How to make money in SEO with Jacky Chou

all right Jackie so thanks so much for for coming on taking some time out of your busy schedule so the main goal of this podcast is basically like I know you're one of the most vocal guys um in terms of making money with SEO also if you're not following Jackie on Twitter go follow him also on YouTube you've been popping off on YouTube recently dude that the building public is insane yeah definitely not popping off but um you are consistent definitely consistent yeah yeah it's really good it's so recommend you guys check him out there but I want to talk about how to make money in SEO um in 2024 right I think a lot of people are worried about what's coming what's happening and you're clearly making a ton of money um and you're doing it in more ways than I'm doing it so you're definitely perfect person to talk to about this specifically so I want to run through like a list of just business ideas um inside of the SEO n and then you tell me how you're doing it would you recommend doing it in 2024 and how you how you attack all these ideas right cool so starting off with affiliate I think this is probably your biggest is this biggest income source for you yeah yeah affiliate well uh do you bundle a display ads with affiliate as well okay yeah yeah let's just bundle those yeah okay yeah then yes absolutely um so affiliate 2024 what are you thinking uh I am thinking still around I would say affiliate revenue is very much going to be still around I think display ad with the removal of third party cookies are going to get clapped pretty hard yeah it's going to get clapped also dude I think you might be the reason that everyone in the SEO space says clapped I don't know I haven't heard it from anybody else it might be you I don't even know where I got it from um definitely not the pioneer of that word but uh yeah it's weird you might be dud you might be okay so let's say I'm I'm brand new to SEO 2024 I want to get into affiliate how how would you how would you do that how would you tackle that um so so there's two ways I would do it in 2024 one would be just starting it from brand new uh going from scratch um I don't recommend doing expired or auction domains in 2024 uh interesting Google C cashes up pretty quickly now um yeah I think there was a couple comments in my previous YouTube video where I talked about how to find expired or auction domains and yeah it really got me thinking now that I think about it I don't think I've ever seen an expired domain or auction domain live for more than two years in the last couple years that I've seen um and that's I have also have like really expensive auction domains but they make a lot of money in the short term so if you're after the short-term gains then do that you know and uh with the affiliate side you can also tackle uh you could I think parasites are here to stay for a while yeah um but it'll be like like a game of cat and mouse so like Outlook India would work for three months Google would clap it and then it's onto Google Groups or LinkedIn pulse and then that'll get clapped and then it's it's so on and so forth so if you're after like short-term gains parasite is the way to go long-term gains from scratch doing it right um and finally I think Partnerships is probably the way for Affiliates yeah moving forward yeah yeah we're GNA we're going to get into Partnerships in a bit how would you do link building for a brand new affiliate website are you still going with the usual Niche edits guest post or you think of something different 2024 um I think you need a lot more variety in 2024 um I would say it's more along the lines of you you need a bit of everything and yeah uh you definitely need a bit of everything so like citations as well um Niche edits guest posts all that good stuff just treat it like a real business right like if you have a tech startup you're not focused on Niche edits focus on like your general strategy type of thing right yeah any any niches that you think are ripe for the maybe we don't have to about yeah yeah I mean always uh I I'm always bullish on the home Niche it's Evergreen you don't have to update the content um in the supplement space there's always like if huberman talks about something you probably should get on that right away like um there's there's articles where we've written and like on H there's 100 searches a month but then some celebrity talks about it and it goes up to like 100k a month and then you just Bank absolutely so hard yeah so you just have to catch trends like in 2024 got it okay yeah just got to stay active right cool affiliate that's a thumbs up we're doing affiliate then um agency are you are you going hard on agency I'm going hard on agency are you going hard AG yeah um not not in the traditional sense we're not really taking retainers right now um obviously we'll take it if people are really begging but then I think we're we've since raised our minimum retainer to like something crazy like 10K a month um because we don't really want to deal with that right um and as I touched on earlier uh I think primarily it from Partnerships now okay yeah so let's say you are thinking of starting like a just like you want to get into the client space how do you get that first client in 2024 first client are they are they hold am I am I like just starting out and I've ranked just starting out yeah just starting out and I've ranked a couple sites yeah there's some creative ways you can do it you could do like I I've always done when I was young like rank guaranteed um and it's it's quite easy like I'm not going to be not going to lie like for example over we're in Vancouver and I want to rank for best burner be realtor 100 searches a month it's quite easy like it's quite sad if you can't do it you know maybe you should question yourself if you can't do it um and there's like certain creative ways to do it for example one example I've been doing on Twitter live is like ranking for best Vancouver realtor using a parasite asset so India if everyone goes right now I think middle of uh uh December it's uh Outlook India is number one for best Vancouver realtor and what you can do is actually go uh do Outreach say hey um I rank for best Vancouver realtor check this out I ranked you at first place and if they don't pay you go on to the next one so on and so forth you know um cre yeah yeah smart I like that get them get them in the door I like that okay so can you talk to me about your Partnerships because I think you were probably the first person that at least that I heard speaking about um Partnerships so what does this look like so instead of taking that referral uh sorry instead of taking that monthly uh cut of however much that the SEO package is you're splitting revenue or you're you're doing some type of other commission structure right mhm I think um the idea actually didn't come to me by itself um so I've been posting ship posting on Twitter for a couple like a year and a half um a healthtech startup founder reached out to me saying hey um Jackie we're running out of we're out of Runway we're going to go bankrupt in a couple months um we have this huge Health site that does a couple million sessions a month but we can't seem to monetize properly so we need to monetize quickly and efficiently I took one look at the site it was like a dr6 at the time and I was like yeah we could do it and he's like but I can't pay you could we do some sort of rev share agreement and I thought to myself it's a bit of a risk we've never really done this before but let's try it out right and so we struck out um we struck on like a really like a really low deal on the display ad side but a really strong 50/50 on the affiliate commission side so we just started pumping out affiliate articles and the the rest was history so we don't actually split Revenue that they get from their main core product for example if they're a if they sell like trt uh they have like online trt services we don't take a cut of that we actually take a cut of the affiliate commissions that's on their blog post so it's like completely separate from their core product and we just take a repture on top of anything we we generate um and yeah it's just piggybacking off of their existing Authority right because if they raise $100 million in VC funding all that spent into PR they have like a huge team before and now if they're struggling they're they're looking for ways to make money and that's where we comeing and we've been able to scale this initial partnership from 0 to 300K a month in less than three months it's freaking wild man gez three months yeah it's crazy gez and so it's just pumping out affiliate content just just um it's well it's it's way more complicated than that actually it's once you post it and if you just rank you know Amazon articles you're you're going to get paid like 50k a month so how do you go like a step further is for example if we rank for best protein powder we'll go reach out to the top protein powder companies we'll be like yo pay us 20K a month we'll put you on number one and 50% commissions on top of that and it's like a no-brainer for the protein powder company right if they have like a 90% like gross margin it's they still make money on it and they're seen as number one so yeah we've locked in a lot of these uh I call it retail Rank and rents and it's Bonkers that actually takes up majority of the revenue and it requires a lot of sales so we have to we've scaled up to like three full-time sales people just pounding like emails which is inter yeah and so the actual so you're only doing off like piggybacking off someone else's Authority exactly and then you reach out to another third party company you're essentially just like middl Manning three or four different things at the same time yeah yeah but then yeah um a lot of people can what I've heard is like why can't they just do it themselves dude there's no chance I I like I thought about it how can they have the expertise to not only know how to rank uh do the keyword research and know the industry enough to like do Outreach into thousands of Brands every week you know it's it's it like I'm struggling I don't know how these people will ever do it and know people in the s space it's impossible yeah and plus they have their full-time jobs you know they have their own exactly to deal with yeah exactly yeah um interesting and so how do you find these Partnerships I know probably a lot of these come to you now right because don't have a name for doing that right now um but if you're brand new to the space what's the best way of getting into that yeah there's I I did an example Live on YouTube but how what I did was you should start small you can't start off with a dr90 software company doing like 10 million a year you're like no offense if you're nobody they're not going to talk to you but if for example I grew up in Vancouver if I go to a well-known restaurant and you know I talk I I go often it's a restaurant I fre I know the owner there popular restaurant in downtown Vancouver like shambar which just so happens to be dr50 interesting boom kitchen wear affiliate site boom recipe site you know like you gota like think creatively and I think that's something seos are kind of they're they're missing the mark there yeah yeah do you have any I just I really like this like this this type of business that that you've gotten yourself into do you have any other like cool case or ways of of getting these type of clients that that you could talk talk to us about um you mean like these Partnerships or getting the ranking RS um Partnerships Partnerships you just got to start small man um there have been smaller Dr sites that I've partnered up with and they're doing quite well too it's like Niche dependent it's kind of wild so um I think one public case study that I've done is faren away. which is my e-commerce company that was actually my initial pilot and while it's not like 300K a month it's doing 10 to 15K a month and we take those you know um but but hold on but that's your e-commerce right yeah but it's like my I have a business partner there too right it's not just mine uh I had to pitch my business partner hey I want to pound our site with affiliate articles and informational content that's irrelevant to our e-commerce site right so this was like a two-year proof of concept like we have we I can't just pump it out right I had to slowly scale up show my business partner Albert that we're able to start generating revenue and yeah I think it's very important because e-commerce I don't know if you know but it uh they operate e-commerce companies operate at like 10 maximum 20% net margins at all times so it's like a cash flow week um company so if you're able to generate you know 10 to 20K additional free cash flow every month it's extremely valuable so I think Ecom Partnerships could be another easy way to do it nice I like that yeah yeah so the actually the next um business idea is e-commerce and so you have Far and Away um that's going super well is does the revenue so you you were saying the the affiliate revenue is adding like 10 to 20% no or is it it is it kind of similar uh so affiliate revenue is just 10 to 15K flat um farway did like multi6 figures in November for example oh damn okay but you know net margins may be only 20 to 30% during that time good so you know if you tap on an additional 10 to 15K it's really great right and I think it's worth mentioning that if we I mean we do we run a lot of pay as to Far and Away right so that sends a ton of positive signals to Google because people are searching a brand name they going into our socials you know all those great um let's just say eat signals but yeah so that's why I think I'm bullish on e-commerce Partnerships ESP especially there's some Brands spending like seven figures a month man I think it's like a no-brainer yeah yeah brilliant cool um what about Rank and rent that's something that uh actually I started doing Rank and rent in Vancouver um nice I was ranking for best Kitsilano dentist in the Kitsilano area um haven't done that in a while how are you seeing that in 2024 you think that's still profitable still possible yeah yeah we we um we approach it a bit differently than like the likes of James douly um who's doing some great work in the UK yeah uh people who say that it's like he's not doing that type of work or like he's some sort of phony or like idiots because Rank and rents actually quite simple so if if if you're not an idiot you could probably do it it's just they're doing it at scale and the haters are just sitting at home um but we approach they hating on what's the like a lot of people say James dly aren't like it's not doing the numbers he's saying he's doing but like a quick check you can find like his assets it's pretty easy like what are you what are you guys talking about like and it's always always like high CBA niches for example each job would be 20 to 30k you know like that type of stuff um and if you charge 10K a month per per asset per city um you scale that across multiple cities in the UK it's the math works out so like don't yeah I think people do your research before hating but how we approach it is um so for example with these partnership sites we just tap on not only do we do like affiliate articles we also do like a directory so like for example if we're taking on a job Board site we' create like an SEO agency directory um and we just copy you know clutch.co have you heard of them yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah those those do like 30 mil a year selling like Yelp style ads to SEO companies and we've spent I've I've spent 20K a month with clutch and the the deals you get from there are incredible it's crazy so what we do is we just replicate clutch for dentists clutch for daycares clutch for real estate agents which we are um and just reach out to real estate agents so it's more of a directory than a like directory Rank and rent as opposed to like a single domain Rank and rs which I I think James does yeah yeah and so are you doing like a like are you going like full Yelp you're targeting all the different cities in in an area PR on programmatically as well on that jaw board for example um yeah it would be like jobboard.com agency and then they'll do it um God damn yeah but we've yeah we want to scale that like pretty big because but one trouble we're having is like closing these these people most people don't want to pay right so we're just taking ad Revenue which is fine um but we I just want to make some money uh so yeah it's it's been easier in some niches like in the high-risk niches for example cannabis industry in Canada uh we're able to yeah e i I messaged two people I would get like all right we're in for 2K a month like that type of stuff yeah yeah whereas real estate agents in Vancouver who close like multi-million dollar deals won't pay 500 bucks a month it doesn't make sense I don't know uh so yeah that's interesting yeah I had the same issue with dentists I almost got sued because they thought I was like pretending to be because I was ranking number one for that keyword and then was the whole thing so I've always found that it's it's kind of kind of hard to like sell that business like sell a ranking R so interesting okay and in terms of other local SEO stuff you're doing is it just that type of directory um yeah I think mostly directory stuff um directories are a great way of getting clients as well so you know you you have already proven that you can rank for for example best Vancouver realtor you're like all right I want to dominate more than one slot on the front page can you rank me as well um so it's a great way of getting local clients local clients pay like though like Max Max 2K a month which is honestly it's like it's great for someone starting out but it's it's tiring it's tiring if you get like you get five of those and you make 10K a month you know and got a 10 people yeah sorry five people breathing down your neck it's a it's a lot of work yeah so what's your plan for for SEO in in in 2024 like where are you focusing most of your energy what do you think is like the biggest potential um in terms of just making money terms of making money um so I think informational content is dead is going to be dead in the next like two years so if you're relying heavily on display ads and you don't if you're fully relying on Google traffic yeah definitely clapped like I would put that at like a 90% certainty 90% certainty in five years like your revenue is going to be gone um because someone who searches can dogs eat lettuce is going to be like s like sge 100% taking that like next week type of thing whereas like stuff that uh needs a bit more Nuance like best testosterone boosters for men over 50 they want to kind of read reviews you know like stuff that have higher impact to your health um so I think bullish on affiliate very very bullish yeah so display ads clapped 100% um it's like the perfect storm of SG plus a third party cookie removal like how anyone who's bullish on that like needs to check themselves like it's it's crazy yeah doesn't make sense yeah and so given that you're so bullish on on affiliate what's the plan is it are you like thinking like buying new websites or are you just like doubling on what you already have I think I want to close the loop um in 2024 so what that means is partnership sites um so right now we have like mult multiple Partnerships targeting the same keyword so in there's cases where we own like four or five slots on like super competitive supplement keywords 10 so why don't I just launch a supplement company right yeah um and like think bigger right yeah what am I going to do with all this cash flow right I'm not gonna just ape into some like shitcoin during the crypto Bull Run um I'm gonna like try to build something more resilient right um right and we'll see because I have some like great Partners right now for um who I've met on Twitter for who sell like supplements um maybe we could strike up some sort of partnership there uh yeah because we got a lot of insights into the industry right we know what's popping off right now there's there's some key words that show on at that's like 50 searches a month but the volume of like the gross volume we're pushing to Amazon is like 3K a day it doesn't make sense like yeah like the the tools aren't showing it but we're able to provide that Insight I passed it on to Partners I'm like you guys should look into this and maybe instead of doing that we partner on some sort of equity basis or I launch that product in the future I don't know um yeah I I've done a supplement company before it was a lot of headache but yeah right yeah it's interesting because I had the same question for for James who James dly who's doing all this Rank and rent stuff it's like why don't you just start a construction company you know you're ranking for like best construction company in Manchester just cut the other guy out obviously it's a pain in the ass to start those companies to do all those things but there might be niches where that makes a lot more sense you know yeah yeah exactly um especially when you can guarantee volume uh yeah what that yeah yeah because historically let's say you see every day in your Amazon Associates account that you're pushing one grand a day on this specifically specific product you can launch on Amazon get like 10 reviews and maybe you'll take a 50% haircut but 500 bucks a day we take those you know right yeah so I think my goal for 2024 is to like think bigger and not to you know like rolling rolling up Partnerships is great and all but that's not the end goal right because what do you mean by rolling up so like if I get 20 Partners all in the same Niche you know I've already dominated the first page like what am I going to do do the second page it doesn't make sense like you know you reach saturation in a niche very quickly so I think we need to expand into other niches number one or start our own brand um yeah interesting yeah I I do really want to go into agency directory like clutch I have very much in my like like uh in my plans like creating a clutch clone yeah it's it's it's a lot of money dude um what about like diversifying traffic sources are you potentially worried about just losing a ton of traffic on Google in the next years are you thinking about like uh Pinterest traffic are you are you dabbling in any that stuff no no I think full stop no uh we do do quite a bit of paid on Far and Away so I could tap my partner on the shoulder and be like yo uh we need to figure out something here but I think Pinterest you know Google discover anything that depends on virality to make money I think I find inconsistent and it's hard to make projections for so it's like the group who sell Google discover traffic courses like makes no sense to me it's completely random like I have I have sites that get thousands every day from discover traffic I don't even know what the hell I'm doing like half the time but it just keeps popping off so right if if I don't know um like what the hell are you guys selling a course for you know like are you gonna sell a course on uh featured image Dimensions like come on like relax um all right dude and and to finish up here your predictions for SEO in 2024 who's going to get clapped yeah we've said informational content but yeah um I would say informational content for sure uh the niche site Community majority's clapped uh really yeah dude if you see thoughts on that dude I mean because if you check out the front page it's like Forbes Forbes you got what is it CNET you you have like the huge private Equity groups rolling them up all these Brands they control like main if you take a look at uh was it gleb GL Glenn asob the AR guy his his analysis on the Surs is essentially they're all owned by uh huge companies MH um Niche sites have been clapped over and over again Google they're very clear clear on that that uh they don't like Niche sites so what do I do in response to that you partner up with one of the big companies and that's what a partnership is right so you fight fire with fire you're not gonna you're not going to pull up with your dr5 n site with like full topical Authority on dogs trying to compete with for you know like like chill man yeah relax um and so U this is kind of a question side but you're not starting any brand new websites in 2024 are you brand brand new SEO like SEO based no but um s products for sure um s products for sure uh probably Focus some more on the community um I'm not sure if you checked that advise is popping the off man um yeah like it's yeah that that one is like a surprise to me because when we started off it was a great one like we did, 1500 a month but then it like slowly died because I'm like ignoring it but then once you start focusing on it and you talk more about it and the community is like pretty bumping people like refer each other and dude now we got like over a 100 people in there and it's like damn active as uh it's crazy out here yeah F I think I think communities some sort of community built around a single goal which I think everyone in the community is like purely moneymaking they're not like the traditional in-house SEO who's like chatting about oh yeah yo uh schema is schema is crazy out here like you know like it's it's it's it's a different type of uh I I let's just say I attract a different SEO Persona than for sure the uh yeah and um are you are you still quite bullish on on your personal brand on continuing to just post on Twitter Youtube yeah I think so yeah yeah um I I actually did a interiew interview Style video with Luke Jordan I don't know if you know him um the guy from the UK he's got a gaming site uh and yeah I I for some reason I'm pretty sure with the amount of followers or subscribers on YouTube I I I still make quite a bit of money it's it's kind of crazy um so I think most people can make a ton of money with very few viewers if if you can just dial in on your content like I've tried to show my friends my YouTube channel and they have no idea what I'm talking about like they can't sit through it right so the people who can actually sit through it have a certain level of expertise in SEO they probably make a certain amount of money as well like minimum you know so this audience is quite valuable um so yeah bullish on that going to focus on that um and I think you should too as you are yeah absolutely amazing dude well thanks for coming on where can people find you I know there's like a hundred links you can you can give out right now let's go yeah yeah yeah um subscribe to marketing letter.com to see uh my net worth and my weekly multi multi- times a week newsletter um you got me on indexi which I guess you'll drop somewhere in the description below yeah absolutely on all platforms which is YouTube Twitter um most active on Twitter though hella posts there yeah def go f and uh revenue for last month revenue for last month dude pretty high man uh that's an alltime high at 500k God damn yeah it was crazy damn but then dude profits was only like well not only it was like high 30s so high 30% yeah still amazing dude still a pretty good month yeah pretty good not complaining not complaining cannot complain yeah can complain all right man well thanks for coming I really appreciate it yo good chatting again man see you

Channel: Jaume Ros

Views: 13,394

Keywords: jacky chou, how to make money with SEO, how to make money in seo, jacky chou indexsy, indexsy, jacky chou seo

Id: xBByWnX5TGI

Length: 31min 3sec (1863 seconds)

Published: Fri Dec 08 2023