How Do We Hear from God Session 2: THE DANGERS OF MYSTICISM--UNBIBLICAL TECHNIQUES TO CONTACT GOD

the first hour I laid out the truth of in other words how God does speak to us and I made it very clear so that everybody could understand how God has spoken and the terms of the New Covenant and so on now the second hour we're going to look at the flipside the issue I'm from the other side in other words the problem with divination what does it look like it how is it showing up in the church so the title is the untain Jers of unbiblical techniques to contact God will start with Romans 1:16 I'm going to start with the gospel now toward the end of the last session we were talking about how Jesus assited seated at the right hand of God in heaven the pulse is this for I'm not ashamed of the gospel for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes to the Jew first and also the Greek so how do we come to God we come to God through the gospel of Jesus Christ one of the big lies in our culture one of the lies that we are being told on popular talk shows is that all paths lead to God have you heard that what into the spirituality the basic spirituality of the United States of America if you can judge it by looking at the again the talk shows and the popular authors is pluralism that it's considered a very very bad thing to tell somebody that their religion is wrong that everybody is right and nobody's wrong and people talk about being spiritual nowadays okay what a spiritual mean anymore spiritual means whatever you want it to be that means you're probably going to be a guest on Oprah's show oh I'm spiritual all hands lead to God no you know this but we need to reiterate it the Bible says that that's false that the only saving path to God is through the gospel of Jesus Christ that I shared with you the smarting and Paul is not ashamed of it and this would bother him that some people reject it because most people do that it doesn't seem like the kind of wisdom the world's looking for but it's the plan that God has for salvation again to reiterate something we said this morning Hebrews 10 12 but he having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time sat down at the right hand of God so I won't spend a lot of time on that because we covered it's morning but I want to reset the stage Colossians 3 and verse 1 if you if then you have been raised up with Christ keep seeking the things above where Christ is seated at the right hand of God now I'm going somewhere with this I'm going to show you I'm going to show you in from this different writings that people are teaching a journey inward they're seeing if you want to find God go in go inside if I got inside yourself the Bible says look up not down or in cave John 16:7 and II but I tell you the truth it is to your advantage that I go away for if I do not go away the helper shall not come to you but if I go I will send him to you and he when he comes will convict the world concerning sin righteousness and judgment so Jesus was warned telling the disciples he's going to go away and they had a hard time receiving that or believing that because they they had the comfort of Jesus physically present with them but he said it's to your advantage because then I will send the Holy Spirit the Holy Spirit is going to convict us in the Holy Spirit is going to convict us about the truth of the gospel is going to regenerate those who believe he regenerates us and we know God and God indwells us by his Spirit okay now I want to show you something look at Romans 8 and verse 9 the Bible uses what we call synonymous parallelism and here are some synonymously parallel statements and I have a reason for showing you this Romans 8:9 however you are not in the flesh but in the spirit if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you but anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ he does not belong to him and I think the next verse Tim and if Christ is in you though the body is dead because of sin yet the Spirit is alive because of righteousness now why am I telling you this notice the spirit and I got these highlighted in red on the slide the Spirit of God the spirit of christ and then Christ in you these are all speaking about one thing that three or four so when we talk about Christ in you Montano niall that Jesus bodily is sent into heaven and sits at the right hand of God it's talking about having the Holy Spirit do you see that there that's very very important now here's where I'm going with this because some people are saying that if you want to find Christ or find the kingdom of God you've got to do a journey inward and that's their justification or mysticism they want to have this inward journey now I was debating actually when I was wrote an article about this about three or four years ago a fellow that I used to know many years ago who was a Christian mystic called me to debate and it was friendly he's a nice fellow but he called me and he said I don't agree with your writings against mysticism because I believe in that sort of approach myself and I said okay what's the problem he says while you are using this up and down and in and out but actually these are geographic terms that don't reply to the spirit world okay in other words if we point straight up we don't know where in the universe we're pointing as we spin around in the galaxies and stuff and heaven is a realm and so you don't know that heavens up and and so your terminology just doesn't work and so here's my answer to his concern the terminology was chosen by God for a reason it's not that God doesn't understand the realities of his own universe in space and geography and relativity and everything else there is to be known but he's speaking to us in terms the way he wants us to understand now the reason he says look up because that's how he wants to describe himself as being transcendent about beyond his own creation see the popular religions today even Christian religion is either pantheism arpaia n theism God is everything or God is in everything and these terms that were chosen by the Holy Spirit who inspired the biblical writers to say that Jesus ascended and he seated at the right hand of the Majesty on high is to convey to us an important theological truth and that is of God's transcendence now when it talks about Christ in you well we we know that God is omnipresent alright so I understand that being into all the Holy Spirit is not confining the Holy Spirit spatially but it's speaking of a relational thing this one that we have a relation with you the relationship with God but we need to preserve the biblical terminology because it's there for a reason and the Mystics are wanting to get rid of it because they have an agenda they don't want to be thinking about any transcendent God who is above and they want God to be more only imminent and not transcendent so that's why I'm going to consist on this terminology because it is biblical turnit terminology so therefore we do not look inside to find what is good we don't go on a journey inward because it says they're almost 7:18 for I know that nothing good dwells in me that is in my flesh never in the Bible is prayer described as a journey to the inner person or into the person's own psyche or spirit okay and if we want to spend a lot of time doing introspection yeah we should examine ourselves to see whether we're in the faith that's what it says in the Bible okay but spending a lot of time trying to get in touch with your true inner child as some people would call it or the inner self it's really bad thing and fact Paul said I know that in my flesh Baal is no good thing and here's what Matthew says about the heart of man out of the heart come evil thoughts murders adulteries fornications thefts false witness slanders in fact if we spend enough time getting in touch with our true self we'll get very depressed okay and somebody was you know that this idea that you got to find the inner child and I said to one guy and it was talking like that I said well if you find the inner child I'll tell you it's a rebellious brat because of the sin nature what we need is forgiveness and cleansing we need to blood of Jesus to cleanse our hearts and our conscience from the inside out the Christian conception of Prayer is looking upward not inward then pray in this way our Father who is in heaven holy is your name that's confessing the transcendence of God that's a doctrine as being lost in this postmodern age there's no room anymore for transcendence but there is but it but it's a biblical doctrine the transcendence of God so we pray to our Father who's in heaven now let me show what Christian mystics actually teach all right now some of these are from some years ago but let me tell you what my research has shown mystics whether they're from 1940s 1950s now 1960s 1970s 80's 90's or our own decade are all teaching the same thing I did a research on this I went down to the seminary library and got piles of books from Christian mystics a few years ago when I had more time than I do now and I read those books and this lecture was sort of the result of that reading the I found that they all say the same thing it didn't matter when they said they'd say the same thing and I'll show you what the Mystics are saying here's one that you may have heard of if you're old as I am remember when Jimmy Carter was president well this is his sister Jimmy Carter's sister was a Christian mystic Ruth Carter Stapleton here's what she says the concentrated mind is is more amazing it can become a vehicle for communicating with the core of our being which Jesus called the kingdom of God with him now we're gonna talk about that but you see what's going on here to see why I told you about Jesus seated at the right hand of God and our Father in Heaven because these people are gonna say you find the kingdom by going on a journey inward we've got to get in touch with the core of our being in order to progress let me quote another one egg is Sandford she she's the modern-day inventor of what's called inner healing and I wrote an article about her teachings some I don't know how many months or years ago it was but I have one on our website CIC ministry org and where I survey the teachings of Agnes Stanford and this whole idea of inner healing but here's what she taught this is from 1947 with what the book was originally published by Macmillan and then charisma the charismatic movement picked it up and republished it later that's the version I have the kingdom of God is within you said Jesus and it is an indwelling light the secret place of the consciousness of the Most High that is the Kingdom of Heaven in his present manifestation of Earth so now according to Sandford Agnes Sanford and Ruth Carter Stapleton the kingdom's within and so she's talking about this in terms of consciousness of the most high so now we're getting terminology that's getting further and further from biblical Christianity okay this cosmic consciousness that Carl Jung talked about or the the the psychic connection that he claimed people have with everything else and this is very very popular today I've been reading material that's current that says the same thing okay Martin Kelsey I'll tell you a little bit of body but first let me quote Kelsey then I'll tell you who he is and why he's significant it says what meditation does does mean is a way for us to unlock and open the door to the kingdom of heaven Jesus began his ministry by proclaiming that his holy kingdom was within us and among us now there's only one verse that that even comes close to saying that and it only says that if you miss translated miss apply it and I'll show you that in a moment but let me tell you about Kelsey so now you notice mystic mystic mystic they're all saying the same thing the kingdom of God is within there's only one verse and that in the King James that says that so why are they all grasping on that and this wasn't how Jesus began his ministry that's a misinterpretation he began his ministry and Mark by saying the kingdom of God is at hand at hand repent and believe in the gospel that's how he began and he didn't say well take a journey inward and there you'll find me he didn't say that okay now who's this Martin Kelsie Martin Kelsie I think was a pisco pelean and he was a Jungian psychologist and he used to teach at Notre Dame and after I wrote an article about Kelsey some years ago I received a phone call from a man who had been Kelsey student at Notre Dame Kelsey actually knew Carl young the psychologist it was a mystic and Kelsey taught mysticism unabashed mysticism and the man who called me said your article is absolutely accurate about what Kelsey taught because I study under him and fortunately the man who called me didn't believe what Kelsey was teaching sometimes you'd get stuck under a professor you don't agree with has anybody ever had that happen anybody ever been to college then yeah that happened now he so he says that the kingdom's within so what this is doing what these people are teaching is they're looking for a way to bring Eastern religion into Christianity and we're normally what you wouldn't find it and their method for doing so is by latching on this idea of an inner kingdom or an indwelling Christ or Christ consciousness and then having posited that idea then it only makes sense if you're gonna find the kingdom you got a journey inward all right now let's look at that idea of from Luke here's the passage that these three mystics quoted about the kingdom being within now having been questioned by the Pharisees as to when the kingdom of God was coming he answered them and said the kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed nor will they say look here it is or there it is for me all the kingdom is in your midst now the King James said within the Greek can be translated either way so the context has to determine the meaning first of all who was Jesus speaking to Pharisees okay so if he is teaching them that the kingdom is within you then he has to be teaching that this is universally true for all people because if it was true for the enemies of Jesus it has to be true for anybody okay so I think there's an unacceptable trepidation in us incorrect now I having studied this now because I'm studying Luke acts and preaching through Luke accent in our church here I have become better at narrative interpretation I've got some better tools that I used to have and I can categorically say now that the kingdom within is a false teaching because that's not how us understand stood in Luke in Luke ax men enter the kingdom kingdom doesn't enter men in fact my farmer a pistol mount or not excuse me hermeneutics teacher dr. Bob Stein is a commentary on Luke he makes that very point I've made it before myself the kingdom something that you have to repent in order to enter and you'd become a citizen of the kingdom of the kingdom isn't established on the earth until Christ returns okay so the kingdom within is only found in one verse and then only if it's certain translations and then only if you take it out of context so this whole Christian mysticism is built on a very very flimsy foundation of believing that there's this inward journey that's necessary because of the kingdom being inside the person and therefore it doesn't it's really not a biblical concept at all they don't have any grounds for it now let's go on now see what these guys are saying here's this Martin Kelsey learning to deal with the dangers within the spiritual world is one part of the preparation I'm talking about those who enter this realm then are much like a soldier at night trying to avoid a stalking enemy Norton Kelsey all right now I don't know about you but I'm thinking so why would you do this okay even the Christian mystics say that it's dangerous so you're going into a spirit realm where you don't really you can't see your way around because he says you're at night you can't see this is back he was writing back before they had those night-vision goggles they hadn't been invented and so you're sitting out there at night and you're in you're in you're in a place of where there's enemies and dangers and you're groping around in the dark and that's a very good analogy of a human being going into the spirit world it's a very good analogy but he thinks it's worth it all right he thinks is worth it now I've told people this many times the spirit realm is dangerous these spirits are very good at what they do they're able to appear as angels of light they can come by the name Jesus there's no patent on that name that keeps spirits from using it in fact it talked about Paul talks about another Jesus all right so they could be a spirit being with names they and these things are deceptive they don't come most of the time to terrify people but to deceive them into thinking they're good spirits so that will make friends with them that's what a familiar spirit is as a spirit you made friends with and and so this is a exceedingly dangerous that's why God doesn't require us to go there to find him that's why it in the first hour God sent his son in the flesh Jesus Christ come in the flesh to talk to us so Anand did signs and to show that he was truly God predicted his own resurrection from the dead and so by coming that way tangibly we knew God in the flesh we saw his glory he didn't just come and teach people how to go into the spirit world in order to grope around and try to find God now Richard foster maybe you recognize his name he's of these books I'll give one image of I didn't put it on every slide but here's his book celebration of discipline this was from 1977 or 78 and I have the original this this book is a original so I got when I get my heresy I'd like to get first edition alright here's the here's here's what he says what's foster saying we are not calling on some cosmic bellhop this is a serious and even dangerous business so why is he teaching people to go in his inward journey Richard foster now is still around he's a Quaker and it doesn't shock me there is richard Foster has Quaker theology Quaker theology going way back had to do with this inner light in personal revelations but for hundreds of years they believed that okay but what's shocking is that he brought this stuff into the evangelical church back in the 70s and most of the church is open their doors wide open said all right bring it in this is a considered a class this is considered a devotional classic and taught by a Quaker who believes in mysticism and a journey into the inward part of the person we'll be looking at this again here's another section from celebration of discipline 1st edition page 23 dreams can be a key to unlocking the door to the inner world at the same time it is wise to pray a prayer of protection since to open ourselves to spiritual influence can be dangerous as well as profitable now is that how God leads his own flock does does God say you got to go there you got to go into this world and you might get shot down in there but you might find something good no he Oh every good and perfect gift comes from above remember above again above not not within ok every good and perfect gift comes from about so this is a common belief by the way when I did his research and I read all the books by the Mystics it comes off out of this depth psychology as well and and Jung had this idea is that dreams are kind of a natural doorway into the spirit world ok so dream interpretation is based on the idea that dreams are some sort of information coming out of whatever you conceived to be there the unconscious mind the cosmic unconscious the collective unconscious or the the new-age version of sort of the cosmic mind of the universe that we're all interconnected with all of these ideas are based or take the idea the dreams connect us to that spirit world and that one can learn how to interpret dreams and end up with information that could be useful to you whether for therapy or some spiritual journey richard foster says it's dangerous so being how is dangerous and fraught with evil but these people feel that they need to go there they had to come up with some safety devices and the main one that they posit is spiritual guides fear directors or spiritual masters you you'll hear it said all three ways could be a spiritual director that's the most popular one nowadays but Kelsey also talked about spiritual masters and this idea is borrowed from the Eastern religion okay because in the East where mysticism has been a way of life for thousands of years they have gurus or spiritual masters now the reason is that you can't see the spirit world God did not equip us to be spirit beings floating around the spirit world he gave us five physical senses and a rational mind okay and so because you can't see what's going on in the spirit world you can't just it's just not obvious it's not obvious what the deal is so these gurus are more experienced with getting into altered state of consciousness or to an altered state of conscious to get material from the spirit world getting into their alpha level or the right brain hemisphere or whatever they say and because they're better at it and they're better at hearing these spheres speak to them if they do this long enough they become spiritual directors or guides and you need to have two or three of them or at least one really good one and then you say okay I went into my alpha state and when I got there I heard the spirits say this and then they decide whether you're getting it right or not here is Morton Kelsey encounter with God that book by the way Kelsey is obviously heretical and I've read three of his books and they're they're just a religious version of Jungian psychology see a book they're that book was published in Minneapolis in the early seventies by Bethany fellowship right here in town so of Christian publishers are bringing unmitigated wicked perverse doctrine and is selling it to Christians and what that was being sold to charismatic so that that's how I haven't because somebody had donated it and it's been around so what does encounter with God say quote indeed I would suggest that everyone who was serious about relating to the spiritual realm find himself a spiritual director if there were more mem trained and experienced this way well he's saying that thirty forty years ago now there are more trained there's a whole Institute's where they have spiritual directors for Christians and they're the line in this when you get into this world dear once the line between the New Age and Christianity is totally blurred you just don't see a lot of boundaries here let's see what foster richard foster and celebration of discipline says about spiritual directors quote in the middle age is not even the greatest scenes attempted the depths notice what he calls it the depths of the inward journey without the help of a spiritual director today the concept is hardly understood let alone practice except in the Catholic monastic system okay so poor us we're missing out the the the Catholics have all the goodies they got the the gift of monastic said they got the people that are trained at asceticism and mysticism and they got people to guide them in the journey and so in the 70s both Kelsey and foster are lamenting the lack of monastics or spiritual directors well if they don't have to lament anymore they're everywhere okay this has flooded the evangelical church and it's not hard to find a spiritual director nowadays they're being trained in many many locations but dear ones the only difference between this and psychics is terminology Richard foster page 160 he the spiritual director is the means of God to open the path to the inward teaching of the Holy Spirit he leads oh listen to this he leads only by the force of his own personal holiness what who would even dare say they had so much own personal holiness that they could tell somebody else about their inner being and a journey inward there this is Scholes right there you total lack of understanding of the biblical doctrine of holiness and I'll talk about that tomorrow in my sermon by the way I'm going to will be talking about sanctification so you can see what the biblical doctrine is but that's what we need a real holy man well that's just describing what the east' calls gurus holy man like the Dalai Lama who are more experienced that can help us in our way now Richard Foster has a thing now called Renault vari and this comes right in the mainstream evangelical churches has been here in the Twin Cities they have a Renault vari Study Bible that he does with Eugene Peterson and this heretic 'el ungodly the Quaker teaching that troubles are a country for them since our inception is broadened evangelicalism that's what's shocking me why how did this get in the door and how does nobody see there's a problem well some people did but they're considered people of bad attitudes honestly we're told we have a bad attitude if we disagree with the Mystics this isn't about attitude is about doctrine richard foster may be a very kind godly gentleman as far as his external demeanor but as far as his doctrine he's a wolf and she's clothing Ruth Carter Stapleton let's see what she says because as human beings we need silence do we let's go back think about it we need silence because are noisy Christianity tends to ignore that need into the void has rushed a variety of Eastern meditative disciplines there's no need to argue against such disciplines there's not what we need is to discover the authentic native Christian expression of meditation which makes all the other disciplines unnecessary no there's no authentic Kris mysticism what we need to do is to well I spoke about it in this morning's session the first session this morning we need to go to the throne of grace to find mercy and grace to help in time of need that's what we need we don't need a Christian guru or Christian mask spiritual master or a monastic leader or a psychic or a Christian any of these things I noticed many times that the argument that that people who would justify these practices put forth is that all the other practices out there are the counterfeit so if there's a counterfeit there must be a real have you heard that argument so then the result there must be a real okay they have tarot cards so there's no so what's the Christian version I don't know we're gonna put cards of Bible verses and flip them up and then see if they have a secret meaning yeah let me let me talk about that you can't add meaning to the Bible by some practice the Bible means what it says that a meanings locked in forever by the biblical writers I just had a little dialogue going didn't last very long with a guy who's somewhat well-known who was a very nice fellow and so he's willing to talk by email I emailed back and I I said okay let me tell you what I disagree what there you that you teach I disagree with prayer prayer labyrinths labyrinths and lectio divina that's what I told him these things are wrong so eat me I'll be back and he said well the only one prayer labyrinth I have our time pronouncing that right that that he that I was on when we got to the center of it you know what those little prints are you going and you get to the middle you're supposed to be closer to God well he got to the middle and there was a Bible there and he could pick it up and he said so what how's that wrong and here's what I said here's what's wrong because it implies that the Bible means something different when it's in the middle of a prayer labyrinth that it means if you were reading it at Starbucks okay in other words you're enhancing the Bible some way by sticking it in the middle of labyrinth and walking your way to the Tula and I said in a matter-of-fact the Bible always means what it means it doesn't change I heard a saying about this in here so many Spurgeon sayings like he had vouched for his authenticity but if but here's the saying I heard somebody told Spurgeon that he'd been reading the Bible for forty years on his knees and he never found that the doctrine of election in there even was and so obscure j'en says well why don't you try reading at a desk and give it another shot sit at a desk and and read more slowly and maybe you'll see it there somewhere so you hear people say that I've been reading the Bible on my knees well what they're implying is that if you're more reverent or something the Bible has a different meaning than if you just sit at let's say in a seminary library and study it the meaning does not change ever God's Word is settled and fixed so what we need is a means to understand it and so this idea that we have some meditation that's going to tell us something I don't buy that now let's talk about altered states of consciousness and I'll talk these are literally being promoted by Christians who are even willing to call them what they are amazing to me but Christians teach going into altered states I'm going to call Kelsey again basic technique involves meditation in the modified lotus position so familiar in the east along with concentration on a colon or seemingly meaningless question that brings the person's conscious mind to a halt let me stop there call on meaningless question when I was at seminary in the 90s and I was reading all kinds of different theology including stuff that is tilted toward Eastern thinking in one of those books they said something like this would be the sound of one hand clapping you heard it yet now don't why do they do that why do they do that because they're trying to make your mind because you can't really think about it so your mind zones out it's just a technique to get into an altered state of consciousness or get into your alpha brain level wave levels okay so bring your conscious mind to a halt this and various other elements of this discipline are described by William Johnston in Christian Zen can anybody see oxymoron which is an excellent introduction to the subject so Christians in now you might say well this is an extreme idea well yes it's extreme but Kelsey is published by evangelical presses and sold to Christians look at Kelsey again altered states and he comes right out and tells you alpha and sometimes theta waves are produced and in both these states the capacity of the mind changes these can include psychic gifts these capacities various psychic abilities are often found among Hindu gurus and masters or anyone who uses deep meditation as well as among Christian saints all right let me let me tell you what's going on here the reason that people want to get into an alpha or theta alpha level would be by the way when you sleep you get into alpha level and that's in your dream and what-have-you okay so that's why it some just say do dream interpretation because then you don't have to learn a special technique you just try to remember what you dream when you were in naturally in an alpha level or deeper into a theater level and if you get into deep sleep course you're not remembering anything right but these are more like hypnosis techniques and that's what what this all about in other words give somebody purposely while they're awake get them into that alpha level and then they get information from the spirit world that they can interact with then hear the voice of the spirits and that's the reason for the older state of consciousness now why why is this dangerous well because this realm as these guys who teach it say is indeed dangerous and it's not how God told us he was going to speak to us the reason is that people are lusting to hear more from God they think God is going to honor these techniques and they want to hear from him and frankly we're not we don't in a normal state of consciousness I don't hear voices good and some people do because they have mental problems and in it and they seek to be cured of that condition but it's not a normal condition and God doesn't want us to get into that condition for the sake of hearing his voice he spoke to us through his ordained apostles and prophets all right but people are gusting for the experience so they learn through whether it's yoga or some meditative technique to get into this and the people that are purveying this admit it's basically the same thing as the Eastern religion now Kelsea again when we are clear enough about our own point of view we can find help in the methods of Eastern Christianity or in the ways of the Far East perhaps by consulting the I Ching or through the mandala contemplation or we might even find help in the ways of shamanism or Islam wherever every the dojo doors are flung wide open anything you find that's going to help you get into the journey inward in an altered state it's all fair game now I do know why I'm calling this Christian divination because that's exactly what it is in the first session I gave a definition of divination as being at any technique do you use to contact the spirit world and so what we have here are people that teach divination to Christians and according to what we saw this morning in Deuteronomy 18 this is an altar to listening to God is an alternative to listening to God's ordained mediator Moses and Jesus and the apostles and prophets that's who has spoken for God God came and spoke face-to-face with Moses he didn't teach Moses a technique for divination Jesus came and spoke face-to-face to his disciples he didn't teach them a technique to do divination and the ones who did speak with God objectively wrote a book and it's called the Bible all right now breathing exercises you know there's a lot of ways to get into dollar state and one of them is focusing on your own breathing Richard foster teaches this inhale deeply slowly killing your head back as far as it will go I see some of you are already doing that oh never mind as it reflects more on me than on you okay inhale deeply slowly tilting your head back as far as it will go then exhale allowing your head slowly to come forward until your chin nearly rests on your chest do this for several moments praying inwardly something like this Lord I exhale my fear over my geometry exam I inhale your peace with the bed and with the God I exhale my spiritual apathy I inhale your light and life do you find the light of God by a breathing technique no this is divination how about hearing God's voice Ruth Carter Stapleton experience of inner healing where you have been unwilling through ignorance to live in the light of silence have lost the ability to exercise that divinely bestowed sixth sense which enables us to listen in meditation to the voiceless voice of God I wonder if that voiceless voice is also the same as the sound of one hand clapping voiceless voice but okay I'm making a claim that all of these teachings are transgressing boundaries that God has drawn for us for our own good God isn't just being strict I wrote an article about this some years ago and I'd had quite recently before that article debated with somebody and here's what the person said to me you are putting God in a box have you heard that now you're putting God in a box and so my response was no that's not the way it works I'm not putting God in a box God's putting us in a sheepfold see the boundaries are drawn by God for us so the box isn't the box is a sheep fault I'm thinking this from John chapter 10 and God puts us in the Sheep fault and he guards the door of it so that the wolves don't get us and said then Jesus said have you come to him that you'll go in and out and have pasture and he's going to guard you from the wolves because he's a Good Shepherd lays down his life for the Sheep and and if you think having Jesus as your good shepherd guarding you from the wolves as being in a box and too restrictive then you've got some real problems with Christianity okay God draws these boundaries because outside what's outside though though enemies the wolves the things would damage us God loves us and any and he's paid of the price to save you by shedding his blood and he's your shepherd and he's going keep you inside of the sheep fold and by the way when it says my sheep know my voice it doesn't mean they're getting new revelations is that they respond to the gospel that's something that's the only way you know you're really got sheep is if you heard his voice when you heard the gospel and said yes that's the Lord I'm gonna follow him you know any repent it'll be the gospel so voiceless voice of God has stapled and now we're going to look at one that's current that I think is the most serious of all of these the most serious and dangerous this one is ratcheting up a few notches okay the techniques now are getting more serious and the more the more powerful they are the more dangerous they are now let me say and then I want to keep making this caveat I'm not saying that these people were all just nasty kind of bad people that you wouldn't want to know in fact they're not and Greg Boyd I debated him a few years ago kakie amiss I was their second choice they wanted John Piper's but they got stuck with me but anyhow I debated Greg Boyd and I got to spend a couple hours with him an hour before the thing we were on the radio together with Todd Friel then people turn in questions the two of us were together sorting through questions and I can say that Greg Boyd is a very nice enthusiastic person he loves people he's passionate about what he believes and I don't think he's a quote bad person he sincerely believes what he believes but I do believe that what he is is deceived okay and I think I can show that to you so people that really I'll tell you a beam of discernment that never works trying to discern who's a nicer person if you know what I mean you know the Dalai Lama is probably really nice but what would happen to you if you followed his teachings go to hell so being nice is not going to help us on a day of judgment now I'm not advocating being nasty or somebody says yeah you're just trying to justify the way you are no I I'm nice some days all right Greg Boyd now he has what he calls canif addict spirituality and that canif attic has to do with icons or images be they literal ones or mental ones catyph attic is using images in order to get in touch with a spiritual realm and so this is catyph attic spirituality and here's what he says about it Greg Boyd seeing his bleem now this is current this is a fellow who's a pastor over Woodbury he says this while there have been those such as john calvin who have mistrusted are rejected altogether the legitimacy of mentally mentally picturing God or Jesus in prayer or worship there is a long-standing tradition which is called the katha fatik tradition which has insisted on his appropriateness in spiritual value now this is very similar to the emerging church that I'm going to talk about later this afternoon and what is going on and I'm not saying Greg Boyd is exactly emergent Church because he isn't he's someone who's the difference he's he is his own self he defines his own doctrines and he's willing to go blazed trails on his own a very very brilliant guy but the idea that's coming into the church through emergent and through here through Boyd is that if somebody did something back in 500 or 600 or 700 or 1200 AD under the guise of the church therefore it's fair game we can use anything we find let's go back into the monasteries the Middle Ages and anything they do that may be what we need and so if you can find it in church history it's good enough to use now obviously that is a departure from the idea of the authority of Scripture okay church tradition is not authoritative at least as far as the Reformation that's why I mentioned Calvin they're all the reformers rejected church tradition as being binding or valid and so because some people practice certain ascetic practices doesn't mean there's a valid practice for us now here are the steps that he outlines to do cata Phatak prayer now let me tell you where this is going and it already steps whereas going is that this the image he's going to have is going to be of Jesus himself and Jesus is going to be seen and experienced with also all of his senses and Jesus is going to come alive and talk to great directly that's what's gonna happen here's what it says here sitting in the lotus position where did we hear that before Kelsey where did he get it from the east sitting in a lotus position or on a chair darken the room and use candles create an inner sanctuary using one's imagination you create a place that involves five senses now Greg's case he describes it graphically there was a place he could remember where there was an opening in the woods where the Sun would come through early in the morning and it was an idyllic pastoral setting and he would get into this darkened room with the key animals in the lowest position and pretty soon his mind is at this opening out there in the pasture where the woods or wherever it was okay so you you're putting yourself in another place let me let me give you a quick illustration here one of our members in the 80s was burned over 90% of his body and nearly died and he was in he was in pain so a pain was so bad for three months to this day he can't even remember those three months that's the Lord's providential way of just blocking it out and he was one of the stories I loved back in those days and we used to visit him with somebody them came into his room who was an expert in altered states of consciousness and told him his name was Jeff that he could teach him to go anywhere else he wants to be in other words instead of being here in this hospital bed and horrible pain I can teach you to be on a beach in Hawaii and it'll be real to you and you'll be there instead of here at least in your mind and Jeff said no this is the world this is where God put me this is where I'm gonna stay god bless him honoring God is more important to him than escaping pain that's why our true Christian looks like by the way we're not willing to sacrifice our spiritual well-being to escape pain and this is what boy is doing he's trying to escape mental pain so the inner sanctuary does a place where you go and you meet God it says them page 110 or 111 or the book seeing is believing you know what's wrong with that title by the way you remember Hebrews 11:1 for this morning it's just the opposite we believe in the innocence of Peter we believe in whom we haven't seen I should see it seeing is deceiving I'd be a better title and then when I am focused I sit up and I see Jesus walking out of the forest into the warm oval light and come up to me he always has a peaceful countenance and loving smile for he's always happy to spend time with me page 111 he cites richard Foster who we've been seeing here to a lot of today through imaginative meditation Foster writes quote you can actually encounter the Living Christ be addressed by his voice and be touched by his healing power it can be more than an exercise of the imagination it can be a genuine confrontation Jesus Christ will actually come to you I'm quote boy citing foster all right now what happened to the book of Hebrews where I said that Jesus is seated at the right hand of the Father okay what happened to the fact that Jesus has a body and it still has the marks of Calvary and he's not a spirit being that shows up in people's subconscious mind but foster says this is the real Jesus now the problem is you can't know that how do you know that's the real Jesus well listen let's see what happens page 117 I'll I'm I'm kind of can only take snippets out of this because there's not enough time to cover a whole chapter of the book but he says this during a time of resting with the Lord he that is Jesus himself told that I was ready to experience more freedom by working through a lie so we together left the opening in the forests where we were and went back thirty years to this forgotten the event so now not only is he traveling in space to a forest while he's actually still in his own room he's traveling in time we're going back in time page 117 as the event unfolded during this time of resting in Christ that's what he calls this process Jesus was and I watched as my grandmother gave my a nice doll to my older sister and then she stopped my nine-year-old sister has grandma doesn't Greggy get a present no Greg he's a bad boy and bad boys don't get presents now this was the painful memory that pastor Boyd was seeking relief from let me say something bout that as well I understand that we all have memories of things that weren't good because we live in a sinful world but I've made this claim when I wrote this article about inner healing a few years ago memories are not sick or healthy they just are memories or is God created us in His image and we're able to remember that we can remember is a gift from God one that diminishes with age I know you've done it too you gone right out to the garage it stood there son okay I came out here for some reason I don't know why I'm out here all right now fact is if we were to erase every memory of something that we thought was negative it would harm us as human beings for example let's say you erase the memory of having ever put your hand in the fire and in a feel in the burning sensation well that's how you learn not put your hand in the fire okay and so the fact is that if somebody says well I my problem is I had terrible parents and I had these memories like this my grandmother he was raised by his grandmother and she was abusive I had these terrible memories but but the fact is now you have learned how not to be you've learned how not to raise your children and you've learned how not to treat other human beings Dickens wrote a novel in which there was a guy who wanted his bad memories erased and of course in Dickens the ghost comes and does it for him and it turned out to be a horrible thing he became a mean nasty person because he had no empathy for anybody else being hurt because he couldn't remember what it feels like to be hurt so memories r6r therefore they don't need to be healed what we need is to be transformed by the renewing of our minds we need to have a thinking biblically forgive other people and go forward our past cannot change because there's no actual time travel not in a normal state of consciousness okay so he's always having the bad memory brought up by Jesus talking to the deceased grandmother with Jesus's help here's what he says my words were angry but very beautiful and very liberating that's not true I said I'm not a bad boy I'm now Jesus says so you're a bad grandma for doing this to me the old boy actually the adult who had part of him trapped in that little boy was regaining a stolen part of his personhood the worth an inherent loveliness of my soul was being restored so he gets recovery through the process 1:21 I saw my grandmother come in and tell us children she had presents for us but this time instead of seeing angry wrinkled face of my grandmother I saw the radiant joyful face of Jesus I heard Jesus exclaim oh of course great he gets the present he's such a good boy now yeah there's a Fiat is there a theological problem with that we're not good there's none good no not one all right page 125 I'm skipping ahead a little bit and we're gonna ask some questions about this in our pod or some ideas boy speaking to the dead grandmother quoting it's okay now grandma Jesus sticks to her she replied he fixed it for me too and with this hugging his grandma Jesus came over and hugged the two of us and she and Jesus joined hands and I watched him walk off we need to pray that God would help people find their way out of this because this is really bondage it really is bondage here are some questions can we trust recovered memories the answer is we'll no you cannot and there have been lawsuits about recovered memories through various therapists and and I have heard from many people many who after I wrote an article about the apostate which is another version of doing the same thing it's just a different way I've had people call me whose families were destroyed because of false recovered memories people whose daughter remember being sexually abused who never won't and was sexually abused and it could be proven there was a lawsuit in Florida where a man actually won the suit because it was proven that what the daughter what the recovered memory claimed happened could never have happened and he had proof of it so we can't trust recovered memories - we can we find valid psychological theory from guided imagery recovery of the inner child imagined self I didn't see there's all sorts of things being taught by the experience and this inner child is yeah I know that somebody's theory John Bradshaw is famous for that in his estimation we're our own saviors because the inner child is the Christ the inner child was exiled because of bad experiences we had and we had to put out for a facade out here to satisfy the people around us and then we become some person that's not the same real person that the pristine little child would have been had he not have to go into exile and in the same way that Jesus was exiled to Egypt and came back our our Christ our own little child went in exile and we got to go as the adults get therapy to bring him back and he's gonna save us that's John Bradshaw I was talking to a guy who was an expert in Jungian psychology at that think-tank I was at and I said I just went through that spiel I just did and he says yep that's John Bradshaw we're our own Savior his book was being used at the seminary to teach therapy New Age it's all new-age know the inner child if there even is such a thing which you can't prove the inner child is a sinner too we don't come into the world pristine we come in here sinful so so we're not only getting psychological theory from guided imagery we're getting theology from guided imagery and bad theology at that talking to the dead necromancy is forbidden we read about that in in Deuteronomy what their real Jesus help us communicate with the dead now it seems so obvious of what is happening what is happening to our evangelical movement what is happening to people in churches what is happening to things that just are so obviously not right are coming right into the church and they're being accepted and embraced and extolled and paid for and multiplied throughout our movement we're seeing massive deception and delusion and I agree with my dear friend Jan Markell the only explanation is the end times delusion what Paul said doesn't this memory suggest that the grandmother who was not a Christian filed redemption after her death is that a problem is there after we died we have another chance no after we'd go to judgment look what it says in the Bible secret things belong to the Lord our God but the things reveal belong to us and our sons forever that we may observe all the words of the law God is going to keep the secret things in his domain even suppose has forgotten memories or what have you they're secret if we can't remember them we don't need to know them what's going on in the spirit world a secret of God hasn't revealed it and so Christian mystics one and all gain secret information if they were told you cannot have any more secret information period and you will get no more secret information they would stop their practice they're not doing it to lower their blood pressure they're doing it to hear God's voice hereis 4:16 let us therefore draw near to with confidence to the throne of grace that we might find mercy receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need right where I pointed us in the first hour he was 7:25 hence also he's able to save forever those who draw near to God through him since he always lives to make intercession for them here's your son important point keep this in mind it's not important to feel close to God it's important to be close to God all right you can be close to God and not feel it and you can be alienated from God and bound to hell and feel close to God there's a lot of people that are unsaved to tell you they feel very close to God through their New Age practices so that's not even a legitimate issue we don't need to devise a means to help people feel close to God they need to believe that Jesus is seated at the right hand of the Father that there is a throne of grace that he really hears nothing really knows us and that we could draw near to him that's all we need to know so all we need to know and he'll save those who draw near to God through him he's going to save to the uttermost actually in that case the King James is a good translation because because I don't think you know that the word there it's probably not a descriptive up time but of extent so the King James says saved to the uttermost as much as we can be saved he's going to save us there's no greater saving than this saved to the uttermost through those who draw near to God through Jesus why because he always lives to making intercession for us do you think Jesus is a good intercessor do you think he's the best intercessor so why do you need contemporary prayer you don't Hebrews 10:19 21 22 this is our final slide therefore brethren since we have confidence to enter the holy place by the blood of Jesus and since we have a great priest over the house of God let us draw near with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith having our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water if if you know Jesus as your Lord and Savior and his blood has washed away all your sins it doesn't matter what happened when you were 5 years old or 10 years old or 20 years old you are on your way to heaven it's not where you been it's where you're going amen and you know the worst thing that ever happened to us was our own sin against God that was worse than anything anybody could ever do to us because whatever somebody did to us it was one sinner doing something to another sinner but my sin against God was a miserable rebellious creature offending the holiest one in the universe and that is a huge gap and that's a huge problem and when the blood of Jesus washes away our sin we draw near to God and then all this other stuff we don't need it we don't need it but yeah there's a reason why the New Agers are doing what they what they do I told somebody this the other day what mysticism is is a spiritual experience for the unsaved yeah because see if you're not converted you don't have the Holy Spirit and see old-fashioned liberalism that I learned when I was a child didn't have any spirituality they just had ritual and good works and there never was no spirituality at all we weren't any different than anybody else in town because we went to church okay then when I was born again in 1971 I was in twelve by the Holy Spirit and now I have God in dwelling me and I'm walking in the spirit and it's real okay because God's changing my life and I can see for the fruit of that now what if you're not saved and you long for spirituality well this is yet I said the mysticism of spirituality for liberals and so instead of just having a dry old dead church where you can hear about doctrine maybe for social action I should say doctrine is a good thing you just have this old servus and you have the social gospel now you could have a prayer labyrinth right in the sanctuary and you can walk there and get a sense of spirituality and you don't even have to be converted I think that's a pretty accurate description I really do I think that's why people long for because liberalism left them with nothing and so now they have the New Age because the problem of what we're offering is he have to repent and believe the gospel and you have to believe the terms of the Covenant and submit yourself to the moral law of God not to be saved but that's what will happen after you're saved amen a afternoon we'll look at apostles and prophets

Channel: Critical Issues Commentary

Views: 4,502

Rating: 4.757576 out of 5

Keywords: Bob DeWaay, CIC, Critical Issues Commentary, How Do We Really Hear God Speak Conference, NAR heresy, Latter Rain, New Apostolic Reformation

Id: lkOML6sppb8

Length: 67min 7sec (4027 seconds)

Published: Thu Oct 13 2016