How do you ACTUALLY make builds in Path of Exile? ft. @jungroan

all right so this you're in here with another video and today we're gonna do a mini cast with Jung Ron oh melting oh oh double well if it build crater who really breaks the norm in place builds that people wouldn't normally expect especially while racing Jiang thank you so much for joining me today and for those that don't know Jung is a build creator that does a lot of different stuff so wait we'll start by a little intro to you like what made you get into Path of Exile content creation I think back in ultimatum I was feeling extra toxic one morning and I was on Reddit and just saw someone trying to make a static strike Auto bomber at the time it was during metamorph League actually sorry I was doing metamorph and I was playing a stack strike Auto bomber and it made me real mad that like anyone had uploaded this anyone had said this is remotely good because it was terrible so I ended up clipping like a five minute thing where I just ran through a map of Stack so I got a bomber I didn't upload anything until ultimatum after that but that was like the first film and I was like you know what like why do we get so much garbage in Poe as far as the videos go and builds like why can't we have something nice and so I guess since then I'm always like asking people to like yeah share with me [ __ ] upload stuff like I want to see what's around you're at your normal job you're like a teacher or something right no no student I was just um I was in college for a long time um but I guess when you would have heard that was when they actually let me teach my own course right at University and design it and I'm sure they regret doing that okay something that always like stood out to me a little bit about you is that you play non-meta builds even in races you were doing things that other people weren't doing do you just not enjoy following the meta or you just are you just trying to prove a point like I would love to hear a little bit about your thoughts behind that I think it comes originally from a place of insecurity of if you lose for example like back in the seismic gauntlets if you lost playing seismic then you're already playing the best build and you've lost right but if you play something else and you always have this bad excuse of like oh you know I'm doing something different let's put this way encourage Gauntlet seismic trap one basically right I think yeah um but it wasn't the best build the best build of time was DD ignite but no one was ready for it at the time yeah steel Mage ended up loading up on Inquisitor uh or sorry Templar I loaded this up on Necro it won first place second place that grow Ben afterwards The Gauntlet ends he runs a full blue run through the whole game that was that league and it took us a long time to realize just how broken certain things are I think since then I've had this constant idea in my mind where it's just much easier to copy things but oftentimes there's something more powerful out there so in the most recent event I think blade trap is like severely underrated the numbers were insane and if I just played better I think that would have been the best build my final run was about 20 hours through and I think as long as you're able to break away from the mold of what people deem as appropriate while still knowing what's in the game they have to encounter there's like so many good opportunities for so-called off meta yeah I consider them better builds yeah I would love to know your thoughts on this like how many builds do you think each league are like just undiscovered that are insanely powerful but people just follow what they see is already good what I wouldn't like try number builds everything archetypes and they tend to be the same right so million abusing things corpse abusing things um there's always one bug that's not related yeah and I think if you pick out those three archetypes you'll tend to find like something really broken I think right now the sleepers probably like dark pact um obviously this league doesn't matter everything's just broke in this league right yeah and I saw you made a tweet about talking about how this is the most build diversity out of any league so far well what do you think is the let's say Bone shot or stock what do you think is the best league starter best league starter I I think completely depends what type of player it's for because sometimes it'll be like a build that's incredibly good like uh DD actually was a really good example or I would never have told a new player to play detonate dead right or something explosive Arrow toxic rain that scales by levels so if you end up being 10 levels over level do you get so much power just from that um I would say it would be between toxic rain and explosive art for me right now because there's so little to really understand there's not even anything in the build you can [ __ ] up anymore like Elemental equilibrium doesn't Nerf your damage by half anymore I think they're really good I think I definitely wouldn't even put those in like my top ten but I don't think that's wrong either you know like it's not that I think that the other 10 builds I'm thinking of are better yeah but I don't think they're necessarily worse whereas I think in previous leagues EA was like you know fourth to third to second every single time like oh yeah it's taking a lot of nerves for sure it used to be yeah yeah I think like crawfish juicy Roth as we started this league yeah and and uh I saw a lot of people in Reddit talk about like oh that's Bae that's terrible and but like I was so frustrated because the first 10 seconds of the video is like don't start this if you don't know the game like if you don't know how to scale it and obviously growth is killing with it now yeah until he did the leading cat but thus yeah no I just think that League starts right now it's the first League where I didn't know what the best league started was I think in the past I've at least known like what can progress quickest or top three top four this is like I think one of the range of top 15 top 25 builds yeah no absolutely and you used to play a lot more software right I feel like it's more of a recent thing they were playing more hardcore this is my first hardcore League yeah how how much like does that um change how your approach builds I sometimes wonder how software streamers feel other than me like I think I watched like routine stream a lot right and we get bullied a lot by our chat when we like die when we open our build doesn't do a lot of damage whatever it may be um so in that sense I've always been kind of reluctant to play something that's like really really squishy or really really lacking in some shape or form so the transition hasn't been that much I think the biggest difference is knowing when to sleep and like you know reading text right um how do you feel about it like at least personally I feel a little bit right now like I'm almost pigeonholed on at least most builds into like determination defines banner and Grace on on every build for the start and then maybe later I have some options like maybe get a lightning coil that takes the hate and I can drop determination uh how do you feel about the sort of like defensive options in the game right now yeah there was a discussion recently about the idea that I think the [ __ ] center right the idea that armor and Invasion he thinks are in a good spot but that creates in the term aren't I don't actually agree with that I think determination is pretty heavily overrated right now um especially with molten shell nerves yeah my favorite setup right now is ebm1 as far as early budget game goes my last character that I set up other than the ice Chopper was a trickster which was basically on I just self-catch every gear every piece of gear I really like it I'm other than Crystal mod and that thing was running because as implicit which is not actually gonna be big for you in terms of like anything and then a Fizz has in chess right so just two patroller crafts this could be Foothills farmed um and I don't think I dropped below 70 in my build yet and I've been running everything and that's what I used to farm with ice Chopper and I think that's just if you set up a pool really big I think the most underrated defense of Keystone with the big pool and big evasion is a swing dancer um and that's something that Dan was running last week right he hit like the 40K evasion threshold and started building towards that and since then I think that's been a template for me both Nick and I actually on phase now have all died to like a Golem slime yeah what's armor gonna do for you there well unless you have a unless you have a crazy amount uh I I think I really this league I really want to see if I can get enough gear and and maybe actually Farm out of Mage blood for this for the um the armor stacker with like tectonic stray I can't remember but I like the crystal ball mod for that looks like really cool so you're gonna build it like twin Style tectonic can be played with breakfast right yeah that's I wanted to replica room feather yeah I'm pretty sure that works yeah but there's so many cool things like that like this league like it's really interesting to me because it's so fun and so boring at the same time because it'll leave me honey like I don't have fun engaging with it but it lets me do really cool things yeah I think that's like an interesting thing in terms of thinking about bills right because normally we're thinking about builds well I guess let's put this way my favorite part of Gauntlet is planning a build with a lot of constraints and a goal in mind um usually it's the gameplay and skill that is the gigantic Gap that is not bridged for me but I think that's really interesting and right now we're in a place where this first part of like what are the builds where the options are like infinite but the goal is the hardest things in the game are killing seven Ubers and doing wave 30 and I don't really know what else right and those are so achievable now with Crucible mods and I think like yeah like I guess what are your goals now right if you want to make a power build like that what's your goal for it yeah I I wanted like I've actually never done wave 30 Crucible ever um I have only one stone way of 20. I just like it's actually because I generally never build ailment immune characters it's like me and steel are very different there like uh so shock has killed me single-handedly like eight or nine times I think so I would want to do wave 30 and I actually kind of want to deep delve but keep telling in hardcore it's like yeah I think that's like a fun goal I think in general because of where power is now without really high end content to challenge a build um it's almost as if the tasks of thing about what you want your build to do is the hard part now because I mean your build is crazy that Blaster thing right is like Uganda math set yeah clocking about three to five mil DPS from that range yeah like I already okay it's a little bit of a frustrating build I have like I think right now I have five million damage or something but against one Target and if there are multiple things on screen the damage spreads out so much even with ads it's very very annoying because it it like anticip or it needs to literally hit one target whereas Pathfinder doesn't have that problem because at least one stack of poison is pro-liffing and you're hitting so many targets you're basically getting an overlap so I could see myself like changing the build to a Pathfinder eventually but I don't have a taste of hay I'm playing Pathfinder in hardcore that taste of hate kind of sucks it's a really fun build to play another thing that I saw that I really want to try I was watching a YouTube video on this earlier and it was the uh the totems with um they explode or reflect damage on death that looks so funny oh yeah I think this is a bit I've heard rumors or Brewings that that could be the build to clear versus Ubers yeah oh I could see that it's got so much damage like it's got way more damage than the artillery ballista and the retailerable list is like kind of crazy like that's what I love about Crucible because it's such a fun feeling as a build Creator when you are able to like think like I haven't seen anyone do this but that looks really cool uh and and this thing gives us that more than like ever before yeah I think Innovation this league is definitely going to be really present one of the things I was I guess overpass these in the build creation process is very much iterative um and Bruce mentioned a couple times he has like a bank of knowledge right like a subconscious one where you're always pulling from experiences and different specific builds actually usually with like a certain combination of mechanics that failed or succeed in certain ways and iterating on that when you see a new patch note say like a new Fizz asthma gets had a new damage taken skill bone chatter FR right those were like bad news bills but there was those were using really like has a mechanics prior yeah um but I think with Crucible the auditions were so weird and as opposed to now being like iterative now we're really much more like a we're doing basic research type things right you're restarting everything from scratch the damage scaling specifically is weird now like you can just break so many rules and I think that's fun yeah and like even for for the artillery but list I'm playing right now I have to do so much like literal science like I'm doing like dueling with other players and being like okay now I have seven additional arrows is it going in a longer line how many am I realistically hitting with so like when I actually calculated five million numbers that's actually with the only accounting for each ballista firing three arrows and I fire 11. so I just I really like underestimating my damage um and I don't know if you have this problem I'm currently experiencing it but I end the league playing such a strong character I was playing impending doom and killing all the Ubers that's such a strong character and and before that it was explosive viral and then like start the league and I'm like and I know it says I have four million damage but is this really well 4 million damage feels like and I feel like my build is dumpster so I keep looking at my chat and I'm like this is good right this is fine what are you guys think is this this feels dog [ __ ] to me and it's such a frustrating experience every start of the league well before this league start I didn't play this league start but then before we start I'd done like four different fresh to exact runs like deported to watch some runs and I really know exactly what 650k DPS looks like on a pinnacle boss right now but yeah no I I see what you're talking about in terms of slingshotting back and like rubber banding into something that's much weaker but especially when you're doing a lot of events I think and playing around with a lot of weaker mechanics you're you're just you end up with some absolute [ __ ] sometimes like my last build was black um it's because I don't have enough Solar Products killing but there's a crucible mod for Vortex which gives it 15 bass crit in addition to the six so you start with 20 more percent Base Credit on a spell wow um something like a hit-based Vortex build and my pob DPS if I was to scale solar project calcium at about like 10 million or so um but because I'm missing two nodes it's closer to two um well yeah yeah nonetheless um one thing I wanted to talk about especially in pertaining to defense like obviously lastly we had Eternal damnation from sanctum uh how do you feel about items like that that can almost like make a a slot mandatory or like for a lot of bills like Eternal damnation just became the default amulet slot like do you think that's something that should have gone core or the game would have been better if we still had Eternal damnation I think the removal of it was definitely a good thing the only problem to me is that now we have fourth foul and if we think that armor is the issue rent or one of the big issues in terms of mitigation because of how far it can go with the high ends at the low end I think armor is totally fine um fourth file exempt to based that problem right especially compared with mahu's Autos or Divine flesh yeah and I think defensively right now it's just it's a little scary and I think they're also struggling with it the introduction of suppression was probably where things start to go really downhill um I I think it will get better but at the moment I almost feel personally like it was better when flasks were our main defense because I don't know maybe three years ago Blackburn floss were like were they five or 6K armor Innovation basically if you had a jade a granite and a quartz that was your entire mapping defense and you could just map and then you would choose like a different form of defense for the bosses you would either go like Max res you could end up with some form of block build or you know Transcendence and you would specifically Farm one bus but I feel like now you're like you're just basic defense for everything and for mapping needs to be so much higher than before yeah I think I have to think about that it's what's your anchor League like what do you think about as your base League when you think before because three years ago would have been one two one that was like betrayal and things like that that was like when I feel like defenses were like very more focused on the bosses and that our base defense for mapping was pretty easy like tier 16s weren't that insane rare monsters weren't that insane and something that's changed more recently is I probably started changing with betrayal actually that the league mechanic became miles stronger than the normal content and I think that's like being exacerbated a little bit lately where like now it's starting you're encountering conversible it's like you're in a tier three map feels like you're fighting tier 16 monsters and you're like man I'm not ready for tier 16 monsters right now yeah I wonder why like just on a complete a side I wonder what they're doing there like I don't really understand I guess it's like a bit insane right in terms of how much damage the Goosebump monsters do I really like consistency so like yeah if if like two or 16 maps and stuff was a lot harder or my bosses were a lot harder it's just so disjointed to me when I'm fighting a rare for two or three minutes like it's got like even if it doesn't have life rage and just things like the chaos and wither resist and a few other mods I'm fighting that for two or three minutes I've run up to the map boss and I like I three hit it so and people in my chat were like oh yeah okay we've heard what you're saying map bosses are now nine billion times harder I actually think I would prefer that just because it seems so disjointed right now especially with the map was actually dropping like 10 times the reward of that rare it's just it's very very strange to me I would actually be okay with that in some ways I really don't like it when the damage spikes crazily I think yeah I mean is there something that's happened where I think the biggest damage jump in terms of mapping was Peter exarch whenever that patch dropped the Fizz as modifiers on Jaguars right I mean you know a thing or two about that I know I know several things about that and until that leaves I think it's just weird right almost like in many ways I think when you're setting that up it's the thing that shifted for me I guess on a more tangential note is when I started thinking about what was in the game and different monster texture encountering that in terms of influencing your build the amount of Fizz out stuff in the game is just so spiky right and I think if you're playing your mouth slowly safely and ignoring that then actually opens up a lot more but the moment you have a single one of those mods if people are asking like how do you make a build for like Ultra proofing yeah you can't you can't like unless you're playing a little Invincible Pathfinder Juggernaut how are you gonna tank 300 Fizz as which is gonna equal what is physics chaos here not chaos cap like I don't know 600 700 more yeah no absolutely there there's some crazy mods and it feels like a really good example for me is um if you're killing the eater mobs and you're doing the overwhelm mud on those that's actually pretty manageable because they don't do much fist damage so giving them overwhelm well it seems really scary and I remember steel was talking about this he didn't do it until Ben started saying they have so low base damage that it doesn't matter however if you do Expedition and you do the fist overwhelm 100 you're just gone like I learned that the hard way because I had a champion with like 80k armor took the Physical Realm mod and it was this character gone I was like what happened what mod did I select um and and there's like just a weird creation of what monsters they will let be affected by things in a certain way I just think that's a weird sample right because they've never fixed the scaling on it like shock if you're 100 shock reduction you're a mean to shock except for Expedition yeah which I mean yeah yeah at least you get to choose it's just the game also doesn't do a good way of teaching you what is Super Series I wasn't wondering something in particular just on another no no you you've talked about like or you made a few videos on how to make a build right like how you do that build process yeah um if you're gonna do that again let me make a video but like start to make a build from scratch for like something something that matters like just like a league star or something like that what are you starting with these days generally I start with a skill that I think looks fun because and at the end of the day that's the most important thing I like think of like man I really want to play on my weapon right now and then I think like everything I'm like is there something that I think will make the difference for a while where this is playable again because yeah and then after I've selected like what build I want to play or like what skill I want to build around I'm like okay what ascendancies can you give this the most is this a skill that has a ton of damage like artillery ballista and then I can go champion and build it in a similar way to explosive Arrow because it doesn't get or need as much damage from the ascendancy and I started like building on it like that like one break at a time like what compliments this the most I think for me I start with these days um an abusable mechanic I don't know they start it's gonna be what's like the best based on mechanics so these days it's it was either like this patch of particular it was ebmlm um it was kind of absurd to me this idea if you can figure out the recovery on that and there's like three or four different assembs you can run you can play pretty much any Caster trap or minor in the game so then I could pick my skill afterwards based on that and then you're getting like a 50 Aura you're getting 250 Oris usually because you'll need to preserve any mana and then the extra defenses from that right um and then I think as the league moves on I'm looking for like item grounded mechanics and that tends to be my starting point as opposed to starting with the skill these days but I think like the feeling is what the thing I need to like probably anchor most on and like improve for myself right that makes sense another thing as well sometimes I'll just drop something I think that's something path of excel does that's really well is that it doesn't have Smart loot in the sense of like Diablo 4. so in path of excel you just drop something and be like okay that's crazy like you just drop a 1200 epsx for example right it's a crazy example but that's like honestly what what it does the best I was actually very sad that The Crucible mechanic doesn't drop unique items with Crucible trees because that would like for example there's like a lot of weapons like maybe not a dread Arc or something like the unique hacks but like there are things that if it has a special enough cluster or a crystal tree you would probably think about building around it on ssf but you're never going to like put a sub-tier item in to give it a crucible tree that first vigilance was like the best example right I mean it's a shield but it could be a weapon yeah and like that's basically a weapon yeah actually doesn't do you want to explain the the emperor's vigilance thing to people because there might be a lot of people who aren't familiar with how high energy shield and why why it scales like that when you're crafting a rare modifier sorry when you're crafting a rare item you tend to look for a mix of increase in flat modifiers that give you a large solar power so say you're making a big despotix you need like a big flat Visual and you need a big percent of Israel and then you'll end up with something huge but a lot of unique items have really low base rolls but really really high increase rules so in the case of inverse vigilance is what one thousand percent increased yes and armor yeah so if you have a crystal tree you have 40 flat that's like 400 more es which is absurd and then there's also the explicit modifiers it's everything you'll find on highest these days and that shield now has garnered a lot of notoriety and I think probably isn't the healthiest thing but also opens up that idea of like what if we do this on some weapons right true yeah I wonder I think about the melody thing quite often these days because in terms of like the big defensive unique smelting on its release was the one I remember all you guys had melding setups um in central team one eight yeah all six other players around melding I think or like they did rest swaps and stuff like that yeah but that's just an efficiency thing I think like you're constantly seeing this arms race these days and I'm not really sure to make sense of it right where all the Uber bosses now have an absurd amount of penetration built into them um and you're I think it's one of the other reasons why I don't like the term because it doesn't the the pigeon holding is actually not towards that I think the pigeon holding while mapping is actually towards avoidance and the pigeonline for bossing is just suppression that's per usual yeah suppression's kind of crazy I think they I think they did end up nerfing suppression in a good way though well it's like imagine if they had like Max 90 suppression chance would have been pretty awful um whereas they just made it harder to get which I I think was the play same with diadem they just made it a lot rarer yeah do you know how to spawn item by the way hmm how do you drop the items this league like what's the Restriction it's it's actually um a guy in my chat was doing Foothills Katarina he did one Katarina and he got an item so I he linked me a item level 70 item so it's just a lot rarer now but it can drop from seemingly everywhere all right I mean this is similarious yeah yeah in terms of build making ssf like okay this is another preface from the crib interview right when I was watching that it's obviously cut here but he's talking about like the Restriction types I feel like on ssf though when I gear um someone said there's more build diversity and it's about like Grace in the literal sense of the word I'm not the aura like I think one of the things that's kind of pushed me towards that stuff and watching you continue that stuff this league was you can give yourself a lot more grace when it comes to build making right it doesn't need to be perfect it doesn't need to have every piece pre-planned um and had that's been pretty enjoyable right like that you just mentioned the idea that you're smartly didn't think they're picking stuff off the ground yeah I think that's more because I kind of miss right now yeah I'm playing HD absolutely absolutely are you enjoying playing hardcore trade it's just like the GSF actually uh same names pretty much AC trade I think is ideal to me um playing the league the idea of currency leaving through a lot more means items leaving the whole league through a lot more means the hardcore aspect I think that's really cool yeah I love what trade brings in a casual League we're not pushed to do anything except for what we want and we're just doing two things in Poe right well three things one is getting items off the ground like picking up loot one is making cool items and the other thing is killing monsters and I think when that's your mindset as opposed to racing it makes for a really fun hardcore trade league right because you can get access on the stuff but I just wish more people play if you trade it's fun and I think like people don't get that as much so you don't realize that your decisions matter and alkaiser every time I've ever mentioned software to him says the same thing it's like winning but there's nothing on the line when you do single software and I don't I don't want to push it that far but I do like the fact that there's more meaning in what you're doing in HD trade while still having access to resources I get that I get that the problem for me of playing hardcore trade is that I end up Min maxing the fun out of the game for myself even the last time I played I just like I end up making like thousands are of divine story results or whatever is like the most important thing at the time buying and making a perfect character and then I'm like oh man all right it's not an ssf that's a lot harder to do at least mm-hmm I think it's also harder when the content creation side is put into that yeah um ignoring a lot of the anyone who's ever like done the whole like you know five [ __ ] top things and just makes like lists of compiled starters and things like that I'm like this is ignore those um the content creation Poe is kind of interesting as far as builds go because I think math is like one specific type right we're looking at like a two three four day rotation to build building from scratch levels it re-levels does a new thing and I think like that pattern probably is somewhere in the back of my head where I like like to make builds with that kind of frequency as well on get bored too um but when I'm in hardcore suddenly it's harder to do right my leveling process isn't two and a half hours anymore it's like three ish maybe you have to be a little more careful yeah the resources are much more scarce crafting is harder a lot of it's self-found now there's today I had to Heist I ran maybe like 100 Wings probably of unusual gems I feel that and I've got one of the gems that I needed finally right so I think in terms of content creation sorry I'm doing the same thing with the highest and expedition in the moment and I hate Expedition yeah and I think that's one thing for the AC trade is I haven't done Expedition this week pretty much outside of day one um because I don't want to do it and knowing that other people will do that that's sort of the big benefit to me just be able to skip one or two things um but in terms of the content creation cycle there's so much more I think possible pressure if you wanted to put things out right it's just harder in hardcore and the stakes are high yeah oh for sure that's that's what I love like that things are you lose things you have to make your choices I made a bad choice to sleep with the map I was running yeah I didn't even see the mods I heard about it but uh oh it was so I felt so stupid as well so it was like it was like min max and double extra damage or something and the thing is I even made a mental note I was like I just don't do crystal in the spot I run to the boss and kill it but then the item I was brewing was sells for an assaulted arm and at some point my brain went back into like oh Crucible I should click this and then I was like why am I doing this um so it's just yeah I was tired it was a bad bad choice but yeah I understand completely do you see my last route I think if I don't sleep in the next five minutes I will die I'm not seeing anything on my screen anymore I mean I you should not be talking about a rip a minute ahead of time and it happens it shows no restraint no cell phone control right as a final question John if you could bring back any past path of excel feature or Elite mechanic or anything what would you want to bring back I think for me it's ultimatum um in many ways Poe suffers a lot from bloat and when I talk to power Gamers from other games entering Poe after maybe it's fresh maybe it's after a three four year Hiatus a lot of them are overwhelmed by the bloat um especially not in terms of crafting but more in terms of how you get resources and different ways to acquire that I think ultimatum was the ultimate streamlined mechanic it was killing monsters in a circle other than Stone circles it gave you simple loot selections it gave you simple options it was relatively exciting and fun to engage with unless you had a pro list build um and obviously had the maximum qol of freezing things which for some reason didn't make it introducible I think in many ways it was like the peak of Polish the peak of streamline while not breaking the game the same way that ritual level harvested and for me I think a return to that in some ways would help Poe appeal in a broader sense yeah great answer thank you so much for joining me for this interview and yeah it was a really nice chat yeah it was good talking to you I hope to see you uh come to HC trade soon yeah I might I actually might honestly like it'll be a chance or that'll bring me there it'll be true I will Farm you a thousand ten five thousand I will literally give you five thousand you come oh that's tempting that's tempting but either way everyone make sure you go check out John Ron's content amazing build Creator does really cool stuff and thank you again so much for joining me dude have a good one good luck man

Channel: Zizaran

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Keywords: Zizaran, Ziz, Poe, poe reaction, path of exile, poe ziz, poe 3.20, path of exile 3.21, poe 3.21, poe crucible, crucible league, path of exile crucible, 3.21, ziz 3.21, zizarn 3.21, poe best build, poe pathfinder build, poe toxic rain, toxic rain build guide, poe ranger build, path of exile build, path of exile starter build, zizaran highlights, poe ziz 3.21, ziz highlights, poe jungroan, jungroan, jungroan build, poe jungroan leaguestarter

Id: JjP5muQBJlA

Length: 31min 53sec (1913 seconds)

Published: Mon Apr 17 2023