How to Create Your Dream Future: Dr Tara Swart | Feel Better Live More Podcast

i'm very concerned about how we're going to readjust when things you know go back to how they were or the new normal whatever that's going to be i don't think we've paid enough attention to how difficult that might be for people there could be a mental health crisis under the radar of this and or there could be a spiritual revolution and actually you know there are bits of both [Music] so tara welcome back to the podcast it's so lovely to be connected with you although remotely um after having you know you were the first podcast that i did when my book came out and um yeah it's bringing back lots of memories and it's just the whole world is different now right yeah it really is and i i knew i always knew we'd do a part two at some point i i was hoping we'd be face to face again but clearly um the the current world situation is not allowing us to do that so we're gonna have to use technology for one of its amazing um you know one of his amazing roles which is it can help us connect right so we're able to have this conversation tara and i remember our conversation really well not only because i loved it but i remember my audience absolutely loved the content in our conversation um if people are watching this on youtube or they're listening if you haven't heard the first conversation i had vitora i would highly highly recommend it but i know on the back of that torah lots of my audience actually bought your book the source and i still get messages about how much people find it useful and are applying a lot of the techniques in there so thank you very much for agreeing to come back on the show it's an absolute pleasure um it's interesting you should say that because i've had a lot of messages from people saying they're re-reading it now which which kind of makes sense you know and to some extent i think if i hadn't written those things down and actually you know have it in a book that i can pick up if i need to i might be struggling a bit now you know i mean there are definitely lots of things in there that are very helpful at the moment yeah for sure and actually you know there's a few things we we did cover last time i think we are going to try and move the conversation on but i do think it's worth you know i do i do think it's worth retouching on some of them because i think they have a different relevance in the current pandemic and the way many of us are feeling but let me tell you about one thing i have found really really useful um i find it useful anyway but particularly in the pandemic i found very useful it's something you spoke about last time and you've written about and that's journaling so i also written about journaling i think it's so so powerful i think i've heard you say before somewhere that it's one of the most powerful and most impactful things that you do on a regular basis so i i wonder if you could talk about journaling why it's so useful why you find it useful and actually why in the pandemic it might be a brilliant time to start if you don't already deal with stuff that's such a good point so i remember last time the point of difference that you liked about how i spoke about journaling was that it's not just about downloading your thoughts and your emotions although there's a lot of benefit to doing that to get them off your mind and you know to reduce your stress levels but it's about reading back over and charting your sort of emotional journey or your personal development so everything seems like it's two sides of the coin at the moment it could be that you know you're downloading a lot of negative emotions conflicts at home you know difficult times but also it's an opportunity to evolve as a person um so so now is a really good time to do it because it's helpful to just download but when you look over it it can help make a lot of sense of things so um one of the models that i'm using at the moment that's really helpful and it would come up in journaling is it's an old 1960s psychological model it's actually related to grief it's known as the kubler-ross grief curve and it was later remodeled as the change curve and it's used in management and business and it's basically about any unexpected change shock grief um that happens to you that you you know you didn't you didn't choose you didn't want it to come into your life so you know very relevant now the emotional journey that we go on as a result of that and it talks us through shock denial anger depression and then some sort of finding meaning and purpose in it and moving towards acceptance now using a model like that for journaling could could be really really helpful right now um i'm particularly finding that people who are you know confined in a household it's so obvious that we don't move through that curve at the same rate necessarily so you know if you're having a down day if you're feeling like things are really getting on top of you and it's really you know at the front of your mind that we don't know how long this is going to go on for but your wife is in a different part of the curve that can sort of create some kind of tension in in the family and so understanding that and journaling is a great way to do that to surface that um is really helpful because it's likely at the moment we'll go through that curve several times as restrictions get eased maybe you know as things change maybe they go backwards and each time we can use that model or just our journaling you know what we read in our own journal to understand where we are emotionally now i love that explanation and one thing i have found myself but also a lot of people have fed back to me is that you know when you journal often things come out that you didn't even know were there so you have these anxieties and these worries that are that are whirling around your minds and if you don't have a way to process them they stay there or they can impact how you feel that day your stress levels your relationship whether you snap at your kids whether you snap at your partner and i find that journaling each morning you know for me it's something that you know i get up before everyone else in my house it's something i've always liked to do and you know i do a bit of a morning routine but sometimes i'll be sitting there with a cup of coffee or a cup of tea or a hot drink with a journal and i just write whatever comes down i quite like free-form journaling so with no set questions i have to answer i know some people like questions and that's completely fine but for me i like free-form journaling and i think oh well that obviously was on your mind you didn't quite realize it was on your minds so the journaling is incredibly useful but i think the other thing you mentioned there is really really key and that's well there's quite a few things you mentioned one of them is that different people in the same household can be feeling differently about the same problem and therefore unless we understand that this can cause disharmony this can cause fights between partners you know parents and children and so yes having an understanding of that's important but what can we actually do about that yeah so that's where journaling really comes in because if you write down how you're feeling like i know you like to do that morning pages then you know just that freeform how i'm feeling then when you can reflect afterwards about why maybe a conflict occurred or why you felt like somebody wasn't on the same page as you or they got snappy with you or you got snappy with them you can start to equate whether it's a physical feeling whether it's just the mood that you wake up in in the morning to a certain emotional state and then if it happens again you can recognize it maybe a bit earlier and maybe not go as far as snapping you know you might say i'm having a bad day um i'm feeling the same as i did you know three weeks ago when x happened but you might find some strategies to not snap so you know you may go for a walk um you can it can help you make the decision between is it the right day to go for a family bike ride or do you need a bit of time to your sap for example that that is so key isn't it because let's talk about parents you know we are both parents we have children in the house with us during this period and it's something that can pose some challenges that can be some wonderful benefits of that but there can also be you know a bit less time to ourselves and i've noticed this with my wife a little bit like sometimes we will go all out together the four of us on a bike ride or a walk where sometimes she'll want me to take the kids so that she can go for a walk herself and i guess what we're fundamentally talking about is awareness and awareness of how we're feeling and an awareness of what we need and you know i don't know what you think of this torah but i think unless you have some degree of solitude in your day some time to reflect in some way whether that's journaling or sitting in the garden staring at the birds i think it's very hard to actually know what's going on in your own body and your own minds i think it's so interesting that you've picked that up because most people are you know the narrative is i don't have as much connection as i normally do you know some people might be completely on their own or it might you know they might be just a couple so it's interesting you said we've both got children but you know i'm a step parent and my mind's an adult and so we're not actually together so that's a separate concern you know somebody's on their own are they lonely what's happening to their mental health um so my husband and i find ourselves alone together for the first time since we've you know been married um and it's very easy to focus on not being connected to many friends or other members of the family but it's very interesting how i actually find i really need time to myself even though i'm only with one other person um and i think people get into a routine we sort of naturally we have all our meals together but in between that he goes to a study i i work from here and then at five or six o'clock we come together to do some exercise and then it's cooked in there and you know watch watch something on the tv basically so we've got a little routine like that and one of my friends because she is homeschooling and working um i said hey you know i've just got a husband to look after you've got a husband a son a dog and two cats and she said the other day all of us were sitting on the couch together and she said the more time we spend together the more we want to be together so you know there are so many different experiences of what we're all going through now yeah and i think it's one of those things that possibly isn't getting spoken about enough maybe because we feel insensitive talking about the possible upsides of lockdown but i think i think it's okay to do that i think we can recognize on one hand yes this is hard some people are having their businesses ruins economic hardship they're going to lose their jobs that have been more anxious mental health problems some people obviously getting hospitalized um you know people are having loved ones die you know i get it on one hand clearly a lot of negatives but there's always positives that we can take from negative experiences and it's something i guess we touched upon on our first conversation about how you know your divorce uh my experience of my bereavement well my father dying and how that impacted me has actually caused a lot of changes and a lot of positive changes in our lives on the back of that so you know i think it's okay to say yeah it's it's a hard time but actually you know on a personal level i've got to say there have been many positives i have never spent this much time with my kids and my wife on a consistent basis you know and you know what i realized i love being around them like i knew that anyway but i love it even more and i think well what would life look like if i saw them this much all the time can i um can i sort of start to create a life which actually puts that at the heart of it yeah i completely agree with you and i you know i already said there's two sides to every coin and so you're absolutely right you know there's there's grief there's there's mental health um adjustment issues and you know i'm very concerned about how we're going to readjust when things you know go back to how they were or the new normal whatever that's going to be i don't think we've paid enough attention to how difficult that might be for people but but you're absolutely right there are you know there's so many positives and i've coined a phrase that you know this there could be a mental health crisis under the radar of this and or there could be a spiritual revolution and actually you know there are bits of both so i've definitely had my ups and downs but i'm i've got such a strong focus on my personal development now what i'm reading i'm doing an online course i'm getting coaching um and it's you know in that respect i think it's a wonderful way to look at who you really are it reminds me of john cabot zinn's phrase wherever you go there you are well at the moment there you are all the time 24 7. you can't get away from yourself and so what i've really seen and i'd love to hear what you've noticed in this respect is after i got divorced that's when you know at rock bottom i had a huge realization about my level of determination that it was very very strong and i'd never had a reason to really notice it before but you know when i had to that's what i noticed and now that you know you can't have people coming into the house if you know something breaks like the fridge or the boiler or an electrical switch all examples of things that i've had to deal with in the last few weeks or months and normally where you just pick up the phone and get somebody else to deal with it now i'm like can i change an electrical switch or you know sort of the fridge drawer broke i asked my husband to do it and he said something wrong with it it's impossible and so i said i'll have another go and you know and i kept at it till i did it and it sort of reminded me that that determination that i discovered at the worst time of my life is really playing out now and i think it's so interesting to think what's coming to the fore now good and bad you know because there are things that i'm seeing about myself that i hadn't noticed before that people would call shadow work you know some of these emotions that come up when you're under stress they're more obvious now than they might be at normal times so but i'm taking that as an opportunity to work on those things and i'm reminding myself you know you're you're so determined like what can you get done kind of thing and that's a really good feeling so it's fine to have both like you say yeah i i guess it's really hammering home that theme of awareness isn't it you you're aware of some of these positive qualities and you're choosing to put your attention on them you're choosing to actually feed your brain that information that hey look i i am determined i am resourceful and that really you know that really plays into you know a lot of the themes that you write about you talk about how powerful our thoughts are and how how important it is that we intentionally put our focus on particular areas you know why focus on the negatives why not spend our time focusing on the positives and then that's what we become and you know hearing that it's it made me think yeah this is trivial right this is so trivial but you know i like many busy people i say busy in inverted commerce because i think busyness is a trap that many of us fall into in the modern worlds but a simple thing like i don't know like i've cycled a lot more in the last six or seven weeks than ever frankly for years like every day i'm taking the kids on a bike ride somewhere it's it's brilliant yeah and i realized that i would occasionally get my bike or their bike serviced like i would take it in there's nothing wrong with that but one of their brakes wasn't working the other day and it was an issue and i thought well everything's shut i don't think come on you can do this and you know i spent a bit of time figuring out getting the toolkit out and i fixed it and i know it sounds so small but you know what i had such it felt so good i thought oh i'm i'm able to do that it was just a small thing but it yeah it really made me feel good yeah it's it's it is i totally get it so when i had to phone up the electrical company about this switch i was it you know it described the problem he said it sounds like it's a switch you know the switch needs to be changed and i was like could i do it and he said well you know it's like for like if you open it up and you see where it is and you change the part you just you know put it back to how it was and i said i am a scientist i think i could do it you know and it's um it i've been doing um in this personal development work sort of revisiting some of my childhood like who were you before you know sort of school and parental expectation and stuff you know moulded you into the adult that you became and one of the first things i ever said apparently was when um you know i was so small that at the age that your parents still brushed your teeth apparently i used to often say i do it i do it and that's definitely coming off again now i'm feeling just so like you know if the brakes failed on my back yeah i definitely would have a go and and i know it would make me feel so good even though it seems like a small thing yeah let's be let's be aware that there's be some people listening to this now who'll go look okay i've never been as stressed as i am right now i've got my kids at home i'm trying to work or i'm an intensive care nurse and i'm doing shifts and i come back and my children are at home and i'm knackered and i see on instagram that people are learning chinese i just want to be able to get through the day so for someone like that who doesn't feel that they've got time you know what would you say to them that they might want to focus on during this period um i've actually so i read a headline that jk rowling has had come out and said you know all those life coaches who are saying this is the time to learn chinese or you know build your new brand should stop shaming people and the neuroscience really supports that that that is the case that i think you know i'm talking about embedding micro habits i'm not saying learn a new language or you know sort of um do lots of things and i completely understand what you're saying there are some people that are just under so much pressure and they can't make time for themselves and they you know don't necessarily want to do lots of new things because they don't have the bandwidth in their brain so i think really the answer is be kind to yourself even if it's just having a bath you know maybe with some magnesium salts um because people who are stressed have high levels of circulating cortisol the stress hormone there's a systemic dryness you know you've got dry skin dry hair there might be issues with um you know bowel movements and things so just paying attention to drinking more water um you know i've got clients at the moment with kidney stones because they're you know so busy trying to fit everything in they're not drinking enough water so i think like i said embedding micro habits doing those small things that you know in your busy life you say oh i wish i could get into the habit of exercising taking supplements but you don't do it well now try to focus on those small things that will actually make your brain and your body more able to cope with the stress that you're going through so i love that advice and it was just so aligned with what i also stand for i think micro habits are very much undervalued um you know i've been speaking about for the whole year five-minute interventions and how five minutes can make a huge difference and we all have five minutes right we all have five minutes if we look at if we if we analyze our day and what we've spent time doing i would i would challenge most people to say they don't have five minutes in the day for a bit of self-care you know and it could be anything it could be fun it's a journaling first thing in the morning it could be lasting at night it could be just before you have your lunch or your dinner you do a quick five-minute workout even less than five minutes right i i try to buy some kettle bells i think two weeks into lockdown and frankly i couldn't find a single one in the entire uk like nothing so i imagine that pretty much every household in the uk at the moment has got some form of home exercise equipment now i don't think you need home exercise equipment but if you've got a dumbbell or a kettlebell right it's like put it in your kitchen or put it in your bedroom so you're always being visually triggered by it and even if once a day you pick it up and do five bicep curls on each arm if that's all you do that is still self-care that is still sending a signal to your body saying you know what i prioritize myself i'm a strong human being that's thriving and we really shouldn't undervalue the value and and just how impactful these small micro habits are especially when you do them consistently yeah i love your you know five minutes a day and you know there are like a there's 30 or more tips in your book isn't there things that you can do for five minutes um my one is i once um so i keep my yoga mat out in my bedroom because it's that trigger you know you sort of feel a little bit um a yoga teacher once said to me when i asked how do you get into the habit of a daily practice so you don't always have 90 minutes or an hour or even half an hour necessarily and she said if you leave your yoga mat out even if you just lie on it for five minutes that's a daily practice if you can do 90 minutes the next day or you know an hour or whatever that's more of your practice but even if you just lie on your mat for five minutes then you've done you connected with your yoga mat every day and last time we talked about self-love which i think is more important than ever now and i think even just lying on that mat is telling yourself i care for myself i love myself i'm taking this time because me being well and whole is important amatore it's so amazing to hear you say this and i just wanna for people listening to this now just let me just reemphasize tara is um a medical doctor psychiatrist health coach neuroscientist lecturer at mit executive coach you know i could list it off that the point i'm trying to make is with all your specialist qualification in a number of different fields you're still saying even five minutes a day of lying on a yoga mat has value and i really want people listening to us to really really absorb that and go it really makes a difference now i just want to add to that and say and and you know a lot of um bj fogg professor b.j folks work from stanford on behavior change talks about the importance of tiny habits um and and really even the point where even if you do one minute you're still engaging in that you're still going through the process of creating that habit like if you make one or two minutes or even five minutes your goal if you do if you do one or two minutes you get your tick some days you'll do 10 minutes sometimes you do 20 minutes but on your bad day still lie on the mat still do your two minutes or your five minutes and it takes the pressure off and i also like what he talks about you've said this before about how emotion also helps us um create these habits of positive emotion right so do you do with your clients with your um with the people you coach do you talk to them about how to create those positive emotions after they've engaged in habits yeah so the way that the word that i use but we're talking about the same thing is intention so it's your intention or desire to do something does make a difference to how likely you are to do it and then the enjoyment of it also has a different effect on your brain of producing endorphins that make you you know they create a sort of motivational pathway where you want to do that activity more so basically choosing something that you enjoy or is really meaningful to you know for me that story of even if you lie on your map for five minutes your yoga mat for five minutes in my mind that's become associated with self-care and self-love so it means a lot more to me than just lying on my mat for five minutes and so each person needs to find that thing for themselves because when the intention is that positive and meaningful you're both more likely to do it and more likely to get more benefit out of it for your brain and your body yeah so you know for example what i said about the cortisol which i agree with you there are lots of positives to you know sort of not being as busy as we were not traveling you know having more time at home having more time with your loved ones but it's still the case that there's a surreal background of something's wrong you know that is there that background anxiety um and so doing these things that can also reduce your stress levels so you know taking a bath lying on your yoga mat doing yoga whatever is for you that you know is the thing that reduces your stress i mean my one is that it's a you know bath with the magnesium salts in because magnesium you know it sort of reduces levels of the stress hormone so if i if you know if i'm having a really bad day i'll just go straight up to the bath um and you know keeping on top of things like ordering your magnesium salts from amazon or whatever so that you they're always there um i've just you know it's just triggered me to remember i'm about to run out so even that's an act of self-care remembering to top up the stuff that you need to keep you going when when you're not having a good day but then absolutely focusing on on the good days i mean you know had a very interesting reflection a couple of weeks ago where i guess i was probably quite grumpy but i you know wasn't that aware of it but then i woke up one day and i just felt so much more positive and i thought oh okay i had two days where i was not really you know feeling that great what can i learn from it you know how can i make sure it doesn't last as long next time um so i have this really nice practice that i'm doing in the morning now which is as soon as i wake up because as you know um i used to do my meditation on the tube well that's you know i'm not doing that now so as soon as i wake up otherwise i find that i don't do it um that's quite that's a tip i've been helping my clients with saying if something's important to you if your self-care do it first thing in the morning um because there's so many distractions now we're working and we're managing the household and you know those things can get mixed up so i ask myself a question whatever i'm working on at the moment and i ask it to my brain for a logical answer and then i do some deep breathing and then i place my hands on my heart and i ask it to my heart for an emotional answer and then i do some deep breathing i place my hands on my belly and i ask the same question for an intuitive answer um and that's something i've written about in the book called which i've called harmony which is that you're aligned in your head your heart and your gut um and it's it's fascinating how you get answers like you said in your journey in your journaling you sometimes write something that you weren't aware of that you didn't expect you get answers that were not at the front of your mind if you push it deeper and deeper so that's something i've been doing with with some of my clients as well tara that's such a beautiful such a beautiful image comes with my mind if that's how you just align everything and you ask different parts of you for the answer rather than most of us often it's just this kind of you know the brain or the emotional brain that's kind of determining what we do and we don't sort of take time to tap into other parts of us to actually tell us and help us to determine what's going on i really really like that um you mentioned before that one of one of the things you predict is that we may either have a mental health crisis on the back of this or a spiritual revolution or more likely a bit of both now i'd love to sort of delve into this a little bit so when you say spiritual revolution i think it's probably worth defining what do you mean by the word spirituality and then we can perhaps go a bit deeper and go why does the current pandemic lead you to believe that many people might start to access this idea in themselves because i agree i absolutely agree many people are questioning life and where they fit into society and what's their role right so perhaps you could start by just defining what do you mean when you say spirituality so that's i don't know whether to answer that or to sort of put it back to your listeners and say you know what it means to you but the way that i you know have described it in the past is that things everything in life can be broken can be you know sort of put into a grid of physical mental emotional and spiritual so physical is obviously what's going on in your body and um i talk about something that you'll know about but i just feel that not many people do which is our our sense you could call it our sixth sense which is interoception which is the understanding of the physiological state of the inside of your body so you know your breathing your digestion um the you know the dryness of your skin that kind of thing so what's going on in your body what mental is what's going on in your thoughts and emotional is what's going on in your feelings so sometimes people say what's the difference between those two but you know thoughts are the kind the nature of the thoughts you're having are they negative are they positive um how many thoughts you're having do you feel quite blank or do you feel like you know there's a million thoughts rushing around your head and then the emotions are do you feel sad do you feel angry do you feel frightened do you feel happy do you feel um you know trust or love and you know the people that you're with or in the process of what's going to happen and then spiritual is really something that's not explained by those three things and it's something that you feel in your spirit or your integrity or your values but i would have to say that during this pandemic i would add something to that which is i did mention it in the book but i think i wasn't brave enough to go down that switch or path too much because you know i felt that it was about the backing of the science which is something i've called universal connection so it's either the understanding that we're connected to each other in ways that we either didn't understand before or have chosen not to really acknowledge and also that there's you know there's some greater force that we're also connected to so whether you call it a universal consciousness um carl jung the psychologist talked about the collective unconscious and that's certainly um showing up now in the phenomenon of vivid dreaming have you been experiencing vivid dreams you know what i think i might have done on a day or two but not really um i think my wife has i think my kids certainly have and i know many people out there have been and you did a a really fascinating instagram post on this didn't you about vivid dreaming yeah it's because i had a vivid dream and it was it was a strange story i basically so what's happening is that because we're you know we're in uncertainty there's usually an anxiety element to these dreams and that makes people think that it's bad but actually it's very healthy emotional processing that our brains are doing um so you know i thought i was absolutely fine until i had this anxiety dream and i was like okay you know obviously there's some background anxiety and that's that's that's normal that's fine so it's basically in a scary place and um you know couldn't get out and suddenly one of my former coaching clients from years ago appeared in front of me and i was so relieved to see him that i you know ran forward and gave him a hug and then he took me by the hand and he rescued me from this place but as soon as we got outside i said to him but i hugged you and you held my hand and now i'm going to get covered and then i woke up thinking like what a strange dream so i came downstairs and i said to my husband i had this strange dream and this guy was in it and he you know he knows the guy so i mentioned him by name and then as i said we had breakfast and then he went to a study and i was working and i get a text message and it's from the guy that was in the dream the night before i mean no word of a lie i checked he hadn't texted me for three months and he was just checking in how are you and i went round to my husband's study and i said you are not going to believe who i just had a text message from and he said i can't imagine um and i said you know if i hadn't told you about the dream if i came to you now and said i got a text message from this guy and he was in my dream last night you'd have just written that off but the fact that i had told him and then it happened i know that's a total anecdote but it just made me look into this collective unconscious and vivid dreaming and it turns out that it's a phenomenon that occurred during both the world wars and the holocaust so you know again that's when all the whole world was involved in something that affected them doesn't matter who you are where you are you're being affected by this global situation um in a you know a way that's anxiety anxiety-inducing um and then um i looked into it a bit more i used to live and work in australia so you know i know quite a lot about the aboriginal dream time and you know that's a concept of the story of creativity and and our connectedness to everything and everyone and i started thinking oh there's you know there's definitely something here and then two completely different sets of journalists contacted me to ask um for you know some sort of neuroscience quotes on vivid the vivid dreaming phenomenon and and i got quite a lot of responses to that igtv people saying that it's a thing in african culture asian cultures um so it's fascinating yeah i mean i can't i can't explain it and i guess that's what spirituality means to me something that you feel to be true and important but you can't necessarily explain i think that's so lovely the way you put that um a couple of things just to pick up on the first one is i just want to share that i think one of the reasons i don't dream that much at the moment is i think it's to do with caffeine and i'll explain what i mean by that so i've you know i i'm pretty okay with my caffeine consumption at the moment but i've definitely had an up and down relationship with caffeine it's it's typically my crutch these days for the past years when when the pressure goes up when i've got deadlines i i tend to drink a bit more coffee then i know is good for me you know i know i thrive when i'm when i'm drinking less and i have gone through periods of time where i've completely quit um and i often find when i've done that after you get over the withdrawal symptoms sleep is better and i think i dream more i really do think i dream of what i'm not on caffeine so that's just something that i'm going to explore a little bit over the next few weeks and months you know i'm not you know one thing that has changed in me is that a couple of years ago if i said that to utara i'd probably i'd probably be beating myself up a bit about it oh wrong and how have you got back into that coffee habit again you know you shouldn't have done that but that's not the way i look at it now it's like oh okay you know i've chosen to do that to help me yeah a part of me certainly enjoys that coffee ritual in the morning um and i'm okay with it you know i really feel my relationship with it has changed and i think you know at some point in the next few weeks and months i'll probably knock it on its head again and experiment a little bit without it but i think that's one thing for me anyway um the other thing you mentioned there which really really struck me is this idea that when you wrote the book you probably backed out a bit you know you thought you know i'm a neuroscientist i'm a psychiatrist you know i can't be writing about this kind of stuff and i know that feeling i i still i know early on in my career um you know being on tv or uh being in the public limelight you know i'd be very cautious about what i said and how i said you know what are people gonna think but i think as i've got more secure in myself over the past years and more comfortable with who i am i'm less afraid anymore to talk about these things because i think they're important and i and i think most people if they really tap in like you know for some people you'll really experience it if you're out for a run or walk in nature right and you look at the trees and the the water and the birds yeah it is pretty wondrous to look at that it and it's hard to actually think wow we are living in an absolutely beautiful world how is this all being created you know what is going on here and and i i absolutely do find as i'm getting older uh and as i do more work on myself i think i'm becoming a lot more spiritual and i really do believe in this kind of force and an energy that connects all of us but even if we want to you know come out of the kind of intuition of what we're feeling even if we use our prefrontal cortex our rational brain to try and explain this which i know you were saying maybe spirituality are things that we we can't explain we know you know what we know that we are all connected because we're all going through this pandemic together um you know we're all connected in the sense that we it doesn't matter who you are you also may be exposed right you're because we are all connected how another country acts uh how we act impacts our the countries around us you know it's we can't all be reductionists and individual and live live in a way that's good for us that our income our house how we're doing and i think for me one of the most beautiful things about the pandemic and again i feel when i say that i have to immediately defend myself and say yeah you know and again but maybe that's an issue i've got in my head but i feel i need to minimize it and go hold on a minute you know i'm not at all um minimizing the negative impact on some people but i do think many of us are feeling that collective consciousness and the idea that hey you know what we are all connected we're connected to our family we're connected to our local communities maybe our local farmers um we it very much changes the narrative not only around health but i think around society as well yeah i think it's very interesting who we're connected to now so there's an exercise in the book called the people tree where which is it's based on the idea of social contagion so that you know you're sort of the sum of the people that you spend the most time with kind of idea so i sort of say draw you know a tree with five branches put the names of the five people that you spend most time with or influence you the most and then write down five words about each of those people and then look at the 25 words and see like how much of that is reflected in you but i what i think is a really interesting twist on that now is now that you know you may be isolating with you know certain people but who are you keeping in touch with now that you don't you didn't actually used to see that much when you lived your normal life um who are you not speaking to that you actually used to spend a lot of time with i think you know there are some really interesting reflections here and i mean for me i you know i was trying to go on a sabbatical that wasn't really working um so when lockdown started i had actually two or three weeks where i sort of finally got that sabbatical and then you know the need for mental health work became so critical that i i felt you know that i had to to respond to that because you know i can be helpful through through what i you know say and do um so that feels good but when we were on holiday in january i read the untethered soul and basically at the end of that they say if you found out that you had a week to live or a year to live what would you do and i had the answer in my my answer in my head and i said to my husband what would you do and he said i'd immediately stop working or going to meetings and i just spend all my time with you well hello that's what's happening now um i mean you know we are both working from home but we work for ourselves so it's pretty flexible um and it's just yeah it's really interesting to think that the things that are actually important to us the people that are actually important to us we don't attend to those things because we're on this rat race of work and travel and um so so i do you know i agree with you that there is a beauty to be found in this confinement and restriction um and you know i think you know what's what's very inspiring at the moment is quotes from the likes of victor frankl and nelson mandela about you know confinement and i know you did that amazing podcast that got broadcast to all the prisons um you know perhaps we're connected to prisoners in a way that we never were before because we finally understand what confinement really is there's got to be something good about that yeah absolutely i mean as you were discussing it was really powerful that that idea that you know if we're asked what we would do we have a week to live it's often it'll be spend time with our loved ones but for many of us that's exactly what we've got but i will add to that we've got it but maybe we're not prioritizing it we don't feel we're able to so although we are with them we're distracted we think oh man i i really i need to be working i should be doing this so we're not actually being intentional like when i'm spending time with my children let's say i'm not working that's i'm not you know whether it's seeing patients or writing or doing a podcast or whatever it is i might be doing not to think of that as oh man i could be doing this you know like oh man i'm not getting that done but you know i need to spend time with the kids so i'm like hold on a minute that is valuable time that's not time where you're not working that is the goal like oh wow i'm spending time with my kids now brilliant rather than i'm spending time with them but in the background works going on i know it's a subtle thing but it's really made a difference because then you don't feel you're wasting time i don't want to at all suggest that i feel time spent with my kids is wasting time i don't but sometimes there's thing oh i've got to get back to my works and i've got to get back to my work scene now then you're not fully present with what's actually going on and for me i've got to say that's but that's been i don't think i'm overrating it to say that's been life-changing yeah no i i get what you mean it's interesting a funny little thing happened yesterday that really made me think about you know that intention and what's going what's running in the background um about you know other things that you have to do is that you know i think it's sort of nine o'clock so you know 9 p.m almost at the end of the day my husband said i love you so i said i love you and he said no you don't and i said well he went you haven't said it to me today and i don't even know if we do say it to each other every day but i sort of thought oh i wasn't even aware of that but then i realized it was important to him and that therefore that's really really important and this morning you know normally i just wake up when i wake up but because i knew i was meeting you i sort of asked him to bring me a cup of tea at a certain time in bed and he came up to the room and the first thing i said was i love you because i thought you know i don't want to feel like i've neglected something that's important to the most important person in the world to me and it's such a tiny thing but it doesn't take any effort for me to remember to say it but it's important and you know it's important in this strange time where who knows what emotions he was going through on that day you know like going back to the change curve maybe he was having a you know a depression day and i didn't really notice and so i think you know examining your important relationships examining are you really living the things that you say are important now is the time to do it 100 it's it's so interesting um you know again awareness is coming up it's that awareness of your own feelings awareness of your partner's feelings awareness of your children's feelings whoever it is and again it comes back to what we're saying at the beginning if you don't have a bit of time to yourself to journal or just to think often we're not tapping into how we're feeling and therefore it's very hard for us to tap into how someone else is feeling so because of these computers and emails right and our phones and the fact that we can now be contacted each day on whatsapp and dm on instagram and dm on twitter and facebook and text message and a phone call and whatever else right it could be so overwhelming and you know you mentioned that chat with john mcavoy i had recently the former prisoner who's now a really good friend of mine and yes so so proud that national prison radio broadcast that to 80 000 prison cells at the start of this week so 80 000 prisoners listening to that conversation which is just incredible yeah but the big thing that was routine right and schedule like how these guys you know how john got through solitary confinement but just to be clear for one whole year he did not leave his prison cell for a year right and that was partly him as well because he refused him he was almost having an accident rebellion against the system but i said how did you code because routine routine i needed a schedule i'd get up i'd do a workout every day i said john did you ever feel a bit demotivated did you ever feel oh you know what i'm not gonna do it today he said yeah sure i did but i always did it because i remember how i felt afterwards and that's what kept him sane and you know trying to bring it full circle again those micro habits if all you do when you wake up is for five minutes lie on your yoga mat or for five minutes do some breathing or five minutes do some journaling that is a routine that is you showing yourself on a daily basis that's what mandela used to do to get him through you know he jogged for 45 minutes on the spot in his prison cell right he didn't use the excuse of out of the right running shoes i don't have a treadmill i can't go outside again i say that with compassion i don't say that i'm not at all talking down to people i'm saying look there's a lot that we can do no matter how challenging our circumstances are yeah i mean even if it's um something like using meal times to create some structure in your day so um like you i think i you know i normally used to practice time restricted eating so i wouldn't eat before 12 and i'd finish eating by 8 pm what i found in this lockdown is that if i don't have that structure of the three meals a day and are sitting down together to have those meals that's disruptive for me mentally and emotionally so you know we started having the three meals a day and then at one point i said well i think my husband said actually why don't we have like a later brunch in an earlier supper and just do two meals that was at the time that it was very difficult to get you know grocery shopping and stuff and we did that for one day and i said i can't do this i need that structure of the three meals and so i'm very curious to see what you know each of us will learn about ourselves from this process because one thing i learned earlier which i'm seeing now is that when i'm under stress i become more ocd than i am normally so you know everything has to be neat and tidy um and now that we're doing the housework it's i said to my husband i've discovered that you're not as neat and tidy as i thought you were and he just said darling no one's as neat and tidy as you and it just really made me realize i'm probably being really ocd at the moment because when there's something outside that i can't control i like to kind of like line everything up and have everything really neat and perfect um but i was aware of that from before so i thought okay that's happening fine um but i'm very very curious to see what will i look back on what will we each look back on from this period of time and say that you know it surfaced and it was a new thing that we learned about ourselves and i would sort of follow on from that and say for me one of the other roles of journaling right now is to document that so it may not be that you're journaling to get your anxieties and worries and your subconscious thoughts out onto the paper although of course that can be very valuable it may also be that you're trying to journal each day oh man i've got i've learned how much i love having three meal times each day with my family or i love the fact that i don't have to commute at the moment so actually i can go for a 30 minute walk every morning before i start my day you know i saw someone tweeted me the other day to say um he just can't believe the difference it's made to his life and his productivity at work even though he's working from home when he goes for a half hour walk each morning i said i never have time because i'm normally rushing around i need to get the train and commuting and he's thinking well how can i bring that into my life when this is all over you know and i think that's a very valuable question for us all to try and ask what would we ideally like to bring into our lives when mr said it doesn't mean we're going to be able to you know i get it it may not it may be easier for some than others and although we talked about vision boards last time tara i i think people really like that idea and i i wonder if we could just sort of because because i feel at the moment if someone's doing that and thinking oh i like this i like that could they potentially use a vision board here to you know put their attention there and maybe increase the chances of that happening at some point in the future that's actually such a good idea because in a way i was thinking you know the vision board that i created in january for 2020 there are simply some things on it that can't happen now um you know some of them can happen remotely so you know um i think i did say to you last time that doing a podcast with you was on my vision board last year and you know getting to do one with you again is is um just so wonderful and you know doing more podcasts was on my vision board because you know changed it um so i've sort of been saying to people don't put too much pressure on yourself to you know feel that you need to achieve the visions that you had at the start of the year or you know it may be difficult to create a vision board now but i think you've just hit the nail on the head the vision board could be how i want my life to be different given what i've learned during lockdown so i've actually been collecting images um that i like but they're all very colorful very exotic and i think it's sort of although i will never travel for work as much as i did ever again that's a promise i've made to myself and i've said it in public now you know i sort of i feel very very lucky that i've traveled as much as i have for pleasure there are a few places i'd still like to go but i think you know my heart or my spirit or whatever is like longing for these far away places and these different foods and people that i might you know not get to experience again as much as i have in the past um but i love this idea of using the because you know i call it an action board because it has to be backed up by action of creating an image of the life that you would you know the balance life that you would want when things return to you know go go to however they're going to be and they're not like they are now because one of the things i worried about early on in lockdown is that it would be so easy to just get sucked back into being in that rat race commuting traveling not spending you know quality time with your loved ones or not doing their walking in nature so i think a vision board is you know that's i'm going to do it after today and also i have to say to you that you said you were going to do a vision board after the last podcast and i haven't seen a picture of it that's a good point i i did actually start it but i don't think i finished it so i i will tell you what what this morning what i was thinking about chatting to you and i have been thinking and again it's that sort of accountability by because i knew i'd be talking to you i was thinking okay i'm gonna if you really do want to change certain aspects of your life afterwards and i'm always thinking at the moment how can i combine what i do with my children and my wife because then we're doing something together so then it's not either spend time with them or work or do personal growth but you know it's kind of like well let's do something together and then i sort of felt well maybe you know at the weekend or they've got their half term coming up shortly maybe the four of us together should try and create a vision board and you know they can do whatever they want whatever their focus is i would never want to put that onto them but mine might be what kind of life do i want to live post lockdown because i like you travel a lot now i think i was very mindful of when i was back spending quality time undistracted time with my family but yeah i i've realized that maybe i was traveling more than i ideally wanted so for people tara because we have a lot more listeners now than we did when you first came on the show which is fantastic like someone might be listening going vision board i'm skeptical right number one and then you might also be thinking well how do i actually do that so although we did cover some of that last time i always think a little refresher on why a vision or an action board why it can be helpful and how do you actually do it yeah so um the the science behind why it's helpful is that we're bombarded with so much information all the time so you know everything we read everything we see every person we interact with and even our own emotions and memories and so um there are there's a natural process in the brain to selectively filter um what's important to our survival and and selectively put attention on to what's important for us to thrive and then there's also another system in the brain called value tagging which puts those things in order of importance and there's a there's a logical element to that you know things i need to do today to to live and work and then there's an emotional element to that which is you know spending time with your family and having you know feeling comfortable with who you are and you know all that sort of thing that you've already mentioned and so if you create imagery that represents the things like how you want your life to be post lockdown then you're more likely to notice and grasp opportunities to make that a reality so that's all it is it's not you know it's not as woo-woo as some people you know the skeptics might think it is it's literally priming your brain to remember what's important um and so ideally it's a collage made by hand although you know i've been getting a lot of dms from people saying well i'm not getting magazines so how do i do it and you can do it on pinterest there's an app called calculus which is like a cork board um you know there are ways on google of just generating images of things what exactly okay so let's just break it down even further so what you've got a collage okay so you're you've got a piece of paper or some card and what exactly are you wanting or suggesting that people put on it is it just images is it words how many do you need you know i guess i'm asking semi for myself as well because i've forgotten from last time and i am going to do it this time and i am going to text it to you um so yeah yeah so i i suggest that you don't use words or numbers so it's it's visual imagery because that tracks to your subconscious more strongly um also it's ideally that it's metaphorical representations of what you want so you know so a sort of for travel it could be you know just an image of a very exotic place that you like the look of for you it sounds like you know that very central on the board would be something to do with the four of you um as you know as i i said last time if you want a life that's crammed full then you know you should have as many images as you can on that piece of card if you want some space in your life then the images could be more separate with space between them it's important which images are touching each other so where you've said let's do stuff together you may find a way to combine work with you know with either with your wife or even with your children doing something with you then you'd want those sections of the board to be near each other um so yeah i mean there's a whole chapter in the book on exactly how to do it where to place it how it works um but it is you know it's like those collages or scrapbooks that we used to make as children or you know or what people call mood boards which is images that you're attracted to images that represent something that you want um i i'm honestly going to redo mine based on what you said which is which is about how i'd like my life to look after lockdown because i did have this feeling i feel better about it now but i did have this feeling that i don't 100 trust myself not to just go back to how things were before and i know that i don't want that but i just also realize that it can be very easy for that to happen i mean what sort of came into my mind was um when i'd been traveling in nepal and you know just trekking for days and days and like you know sort of eating very simple food and you know being very immersed in that buddhist and hindu culture and i remember i came back and i went into a shop and it was all about you know just indulge yourself by all these things and i was quite horrified by it but what i noticed was that two weeks later that was completely normal to me so you know we adapt quickly um but i just think that having agency over that adaptation is really important yeah i think that's a great point it reminds me of uh chatted to a really good man jeremy recently about what's that thing's gonna be like afterwards um you know we're gonna remember all this and he says and he he he loves reading history books and he said mate listen when all the history books i read seems to suggest that after things like pandemics or wars people want to forget as as quickly as possible and get back to normal and obviously for me i i knowingly don't really know i don't really have that experience you know i i didn't live through the wars i haven't been around during the time of a pandemic so it feels so real at the moment if i find it hard to believe that we'll forget this but if we look at history to sort of learn some lessons it looks as though we very much might do and that's why i think writing down your thoughts at the moment maybe if you're so inclined you know making an action board some way of reminding you of some of these key lessons that you learned so what you want to keep in your life afterwards i think it's really important yeah i think it's also important to say though that yeah i do believe that we've forgotten a lot of the lessons that people must have learned during the wars in the aftermath of that but if you think about the way that the role of women changed during the war so you know the men went off to to war and women took up jobs that traditionally weren't seen as jobs that women could do like factory jobs or farming jobs and so you know that changed forever so you know there are some some things that have fundamentally changed and never gone back to how they were before but you know you you talk about awareness and i talk about intention those two words are key here because if we don't set the intention and maintain our awareness we won't be choosing what changes fundamentally forever i i think that really is key and again some people may go you know what i liked my life before i want to go back to that and i don't think any one of us are saying don't do that we're simply saying be intentional with your choices understand that they are choices i i certainly hope for most people their choices i i do appreciate that some people have to do things that they don't want to do or certainly feel as though that's their only option but um i think that's a really great lesson um sorry i want to sort of finish off by something we we hinted at a little bit before and i think it's a topic that's worth exploring and i've got to be honest i wasn't that aware of it until i had a bit of a team meeting on monday with various members of my team people who helped me with the podcast and various things and you know we we we were just doing this checking seeing how everyone's feeling which is how we always start off and there was a bit of anxiety now that anxiety was around you can remember sunday night as we're recording this conversation on you know five days ago sunday night boris johnson made his speech in the uk about how we may start to ease lockdown measures and a lot of my team and a lot of people i suppose have a bit of anxiety they're like oh i've sort of got used to this new normal the thought of going back to life at 90 miles an hour it's actually causing a lot of anxiety and fear and you know since since my awareness got tuned into that because of what they said it was really interesting that it's not quite related but i've as i said i've been psyching a lot with the kids and my daughter's 87 but i've been taking her on the road since be like that's hardly anyone on the road so i'm trying to teach her and my son's you know to the same degree about road safety and how you cycle on the roads and this week it has been noticeable how much busier the roads are even though not that much has changed mentally something has changed in society in terms of yes what we feel you know that there is this idea this this widespread belief now that lockdown sort of now we're on lockdown light um compared to what it was anyway and i was scared yesterday i was like oh man i used to take them on these roads but cars are going back going by fast um people are looking at their phones whilst they're driving and i also thought oh no we're getting back to normal things are starting to seep back so i know a lot of people listening to this will be feeling that i wonder if you've got any advice for people who are feeling anxious about society returning back to normal and how they can cope with that yeah it's a really good question and i was asked a different version of that question maybe a month ago which when it didn't look like it was easing you know people like how long are we going to have to stay like this and i think that it's the perspective that you apply to it that can be really really helpful here so if you were thinking is lockdown going to end next week is it going to be three weeks when are the children going to go back to school is it going to be half term is it going to be you know summer holidays that creates a lot of anxiety if you set the goal post a bit further so if you tell yourself i'm not going to think about this for a month or i think things will only go back to normal in september or october whatever you know whatever you think it is but if you move the goal post further then you don't have to you're not driven to feel as anxious because it's something that's further away and what that produces is if you keep thinking can i go back to normal next week and then it doesn't happen you know boris says that's not going to happen you'll get disappointed if you put the goal post further away then it's likely that you're more likely that you'll be pleasantly surprised so it is about giving yourself perspective and i have a little exercise that i do when when i feel that i'm either getting into a rut or i'm starting to think about something very short term and it can build up some anxiety is that i either look at the palm of my hand or i go outside and i look at a leaf or a flower very close up for a minute which i time on my phone and i look at every detail of it and you know immerse myself in that for a minute and then i will time the minute again and i'll look at a really big tree or a building far away in the distance and i find it really helps my brain go from that short-term anxious mode into the sort of bigger picture you know perspective about this whole situation um so that's that's my little tip for that i like that a lot i love that i've not heard that that sort of looking at something in there and very close to you like a leaf and then suddenly going to that big wide peripheral view uh that's a really nice there's a nice analogy there isn't there it's it's really yeah i'm definitely going to try that for sure um what you said there actually reminds me of a chat i had just a few days ago a really good friend of mine runs a fitness business uh i won't say too much but she wants a fitness business and um you know he's been going through some hard times and obviously he's not been able to run classes over the past however many weeks it has been now and was actually saying to me that actually you know what i know i've needed a break for ages and actually this is in some way that's been really good because it's given me that break um but i keep sort of deferring i keep saying to people who want me to do online classes i just i just don't want to at the moment i want to just rest and i said are you okay financially said yeah i'm fine financially i've you know my partner is able to work through this and so we're okay and she said i'm gonna i'm gonna defer the decision in a couple of weeks i'll decide or or maybe in three weeks i'll decide again and i said hey you know what if you really know you need this time and financially you're okay what would the world look like if you said you know what i'm not going to restart till september and then you're not constantly deferring that decision for two weeks so that stress is building oh then it goes off stress is building then it eases off up again why not you know really take that opportunity to go if you can to go yeah you know what i'm not working for the next two months i'm going to recuperate i'm going to enjoy my time waters and nature and again to really bring it back to something that happened in my life yesterday um so my wife she produces this podcast and she works very very hard on it and yesterday you know she was homeschooling the kids a lot she was you know she was super busy and she was getting you know mid-afternoon it was like sort of frustration in some ways that she hadn't managed to get her work done and it was building up there and i said hey babe listen you know it maybe just embrace the fact that actually you're not working today and actually you know that it's a day off she goes yeah i should have done that but all morning and all that i've been getting frustrated so yeah it's sometimes it's about and i know it's easy with hindsight but it's sometimes better to go hey you know what i'm having today off and embrace the facts and don't constantly think about your emails or your workload it's you know i'm hoping those two stories i shared there may be of some value to somebody listening to this right now yeah because actually you know often we say oh well the benefit of hindsight it's too late kind of thing but actually at the moment it's not too late because you can have that day off you can defer something i mean i think your friend in the fitness industry if they say okay i'm not going to work till september if they change their mind in the meantime great fine but if they don't they've given themselves permission um and you know like we've said repeatedly throughout this you know if in whichever way you're privileged to make certain choices now's the time to make them and even if it's you do it a day too late because it's hindsight but you can still do it you know i have one of my favorite phrases is the best time to plant an oak tree was 200 years ago the second best time is today says it already doesn't it tara oh man i i really love talking to you um i i i really do i think this could go on for a long time i would much rather we did it face to face and we will do another one face face-to-face for sure and i will do that vision board right that's a proper promise this time okay um but as you remember from last time i always like to finish with actionable tips for people now i will say to people listening and watching this that taurus but the source is fantastic it's full of science it's very easy to read a lot of practical tips in it so i really would encourage people to take a look at the source so they can learn more about your philosophy and your your practical tips but for the purpose of this podcast for people listening who like what they've heard today and feel inspired to make change i always like to leave people with a few practical tips that they can think about applying into their own life immediately so tara i wonder if you could share some of your top tips okay so i'm going to give um two tips that aren't in the book that is um about reviewing the past and one is um about being in the present and you know joining yourself for the future so one of the things i speak about is entrenched neural pathways which are ways of being that are habits and behavior patterns for us because they've been there for so long this is a really interesting time to explore some of those so i'm talking about things like from childhood things like the role that you play in the family the beliefs that are you know held within your family the value system and a really interesting one at the moment is boundaries because you know some people um have quite strong boundaries anyway they may be introverted they may you know sort of not really have that many people coming to their house some people maybe the kind of family that always had people coming over sleeping on the sofa so to really sit down and think you know what role did i play as a child that can be playing out now what do i strongly believe or uphold as a value that can either be helping or hindering me now in this lockdown situation and and to really understand your boundaries because that's going to help with the vision boards that people make for how they want life to be after locked down you will need to uphold your boundaries around some things because there's going to be a lot of external pressure and changes so i think those are really important things to reflect on and then i do want to offer an exercise for the people that you mentioned the you know the frontline workers the people who are sort of run ragged with stress and but it's for everyone but it's i did want to end with you know really like offering something to those people and it's it's what i call body gratitude so you can do it in the shower or you can do it if you're moisturizing your skin and you go from head to toe and you thank each different part of your body for what it's doing so your lungs for breathing for you your skin for protecting you for maintaining your physical boundary um you know a lot of women are struggling with what to do with their hair at the moment but thank your hair for being in the condition that it's in um so you just basically go through your whole body outside and inside and you literally thank each part you know maybe that hamstring that's playing up you thank it for giving you information about the condition of the muscles and joints and tendons in your body um and it's just it's a really really feel good exercise um because you know when we're stressed we you know there's the systemic dryness it's a really good idea to get the benefits of moisturizing and the gratitude um all in one so i really hope people try it because you feel like a million dollars afterwards you know even if your hair's not doing what you'd like it to at the moment and you can't do much about it it makes you feel amazing so i think that's how i'd like people to feel at the end of this i really like that tara how and and just for people who think they may not have time for that it sounds like that's an exercise that doesn't need to take very long at all not at all and you know you can do it in the shower um and i mean it can take one to two minutes but also you can build it up over time so you can start it today and then add to it tomorrow and um just do it every so often fantastic well tara thank you so much for making time today um you know i hope you make it an amazing action board i hope it actually brings into your life what you want it to at the end of this and i look forward to the next time we have a conversation on the podcast me too thank you so much for having me on the podcast again press subscribe to get more inspiration and ideas on how to feel better so you can get more out of life and if you have a moment why not check out this conversation that i've picked out as a perfect follow-up remember lifestyle change is always worth it because when you feel better you live more

Channel: Dr Rangan Chatterjee

Views: 11,992

Rating: 4.9354839 out of 5

Keywords: The Four Pillar Plan, NHS, GP, Four Pillar Plan, lifestyle medicine, the stress solution, feel better in 5, feel better live more, fblm, health, paleo, wellness, drchatterjee, rangan chatterjee, how to make disease disappear, low carb, vegan, keto, podcast, apple podcast, obesity, type 2 diabetes, joe rogan, sleep, jay shetty, health advice, richroll, therichrollpodcast, stress, anxiety, personal development, lockdown, kindness, compassion, behavioural psychology, brain health, dreaming, future

Id: vCqnodAfQCk

Length: 74min 29sec (4469 seconds)

Published: Tue Jun 09 2020