Guardian Angel Tells Man What It Was Like When Lucifer Fell & Was Schooled About the Supernatural

[Music] hi everyone this is Jennifer bagnashi with deep believer today we have an amazing guest he's actually a return guest John Fenn with Church Without Walls International c w o w i dot org oh my goodness I'm so excited to have him back again this time he talks about his first encounter with Jesus how he saw him on a road in Mexico he asked Jesus the most hardest questions that we ask or the most not so much hard but most common questions why are people born into difficult households why are children starving and he also gets answers from his Guardian Angel about what their perception was when Lucifer fell from heaven you're going to want to hear all of this and he talks about a whole lot more so don't turn the well John Finn thank you so much for being with us today thank you Jennifer for having me back it's a it's a blessing and pleasure to talk to you well John last time was amazing I mean we love you people love you they love we love the god in you so let's start off we already know about your uh childhood so if anyone is watching right now you can go back to our other video but now we're going to start off with your Road in Mexico you are on a missions trip to Mexico and yes and you were on the road walking with a woman named Doran someone else tell us what happened and how you met Jesus on the road well I I appreciate that um the the very first time I saw him was April of 86 and let me lead that if I could just share into that real quickly um that was when our youngest son was still in the nursery church nursery I was the associate pastor but I was sitting back to be close to the nursery and uh and when I saw the Lord I was just standing next to my wife and suddenly I turned to the right and the Lord was there at the end of the road there wasn't anybody else in the room and this is important distinction because one Builds on the other if you'll allow me that and he he motioned he said come with me and so I walked down the aisle or the row and then up to the front and there was a Navajo Pastor a pastor from the Navajo Nation that our church supported everyone was in worship and everything else and the Lord was standing there and the pastor the Navajo Pastor was the only one sitting and I stood in front of him and the Lord said I have a word I want to give him so I want you to give it and I said Lord you're here why don't you give it and he looked at me and he said just do it and so I put out my hand to lay hands on him and outflowed this prophecy of encouragement and comfort and just really how pleased the Lord was with him and then it started to trickle off uh like turning off a faucet and as his word kind of trickled off the Lord melded into me and and I'm six foot six which is about almost two meters and the Lord's about five eleven you know about what is that 2.8 meters or something 2.7 so or yeah and so or 1.8 1.7 and anyway so he kind of melded into me and he said remember my son when you lay hands on a person it's as if I am laying hands on that person and immediately I was back in my in Ron grow standing next to Barb and the music was still going the song you know it's charismatic church so you got to sing each verse about six times right so so you know I was standing next to her and I said I said Barb I said did I leave here did I leave your side and she said no so I knew that was in the spirit so what it means is that I was standing there physically but in the spirit my eyes were open to his realm and somehow like Paul said in second Corinthians 12 whether in the body or out I don't know when that happens to you it seems very normal very natural the Lord says you know come with me and I just walk down the row I didn't know that I was in the spirit that was my first experience of seeing him so Flash Forward that was April of 1986 so October 1st of 1986. I am in uh Mexico in a village called Laguna De Sanchez which is some way outside of Saltillo New Mexico or Saltillo Mexico The Interpreter was a woman named Dora who'd only known the Lord for about two months and then the missionary named Carl and here's what was happening Jennifer this is that to share the difference so that people can become aware of of our mind has to pick up on what's happening in our spirit man and that's what happened to me first in April is that as I was worshiping my spirit started stirring around in me and here I was a few months later in April or in October and my spirit man is stirring it's almost like having butterflies you know excitement before you get on to Stage or to speak to somebody but it's not a nervousness it's just an excitement and my mind noticed it and this is key to walking in the spirit this is key to being sensitive to having your eyes open his realm it's key to receiving words of wisdom words of knowledge or anything your mind has to pick up on these things so the the missionary Carl and Dora The Interpreter had had gone on ahead and I'm I'm slowing behind I'm I'm contemplating my attention has been grabbed and this this stirring around in my spirit and it's like in my mind I'm going what is going on what is this why do I have this excited Happy Feeling on the inside and right and the road the road made a curve to the right a 90 degree turn to the right and I when I turn to the right it also then in about 20 feet made a law a jog to the left ahead on up the little slope of a hill and back into the main part of the village and so when I turned right I heard myself say Jennifer I didn't I didn't it wasn't like oh that's what it is I heard myself it just came up flowing out of my spirit it's Jesus and when I heard myself say it's Jesus you know it brought my my eyes up off of the rocky road where I was walking it's Jesus and boom suddenly the Lord was standing there about 15 feet away from me just you know three four meters away from me and I looked at him and I said well what are you doing here because you know it's the same way that Peter up on the mountain said hey let's build some tents one for Moses one for Elijah you know let's have a meeting here let's have a camp out because when you're again like I said when you transition into the spirit realm it's it's seamless it's seamless it seems so normal so natural I imagine that's why death would come I imagine that would be the way the Rapture comes there's just a seamless transition that happens and I am and at this point I could see him and everything else around me my eyes were opened up into both Realms at the same time it's rather like in Second Kings 6 when Elisha and his servant are surrounded by the Syrian Army and and the servant is afraid because of all the Chariots and all the horses and everything that are against him and Elisha praise and said Lord open up my servant's eyes and and so he did so says the Lord did so and he saw the Chariots of Fire surrounding them so both men saw both the natural realm and the spirit realm at the same time that's what happens with me most often and that's what happened at that point and so when I said what are you doing here and he said I'm here to meet the needs of the village and I said oh it's great Lord I said I said there people must need healed uh in here so why don't you just walk around the village and and I'll just follow you and I won't get in your way I promise I mean I'm actually saying this this is this is we're you know I won't follow I won't be a bother at all you just you just walk in there just let me observe I'll learn so much if I could just watch you you know lay hands on people and and bring healing to people and and I said how can I help and he said meet the needs of the village and then like that he was gone and I was left standing there I'm going like wow so so you know I'm there to hold a service in the in the little church and I'm thinking about that and I I'm I'm contemplating what does he mean and then suddenly he was there once again he let me he let it sink in and then he he appeared again and I said I said Lord I said this is great I said I need to call tell Carl and Dora that you're here let me get them and I they were going up to the left uh up the road and just talking among themselves so they weren't aware of anything I said let me yell to Carl and door hold on Lord and just as I turn to do that this light came out from the Lord and it just was like a just enveloped everything and I saw Carl and George's disappeared behind this curtain of light and then it was just suddenly the Lord and I in All That Glory uh just standing there you know 15 feet from each other and he said I want to teach you how the father communicates I was like whoa it was just it was so amazing that it seemed just normal you're not overwhelmed thinking oh wow this is so cool I gotta write it down it's just okay this is normal this is nor it just seems some completely normal like a friend might come up and say hey let's talk about you know let's last night's ball game I mean it just seems so normal I was overwhelmed by his presence once I was in the spirit completely once the natural world disappeared I used the phrase in the spirit because that's what the Apostle John used in the Revelation in chapter 1 and verse 10 he talked about in 110 he says I was in the spirit on the Lord's day and I heard a voice that was behind me and that means there was no natural realm he was just in the spirit and then in Revelation 4 and verse 2 it says I was in the spirit and I heard and I saw a door opened in the heaven and I heard a voice saying come up here so again he was totally the natural world wasn't there so initially I could see both Realms at once and then when that light that curtain of light just enveloped us then it was just the Lord and I and I was in the spirit fully so with that no other distraction the love coming out his eyes was just so strong it was so tangible it was all you know I grew up in an age and Men hopefully some of the those watching this and listening will will be able to relate but back when I was a kid there was a cartoon I think his name was Deputy dog and Deputy dog would get a doggy biscuit and when he got that biscuit he would eat it and he would go and he would float up in the air and then he'd float down you're too young for that I think no my father would always no my dad loves cartoons so he's yeah he likes stuff like that I've seen it yet well anyway so that's how I felt because the love coming out of his eyes was like a hammock it was it was so solid I just wanted to run and jump like that cartoon dog and float and just settle into that love it was so totally consuming it was it was really my first lesson in grace that Grace has nothing to do with the receiver of the Grace Grace is always in the heart of the one who gives it and because of that there was such thoughts of my own failings my sins my frailties my imperfections at that point in my life you know I was married three kids I still am married three kids but I'm saying they were younger you know my imperfections as a father my imperfections as a husband you know sins and missteps and everything else all that did not matter at all it was just enveloped in that love and as I looked into his eyes and again you know we're at this point we're maybe 10 feet from each other at this point because I've moved further uh closer to him and and suddenly I am pulled into his eyes and I don't know how to describe it other than standing there with connected by this liquid love and then I'm pulled directly into his mind and into his mind and suddenly I was flying through space and you know I was in the mind of the Lord and I was flying through space all those stars all those galaxies the first thing that struck me is I'm not getting any closer to them now than when I was than how on Earth looking at the stars at night I think you know I was raised you know thinking Star Wars and Star Trek and you just this blur of light and it's like no no no the distances are so vast you know I wasn't getting any closer to anything but I I was just there just in space looking at these stars and somehow intuitively from within me I was curious and I was looking I remember looking to my top left and there really wasn't a top bottom you know left right except as my body was oriented so you know I was looking at my top left and and my eyes were as good as I needed them to be like no matter how I focused I saw more stars behind more stars behind more stars behind more stars you know all the way through and I was looking somehow for some place where his presence did not exist and instead i i s I saw this I I heard this it was like a rolling wave except it was like shimmering um you know shimmering heat on a hot Road surface or something how it kind of shimmers it was like a shimmering wave that was coming back to me and it was his voice saying I am here and it was rolling on it was deep and thundering and I and I remember looking opposite I remember looking down into my lower right as far as my eye could see and it just star upon star upon star just furthest reaches just far far away and again a rolling wave of sound like a shimmering light it was coming was rolling and he said I am here and I suddenly was standing right back in front of him and I said oh Lord you are the Creator you are worthy to be worshiped you are worthy to be glorified in honored all praise to you Lord you are the Creator you are worthy to be worshiped and and that was just my honest exclamation at having done that just suddenly I'm standing before him again and then I looked at him and I said I'm a product of your imagination you thought me up didn't you and he looked at me said that's right I did and I said that means you spent the same amount of time on everybody who has ever lived or ever will live as you spent on me right he said that's right I said that's part of what you were doing before Genesis ever opens up because you were the lamb slain from the foundation of the world you told Jeremiah before you were in your mother's womb I knew you and called you as a prophet said you were thinking us all up before creation ever happened he said that's right and I said well then then in my mind I pictured this images that I've seen again right you know my generation being raised with places you've never heard of Biafra for instance the famine that was going on there in these TV images I remember our first color tv you know and pictures of of a mother holding a trying to nurse a baby and she doesn't have any milk and she's starving herself and the baby is starving and that image from from my childhood from early on came back and and at the same time I thought of uh well first thing I said I said how could you do that I said how could you let little children die like that and be born into such horrible circumstances you're the Creator how could you how could you do that uh for with those babies and he looked at me and he kind of tilted his head and he said don't you know they're with me and in the ages to come they will grow up and fulfill their destinies and I just went oh and then I took the next step and I said okay there's a lady in our church at the time named Maria and she was a single mother chain smoking love the Lord nervous wreck because her her son and her daughter who were teenagers were driving her crazy and I was the associate pastor at the time so I was always over at their house you know getting there before the police were called or when the neighbors were were fighting with them and and stuff and then on the other hand I thought of my childhood friend who was born with a spoon in his mouth a silver spoon in his mouth and had everything that he ever wanted and also claimed to be a Christian and so the the disparity the an equal lives of of the one who was born as a rich kid and claiming to be a Christian had it so easy versus Maria in our church that I was always helping out you know with those kids uh and trying to trying to settle arguments and everything else and so I looked at the Lord said how could you do that I said that's so unequal and he looked at me and he he went back to that he created that he thought us up and he said when I created you I looked through the corridors of time and I have graced each person with the gifts and everything that they would need to get through life as they depend on me remember he said all things were made by me and for me and so for everything to work right it has to be in me so that Maria has to depend on me 100 because I have given her the gifts according to her circumstances and as she depends on me 100 I will see her through and then he referred to my friend and he said similarly your friend has been graced differently and he's been given what appears to you to be shallow gifts but to him it still takes 100 of his effort to rely on me so that both are relying 100 on me according to The Graces that I have created them with just blew my mind it's like wow it suddenly makes sense that's why you know in Romans 12 3 Paul said I speak through the grace given to me I speak through the grace given to me the Accord that the the the measure of faith has been given to everyone I can only speak through the grace given to me you can only speak through the grace given to you Barb and I our oldest son had the umbilical cord around his neck and a slip knot when he was born and so as we speak right now he's 42 years of age but mentally he's about four years old he's in a wheelchair he is the friendliest kid you've ever wanted to see in a 42 year old man's body he is the life of the party he's never met a stranger We Roll his wheelchair through Walmart and through lows and through stores and he is greeting people he's petting dogs he's talking to people he says funny things you know all of that he loves the Lord and he's had the Lord tell him when you get to heaven I'm going to walk through the mountains with you and he's been very excited about that but that is our Measure of Faith we have friends in um another country I won't even mention them because I don't want to necessarily embarrass them but they have a they have a daughter who is worse off than Chris you know just cord around the neck in a slip knot but just a few seconds more caused more brain damage to their daughter how they cope how they deal with the severity of of her their daughter's limitations I have no idea how they do it except that the grace of God has been given to them the measure of Grace uh the measure faith has been given to them and the grace that goes with it Grace and Faith always go together II Timothy 1 9 says that God called us according to his purpose and Grace purpose and Grace always go together faith and Grace always go together there's always a purpose to it so when I look at the grace given to me and I look at the grace of Maria and I look at the grace of my friend I look at the grace of everybody else we've all been gifted according to what we will encounter in life as we depend on him and it's that's just incredible and that's why First Corinthians what is it 10 29 I think it is or something that says that he will not allow us to be tested above what we're able but he will when the Temptation comes in make a way of Escape so that we are able to Bear it um that he is able because he knew ahead of time what we would face and graced us accordingly then he knows the limitations that we have and also the limitations to the circumstances he won't let the devil come get us beyond what we can't what we can handle um but there are times we have to depend on him 100 percent so that was an amazing thing so are you saying that the Lord puts people in certain situations or allow them to be in certain situations or households because he's given them the strength to overcome it only through him though yes and no um he doesn't he doesn't do it but he's as Creator he's well aware that we live on in a fallen world with a devil roaming about seeking whom he may devour and because of that he deals with the situation that's been given to him remember what people don't realize is Adam gave the Earth over to Satan you know in in Luke 4 and I think it's about verse six Satan tempts Jesus says I'll give you the glory of the world he took him up on a pie part and said you know here's the world here's the glory of it just worship me and I'll give it to you because it was given to me you know it was it was a Temptation and that was a true statement because of that and I think it's Hosea I want to say four six I don't I have to refer to my Bible that says they like Adam have transgressed the Covenant they have dealt treacherously with me and and so yes the Lord knew it all ahead of time but the fact is here we are in a fallen world so he had to equip us as Creator he had to equip us with the gifts the grace according to what we would face and because there is no such thing as a perfect family perfect children or anything like that his grace his empowerment in him is far and above overcoming uh whatever the the devil the world can throw at us so uh he does allow us to be born into certain families uh obviously even though I look at my dysfunctional family and I'm thinking really you know and I look at others who are born into the standard you know perfect family and it's it's uh you know but I it is what it is you know and and so he he has graced us accordingly knowing ahead of time how we'd be placed and and it goes from there and that's why he's given us the grace in all our situations it's not so much that he's the author of it but he certainly has allowed it absolutely because the devil is free and loose but at the same time he has graced us with gifts according to what we're going to face and so everybody should have confidence that whatever you're going to face in life the Lord saw before creation ever happened and looked through the quarters of time at your life and everything that you would encounter and he graced you with all that you would need in him in him that's the key it has to function in him uh otherwise you're not going to overcome you know the circumstance could can overwhelm you you're born into a family but you know and it is what it is but when you depend on him that's you enter that that overcoming greater he that's in you than he that's in the world and you have the authority to use the name of Jesus and you can do all things through Christ who strengthens you but you have to be in Christ to have him strengthening you you know and so it's interesting from his perspective it's like each each one of those Maria and my friend have to depend 100 on him even though outwardly to us it's like how unequal can you get but internally in their hearts they have to depend 100 each on him so in your book pursuing the seasons of God you mention how the Lord wants to normalize the Heavenly realm with us before we get into the deep stuff that you're about to you know get more into explaining that part to us where the Lord wants us to to be normalized or once everything's been normalized for us when I was growing up I didn't have anybody tell me that the book of Acts wasn't normal and I think I shared this in the first interview talking about how to me when I read the book of Acts I thought it was normal to see the Lord like Paul saw him in Acts 9 acts 18 acts 22 I think it was a 23 where he said he was in a trance and he saw the Lord or for Cornelius to see an angel or you know I just thought all that was normal raising people from the dead you know signs and wonders the whole bit and so that's how I that's how I grew up and so my heart was Psalm 103 7. in Psalm 103 7 says he made known his ways to Moses his acts acts his acts to the children of Israel the children of Israel saw the quail the Mana the water from Iraq they saw those things the poison water turned Sweet Water so they could drink it my heart has never been to see the Miracles I I've seen so many Christians who live in that realm of I need a miracle I need a miracle my heart from a team was to know his ways so part of the call on my life is to share the ways of God which cause us to to to say okay this is normal Christianity you know Isaiah 55 you know you start reading there in verse six or so and it talks about let the fort for uh let the Wicked Man forsake his ways and the evil forsake his thoughts for my ways are not your ways neither are my thoughts your thoughts my ways are higher when you forsake something you leave and so Isaiah 55 is an invitation to come up to God's higher ways and thoughts when he says let the evil forsake that as you leave your ways and thoughts he says Mike and return to the Lord for my ways are higher my thoughts are higher so it's that transition happening and so part of the my heart and my call my purpose was that he told me you know when I was a teenager that I was called to be a Seer and to teach me about how to be sensitive to the things of the spirit and everything else is to as you use the term I always say normalize but that is an accurate term Jennifer what you said it's to normalize the things of the spirit Christianity has to be more than a philosophy it has to be more than a set of moral standards if it's not Supernatural it's not Christianity because Christianity is founded upon a supernatural act of Jesus being raised from the dead and then the signs and the Wonders are there to confirm that that he was in fact raised from the dead that he is in fact Lord and Savior and so we've been raised so many have been raised in an auditorium setting where the gifts are the spirit either don't flow or maybe you might get one Prophecy from Sister so-and-so who's been authorized by the pastor because she's filled out an application to be approved to step up to the speaker if he will allow her once you know a service instead of the way they met was in homes and people were moved of the spirit to speak and it's very Dynamic that's what we see in our house Church Network around the world today we see a very living Dynamic powerful um Supernatural move of God first in our hearts because Christianity it has to be let me say it this way Miracles have to become normal words of knowledge words of wisdom getting prayers answered that is normal Christianity and so that's part of of what I'm talking about is to normalize to cause everybody to rise up in their thinking saying you know what it's not unusual for me to see God moving in my life it's unusual not to see him and I remember when I was a teenager I remember standing distinctly it was my senior year in high school standing in my in my bedroom and saying and and recognizing this and saying father everything around me that I see that's called Christian is abnormal Christianity none of it looks like the book of Acts it's all abnormal Christianity and I said my heart is normal Christianity and it was only in this little prayer meetings on thurs as a teenager Barbara and I when we were dating we'd go to a Thursday night a Saturday night and a Sunday night prayer meetings uh the Saturday night had adults there it was at a farmhouse out in the country and those were normal that's where we saw Miracles that's where you know I saw a German Shepherd that had been cow kicked that had been kicked and had its canine tooth dangling by a thread and we laid hands on that that goal that German Shepherd and when we took our hands off that tooth was seated back up in the gum and the dog was totally healed it ran out the door to us resume whatever it was doing you know we saw Miracles and so we have to we have to elevate ourselves to think this is normal Christianity and for me it was like just reading through the book of Acts and saying okay this is normal this is normal you know what Jesus said lay hands on the sick raise the Dead cast out demons see Angels everything we saw in the book of Acts normal Christianity and I wanted to separate myself from abnormal Christianity that's been my heart ever since it's got to have Supernatural it's got to have good teaching but it's got to be annoying about the spirit and it's got to have power in our lives Paul wrote this in First Corinthians what is it 5 24 something 14 he said he said he said I came to you not speaking in the wisdom of men so that your faith is not in the wisdom of man but in the power of God this makes me think of well honestly I adore what you just said because this is what I felt for so many years but have never been able to articulate it the way that you have how you mentioned that what we're seeing today as I would say for the Western world is what we're seeing now in the Christian faith is not normal Christianity everything is very mundane or very safe so to say um so thank you for saying it that way how what we're seeing right now is not normal it's not normal just to send pews on Sunday and do nothing for the rest of the week it's not normal to see sick people and not pray for them it's not it's not normal to be outside of the supernatural when God calls you to be in a supernatural so what do you say to the Christians who don't believe in the Supernatural what would you say to those because there are a lot who are very religious um who haven't surrendered their full mind to Jesus Christ yet what would you say to those Christians who are saying well I don't really believe in the Supernatural so okay well in First Corinthians 2 verses 4 and 5 is the verse I was looking for where Paul said I want your your faith not to stand in the wisdom of man but in the power of God and then later he said the the Kingdom of Heaven is not in words but in in the power of the Holy Ghost holy spirit so what I would say to them is this the the first evidence of Jesus being raised from the dead the first evidence of something Supernatural is first in your heart in in Ephesians chapter 1 in verses 17 through 23. Paul says this he says he says I bow my knees to the father or I ask the father that he would give us the spirit of wisdom and Revelation in the knowledge of him so that the eyes of your understanding can be opened enlightened to know the invitation of the calling he has in you and the power that is towards us through Christ and he goes on to say it is that same power that he works in us that he used when he raised Jesus from the dead so the first evidence in our lives when when we see an answered prayer when we see the Lord changing us on the inside it's like why am I loving this person and forgiving them when man that's not me because that I want to you know off with their head that sort of thing and God's dealing with you that is the evidence of the resurrection of Jesus and it's the resurrection of the power of God so a person who says well I don't believe in the power of God I don't believe in the healings and and all of that so okay don't worry about that look into your own heart and say has the power of God changed me is my life different now for knowing god than not knowing him where would I be if I didn't know him would I be in jail would I be six foot under would I you know what where would I be right now would I be a self-centered narcissistic corporate climbing you know professional uh where would I be so first to answer the question is you look for the supernatural work in your heart in your midst and because it flows out from there the the the Living Word the person of the word is first in our hearts and then flowing outward from there so don't you don't have to look for for healings that's most of them don't happen most of them aren't like that anyway but what happens is what we found Jennifer in our house search network is when we're sitting there and you've got you know the same kind of group of people that you're sitting with uh week to week you know across the living room from each other you're hearing of answered prayer you're hearing of Grace you're hearing of of peace that comes on a person look for those Little Miracles because those are things that an unbeliever does not have so you look for what is God doing in my heart how has he changed me and then looking at those that you know around you who know the Lord and say what is he doing in their lives there's the evidence of the of the supernatural there's the evidence that your faith is more than a philosophy that it's living and active and and sharper than any two-edged sword and dividing it between Soul and Spirit and getting down on the inside of you and changing so that's how I'd answer that one that's good now let's talk about what you mentioned also how the Lord has taught you Jesus taught you while you were on the road in Mexico to be sensitive to the spirit and the way you describe it teaches us how to be sensitive to the spiritual in the spirit as well could you educate us on that yeah well I I'm just sharing you know what happened to me there but it changed my life so after that with Maria and my friend and explaining that all things were made by him and for him everything has to work right it has to be in him he said he reiterated he said I'm going to teach you how the father communicates and he then he he disappeared and I was in the natural I I was right there in Laguna De Sanchez I was there in that little gravel road Carl and Dora had lost track of them they had gone up the the path the homes were up there and and through the trees and and everything and I'm I'm standing there and I look around the valley they had a it's a beautiful setting you know with a little Valley and they had an aqueduct system from an Artesian well that flowed down into the what was a dry lake bed and that's where they irrigated their crops and I was taking it all in and then I thought okay what do I do with this and I and I turn around and suddenly without warning he's standing there again just to my right maybe 10 or 15 feet away and I had I had felt first that that since again of him there and then I looked and he was kind of fuzzy you know in appearance and then the more I looked at him as I continued to look at him it became clearer and clear and clear and he was just there and he said how did you do that and I said well I said I be oh by the way I'm looking at him I'm still looking at the natural so it's now he's just there you know my eyes are wide open so I see natural realm and spiritual Jennifer it's kind of like having a parallel universe it's kind of like two universes that coexist uh equally between themselves when my eyes are open to his realm or I see my angels or something like that I see both Realms at once uh usually and so that's what was happening I was standing there on the road and there he is just to my right he said how did you do that and I said well I felt uh like your presence on the inside of me and so I started searching for where you were and I said you're I said I felt uh where you were standing was more dense more concentrated it was weightier it was heavier in over in this area and so I I kind of gave myself to it and paid attention and then that's where I first saw you then you became clear as I as I gave as I continued looking at you he said exactly he said now how do you receive when you when you uh give a prophecy how do you first notice that and what happens and I said well you know I was thinking about when you know praying for people it's like my eyes are closed that's what he asked me he said are your eyes open or open or closed I said oh my eyes are closed I'm praying for a person and as I'm praying I sense something down on the inside of me like the first few words of something or some I'll say maybe a little picture and he said why do you close your eyes and I said well I guess I I do it because I need to concentrate I need to focus on what's happening in my spirit so it helps me if I close out the natural world the natural census and he said exactly exactly and he said that's what happened when you saw me I said you were focused on what was happening in your spirit and so you were able to ignore the natural to look and and then you you saw me your eyes were open in my realm and he said that and I said Lord do you have you know chapter and verse on that and he referred me to um Luke and it's it's the what is it 16 19-31 in Luke just to to double check there so when he referred to that in Luke 16 19-31 it was a story of a rich man who was unnamed and then a beggar named Lazarus who's laid at his feet actually laid at his gate and the beggar hopes to receive crumbs or something from the rich man as he goes off to his day and he says and the Lord said the dogs came and licked this beggar named lazarus's source and so you've got to understand in Jewish culture it was mandatory Hospitality was like mandatory it's part of righteousness to take care of of somebody if they if they came and sat at your gate and they needed help they it was your responsibility to help them and take care of them so that's the way Lazarus was right there and the man ignored him so Jesus said in the process of time Luke 16 19-31 in the process of time both men died and the the rich man was in hell and wanted water because uh he he was thirsty because the heat he said and he looked across and he saw in Paradise he saw Abraham and the beggar named Lazarus and the Lord explained to me he said he said now both men's bodies were buried on the Earth but he said notice they saw one another they heard one another the one talked of of needing water so he had he had taste and touch because of the heat so he said your five physical senses he said they retained their their physical sense or they retained their senses he said you've been taught that your five physical senses are all there is he said but the root of your five physical senses is actually in your spirit man and he said that's why your mind is the middle point of a teeter-totter with your body on one end and your spirit man on the other other and your soul is in the middle and he said you have to train yourself to know what's happening in your spirit man and your spirit man's senses he said this is how people can hear Angels Sing or they smell death or they smell the aroma of my garments he said because it's not their physical senses it is their Spirit man's senses and he repeated again the root of your physical senses is in your spirit man and he said you need to become good at paying attention to both Realms both senses you know and that's exactly what happened the beggar and the and and uh the rich man they saw one another they heard one another he he could taste and touch the water they felt he felt the heat uh taste touch sight smell hearing it was all there and though their bodies were dead on the Earth that opened my eyes Jennifer that pinpoint teaching that my spirit man's senses are actually the root of my this body is going to pass away and my physical senses will pass with it but my by my real my real man my spirit man that census that operates in the spirit realm that is retained spirit and soul I'll go to heaven and wait for the Redemption above the body you know wait for my glorified body but but I can still function in that Realm so so when the Lord is standing there teaching me this and he's talking about your spiritual senses and he referred to at the time when we live we lived in uh when we lived in Boulder Colorado there's a mall in downtown Boulder called The Pearl Street Mall or just the boulder Mall um and it's a pedestrian mall and there was a time where Barb and I went into a shop there and when we walked in there was just a funny feeling to it kind of a sweet uh but deceptive feeling to it in our spirit and we noticed it we walk in in the atmosphere of the store with such and it was only then after our mind picked up on on that sense that feeling in our spirit it was only then that we looked around we noticed Buddhism symbols all over with Buddha and different stuff like that and that's the first time I really realized that the spirit behind Buddhism is like a it's like a it's almost like marijuana it's a it's a sickening sweet smell that is is kind of a deceptive thing in its sweetness it's it's you know it and so anyway each Spirit has a different thing that's a little Rabbit Trail here that's why let's say it this way if a person has been abused when they were raised up or if they grew up in like an alcoholics family and then years later they come to the Lord they get delivered from all that and everything else but they have a knack for picking out if they were like sexual abuse they can tell um a man or a woman a person with a spirit of lust they can tell if they grew up in a family of an alcoholic they can tell if somebody's an addict or an alcoholic just by looking at them because the holy spirit in them will bear witness they'll sense that same spirit so they will just know their mind won't know but they'll have this inner knowing and that's their Spirit man's senses because they are familiar with the spirit of involved in alcoholism or they're familiar with the spirits of lust and sexual immorality their mind will pick up on on they just have the heebie-jeebies they just don't feel right about a person and if they will pinpoint it they'll say that's the same feeling as you know the perpetrator had that's the same feeling that you know my parents had when they were alcoholics or whatever the case is and so we do this all the time without but that teaching just changed my life we we may they look at a person and and they'll say one word and they'll say wow and we just know inside they are caught up in Strife man they had an argument before they got here and it just darkens the whole atmosphere of the room and it's something that your mind picks up in your spirit and you just know that's a spirit of strife how do I know that because I've been in the spirit of strife and so and so that awareness that was a that was a major part of it right there and and what the Lord continued to do just for time's sake he would teach me a little bit then he disappeared and I'd walk about 10 or 15 feet furthermore and then he reappeared on my left side and he teached me a little more about this and I said you know chapter and verse please and he referred to to mark 2 8. and in Mark 2 8 there was a lame man who was let down through the roof while Jesus was there and there were scribes there and Pharisees there uh the rulers there in front of him and this man gets let down through the roof and Jesus looks at him and says uh be of good cheer your sins are forgiven and then it the text says and and the King James version the text says uh when G excuse me the text says that the scribes were thinking who does this man think he is only God can forgive sins and then verse 8 says says this it says when Jesus perceived their thoughts he said to them which is easier to say your sins are forgiven or rise and be healed but so that you can know that I've got the authority to do both he'd look to the man and said take up your bed and walk what Jesus pointed out in this visitation was he said the father didn't tell me this he said I perceived in my spirit what they were thinking he said I was not reading their minds he said their body language Drew my attention to them but then I checked in my spirit and I perceived what they were thinking and I said do you have another example and he's he he looked at and he referred to uh Paul in Acts chapter 14 in verses 8 and 9. and he said Paul was speaking to them and there was a man in lystra who was born crippled and it said and and he's he's narrating this to me he says he said Paul was teaching and looking around and he said you'll notice it says when Paul steadfastly beheld him he perceived the man had Faith to be healed he said Paul had to stare at him Paul was looking at everyone as he was teaching but he zeroed in and focused on that man because he perceived in his Spirit the man had Faith to be healed and he said you need to learn to do that and he said and then he referred to Luke 8 46 actually referred to Luke 8 46 first but Luke 8 46 said when I was in the crowd and this was an interesting thing Jennifer he said when I was in the crowd on the way to jairus's house he said he said the woman with the hemorrhaging issue came and touched the Hem of my garment and he said and I said who touched me I perceive power has gone out from me he said my senses were all going off all the physical senses were firing he says but I had the presence of mind to pay attention to what was happening in my spirit and I perceived healing power had gone for me and he said this he said he said the body and this is important he said the Bible and again because I use the King James mostly because all the reference books and study books and commentaries are older and usually use the King James or the or the revised version so he's in in that context knowing that I I study from the King James version he said this he said the Bible uses terms like perceive discern and witness to describe the process by which the Mind picks up what is going on in your spirit I'll say it again because it was a great quote again changed my life he said the Bible uses words like perceived uses perceive dis witness and discern to describe the process by which your mind picks up on what is in your spirit and he said you have to learn to live like this and we do this Jennifer we do this all the time how many people the world calls it premonition I mean the father God in his great goodness has you know he can deal with people for years and he can give people what is called premonition or in the world you know follow your gut you know your mind says this but what does your gut say why do you have such a bad feeling about going on this trip um you know why is there a Happy Feeling uh something good is about to happen even if you're unsaved the father in the attempt to draw us to himself you know John 6 44 Jesus said in John 6 44 no one comes to to me except the father first draws him so the fathers is communicating to us in our spirit trying to be helpful and and gracious because he causes the sun to shine on the just and the unjust and the rain to fall on the just on the unjust so he he tries he he to the extent that he's allowed he will be good to everybody so somebody may have a premonition they may have a hunch they may have something going on and it's in their Spirit their mind becomes aware of what's going on in their Spirit realm and that we do we're in a store and we see somebody like I said you know a person in Strife shows up at your Bible study or or at church you know and you can say oh man the wrong Spirit about him this morning or you're in a store and you see somebody they've got a little black cloud hovering over them and you can say man that person is depressed you don't know why but you walk by him there's just this Darkness it's just heaviness on them and so we do this all the time this is very but we don't realize what we're doing and the Lord in this teaching brought it home to me and made it so real and by his appearing and disappearing and the whole thing lasts about 40 minutes so this was a like a 40-minute teaching well you know I have a question for you so do you feel like um your spirit or do you feel like your spirit knows because we're Spirit beings because obviously we have a body but we are a spirit so do you feel like our spirit knows these things because our spirit is seeing other spiritual things and it's alerting us right because you know like Jesus said in John chapter 4 you know in the exchange with the woman at the well you know in 20 through 24 especially verses 23 and 24. he said he said he told her he said he said the time is coming and now is when you won't ask do we go to this mountain to worship or that mountain to worship because God is a spirit and those that worship Him must Worship in spirit and in truth in other so Jesus is saying it's not the location it's your spirit man it's your heart so because God the father is a spirit he communicates first and foremost to our spirit man so there are times and and this you brought up a good point there are times maybe you know every one of us as a Christian we may get up in the morning and there is a rejoicing there's a song coming up out of our spirit and our mind doesn't have any clue what's going on it's just just another day but the the for some reason there's a rejoicing like a spiritual battle has been won or something good is coming our way and so our spirit man often knows things before our natural man knows them before our As Time plays out before we walk into you know that situation or that good thing that's happening um and so uh you know and that happens too your spirit man it's like you could be scanning the the help wanted ads you know and you just have a leap in your spirit about that job is for you and so you respond and apply and it's like on the inside you're saying I've already got that job everybody else can go home you know I mean it could be an online application you haven't walked through the door whatever the case is you have this assurance you have this knowledge you have this piece your mind doesn't know anything your mind hasn't even been invited to an interview yet but in your spirit you just have this settling piece it's like this is where I'm gonna work and that's an example your spirit man knows ahead of time and then you you walk through the process uh that actually happened with me one time uh in a job and I was told they it they it they received 60 applications they interviewed three people they hired me I knew before it ever happened that I had the job but I couldn't act like an arrogant you know person walking in there like hey I know I've already got this job no no no you go in there you keep that you retain that you walk in wisdom and humility and you you retain that and let it be proved out that it was so let it be proved out that you heard accurately and but that's actually happened to me and so many others where your spirit man knows ahead of time or you have a revealed to you ahead of time and then you walk it out well continuing on Spirit knowing ahead of time I have a very close friend and she was a Jehovah's Witness matter of fact I interviewed her about a year and a half ago so if anyone's watching you can see it she's the one who had a child who doctors mentioned that he wouldn't survive or he would have a whole lot of health issues and he survived but she was a Jehovah's Witness and she always mentions to me that she can always tell when a person is Jehovah's Witness and I ask her how can you tell she said all I have to do is just listen to them speak it doesn't even have to be about the religion or the cult whatever they want to call it all they have to do is speak and then she just knows automatically or even if they walk into her presence and they just stand there for some reason she can feel that their Jehovah's a witness and 10 times out of 10 she's always right so John what you're saying it it actually pairs with what my friend um had always said how she just knows it's something about Jehovah's Witness that she could tell because her spirit her spirit knows now you also mentioned to me how when a person's in a say when they're having coffee or something like or you're having coffee and then you think about your friend who you haven't heard from in years what is that because you know a lot of people are like oh I'm just thinking about my friend I haven't thought about her in a long time but you say it's not just a thought what is it a little again foundational here in First Corinthians chapter 12 verses four through seven Paul says there are differences of gifts but it's the same spirit and that word gift is Charis where we get gift or Grace or the charismatic gifts so he mentions the charismatic gifts that's First Corinthians 12 4. in verse 5 he says there are also serving gifts and those serving gifts are are what we would call Minister gifts you know Apostle Prophet evangelist Pastor teacher helps uh governments things of that nature that Paul mentions and he says it's the same spirit and then in verse 6 he says uh he says there are also differences of energies that is motivational gifts that he covers more in Romans chapter 12 things like organizing things like giving things like mercy and Hospitality uh things like storytelling or where a person is just gifted with and feels better they're an exhorter the King James version calls it they they incur they're an encourager and he says these are gifts these are things that energize us or motivate us so he mentions charismatic gifts Minister gifts and energy gifts things that motivate us and he says in verse seven he sums it all up he says but all these things are are just a manifestation of the Holy Spirit given to everybody to be profited to be profiting in other words for our own good so because of that Jennifer we have to get rid of the auditorium thinking that the gifts of the Spirit have a particular time you know and everybody's worshiping and the the volumes Trails down and you know it's going to be a tongue and interpretation or prophecy or whatever and then you know outside the four walls the gifts don't exist you have to get rid of that and realize that the Lord does not announce incoming here is a word of knowledge you know it doesn't flow like that because God the father's a spirit we're a spirit so in our spirit man almost floating up from our spirit man you may be going about your day and here's your friend that you haven't heard from or seen in a long time and maybe for a week solid just every now and then where when your mind sort of shifts into neutral their their name just kind of comes across your mind and you think I wonder what's up with them haven't thought about them in ages what's going on and then maybe a week or two later you just happen quote unquote happen to get an email from them or text message or you just think I'm going to follow up and just touch base with them and that you're you find out back then when they were on your mind that they were going through a very hard time and they really needed prayer when it first happened to me I had that happen with somebody and I found out and they said oh and I said yeah you've been really on my heart you know a couple weeks ago what was going on oh thank you for praying for me because I was going through such a hard time and in my mind I felt so guilty because I hadn't prayed for them they were just on my mind you know I'm going like father can you make this kind of a retroactive uh prayer I pray for them right now from two weeks ago that they're going that they're doing good you know and and so I learned that was what we would classify as a word of knowledge I realized that Paul said these are manifestations of the spirit in First Corinthians 12 7 charismatic gifts serving gift like Apostle Prophet Pastor Etc and also the energy gives the thing that motivated us to move us and he says these are just the Holy Spirit and so I began to understand that the Apostle is equal to the prophecy which is equal to the lady giving the casserole to their friend out of mercy and Hospitality all are moved by the spirit it's just a manifestation of spirit just different functions not one higher than the other um and so when you realize that that friend that is a word of knowledge that that friend is going through a tough time and so in the future as the Lord teaches us and he does teach us uh Hebrews 5 14 is my favorite verse along his life one of the things that the Lord showed me at this time Hebrews 5 14 says that strong meat is for those who by reason of use have trained their senses to discern between Good and Evil by reason of use which means it's trial and error so the next time when I had a friend just crossed my mind just I took that as that is the holy spirit's suggestion because the father is a spirit he's communicating to my spirit it's come floating up out of my mind especially when my mind's in neutral or not you know active with other things because the Lord is such a gentleman he's usually not going to interrupt us well sometimes he does but you know when the mind's in neutral and then it's like that friend's name just comes across my mind the next time I'm going to grab hold of that and I'm gonna say father I lift them up I take it as a word of knowledge and so it's the same thing you're saying you're sitting there having coffee with somebody and they're just sharing you know you're sitting there the coffee shop or whatever and they're just sharing about their rough week and suddenly you have this piece about it you just have this piece and you know that you know that what needs to get done on Friday that your friend is so stressed about will get done God will show up and it and it's going to be okay and you have this it just sinks on the inside of you and you just say to them hey I just have it you know in my spirit I just really sense a piece about this and that it's all going to work out by the end of the week it's all going to be wrapped up well you just had a Word of Wisdom a a you know a course of action for her to take to rest to be at peace or for him to rest and be at peace that that word of wisdom is about you know an action to take in the future or a word of knowledge about the situation and so afterwards you sit there and say oh that was a maybe I'll label this all for label's sake from my understanding it's like it's a word of knowledge but the labels are just so that we can help understand understand what the holy spirit is doing but Paul said in First Corinthians 12 7 these are just manifestations of the spirit this is just normal Christianity this is the way of life but you're not going to get in neon signs okay income Word of Wisdom or incoming here's a prophecy you know First Corinthians 14 3 prophecy is nothing more than an inspired word for edifying exhorting or incur or comfort you know there's nothing future about that in a simple gift of Prophecy and so there are many many times where we've been inspired even when praying for people maybe in one of our house Church meetings or a prayer meeting or or just praying for somebody you just have this this encouragement just drop in on you and you feel that they need to be encouraged and you share that with them fine you just moved in Prophecy it doesn't have to use King James English thus saith the Lord Taoist mayest ghost in peace of you know like that it just comes from your personality as Christ in you and just saying man I've got a piece about this and and the Lord just wants you to know that you need to be encouraged that he loves you and it's all going to work out and you need to be at peace boom you just prophesied and so so people have to understand that moving from the spirit is not as mystical and not as special as we've made it out to be because we've been herded into a building and you know all our time is is very carefully categorized the the work you know most of Jesus's Miracles were outside and most of Jesus miracles were in the marketplace most of Jesus miracles were when he was having a meal you know and and once you realize that then it's like wow I don't have to look for this I I've got I I I've got a friend I've got other people who have who have said to me you know they they work with their hands you know um and and the Lord will give them words of knowledge and words of wisdom about how to fix this or how to fix that or how to solve that problem you know everything from mechanics to Engineers to to to people working on assembly line and in a machine shop and stuff like that and they'll say well God doesn't prophesy God doesn't use me in Prophecy God doesn't you know I don't hear from him and then you talk to them in their workplace and and they're like getting all kinds of words of wisdom about how to fix that and this piece goes with that and do this and they have no idea they're moving in the gifts of the Spirit and words of wisdom the world calls it intuition the world calls it maybe wisdom they don't realize that it's often an inspired word an inspired a knowledge from above that's deposited in our spirit this is how you solve that problem and you move with and you just moved in one of the gifts of the Spirit the labeling is not important what is important is God the father who's the spirit put it in your spirit your mind picked up on it allowed it to flow out and you put it to use in the natural world so going back to earlier how do you become good in both senses Hebrews 5 14 by reason of use it's got to be a lifestyle you'll find at least for me I'm more sensitive when I pray in the spirit I will most often turn if I'm driving every let me put this way everybody has a has a place where the Lord seems to speak to them or show them things better than at other times for one it might be a hot bath for another it may be working in the garden for another it may be driving a car uh for another it may be just sitting back in the recliner with the eye shot and some quiet you know worship music going on everyone's built differently and so everyone will is created differently and so we'll meet the Lord as it pertains to them in John chapter 15 verse 7 the Lord says if you abide in me and my words abide in you you will ask what you will and it'll be done of my father who's in heaven we have been trained because it doesn't come across in the English we've been trained to say if I just know enough of the Bible I could be sensitive eventually at some point to hear God's voice okay I mean that's how it's strange but there's two Greek words uh that concern us with this the first one is logos or logos l-o-g-o-s that is the general word of God that's the Council of God that is Jesus is described as the word made flesh he's the whole Council of God the logos the Genesis through Revelation made flesh out of the logos out of the person of Jesus out of that comes a specific word to you and to me that specific word is called Rhema r-h-e-m-a it's always used for when God talks to a person okay what Jesus used there is this if my words abide in you we've been trained to think that is talking about the logos if I just do scripture Memory verses if I just know enough of the Bible that's not what Jesus said Jesus said if my words that is my rhemas that means if the words that I spoke directly to you abide in you then you can ask what you will according to that specific word and it will be done for you an example in scripture would be Noah being told a specific word of Rhema word build a boat I'm going to flood the Earth so Noah according to that Rhema word could then ask anything that he wanted as it pertained to that okay Lord I'm gonna need enough wood I'm going to need enough time I'm going to need pitch I need you to talk to the animals and get the ones that you want here which wasn't every animal on earth it was just the species head the main ones uh you know he would need whatever he needed according to that Rhema or that specific word to him then he could have it that's what Jesus was saying in John 15 verses 7 and 8. the way you do that is like when I read the Bible I'm not reading just my two chapters to get it over with and then I forget what I just read I'm reading for a for my spirit man to have something leap out at me I'm looking for something to pique my attention I'm looking for something to a concept a word a phrase something that says boom there's more here there's life here the father who's a spirit is in my spirit and he's trying to bring a specific word to me so I'll read my Bible or I'll read somebody's book or I'll I'll watch a video whatever the case is and I'm looking for life for something to jump out at me to arrest my attention and once that happens I stop because the logos is not going to feed me there are many people in Hell who knew the Bible backwards and forwards but they didn't know the person of Jesus Christ and so I'm looking for if if he in fact uh what is it Deuteronomy 8 3 and it's recorded in Matthew 4 4 man does not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God Matthew's translation there that word is Rhema man does not live by bread alone but by every word that God speaks to me that's how I live in other words I live for that equal to my breakfast lunch and dinner I want God showing me something and that can come through Revelation it can come through something I perceive something I discern it can be you know where something jumps out of me but I will I will look at that phrase I'll look at that verse and I'll just stop and I will feed on that that is my nutrition it's equal to my bread so I want to get every bit of nutrition out of it the same way I want to get every bit of nutrition out of a meal and so there are times I might not open the Bible for two months or three months other than to to track down every Nuance about that particular verse that jumped out on me you understand what I'm saying so that so it's the same thing in Romans 10 17. it says faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God and and the word used there is not logos it's Rhema that faith comes by Rhema faith comes when God talks to you that's why when he talked to Noah Faith came out of Noah to be able to build the boat and it's the same with Abraham taking a walk and ending up at the promised land same with Moses being called to be to the the deliverer for Israel they received a specific word and Faith Comes faith is the response to that Grace faith is the response to that Revelation faith is the response to that Rhema word that specific word that specific Revelation that specific leading as we might say it and so how you live it is that you are willing to take a chance you're willing to step out in faith maybe you're in a prayer meeting and you're praying and you are you've got your eyes closed because at this point you you need to shut out the the natural census so that you can pay attention to your spirit man's senses and and your eyes are closed and you can't and you just kind of like in your you just see this brother so-and-so or sister so and so over here and you just sense they are really you know in knots about something coming up and you sense that and you and you feel like the Lord is telling you or showing you that it's going to be okay and that you have a word for them and the fear rise up do I do this do I share with them do I not the way you live by it is you take a chance you step out in that and certainly House Church small group family prayer meeting that's a safe place to try that's a space safe place to learn you know because you're among friends but you live like that Jennifer you train your senses to discern between good and evil that's good okay so let's move over to the time when you got to speak and Converse with your guardian angel and you asked your guardian angel about the fall of Lucifer what happened what did that look like this was early on in in the Lord's in the visitation it's it's humbling I don't know what to say you know other than he continues to appear to me usually a few times a year I usually talk more about what he's doing in the body of Christ and instructions than than anything but he often includes things about world events but and one of the reasons for that is because I'm not I don't say it's scary but but like I I said in the first interview you know it's it's uh once you see the Lord you become accountable for more and so I I wouldn't change a thing and yet at the same time I'm very much aware that he's God and I'm not and when you truly see the Lord the the awesomeness of the Lord is amazing so it's nothing to get lifted up with or prideful or you know try to sell a bunch of books or anything about about this or that or the other thing it's just part of normal Christianity for me so early on during the visitation there was a time with the one I call my angel the one who's been assigned and it appears that we are assigned Angels at children that's a Jewish uh belief or at least part of the commentary it's seen in the gospels and the children's Angels always behold the face of the father Jesus said there's no sign that teenage years scare them away uh you know they're with us and so I asked my angel a couple different things and the whole conversation was first off of how do you and I believe I shared this the first time I may not have but because it goes in in order I said how do you feel about me being in charge of you in the age to come because Paul said in First Corinthians chapter six he said no ye not we will judge the world we'll judge angels and that word judge doesn't mean heaven heaven or hell it means to administrate it's a first century term meaning you'll be administrator over angels in the age to come and my interlectomy said it is right it is proper like how could you ask such a thing and I I said why and he said remember we know him as Creator but you know him as Savior you know it's right it's proper so then I said so so then what was it like when Lucifer I said if I could ask I said what was it like when Lucifer fell and he he stopped for a minute and then he to to think a minute and then he said this he said he said if you can receive this imagine a time when only your father's life and light and goodness filled the universe now I don't know if that was if there was a creation I don't know if the galaxies existed then or not he just told me imagine a time when only your father's goodness his light his life filled the universe there wasn't anything else so I had to adjust my thinking think okay no stars no planets maybe or maybe they were here but he hadn't started the rest of creation right you know I didn't know I just know it was just light just all over light God's light God's love and he said when Lucifer rebelled your father was gracious and tried to find a place for him but there was no place to be found and I said I need chapter and verse on that and he said you've read Revelation 12 8 where it says there was war in heaven Michael and his angels fought against the dragon and his angels and there was found no place for him in heaven and he said also Matthew 25 41 which you which uh in which the Lord says that a place had to be prepared for the devil and his angels I said okay so then I so he's saying so your father tried to find a place for him but no place could be found because Lucifer rejected everything that is God and so he said your father was gracious enough to give him a place to prepare a place for him to give him what he wants and not only him but for all others who reject the things of your father and he said that's why it's called a kingdom of darkness because he is King over his Realm of Darkness that rejected everything that belongs to your father so from our perspective your father has been gracious and very kind to allow that and to prepare a place for him and his angels and for all who reject him I just just blew my mind I had never seen their perspective before you know I'll share this with Jennifer and I didn't share with us earlier I I shared it recently in one of our Zoom online meetings that we had and I've shared in my monthly newsletter that comes out by email and and maybe I'll just insert here if anybody's listening and we'll go to our website cwowi.org uh sign up for my weekly thoughts and my monthly e-newsletter follow the instructions on that it's a I do a weekly teaching every Friday by email and also do weekly YouTube teaching 7 to 14 minutes long you can look me up there as well um under either super House Church one word or just John fan weekly teaching so um but anyway something happened to me just recently and we didn't talk about this um but my wife had a knee replacement surgery she had work done on both knees and it had been about three weeks since we brought our handicapped son Chris home from the uh from his group home to have him home because of my wife's surgery and so he was you know like I said earlier Chris is about four years old five years old mentally and so he was so happy to be home and this set and Saturday morning a couple Saturdays ago we were seated in our in our sofa and the sofa has reclining you know reclining foot rest things and and so we were sitting there and Chris loves Formula One race cars and so we are sitting there we're just enjoying one another on Saturday morning I'd fix breakfast and just sitting in the recliner and he's talking and you know and and all of that and suddenly my angel was standing there about 10 feet away and I see him just like I see anybody else but I see both Realms like a parallel universe and he had a message from the father for me about some things coming up in in Barb and I in our lives and then he just stood there and he was smiling and it was enough that it's like Chris and I were talking we're watching the recorded race that I had on there but finally I looked at my angel said may I help you with something why are you standing here just smiling at us just looking at us and he said I'm enjoying your family he said he said he said we don't have family like this in heaven he's he said I don't have a father and mother like you do we were created specifically by the father to serve him and it's his interests and him we serve so I learned from family I learned from from Earthly family family was given by your father to mankind and that that perspective too one of the biggest things about my life to see is the is Heavenly perspective and that perspective from the angels that you know we have something unique in family as as imperfect as it as they are and you know sometimes we think we've got in-laws and outlaws you know and and you can pick and choose your friends but you got to love your family and all of that but it's still something that they they they look into it they they see it because they're not part of they don't know what it's like and they they look at our family Dynamic and everything and it it's instructive to them it's it's like that one of the times I was I was ministering at a church about 50 or 60 people and while I was teaching there were about 50 or 60 angels in the Isles up and down the main aisle and then on the sides and around at least as many angels as there were people in the pews and there came a point during the the worship and things were closing down I said why are you guys standing around listening to me and and he said we learned we learn from your perspective we learn from of the mysteries of your salvation you know it was it was later that I read in Ephesians chapter 3 you know verses 3 through 11 and where it really hit home where Paul talks about the mystery that was Kept Secret from ages and generations but it's now it's Christ in me the hope of glory and and it was God's wisdom that is now revealed to the principalities and Powers through the church with Jesus Christ that is that that when when our lives when when we get answered prayer we walk with the Lord our struggles all those different things we are proving God's wisdom his his investment in our lives and his whiz wisdom and the angels see that demon see that see God the father's wisdom in in having Christ in us and all that he did through Jesus on the cross and his resurrection and and it reveals Our Lives actually reveal step by step the wisdom of God it's an amazing amazing thing so it was just that was just a couple weeks ago with that angel when he went I had never in all these years you know of different exchanges I I had never thought about the the essence of family the Lord had said in a previous visitation a couple years ago about the importance he said the time is coming now is is when your faith will become precious to you and then recently this spring he talked about the importance of family that in the days ahead it'll be the small groups the house churches Etc and our our faith and our lives will be noted by the power of God and the family of God and how Holiness is coming back to the family of God to the body of Christ that people are gradually cleaning up their lives and and zeroing in on what is important and and letting go of things that really aren't important they're more peripheral so but anyway that's another subject there so and you even said that you have been given Insight of behind the scene things that happens in the Supernatural yeah [Laughter] well you told me this I'm not sure exactly which direction you're going to some of the stuff that I'm talking about has to do with that um well Heaven's perspective of Heaven's perspective just different things again Heaven's perspective Angel's perspective okay so I was I was praying this is back when I was a pastor in an auditorium church so this is some time ago I mean because we started Our House Church network uh in January of uh 2002 or 20 2002 I get my zeros of twos mixed up uh it's been 20 years as of this recording but anyway so I was praying and suddenly I was in the spirit and I saw the father's Throne far off and it was like up like the the roof of the church disappeared there was no Sky I mean I just saw the father on his throne way up there and I saw the cherubs around the throne and the cherubs are are multi-winged uh Angelic creatures that are crying out holy holy holy is the lord they're seen in Revelation chapter four Revelation chapter five uh especially Revelation 4 around the father's throne and suddenly like a bolt of lightning just right in front of me and there stood a cherub and he's about five and a half feet tall they're not very big you know five five or so and I'm not a real real good because I'm so tall I'm not a real real good judge of of height and everything of shorter people but he's definitely shorter than than like my guardian angel and others I've seen but but he came and and there was a a message there you know from the father and I knew a little bit because I'd studied it and everything I knew that um that in Isaiah 6 they're called seraphs which sarath is the Hebrew word meaning burning one and I know that when they move because I've been in heaven I've seen when they beat their wings it becomes a ball of fire it just ignites and becomes a ball of fire I showed that in our first interview I believe but here was this cherub there and I said what was that I said you came as a bolt of lightning and I had a reference in my mind to Ezekiel chapter one there was something about a reference about the cherubs that he saw come and go as a flash of lightning in the day of a storm you know and I said what is that and he looked at me and he said he said what is lightning on the Earth and I said well lightning uh basically equalizes the charge Between Heaven and Earth whether it's a cloud to ground or ground to Cloud it equalizes the difference the differences between Heaven and Earth and he said think of us as God's equalizers and then he was gone he delivered the message then he was gone and the whole thing disappeared and it was like wow that you know because I pondered why does the father even need Angels you know what is his purpose you know he's God but he he loves to create obviously and for whatever reason he uses that realm to uh to bring Equalization and it's you know all sorts of scriptures start going through my mind like the Lord's Prayer you know your may your will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven There is this continual process of the father wants his will to be done but he's in in heaven where nobody opposes him and he wants it to be done on Earth and so there's this continual flow from Heaven to Earth until eventually his kingdom will fill the whole earth as the waters covered of the globe you know his his glory will fill the Earth but there's this flow this equalizing going in and that's like when when a person is suffering and they are under attack what are we looking for we're looking for justice we're looking for things to be equalized in our lives one thing I did want to get at because millions of us have read the book of Acts and we know what happened in the upper room when Holy Spirit came and the Bible says in Acts 2 that they're paired tongues of fire over people's heads you say that you sometimes see that you sometimes see tongues of fire over people what does it look like does it look like actual tongues does it look like mouths of fire what help us out with this Vision here um I'm going back I'm going back now to early 1986 in my life okay this is before uh and during the time frame where the Lord appeared to me that first time in April of 1986 you know with the Pueblo or the Navajo Pastor rather in that time frame I was an associate pastor of a church in uh on the east side or east side of Boulder Colorado and on Monday afternoons I from 1 to 3 P.M I held what I called healing School and there would be 15 or 20 people that would gather every Monday afternoon and I would be led to take one passage or one incident in Jesus life or the book of Acts and talk about healing and how the Lord positioned that person into a place to receive healing much of it is in my series that I did so many years ago called healing school which people can find on our website you know I put that into to some of those things into a more formal teaching late years later but it was in that time frame of of doing the healing School that I would be teaching and then as I was looking at a person I would see over them uh what again tongues of fire sometimes there was a shaft of light sometimes it was just like they were in light but specifically for that my eyes would be open and you've got 15 people kind of in an oval or a circle sitting around and I'm teaching and I look at one person and over their head and and hovering about six inches above their head was if you imagine maybe a Valentine's heart turned upside down or or an Aspen Leaf or a cottonwood leaf that's kind of heart-shaped okay so that's the general shape hovering about so far six inches or so above a person's head and it would be a massive flame and then all over it were little Flames like in a fireplace going and you know the way they pop up and disappear and move and everything else so this whole thing is like a burning about 18 inches in total height uh a Burning Flame with lots of little tongues of flame over it and when I looked at that person I looked that and then I'd look at that person and the Lord would just give me words of knowledge or words of wisdom or a prophecy or something like that and so I would give that and then that flame would disappear and then there'd be somebody else sitting there and we'd go through I'd go through sometimes all 15 people every single person I would either see that or uh sometimes when they'd go into a trance I've seen this many different times and not just it doesn't have to be into a trans a Transit by the way is when your physical senses are suspended you know it would be like a shaft of light just coming down like a cylinder of light just coming down over their head and sometimes over their whole body but usually over their head and I would see words coming down that shaft of light and pouring into them I see the father talking to him I'd hear him by the spirit and then I'd see those words uh as just like written sentences going down into their Spirit man and they'd be sitting there just like you know receiving just like suspended and and when that light disappeared then they'd be like kind of wake up and they said and I said do you know what the father was saying to you and they said no it's just I've got a deep piece in here something has changed Something's Happened to me on the inside um on that note we had when I was the director of Bible school in Tulsa we had chapel and it was the time of worship and the Lord was there during that that time and he went and ministered to a couple of the students you know that brings me you've got a couple hundred students there Jennifer in the chapel and I'm up on the platform and there's the keyboardist over there and she's leading in the worship and everything and we're in the midst there and suddenly I feel the Lord's presence again I feel in my spirit and then I I look with my eyes and then I saw him coming and he walks up the steps and he stands in front of me he says I'd like permission to minister to my people and I said Lord You're the Lord go go right ahead and to do that requires us to linger in the worship so that people's attentions aren't off to you know my bladder is full or do I have my paper for the next class so we stayed in worship and I just watched the Lord go around to two or three different people or four different people and then he came back up and he said thank you for allowing me to minister to my people and I said does this not happen often he says he says many times he said they keep to their schedule and they don't allow me uh time to minister and because they want to move on with their schedule and then he he disappeared during that time there we had had about three people singing three or four people singing back up uh who were behind me on the platform and this one lady in this time she had like the microphone out like this and then she she set it down and then she just stood there in worship and she stood there Frozen Jennifer for the rest of the time during the chapel the short word that I shared and then the next class came in the the guys the teacher's name was Jerry and uh Jerry came in and he's ready to teach his class and she's still up there and I can still see the shaft of light on her she's just Frozen her and she and I see this the shaft of light on her and I tell Jerry I said I said well she's she's in a trance and receiving something from the Lord and and so um just go on and see what happens and so he just went on with his class with her standing frozen behind him and she went off in like another 30 minutes or so and then it just like faded away and she like came too and she was in the middle of this Bible School class up on the platform it was it was very gracious of the Lord to do that but I've seen stuff like that a lot but did you ask her what was she experiencing when she came out of it she and her husband had both been drug addicts before they came to the Lord and her husband through the use of dirty needles had contracted AIDS and had died a few months earlier and now she found out that she had AIDS and uh it was Ministry both related to her husband's death and some knowledge about her own life and everything and she sadly she did end up dying a couple years later uh of the result of that and I don't know if he foreshadowed any of that or not but he brought her she just said he brought great comfort concerning her husband and their lives because internally she felt so such a waste of time such darkness that they'd been involved with and how she she really wanted to to just make up for that darkness and she felt a condemnation and guilt and that she had no reason for for the Lord in his graciousness you know he he's made them both New Creations in Christ and their lives had great impact on people around them no big Ministry or anything like that but that's just their testimony of how they came to the Lord was very powerful so there was comfort in that in her place in him in the Lord and and beyond that I don't I don't know she she didn't go into a full full detail but she said she really got ministered too so I've seen stuff like that before with a spouse who's died sometimes not sometimes there is uh it doesn't make up for their absence but there's a a Point of Grace and a point of of graciousness that the Lord is to them uh even though you can't make up for the physical absence of a loved one there's often the Comfort because we do mourn but we don't mourn like the world Mourns you know we mourn with the hope and the certainty that there will be a reunion so uh that was quite fascinating quite interesting yeah people need if I could if I could talk about the ways of the spirit you would talk about behind the scenes yeah um our Earth bodies are made of Earthly materials so cannot stand to see uh the father God open-faced you know in Exodus 33 within about four or five verses of each other we are told Moses spoke to God face to face like a man speaks to his friend and then a few verses later the Lord says you can't see my face and live I've got to hide you in a cleft in the rock the difference is being in the spirit or being in the flesh you know Daniel saw the ancient of saw him in a vision as the Ancient of Days To Whom the son of man came and received a kingdom Without End Revelation chapter 4 is the father God on his throne in heaven to whom the lamb that was slain the lion of the tribe of Judah in Revelation 5 comes and takes the book out of the right hand of him who sat on the throne so if you're in the spirit you can see the father but in the flesh you can't uh your your body couldn't stand it so when you're around the spirit of God and what's happening is a lot of people will feel his presence I I want to get back to how a person could be sensitive to to telling like when the Lord the Lord's presence for healing is there maybe when an angel's in the room or something like that I want to get back to that to help kind of finish off that visitation uh from October 1st but first let me share this the Earth our Earth body reacts differently in each person differently uh to the spirit of God and so when the Lord turns up his power a little bit it can affect your physical body even though your spirit is fine with it because your spirit is recreated by the Holy Spirit you can flow in the power and the things of God but your physical body your Earth body can't so people may feel a warmth they may feel Goosebumps they may feel flushed with the presence of the of the Lord if he turns it up a little more they may lose their strength and they may fall over like in John chapter 18 verses 5 and 6 where Jesus they're coming to get Jesus in The Garden of Gethsemane and they he says who are you looking for and they say Jesus of Nazareth and he says I am that's all I said I am and they fell backwards to the ground if you it goes a little bit further if he turns the power up a little bit further then they may be in a trance they may be down for a while you know almost unconscious here's here's the key Jennifer if he turns it up more it will kill your body and if he turns it up even more it will transform your body into Heavenly material that's what happened to Jesus Romans 6 4 says that Jesus was raised from the dead by the glory of the father so we are waiting for that time when our bodies will be molecularly changed from this Earth suit Earthly material to Heavenly material but there's that progression and it's like an electric stove you turn a little bit of electricity on that little coil on top of the stove gets warm you turn up a lot of electricity it'll get orange hot red hot well imagine our bodies doing that same thing and then going Beyond Death to actually being transformed molecularly into Celestial material Heavenly material so that's you know that's people experience different things that's that's what they're experiencing and going back to what I said earlier is you know and we don't have time to get into it here but an angel the voice of an Angel feels like a person who's anointed by the spirit they feel almost like another Christian uh they're a different class of being but they still have the spirit of God so a person could be in their room praying and worshiping and you may feel like a presence like that first time when the Lord disappeared and reappeared to me and I told him I said it felt like a more an area of of what I was looking at an area close to me was more dense more mass more weighty and and that's where his his presence was weightier was more dense there and the more I gave myself to it like Paul looking steadfastly at the man who had been crippled from his mother's womb Paul had to steadfastly Behold Him and then he perceived Faith to be healed it's the same way you can be sitting there in worship and maybe you've had this before where you felt like okay somebody's in the room and it feels like the presence of the Lord but it's not the Lord himself you can tell there's a difference that is often an angel you're you're an angel that's there uh maybe just worshiping with you maybe just observing uh nothing to be afraid of the things of the Lord or uh again at abnormal versus normal Christianity if you look at the book of Acts as normal Christianity then these things will become normal to you does that make sense really good sense I mean like I feel I feel playing things that okay we knew pieces of it like you you you brought out a big picture as opposed to like see the force through the tree stuff like that so we're actually seeing a bigger picture of some things that we already knew a little bit about but you're expounding on it well I like to say Revelation is something you always knew but never realized oh that's deep Revelation is something you always knew but never realized so so the holy spirit will bear witness it'll resonate with you and it's like yeah I knew that somehow yeah that makes sense and and so when you're and that's how you can go into a service and you can say you know what I feel like the presence of the Lord for healing is here or somebody's going to get healed or somebody's going to get delivered today because you can get you can become you can become accustomed to and and and and and well trained in telling the mood of the Lord so to speak early on Jennifer I'll let you share this early on when I was first learning this uh as a as a young pastor and you know these visitations and everything I as a pastor I would prepare for a Sunday morning sermon you know for a teaching and I'd teach people and there were times where I wouldn't get anything for Sunday morning I mean Thursday night you know it's like Father you got to tell me it's like what do you want me to share on Sunday morning Friday nothing I remember the first Sunday morning getting there with nothing I've got a church full of people expecting something we're in the midst of the worship and suddenly like three verses down on the inside of me while I'm worshiping and and it's like I know I'm supposed to teach on those three verses and it happens just before it's time for me to get up and and speak and then and then what happened was I sit there and I said father you're not telling me anything I don't have anything for this for this morning I said if you don't count tell me something I'm going to get up there and I'm just going to tell them I don't have anything it's like I'm trying to threaten the father with Revelation I'm going to get up there I really will I mean I dare you you know and uh and I learned I learned that that from just observation and some of the things that the Lord had said that the way to go into a meeting even in our house churches I will I will oftentimes ask what is his mood what what's is the emphasis going to be on on worship is the emphasis going to be on the word or sharing Revelation or teaching or something or is it going to be on Ministry where is your mood father what do you want to do it's either going to be in in in the word the worship or prayer so I began as a pastor and then then later when we started our house church meeting you know when when people lead we take turns like like they did for the first 300 years we take turns who leads and we and we we rotate who hosts so that the burden is not on any one family and so whoever is hosting often leads and it's not about sermons there's no sermons involved uh it's it's a revelation it's something God taught you this week it's it's it's just discussion oriented not sermon-oriented house search I'm talking about and so you know I just sometimes I'll tell people I said just just ask him is your mood more in in the word the worship or or Ministry what do you what do you want if it's the word sometimes he'll Quicken averse to them sometimes he'll he'll bring up an incident that happened earlier in the week and it'll be about a revelation that they learned during this or that event and and so you you follow life I I say it this way the the way we used to do church is that you and live is the way is we used to build a structure to form a structure and then try to breathe life into it you know as a pastor it's like okay we're going to start a bus Ministry now we need volunteers the bus Ministry is the structure and now we need volunteers that's trying to breathe life into them so in the old way we used to build a structure then try to breathe life into it but the Way I Live Now is I look for life and then if life needs a little structure to help facilitate it I build just enough to help the life and when life changes so can the structure because it's never a permanent fixture and so it's so instead of trying to breathe life into a structure we try to find life and then just do what we need to do to facilitate that life and you live like that you look for those Rhema words you look for that Revelation and if something like right now I'm reading about you know half a dozen different things each one of those I've had something that have been quickened to me or a revelation things that I I'm speaking on I was reading in in uh first John in the opening verses of First John I just sat down to to read first John 1 uh the in the word the word was was with God the I'm not not talking the gospel I'm talking about first John his his first letter and he said we are here to tell you the life of God was manifested we saw it we held it with our own hands and the life was manifested and that just jumped out at me in the first three verses four verses five verses of First John chapter one I've been meditating on the fact that the life has been made manifest that what we have is life it's not philosophy it's not it's not logic it's not um you know any wisdom of man it is life and Jesus is the life of the father who was who became flesh and now that life dwells in me that's one thing uh the other thing uh goes back to First Corinthians 2 verses four and five I've been thinking on for some time what I mentioned earlier the power of God that our it goes from something that was quickened to me earlier um that our faith should not stand in the wisdom of men but in the power of God what does that mean and that's what we talked about earlier so those are two things and I so I've got two separate meals going on just in that alone that I'm chewing on and I will shift my attention it's like oh okay I'm going to go back and think more surely there's more uh that I can receive about life the life was manifested first John chapter one lines up with the Gospel of John chapter one so I'll go over there and I'm going to read about how John wrote How The in the gospel that the life of God was the light of men and how men some men loved the darkness rather than the light and then they don't want to come to the light because their deeds would be exposed but the humble person will come to the light you know and so I meditate on these things because I've always lived with this motto race to the Judgment run to the light that's that's just how I race to the Judgment run to the light I just say father if there's anything impure in me then you know then Shine Your Searchlight on it and clean it up let's let's get it dealt with because Jesus you're going to have the final word in my life and I want you to say welcome friend you know well done you know I want I want to be as pure as I can before him and I'm not perfect ask my wife ask my kids ask my grandkids I'm not perfect I'm but I'm trying you know trying to to mature even more I think you're done pretty well so far so let's talk about things in the future because you set yourself up you mentioned to us that home churches meant or the Lord's told you that home churches are set now for a time to come what do you believe the time to come will be and you also mentioned that uh in your newsletters you tell of things that the Lord showed you of things to come so do you mind elaborating on both of those what is your uh yeah I will to a degree let me tell you Jennifer uh back um a few years ago I would share a few things prophetic online and then I found there were so many trolls and so many ungodly people that it was not worth sifting through the junk and the people with issues and agendas and hatred and vitriol to get to the the ones who are positively it was Pearls Before Swine so so that's why I shifted anything that I say prophetic is in my monthly newsletter that is emailed out um but I'll share a few things that I've shared there that if I could go back a little bit in time and if you don't mind I'll just I'll just let it roll John Let It Roll okay back when President Bush and John Kerry were running for office uh when in that Kerry was the Democratic nominee and President Bush was running there was a different feel to the Democratic party it was a different feel in the spirit in the same way like I said earlier you know an addict can sense another the spirits of an addict because they grew up in that household that sort of thing but there was just something just about it so I said father what is what is that different feel and he said this in the Democratic party and this was again some years ago and he said this he said it's the spirit of socialism it can be delayed but it won't be stopped and I said where did it come from and he said it came from Europe because there are some in this country that think the United States should be like Europe and have European socialism you said but that's not what I call this country to so it can be delayed but it won't be stopped okay we're in the midst of that process now some 20 years later uh another thing after the Patriot Act was passed which which was a result of the Twin Towers falling the attack on 9 11. and the Patriot Act followed on that and I said father what do you think I'm always asking the father his opinion on things now that's a good practice for people to get in the habit of just talk to the father just communication wise just get to know your heavenly father um because every prayer in the New Testament is to the father from The Lord's Prayer on everything is to the father if you want to know something ask the father he's as James 1 says he's the source of all every good gift and every perfect gift comes down from the Father of Lights there's no variableness there's no changing to his character and of his own free will he birthed us that we should walk in things that he's prepared anyway so I said what do you think of the Patriot Act he said he said he said laws that were passed to protect my children will one day be used against them okay so Flash Forward it's now um um let's go let me insert this one because it has nothing to do with with this it's just having said that let me insert this just for safety zone during the Arab Spring the Lord appeared to me uh during the Arab Spring and you know there are all these protests going on around the Arab Nations and I was asking about different nations and what would happen to them Israel Etc and I asked him about Egypt finally this is like third or fourth fifth question and said what about Egypt is Egypt going to become like Iran is it is going to become a a nation like Iran he said no he said he said Egypt will not will not fall at this time of uh to be like Iran and then he stopped and he said but what are these things to you as for you you must be about the father's business so that helped direct me away from the Curiosity about what's the buzz tell me what's happening you know to I've got to be about the father's business so I exhort everybody who's watching and listening to to that same degree okay so in early was 2009 2010 the Lord appeared to me and he said he he's well let me go back like I said November 4th of 2001 when he told me to do this and I asked him why he wanted me to start a house Church in House Church Network and he said this structured in such a way to facilitate the development of house churches around the world when I asked him he said and said why do you want me to do this he said it's against a time to come so be a resource for them for it's against a time to come so in 09 he he appeared again and and he said you're going to see an underground economy develop in my body and I said what do you mean and he said you'll he said you'll hear of giving and receiving trading and trading and bartering giving and receiving buying and selling I said you know in my mind I'm thinking there's an underground economy anyway among Christians we take care of each other we we give casseroles to one another when there's a funeral or a sick person there's this Underground Exchange of money and resources and services and you've got you know youth groups going to rake an old lady's leaves you know in her yard in the fall you know you've got this underground work that's going on in the body of Christ anyway at a certain level so I said what do you mean and he said he said if you were to walk through Jerusalem after Pentecost it would look much like it did in the Gospels there were beggars in the streets widows orphans lepers there were people begging for alms all over the street just like it looked in the gospels he said but if you were a widow in me you had your needs your needs were met your you had family you had a network of support he said that's the underground economy and I and I I asked for for a reference to that and he said you've have you not read in first Timothy 5 where Paul tells Timothy not to take a widow into the account until unless she's 62 years of age and she has has served others washing the feet of strangers and and operated in hospitality and serving another he said this is not a handout he said these women were busy in Ministry in serving others when they were received into to receive Food and support and he said many of these women moved into homes and became surrogate Grand grandmothers and nannies and that's when I had asked my 70 chapter and verse on that and he said where do you suppose Paul got the that to be able to tell Timothy I said he learned it from Peter he learned it from the first year after Pentecost he said exactly and so I started to see that that there's coming a time in the body of Christ where we're going to be very um focused on caring for one another I mean our organization Church of that was International our house churches around the world we follow the biblical pattern that that in in scripture what we see is each House Church is responsible to take care of the needs within itself they gave to leadership which you know we have people who give into our ministry from different house churches uh they give to one another you're free to give give to one another you're free to give to Ministry you see that that each one each house search is responsible for its own but if there is a need that's larger than any uh one house church then they appeal to the network and you see this in Acts chapter 11 and in Antioch when agabus prophesied of the famine that would happen in Jerusalem and Judea and so it says they received an offering and they sent it in with Paul and Barnabas when they were headed to Jerusalem you see it also in like Romans 15 and first uh First Corinthians 16 and second Corinthians 8 and 9. so what you're going to see Jennifer is you're going to see people who are meeting in small groups and they're taking care of one another if somebody is hurting you know they're going to be moved to to fill up their Pantry full of food or or they're going to pay their utility bill and if a need is larger then they'll appeal to other house churches that they know or we get requests you know in our organization we we give money out to those in our Network because the needs often are you know emergencies happen so in our Network we've done everything we're paying doctors bills to mortgages to tuition to car tires you know to all sorts of stuff as needs are larger than the local body can handle it's but it's going to expand you know throughout the body of Christ and in the west especially I think you already see it in places where there's persecution or economic difficulty you see things like in China and India in particular uh but in the west uh with economic uh difficulties and um and persecution that's going to be coming up more so where Christians are going to be blamed for the economic ills of the nation you're going to see Christians Gathering more and more and more into themselves and uh so you're going to have people on the outside who are looking with kind of envy and kind of wondering you know their needs are met they've got this network of support I'm all alone and that's even Chris Christians unfortunately who think that they're going to get their mortgage payment from their Auditorium church or they're going to you know they're suddenly find themselves all alone because when they leave that church they suddenly don't have friends or a network of support it's um you know we've got some we've got some time yet but I mean that's on down the road a few years that's where we're headed but even this winter it's going to get tough so wow so so what would you recommend that we do uh my recommendation is relationship-based faith you know my book Return of the first church and I'll make the same offer if somebody if if anybody wants to email me at cwowi AOL.com I will gladly email you the PDFs to return to the first church which is my journey from the auditorium to relationship-based Faith and also pursuing the seasons of God which is about some of the early visitations uh that I had with the Lord just email me at cwowi AOL.com and I'll be happy to email the PDFs to you but what it is Jennifer is you have to Prior prioritize there's a lot in the west about the Christianity is kind of like Jesus come be a part of my busy schedule I'm going to schedule you in like I do the the gym and uh the kids soccer games and stuff like that the time is coming when those peripherals are not going to hold the same place of importance and we're saying Jesus I give you my whole life and so Christ is in each believer and it is actually a relationship-based faith what I like to say and I've said for years is this anybody can say they're a Christian but that is not proven you can't prove that just because somebody says I am a Christian too it's unproven in his wisdom the Lord has made it so that his righteousness is proven within a framework of relationships that's where righteousness is proven and so my my encouragement to to every believer out there is think about that one or two people that you know that are on the same spiritual page with you you know or or somebody Who You're not sure invest in relationships invest in the relationships have a meal together many house churches many house churches start with just people who are like on the same spiritual page maybe they're they're floating between churches or they're dechurched or they're unchurched and they just they just will get together over a meal um you know Acts 2 42 Acts 2 42 lays out the four things it's very simple in Acts 242. they were in the apostles teaching fellowship food and prayer that keeps it simple have somebody over on a on a some night for a meal you're having Fellowship share what the Lord's been teaching you and and and and and maybe in the midst of that you you talk about hey let's get together on a regular basis uh whatever the case is it's it's Fellowship food uh prayer and uh and teaching something that's on your heart that the Lord shared and you keep it simple you build the relationships invest in the relationships and and do this Jennifer people tend to shop for churches the way they would in a shopping mall and it's a very narcissistic cultural thing Jesus said you know an evil generation looks for a sign but basically that's what people do they shop for a church like they're at some some mall and saying oh this doesn't suit me very well oh I saw signs and wonders over here so I'm going to go over here I want to see you know something spectacular and they just want itching ears they want their flesh tickled I can tell you relationship faith-based relationship based faith is mundane and boring Jesus said in Matthew 225 the church he's coming back for he said I was hungry he said I was naked hungry thirsty sick in prison and you fed me clothed me watered me visited me that's a very low-key under the radar mundane faith that is close enough to individuals that you can help feed clothe water visit you know take in in Hospitality but it's it's where it's at it will affirm you differently you walk into a house church and maybe it's or a small group meeting or you you you you you risk you know meeting that friend at a coffee shop or over at a restaurant just to talk about your faith there's a little bit of risk involved you're not sure how they're going to receive your your thoughts about getting together on a base on a regular basis or just touching base there's a little bit of a risk involved it's not going to affirm you the way stained wood and pews and stained glass and a specific structure of service and and it's not gonna it's not gonna affirm you in that way what happens is there's a shift that happens and you'll find that it's the people who affirm you it's what God is doing in their midst that affirm you you find I want to hear more about what the Lord is doing in this family because wow he really did something amazing last week so how are they doing this week it's that sort of a thing that is real Christianity down to earth that's that's what it's about um now let's swap over really quickly to revelation I think we mentioned Revelation chapter 3 how you mentioned the great falling away isn't what we think it is right now according to Jewish history the great Falling Away doesn't mean what the Western world has been saying it means what does it mean you're asking me to get into the topic um what she's talking about is there's not a short answer to it okay but real briefly the doctrine of the Rapture is a Jewish teaching from the Feast of trumpets God gave seven actually six feasts and one fast to Israel uh four in the spring three in the fall and the four spring ones have been fulfilled Passover unleavened bread first fruits and Pentecost um but there's another one called the Feast of trumpets which is also called Rosh Hashanah there are different names to it and it is noted by the blast of a trumpet and that trumpet is called the last trumpet uh there's a rabbi from years ago from the mission of the commentary of Judaism that says that the last Trump was the right hand horn the right Horn of the ram that got caught in the thicket when Abraham offered Isaac um the left horn was blown at Mount Sinai to gather the nation and the right hand is blown was blown during Isaac's sacrifice as a symbol of the Resurrection and that last trumpet has stayed in the folklore in the tradition in the religion of Judaism as it pertains to the Feast of trumpets it is it is said in Judaism okay this isn't Christianity in Judaism when the last trumpet is blown the dead in Messiah will come to life will be resurrected and will join messiah in the ear in the air and it's going to be a marriage Feast of celebratory Feast after they also will undergo individual judgment But Then followed by a huge celebratory Feast it's not a judgment of heaven or hell it's a judgment of just what did you do with with the life of God in you that's Judaism okay Feast of trumpets begins is the only Festival that begins during the new moon that is when the moon is not shining because in Judaism the sun stands for God the moon stands for believers the moon was made to rule the night from Genesis chapter one and so Believers were made to rule the night rule the darkness and the reason it is blown when the moon is hidden is because the Believers will be hidden away in the Lord and so the the new moon is a picture so when you go out and say oh there's no moon tonight that's a picture of the last trumpet having been blown and the Believers being hidden in Messiah Paul alludes to this in Colossians 2 16 17. he's he called he talks about the Sabbath and everything and he says and the new moon which is a shadow of something to come so Paul's talking about the new moon talking about the Rapture happening it's a shadow of something to come it's it's Messiah hiding Believers in himself he he quotes Paul quotes in in Ephesians chapter five I think it's verse 14. where he quotes part of the temple prayer during this time of of Rosh Hashanah I better say that right since I in Ephesians 5 14 Paul quotes the temple prayer during Rosh Hashanah awake you who sleep rise from the dead and Messiah will give you light live soberly in the times recognizing the times Paul paraphrases that in in Ephesians 5 14. so there is another mention of this Rapture at the first at the Feast of uh the Feast of trumpets and so in Ephesians it Colossians so when you get to Thessalonians in first Thessalonians he mentions twice in verse 9 and then later in Phi in chapter 5 he says God has not destined us to Wrath and he uses the phrase so so when he talks about the trumpet will blow and we'll be gathered together with the Lord in first Thessalonians they want more detail and in second Thessalonians he goes into detail and he says that time will not come unless and he uses the word the falling away and and all the word means is is departure or falling away it can be translated as departure or falling away and translators have added on from the faith that's not in any manuscript that's not in any Greek that is just a paraphrase or somebody transposing their faith you know onto it and the the phrase falling away or departure is the word apostia and you can look in the margin of the Amplified Bible you can look in the Kenneth weast translation w-u-e-s-t I think it is you can look in there and they bring out the fact as well as other word studies that that word originated I'm giving you a little more history now that word means departure and it was it originated with the falling away of a ship's sales as a ship sailed from Port it would fall away out of view over the curvature of the earth and that that's what apostia that's the original meaning of it it meant departure and Jennifer the departure that is the the what we call the Rapture that Paul talked about in Colossians 2 16 17 and and Ephesians 5 14 and first first Corinthians 15 and first second first Thessalonians all that he's talking about there is that the man of sin cannot be revealed until the departure comes first and then he will be revealed Paul says that's the only way that verse Works grammatically because otherwise what he's saying is that the man of sin can't be revealed until the falling away from the faith comes and that makes no sense whatsoever it doesn't make sense in fact a couple verses on down he says now you know what is withholding him from being revealed and he's going to continue to withhold him until he is removed the he being the body of Christ the body Christ is always referred to in the masculine only in only in Ephesians 5 and in Revelation do we see uh the the Heavenly City like a bride adorned and there's a couple of others that Jesus talked about um as a bride as as an allegory as a metaphor rather but everywhere else we're in the body of Christ it's masculine so so there in second Thessalonians he says the man of sin can't be refueled until the departure comes first now you know what is withholding him until he'll be revealed in his time until he is taken out of the way then he'll be revealed and so that is the only way grammatically that passage in second Corinthians or second Thessalonians 2 makes sense and so people can really be at peace the question is who gets to go you know Hebrews 9 26 and 27 says says it is appointed for man once to die and after that the Judgment but for those who are looking for him he will appear a second time to bring him their salvation and Paul is writing to the Corinthians in First Corinthians 15 and says we all will be changed so when you look at First Corinthians 15 you look at the issues in their lives in chapter 3 they were caught up in strife and Division you go all the way to chapter 11 where they some of them wouldn't eat with each other because because of the Prejudice and the bias that was there in Corinth at the time and he said many are weak and sickly and many have died early because you haven't properly judged the body of Christ because they were so wrapped up in Prejudice and bias and yet Paul said all of these people are going to go so apparently it doesn't have to do as much with maturity as it does with the heart doing what you know to do to live for God even in the midst of your imperfections and we all have sinned we all we're all equal in that way we all depend on the blood of Jesus to cleanse us from our sin you know what I mean so I'm not one to judge Hearts that's God's will I can judge the fruit of a person's life we're told to do that you know in Matthew chapter seven but I don't want to judge a person's heart that's between them and the Lord but I would but it appears from what Paul wrote In First Corinthians 15 that although all those carnal Corinthians are expected to run to go up so you know the they're carnal but they're looking for the Lord you know I don't know but I do know this that the word apostia means departure and it's got to be meaning the Rapture the the Feast of trumpets the Jewish Festival that Paul wrote about in First Corinthians 15 Ephesians 5 14 Colossians 2 16 17 first Thessalonians the whole uh book saying we're not destined to wrath and people don't understand Jennifer the word wrath there is a very Jewish thing it always refers to the days of Wrath the last days of mankind during during when Antichrist is alive and well and functioning on the earth the days of Wrath and and that's a very Jewish thing as well and Paul said we are not called to the days of Wrath wrath is one of the terms that's very Jewish um and that's why he said First Corinthians what does it want our first Thessalonians 1 is it nine or ten he says yeah God's not called us to wrap it again in chapter five he said cover you know Comfort yourself with that so yeah yeah that's good I never heard that because like I like I I knew I always knew that um we're not um we're not what do you call would you just say we're not destined to the wrath of God or whatever yeah but I didn't know that when the Bible mentions wrath it's talking about a particular time right yeah it's good very Jewish and and Judaism also teaches that when the last trumpet is sounded the symbols the resurrect remember it was it happened at Isaac's sacrifice it it always symbolized Resurrection but in Judaism then what happens is the the books are opened and God judges or holds accountable the the remaining people on the Earth and they are divided into three groups um the book of remembrance is open that's alluded to and mentioned in Malachi actually but um the books are open and God separates in his mind uh the world into three groups the the completely righteous the completely Wicked and then the largest group is called the intermediates and to this day it is called the intermediates in Judaism and the intermediates are by far the largest group and they have until Messiah comes to decide their fate um the fact that there are those who are completely righteous after that time tell us that many people are going to come to the Lord during that last uh seven years or time frame in in the earth and I think the Book of Revelation brings that out uh because in Revelation 6 there are millions of Martyrs Before the Throne uh in heaven the 144 000 Etc as well so there are a lot of Believers that happen that will miss the Rapture and they're probably unbelievers I think they are unbelievers but they have been told have been told and been told and then however it happens you know Paul said to the unbeliever the coming of Jesus will be like a thief in the night and a thief in the night if you play that out as a metaphor it means somebody breaks into your house to take something that doesn't belong to him and that's the world's perspective of the Rapture Jesus came to get something that doesn't belong to him he took my wife he took my my husband he took my kids he took my grandchildren he took whatever that'll be their perspective Jesus is like a thief in the night who broke in and took something that doesn't belong to him the reality is we do belong to him but the world's perspective will be Jesus as a thief in the night and and and so anyway that's why many people will come to the Lord after the Rapture they'll say wow this really happened and so you have the completely righteous the completely Wicked who hiding themselves against the Lord and then the intermediates and they have until and the rest of the Revelation the rest of the last seven years is all about trying to win those people to the Lord that they'll make it right so and I'm glad you mentioned to the unbeliever he'll come like a thief in a night yeah so which means do you feel like we'll know something the day of well Paul wrote that to the Thessalonians he said it's not for me to I don't need to tell you the times and the seasons you know but when they say peace and safety then destruction comes they will say you know that he comes as a thief in the night so it's going to be interesting to see and I think that's what the excitement is in the body of Christ that you know everybody knows we're we've got to be closing in on something you can feel it in your spirit it's a mystery it's a secret it's not for us to know but um but anyway you can tell that we're getting close because there are a lot of end times scriptures that are just lining up just you know just in order it's amazing amazing to live in yeah do you believe that God intends for everyone to be in the spiritual and in the natural like the Lord has given you the ability to you know I believe that we can all be sensitive to his realm of the things of like I said to be sensitive what his mood is you know when you walk into a church service or a Home Gathering or whatever the however you celebrate the Gathering of the Saints you can be sensitive to that and that you I believe you can be sensitive to to what he's trying to share with you or if there's an angel in the room or or you know if the Lord is in a service that sort of a thing I can't I can't do anything to to say you know the Lord's going to open your eyes to see him or to see an angel I can I I believe we're all called to be sensitive to his Spirit to know what's going on in spirit to have a degree of Sensitivity I know it's a lifelong process I mean speaking you know from experience it's a lifelong process and uh but the the Discerning of spirits that is manifesting somebody's eyes open to the spirit realm or something like that that's that's on him I don't know about that I can teach people to to be sensitive to a spirit to be able to tell his mood so to speak you know where are you moving today sort of thing uh there's a place in Luke where it says the the power of God was there to heal you know it's like okay sometimes he's there for healing sometimes not uh sometimes the the Lord wants to go in a different way any anybody can be trained to be sensitive to that if they will listen to take their mind just what's happening in the spirit and just say father teach me help me to be sensitive and it'll be in subtle ways through your daily life a person at a store person at work picking up on it that person that crosses your mind all week long responding to that it's like Hebrews 5 14 says it's by trial and error it's by reason of use you train yourself in this but beyond that I I I who knows you know the Lord has to be able to trust people and a lot of people are like well if only I saw Jesus you know if I could just ask him one question or it'll be so great if I saw Jesus or my angel or or if you see Jesus again could you ask him about this or that and they would Elevate that experience above where it should be like I said if you have the mindset that the book of Acts is normal Christianity then you're just going to take it in stride you're just going to say you're just going to say oh yeah yeah I was worshiping last night and I sensed my angels in the room and the Lord just really downloaded something to me it's not like I Heard a Voice but there was just a download of something that my mind doesn't know yet but I was affected in my spirit um and it's just part of my life then you'll go about your life and the Lord can trust you with more but if you're going to run around go oh well I saw an angel or I saw Jesus or whatever then he's not going to because he's not into uh into causing people to get lifted up in Pride or or arrogance or or something like that or you know what I'm saying it's just if you have that mindset this is normal Christianity to move in the things of the spirit that Christianity has to be Supernatural um then then you will long for it you'll long for that righteousness you'll long for his presence in your life you'll start talking to the father conversationally then you'll listen for the quiet reply you'll listen just for the very subtlety you'll get up in the morning and the first thing you'll do is check his presence down in there say oh that's so warm it feels so good you know your presence is in me and and you'll you learn to commune with him on that level Spirit to Spirit and and it's a way of life what he does beyond that that's up to him as always a wealth of information John Finn so where can people find you again I know you mentioned it twice or three times but I want you to mention it again and where can they get your book pursuing the seasons of God and return of the home Church Church yeah Return of the first church as my journey from the auditorium to relationship-based Faith um on our website is a good place I I don't I don't know the ins and outs of Kindle and Amazon and stuff but I know the e-versions are out there but our website cwowi.org and on our website you you've got resources uh there's all kinds of things there you can go like Network details you can see all the some things around the network you can see some of the kids and everything in Uganda and Kenya that we support as part of the house searches there um just updates around and let me tell you this too sign up for my weekly thoughts and my monthly newsletter because we don't announce conferences and zoom meetings and stuff like that on the website you know that's only in the headers of my weekly thoughts which is the weekly teaching and my monthly newsletters and that's simply because again you know we really only we don't want people who we just want the people who are genuine who are really looking for God and looking for people on the same spiritual page um and now with a network in over 50 Nations and people who aren't even in house church yet but they at least are meeting other people through our Zoom meetings through online meetings and conferences and stuff they're meeting people on the same spiritual page and then just builds momentum for them so cwowi.org send for my weekly thoughts also be aware Jennifer and you're very gracious but I also do a weekly teaching short weekly teaching on YouTube uh the seven to 14 minutes in length every Wednesday morning their post I've been doing it for five years so that means there's there's what 250 or so teachings on there either look me up by name uh or look up super House Church all one word on YouTube and uh and as always Jennifer this is a wonderful we've just covered so much today but I really appreciate your uh your friendship your graciousness your camaraderie in the spirit um and I just like you I just want to bless the body of Christ I just want I want people to know the way ways of our heavenly father so they can walk in the ways the acts Will Follow The Miracles will follow but if you know his ways then he can commune with you in ways that are a little deeper than just looking for water out of a rock or you know Mana in the wilderness so anyway thank you so much John I mean you've always been an inspiration to me I've been following you for I think five years because your ministry is so profound and it's so biblical and it's It's Supernatural and it's natural and it's always backed up by the word of God so that's why I really find that your ministry is something really profound and I don't say that about a lot but you're doing something really great for the Kingdom so could you close us out in prayer um for those who want to know the Lord and the way that you've been able to know him not in a prideful way like you mentioned earlier just to say I saw Jesus or an angel but that I really want that relationship with Jesus Christ where I want to walk in the spirit yeah and it's really especially with the father especially the father God you know I always ask father like Ephesians 1 17 and Colossians 1 8 and 9 and and uh that you would continue I pray for everybody here that you would Open the Eyes of their understanding and that Ephesians 3 14 15 that you would strengthen them by your spirit in their inner man so that they can know the height depth length breadth the width the fullness of the volume of the love of Christ father God that there are people who don't want religion anymore they are tired of the politics they're tired of being hyped they're tired of all the distractions they would love you Lord if they could know you outside of the way you are packaged to them and I pray for those people there who are hungry to know that you Lord Jesus and know you father like John 14 6 says Jesus is the way the truth and life but nobody comes to the father but by Him Father God you are our destination Jesus is the way but but father you're the destination so I ask that you draw people to yourself that you strengthen them by your spirit that you Open the Eyes of their understanding that the ways that that we've talked about here will resonate with them and that is a new chapter in their lives I asked from this time forward that this this new work that it'll be our Rhema words to them it'll be worth deposited it will be nourishment spiritual nourishment in their lives and that that you will just feed them continually even even month or two like some often happens to deposits are made and then two or three months later you go back and say oh that deposit happened two months ago when I sensed that in the spirit or when that happened to me let it be like that father God let these things that they've always known but never realize just continue to bring forth like a Wellspring of living water out of their spirits to to water their lives to truly transform their lives to enter a new chapter a new season in you a new depth and I thank you for it father let our eyes always be on you father God let us let us always be thinking about that shifting between our soul and our spirit man so that we can walk in the in the in the senses of our spirit and be sensitive as we walk through life and we thank you for doing all that father in Jesus name amen amen amen John Finn thank you so much for this amazing wealth of information that's what I'm going to always identify You by wealth of information thank you so much for doing this once again thank you so much we'll talk to you later [Music]

Channel: Deep Believer

Views: 957,576

Keywords: Deep Believer, Jennifer Bagnaschi, I Saw God Last Night, miracles, end times, Starving children, who do bad things happen to good people, John Fenn, Guardian Angel Tells Man What It Was Like When Lucifer Fell and Was Schooled About the Supernatural, cwowi, house church, the rapture, speaking in tongues, grace, love, faith, Christianity, bible verses, the supernatural, angels, Jewish culture, spiritual discernment, wrath of God, how to be in the spirit, trust in God, God, heaven, Jesus

Id: w9AR1Wt3ASc

Length: 137min 19sec (8239 seconds)

Published: Sat Oct 08 2022