How to get more power out of your small Block Ford part 3B

all right you guys so this is so funny so i've this is a 383 here it's one of mine it's just something i built to sell and i was watching uncle tony's garage and he was talking about the best chrysler engine out there and he said he every time i watch that guy i almost always completely agree with what he says if you want to know about mopars watch uncle tony's garage he's the guy's sharp so he made a statement recently when he was talking he has a video about his favorite mopar engine small block and big block he likes the 340 small block which i totally agree with and the 383 was his choice for big block but one of the things he said was he said mopar guys always have two or three or one or two 383 stashed away somewhere well so you see all this that's going on here like a day or two after he said that i was looking around over here for something and i happen to notice i'll shine a light on it right down there you can probably see it i had totally forgotten about that engine but that boys and girls is a 383 short block core and i just laughed out loud when i saw that thing in there because i like i said i completely forgot about it and i thought about what uncle tony said he's like yeah three mopar guys got usually got one or two of those stashed away somewhere that they forgot about it is so true so uh now that the weather's cool i'll probably dig that thing out and build it just for the heck of it so i just thought that was funny hey welcome back everybody today i want to talk to the ford guys out there about the 5 liter v8 now you know you guys have seen the series on the 289 but i've had a lot of questions about what you should be looking for if you want to build a small block forward for for anything now one of the things that i suggest one of the things that we've done in the past with these numbers matching vehicles is instead of going with the original engine the customer pulls the original engine out sets it aside and keeps it all original so that it can go with the classic mustang or torino or whatever the car is find yourself one of these what this is is this is a ford a later model ford five liter v8 out of a mustang or pickup truck or whatever these engines are plentiful i paid 125 dollars for this and it's a complete short block that rotates and of course it's just a core it needs to be rebuilt but i want to talk to you about some of the advantages of going with the later model roller block now there are some differences so i want to kind of point out those differences so that you'll you'll know what to expect if you're going to if you're going to build one of these the one big advantage to the later model block is that it is a factory roller cam block now i know i've told you this before recently i am getting to the point in my engine building business or career whatever you want to call it where i have just completely decided not to mess with flat tapping cams anymore i'm done with them there is no reason to put a flat tappet cam in anything you know that on charlie's 289 we got going here it is a flat tappet cam from the engine it's from a 68 so it's a flat tapping cam for the factory well we obviously are going with a roller we're going to upgrade that to a roller in fact a lot of guys now anymore if they want an engine done i just tell them it's got to be a roller cam matter i don't want to do it either that or i'll do a short block for you you put the cam in yourself if it's a flat tablet cam i'm not going to put it in i'm not going to mess with it there's a lot of disadvantages to a flat tap at cam let me list them off for you number one they don't make as much power you are limited on how much spring pressure you can put on that cam and also the lobes the way that the lobes are designed on a flat tappet they are not nearly as efficient in addition to that they have about two-thirds more breakaway and rolling friction than a roller cam so they rob horsepower the parts are under a lot less and they don't last as long in fact i don't think i've ever seen a flat tappet cam with a lot of miles on it that wasn't worn out didn't have significant wear i've seen roller cams with 300 000 miles on them where the rest of the engine's worn out and the roller cam is pristine has no wear whatsoever so they almost have they have very little rolling resistance on the rollers and if you keep them lubricated they're they're fine the other issue is the oil nowaday nowadays and that is in the mid 90s the epa mandated that a very large percentage of the zddp content which is zinc and phosphorus and copper and some other elements be removed from the oil the reason that they did that is because the the the epa actually approached the manufacturers and said hey this is in the mid early to mid 90s and they said we have a new federal requirement you have to warranty your catalytic converters on your cars for a hundred thousand miles the manufacturers fired back and said well that's impossible we can't do that and the epa says well why not you can't make a part that's capable of lasting a hundred thousand miles and the manufacturers are like well no not with the current oil that we're using because the oil had a zinc and a copper and a phosphorus additive they call it the zddp content it had that additive in it and that additive what it does is it's designed to make flat tappet cams live it literally embeds itself in the cam lobe and creates a sacrificial layer between that flat rotating lifter and the flat tappet cam and that's what protected those lobes well the epa said well why do you guys need that in the oil [Music] and the manufacturers at that point have pretty much all gone to roller cams and they're like well we don't really needed any oil so new epa mandat mandate removed the majority of the zddp from the oil the result of that was the following years there was a lot of camshaft failures in fact tens of thousands probably hundreds of thousands of flat tappet cams went flat it's the same story i've heard over and over and over and over over the years and it still happens occasionally because people aren't aware of this oil thing so when they took that zddp content out of the oil the on-the-shelf oil the flat tappet cams lost all their protection so guys building motors with a flat tap of cam they didn't even get three or four thousand miles out of their motor before the lobes were completely shredded off the cam and the whole engine was destroyed this was a common thing it doesn't have to happen that much anymore because a lot of people are aware of this the other thing is if you're going to run a flat tap at cam nowadays you have to run special high zinc oil you got to run driven you got to run one of the performance oil manufacturers oil that is high and rich in zdtp designed specifically for flat tapping cams now that oil is actually not legal to use in cars with catalytic converter but i mean who's going to know so so that's the deal with the with the flat tablet cams the other thing is when you first fire up a motor an engine with a flat tappet cam you got to rev the engine up to 2000 rpms for the first 20 30 minutes to get the brake in done because the the cam is splash lubricated from the crank and during the break in process for that flat tappet lifter and cam they don't get enough oil at idle and you if you let it idle you shred the lobes off the cam with a roller all those problems are eliminated if we have a roller cam it uses a roller lifter this is a ford roller lifter out of our 5-0 here one of the old ones we're not going to reuse these but i'm just showing it to you for demo purposes the roller heads two-thirds less rolling resistance or friction that's a parasitic two-thirds of the parasitic draw that the cam creates is eliminated i don't have to use any kind of zinc additive in my oil i can use regular oil off the shelf and there's no break-in period i just put these in fire it up let it idle do my tuning boom the other thing is the roller cam you are capable of much more aggressive low profiles and you're also capable of much heavier spring pressures which helps the rpms of the engine come up quicker and it it also dictates how fast the rpms come up when you stop on the throttle these are a much better choice so like i said i've gotten to the point where if you want to do a flat tappet cam don't even call me we're not doing it we're going to do rollers right go roller or go home that's that's my thing now the retrofit roller kit for charlie's 289 block that we got and then of course on the early 289 we have the tie bar set up and that's the roller lifters that the anti-rotator is the tie bar instead of that crow's foot and those basically just go in there like that so you got they come in pairs now they do make the spider assembly set up for the early engine it's a retrofit kit it's not the same lifter as the factory roller but it is a it is a spider assembly setup and you have to drill two holes here and here before you put the cam bearings in but it ends up being about the same price by the time you buy the crow's feet and the lifters and everything so we just go with the tie bar set up on the early ones it just it's about the same price and it's easier to set up you don't have to you don't have to drill the holes and set that up and stuff so but you can do it either way but just make sure you don't use the late model factory roller cam lifters in the early block because they are not the same they will not work out over there and they are much cheaper like half the price of a retrofit kit so you can get into this with a roller you got a roller ready block and the way this comes it it has this spider assembly in the lifter valley here much like a vortex chevy but this has two bolts instead of three so from the factory these roller lifters they have if you look at this roller lifter it has a flat spot machined onto it right there now over each set of lifters you have what they call the dog bone bracket and that that just goes right over the lifter there it sits on the lifters and you got a pair of lifters in here and as they sit in their bores that dog bone just catches those flat spots now what this does is that keeps that holds the roller in line the roller has to be held in line with the cam this lifter cannot spin or turn otherwise you get yourself in trouble so but from the factory when you see these motors and if you're looking for one of these in the bone yard what you want to do is look in the lifter valley of the engine and you'll see these dog bones in here on each set of lifters now i don't have a cam in this so the lifters are kind of falling through there but another thing you'll see is you'll see this spider assembly bolted right in there like that it's got a couple of bolts that hold it down to the lifter valley here so if you look in the lifter valley you pull the intake and you see this assembly with the dog bone on each one of them this is what you're looking for that is the roller cam setup from the factory and that's what you want if you and and if you find one like in an explorer they all had roller cams with a set of gt40 heads with a three bar the four bar heads you got yourself a gem there hopefully at the bone yard you can pick it up for a song and you got yourself a really good builder as long as it rotates so so when we we talk about the 5-0 roller block that's what we're talking about and also you'll see a retaining plate on the front much like you have on the other one it's a little different plate it uses an extra oil hole down here the earlier retaining plate does not have this extra provision here and also you'll notice if you see what it says it says bottom back so this this plate here is directional what this extra little tang does here it has an oil groove in it is that takes oil from an oil gallery hole and it this thing goes on just like that and this gives extra oil to our thrust area here because the there's a little bit more stress on the thrust plate the earlier plate you saw in the last video it's just a it doesn't have this provision out here for that extra oiling and it will actually go on either way on the earlier ford so that's another difference is that the plate is going to be different here one nice thing is is if you're if you're doing a if you're doing a chiming chain cover you can use the early cover on here now the later model cover for the 5.0 does not have a provision for a mechanical fuel pump this is just blocked off here but you can use the early cover on the late model block and it bolts right on the other thing the late model cover doesn't have is it doesn't have a dipstick hole so if you're doing an early classic mustang or something you're going to want to use the early cover or replacement cover that has the dipstick hole in it here and has a provision for your mechanical fuel pump and it will bolt right on to the late model block that's one nice thing about that it takes the same timing chain and gear set with no problem so everything else on the front is the same the distributor mounting is the same one thing that i want to point out here on the back of the engine and that is the crankshaft in the later model block is different not only does it have a different external balance weight but it is a one piece rear main seal now the nice thing about the one piece rear main seal is it's actually a better seal than the two piece that they had on the earlier so you're actually getting a good good upgrade with the ones one piece seal here and you also got to make sure you put the right flex plate on it the thing is the early model flex plate will bolt on here but you got to be careful with that because they have a different balance and it's weighted differently you're going to want to get this balanced anyway but do not put the early model flex plate on here you got to have the later one with the the heavier balance weight the bell housing bolt pattern is exactly the same as the early one so that's one nice thing about it now the only other thing that is an issue here is if you're running a standard transmission the earlier block has a provision here on the side of the block and this is for the clutch linkage if you have a manual transmission in the car so this is the early 289 and the 302 was the same way and also the 351 had this on the later model 5-0 that is not there so the thing is on the 5-0 block on the later 5-0 block you don't have that boss here for your your clutch linkage and so but there are companies that make an aftermarket linkage that bolts on and takes the place of that but just remember your factory four-speed linkage is not going to work with this block you got to buy an adapter kit other than that i mean those are the main differences the the it does have a different crankshaft obviously in a different balance and i believe different connecting rods as well but you're going to get all that balanced anyway but it's a really it's basically a bolt in deal i have another video where i'm talking about how to get they make a special conversion balancer that'll work on both engines in other words it has the weight it's weighted correctly for the crank balance on the late 5-0 but it has the bolt hole provisions and so forth and the offset for all of the early 289 302 pulley assemblies so there there is professional products makes that balancer and it's really handy to buy that it's not that expensive so if you're looking for a really good upgrade look for a 5-0 roller motor they're plentiful they're all over the boneyards they're cheap and i know i'm getting messages even on that 289 build is always you guys to say hey you want more power out of a small block ford put an ls motor in it you know so listen if you guys are are posting and a bunch of you are posted on these videos about these fords and you're saying just put an ls in it come on man just stop that this isn't an ls swap video this isn't an ls upgrade video it's for the guys that want to upgrade their 5.0 and there's plenty of them out there you know you want to put an ls in your ford powered car you go right ahead but you're going to triple the price of what you're going to pay to do one of these it's just way more expensive and yes they make power i'm doing an ls1 video right now for you guys that love the ls watch the ls1 build okay you don't see ford guys jumping on the ls build going ah just put a coyote in it you know you don't you don't i mean come on it's just nonsense and like i said before in my opinion if you take a old classic mustang and you put an ls motor in it you just ruin the value of the car i have nothing against ls motors i've done a ton of swaps i've built a ton of them but this is a ford video and you know watch the rivalries guys so the the the car companies want people to have rivalries that's how they do marketing i said this a long time ago in a video if you are around people in the industry that build motors and work on cars and do performance stuff if you get into a a rivalry about brand ford chevy dodge whatever from my perspective somebody who's doing all of these all the time that is an amateur move that those attitudes of chevy sucks and ford's the best or forged garbage chevy rules of the world or mopar or no car you know i look at that when i hear that from people and in the back of my mind i mean i might not say anything to you but in the back of my mind i'm just thinking amateurs that that's the way us experienced guys view that because i've got every make and model here right for gm i got chevy i got pontiac i got oldsmobile we got ford we got a bunch of chrysler stuff they all have their advantages and disadvantages and to be honest with you i really like ford engines this this small block ford regardless of what you think if you're a chevy guy and this engine is legendary it really is it's cheap and it has a ton of horsepower capability it's a big bore short stroke motor and you can make crazy horsepower with this thing so you know you can say whatever you want but you're probably wrong if that's what you're getting into right so keep that in mind and also if you post in my comments i'm getting to the point where it's like if you get on a ford video or a chevy video and you say you know part it out and put a chevy in it or ls swap it or whatever you know what i'm just going to delete your comment your i read those comments every day and if that's your mentality i i don't have time for it it's just it's just pure nonsense that's all it is all right so hopefully that gives you ford guys some insight into uh what to be looking for and like i said i paid 120 dollars for these including the spider assembly the dog bones and instead of used lifters i'm not going to reuse the lifters but but uh when i get time i might do a teardown video on this and get a little more into it hopefully that helps you have any questions below uh go ahead and ask and i'll do my best to answer i can't answer everything i get literally 100 to 150 messages a day plus a bunch of emails so i hope this helps you and i appreciate you watching and we will get back on the 289 and the pontiac and everything else soon next day or two got the checking push rod supposed to be here today for that pontiac so we can set up the valve train so hopefully we'll get that video done and get that make that customer happy thanks for watching and i will talk to you very soon i promise it's like seven or eight hundred bucks for the roll the the the cam and the lifters it is and that's one of the reasons that a lot of people kind of shy away from going with a retrofit roller in an older block because it's expensive it used to be you know five six years ago it was a thousand bucks they've come down in price now but still and by the way 700 is well worth the money trust me now the advantage to the factory roller is you can get a roller cam shaft in this block it's not a retrofit kit it is a cam designed for engines originally equipped with a roller cam from the factory i.e the later model 5-0

Channel: Myvintageiron7512

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Length: 21min 55sec (1315 seconds)

Published: Tue Nov 03 2020