why Path of Exile hates Melee class

path of XEL one hates melee classes why well I know we touched on this earlier with the fact that everyone is they were all built with different rigs but the amount of because I use the kind of melee The Meta build websites and it's always range stuff magic stuff totem stuff it is difficult to play the game when you need to get close to the boss and the boss has a massive amount of things to either prevent you getting close to them or AOE how are you going to make melee was I've got I've got about five answers to this question go for it man I'll have all five so one of them is the rig thing it is just harder for us to make melee skills than not melee skills because melee skills require animating rigs that the animators literally hate like they are like do not make me make an animation on this dumb old rig like they are actually they're actually like that like it really is like they do not want to do it and they are awful compared to Modern rigs in like a ton of ways they're just very hard to use they take so not only do they take 10 times longer to make it animation on them but then you have to make seven more copies of it for every class anyone who wasn't here in the chat earlier every class in path of Exar one has a different rig for the character model which effectively increases the amount of work you need to do by seven because if you were to make an animation of one rig doing it it wouldn't be able to be immediately copied and transferred to all the others it needs to be redone which was one of the reasons that path of Exel 2 said hey we're going to do it differently how will path ex 2 do it slightly differently or again are the characters all different R so one thing so one thing we've got is we've got one rig for all humanoid characters and P2 now um and then we've got a way to be able to adjust those rigs for body shapes to make it so that we can do but the point is the animation is transferable if you make an animation on one you transfer it over you might have to do a tweak or two but that's it um whereas in pee 1 the Templar is Left-Handed what an annoying decision like even just that is likey it just immediately means that that animation now just cannot be used okay brilliant yep so even if you could move it over there'd still be a process of flipping it effectively yes exactly so there things like that that go on um there's uh funny enough did we actually make the Tempa left-handed in pee2 to with some tricks I can't remember now I can't remember we might have anyway uh side note um so that's like that's thing so yes that one in pe2 fixes that just because um yeah the animations obviously the rigs are just way better with it's it's night and day like you know the what what the animators have to do they're so much faster um uh the other actually there was another multiplying factor I didn't even mention which is that in poe1 most melee skills can be used by most weapon classes and that means that once again you still have to make the skill again again for all of the different weapon types which is another multiplier uh on top of it as well um so therefore pretty much the uh when making a melee skill there's pretty much the only option for the designers is you have to use an existing Mele the animation that we have already so that already just limits significantly the ability to design M skills in pee1 just like completely just kicks it out kicks kicks out the the feet out out from under you right there uh especially given how crap the animations are um from from from from back in the day from from from that so you've got that um another detail that's important is that um there are too many things in meay in um pee1 that are multiplying factors that you have to know to do um that improve the amount of damage that you're doing um for melee and don't feel like M for whatever that might mean these be things like to ex exactly right so a totem is an example it doubles your damage effectively and you just have to pick it because if you didn't pick it um then you don't have double damage and you just have to know that right so that's just a straight up Noob trap now um this is actually a uh somewhat hard problem to solve because um you want to have the ability okay like how can totems in path of XL 2 exist is a question right like how can they I mean sure we can remove the like bonus damage that they just give you for no apparent reason um so that um but then but but we how do you have a game where a melee class can create a totem that effectively is a complete independent entity from you that attacks things and you don't have to be near it because that's a straight up damage multiplication multiplier right um how can we have that exist and yet not everyone has to pick it and the answer is that you have to have lots and lots of things and the trade-off is not so much do I pick a multiplying force or don't I it's which of the 30 things I could pick am I picking depending on what I want to enjoy right um and that all comes back down to the way that the skill system and Path of Exile um uh two Works versus one where you know like you can like the limiting factor on the number of multipliers you have is the number of slots like gem slots you have cuz all of them can be six links and so on like there's a whole thing going on with that that just makes it the case so you can have totems and too because sure it may increase your damage by a lot but then there's also tons of other stuff you could pick that also increase your damage by a lot so it doesn't become such a important choice anymore um and um so pee one just has several of these there's also things like um God I'm terrible with names um what's that y uh the yellow star that goes beneath your feet that makes you resistant to damage people in the chat will know what you're on about yeah people know what I'm talking about that thing right so for example like that's important to have on your character somewhere there's a thing like that if you don't have it then your defenses have a thousand people saying fortify right now so I'm assuming that's the one fortify fortify for I'm by the way just as a thing to know about me I'm terrible with names like like just completely in fact um every time like we have a meeting Chris just tells me some fact about the person that's about to walk in the door that I can attach my understanding of who they are to like I don't remember their name but I know who they are you know what I mean so he's always like oh he's the guy who and then just adds a piece of information and that's how I actually remember Nam so just names just fall out of my head otherwise cool that's fine so anyway random detail uh so anyway fortify is an another example of that so we actually made a list of these recently um I was with Mark and okay what are the multiplying things that a melee build must have to work um and which of these things feel like Mele and which don't and we can't in pee1 have the solution of having just lots of multiplying forces because it would require making more skills than we can really make or else just um that we run into problems with the skill system because of the way that you can't six link every uh gy that you have and so on like just those kinds of issues and um so in pee1 we have to have a different solution which might involve like uh changing it so that like you know this is not a thing that makes sense to do anymore or that we specifically split the build so that um you can't use this you know this mechanic doesn't work very well with mechan with with normal melee or something like that like I don't have an actual answer for what exactly is going to happen but like there are things that we want to do there but in pee2 we don't have that particular problem uh because um yeah the um uh the uh yeah because because we got so many multiplying factors and it's like intention is that you have that that that is that issue solved in my opinion so what else do we have so melee is going to be good I like the fact that in the chat right now we've got people saying that this is now the reason that when Chris Wilson walks out on stage he says Ah hi I'm Chris Wilson from grinding gear games because you're then sat the audience going that's who you are knew it I know that guy now I was worried now I know who that is for sure so Jonathan continue telling us about how Mele class is going to work in Path of Exile 2 and how it's going to be good all right so the next one is um moving um moving while uh doing melee um is something that path of XL1 could just not support for a variety of um for a variety of kind of complicated internal reasons relating to once again all the rigs and blah blah BL and all that technical stuff but ultimately in PE we2 what we have is um a thing called um Step attack and what that is is is that we have a different animation that plays when you're a bit further away from the monster versus when you're close to the monster and what that means is is when you do an attack some of the attack time that you would have used like like rather than arriving at the monster and then doing the attack you can do the attack from further back and it still takes the same amount of time as it would have taken if you were standing next to them and that means that you that every single attack has less close time than it would appear to have like you can U and so it just feels like the attack is um a little bit faster than it otherwise would be um but in particular like you know the the portion of the screen on which you can do a melee attack is larger when you start it um and so that is an important reason now this actually varies quite significantly for the monk some of the skills have absurd distances and like you know with the most being like you know that Palm strike where you can go from half a screen away you can just like Melee straight into them and you just like just slide up to them and attack them it feels good as it's a palm strike um but every skill has some degree of that and so that improves um melee very significantly over um what pe1 has not something we could do in pe1 cuz the animation time would be impossible um and uh that that I think is actually by the way one one of the reasons why wsd does work in pee 1 and sorry in pee2 and didn't work in Pagan online uh because um that that that that element um there's a fluidity to the feeling of moving around where you kind of blend nicely from like I'm controlling my character to like my character kind of gets to the right place um and uh yet it doesn't take extra time so that's kind of important and uh then the other thing another thing that we've done is um all the targeting stuff so uh basically uh in general you don't really lose control of your character um anymore um that is something that allows you to have longer attack times while not feeling bad um in Poe one all attacks must be ultra short because if they're not you feel like your character is locked in and you can't do anything um and that feels garbage um so you can significantly increase attack times if you are willing to let the character reposition retarget and also cancel using DOD draw so like that stuff there just immediately does that now there was something you did say earlier which I actually don't agree with by the way about um being having to be close to bosses to do melee being close to a boss is actually usually more safe than being further away and that's because the uh amount of distance you have to move to change the relative position and angle to the boss is lower um you can get to a 90° offset from the boss from where you were with a very short move when you're in melee but a very long move when you're in um ranged so effectively when there are attacks that hit arcs those attacks are more dangerous for range than they are for melee and and so effectively so long as bosses have um the correct number of attacks of the different types um you will find that um melee and range are actually relatively balanced and the distance to the Target um turns out to be one of the least important balancing factors for melee once you've uh make sure that you get the balance of skills correct so um it might seem like uh for example that range characters should do less damage than a Melee character um but actually um that is not so much the case and we found that if you make ranged characters uh weak um like not like have a different amount of relative DPS compared to melee characters um then the range characters just feel bad and um that is a problem uh so uh and if but whereas if you make the melee characters do too much damage that also feels bad overkilling everything and kind of just makes the game feel like a walkout so um yeah like uh the damage uh the distance thing is actually surprisingly despite the name the least important thing about melee okay uh which yeah I find to be got but but that being said you do have to have that closing element you know to to make it work um but uh yeah that that's kind of where we're at with that so I think that probably covers a lot of things I'm sure there are probably like half a dozen more random things about melee that make it better but those are certainly some of them and some of the big ones I would say um so uh yeah were there any other sorry in that list you had earlier about issues with melee were there any others that I didn't address in that I'll probably think of some as I think of them I'll just let you know again but I think what you've mainly touched on is the fact that melee is going to be very much improved moved by an improved movement system and the fact that you guys won't need to develop seven different animations whenever you decid to do something yeah yeah

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Id: tUQzrt0fF3g

Length: 12min 10sec (730 seconds)

Published: Sun Apr 21 2024