question um like let me ask the question and then offer the answer because that creates more curiosity you know and you were talking about this recently on and ask abby too about like suspense versus surprise yes when we're anticipating a conflict versus just oh here's a conflict yeah it's it makes it so much more intriguing so much more submersive when we're like oh we know that that's right around the corner yes and again you can use this in more of a laid-back story it doesn't have to be a big fantasy it can be something that's a contemporary something that's like oh this this character knows this secret about this character and now we're like waiting to see when that's going to be revealed and that's my favorite cause some cause some issues cause some external conflict it's always internal conflict leading to external conflict never the other way around i think that's a good way to remember it because if it's if you're expecting external conflict to create internal conflict and make the reader care about the characters it's not going to what's going to make us care about the action and the external conflict is being rooted in these characters and we're rooting for these characters that's what makes us be on the edge of our seat waiting to see what's going to happen next for sure 100 so i think we covered a lot in this episode just to recap set up the character's internal conflict first this is what makes action sequences meaningful because there has to be that central point of emotion there has to be that reason we care because we care about what the characters want and what they're afraid of and what they what they mistakenly believe is true you have to create those ingredients before you throw the action-packed plot at them anchor us with one or two characters in a big fight scene and keep the fight intimate not too broad not too chaotic otherwise we feel more detached from it we don't care as much use internal conflict to make even small action sequences meaningful such as fistfights or even just verbal arguments like what is really at stake here what do the characters believe is true and how have their pasts and past experiences kind of built up to this moment and remember of course last but not least it's not about what is happening but who it's happening to that's what we really care about at the end of the day and that's what makes action intense yeah for sure so hopefully you guys took some notes hopefully you enjoyed this episode definitely comment below and tell us what you thought we'd love to hear your feedback and tell us some other great examples of stories that you love that have great action scenes in them that are character driven not plot driven and that really make you care and leave you on the edge of your seat we'd love to hear about those so definitely drop those in the comments below if you haven't seen the video version of this podcast you can find that at kate's youtube channel which is youtube.com kamens and you can find tons more writing resources on my channel which is youtube.com abbyhammons um did you want to did you want to give an update about your book yeah it's coming out soon it is my book my next book is coming out september 20th so if you want to check out my website or some info about the launch be sure to look in the description of the youtube version of this podcast because you'll be able to find information about when my book is launching you'll be the first to know when it does launch it's also a great time to grab the first book in my series the blood race if you are unfamiliar with my writing or haven't had a chance to grab any of my books feel free to do that you can also get my prequel for free which is a wonderful way to start the series as well abby has an amazing of two amazing books out yeah i have uh two books one's a sequel to the first one but i'm i'm working on writing a new one or editing a new one that's going to be published soon but in the meantime if you haven't read 100 days of sunlight go check that out so the link will be in the description as well and abby and i are actually co-writing us a new series we're on the cusp of finishing book two so if you want to be on the waiting list for that book when it launches talk about action hmm meaning meaningful action sequences that will keep you reading till three a.m i think we've succeeded yeah in writing quite a few of those so if you're someone who likes hmm things that are high stakes action adventure with like suburban fantasy thrown in some paranormal aspects thrown in great relationships awesome chemistry just fun action-packed adventure and mr sarcastic banter sarcastic banter mine and abby's writing you're going to really enjoy the series i think it's safe to say you'll enjoy the series so if you want to get on the waiting list we just launched a landing page that you can go to punch your email in and you'll be notified as we make progress on this book so if you what maybe we'll do stuff in the future like i don't know advanced readers oh yeah for sure you guys will be the first so you guys will be the first to join the advanced reading yeah so if you want to hear updates if you're like oh yeah i'd be interested in that when you guys are ready then get on that email list because that's how we would reach out to you guys and we would love to start inviting you guys to be part of this journey so check all that out find our books best way to support us as writers yes and if you want to support the podcast and keep it interruption free sponsorship free go to patreon.com the kate and abby show thank you guys so much thank you all to all the patrons over there who help us keep this show alive and free of interruptions we love you guys so much thank you for listening and until next time stay stoked and rock on

Channel: K.A. Emmons

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Id: 4lnZVq1Czkg

Length: 42min 17sec (2537 seconds)

Published: Tue Aug 23 2022