"How Inspired Was Ellen White" Dennis Preibe

Father in heaven please guide our minds this afternoon that we may truly understand your will for us and how we can live lives that will be pleasing in your sight I ask in Jesus name Amen a General Conference president said a while back this question lies at the root of most denominational tensions what question in his opinion lies at the root of most of our denominational tensions his question is what shall we do with Ellen White what shall we do with Ellen White and that is I believe one of the biggest issues today in the seventh-day Adventist Church let me give you a few statistics that I wish I didn't have to give you but they are real this is in the Adventist review in North America we have about a 17 percent reader population for the spirit of prophecy books did you hear I said North America not Africa not South America not Hungary not Romania in North America we have a 17 percent reader population for the spirit of prophecy books meaning people who are reading the spirit of prophecy books with all of the books that we have and most of those readers are over the age of 65 that's a statistic that ought to be a little bit alarming 17% read them and most of them are over 65 it's not that we don't have access to ellen white books we're just choosing not to read them if new members are not oriented as to why we're seventh-day adventists and what motivates us as a church if they don't understand the great controversy theme if they don't see the emphasis that God has given us through the writings of Ellen White then going to have a lot of people who don't totally understand why they're seventh-day adventists and who may not be fully prepared to stand true to God in these last days if there are any books that have the possibility of preparing us to stand through what is coming ahead I'm gonna suggest it's the spirit of prophecy books in fact I'm gonna say this this is the most important subject I talk about in all of the topics that I speak about and I have about 80 presentations that I give on different topics this is the most important presentation that I give because I believe that a clear understanding of this subject will make it possible for you to survive what's coming upon this earth and I believe to the contrary those who do not have a clear understanding of this subject will not survive what's coming on this earth that's how important I believe this subject is I believe this is a make-or-break subject for survival in the end times and that's why I present it and why we're going to talk about it this afternoon alright now let's talk about something else for just a minute here if you were to visit any seminary type library where ministers are being trained you would find one whole shelf of books not a book or two but a whole shelf of books on one subject the search for the historical Jesus that sounds like a great subject the search for the historical Jesus why so many books on that subject all right here's how it works our scholarly friends and we're talking about across all denominations our scholarly friends are telling us that when you take this Bible and you read Matthew Mark Luke and John the stories of Jesus Christ what he taught what he the miracles he did that some of those stories and miracles and teachings were not written actually by Matthew Mark Luke or John but they were added later in the second and third centuries by Christians who wanted to flesh out the story of Jesus a little bit they'd heard a legend about Jesus of what he said what he did they put it in the scriptures and so that's part of Matthew Mark Luke and John and these scholars they're sometimes life work is to help you and me understand which parts of the Gospels are authentic stories of Jesus and which parts are legendary and untrue stories about Jesus that's their job as they see it so they're going to take your Bible Matthew Mark Luke and John and they are going to suggest to you which parts you can trust and believe in and which parts can be set aside as irrelevant legendary and therefore untrue about Jesus Christ to help you understand the search for the historical the real Jesus not the Christ that was added in by later writers and then claimed to be from Matthew Mark Luke or John now to give you an example of how this works a group called the Jesus Seminar meets a couple of times a year today right now and they meet together and present papers scholarly papers on exactly what we're talking about here which parts are authentic which parts are not authentic and they tried a little experiment one time they said let's just see for the fun of it if we can get unanimous agreement not 50% not 70% but unanimous agreement on which parts of the Gospels are authentic and which are not just for fun let's try it so they took the Gospel of Mark which is the shortest one and they said now that I don't know how they did this chapter by chapter or whatever but they they went down the line and said now how many of you agree that this is an authentic story of Jesus how many of you agree that this is an authentic miracle of Jesus a teaching of Jesus they got unanimous agreement on one sentence in the book of Mark as being authentic unanimous agreement they tried the book of John they got zero sentences in the book of John that they could all agree on so you see what is really happening here is these scholars with the best intentions in the world are telling you which parts of this Bible you can accept as real and which parts of the Bible you can set aside is irrelevant and they're not very clear on how many what their unanimous agreement is on the Gospels of John Mark etc as to which are authentic and which are not and I'm gonna just ask you a simple question do you think that's helped us is that helpful to understand the Bible you see the problem is once you go down that road who becomes the final authority me my mind my scholarly approach my approach how I how I make decisions you see you're gonna have to make a decision the key word that we're gonna be focusing on this afternoon is the word authority does this book have final authority over your life that's the question in other words very simply when you're addressing a subject what is the proper thing that I should do regarding and you're debating it and you're trying to figure out what God's will is if God says specifically in this book what his will is do you end your discussion right there or do you say well but you know there are other factors there times have changed things are different now than they were when Moses was writing or John or someone else things aren't quite the same you don't have to worry about that any more if you do that who's the final authority your mind so you have one or other of the final authority this book will be your final authority or your mind will be your final authority one or the other you can't have both just to say as a simplest of all possible examples when God says remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy and you're convicted that's what God is telling you can you then say but I like Tuesday better but I think Sunday might work too everybody else goes to church on Sunday well why not is the Bible your final authority does discussion cease when God says clearly in this book that's the issue or does the discussion continue after God has clearly spoken then you become the final authority always the word authority in this case and by the way when you're discussing parts of the Bible that are not regarded as authoritative what six chapters of the Bible have been almost universally thrown out by most Christians what six chapters of the Bible how about the first ones the first six chapters of the Bible how many Christians really truly believe in a seven-day creation a short time ago most Christians believe in theistic evolution because science seems to say that's the only way it could happen it couldn't have happened approximately 6,000 years ago it couldn't have happened on six literal days final authority once again where does it reside within the mind or in God's Word now I'm going to share something with you that I think is interesting this is from a congregational pastor in Kansas and here's his letter that came in to ministry magazine God lies beyond our understanding and calls us to trust his Spirit to lead us beyond the place that we can see clearly whether I accept Daniel as the product of inspiration in the seventh century or inspiration in the second century doesn't really matter now the background to that is many scholars today don't believe that Daniel actually wrote the Book of Daniel but that someone in the second century used the name of Daniel and wrote the Book of Daniel so he's responding to that whether I accept Daniel as a 7th century writer or a second century writer doesn't really make any difference so I asked the question doesn't make a difference whether Daniel wrote in the 7th century or the second cent let's pretend he wrote in the 2nd century what does that mean for all of his marvelous prophecies its history not prophecy the great nations have come out Babylon has fallen medo-persia has taken its place Greece has come up Rome is now the major power and he's pretending to write prophecy when it's really history so does it make a difference whether I accept Esther the book of Esther is not really accepted by most Christian scholars as authentic by the way whether I accept Esther as history legend or folktale doesn't really matter well once again does it or doesn't it and then this amazing statement this is his conclusion the Bible is the sole authority for faith and practice not because it is factual or even because it is true but because God has spoken through it to us and still does so by his Spirit I would be pleased if you would interpret that statement for me the Bible is the sole authority for faith and practice not because it is factual or even because it is true but God has spoken to us well what has he spoken I have no idea if all of these things are fables and stories and made-up things what has he spoken and how is it my authority how if it's all made up so that that one boggled my mind as i came across that letter and i don't know even know how to go any farther with that all right as i say that was our little side trip and you'll see how it pertains to our subject the bible is it your authority God has written it as we have it in this collection of 66 books or can we pick and choose what we would like which seems to make more sense to us now would you take the outline that you've been given the rest of our time will be in on the pages of this outline and I'm not going to give references because you have them all printed right here in front of you so you know what the ref where the references are I'll just let you know where we are at each point and by the way one little thing about evaluating Ellen White when you evaluate me or your pastor here is what you can say well I like 50% of what Priebe said but the rest of it is garbage and I'm throwing in the trash can yeah you can say that because I have no authority over your salvation I have zero authority I can suggest things to you I can share what I've learned but I am NOT your judge and you will not be saved or lost because of what I say you're gonna have to decide for yourself and so a pastor or a teacher does not have any authority from God all a pastor or a teacher does is say I have read this book and this is how I understand it can you say exactly the same thing I have read this book and this is how I understand it all pastors and teachers have done is taken a little more class work that's all we have no more ability to understand the Word of God than you do we have no more no more closeness to God and understanding his will than you do you have this book you have to evaluate this any speaker on the basis of this book and you can say 50/50 I have books in my library that are like that I like part of it the rest is garbage and I won't spend any time on but the pipe I bought the book because it had some good stuff that I could use okay can you evaluate a prophet like that can you evaluate Jeremiah like that I like 50% of what Maya said the rest is out isn't that what they tried to do by the way with Jeremiah they kind of liked what he had say about relationship to God but when he said God's will is for you to surrender to the Babylonians right now and don't fight any longer don't try to maintain your independence you just surrender and you recognize that that's God's punishment on you for your apostasy Wow they didn't like that at all and you know the whole story I mean he was put in a pit and would have died there if somebody hadn't taken pity on him that was treason so they were picking and choosing which parts of Jeremiah they liked and would abide by and which parts they would throw out why is that illegitimate for a prophet very simple because a prophet doesn't interpret the Word of God like I do a prophet gives the Word of God and what if a prophet is giving 70 percent of God's Word and 30 percent of his own word how can you tell the difference how can you sort it out how do you know which is which will we follow our scholarly friends and say well we'll sort it out by your guidelines we'll take your guidelines as to which we accept in which we reject no a prophet here's the what as I say a prophets mission the prophets a prophet standard is different than a pastor or a teacher either a prophet is speaking a hundred percent for God or a zero for God because God won't have half and half a prophet carries Authority I don't carry Authority I share but I have no authority a prophet is authoritative because it isn't the prophets Word it is God's Word unless we believe it's half and half and then it's back to my what my authority again so that's the issue at stake when we evaluate Ellen White we don't have the luxury of treating her like you treat you and your pastor or me all right now with that in mind let's see what Ellen White says all of these statements are from Ellen White we will evaluate her own writings go with me to the third paragraph on the first page called porter ministry page 125 sister white she's talking about herself in the third person is not the originator of these books they contained the instruction that during her life where God has been giving her they contained the precious comforting light that God has graciously given his servant to be given to the world okay that's what she says about her books great controversy desire of Ages etc the next one I do not write one article in the paper expressing merely my own ideas they are what God is open before me envision the precious rays of light shining from the throne these are articles in our papers review and Herald signs of the times youths instructor which don't have anymore and many other papers weak and trembling I arose at three o'clock in the morning to write to you God was speaking through clay you might say that this communication was only a letter yes it was a letter but prompted by the Spirit of God to bring before your mind things that had been shown me in these letters which I write in the testimonies I bear I am presenting to you that which the Lord has presented to me so there are three categories now books articles and personal letters and did you notice she says the same thing about each one of them she didn't come up with him this is mess a message from the Lord so her claim keep that in mind her claim is that she does not originate her writings they are not done like I write I write based on research and thinking and study she does not write based on research thinking and study she writes based on what the Lord revealed to her that she needed to say now she has to put the words that was put the thoughts in human words that is her job but she's not originating those words she says or those concepts she is only putting them into human words and form the next paragraph God is either teaching his church reproving their wrongs and strengthening their faith or he is not this work is of God or it is not God does nothing in partnership with Satan my work for the past 30 years bears the stamp of God or the stamp of the enemy there is no halfway work in the matter the testimonies are of the Spirit of God or of the devil and Friends that's the only way a prophet can be evaluated a prophet can never be half-and-half it's either going to be from God or Satan is going to be the originator or the human mind will originate one of those options and by the way that's why in the very early days of Ellen White's ministry some interesting things happened when she got a vision that didn't happen that way in later years of her ministry because by that time her work was established but in the early years of her ministry in a meeting just like this where we would he gathered together and maybe James white or one of the pioneers would be giving a message in the middle of that all of a sudden Ellen White's sitting on the platform were you laying on the on the on the floor and all of a sudden she would be unconscious as to what was going on and maybe five minutes would pass maybe 20 minutes maybe half an hour sometimes an hour or more and she would come back from that experience and share what the Lord had been revealing to her during the time that everyone else didn't know what was going on this happened quite a bit now the people back then were as skeptical as you and I would have been what is going on here is this something that the trick is being played is Satan involved here and people would actually do things which were not very polite but they were skeptical and they wanted to be sure and in the middle of this whole thing people would walk up to Ellen White when she was either sitting or lying on the floor and they would pinch her nose shut and hold their hand over her mouth so she couldn't breathe and there would be no way that she could possibly get a breath of air into her lungs and they became absolutely convinced that something supernatural was going on here this was no trick this was no magic parlor trick you've probably heard the story of the Bible right that big heavy Bible that she would hold in her hand outstretched and strong people have tried to hold it they can manage it for about five minutes she would stand their whole with for 30 minutes more at a time and here's the interesting part she would get this Bible and she would hold it up and she would say now the Lord envisioned the angel just told me what verses are important for us to understand today and while she was doing that she would be turning the pages up here to the verses that she said were the verses the Lord had revealed to her and again the skeptics out there like you and me they got ladders and they got ladders up to see what well Ellen White pointing to when she said this verse and that verse and the other verse and they found exact that she was pointing to exactly what she was talking about envision and she was quoting it without reading it and and it was all authentic things like that happened a lot back in those early years for one reason and one reason only because you see there are three options from God from Satan or a human trick and that ruled out the human trickery there was no possibility that there was some magic parlor trick being played it left only two options God our Satan the supernatural does not prove that God is doing it it proves that God or Satan is doing it and that's why I'm very very grateful that Ellen White is as honest as she was in this last sentence it's either from God or it's from Satan you decide that's what she's telling us it's not halfway it's one or the other from God or from the devil and that's what we have to decide okay the next paragraph is the most important one we will read this afternoon so read it very carefully with me many times in my experience I have been called upon to meet the attitude of a certain class who acknowledge that the testimonies were from God but took the position that this matter and that matter were sister White's opinion and judgment this suits those who do not love reproof and correction and who if their ideas are crossed have occasion to explain the difference between the human the divine if the preconceived opinions or particular ideas of some are crossed and being reproved by testimonies they have a burden at once to make plain their position to discriminate between the testimonies defining what is sister White's human judgement and what is the word of the Lord everything that sustains their cherished ideas is divine and the testimonies to correct their errors are human sister White's opinions and then lot the last sentence they make of none effect the council of God by their tradition okay when I was teaching at Pacific Union College one of my colleagues was named Desmond Ford some of you remember those days and Desmond Ford believed in the spirit of prophecy Desmond Ford was not a liberal he was an evangelical which means he took a certain view of how salvation works Desmond Ford could quote the spirit of prophecy far better than I've ever been able to quote it from memory he could quote the Bible from memory a brilliant brilliant man and as I say he believed in Ellen White as a prophet of God except for one little hitch he said that when Ellen White came to write the book great controversy and she was writing the chapter about Jesus moving from one part of the heavenly sanctuary ministry to the other part of the heavenly sanctuary ministry the most holy place in 1844 God never showed that to Ellen White that was not part of what God revealed her that came from the people around her who believed that and were trying to save face because of the millerite disappointment in 1844 and they pressured her to put that section in the book great controversy that's why we have it in the book in other words Desmond Ford was saying I believe in Ellen White I believe that she and it was she received visions from God but not all the time in some places she wrote her own ideas or other people's ideas down and pum them off as from God does that describe what we have just read in this paragraph making a difference between the human and the divine does that explain does that describe exactly what our scholarly friends have been doing with the four Gospels parts of the Gospels accepted parts of the Gospels you set aside what agrees with my viewpoints what doesn't agree with my viewpoints final authority my mind my mind and so this during that time following Desmond Ford there were groups that followed him and some of those groups began to go interesting directions some of them began to shed some of the standards of the church some of the you know the the health issues of the church get rid of those legalistic requirements the gospel is about grace and it's about love and one by one those groups began to kind of drop the Sabbath out of their reckoning as well a number of groups formed during those years after Desmond Ford and I'm talking about the years 1975 to 1985 in that particular period of time in some of those cases some individuals had major book-burning ceremonies in their backyards can you guess what books these legalistic writings of Ellen White and they burned the books so they could be free in the Lord free to do what they wanted to do meaning and so those were some difficult days another book came out during those years called the white lie by a former minister of the seventh-day Adventist Church Walter Ray he claimed that when Ellen White wrote things down she really didn't get them from the Lord she got them from other books and pretended they were visions from the Lord she lied to us the white lie that's not what this passage here is talking about this book at this passage we just read is not talking about book burnings it's not talking about throwing away the spirit of prophecy it's not talking about rejecting it's talking about and this is the key point I believe but I believe except I believe in Ellen White's writings to a certain degree but on certain issues it was her own opinion and I don't have to worry about it she's not my authority exactly in the same way that the people of Jeremiah's time would say he's not my authority he's talking treason there really is no difference it's just the difference in time period we've always had that problem with prophets haven't we we don't like our toes being stepped on now I thought I thought I could probably identify pretty quickly who I'd be talking to that would share these ideas but I found in the last 10 to 15 years a very interesting phenomenon as I go to churches like this and we've been doing this a while as I go to churches like this I talk basically to fairly solid conservative seventh-day Adventists who hold high standards who are trying to be faithful to God's Word who are not trying to throw off and do everything crazy Under the Sun I talked to good Adventists as I go around the country and I found a very very fascinating and disturbing thing some of the Adventists that I talked to are very frustrated about why Jesus hasn't come yet and what has to happen before Jesus can come and some new ideas have been coming into play about what is the magic key that will turn the turned the door open to the second coming of Christ what do we need to do and believe in that we haven't believed in up to this point and one group and I'll just share one I have several experiences that I could share but one group has come to the opinion that if you believe there are three beings in Godhead Father Son and Holy Spirit you are believing a Catholic doctrine called the Trinity and if you continue to believe that there are three beings known as Father Son and Holy Spirit you will receive the mark of the beast you cannot receive the seal of God because you are following a false Catholic teaching these are good seventh-day adventists who are teaching and believing this right now very faithful Adventists and I found one very fascinating thing aside from the fact that we can do a Bible study on the three beings father and Son and Holy Spirit and by the way there's one other aspect that when we're talking about the son for instance first of all the Holy Spirit doesn't exist the Holy Spirit is a force of power when we're talking about the son Jesus Christ they he had a beginning in time he was actually a literal son of God way back in prehistory he did not exist with the father from all eternity only the father is eternal Jesus derived his godness from his father and received it became the Son of God by actual generation they call it okay that's what they believe and I found a fascinating thing apart from doing a Bible study and we that's the important thing to do as a Bible study when I share with them some statements from Ellen White just from Ellen White like in Christ was life original unborrowed under iived or Christ was with the father from all eternity or there never was a time when Christ was not in close fellowship with the father statements like that and there are quite a lot of statements like that in the writings of Ellen White when I share statements like that I get an interesting response from some of my good faithful seventh-day Adventist friends well not everything that Ellen White wrote was really from God some of it was her own opinion or another one when Ellen White was writing in the early years you can trust her writings up till about 1884 and then some very interesting things began to happen people began to insert material into her writings that were actually published in her books as hers and she couldn't tell the difference she published the whole thing so the later books can't be trusted because they have been manipulated they have been changed they have been altered you can't go by our current versions today of great controversy because that has been so totally altered you have to go back to the 1884 edition as the only true version of the great controversy that's one response I get so I'm just saying that when something is presented that crosses that's the word that we just read here that crosses their ideas they have a burden that wants to explain the difference between the human and the divine and the reason I'm sharing this with you is I'm finding this among conservative Adventists just as much as quote-unquote liberal Adventists right now that Ellen White's writings have to be taken with a grain of salt you really can't trust everything she says she is not the final word she is a lesser category of prophet not like Jeremiah not like Paul not like Moses but one which can make mistakes can insert our own opinions can write things which are not true and please notice that last sentence one more time they make of none effect the counsel of God by their tradition have the scholars made the Bible of none effect you see the Bible yes they say I believe the Bible I believe it's the Word of God but not Genesis 1 to 6 I believe but they make of none effect because how do you know which part to trust which part is your authority it's all a matter of guessing and you don't know which way you're going and so in Ellen White if Ellen White is writing sometimes for the Lord and sometimes out of her own opinion then you don't know which way which to trust and which not to trust particularly and this is where it really becomes an issue when it comes to health standards health reform lifestyle and things like that in which we can say but that was just her own opinion that doesn't hold any weight with me I can't I don't need to follow that what authority do her writing seven by the way Ellen White did say in another statement which is not here she said the last deception of Satan the very last deception is to make of none effect the spirit of prophecy not to deny it not to burn it but I believe except that's the last deception she says of Satan all right let's go on do not by your criticisms take out all the force all the point and power from the testimonies do not feel that you can dissect them to suit your own ideas claiming that God has given you ability to discern what is light from heaven and what is the expression of mere human wisdom if the testimonies in the word testimonies here means all of her writings if the testimonies speak not according to the Word of God reject them Christ and Belial cannot be United she really laying it on the line with us don't play with my writings this what she's saying you accept them or you reject them isn't that what we do with Joseph Smith do you believe that some things that he wrote are good for us and we need to study a fair amount of it I don't because I reject his pre hit of the presupposition that he wrote under inspiration and therefore I will not spend any time with someone who claims to be inspired and in fact is not because I know that's not coming from the Lord if the testimony speak not according to the Word of God reject them all right now a prophet has a tough job I am so glad I'm not called to be a prophet a prophet has two jobs neither of which I want any part of first job a prophet has to say whatever God says no matter how many people get mad important people how would you like to have been Nathan when your assignment was to go talk to that King over there who has spent a year in adultery and murder and tell him what a rotten guy he is and remember there were no Supreme Court appeals during those time if a king didn't like what you said how would you like to have been Jeremiah how would you like to have been John the Baptist walking into the court of Herod and telling him what the Lord thought of that marriage of his and his head was handed to him on a platter he didn't escape so that's the first job of a prophet the second job of the Prophet we're gonna read it last paragraph on the first page in the testimony sent to Battle Creek I have given you the light God has given to me in no case in no case have I given my own judgment or opinion I have enough to write of what has been shown me without falling back on my own opinions second page let's go to the second paragraph on the second page I have no light on the subject as to just who would constitute the hundred forty four thousand please tell my brethren that I have nothing presented before me regarding the circumstances concerning which they write and I can set before them only that which has been presented to me another situation a gentleman came to her when she was retired out in Elms Haven in California clear across from Iowa or somewhere in the Midwest I'm not sure exactly where his question was very simple what does the Lord want me to do with the rest of my life look at the answer she gave this man I am not at liberty to write to our brethren concerning your future work I have received no instruction regarding the place where you should locate if the Lord gives me definite instructions concerning you I will give it you but I cannot take upon myself responsibilities that the Lord does not give me to bear wasn't that rude this man comes all the way across country not flying by any means probably on a train he comes to ask Ellen White what he should do with the rest of his life and that's what he gets from the Prophet couldn't she at least have told him well maybe this is what you ought to do I think you're capable you could try this couldn't she have told him that now your pastor could have told her that or I could have told her that but could a prophet tell her of that to tell this man that what would this man have taken that word from Ellen White to be God's Word he did not come all the way to California to learn what Ellen White wanted what she thought he came because he wanted Urim and the Thummim remember what those were you asked the Lord yes or no and you get an answer I'd love one of those today but he wanted a word from the Lord he did not want Ellen White's word and if Ellen White had said anything he would have taken it as a word from the Lord and since the Lord had not said anything to Ellen White this is what she has to tell him this is the only thing she says she can tell him I cannot take upon myself responsibilities the Lord does not give me to bear so the second job of a prophet when speaking in counsel to individuals or to churches the Prophet can say only what God has told the Prophet to say not one sentence more no opinions allowed no suggestions allowed only what God has said keep your mouth shut if the Lord has not spoken boy that's a tough thing for a prophet keep your mouth shut if the Lord has not spoken I have an interesting little thing here not in your outline but I thought you might be interested she said I find myself frequently placed where I dare give neither assent nor descent to propositions that are submitted to me for there is danger that any words I may speak shall be reported as something that the Lord has given me it is not always safe for me to express my own judgment for sometimes when someone wishes to carry out his own purpose he regarde any favorable word I may speak as special light from the Lord I shall be cautious in all my movements my prophet has to be careful say what God says no matter who you who you rub wrong shut up when the Lord has not spoken say nothing even if you have an opinion I'm glad I'm not a prophet alright let's go now down to page 2 section 2 danger of rejection it does not become anyone to work drop a word of doubt here and there that shall work like poison and other minds shaking their confidence and the messages which God has given which have aided in laying the foundation of this work and have attended it to the present day in reproofs warnings Corrections and encouragement to all of us stood in the way of the testimonies I would say meaning blocking the testimonies God has given a message to his people and his voice will be heard whether you hear or forbear your opposition has not injured me but you must give an account to the God of heaven who has sent these warnings and instructions to keep his people in the right way you will have to answer to him for your blindness for being a stumbling block in the way of sinners what she is saying there is I'm not your judge God is your judge and you will have to answer to him about your acceptance or rejection the next one the next one is the second most important paragraph we will read today I saw the state of some who stood on present truth that means believing present truth but disregarded the visions the way God had chosen to teach in some cases those who erred from Bible truth I saw that in striking against the visions they did not strike against the worm the feeble instrument that God spake through but against the Holy Ghost I saw it was a small thing to speak against the instrument but it was dangerous to slight the words of God right here let's look at this very carefully listen to what I'm going to say next I really do not care about Ellen White mmm did you get your attention didn't I I really do not care about Ellen White because if God's will had been done in the seventh-day Adventist Church as he wanted to do it the lame Ellen White would never be expressed this afternoon not even once it would not come up who was God's first choice I'm gonna test your Adventist history who was God's first choice as a prophetic voice to lead God's people through to the close of probation that's right William Foy a mixed-race pastor that was of another Church preaching in his church and all of a sudden you got visions and he began to share these visions we don't know too much about him unfortunately because he didn't keep on giving the visions for some reason that he never said and others never described about him our history of him is very limited but he just stopped giving the visions and went back to being a pastor in his local church and it's the last we hear about William Foy so God tried again because listen you know this whole issue of getting a people ready for the second coming of Christ and doing a work like no other movement has ever done before and being the only movement that will succeed in its mission in the whole history of human earth demands some help so God try it again second choice who was it that was the first one mixed race the second choice who is the second choice to be a prophet to the seventh-day Adventist Church the name is very similar nobody remember you lost all that that little gramma grade school education that was somewhere along the line that book you read somewhere his name was Hazen false William Foy Hazen Foss now tell you a little story about Hazen Foss Hazen fosters a young millerite preacher very bright very brilliant and he had all the potential in the world to do a great work for the Lord Hazen Foss got his vision before the great disappointment October 22 1844 he got his first vision about a pathway leading to heaven and three steps three platforms of truth that would have to be presented before Jesus would come again now this happened to be just a little while before they were expecting Jesus to come into clouds of heaven just a short time before that and Hazen Foss couldn't fort sort this out you mean there are three more things that have to be developed in the period of time before Jesus is going to come on October 22 1844 there isn't enough time for that there are not three there's not enough time for three more major developments of truth of course we understand them as the three angels messages first was the the the message of the judgment hour then come out of Babylon and then the mark of the beast and the seal of God and Hasen flosses that's impossible that can't happen it's not going to be that way and so he didn't give the visions at all he was warned give the visions and again he had a problem because remember one little thing right now to claim to be a prophet right about the year 1844 was an extremely dangerous proposition because that was the year that Joseph Smith was killed by an irate group of people who said we want nothing to do with this guy to claim to be a prophet you put your head in your hands it was not a popular claim to make and so Hazen Foss was afraid of that as well and so he would not give the messages along not a long time but a year or so later Ellen White was giving the messages that God had given to her in a public meeting just like this and unknown to her Hazen Foss was in a back room hearing everything she was saying after the meeting Hazen came to Ellen White and he said those are exactly the visions that God gave to me I refuse to give them the Holy Spirit has departed from me I have no more interest in religious things at all I am a lost man give the visions Ellen for the sake of your own eternal life give the visions that was Hazen fauces testimony to Ellen White so the second choice did not work out and so God came and you've just got to understand now God came the third time not to a preacher not to a bright young millerite speaker but he came to a woman remember the days in which that we are talking about he came to a woman and not just a woman but a woman with a third grade education and almost dead for the first part of her life after she got hit in the head with a rock she was not expected to survive those early years and a lot of her life was in poor health so God came to the weakest of the weak my friends he really really did and he asked her if she would take up the work that to stronger men refused to take up good Ellen White have said no to the Lord sure she could would he have quit he would have found someone else that we don't even know the name of today and we would be talking about that person today you begin to see why I said I really don't care about Ellen White the issue isn't Ellen White at all the issue is is the Holy Spirit speaking through a voice today that is our authority that's the issue I remember my teacher one occasion was asked the question by one of us bright young students how old was Ellen White when she wrote that meaning she was pretty young did she have any understanding of these things and this teacher of mine British woman scratched his beard a little bit thought about it and he said how old was the Holy Spirit right then and that's the only issue that matters isn't it the Holy Spirit is the only one we were we are responsible to an authority not even a prophet but a prophet speaks for the Holy Spirit and that's why she wrote this that it's a small thing to speak against the instrument Ellen why didn't get everything right sometimes she didn't do the very best she was fallible just like all of us she made mistakes all prophets make mistakes but a prophet cannot transmit mistakes in his or her words or else we don't have any authority there's a difference between the Prophet making a mistake like Nathan told David go ahead and build the temple and as soon as he got out God kicked him right back in and said I didn't tell you to say that you tell him what I tell you so a prophet can make mistakes but a prophet cannot write those or speak those and continue to be a prophet or else he ends up like Balaam God does not speak through a voice which is not faithful now I didn't finish this whole paragraph let's go back now I saw it was a small thing to speak against the instrument but it was dangerous to slight the words of God I saw if they were in error and God chose to show them their errors through visions and they disregarded the teachings of God through visions they would be left to take their own way and run in the way of error and think they were right until they would find it out too late if there is ever one sentence I have read in all of Ellen White's writings that described more accurately the last 50 years in the seventh-day Adventist Church I don't know what it is I'm going to give you just a couple quick examples we could spend all afternoon on this subject medical missionary work did Ellen White say that that was the opening wedge the right hand of the gospel everything that would open doors to to the great cities to things that are needing to be done for evangelism how are we doing on medical missionary work today the visions that Ellen White was given at went something like this in every reasonably sized town there should be a clinic where a doctor and a minister would work together on the same salary to win souls and share the health message how are we doing folks how are we doing not even close we have gone a completely different direction sanitariums they don't work anymore where people come from for a month or two to try to figure out what's wrong with their health and get themselves straightened out no we've got to go the acute care hospital method that's the only way that works today and it has to be half funded by the government medical missionary work but education that's one area I've spent a share of my life in and I can't it just I can't tell you what it was like as I was teaching at the collegiate level and I came across a little book by Sutherland principles of Christian education I read that book and I said am i doing education even slightly I'm going to classes I'm giving grades I'm teaching like I'm giving lectures and I read this principles of Christian education by ei Sutherland if that's right I'm not doing any educating at all I'm doing something else than Christian education that bothered me a lot let me tell you because I was working on my PhD and all the rest during that time I was going down the route which every teacher must go down to remain retain credentials as a collegiate level teacher and I read that let me give you a little bit of a nutshell history here Sutherland was teaching at Walla Walla that's where he first was began his what we know of him is teaching Ellen White at that time was over in Australia the Brethren had kind of pushed her over there we're getting nervous with you at Battle Creek is essentially what they said so she said I will take this little exile of yours and I will use it for God's honor and glory we will start a school in Australia where you put your fingers in the pie very much from Battle Creek and this school will be after the visions that God has given me on how to do Christian education and Avondale College was started on the basis of that well over in the United States Sutherland was hearing these things and he said we need to do that at Walla Walla so we started out with some of the principles that he had been hearing from Ellen White in Australia and then the Brethren in Battle Creek started to take notice of this the leaders of the church and they said no you shouldn't be doing this at Walla Walla you need to do it right here in Battle Creek you need to do it at the heart of the work let's have this reform in education let's get it right let's do education properly right here in Battle Creek and Sutherland said to them I can't do it in Battle Creek Battle Creek is in the middle of a city we don't have any room for agriculture we don't have any room for industry we can't do it in the middle of a city according to the principles that God has outlined for education if you'll let me move the whole College I'll come your way and so a whole they took him at his word they were willing to do it and a whole trainload moved out of Battle Creek and right down to Berrien Springs Michigan where Emanuel missionary College was formed and Sutherland and McGann began to develop the principles of Christian education for about two whole years is all they lasted because you see they were doing some radical things education was half work and half book study and is just as important as the grades you got in a class where's the work that you produced and what you how you learned how to develop a trade so you could go out and do something with your life even if you couldn't get a job with the book study you had done so you could go to the missionary fields and show them how to raise crops and how to build a little small industry that's the kind of education they were doing and because of that grades play played very little part in this you did not get a diploma at the end of your college education you got a certificate in you had completed what you started out to do and there was no set number of courses or kinds of courses you took no GE courses general ed courses were necessary you came to the teacher you the teacher this is the kind of thing I want out of my education the teacher would outline classes in line with your desires you would take just those classes and then you would leave having accomplished what you came to the college for that's radical stuff no degrees no diplomas no grades and the people at Battlecat emanuel missionary college says we can't handle that and Sutherland and McGann had to resign well they didn't give up because Ellen White kept pushing by this time she was back in the United States and she suggested and they agreed they would take a little trip on a boat south and they took a trip on a boat down to Tennessee and around Nashville Tennessee in the little town of Madison they came across around a bend in the river and Ellen White said that's the place I saw envision and the story that Sutherland tells is as they got out of the boat and looked over the property he sat on a rock and cried it was the worst possible place you could ever imagine to start a college pig pens chicken abarnes all broken down no room for crops nothing could be developed it was the worst of the worst but Sutherland and Magan had such total faith that Ellen White was speaking from the Lord and not her opinion that they said we'll put our feelings aside we'll stop crying and we'll get to work and Madison became one of the shining beacons of Adventist education for many many years I mean to the extent that people delegations from places that are third world countries would come over to Madison saying we don't have much money we don't have any you know lot bright minds we just want to get education started on a small basis in our country how do you do it teach us how and a lot of people came over and learned aha education could work on in a in a simple way trouble was by that time all of our major colleges had been established Walla Walla PUC you know Columbia etc etc all around the country southern and this place Madison that was not a denominational school that was a self-supporting school and in those days that meant you support yourselves we don't help you any self-supporting meant you're on your own brothers you you you you can take your little a lifebuoy with you and sink or swim that's up to you you are on your own and so Madison didn't get any help Madison was always just kind of the other school and the other and the major schools went a different direction in terms of education as you probably know there isn't any Madison College anymore it died it's gone it doesn't exist and here's my simple point the reason for this long story as best I can tell Avondale coming through Emanuel missionary College for those two years down to Madison was to be the model of all Adventist education right up until the second coming of Christ all Adventist schools were to have been patterned after that Avondale Emmanuel missionary Madison model and that's totally gone and has been gone for as long way before I was born I've been born in a different Adventist educational world then Ellen White's understanding of our education could be done and today we are just agonizing over the fact that so many of our young people go through our colleges and walk out of the church almost immediately after that I don't know there may be families here in that very situation everywhere I go that is the most important question I get is how do i what do i do where do i educate my children how do i do it we agonize over the fact that we're losing so many of our Adventist young people does that get back to this the God would show show them their errors through visions they disregard those teachings they would be left to take their own way and run in the way of error and think they were right until they would find it out too late are we running in the way of error my friends in the seventh-day Adventist Church I've just listed two areas we could talk about quite a few more and the key point is not to discourage any one of us because this is still the apple of God's eye this church is still the one he wants to work through to finish his work but we haven't been faithful to the prophetic voice we have picked and chosen we have set her aside we have ignored what she said what is she saying and we wonder why things are going wrong we wonder why there isn't the unity in the direction and the mission and the focus this sentence my friends is a hugely important sentence for every one of us next paragraph what reserve power has the Lord with which to reach those who have cast aside his warnings and reproofs and a credit to the testimonies of the Spirit of God to no higher source than human wisdom in the judgment what can you who have done this offer to God as an excuse from turning from the evidence as he has given you that God was in the work all right it's page three have you I know you have you've realized that sometimes prophets say things which are hard to be missed to understand and which are easy to misunderstand did do a great number of Christians misunderstand what Paul said about law and grace can Paul be easily misunderstood on those subjects Ellen White said on one occasion I am a lesser light and to give to give emphasis to the greater light lesser light greater light what does lesser light connotative ear the word lesser not as important not as bright not as clear not as authoritative its lesser Bible is greater Ellen White's writings are lesser all right let's look at that for just a minute now let's read these two paragraphs the written testimonies are not to give new light but to impress vividly upon the heart the truths of inspiration already revealed man's duty to God and to his fellow man has been distinctly specified in God's Word yet but few of you are obedient to the light given additional truth is not brought out but God has through the testimonies simplified the great truths already given and in his own chosen way brought them before the people to awaken and impress the mind with them that all may be left without excuse okay no new light just a just clearer explanations alright next paragraph in ancient times God spoke to men by the mouths of prophets and apostles in these days who speaks to them by the testimonies of his Spirit there was never a time when God instructed his people more earnestly than he instructs them now concerning his will in the course that he would have them pursue does that sound like lesser importance here is the way the statement reads that people have misunderstood little heed is given to the Bible and the Lord has given a lesser light to lead men and women to the greater light so what is this business of lesser light I'm going to illustrate it on the screen let's see get it there it is all true light all true truth comes from God all that God wants to know for us for us to know its source is from God and so the first thing that God did to try to convey his understanding is to speak to Moses and then Moses had the responsibility of speaking and then writing the material that God had given him so God speaks to Moses God could have talked directly to us he chose not to except for the 10 commandments God spoke to Moses Moses put those ideas in words for us now if God's will had been done through the Israelite people how big would your Bible have been five books and maybe Joe okay five books the Pentateuch the Torah the books of Moses because if you read carefully throws out through those books the whole plan of salvation is there the lamb the sacrifices they what Jesus will do the the obedience disobedience it's all there so God speaking through Moses was enough so why did God speak again because they didn't follow Moses very well so God kept on trying he didn't quit he said let's keep going so God spoke through Isaiah Jeremiah Ezekiel and all of the Old Testament prophets now those prophets had two jobs to do now they had to convey what God said to them so we could understand it just like Moses but now they had to be tested were they true or were they false because for instance when Isaiah was speaking there was a man by the name of Mike hyah that's not Micah Mike ayah who was also speaking words from the Lord he said and the people had to have some way to figure out who was telling the truth is Isaiah or is my Chaya because they were saying opposite things so how was Isaiah tested by the Bible Moses was their Bible for a thousand years Moses was their Bible if you would ask a Hebrew in the time of Isiah show me your Bible they would have brought out the books of Moses that was their Bible that was their authority and to pass the test as a true prophet Isaiah had to prove that he was in harmony with the Bible he was tested by the Bible which then was the writing of Moses so I ask you a simple question in terms of Isaiah when Isaiah is speaking and writing who is the greater light and who is the lesser light Moses is the greater light and Isaiah is the lesser light because Moses Isaiah is tested by Moses Moses is V Authority Isaiah is the present speaker claiming to have authority and once Isaiah passes the test he moves into positions of authority but not until well did that work out very well for the Israelites no again once again they were not obedient to all of the prophets so God didn't give up he tried again he kept on going this is now New Testament times he now speaks through Paul and all of the other New Testament writers in the New Testament they give God's Word to us and now they are tested by not just Moses but Moses and all the prophets they didn't speak of old and new Testament in their time that's our Terms they spoke of the law of the prophets and the writings the law was Moses the prophets and the writings are the Psalms the law the prophets and the writings were there it was their Bible and when Paul came along didn't he ask the believers to test him out check him out they were more noble because they checked him out to see if what he said was true by the Bible so when Paul is speaking and writing who's the greater light and who's the lesser light the Old Testament is the like and Paul is the lesser light during that period of time because he's tested by the Old Testament teachings and so obviously the last part in this little drama that God is playing out he doesn't quit with Paul but 2,000 years later he speaks again and he speaks through Ellen White and she says she is the lesser light to lead men and women to the greater light so lesser cannot mean lesser in inspiration lesser in importance lesser in clarity or lesser in authority can it it has to do with lesser in scope the Bible is the scope for all time Ellen White is the one at the very end of time to help people make it through the time of trouble coming ahead it's like at the old ocean voyages and it's still done today the captain is the one who guides the ocean ship this ship across the ocean and when they come to a difficult Harbor a pilot comes on board and until they reach their destination the pilot directs that ship as to where it should go Ellen White is like that pilot during that period of time just that limited period of time her scope is lesser her purpose is lesser but her Authority is the same as John and Paul and Moses and that's something that I think is one of the great misunderstood statements of Ellen White that she is the lesser light to lead men and women to the greater light ok I'm gonna finish up now we've taken a long time but this is the most important subject for today page 3 doctrinal Authority when they she's talking about the early early days of Adventists when they came to the point in their study where they said we can do nothing more the Spirit of the Lord would come upon me I would be taken off in vision and a clearer explanation of the passages we had been studying would be given me with instruction as to how we were to labor and teach effectively thus light was given that helped us to understand the scriptures in regard to Christ his mission and his priesthood a line of truth extending from that time to the time when we shall enter the City of God was made plain to me and I gave to others the instruction that the Lord had given me we're gonna take a brief look this afternoon at something that you may never have thought of before because I guarantee I never had and I went through all of our classes and schools all the way through in my education and I never heard what I'm gonna share with you next until I found it for myself in the early days we gathered together to study the Bible we didn't have our doctrines forms don't 28 statements of belief we were trying to figure out what the Bible taught and you know the story about beginning the Sabbath don't you sometimes some of us began at at 12 o'clock some of us began it at 6 o'clock and some of us began at at sundown we were doing all doing different things until finally we came together studied it out and decided the Bible taught sundown to sundown okay that's how we did it we had to go through it step by step and she's writing about that period of time please notice at points they said we can do nothing more and then Ellen White would begin to speak now I'm not going to take too much time on this I'm going to go over to page 4 right now you can read the rest of them on your own at a future time page 4 we're going to look at one of these conferences our first conference was at Volney in brother Arnold's barn there were about thirty-five present all that could be collected in that part of the state there were hardly two agreed each was strenuous for his views declaring that they were according to the Bible brother Arnold held a thousand years of Revelation twenty were in the past and at one hundred forty four thousand were those raised at Christ's resurrection and has we had the emblem of our dying Lord before us and was about to commemorate his sufferings brother Arnold arose and said he had no faith in what we were about to do that the sacrament was a continuation of the Passover to be observed but once a year these strange differences of opinion rolled a heavy weight upon me especially as brother Arnold spoke of the thousand years being in the past I knew that he was an error and great grief pressed my spirits the light of heaven rested upon me I was soon lost to earthly things my accompanying angel presented before me some of the errors of those present and also the truth in contrast with their errors that these discordant views which they claimed to be according to the Bible were only according to their opinion of the Bible and that their errors must be yielded and the United Angels message alright interesting story you have a group of people gathering together to try to understand what the Bible is really teaching and what we are going to believe and all of them have different opinions and here comes Ellen White out of a vision and she's beginning to give the messages that she has been given now there's something here to understand it's not in your outline but I'll just share it with you quickly during this whole time she says I could not understand the reasoning of the Brethren my mind was locked as it were and I could not comprehend the meaning of the scriptures we were studying this was one of the greatest sorrows of my life I was in this condition of mind until all the principal points of our faith were made clear to our minds in harmony with the Word of God the Brethren knew that when not in vision I could not understand these matters and they accepted as light direct from heaven the revelations given here's another statement for two or three years my mind continued to be locked to the scriptures you find those in selected messages volume 1 page 207 and selected messages volume 3 page 38 so here we have the Brethren studying together differing opinions Ellen White come sawed go goes off in vision and she comes back and she says something like brother Arnold you've got to stop teaching what you're teaching you're teaching is wrong what would you do if you were brother Arnold wouldn't you say something like this here's what I would say Ellen would you give me a Bible study I've studied this whole thing out on the on the thousand years and I believe I have evidence to believe that there in the past it's all in the past it's not in the future give me a Bible study Ellen and you know Ellen White could no more give a Bible study than to do a physics lesson that afternoon what I just read that her mind was locked to the meaning of the scriptures one of the greatest sorrows of her life she couldn't follow the logic the evidence of the ones that were talking discussing these subjects all she could do is say brother Arnold this is what the angel just told me and brother Arnold had a decision to make didn't be Wow that's a tough one I don't know why I'm wrong I haven't been shown why I'm wrong but this young woman approximately at that point 21 years of age no education this young woman says that I've got to stop teaching what I'm teaching and I don't think she did it for just brother Arnold because she went around that room I think 35 people and they each was strenuous for his views what would you have done if you were in that room that day well I think I know what happened because of the last sentence in this paragraph our meeting ended victoriously truths gained the victory apparently brother Arnold said I don't know why I'm wrong but I have enough faith that God has spoken but I'll figure it out later why I'm wrong I'll stop teaching what I'm teaching boy does that take faith what that what these other references selected messages volume 1 page 207 and selected messages volume 3 page 38 that her mind was locked to the reasoning of the Brethren so we've got something interesting going on here look at the next paragraph at that time one error after another pressed in upon us ministers and doctors brought in new doctrines we would search the scriptures with much prayer and the Holy Spirit would bring the truth to our minds sometimes whole nights would be devoted to searching the scriptures and earnestly asking God for guidance companies of devoted men and women assembled for this purpose the power of God would come upon me and I was enabled clearly to define what is truth and what is Error as the points of our faith were thus established our feet were placed upon a solid foundation we accepted the truth point by point under the demonstration of the Holy Spirit I would be taken off in vision and explanations would be given me how did we get our doctrines my friends that's the question how did we formulate the beliefs that we share today as seventh-day adventists how did we come to understand what we today understand I would love to tell you today it was by Bible study and prayer and fasting end of discussion but that's not what happened in some cases yes that's all it needed but in some cases the Brethren said we can do nothing more we're stuck we can't agree Ellen White would be taken off in vision she would come back and notice she says I was enabled clearly to define what is truth and what is Error I have been taught that Ellen White's visions only confirmed what had earlier been agreed upon by our Bible study by these Bible study groups meeting together she did not initiate she only confirmed so I'm going to ask you a question the words define and confirm are they two different meanings when you jump off a third story building do you define or confirm the law of gravity when Albert Einstein came up with his theory of relativity was he defining or confirming something he was defining wasn't he brand-new knowledge no one had ever come up with that theory before define means a new initiative confirmed means it's already been done and I substantiate it I was taught that Ellen White only confirmed what Bible study had led our pioneers to but she says I was in the defining process I helped to define our doctrines we did not get our doctrines just from Bible study alone we got our doctrines from Bible study and from visions in fact she says it down a little farther gospel workers page 307 the foundations of our faith were laid at the beginning of our work by prayerful study of the word and by revelation meaning visions that's how we got our doctrines all right the reason that we have not taught this in the seventh-day Adventist Church is because I have walked myself into the biggest quicksand you could ever imagine because having said what I've now said what can anyone out there who is questioning seventh-day Adventism now say we get our doctrines from Ellen White not the Bible yeah that's the accusation which is very very strong you get all your doctrines from Ellen White not from the Bible and I've just said the same thing right here except not quite we did study the Bible we did try to understand it we did come to some conclusions but on some things we couldn't and the Lord stepped in and said this is what the Bible teaches not that brother Arnold you're wrong the millennium is in the future from vision that was a vision given by God when we didn't understand it and so all of this now put some major problem in the works how then are we not a cult because that's what a cult is all about following a person not the Word of God are we followers of Ellen White not the Word of God all right don't let people like Walter Martin define cult for you find out what the word really means I spoke a few years ago in a church in Los Angeles called the People's Temple anybody remember that the People's Temple remember Jim Jones remember Guyana is not the right country I think it is took his people down there from the People's Temple in Los Angeles this was to be the great communal experience and then when the authorities began to question the irregularities they sent a congressman down there and what they do they killed him and at that point Jim Jones said from God's Word I am Telling You which was really my word drink the poison that's what our destiny is that's a cult when you follow the teachings of a man over the Word of God Jeremiah is not a cult leader because his teachings are based on the Word of God even though they sound very difficult surrender to Babylon but it's still based on the writings of Moses if you disobey you will be taken into captivity Jeremiah is not a cult leader because he agrees with the Word of God Ellen White is either in contradiction to the Word of God or a true prophet those are the only two options if she's in contradiction to the Word of God and we follow Ellen White were a cult if she's in harmony with the Word of God and we follow her writings were following a prophetic voice it's a delicate issue but it is a very important issue and at this point here is the key the key understanding that we've got to gotta have here's why it's so important to believe that everything that Ellen White says was from God not just parts not just pieces because if some of the things weren't from God then which of our doctrines are made up by her she did help to form our doctrines we did not come up with him all by ourselves and so if she's only partially speaking for God then which parts of our doctrines are false doctrines which one the health message for instance the standards of the church or maybe even something as serious as whether a person is in heaven or hell right now after you they die which parts come from God and which parts come from Ellen White's own theories so at this point this is why it's so important to believe that everything that Ellen White's spoken wrote is from God not her own opinion if it's from her own opinion we're the biggest cult going if it's from God we have a prophetic leader just like they had in Jeremiah's time it's crucial to understand this subject today if Adventism is going to continue to exist look at the very last sentence bottom of the page all who believe that the Lord has spoken through sister white and has given her a message will be safe from the many delusions that will come in these last days which means that all who don't believe what we aren't smart enough to withstand what Satan's gonna throw at us how desperately we need that last what Ellen White warns us about in the book great controversy of heaven if you haven't read the last chapters of great controversy read them again the deceptions of Satan are going to be very very strong and you need to know what God has said and how to prepare for them so right here in this subject that we're dealing with we have got to understand that survival as a church is only possible through obedience to God's voices whether they be in the Bible or the spirit of prophecy I'm going to add one more thing so there's no misunderstanding yes we did get some of our messages through Ellen White's vision but today not one of our evangelists ever has to say this is from the Bible and this is from Ellen White because every one of our doctrines can be proved 100% from the Bible without any need for Ellen White we just weren't bright enough to get it the first time around we were just thick-headed like most other people and we got stuck so God helped us once God pointed us to the right places it's easy to figure out these doctrines from the Bible alone our doctrines are not based on Ellen White they're based on the Bible but God helped us to find those doctrines in the Bible through Ellen White I know that makes us a little nervous but that's the way it was I'm gonna share a story with you as we finish up back in the 1950s in ministry magazine was the statement no doctrinal truth or prophetic interpretation ever came to this people through the spirit of prophecy not on a single case that was the statement no doctrinal truth ever came to this people through the spirit of prophecy ml Andreasen I read from him last night he came across this statement listened to his response I am charitable enough to believe that the brother who wrote in the ministry did not know any better but if so his ignorance was profound the tendency in the article is to downgrade mrs. white it would be more nearly true to say that many of our doctrines including those of Christ mission and priesthood came to us as light direct from heaven through the visions and that's just the way it was that's how our doctrines came into existence do we have complete confidence in that prophetic voice given to us or are we just like the people of Jeremiah's time who said we can't stomach some of what he says to us we're not gonna do it that way the results were tragic for that generation and we dare not repeat that mistake we dare not misunderstand how God speaks through prophetic voices and once again it's not about Ellen White it's about the Holy Spirit leading a church and leading us as individuals are we willing to let God do it his way so I have two appeals for you number one make up your mind don't sit on the fence forever it's not comfortable on the fence anyway make up your mind do all the study you need to take all the time you need to but make up your mind number two and this is the one that is the hardest if I if this church is a normal Church they're going to be a number of families here whose loved ones are not part of God's faithful remnant right now they're wandering out in the world doing their own thing careless and you're praying for them you're hoping that they will return to their faith and these young ones find a miraculous experience they come back to the church and you praise the Lord the lost sheep has returned the lost sheep has been found we have a feast together and praise for the Lord accept what if that loved one of yours that you've been praying for comes back to a church where hardly anyone ever talks about Ellen White where the pastor may say there are gonna be no quotations from Ellen White from the pulpit only the Bible where the friends in the Sabbath School classes do you really believe in the Ellen White she's way out of date her writings don't make any sense anymore oh yeah that's silly to believe in her if all the people are casting doubt around your loved one as to the Ministry of Ellen White your loved one is in way more danger now than when they are out carousing in the bars because your loved one is now feeling secure back in the fold but in a fold where everything that is preparing a person for the soon coming of Christ is being laughed at and rejected and scorned and mocked you'd better be praying twice as hard for your loved one if your loved one is in that situation because that is the situation unfortunately tragically in a number of seventh-day adventists circles today where Ellen White is ridiculed at the highest levels those are issues that we have to come to grips with those are issues we have to be praying about for ourselves for our loved ones for our friends faith in gods were prophetic voice is never an easy thing it always seems like it has prickles with it some things that are said that we don't like that don't make sense to us that we don't want to go by and we find reasons for going another direction I hope that this study has helped a little bit in trying to formulate your thoughts on this very remember I said this is the most important subject I talk about and I'll add just one last little thing for those of you who are trying to meet certain opposition's there are a lot of websites right now that are very very negative about write the writings of Ellen White and I'm gonna give you a couple of sources by which if you do run into this problem that you can do some research on your own to try to meet some of these issues a couple of websites that I have come across that you can go to the first one is an official website by the denomination it's called Ellen white answers dot org meeting some of the issues that are being raised about Ellen White today Ellen white answers dot org another one is done by an individual layperson in the Adventist Church down in Tennessee a friend of mine it's done a great job with his website you have to follow this one carefully to get it right Ellen - white dot-com if you just put in Ellen White it goes to the general conference Ellen White - I'm sorry Ellen - white dot-com got it Ellen - white dot-com is another website another book that has just been put out is called 101 questions about Ellen White and her writings 101 questions about Ellen White and her writings available from the ABCs so those are some sources if you do run into objections problems that you have no idea what the proper answer is for that you might find some help right there all right I've taken a long time on this because as I say this is the most important subject I talk about in everything I say because it has to do with who is the final authority my mind or the voice of the prophetic the prophetic voice where does final Authority lie

Channel: Living Faith Seventh-day Adventist Church

Views: 23,619

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Id: ckbDoNdkvGY

Length: 94min 46sec (5686 seconds)

Published: Sat Jul 13 2013