How Good is the Leper?

hey guys so if your robot here bring another guide to tips and tricks video this time we're asking how good is the leper and let me just answer that I'm going to go totally out of order here how good a Selectric the leper is an absolute pile of garbage the letter is the worst class in the game the leper is not worth using or playing whatever and the leper is a complete disgrace to the team and should be shot never recruited and not letting the team so now we got that all the way let me give a quick disclaimer I'm talking primarily from the perspective that you're approaching the hardest content in darkest dungeon that you're playing in hard mode often with no light and the strategies that I'm going to be talking about and the problems in strengths of these characters is going to be designed to be approached from that perspective that you're encountering the hardest stuff that you could do and the thought process is anything that works in the harder levels will also work on the easier levels so let's talk about the leper all right so the leper stats high HP that's that's good I really like high HP that's awesome very high HP - I think the highest in the game or maybe the second-highest in the game low load low to medium dodge which is fine I don't really value dodge very highly so I don't really care if I have a lot of dogs in for speed for speed is the lowest in the game maybe I think it's the absolute lowest but it may may be just around the Crusader speed which is really really bad low speed means that opponents consistently go ahead of you means you consistently go last which means opponents consistently get extra actions in that they wouldn't if you had been faster low crit percentage is not such a big deal to me I don't really care that much about creep percentage on my characters especially if I have very very high damage and the leper has the highest damage in the game the lepers damage is even better than the damage that a an abomination has when the abominations in his transformed form which is awesome that means it's 19.5 is just as high as it goes which is pretty damn awesome so that's the highest damage in the game that's really good 120% Sun resist is awesome having your characters be stunned is really annoying and can lead to death so not being stunned is a big deal 100% blight resist is slightly above average that's decent 70 bleeds a little bit scary especially in this expansion when there's a lot of enemies it bleeds on you but um yeah so that's not good 80 disease is average 110 move is fairly decent move resist which is important for characters that don't like to be shuffled like the leper so that's good 100 debuff resists is above average 70 trap disarmed is below average it means you're not going to be doing very efficient trap disarming that's okay there's lots of other characters again and moving forward one in moving zero backwards is pretty restrictive it's only two classes that have this dalian in the leper and both of those classes are in a lot of trouble if they get shuffled because they don't do very well outside of the first two positions and the leper is particularly bad for this because unlike the Hellion the Hellion has believed two abilities that three abilities that can be used outside of position one or two the leper has zero abilities that can be used outside of one or two every single one of the lepers abilities require they be in position one or two so they get shuffled to something like position four that means you have to entire turns remove from four to three and then three to two where you can't do anything whatsoever that's a big deal but overall the chassis is okay you know high damage high HP high stun resist those are decent a little bit slow and the movement is pretty bad but this is something we can work with this is a chassis that is perhaps even better than the Hellions chassis image the Hellions an excellent character so what is the problem with the leper why is the leper such a useless character and why should you never ever play with the leper and it's really to do with the skills the leper house let's talk about the lepers world the leper is a damage dealer only a leper has no sons has no stress fields that affect other put other characters has no heals that affect other characters and those are literally the roles I recognized on our healer stress healer damage dealer so the leper is a damage dealer and is only a damage dealer well where can the leper deal damage to it turns out the leprechaun only deal damage to position one and to the content in darkest dungeon is the way to beat the harder content and darkest dungeon is you treat the fights in a very simple manner the early part of the fight is a race and it's a race to kill the high priority targets who are almost always on position three in position four and then after you killed those high priority targets who are often stress healer or stressed nuclear's or very high damage dealer characters something like that you then are dealing with the characters in position one in position to wear off much weaker and the goal is to take as much time as you can to recover off of those those characters on one and two to heal your group and distress heal your group the leopard can only do damage to position one in position two those are the only real reliable damage dealing attacks they have our choppin Hugh he was an AoE for the front two ranks and chop is a single target to the front two ranks that's pretty bad and of itself that's actually that's terrible and of itself it's the only class that has this restriction the Crusader at least can stun the front two ranks even if he can't really do damage past the two ranks where he could stress heal during that the leopard sorts you other people that is leper can't do that so the leper and then the race part of the fight is almost entirely worthless you can't contribute to the team killing the high priority targets and you can't stun the lower priority targets that can still do things like create you or cause damage or disrupt your team you can't control them at all however Hugh has its uses there is a single boss fight I can think of where this is useful and that is the undead crew the issue is unfortunately that the Crusader has a Anti undead buff on the Crusaders AoE and the Crusaders AoE hits the same targets and probably the Crusader just ends up being a better character to bring on that especially since the Crusader can stress healed throughout the rest of the dungeon but if you had to bring the leper to a boss you could bring the leper to the undead crew the Drowned cure whatever is called and deal with it there he would actually be useful there but the big problem with both of these abilities is actually the accuracy mod the accuracy mod does scale up across the course of the game but it remains about 20 less accuracy than skills of a similar level at a similar power so if you look at intimidate intimidate has about 105 accuracy that is the rough accuracy that most skills have at this level so these are about 20 accuracy lower that means the lepers high damage is actually inconsistent high damage you could take that and just multiply it by 4 by you know the hit percentage to get a more accurate rendition of what is actual damages and worse than that inconsistent damage is in my opinion in darkest dungeon worse than low damage most of the time because what you're actually trying to do and you spend multiple rounds doing this is you plan out what your characters are likely to do for the round in order to eliminate the highest threat targets and control the targets you can't fully eliminate the leper adds a big slice of RNG to that something you are not able to accurately predict what targets you will be killing versus what targets you won't be killing because sometimes the leopard is [ __ ] misses and he misses a disproportionately high amount of time compared to anybody else this is particularly annoying with the way that reinforcement mechanics worse work you want to extend each round to the maximum potential number of turns you can do that you can recover in without risking additional stress or damage so you want to spend a lot of time stunning you want to kill targets with the last possible action in order to get the most number of heals and stress fields in between and if the leper is the last person to act so the guy who would be doing the killing blow which is going to be because he's so [ __ ] slow some of the time he just misses that attack which means you get reinforcement stress and sometimes even reinforcements because you're [ __ ] leopard didn't kill did it pull the pull the trigger and kill the guy that you need to kill so he's bad in the early parts of the game the early parts of the fight he's bad in the late parts of the fight and he's inconsistent when the parts were you do need him well filthy you say you're probably sitting there you're going well with the leopard you just need to buff his accuracy if you buff is accuracy he's not inconsistent that's kind of true let's talk through that though the first problem is this he still can't hit the targets you want these are his primary damage stealing abilities we will talk to his other abilities these are as primary damage healing abilities they don't hit the ranks you want doesn't matter how accurate you are if you can't project damage to the ranks you care about so that's that's the first problem with buffing accuracy the second part of buffing accuracy is bluffing accuracy comes at a cost the cost is this is called opportunity cost the cost is if you run a camp buff well you've used camp left points these time points that could be used for other buffs on other characters so that's that's opportunity cost you could run an item boss an item accuracy buff the problem is by running an item accuracy buff you could be running some other item buffs like damage or stun chance or speed or some sort of survivability thing and then the third option is well you could buff prevent you could use a skill based damage or accuracy buff and that's how a problem with that and is well we'll do the two problems business there's a second part to all these that we'll get to is that when you're doing this you can't do something else it does happen that in the lepers case that doesn't matter because the leper can't do anything [ __ ] useful anyways so you could for example spend all your turn spamming revenge on the leper and that would be fine that would address the accuracy problem with the leper which means he would consistently last hit the target you want however the cost of bringing the leper is you can't bring someone who's better than the leper and with every class being better than the leper you might as well just bring a different class because the other classes aren't going to have this huge [ __ ] problem to the leper class hat they might be able to actually stun a target you need they might be able to consistently hit a target without having to sacrifice camping items or time costs or they might be able to do damage to a target that you actually care about doing damage to so every time we look at how do you fix the problems of the leper the answer is you can fix the problems of the leopard by not bringing the leper and that's a huge huge detraction from me wanting to bring this class so let's talk about the other skills of leper we've got purge purge is a knock-back that clears all corpses it can only be used from position one or two and it can only hit position one this ability is mostly useless this ability is useful if you have lots of lepers and they can't hit the target you want and you can use a leper to knock back a target to another leper can hit the target you actually want to hit why doesn't this work most of the time because they're you'd never bring [ __ ] to lepers because you're not bad at the game and don't want to waste your time with terrible classes but be it's because if you do have a single leper by the time you've knocked a target back a lot of the enemy abilities have built-in portions that fix their positioning for example in the Warrens there's the whatever the low hit point high protection mob is or does all the slicing of you his ability moves him back as he attacks the cultists abilities move them forward as they attack the bone Archer abilities move them back as they attack the what else is there it's just a number of the zombie abilities move them forward as they attack there's a number of these abilities that are that their basic attack ability of of units that moves them to the position they want to be in anyways so if you can only if you only can move them once per round and not stun them when it comes to their turn they often use abilities that help fix their positioning and their other allies also use abilities to help their help help their positioning not to mention it is a knock-back so not only does it have an accuracy check it also has a move skilled chance check so it's not always going to do what it claims it's going to do even when it hits and it's not always going to hit so there's multiple checks before this can be useful and it's just at almost no damage it's basically a really bad stunt is what perched urns out tends to be revenge we've kind of talked about you could revenge as damage accuracy and crit at the cost of dodge and protection it only lasts for three rounds per time but it will stack with itself so you could have up to about three of these simultaneously but it just honestly isn't very good you don't want to have high damage versus the remaining two targets because you don't care about killing the remaining two tigers very quickly so why are you buffing accuracy I guess you could buff accuracy so you consistently get that last hit so that you don't get stressed reinforcements but it seems like a pretty high cost of having to spam this ability number times to do that all right what next we have withstand withstand is a protection buff that is also the leper heal stress gets plus protection and marks himself temporarily with withstand that's probably the lepers best ability I don't care about the protection portion that much protection is alright as a skill goes it can be very situational II useful the problem with protection is no matter how much protection you have you still take full of stress damage from stress nukes or crits so even if they even if the crit only crit you for one damage it still gives you the same amount of stress damage it would have a create you for like 50 damage or something so protection doesn't reduce stress damage which means stacking protection is only of limited use the Plus stress heal is nice but it only stress heals himself and it does cost him an action and I can't help but compare absolution the abomination ability compared to withstand withstand can only be used in position one - and only heals stress it does give you protection but it doesn't heal stress and health which means that if you're low on health and you're trying to use the leper as kind of like a big meat tank where your other unit can do stuff and the leper stands there and takes it well he can't heal his stress and his help at the same time you'd have to choose to use of strategies health healing ability unlike the abomination who if you want to meet tank with him just have this big lump of meat that gets hit a lot the abomination can heal his own stress and his health simultaneously that said is still probably his best ability so lemony is a single target healthy oh it only consumed himself it also gives him a bleed blight debuff and move resist that's a decent again the problem is I compare this to absolution I go why why would I why would I use that compared to the other skill this this does provide a little bit more health per seal but it doesn't get the stress part the blight bleed debuff remove resist is very nice but again better than casting this most times would be stunning the target that could hit you since he doesn't have a stun this is a inferior approach to preventing damage yes I can heal damage but the damage that the enemies are doing especially at the higher levels especially on the higher difficulties often is more damaged and I can get in a single heal in other words I'm losing health doing this compared to just stunning the friggin opponent and I still risk all the stress elements in the crit elements that were there when I get attacked that wouldn't be there if the opponent was stunned finally there's intimidate intimidate was just recently changed I actually think it was a nerf hilariously intimidate was what I thought was the lepers best skill previously where a weed the front two ranks and gave them a - damage buff and mind it given a mind is actually about before as well I don't quite remember but this now marks himself and gives a - damage buff and a - protection buff to a single target the target can be in any position it has normal accuracy which is the only skill that just the leper has as normal accuracy as 105 accuracy at this level and it will scale up which means it will hit fairly consistently but it has a minus 85 percent damage model mage is only doing 15% damage with disability so you can potentially use this to help deal damage to rank 3 or 4 which means it might potentially be useful but a - 85 percent damage mods means it could to be doing a very very small amount of damage to either of those positions probably not enough to do damage consistently to kill consistently but at least it can project damage a little bit the debuff element of this is fairly weak you tend to care so much about the damage element on an enemy again you care about their stress so if it was crit that might be nice you care about their health so if it was damaged that might be nice you care about preventing them from acting that would be nice and you care about preventing the from acting because that is a you know removing 26% of their damage is no way near as good as stunning them in which you've removed 100% of their damage and remove their ability to cause stress from stress nuke and remove their ability to cause critical which is doing additional damage and stress this is just a small damage reduction to the opponent and the - protection element is situationally useful but probably not as useful as hitting the stupid thing and and to be honest there aren't a lot of high protection enemies in rank three or four that you worry about most of you worry about ghouls who are high protection and high stress that are very high priority target and things like [ __ ] no tires or this type of stuff which are decent protection which a protection debuff would be nice but mostly those enemies occupy position one - which is the only time the leper can actually hit something so the one time you have a target you're like man this target I really like to hit em I'd like to hit him really hard I've got a leper I can hit him really hard and then he's the target with protection you're like I guess I could intimidate him in this 85% of my damage it's just it is just very little synergy with this skill in the leopard honestly it just doesn't do what you needed to do so basically what kills the leper it's not the chassis the leopard chassis is okay the speeds a bit of a problem but the rest of his stuff is actually decent high damage high Sun resist high HP the bleed stuff a little bit scaring the move stuff a little bit scariest the skills the leper skills are just really bad skills and when you compare the leper to any other class you almost always want another class all right let's talk about the camping skills a leper has quarantine quarantine is really good it has a does 20% damage the leper who cares and it only cost three time cost which is great and all companions have a 50% chance for each of these effects to occur so you can have both of these effects occur and it actually happens fairly regularly at both of yous effects occur you either lose 10 to 20 stress or you lose 15 stress where you can have both of those occur or neither of them which kind of sucks but it can be it can be a very nice stress yell and it's fairly cheap reflection is great in the sense that it gives accuracy to a class that needs accuracy removes which is good and give some crunch ants the big problem is you're bringing a leper all right bloody shroud also fairly good there are three I believe resist buffs in the game I think the abomination has one which is self only the antiquarian has one which is cast on others and the leper has one which is self only as well these are good buffs resists to have extra bleed extra blight and move in deep moving debuff a little bit less so but bleeding blight in particular excellent on a particular set of bosses I'm thinking things like the flesh but also a lot of bosses just have have bleed and blights that are really nasty so being resistant to that can be extremely good the problem is it's on the leper let the mask down is fairly weak overall honestly it trades 15 stressed across the party 4 - 25 stress on the leper the leper has a self stress heal so on and withstand so most of the time you don't really need I left the mast down your the leper is going to be standing around going what the [ __ ] am i doing anyways so you might as well spam stress removal so it's pretty rare that lets them let the mast down is going to be all that useful you generally don't want to swap stress from the leper to the party you want to swap stress the other way around you want to stress [ __ ] stress from the party to the leper so the leper can cure it off with his skill set so this is kind of backward to the skill all right any special restrictions the leper is religious that's not actually much of a restriction here it's actually perhaps a slight increase in utility since the leper can't combine with the abomination which is a bit of a bummer but the abomination is a good character and you might have a chance to use the abomination the lepers not you're never going to use the leper so you don't really care if you can't move with the abomination that doesn't impact your gameplay whatsoever because you're not using lepers so that restriction really isn't that big of a problem overall however it could be a slight buff if you insist on using lepers out of some desire form of masochism or just you know I suppose on a challenge mode in some sense I'm actually doing it right now on my challenge mode I am using lepers and I'm doing that in part to make my gameplay harder so if you're playing on ng+ and full darkness mode in full leper mode well the religious part actually is a little bit of a buff because there are camping skills that the vestal has that can actually positively impact religious characters and the left is indeed a religious character okay so overall ranking for the leper he is the worst period the worst of everything I can say the worst character the darkest dungeon game but I kind of like just ending the sentence with the worst very low power character you're mostly going to be very disappointed in the lepers performance in all ways and I really strongly recommends you just don't recruit lepers to your team there's no reason to do it they don't fulfill any role that anyone else can't do the only thing they do is they put big numbers on the screens if you like seeing big numbers the leper is maybe the big number guy for you but it's not particularly good for your game to have big numbers appearing randomly on the screen on characters that you don't want killed anyways so if you do tend to use the leper good luck to you but I will not be doing that unless I have to hey guys guys hopefully this was entertaining and informative thank you very much for watching and I'll see you soon

Channel: FilthyRobot

Views: 222,631

Rating: 4.3673129 out of 5

Keywords: Red Hook, Redhook, Darkest, Dungeon, Darkest Dungeon, crimson, court, dlc, Let's, lets, Play, Look, gameplay, HD, pc, vod, video, game, footage, release, official, hints, tips, tricks, guide, howto, how-to, how, Filthy, FilthyRobot, Robot, commentary, english, basic, newby, beginner, newb, novice, help, turn based, turn, based, rogue-like, rogue, horror, lovecraft, lovecraftian, no light, light, season 10, season ten, bosses, shambler, level 5, lvl 5, Stygian, hard, ng+, bloodmoon, classes, ddguide, Leper

Id: a6MlEfXGL9M

Length: 20min 47sec (1247 seconds)

Published: Thu Jul 13 2017

Reddit Comments

[u/[deleted]]

I agree. Great video. I feel that it encapsulates the problems with an otherwise cool class. However, I think the reason for him being "garbage" is that he was designed for a game that no longer exists.

The Leper was an okay class near the start of the game. However, he suffered from four rather substantial indirect nerfs as a result of fundamental changes to game mechanics. He was about average, but previous patches have not been kind to him, and he basically was just slowly outclassed as a result of several unfortunate nerfs due to changes in game mechanics that ended up hurting him because he has very limited targeting, low mobility, and requires careful positioning. This is even more obvious with the release of the Flagellant, who often competes with the Leper for position 1 and 2.

Let's go down the Leper timeline:

• Corpses lowered his power considerably, given his limited target options. This was probably the patch that players started to shy away from the Leper, and the Helion became even more popular due to her ability to hit every rank. A lot of his attacks are often wasted because he can't reach the backline after killing the front 2 enemies without wasting turns clearing corpses. He used to be able to one shot the front 2, then one shot the back two!
• Damage calculation was changed to heavily penalize attacks with negative modifiers. This hurt his primary attack, which hits 2 targets, as he lost a sizable chunk of damage from this change.
• The rise of protection also hurt, given that enemies in rank 1 and 2 often have high protection, and he has no way to either deal with high protection or attack other targets.
• There was a patch where the Leper lost an insane amount of speed (was it like 5 or 6?). I'm guessing this was a thematic change (why would a character in heavy plate attack so quickly), but it really hurt as the Leper went from being able to attack before most enemies to suddenly being really slow without speed trinkets and quirks. Since he already suffers from low accuracy and needs quirks and trinkets to improve his accuracy, he just ends up being much worse than other classes who end up dealing more damage than him, with higher speed, without penalties.
• Out comes the Flagellant, a strong melee character. He was already competing with other strong classes in the roster, most notably the Hellion that is probably a top contender for best character, and now another strong (potentially overpowered) hero) is released.

So basically he does less damage then before, he can't reach the enemies you need to kill, and the enemies that he can hit are harder to kill. To top it off, he is competing in a limited roster with two of the strongest classes, the Hellion and the Flagellant. His advantages over other melee characters are pretty limited. He's self reliant with a stress reduction and a heal, but so is the Crusader, while being able to target others, and the Hellion can remove Bleed and Blight while healing, which very often works out to being a much stronger heal.

He was fine in the pre-corpse, pre-prot world, but now he's just outdated.

The addition of Intimidate went a long way to making him more usable, but honestly, there are very few enemies that require both a damage reduction and a prot reduction, that don't have a large number of actions per turn that destroy debuff and debuff stacking.

It's a shame because thematically the Leper is unique and interesting with a cool backstory. RIP.

---

So how do we fix the leper?

Easy, give Intimidate knockback just like uppercut. Fits thematically (scared enemies move to hide behind allies). Fits game play wise, as it lets you pseudo-shuffle parties to hit priority enemies. Plus move skills are generally not popular, but since this skill already has debuffs it could breathe new life into the meta with more valid group compositions and strategies. It also does so without making the Leper overpowered! Or being overpowered in and of itself.

With that said, Redhook have said that they do not really care about character balance (listen to the GDC talk - they are totally fine with some classes being stronger than others).

[u/Knusperkeks]

Important update for this video.

[u/TheCursedTroll]

I didnt do much hard dunegons yet, but for me the Leper is my favourite class, he has by far the most damage and is a reliable front line clearer. Sure his accuracy sucks, but i feel like he can oneshot almost anybody when he hits. That is for the start of the game obviosuly.

[u/[deleted]]

Turns out he's preeetty good

[u/JitSream]

Leper is quite good for fighting the Shambler on apprentice.