how to write complex and RELATABLE anti-heroes (with story examples)

we're sisters best friends and authors on a mission to help you stoke your creative fire and live the life of your dreams we believe that purpose fuels passion and that creativity is your secret weapon for Mass construction there's never been a better time to bless the world with your dream realized you're listening to the Kate and Abby show what's up guys welcome back to another episode of the Kate and Abby show today we're talking about everyone's favorite anti-heroes we all love anti-heroes I think oh yeah me and Kate love anti-heroes love writing them I love reading about them and and it's like a great um a great way to really explore internal conflict I think people are drawn to them for their complexity yes there's so many complexities that can go into crafting a really cool anti-hero because we're not dealing with a villain but we're not dealing with a hero either we're in this interesting in between area where you can actually pull from both dynamics of villains and heroes to create this one very interesting complex person that actually many of us can identify with because who can't identify with you know struggling to make the right choices having flaws that reflect um that that you will change your choices and influence how you're living your life and dealing with just everyday struggles a lot of times that's I think what we're really attracted to in anti-heroes is their relatability yes and Intrigue yeah lots of layers lots of layers complexities to writing anti-heroes I love writing anti-heroes and I think um what most people think of when they think of anti-heroes is like the basic rule is kind of the character that's too good to be bad and too bad to be good so they're kind of in this morally gray area where they're neither the hero nor the villain like Kate was saying but there's more layers to it there's more complexities to it and that's what we're going to explore in today's podcast and we're going to be unpacking lots of different story examples examples of anti-heroes that Kate and I know and love from stories from books and film and also just kind of taking apart like the different layers of what makes an anti-hero what makes them so complex and conflicted and makes us root for them even though they're morally gray and and they do have issues we still want to see them win what is that um so kind of digging into the psychology of it but also how to improve your own anti-heroes so super excited to dig into this topic today but first before we get started we have to thank you guys who are our sponsors you are the ones who support this show you keep it going you help us keep it free of interruptions and sponsorships and we so appreciate your support and your love for the podcast so if you get value out of the Kate and Abby show go to patreon.com the Kate and Abby show to help us keep this podcast alive and free of interruptions so we appreciate every single one of you guys so much and also when you join the patreon you get access to hang out with Kate and I monthly on live streams so each month at the end of each month we do a special hangout live stream and in that live stream we get to talk with you guys more closely and sort of a close small group setting on the live stream and answer your questions and you guys can request podcast episode ideas we kind of just use it as a fun time to connect with you guys and have better conversation it's a really fun time so definitely consider checking that out all tiers get access to the monthly Hangouts so you can join the patreon at any level to get access to the Hangouts we hope to see you guys over there okay let's get into it so number one trait of an anti-hero as Kate and I were preparing for this podcast we were kind of thinking about the concept of anti-heroes and flawed Heroes and trying to find the nuanced differences between them because we did a episode about writing flawed Heroes and that was a really good episode a story mining episode so if you guys haven't seen that we'll link it below um but kind of considering the differences of like okay well you have a hero with flaws and like internal conflicts and they make mistakes so how are they different than an anti-hero and I think the biggest difference is that an anti-hero character knows what they're doing is morally wrong but they do it anyway right like with knowledge of the fact that like going into it they're like I know this is wrong and I know it's gonna hurt people but I'm still gonna do it anyway so I think this is like the number one distinguisher between an anti-hero and a flawed hero because we're a flawed hero will act out of weakness and their fatal flaws the anti-hero is still acting out of their fatal flaws but they're like fully conscious of the fact that what they're about to do is going to be impacting others negatively but they do it anyway right so in many cases it's that the motivations are different yeah the driving force behind it and obviously not all cases but in many and especially the examples we're identifying here is that they're coming at this um this battle plan of theirs from a place of selfishness yes fundamentally even if they don't consciously recognize it they because they are constantly making choices that better them even if it hurts others It ultimately makes their decisions selfish whereas a flawed hero May struggle with making the choice but will ultimately make a decision that will help other people or at least not hurt them or put them In Harm's Way right where so we have that moral compass that will be much stronger for a flawed hero who may struggle with decision making but won't consciously make the wrong decision that will hurt other people right exactly so true and I feel like you did an amazing job of this in your Sparrow series with the character of Aaron Price who is probably my favorite character in that series and he's like just such a classic morally gray very internally tortured character he's definitely an anti-hero because he's not like the villain but his actions and decisions we can see are born from this place of like deep internal conflict and this struggle to belong and to feel like he has this place in the world and he's kind of always felt like an outcast in a way um because of his powers because of his history and his past and so much good wonderful backstory for his character but we see him go about doing the wrong things right for what he thinks are the right reasons and that's kind of like the qualifier I think is like can your can your character who's an anti-hero like reason with themselves of like yes I know that what I'm about to do is gonna be harmful and maybe hurtful to people but I have to do it for XYZ reasons like there are there's a reasonable explanation for why I'm doing this and the ends justify the means you know and I feel like Aaron's character does that a lot in the sparrow Series where you see him like kind of manipulating sparrow and using her to his for his own ends and his own gains but at the same time he's kind of torn by this love he has for Sparrow too and it's like you see the battle inside the character and when you see the battle happening that's like what makes you fall in love with them I think because you see that they do have a heart deep down right you know exactly yeah and and it also creates not so much justifying what they're doing but it creates understanding for the reader because in the case of Corporal Aaron Price his character in The Sparrow series he has to make this impossible decision over because of his superpowers he's invisible to everyone on earth except for this one person who is Sparrow so does he keep her for his own selfish reasons or does he let her go for you there's a lot lot more complexity to it than that but that's the very basic premise here and because we see his pain of never being able to be seen by anyone and we start to imagine what would that be like to have to live in existence like that so we can almost understand the pull and the Allure of wanting that yes wanting to keep that one person who can see you even if it's um through means that aren't necessarily good or they're very selfish reasons but we can understand why he's struggling with it so even though it doesn't justify this these selfish behaviors that the character is exhibiting we understand the struggle and that's a that's a big part I think of what makes us as human beings who struggle and deal with flaws and conflicts to to relate we we get it we relate we're like oh yeah that's tough it's actually a similar struggle to um and I know this is an example that we've written down but this just came to my head is like Chris Pratt's character in the movie Passengers very similar conflict and like you know okay we're on the spaceship I'm the only ones who who's awake and am I going to wake up Jennifer Lawrence's character I can't remember either of the characters names I think her name is Aurora right so am I going to wake her up even though I know there's no way to put her back to sleep and the spaceship's going to go off into space for 80 years and and he has to make but we see how much he's struggling it's so devastating to watch and it's like oh we can feel just how gut-wrenching it is imagining Us in the place of that character so even though the action itself not really justifiable because it's like you know you're you're doing it for selfish reasons but we can understand why the character is doing it and that that's what creates that connection and it's the same with Corporal Aaron Aaron Price's character in The Sparrow series is we we see throughout the two books searching for sparrow and Sparrow Rising how tortured and lonely this character is when we start connecting with those qualities of loneliness and and anguish those are very basic Primal human experiences that we can relate to and connect to with our own experiences and we can understand what's driving this character forward and that is part of what makes them not seem like a purely evil villain right because it's not just like muha I'm doing this because I want to be evil it's actually they're they're dealing with their own suffering button all the wrong ways yes exactly and that's one of the things I think makes anti-heroes compelling and strong characters stronger to more compelling to read about in a lot of cases than the heroes because it's when you are developing an anti-hero A lot of times you are putting way more focus and attention on what they want and why they want it because you're digging deep into the the reasons why why would somebody be motivated to do something that's morally wrong to achieve this end so I think that's what makes us love them so much is because their goals are so clear their motivations are so clear and it's easy for us to connect the dots and see how their internal conflict relates to their mission it's like very clear and very obvious and another um morally gray or anti-hero character that immediately comes to mind is Dimitri from Anastasia who's probably like one of my favorite anti-heroes because we very well we grew up watching Anastasia loving that film and just the the hate to love romance is fantastic also but Dimitri's character how he's kind of just like going about getting what he wants in all the selfish ways he's basically using Anastasia or Anya to get all this money from her grandmother who he doesn't even think is her real grandmother until he finds out at the very end in fact oddly enough we're going to Paris ourselves ah and I've got three uh well this one is but I've got three tickets here uh unfortunately the third one is for her Anastasia [Music] the motivation is basically like I want to be free I want this money and that's kind of like that's kind of the clear goal like and as he continues down the path of like conning this woman into believing that Anya is her granddaughter and her long-lost you know relative that she's been looking for this whole time and that whole ruse that whole manipulation that's set up we can clearly see why he's doing it and it makes sense you know the the ends he thinks the ends justify the means look I think we got off on the wrong foot well I think we did too okay but I appreciate your apology apology who said anything about an apology I was just saying please don't talk anymore okay it's only gonna upset me fine I'll be quiet I'll be quiet if you will all right I'll be quiet fine fine fine but slowly as time goes on he begins to have a character Arc and we're going to talk about character arcs in a little bit but that's another great example of like an anti-hero with very clear goals and very clear objective and we can see why he's doing what he's doing like it's it makes sense you want no reward not anymore why the change of mind there's more a change of heart I must go and another example that comes to mind which is very similar actually I was contemplating how similar this is is Flynn Rider from Tangled um because he's kind of even though he ends up being heroic at the end of the story he starts as kind of an anti-hero I can't believe that after all we've been through together you don't trust me [Music] ouch where he's a thief he wants to you know make money and and be free again like Dimitri um and of course not work for it he wants to steal it where is my Satchel I've hidden it it's in that pot isn't it so he ends up having this transformation of course where he ends up helping Rapunzel and falling in love with her and then risking actually sacrificing his life at the end to save her but in the beginning we see the stakes are clearly set of like she has the precious crown that I need to sell to make money to be free to have the life I want very clear dots to connect right and so we can like clearly follow that little path to the Carrick back to the character's deepest motivations and see what drives them a book I used to read every night to all the younger kids the tales of Flanagan writer swashbuckling Rogue he had enough money to do anything that he wanted to do he could go anywhere that he wanted to go and and for a kid with nothing I don't know I just seem like the better option and it doesn't always have to be like a physical like thing like you know all anti-heroes care about is money like that doesn't that's not always the case sometimes is more deeply rooted into their internal conflict like you're saying with with Corporal price in your book um it's more rooted to his sense of identity and and feeling loved um and that he wants to feel seen and loved and has never experienced that but he's also dealing with this Revenge from his past involving the anomalies and how they've um you know impacted his life in a negative way so he's kind of dealing with so many different layers of conflict and sense of identity can be a really interesting conflict to dig into with an anti-hero um and one another anti-hero that comes to mind some people might consider this more of a villain character but in this particular film I would call him more of an anti-hero and that is the character of Loki from the first Thor movie in the MCU so he kind of slowly becomes the villain throughout the course of that film but in the beginning and throughout quite a bit of it I would consider him more of an anti-hero in that he's kind of still Bros with Thor he's like still paling around with Thor and like part of the squad and he's not really looked at as like a big Threat by anybody but we see that he's deeply insecure and he wants to be the king of Asgard and he will do literally whatever it takes to be the king to be better than everyone because he has this inferiority complex of like believing himself to be an outsider an outcast and not one of them and so that's like the springboard like the deeply rooted misbelief is that he is not one of them he doesn't belong and that he's different and that he um can't have a place in in their world so I am no more than another stolen Relic locked up here until you might have use of me why'd you twist my words you told me what I was from the beginning why didn't you right that's really the birthplace of all the resentment and conflict that follows to make up the rest of the stories is this inferiority he feels about not belonging and not having uh a place in in society and in his family he feels like he's not as much a member of the family and so that's a really great example of identity complexity feeling like um you know those really multi-layered conflicts that's not so much something he's trying to get it's something he wants to be but feels he isn't why have you done this father that I am a worthy son when he wakes I will have saved his life I will have destroyed that race of monsters and I will be true heir to the throne yes so these are a good questions to ask yourself as you're crafting an anti-hero is like is it is it that they're making selfish decisions or destructive decisions based off of something they want to get or achieve or is it something that they feel that they are not and so they're actually in a defense mode of how do I sort of build this wall around myself to protect myself from ever having to face up to the truth that I might not be this thing that I think I am yeah and really isn't that like the isn't that at the core of like all character conflicts even if it seems like their goal is more on the surface or like more of a surface level um you know achievable quantifiable thing like really beneath the surface it all comes from this sense of like who they are you know who they want to be so that's a really good really good question to ask yourself and start digging into and speaking of the deeper parts of your character um another huge trait that is a trademark of anti-heroes is that traumas or tragedies in their past are basically the the thing to blame it's what has stolen all of their good heroic attributes and turn them into the morally gray person that they are today so tragic backstory is a great place to start for any anti-hero any morally Great Character because we have to go back to like where did this begin because if we go back far enough they were once a pure child you know they were once a child who didn't have these conflicts or these these issues and so where did where did those fatal flaws come from where do their fears and misbeliefs come from um they've probably made a lot of bad decisions throughout their past and maybe some things were inflicted upon them maybe some things were their own choices that were mistakes and those things shaped them into who they are today and I think that even if you don't include the backstory completely in in your story um whether you're writing a novel or screenplay whatever it may be even if you don't have room for the actual backstory I would recommend writing it or even outlining it like you know notes to yourself of like the history of this character and where their misbelief first took root because this is the driving force behind everything they do and it's important to know where that came from maybe something tragic happened in their past that utterly stripped them of empathy and Humanity and that was the starting point of their dissension into morally gray Behavior you know so again going back to some story examples um one of the story examples that comes to my mind is Mr Rochester from Jane Eyre he's not necessarily like an anti-hero but he's not really much of a hero until the end of the story and even throughout most of the story his his character is a bit more reserved and broody and kind of morally gray in some ways right it's interesting because the story of Jane Eyre he's not really positioned as the hero like Jane is very much the heroine and Mr Rochester isn't really competing with her for that role at all in the story yeah um so it's more like he is a very complex and here in a lot of ways when I was a young man I was your equal I had a clear conscience I'm polluted by sin I took the wrong path it was my fault that I took it but I must bear the blame for continuing on it you know he's he's so human feeling which is why it's like one of my favorite dramas of all time Jane Eyre love it [Music] I'm gonna help you so I'll do anything for you what if I asked you to do so something for me that was wrong I know I know the answer Jane you could not it's a great example of um you know that complexity yeah and how the decisions in his past have really shaped who he is today or in in the story and you know one of the the biggest turning point of of Jane Eyre is when you know she she's basically her trust is betrayed by Mr Rochester when he goes to marry her and then she finds out he already has a wife and it's like this huge moment this huge Turning Point um where the story like takes a big turn and and Jane has to confront these conflicts um but we see that Mr Rochester even though he has been dishonest with her in some ways he you can see like his reasoning and his flaws and the complexities of his emotions and desires and like why he would do that you can kind of almost put yourself in his shoes and see like yeah I can see why he did that and I Can See Clearly like the reason behind his actions um and it almost makes you question and Ponder like what would you do in the same situation um and learning about his backstory and how his mistakes have kind of led him to the the broken uh sort of chaotic person he is currently in the story that really makes him feel more human like you're saying that's one in my opinion that's one of the coolest things that an anti-hero does for your story in terms of what it's doing for the reader is it's making them ask questions it's making them ask questions about themselves and and question like what would I do in this situation what would be the my opinion of the right way to navigate that situation what do I agree with what this character is doing what do I disagree with what this character is doing how would I help them if I could it raises so many interesting questions for the reader and it makes that story that much deeper yeah 100 and another anti-hero example that Kate doesn't know because she hasn't read this book but but a lot of you guys will probably know is Kaz Brecker from six of crows by Leigh bardugo and he's just such a great example of a very flawed anti-hero who has a tragic backstory and we learn his backstory throughout the course of the novel and we see how that has turned him into the person he is today um both his greatest strength and his greatest weakness basically is is derived from his past and from his backstory and beyond the the chaos and and the Brokenness and the morally grayness it's important to remember that your character still has a heart and I think that's what people really love about anti-heroes and actually that's what I was kind of analyzing when I read six of crows because kind of every character in that book is morally gray which is kind of an interesting uh interesting premise um but you still like fall in love with each one of them for different reasons because you see their humanity and you see their heart and you see that eventually that Kaz does have a heart and he becomes he comes to have more of a heart by like the end of the duology and that's I think what a lot of readers loved about that character um and what we love about anti-heroes is seeing the arc which we're going to talk about in a minute but seeing the Journey of change and watching them either become better or fall more into dark this that's what makes us feel like we've been on a journey with this character um but before we talk about character arcs one last trait that I want to point out is that anti-heroes and again a difference between a big difference between anti-heroes and flawed Heroes is that they don't regret their mistakes they justify them and I think that's a big one like where flawed Heroes will make mistakes and you know make bad decisions and then have internal conflict and struggle and have a remorse over what they did an anti-hero on the other hand will just try to justify their behavior so that they always feel like they're in the right and I think this is like a recurring theme that you see with a lot of anti-heroes is that they just fall back on like well I had a good reason for doing that or like I really wasn't that bad you know like trying to justify their bad behavior and a character who immediately comes to mind for this is Lady Mary Crawley from Downton Abbey so she's kind of an Andy hero throughout the whole series even though she's also positioned to be the hero or the heroine in a lot of ways because even though the show really revolves around a very large cast of characters she's kind of the centerpiece of like the conflicts that happen mostly happen pertaining to her character but she's kind of venomous in a lot of ways especially in season one it's it's really Amplified how um a lot of her decisions are being made from selfish motivations she hurts people and doesn't regret it she has very um very stressful relationships with her sisters and her family look I wasn't to know you hadn't told him it never occurred just shut up I don't know what's happened Tom's made you feel bad or Papa or maybe it's just the same old Mary he wants her cake and hate me too I never meant yes you did she kind of is very she has a very Cutthroat personality to get what she wants even if some of it you you feel sorry for her and you can relate to her because she's doing some of it out of just not knowing what to do their societal expectations put on her and so you can sympathize with her character to an extent and that's what really makes you actually cheer her on through the series rather than dislike her for all of it there are moments when you dislike her but there's also moments where you see she's being driven by her this this conflict inside of her between what she thinks Society is pressuring her to do and what she really wants out of life and so of course you can sympathize with that struggle but we see her make Choice after choice that she justifies based on what she needs not necessarily what anyone else wants or needs right I have not ruined my life and if bird is put off by that then tend to mean Yourself by trying to justify your Venom just go well it's always about what would serve her and of course we see that change somewhat through her character Arc as the as the series continues on I don't know why I did it not really because you are unhappy so you wanted me to be unhappy too now you're happy again you'll be nicer for a while you can see that it comes from a place of like insecurity and self-preservation which is another another trait to think about with anti-heroes is like they're always kind of falling back on this self-preservation mode of like I need to protect myself immediately and protect what I want and then everyone else kind of comes second place to that and in a lot of ways we see Lady Mary make these decisions and say things to people and behave a certain way that she knows is going to hurt other people but she's okay with doing it because it somehow it's like serves what she's trying to get right she's trying to like maybe manipulate a situation or a person and she gets back at somebody or gets even with somebody and in the midst of doing that she ends up hurting other people uh I've been waiting for you I found a book over here and I think it's just the thing to catch your interest oh really I'm intrigued what should it be Mary can be such a child what do you mean daily she thinks if you put a toy down it'll still be sitting there when you want to play with it again but we see that it comes from like this this two seasons it's it's spectacularly done because the first season really ends in massive disaster where um she really doesn't even get what she ultimately wants what she was doing all these calculated Maneuvers to try to get to this place of maybe happiness and even that falls through because you can't get to that place of ultimate happiness through being manipulative and through you know constantly throwing someone under the bus what do you have said if I'd accepted you of course so I ruined everything showed me I've been living in a dream and it's time to return to real life so you know we could also go into theme from there taking their actions of your anti-hero and and using it as um something that contributes to your theme at large yeah as well because it can make you um can make the reader think about wow okay you know I see that there's a larger message at play here I think that's very possible as well yes and and that plays into like the character Arc thing so like what kind of grander Journey do you want to bring your character on I think that's an important question to um contemplate as you're writing this anti-hero character like do you want them to ultimately get better like become more empathetic and more caring and less selfish more of a hero or do you want them to slowly descend into more more of a negative character Arc where they become worse and worse and they eventually become like a villain um because every villain was once an anti-hero if you go back far enough you know if you just backtrack you'll see that your villain wasn't born like that they were made to be a villain throughout the course of their um history and and what they've gone through and the different conflicts that they've faced so depending on the themes like you were saying that you want to bring into your story um both both uh ending scenarios could provoke the same sorts of questions and thoughts if your character ultimately becomes more empathetic and more heroic what kinds of themes and Impressions does that leave on your reader and if your character ultimately becomes more of a villain more destructive or they meet a tragic end like they are destroyed by their own evil deeds and actions and and their own mistakes um if their mistakes destroy them in the end of the book or the end of the story how what does that show your readers how what kind of questions and themes does that create um so positive character Arc examples from what we've talked about Dimitri has a positive character Arc from Anastasia Flynn Rider has a positive character Arc he becomes like the hero at the end of the story um and then Lady Mary has kind of a positive character Arc in that by the end of the last season we see that she she mends things she like makes amends with her sister who she has repeatedly gone out of her way to sabotage her sister's life in different ways but she finally makes amends there and and heals the relationship between them and we see her become a better person and we see other characters make her a better person I think that's another thing that you can play with too um with positive character arcs for your anti-hero is like what other characters are in the mix that make this anti-hero a better person um and the same with like if Flynn's character entangled like Rapunzel makes him a better person and that's kind of the reason why he changes right um and then on the flip side you have negative character Arc examples like Loki in the film Thor like he's kind of an anti-hero for the whole thing and then it becomes worse and worse and then falls off into space and of course he doesn't die but that's kind of like a tragic end moment where we see that his behavior and his actions have have brought him to this moment of Destruction self-destruction and then I don't want to give away like or spoil anything about your books but Aaron Price has kind of a negative character too and that his mistakes and his actions bring him to a place of darkness in the end um so there are different ways to play with this and and make it something that is it's bringing your themes into the story ultimately and making your readers ask the kinds of questions that you want them to contemplate after they finish reading your book so true yeah it's a really cool thing to use an anti-hero for so bring out the theme just as much as the hero or the villain the story sometimes it doesn't have to be one extreme or the other sometimes we actually see more of the struggle and the the down to earth every day human decisions on display in the anti-hero yeah very true so to recap real quick traits of an anti-hero it's not just that they're too good to be bad too bad to be good it's also that they know what they're doing is morally wrong but they do it anyway they're going about getting what they want in all the selfish ways not caring who they hurt in the process traumas or tragedies from their past have stolen all their good heroic attributes and turned them into the morally gray person they are today they don't regret their mistakes they try to justify them to themselves and to others try to kind of come to a conclusion that they had a good reason for doing what they did um and they're morally flexible they're always in self-preservation mode they act out of their fears and weaknesses and their insecurities but ultimately they have this deep desire this this goal to be something that they're not and to achieve something that they've always wanted and that fear and that goal can come out of their Past come out of their deeply rooted misbelief and their fatal flaws so explore that and also ask yourself what kind of character Arc am I going to give my anti-hero is it going to be positive or negative and why and what kind of questions will my reader ask because of the arc that this character has the journey that they go on and how they transform so yeah hopefully you guys took notes hopefully you enjoyed this episode comment below and tell us what is your favorite anti-hero character in a story we've used a lot of examples today that we personally love and have learned from and we think that the best way to learn about writing is through studying your favorite stories and studying your favorite characters and trying to understand like what is it that makes me love this so much it's a great way to learn about writing learn about story um so drop a comment in the comment section below this video and tell us your favorite anti-hero and why why you love them so much if you haven't seen the video version of this podcast you can find that on Kate's YouTube channel which is youtube.com k a MNS check that out also of course check out Kate's Sparrow series check out Kate's whole series because she has amazing characters such great anti-heroes villains Heroes just amazing complex characters so if we have piqued your curiosity by talking about Sparrow today you definitely want to check out that Series yeah you can find all the links in the description of this video as well as links to Abby's books that's actually one of the best ways to also support us as writers is to check out our books we're always so humbled and honored when you guys want to read some of the things that we've written we're also working on a series together so many Andy here yeah so many anti-heroes if you want to sign up for the waiting list so you're one of the first to find out as we begin to think about launching in the future make sure you sign up for that email list so that you can be one of the first to know yeah so exciting I can't wait as we were doing this podcast I'm like I want to use but you guys will love it if you love anti-heroes you're gonna love this series so stay tuned for that and thank you again to our amazing patrons or sponsors who support this show and keep it going we appreciate you guys so much if you get value out of this podcast go to patreon.com the Kate and Abby show and help us keep it alive and free interruptions until next time stay stoked and rock on

Channel: K.A. Emmons

Views: 19,288

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Id: WTXIo9dBYfU

Length: 40min 14sec (2414 seconds)

Published: Wed May 31 2023