(SINGING) I KNOW MY GOD
HAS MADE THE WAY FOR ME. I KNOW MY GOD
HAS MADE THE WAY FOR ME. ANNOUNCER: GOD HAS CALLED
HIS CHURCH TO PRAY HIS PLANS INTO THIS EARTH
AND STOP THE STRATEGIES OF THE ENEMY. GLORIA
COPELAND AND BILLYE BRIM EXPOUND ON THE POWER
OF GOD AVAILABLE WHEN BELIEVERS COME INTO
UNITY IN THE SPIRIT, NEXT, RIGHT HERE ON THE BELIEVER'S
VOICE OF VICTORY. GLORIA: HELLO, EVERYBODY.
WELCOME TO THE BELIEVER'S VOICE OF VICTORY. OUR
GOOD FRIEND, BILLYE BRIM, IS HERE FROM PRAYER MOUNTAIN IN THE
OZARKS, AND SHE'S SHARING SOME MARVELOUS THINGS FOR US. WE'RE
GOING TO--WE'RE IN AN EXCITING TIME. WE'RE GOING TO LIVE ALL
OUT FOR GOD. WE'RE GOING TO GO JUST TAKE OUT THE STOPS AND DO
WHATEVER HE TELLS US TO DO-- BILLYE: AMEN. GLORIA: --IN THIS
HOUR. AND WELCOME, BILLYE, WE'RE SO GLAD YOU'RE HERE. BILLYE:
PRAISE THE LORD. I'M GLAD TO BE HERE, AND I THANK YOU FOR THE
OPPORTUNITY TO BE HERE. I THANK YOU FOR BELIEVING GOD AND BEING
FAITHFUL AND BELIEVING HIM FOR THE MONEY. GLORIA: PRAISE GOD.
BILLYE: I KNOW IT TAKES MONEY TO HAVE THIS GREAT VOICE IN THE
EARTH. GLORIA: THANK YOU, JESUS. BILLYE: AND I KNOW YOU'VE HAD TO
BELIEVE FOR IT. GLORIA: ABSOLUTELY. BILLYE: AND I WANT
TO THANK YOU FOR DOING IT, YOU AND KENNETH. GLORIA: GOD IS
ABLE-- BILLYE: AND--YES. GLORIA: --AND WILLING. BILLYE: AND
WILLING. AND YOU--AND YOU LEARNED HOW TO DO IT-- GLORIA:
WE DID. BILLYE: --HOW TO BELIEVE HIM FOR IT. GLORIA: BELIEVING
FOR FOOD ON THE TABLE. BILLYE: I KNOW YOU STARTED WITH BELIEVING
FOR FOOD ON THE TABLE. GLORIA: THAT'S RIGHT. (LAUGHS) BILLYE:
AND NOW WE'RE PUTTING SOME FOOD ON THE SPIRITUAL TABLE ALL
AROUND THE WORLD. GLORIA: ALL OVER THE WORLD. HALLELUJAH.
BILLYE: AND THE LORD HAS TOLD ME RECENTLY THAT HE--HE'S GOT TO
HAVE US. GLORIA: PRAISE GOD. BILLYE: WE'RE GOING TO TALK
NEXT WEEK ABOUT WHAT GOD NEEDS. GLORIA: OH, THAT'LL BE GOOD.
BILLYE: HE HAS NEEDS, AND YOU'RE IT. AND HE NEEDS YOUR VOICE, AND
HE NEEDS YOUR FAITH. GLORIA: AMEN. BILLYE: AND HE--HE GAVE
YOU A LANGUAGE, IF YOU'RE BAPTIZED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT,
SPEAKING WITH OTHER TONGUES-- GLORIA: YES. BILLYE: --SO THAT
YOU COULD PRAY HIS WILL INTO THE EARTH. GLORIA: AMEN. BILLYE: AND
SO WE'VE BEEN TALKING A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE HISTORY. HE
OUT--THERE WAS THE OUTPOURING, THE FORMER RAIN OUTPOURING OF
THE HOLY GHOST IN ACTS 2. AND THE EVIDENCE WAS, THEY SPOKE
WITH TONGUES. GLORIA: THAT'S RIGHT. BILLYE: AND THEN AT THE
BEGINNING OF THE 1900'S, HE POURED OUT THE BAPTISM WITH THE
HOLY SPIRIT AGAIN. IT EVENTUALLY BECAME THE AZUSA STREET REVIVAL
BECAUSE IT HAD BEEN LOST FROM THE EARTH. BUT NOW--YOU KNOW IN
THOSE EARLY DAYS OF THE PENTECOSTAL MOVE? FROM THE
ASSEMBLIES OF GOD ARCHIVES, I GOT "CONFIDENCE" MAGAZINE
COPIES. GLORIA: MM. BILLYE: AND THIS WAS PUT OUT BY A MINISTER
IN ENGLAND, AND IT WAS IN HIS PARSONAGE, HIS MANSE, THAT
WIGGLESWORTH RECEIVED THE HOLY GHOST. AND SO THAT MINISTER PUT
OUT A PAPER. THEY KNEW EVERYBODY IN THE EARTH THAT WAS BAPTIZED
IN THE HOLY GHOST. THEY WOULD PUT A LITTLE ARTICLE IN THERE.
TODAY WE GOT WORD THAT SIX PEOPLE IN SYRIA ARE BAPTIZED IN
THE HOLY GHOST. GLORIA: GLORY TO GOD. ISN'T THAT INTERESTING?
BILLYE: AND THEY KEPT TRACK OF IT. NOW THERE'S MILLIONS OF US
ALL AROUND THE WORLD. AND GOD-- GLORIA: YEAH, NO WAY TO KEEP
TRACK. BILLYE: --HAS PUT OUT A CALL FOR US TO UNITE IN PRAYER--
GLORIA: PRAISE GOD. BILLYE: --AND TO UNITE, PRAYING IN THE
HOLY GHOST, PRAYING IN TONGUES, WITH NO AGENDA. AND THROUGHOUT
THIS WEEK, I'VE BEEN TELLING YOU WHAT HE TOLD YOU ABOUT IT. HE
NEEDS US TO DEDICATE A 30-MINUTE PERIOD OUT OF OUR LIVES EACH DAY
IN WHICH WE SIT BEFORE HIM AND WE SAY, "HERE I AM. GIVE ME THE
UTTERANCE," AND YOU PRAY IN TONGUES. AND YOU'RE PRAYING THE
MYSTERIES, THE PLANS OF GOD. WE'LL TALK ABOUT THAT NEXT WEEK
AS WELL. GLORIA: WOW. BILLYE: SO THIS WEEK I'VE BEEN TALKING
ABOUT WHEN GOD GOT THAT BACK INTO THE EARTH, IT CAME
PRIMARILY IN THE MIDDLE OF THE COUNTRY IN TOPEKA THROUGH
BROTHER CHARLES PARHAM AND HIS BIBLE SCHOOL. AND EVENTUALLY,
THEY GOT THAT MESSAGE DOWN TO HOUSTON. AND THE ONE-EYED BLACK
PREACHER, BROTHER SEYMOUR--SEYMOUR
EVENTUALLY--THEN HE TOOK IT OUT. AND IN 1906, APRIL, THEY HAD THE
OUTPOURING OF THE HOLY SPIRIT THERE. BUT BEFORE THEY CAME FROM
KANSAS DOWN TO HOUSTON, THEY PREACHED ALL THE WAY AND THEY
HAD MIRACLES. I HAPPENED TO KNOW BROTHER PARHAM'S DAUGHTER VERY
WELL, PAULINE PARHAM. GLORIA: MM-HMM. BILLYE: AND SHE TOLD ME
A LOT OF STORIES. AND THEN THEY HAD A DAUGHTER. SHE WAS THE WIFE
OF BROTHER PARHAM'S ONLY SON. THEY HAD A DAUGHTER, BOBBI
HROMAS, WHO STILL LIVES TODAY, WONDERFUL--VERY SUCCESSFUL SAINT
OF GOD. AND PAULINE AND I WOULD--I MEAN, EXCUSE ME, BOBBI
AND I WOULD ASK BOBBI'S MOTHER, PAULINE, "DID YOU WRITE DOWN ANY
OF THE MIRACLES YOU ALL HAD AND DIDN'T YOU WRITE A BOOK?" AND
SHE SAID, "WE WERE TOO BUSY." THEY COULDN'T WRITE IT DOWN.
GLORIA: DIDN'T HAVE TIME. BILLYE: AND SO THEY GOT BAPTIZED
IN THE HOLY SPIRIT, AND THEY--THEY STARTED HAVING
MEETINGS, SOME OF THEM TENT MEETINGS. AND SHE SAID--SHE GAVE
US AN EXAMPLE. AND THEY WOULD ALL DRESS IN WHITE. IT WAS
MAINLY YOUNG PEOPLE. AND THE YOUNG PEOPLE WOULD DRESS IN
WHITE, WHITE TROUSERS, WHITE SHIRT, WHITE SKIRTS. AND THEY
WOULD GO OUT IN THE DAYTIME, KNOCK ON DOORS, INVITE PEOPLE TO
THE MEETING AT NIGHT WHEREVER THEY WERE GOING TO HAVE THE
MEETING, MAYBE GALENA, THEY WERE GOING TO HAVE A TENT MEETING.
AND PAULINE SAID, "WE TOOK TURNS STAYING AT HOME, COOKING."
SOMEBODY WOULD COOK, AND THE TEAM WOULD COME IN AND EAT LUNCH
AND THEN REST IN THE AFTERNOON. AND IT WAS MY DAY TO WASH AND
IRON AND COOK. AND THERE CAME A KNOCK ON THE DOOR AND THERE WAS
A WOMAN, AND SHE HAD HER 14-YEAR-OLD DAUGHTER IN HER
HANDS--ARMS, AND THE 14-YEAR-OLD DAUGHTER WAS DEAD. AND SHE SAID
TO PAULINE, A YOUNG GIRL AT THE TIME, SHE SAID, "YOU ADVERTISED
THAT JESUS CHRIST IS THE SAME YESTERDAY, TODAY, AND FOREVER,
AND HE RAISED THE DEAD IN THE BIBLE--" GLORIA: MY, MY. BILLYE:
"--AND I WANT HIM TO RAISE MY DAUGHTER. AND I DON'T WANT THE
CORONER TO FIND HER BEFORE SHE GETS RAISED, BECAUSE I WANT HER
RAISED." SO PAULINE SAID, "WELL, LAY HERE THERE ON THE SOFA, AND
THE TEAM WILL BE IN HERE IN A MINUTE." SO SHE LAID HER OUT
THERE. PAULINE WENT ON WITH HER IRONING, AND IN CAME THE TEAM,
AND THEY LAID HANDS ON THAT LITTLE GIRL, 14 YEARS OLD, AND
SHE RAISED UP FROM THE DEAD-- GLORIA: GLORY TO GOD. BILLYE:
--AND SHE HAD LUNCH WITH THEM. AND THEN SHE WENT THAT NIGHT AND
GAVE HER TESTIMONY AT THE TENT MEETING. GLORIA: PRAISE GOD.
BILLYE: SO YOU COULD IMAGINE WHAT KINDS OF MEETINGS THAT THEY
HAD. GLORIA: GLORY TO GOD. IS THAT IN THE BOOK? BILLYE: NO.
SHE DIDN'T PUT IT IN A BOOK. GLORIA: OH, MY, MY. BILLYE: SHE
DIDN'T EVER GET A BOOK WRITTEN AS FAR AS I CAN TELL. GLORIA:
WELL, YOU'LL HAVE TO PUT IT IN A BOOK. BILLYE: AND--OR REALLY
BOBBI SHOULD DO IT. I'LL HAVE TO ASK HER IF SHE'S DONE IT.
BUT THOSE PEOPLE WITH THAT HAPPENING-- GLORIA: WE NEED TO
HEAR ABOUT THINGS LIKE THAT. BILLYE: I KNOW, WE HAVE TO HEAR
IT. WITH THAT HAPPENING, THEY CAME UP THROUGH TULSA AREA, AND
THAT'S WHERE MY GRANDPARENTS--MY GREAT-GRANDPARENTS, THE
PICKARDS, ISAAC AND CARRIE THAT WE TALKED ABOUT YESTERDAY,
THAT'S WHERE THEY WERE LIVING. AND SO WHEN THEY CAME UP
THERE--AND I TOLD YOU ABOUT HOW IKE PICKARD WENT INTO TOWN AND
HE CAME IN CONTACT WITH THE PENTECOSTALS AND HE WAS A FORMER
DRUNK BUT THEN HE STAYED DRUNK IN THE HOLY GHOST. WELL, HIS
WIFE--HE AND HIS WIFE LIVED OUT ON THAT FARM SOUTH OF--OF
COWETA. MY DADDY WAS BORN, AND HIS FATHER DIED JUST THE WEEK HE
WAS BORN. SO HIS GREAT-GRANDPARENTS HAD A LOT TO
DO WITH BRINGING HIM UP. AND HE TOLD ABOUT LIFE WITH THEM AND
THE PENTECOSTALS, THE EARLY-DAY PENTECOSTALS. AND HE SAID THEY
WOULD GO TO MEETINGS. HE'S JUST A LITTLE BOY. HE'D SLEEP UNDER
THE PEWS. AND HE SAID, "EVERYBODY WOULD PREACH, AND
THEY'D HAVE THE MEETINGS WAY EARLY IN THE MORNING." AND THERE
WAS BROTHER BENNY SOMEBODY AND THEY COULDN'T WAIT TILL HE
PREACHED BECAUSE WHEN HE PREACHED, HE'D RUN UP AND DOWN
THE ALTAR, AND HE WOULD RUN OFF THE END OF THE ALTAR AND DANCE
IN THE MIDDLE OF THE AIR AND THEN RUN BACK ON THE ALTAR.
GLORIA: OH, MERCY. BILLYE: SO THEY LOVED TO HEAR HIM. GLORIA:
YEAH. BILLYE: I THINK HIS NAME WAS BENNY KETCHUM, I'M NOT SURE.
GLORIA: BENNY KETCHUM. BILLYE: YEAH. BUT HE PREACHED AND THEY
LOVED TO WATCH HIM. GLORIA: I GUESS. BILLYE: THERE'S SOMETHING
HAPPENING ALL THE TIME AT THE CHURCHES. AND SO--BUT DADDY
SAID, IN THAT FAMILY WITH CARRIE AND IKE PICKARD, THE EMPHASIS
WAS ON PRAYER. GLORIA: NOW, THAT'S YOUR RELATIVES, RIGHT?
BILLYE: THAT'S MY GREAT-GRANDPARENTS. GLORIA: WHAT
A HERITAGE. BILLYE: AND OUT ON THEIR FARM THEY HAD A GREAT, BIG
DEEP CANYON, AND THE PENTECOSTALS WOULD COME OUT
THERE, BECAUSE ONE NIGHT THEY WENT TO CHURCH AND THERE WAS A
CHICKEN WITH AN AX THROUGH ITS THROAT AND A NOTE UNDER THE AX
THAT SAID, "IF YOU DON'T STOP THESE DEVILISH THINGS, THIS IS
GOING TO BE YOU, IF YOU DON'T STOP MEETING." WELL, THEY DIDN'T
STOP MEETING. PRAISE GOD. AND NOW IT'S ALL OVER THE WORLD.
GLORIA: MM-HMM. BILLYE: BUT OUT THERE ON THAT--THEY HAD THAT
GREAT, BIG DEEP CANYON, AND THEY WOULD PRAY, AND IF IT GOT HAPPY
AND LOUD, THEY COULD BE HAPPY ON THAT FARM, OR THEY GOT A BURDEN
AND THEY TRAVAILED-- GLORIA: YEAH. BILLYE: --IT WOULD BE
FINE. THE WINTER TIME, THEY MOVED INTO MY GRANDPARENTS'
HOUSE. BUT DADDY SAID THE THING THAT HE REMEMBERED MOST WAS HOW
THEY PRAYED. THEY BELIEVED, GLORIA, THAT THEY WERE BAPTIZED
IN THE HOLY GHOST AND GIVEN THIS LANGUAGE IN ORDER TO PRAY ABOUT
THE MYSTERIES OF GOD. GLORIA: PRAISE GOD. BILLYE: AND THEY
BELIEVED THAT THEY WERE TO PRAY ABOUT GOD'S WORK UNTIL JESUS
COMES. AND DADDY SAID AT THE TABLE, HIS GRANDPA WOULD PULL
OUT A CHAIR, AND HE'D SAY, "EVERYBODY KNEEL AT YOUR CHAIR
AND LET'S PRAY." GLORIA: WHAT A HERITAGE YOU'VE GOT. BILLYE: AND
THEIR PRAYERS WERE LONG, AND--AND THE FOOD ALWAYS GOT
COLD. AND THERE ARE A LOT OF STORIES. I HAVE SOME MORE
STORIES IN THIS BOOK ABOUT THEM PRAYING. BUT IN THAT EARLY-DAY
MOVE OF GOD, THEY BELIEVED THAT THEY GOT THIS LANGUAGE SO THAT
THEY COULD PRAY. NOW, I'M NOT GOING TO GO INTO HOW ALL THAT
HAPPENED, BUT MY DAD'S THIRD GENERATION. AND I THINK BECAUSE
OF MAYBE PERSECUTION, OTHER THINGS--IT DIDN'T AFFECT CARRIE
AND IKE, BUT THEN SECOND AND THIRD GENERATIONS--MY DADDY
RAISED US IN A DENOMINATIONAL CHURCH. I NEVER-- GLORIA: THERE
WAS A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF PERSECUTION. BILLYE: I NEVER
KNEW ABOUT ALL OF THAT. I KNEW ABOUT GRANDMA PICKARD. GRANDPA
PICKARD DIED BEFORE I WAS BORN. BUT GRANDMA PICKARD LIVED UNTIL
I WAS A FRESHMAN IN HIGH SCHOOL. I KNEW HER WELL. AND WE LIVED IN
BROKEN ARROW, OKLAHOMA, AND SHE LIVED DOWN IN COWETA, OKLAHOMA.
AND SHE WOULD COME UP TO BROKEN ARROW TO GO TO MEETINGS BECAUSE
THEY HAD GOOD HOLY GHOST MEETINGS THERE. AND SHE DIDN'T
GET IN UNTIL 2:00 OR 3:00 IN THE MORNING, AND SHE'D CLIMB IN BED
WITH ME. THAT'S WHERE SHE SLEPT. GLORIA: YOU THINK OUR SERVICES
ARE LONG. (LAUGHS) BILLYE: AND I REMEMBER HEARING HERE IN THE
NIGHTTIME, "HALLELUJAH. GLORY BE TO GOD." AND THEN SHE'D PRAY IN
THIS STRANGE LANGUAGE. AND I'D--I REMEMBER GETTING UP ON MY
ELBOW AND LOOKING AT HER, AND SHE WAS ASLEEP. "HALLELUJAH.
GLORY BE TO GOD," AND IN TONGUES. GLORIA: WHILE SHE WAS
SLEEPING? BILLYE: WHILE SHE WAS SLEEPING. GLORIA: WOW. BILLYE:
SO NOW SHE'S CARRIE PICKARD FROM THE AZUSA STREET, PRE-AZUSA
STREET. SO EVERY SUNDAY WHEN I LIVED IN BROKEN ARROW--AND NOW
SHE'S MY GREAT-GRANDMOTHER, AND SHE'S WAY UP IN YEARS, WE'D
DRIVE DOWN TO HER DAUGHTER'S HOUSE, MY GRANDMOTHER AND MY
GRANDMA CODY. WE'D GET OUT OF CHURCH AT OUR DENOMINATIONAL
CHURCH IN BROKEN ARROW, WE'D DRIVE NINE MILES TO COWETA.
GRANDMA'S USUALLY GOT CHICKEN AND DUMPLINGS. WE EAT CHICKEN
AND DUMPLINGS. AFTER THE MEAL, THEY'RE ALWAYS TALKING. THEY
HAVE--THEY'RE AIRING DISCUSSION. AND THEY HAVE TWO SUBJECTS THAT
OFTEN COME UP AROUND THIS DINNER TABLE; POLITICS OR RELIGION. THE
SUNDAY THAT STICKS OUT IN MY MIND, IT WAS RELIGION. AND
GRANDMA PICKARD, THE PENTECOSTAL GRANDMA, SHE DIDN'T GET HOME
FROM CHURCH TILL ABOUT 2:00. WE'RE ALREADY THROUGH WITH THE
MEAL AND WE'RE TALKING. SHE COMES IN, SHE'S GOT A LITTLE ICE
BUCKET, BECAUSE SHE HAD AN ICEBOX OUT IN HER HOUSE. SHE
LIVED IN A LITTLE HOUSE BEHIND GRANDMA AND GRANDPA, A LITTLE
TWO-ROOM HOUSE WITH AN ICEBOX. GLORIA: BLOCKS OF ICE? BILLYE:
AND SHE--YEAH. AND SHE--BUT GRANDMA HAD A REFRIGERATOR. SO
GRANDMA PICKARD, GREAT-GRANDMA, WOULD COME IN WITH A LITTLE
WOODEN ICE BUCKET AND GET HER OUT SOME ICE CUBES AND GO BACK
TO HER HOUSE. THIS SUNDAY, SHE COMES IN THERE. WE'RE TALKING
ABOUT--MY--I'M JUST A KID. I'M 12 YEARS OLD. AND I ALWAYS
LISTENED TO THE OLD FOLKS. I LIKED TO HANG AROUND THEM, HEAR
WHAT THEY TALK ABOUT. AND THEY'RE TALKING RELIGION, AND
THEY'RE ALL DENOMINATIONAL. MY DAD'S SISTERS SMOKE, AND THEY'RE
PROBABLY SMOKING. BUT, YOU KNOW--SO ANYWAY, HERE SHE
COMES IN, AND THEY'RE TALKING RELIGION. AND SHE SAYS THIS
CONCERNING THE--THE DENOMINATION WE WERE--AND SHE HAD A LITTLE
BONY FIGURE. SHE WAS A BONY LITTLE PERSON. SHE SAID, "YOU
ALL ARE ALL RIGHT AS FAR AS YOU GO, BUT YOU JUST DON'T GO FAR
ENOUGH." GLORIA: (LAUGHS) SHE HAD IT FIGURED OUT. BILLYE: "BUT
ONE OF THESE DAYS," SHE SAID, AND SHE STARTED DANCING, "YOU'RE
GOING TO SEE THE LIGHT." SHE DANCED ALL OVER THAT ROOM. SHE
STARTED LAUGHING IN THE HOLY GHOST. NOW I KNOW. GLORIA: AND
YOU REMEMBER THIS? BILLYE: YES. I REMEMBER IT LIKE IT WAS
IMPLANTED IN ME. AND SHE DANCED OUT THE BACK DOOR. NOT A PERSON
SAID A WORD. NONE OF THEM EXPLAINED TO ME WHAT HAPPENED.
GLORIA: SPEECHLESS. BILLYE: NOTHING. I JUST SAW THIS: "ONE
OF THESE DAYS YOU'RE GOING TO SEE THE LIGHT." BLESS THE LORD.
SO I REMEMBER MY GREAT-GRANDMA PICKARD, AND I REMEMBER THESE
THINGS HAPPENING, EVEN THOUGH I WAS RAISED DENOMINATIONAL. NOW,
IN 1965, HERE I AM, I'M RAISED UP IN THIS DENOMINATION. I KNOW
I AM CALLED TO PREACH SINCE I WAS THREE YEARS OLD, BUT THIS
DENOMINATION SAYS WOMEN CAN'T PREACH. GLORIA: SINCE YOU WERE
THREE YEARS OLD, YOU KNEW? BILLYE: THREE YEARS OLD I USED
TO GET LEAVES AND PREACH TO--I'D GO VISIT MY OTHER GRANDMA WHO
LIVED IN THE CITY OF MUSKOGEE, AND I WOULD GET LEAVES--SHE
LIVED IN AN APARTMENT HOUSE, LOTS OF KIDS. I'D GATHER THEM UP
AND PREACH TO THEM. GLORIA: (LAUGHS) BILLYE: SO I KNEW I WAS
CALLED TO PREACH, BUT MY DENOMINATION SAID WOMEN CAN'T
PREACH. GLORIA: YEAH. BILLYE: SO IN 1965--1965, THINK OF IT.
1965. I'M IN QUITE OF A STATE. I--I TEACH A SUNDAY SCHOOL
CLASS. I PLAY THE PIANO IN OUR DENOMINATIONAL CHURCH EVERY
SUNDAY. BY THIS TIME, 1965, WE MOVE TO COLLINSVILLE, OKLAHOMA.
AND I'M IN THIS STATE. AND A COLLEGE FRIEND THAT I KNEW IN
COLLEGE, LIVED ACROSS THE HALL FROM ME, CALLED ME AND SHE SAID,
"MY HUSBAND AND I LIVE IN THIS TOWN. WE WANTED TO RUN AROUND
WITH YOU AND KEN." HE WAS A FOOTBALL COACH. SO SHE SAID TO
US--TO ME LATER, SHE SAID, "DON'T YOU ALL GO TO CHURCH? I
DON'T--I'VE NEVER BEEN TO CHURCH EXCEPT FOR A FUNERAL. I WANT TO
SING IN THE CHRISTMAS CANTATA." GLORIA: WELL-- (LAUGHS) BILLYE:
WELL, IT WAS HARD TO GET YOU INTO THE CHRISTMAS CANTATA, BUT
I PULLED SOME STRINGS AND DID IT. I WAS A PIANIST. SHE CAME,
GOT BORN AGAIN. GLORIA: PRAISE GOD. BILLYE: I WENT UNDER
CONDEMNATION BECAUSE I KNEW TO WITNESS TO PEOPLE. I NEVER HAD
WITNESSED TO HER. SO SHE CALLS ME. AND ABOUT THREE WEEKS LATER
SHE SAYS TO ME, "YOU KNOW WHAT I'M GOING TO DO NEXT?" NO, IT
WAS A MONTH--TWO OR THREE MONTHS LATER. "WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO
DO?" "I'M GOING TO RECEIVE THE BAPTISM OF THE HOLY SPIRIT AND
SPEAK WITH TONGUES." "OH, NO YOU'RE NOT," I SAID. I HADN'T
GOTTEN HER BORN AGAIN, BUT I WAS GOING TO KEEP HER STRAIGHT. I
SAID, "THAT IS OF THE DEVIL." SHE SAYS TO ME, "IF IT'S OF THE
DEVIL, WHY IS IT IN THE BIBLE?" GLORIA: THAT WAS A GOOD
QUESTION. BILLYE: I SAID, "I DON'T KNOW." BUT I SAID, "GIVE
ME SOME TIME HERE, AND I'LL FIGURE IT OUT." SO I STARTED
READING THE BIBLE-- GLORIA: YOU WERE GOING TO SAVE HER. BILLYE:
I WAS GOING TO SAVE HER. NOW, THE REASON WHY I THOUGHT IT WAS
OF THE DEVIL, IT WAS CHARISMATIC MOVE DAYS. WE WERE LOSING A LOT
OF PEOPLE OUT OF OUR DENOMINATION. AND OUR
DENOMINATIONAL PAPER CAME OUT ONCE A MONTH FOR OKLAHOMA CITY,
AND IT SAID, "SPEAKING IN TONGUES IS OF THE DEVIL." I
DIDN'T PUT TWO AND TWO TOGETHER WITH GRANDMA PICKARD. NO, NO. I
JUST--DENOMINATIONAL PAPER. GLORIA: TOOK THEIR WORD FOR IT.
BILLYE: SO ANYWAY, I GOT A TELEPHONE CALL FROM ALLIE
HUNERYAGER. DO YOU REMEMBER HER? GLORIA: OH, YEAH, SURE. BILLYE:
SHE'S THE WIFE OF DOC HUNERYAGER IN OUR LITTLE TOWN. GLORIA:
MM-HMM. BILLYE: SHE SAID, "MAY I COME AND VISIT YOU?" SHE'S A
DOCTOR'S WIFE. GLORIA: NOW, THIS WOULD BE WHAT, 30-- BILLYE:
1967. 1967. THINK OF IT, 1967-- GLORIA: WAY BACK IN THE OLDEN
DAYS. BILLYE: --APRIL. AND SO SHE CALLS ME AND SHE SAYS, "MAY
I COME VISIT YOU?" I DON'T REALLY KNOW HER, BUT I SAID,
"SURE, COME ON." I GO AND ANSWER THE DOOR, AND THERE'S THIS TALL,
THIN WOMAN, AND SHE'S GO THIS BIG OLD HUGE WOLLENSAK RECORDER
ON HER KNEE. THIS IS B.C., EVEN BEFORE CASSETTES." GLORIA: BIG
RAILS--BIG REELS? BILLYE: SEVEN-INCH REELS. GLORIA:
MM-HMM. BILLYE: SHE CARRIES THAT BIG THING IN THERE, SHE PLOPS IT
DOWN ON MY COFFEE TABLE, AND SHE SAID, "I CAME TO PLAY A TAPE FOR
YOU." GLORIA: WHAT'S THE TAPE? BILLYE: WHAT IS THIS? I HAVE NO
IDEA WHAT IS "PLAY A TAPE FOR YOU." WE DON'T KNOW ABOUT TAPES.
AND SO SHE PUTS IT ON MY COFFEE TABLE. SHE PUNCHES--PUSH
"START," AND HERE COMES THIS VOICE, TEXAS VOICE. IT'S KENNETH
E. HAGIN. AND HE'S PREACHING ON THE FATHER'S CARE-- GLORIA: OH,
YEAH. BILLYE: --JOHN 17, THAT GOD LOVES YOU AS MUCH AS HE
LOVES JESUS. GLORIA: OH, JESUS. BILLYE: I'M TELLING YOU, BY THE
TIME THAT TAPE WAS THROUGH, I WAS SITTING ON THE FLOOR
LITERALLY CRYING. SHE MOVES RIGHT IN FOR THE KILL. SHE SAYS,
"MRS. BRIM, DON'T YOU THINK THAT BEFORE YOU CONVINCE MRS. MARTIN
THE BAPTISM IN THE HOLY SPIRIT IS OF THE DEVIL--" AHA, NOW I
KNOW WHY MRS. MARTIN'S SO SMART. "DON'T YOU THINK BEFORE YOU
CONVINCE MRS. MARTIN THE BAPTISM OF THE HOLY SPIRIT IS OF THE
DEVIL, YOU SHOULD KNOW MORE ABOUT IT?" "YES, I REALLY
SHOULD." SHE SAID, "THIS MAN'S HAVING A SEMINAR NEXT WEEK IN
TULSA, AND I'M GOING TO TAKE YOU AND MRS. MARTIN." GLORIA: NOW,
THAT WOULD'VE BEEN WHEN? BILLYE: APRIL 1967. GLORIA: WERE WE IN
THAT SEMINAR? BILLYE: YOU WERE THERE. GLORIA: YEAH.
THAT'S--MAYBE THAT WAS OUR FIRST SEMINAR. BILLYE: I THINK IT WAS
THE FIRST ONE, 1029 NORTH UTICA. THERE'S BROTHER AND SISTER
GOODWIN, AND THERE'S--THERE'S BROTHER HAGIN. AND THEY'RE
TEACHING PEOPLE. IT'S CHARISMATIC DAYS, AND THEY JUST
GO INTO THE WORD. THEY GO INTO ACTS 2, THEY GO INTO ALL THE
SCRIPTURES WHICH TALK ABOUT TONGUES IN THE CHURCH. GLORIA:
SEE, '67 WAS WHEN WE MOVED TO TULSA. BILLYE: YES. GLORIA: WE
JUST HAD GOTTEN THERE. BILLYE: YOU HAD JUST GOTTEN THERE.
GLORIA: GOD GOT US THERE JUST IN TIME. BILLYE: YOU WERE THERE IN
YOUR LITTLE CARE TIED TOGETHER, I SAY WITH BAILING WIRE, YOU
KNOW. GLORIA: YEAH, IT WAS SOME MIRACLE. BILLYE: YOU WERE THERE.
GLORIA: IT WAS A MIRACLE CAR. BILLYE: IT WAS A MIRACLE THAT WE
GOT THERE. THE ROOM WOULD SEAT ABOUT 150. IT WAS CRAM-JAMMED.
AND THEN WE WERE SITTING, AND THEY'D TEACH US EVERY DAY, SPOON
FOOD--SPOON FEED OUT OF THE BIBLE, SPOON FEED, SPOON FEED.
GLORIA: MM-HMM. BILLYE: AND ON FRIDAY, I WENT TO THE BACK, AND
POP--AND BROTHER HAGIN AND MRS. HAGIN LAID HANDS ON ME AND ON
MRS. MARTIN, MY FRIEND I WAS GOING TO SAVE-- GLORIA: (LAUGHS)
BILLYE: --AND ANOTHER DEACON'S WIFE OUT OF OUR CHURCH, WINONA
STANDRIDGE, AND WE GOT BAPTIZED IN THE HOLY GHOST. AND I WENT
OFF LIKE A FOUNTAIN! GLORIA: AND YOU'VE NEVER BEEN THE SAME
SINCE. BILLYE: NEVER BEEN THE SAME SINCE! I CALLED MY MOTHER,
DENOMINATIONAL. NOW, SHE'S NOT FROM THE PENTECOSTAL SIDE.
"MOM--" I TOLD HER THE GOOD NEWS. IT WASN'T GOOD. GLORIA:
SHE DIDN'T CARE FOR IT? BILLYE: NO, SHE DIDN'T LIKE IT. I SAID,
"MOTHER, MOTHER." I SAID, "IT'S IN THE BIBLE. WHEN I SEE YOU,
I'M GOING TO SHOW YOU." AND I SAID, "I'M NOT GOING TO GET
MIXED UP WITH THESE PENTECOSTALS' ERROR. I'M NOT
GOING TO WASH OFF ALL MY MAKEUP AND GROW MY HAIR LONG AND GET A
BUN. BUT, MOTHER, WHERE THEY'RE RIGHT, I'M GOING TO--I'M GOING
TO JOIN THEM." AND I SAID TO MOTHER, "I PROMISE YOU I WON'T
LISTEN TO ANY WOMAN PREACHERS." WHAT DO YOU KNOW, THE NEXT FEW
DAYS HE BRINGS-- GLORIA: WHAT DO YOU KNOW, YOU ARE ONE? BILLYE:
--HE BRINGS IN A WOMAN PREACHER. GLORIA: WAS IT SISTER GRACE?
BILLYE: SISTER CLARA GRACE. GLORIA: OH, MY. BILLYE: A
PROPHETESS TO BOOT. GLORIA: YEAH, YEAH. BILLYE: IF
HE WOULD'VE SAID, "SHE'S A PROPHETESS," I WOULD'VE RUN.
GLORIA: YES. BILLYE: AND SHE PREACHED. SHE WAS 75 AT THE
TIME. SHE LIVED MANY MORE YEARS, BUT SHE DRESSED LIKE SHE WAS 75.
I'M PAST 75, BUT I DON'T DRESS LIKE THAT, YOU KNOW? SHE HAD A
LITTLE BUN, HAD HER LITTLE CLOTHES. GLORIA: WELL, I WAS
TRYING TO THINK OF--THE OTHER DAY OF THE PROPHECY THAT WAS SO
BIG. BILLYE: YEAH, I'M GOING TO TALK ABOUT THAT, SURE. GLORIA:
OKAY, GOOD. BILLYE: OKAY. NOW, HERE-- GLORIA: REFRESH MY MIND.
BILLYE: --SHE SAID--HERE SHE'S PREACHING WITH THE OFFICE OF A
PROPHET. GLORIA: A WOMAN. BILLYE: A WOMAN. THE ROOM FILLED
WITH GOD. I SAID, "THAT'S--THAT'S ONE OF THE BEST
PREACHING I'VE EVER HEARD, AND SHE'S OUT OF ORDER." GLORIA:
(LAUGHS) BILLYE: BUT MAYBE SHE'LL BE--WHEN SHE GETS TO THE
JUDGMENT SEAT OF CHRIST, SHE'LL BE ON THE LEVEL WITH THE MEN
PREACHERS WHO WERE NOT FAITHFUL. I FIGURED IT OUT. SO ANYWAY, 11
YEARS LATER, I WAS WORKING FOR BROTHER HAGIN, KENNETH E. HAGIN
MINISTRIES, AND THE LORD SAID, "WHY DON'T YOU GO GET THE TAPE
AND LISTEN TO WHAT SHE SAID?" HERE'S WHAT SHE SAID: "DO YOU
KNOW WHY YOU'RE HERE FROM THE NORTH, THE SOUTH, THE EAST, THE
WEST?" YOU WERE FROM FORT WORTH, I WAS JUST FROM UP THE ROAD. SHE
SAID, "IT'S BECAUSE GOD IS RAISING UP HIS END-TIME ARMY."
GLORIA: AN END-TIME ARMY. BILLYE: "AND YOU ARE SOME OF THE
CHIEFS OF THE CLAN." IF YOU WOULD HAVE THOUGHT GOD--THOSE
WERE THE CHIEFS OF THE CLAN, YOU WOULD'VE HAD PRAYER FROM GOD.
GLORIA: YEP. BILLYE: HERE WE WERE, CHARISMATICS-- GLORIA:
NOW, THAT WAS IN THAT SHARING ASSEMBLY, WAS THAT-- BILLYE: NO,
NO. THAT WAS IN-- GLORIA: WHERE WAS IT? BILLYE: --1029 NORTH
UTICA, BROTHER HAGIN'S OFFICE, YOU REMEMBER THAT LITTLE BITTY
OLD ROOM? AND WE WERE WRITING IN OUR BIBLES FOR THE FIRST TIME
BECAUSE BROTHER HAGIN TOLD US WE COULD. AND SHE SAID, "BECAUSE
YOU ARE GOING TO BE SOME OF THE CHIEFS OF THE CLAN, I AM
RELEASED TO TELL YOU A VISION I HAD." AND SHE HAD A VISION OF
THE LAST DAYS OF THE CHURCH. AND SHE SAW THE CHURCH LYING DOWN
FLAT, IMMOBILE, WEAK. SHE SAW A GLORY BEYOND A VEIL. SHE SAW
HEADS COMING THROUGH FROM THE OTHER SIDE. SHE SAW PEOPLE HERE
IN THE GLORY, GOING THROUGH THE VEIL. THEY BECAME A GROUP AND
AMALGAMATED, AND THEY MINISTERED TO THAT CHURCH THAT WAS SO DOWN.
AND IT STOOD UPON ITS FEET AND BECAME THE GLORIOUS CHURCH--
GLORIA: PRAISE GOD. BILLYE: --THAT THE BIBLE TALKS ABOUT.
GLORIA: MM, MM, MM. BILLYE: THE HOLY GHOST. GLORIA: I REMEMBER
THAT WELL. MY, MY. SISTER GRACE. GLORY TO GOD. I'M TELLING YOU,
PEOPLE, WE'VE GOT A GREAT HERITAGE BEHIND US. AND THOSE
THINGS CAN'T--THAT TRUTH BEGAN--BEGAN TO COME OUT A PIECE
AT A TIME-- BILLYE: YES. GLORIA: --TILL FINALLY WE GOT IT.
BILLYE: FINALLY WE GOT IT, PRAISE THE LORD! GLORIA: BILLYE
AND I'LL BE RIGHT BACK.
