Is there a supernatural
dimension? a world beyond the one we know? Is there
life after death? Do angels exist? Can our dreams contain messages
from Heaven? Can we tap into ancient secrets
of the supernatural? Are healing miracles real? Sid Roth has spent over 35 years
researching the strange world of the supernatural. Join Sid for this edition of
It's Supernatural! Sid: Hello. Sid Roth here. Welcome to my world where it's
naturally supernatural. My guest was a pastor for ten
years of a spiritual congregation and never heard the
voice of God and he got desperate, and he had a
visitation and he was given four keys that he says a hundred
percent of the people that will do what he says can hear God as
well as him, if not better. Anyone interested? I'm so excited to talk to Dr.
Mark Virkler because Dr. Virkler heard from God supernatural on
how every true believer can do what the Bible says could be
normal, normal as defined by the Bible, hear God's voice daily
for themselves. Now there was a time, Mark, when
you as a pastor in a spirit-filled church did not
hear God's voice. What did you do about it? Mark: I struggled for ten years
and I tried everything that I thought would work. I read more scripture. That didn't work. I fasted longer. That didn't work. I asked people who heard God's
voice, "What does it sound like?" They said, ""Well you just know
that you know." And I said, "No , I don't know,
which is why I'm asking you. That doesn't help me at all. Tell me what his voice sounds
like." And no one could explain what
God's voice sounded like, and everything I tried didn't work. I went to Bible college, got a
degree, I got ordained as a minister. All those things are supposed to
work, I thought. Sid: So he got desperate and he
decided, I'm going to take a year and do nothing but pray
that I hear God's voice and do as much study as I can. And he got desperate, and as he
got desperate, about six months in, suddenly what happened? Mark: The Lord woke me up about
five o'clock in the morning with a booming bass voice, which is
the only time in my entire life I heard a booming bass. But he said, "Mark, get up. I'm going to teach you to hear
my voice." And I bolted straight up in bed,
I went over to my office and I sat down with my Bible, and he
led me to Habakkuk 2:1 and 2, and he showed me four things
that Habakkuk did that allowed him to hear the voice of God, to
see vision and to write out page after page of what God was
saying to him. Sid: Let me tell you what
happened when he started hearing God's voice. Let's start with your marriage. What happened to your marriage? Mark: Well my wife said that her
marriage improved greatly when I began to hear God's voice. Sid: I could understand that. Mark: And it's because, you
know, the Lord in my journal would say, "Mark," he would say,
"love your wife." And I'd say, "I'm going to as
soon as I fix her." And he said, "No, I didn't say
to fix her. I said love your wife." I said, "I'm going to as soon as
I fix her." He said, "Mark, love your wife." Fifty times he told me to love
my wife just the way she was without trying to change her
personality, make her more like me. He said, "She's fine the way she
is." And I mean, this like
Christianity 101. You just honor people and love
them. Sid: Okay. Your children, how did it affect
your relationship there or them? Sid: Well at that point in
point, we had brought a teenage girl into our home, like a
foster child. She had run away from her
parents' home and her parents went to our church, and they let
us bring her into our home. She's breaking all the household
rules, acting very rebellious and I'm really upset with her. And I wanted to just kind of
punch her out in Christian love and say, "Look, if you're going
to stay here, you need to keep these rules." And so before I did, I journaled
and I said, "Lord, what about this girl?" And as the Lord spoke, he said,
"She's very insecure." I said, "Really?" And he said, "Yeah. I want you to love her
unconditionally." And I said, "Really?" Because I had a lot of
conditions. Here's my rules. Here's my rules. Sid: You were going to do the
exact opposite of what God knew was the key to her heart. Mark: Yeah. Because I was looking at the
outside façade of rebellion. God was looking at the wounded
heart of insecurity and saying, "Minister to her heart, not her
outer façade." And so he had me to the true
part of her. It made me a better parent and
instantly improved my relationships with everybody. Sid: Okay. How did it change you in
ministry? Mark: Well in ministry, I
learned that I could preach from flow, I could counsel from flow,
I could teach from flow. And the Lord said, "Mark," he
said, "your teaching style will be transformed.." Sid: Excuse
me. You're using a term, "flow". What is that? Mark: Flow, that is one of those
four keys that God taught me that morning. He says his voice sounds like
flowing thoughts and his vision comes as flowing pictures. And the scripture verse backs it
up. Jesus said, "Out of your inner
most being shall flow rivers of living water." This, he spoke in the Spirit. So when we want to tune to the
Holy Spirit with this, we sense him as a flow. So flowing words, flowing
thoughts is his voice. Flowing visions are, flowing
pictures are his vision. And I didn't know that because I
had no theology from flow. So I began to speak from flow. I began to think in flow. I began to counsel from flow. Sid: So how did your messages
get different as a result? Mark: Well the more fun-loving
and less rigid or less control, less law, instead of, here's a
Bible verse, see if you can keep it and if you cannot, I'll beat
you and I'll whip, you know, I noticed Jesus wasn't doing that
with me. He would never. And I asked him. I said, "Don't you want to hit
me for sinning here?" He said, "No, it's covered by
the blood. It's fine. It's a learning curve mistake. Don't worry about it. Let's press on. It's fine." And because he treated me that
way, I began to preach that way. And yeah, we make some mistakes. That's okay. It's learning curve mistakes. And I didn't preach harsh law
anymore. Here's a law, try to keep it. I'd preach who Jesus was inside
of you, learning to attune to him, and flow in and out of him. Sid: His Word says, "My sheep,
hear my voice." And you were going to hear God's
voice. We'll be right back. We'll be right back to
It's Supernatural! We now return to
It's Supernatural! Sid: You know, one of the things
I notice about Dr. Virkler is he smiles a lot. He laughs a lot. Were you always this way? Mark: No. I was very, very stuck in the
mud and very sober, and very control-oriented. And when I began to journal and
use vision, and I saw Jesus, he was laughing hilariously all the
time. And I said, "Lord, you know, I'm
so uptight here." He said, "Mark, relax. I got everything under control. It's okay." And he taught me to laugh. Sid: Now actually, I've heard
from a medical viewpoint, laughing releases chemicals
inside the body that heal you. Mark: It's absolutely healing,
and we as Christians, we need to laugh. A merry heart does good like
medicine. It heals our body. So he wants us to be healthy, so
he draws us into laughter. Sid: Okay. Tell me again what Jesus said to
you and then the four supernatural keys that came from
Heaven on how to hear God's voice. And by the way, is this
something for everyone or just special people like you, you're
a minister. Mark: This is for everybody. All right. I've taught it from five year
olds up to 92-year-olds. They've all heard the voice of
God. If they will use these four keys
we guarantee them. They will hear the voice of God. And it's worked for 35 years,
all over world on all the continents I've taught it on. Sid: Tell me what God told you
and what are the four keys. Mark: All right. So the Lord said, "I'm going to
teach you to hear my voice." So he took me to Habakkuk 2:1
and 2. Now Habakkuk is a prophet he
could hear the voice of God. Sid: That's what makes him a
prophet. Mark: That's what makes him a
prophet. And so he says, "I'm going to my
guard post," which means, go have a quiet place to get alone
with God. And I think all of us knew that
was important. All right. So I quiet myself down. And then Habakkuk said, that was
key number one, "Just quiet yourself down" with some soft
soaking music. Great way to do it, I mean, King
David, he used soft music in the background 24/7, just beautiful
worship music. It's a great way to quiet
yourself down. And then Habakkuk said, "I'm
going to keep watch to see what the Lord is going to speak." And I said, what? You should be saying, I'm going
to listen to hear what the Lord is going to speak. I mean, because what are you
trying to see? I mean, when I'm trying to hear
God's voice, I'm not trying to see anything, I'm trying to hear
it. And the Lord said, "Mark, vision
is a very important part of prayer and you should take the
eyes of your heart, and you should pray over them like Paul
prayed. I prayed that the eyes of your
heart would be enlightened. And you should fix them on
Jesus, and you should see Jesus present with you." Sid: Wait a second. This sounds like visualization,
which is a new age concept. Mark: Right, exactly and it
might also be a biblical concept. You just never know. Sid: Give me a scripture. Mark: Well how about Acts 2:25,
David. David says, "I behold the Lord
always in my presence. He's at my right hand and I will
not be shaken." And in Psalm 16:8, where he's
quoting that from, he says, "I have set the Lord at my right
hand." So that means, he took and
decided to picture the Lord right there. Sid: And just because the new
age copies biblical things doesn't mean we should throw the
baby out with the dirty bath water. Mark: Well the fact they copied
that means it was worth enough to copy. You don't copy one-dollar bills. You only copy twenties and
fifties. So I don't throw anything out to
be copied. I find what's the bill value,
let's do it. We say, "A picture is worth a
thousand words." So maybe if I see Jesus here
next to me, it might have a thousand times more power to
impact my life than just thinking he's next to me. And so I'm going to turn my
theology into pictures. Sid: I have to ask you, what
does Jesus look like when you visualize him? Mark: Well for me, he has long
flowing white robes. He's got sandals on his feet,
very gentle, loving countenance, eyes that twinkle, big smile on
his face. That's what I normally see. All right. And when I first started seeing
vision, I only saw him from the shoulders on down. Sid: I was going to ask you that
because many people have never had a vision of Jesus. In fact, most believers never
have. So you kind of started without
even seeing his face. Mark: That's right. You know, and then after a week
or two, I did begin to see his eyes twinkling and a big smile
on his lips and other people have told me the same thing. They start with his shoulders on
down, and as you move into intimacy and you use the eyes of
your heart purposefully, more appears. And the more intensely you look,
the more you see, too. And you know, we define this as
godly imagination. We say, godly imagination is
picturing those things that God says are so. So I'm not afraid of godly
imagination. I have a definition for it. If God says Jesus is with me, I
can picture that and then I can do more than that. I can say, Holy Spirit, take
over this scene. Bring it alive so it's more than
a godly imagination. Let me step into a flowing
vision. And as I release it, I step into
a flowing vision and I step from a godly imagination into a
vision, and I do it all the time. And everyone who is listening
can do that every single day of their life, and they can see
vision all the time. Sid: Now Mark talks about
something that is so intriguing to me, because I've heard a lot
of other people talk about this, and that is, he can go into the
Throne Room of God for godly wisdom. How would you like some godly
wisdom on some of the things going on in your life right now? Tell me about this going into
the Throne Room. Mark: Well a prophet said to me,
"Well why don't you ask the Lord where he wants to meet you." And I said, okay. And I said, "Lord, where do you
want to meet me?" He said, "I'd like to meet you
in Heaven." I said, "Why?" He said, "Because I live there." And I said, "Well of course, you
want to show me around your home, right?" And so it's a matter of
selecting a different picture. So instead of me deciding to
picture of Jesus at the Sea of Galilee, I decided to picture
him in Heaven there with him, because I am in Heaven. So are you. We are seated with Christ in
heavenly places. Sid: That's right. The scripture says that we're in
two places at one time. Mark: Exactly. Sid: We're here and according to
Ephesians, we're there. Mark: So, exactly. And so I can either think that
I'm seated with him or I can see myself seated with him. If it's okay to think it, it's
okay to see it. Sid: Tell me about, and because
I really relate to his, seeing all the things that are coming
on this earth right now. Just hearing the news every day,
you can get to be a very negative person, and this is
what happened to Mark. What did you do about that? Mark: I was looking at
Washington, D.C. in my mind's eye and I was
saying, I don't like what I see. I'm very, I see a lot of evils
and improper behavior. Sid: You don't have to tell us. We all see the same thing. Mark: And I was full of anger at
what I saw, and I was full of fear. And I thought, well those aren't
gifts of the Holy Spirit, those aren't fears of the Holy Spirit. There's something wrong. And so I said, "Lord, what's
wrong?" He said, "Well you're looking at
Washington, D.C. and you don't see me there." I said, "You're right. I just see politicians." He said, "Well you're not seeing
truth, because the truth is I'm everywhere." I said, "Oh you did mention that
somewhere in the Bible, did you." And so obviously, I'm looking at
a picture that contains a lie, which is Jesus isn't there. So let's throw it out and get a
picture that contains the truth. And I said, "Jesus, where are
you in Washington?" And this is my morning
devotions, and I looked for a vision, and a picture floats
into my mind of Jesus enthroned on a throne, above Washington,
D.C., his flowing robes flowing down over Congress and the White
House, his Glory streaming down over Congress and the White
House. And he said in my heart, he
said, "Mark, I rule in Washington, D.C." Sid: I like that picture. When we come back, we'll get the
rest of these supernatural keys. We'll be right back to
It's Supernatural! We now return to
It's Supernatural! Sid: Do you know what I find so
fascinating? Once you understand these
supernatural keys to hearing God's voice, people, have you
ever seen a pastor stand up and give a prophecy or an evangelist
stand up and have words of knowledge, and you said, boy, I
would like to hear that God. If people use these supernatural
keys, can they flow in the gifts of the Spirit? Mark: Yes. Sid: I mean, just an average
person. Mark: Yes, they absolutely can. It's incredibly simple. If we make this harder than a
child can do, it's not Christianity. So when you're checking out and
the lady is checking you out at the grocery store, you can say,
"Lord Jesus, I know you're standing next to this lady." And you just picture the Lord
next to her and say, "What do you want to say to this lady
right now?" You tune to flow and the flowing
thought that comes to you, share it with them, a word of
encouragement, a word of love, a word of life, the flowing
thought that comes, and you speak it. Sid: But what is the difference
between your own thoughts and a flowing thought. Explain this. Mark: Well my own thoughts are
connected. They're analytical, they're
cognitive. I say, hmm, two plus two is, I
think it's four. That's connected lineal
thinking. Flowing thought, I don't build
it myself. It just comes, it becomes a life
of its own. And if it's coming from the Holy
Spirit, it lines up with the names of Jesus. It's wonderful comfort, it's
counsel, it's light. Sid: So you're telling me you
don't even have to think for this flow to occur? Mark: No. When you think, you cut it off. Sid: Okay. That leads to the fourth key,
journaling. What is journaling? Mark: Journaling is, God said to
Habakkuk, he said, "Inscribe the vision." Get your out pencil and write it
down. So I use my keyboard and I say,
"Lord, what do you want to say to me?" And then I tune to flow, and
when the flow kicks in, I'll just write. I just type or write. Sid: Why do you bother writing? Why don't you just remember? Mark: Ah, because if you write,
you can write in faith for five or ten, or 15 minutes, and God
to talk me for 15 minutes, and I can get a page or two. And because I don't have to test
it now, because I'm going to write in faith, because I know I
can test it later once I've got it all written out. Sid: How do you test it? Mark: I test it by making sure
it's compatible to scripture, alright, and make sure it lines
up with the names of Jesus and the fruit of the spirit, you
know, and the gifts of the spirit, and not the name of
Satan or the fruit of Satan. Alright. It can't be accusative,
negative, destructive or a thief. Alright. So who does it line up with? The Bible says, "The mouth of
two or three witnesses, every reign is confirmed." So I even it up to my wife and a
couple of others and say, "Do you feel in your heart it came
from God?" If they say yes, then I'm going
to run with it at that point in time. Sid: Tell me someone that used
these four supernatural keys and began to operate in, say, a gift
of the Spirit. Pick one person out. Mark: Well one lady is a lady
named Tara and she had become a tremendous blogger where she
could see amazing vision. I mean, way beyond the visions I
see, more precise, more detail. And she blogs them out, she
sends them out and it just opened up that entire ministry
to her of seeing in the spirit. Other people have had dreams. To other people, it's a dream. And I've had a person say, you
know, all the gifts of Spirit just became alive within them
once they learned to tune to flow and hear the voice of God. Sid: You said something so
profound to me about, whatever you focus on, it grows. Explain that. Mark: This is a reigning word
God gave to me many years. He said, "Mark, whatever you fix
your eyes on, grows within you, and whatever grows within you,
you become." And at that point in my, life I
was fixing my eyes on my sinfulness and saying, oh Mark,
you're a miserable sinner. And so sinfulness grew within me
and I became more sinful. And then to overcome it, I would
fix my eyes on biblical law and legalism would grow within me,
and I'd become a legalist. And he said, "Don't do that." He said, "'Fix your eyes on
Jesus,' Hebrews 12:1 and 2, 'and let Jesus grow within you' and
you become Christ-like.'" And so the year that I focused on
abiding in Christ, seeing Jesus with me all the time, he pointed
out at the end of the year that sin that I battled with all of
my life had fallen away as a byproduct of letting Jesus grow
within me. Sid: Okay. I want you to flow right now and
pray a supernatural prayer of impartation for those that are
watching. Mark: Alright. Alright. Let me pray for you right now. Father, I just release for those
that are watching to those with open hearts, I release to you
right now the faith that God has given to me to believe that
there's a river within, which is a river of God, which does flow,
and giving flowing thoughts and flowing visions, God's voice and
God's vision. So I release faith into your
heart right now and I say, faith, arise, faith arise, faith
arise. And I'd like you to just put
your hands out and say, "I receive that gift of faith, I
receive that gift of faith and I choose to believe the river
within me and the flow within me is the river of God, as the
Bible has declared." And as you make that your
declaration, you will walk, you will walk in that river and you
will live in that river, and God will be glorified. Sid: And of course, the main key
before you to activate those four keys is to know God. This is eternal life that you
might know him. I want you to do what the Bible
says. Repeat this prayer out loud
because the Bible says, "If you confess with your mouth, you'll
believe in your heart and you will be rescued." Say, dear God, out loud, dear
God, I'm a sinner. Please forgive me. I believe the blood of Jesus
washes away my sins and I am clean. And now that I am clean, I
boldly proclaim that Jesus is my Messiah and Lord. Jesus, live inside of me. Be my Lord. Amen. Sid: Next week on
It's Supernatural! My guest says that you can
silence Satan forever. Is there anyone interested in
that? Your gifts to this ministry will
help Sid air It's Supernatural in Israel 28 times a week and
distribute his evangelistic book to the Jewish people worldwide.
